Savage Love Podcast
Check out the all new Savage Lovecast site!
Got a question for Dan Savage?
Call the Savage Love Podcast at 206-201-2720
or email Dan at mail@savagelove.net.
Savage Love Archives
-
May 8
Reading Comprehension Fail -
May 1
Move On -
Apr 24
No Problem -
Apr 17
Dick Holes -
Apr 10
A First
More from Dan Savage
-
Slog Overnight
-
SL Letter of the Day: Gonna Boil My Laptop After Answering This One
-
Azerbaijan's Contribution to Eurovision
-
New Gun Enthusiast...
-
Meanwhile in Toronto
Books by Dan Savage
American Savage
It Gets Better: Coming Out, Overcoming Bullying, and Creating a Life Worth Living
The Commitment: Love, Sex, Marriage, and My Family
Things I've Learned from Women Who've Dumped Me
Skipping Towards Gomorrah
The Kid: What Happened After My Boyfriend and I Decided to Go Get Pregnant
Savage Links
- Babeland
- Fleshbot
- Good Vibrations
- Joe Newton/Savage Illustrations
- Planned Parenthood
- Spreading Santorum
- Planned Parenthood's Teen Wire
- Kinsey Confidential
- Carnal Nation
- Tiny Nibbles
Want a Second Opinion?
Contact Dan Savage
Savage on YouTube
Loading...
Make It Better
October 7, 2010
+ Enlarge this Image
Joe Newton
My husband has a cuckold fetish, which we have indulged through two drunken threesomes with two of his best friends. The first time, he really had to talk me into it. The second time, he steered me in that direction and I took the wheel. I now have had sex alone with Friend Two a few times. My husband was okay with it at first, but now he wants it to stop. I like the control he gave me, and now I don't want to be told no. He opened the door, and I don't want to close it. What do I do?
Not Ready To Stop
You close the damn door and you let your husband see that it's closed. You tell him that you'd rather the door were still open, NRTS, but you assure him that it's closed for now and will remain closed until he's ready to open it again.
That's pretty much the only way you can have your husband and, at some point down the road, "the control he gave you" too, i.e., his consent to fuck around with other men. Then you'll be able to open the door to a threesome again, this time without a booze assist. Although it might take him longer to get comfortable with the idea of you seeing other guys alone, which seems to have triggered the wrong kind of anxiety, i.e., anxiety of the non-boner-inducing variety, which is not what emotionally safe and sane cuckolding is all about.
Trust me, NRTS: Your husband is still into cuckolding. That's not a kink that evaporates after one or two drunken threesomes. He's probably just a little spooked by how quickly you progressed from having to be talked into it to having to be talked out of it. A time-out will give him a chance to see—and give you a chance to demonstrate—that he is still your first priority, emotionally and sexually.
Which he still is, right?
I am a 23-year-old lesbian with a beautiful girlfriend whom I met a month ago. Here's the problem: She screams so loudly throughout sex that I am concerned for my roommate and other people who live in our building, as well as the entire neighborhood. I would know how to handle this situation if she were completely mute during sex—draw her out, make it into a game, etc.—but I'm scared of telling her she's too loud, because I don't want to hamper her enjoyment. I even tried to make this into a role-play game where we would pretend we needed to be silent for some reason, but nothing makes a difference.
How can I approach this without making her self-conscious?
Lesbian Over Ungodly Din
You don't want to make her self-conscious, and that's a lovely impulse, but she's making you self-conscious, LOUD, and you're just going to have to risk making her self-conscious. Because we're not talking about a few loud yelps or screams at the climax(es) of the act(s), which is something a roommate or a neighbor can reasonably be expected to endure, but caterwauling throughout. That's not okay. Tell the new girlfriend that the yelling wouldn't be a problem if you lived on 200 acres of land, but you live in an apartment building, in the city, and you have a roommate and neighbors.
Under those circumstances, you have a right to ask her to stifle herself. And if she reacts badly, or if she sulks like a child, then she's obviously not mature enough to waste your valuable time (and tongue) on.
How come when I look up the history of the T-shirt on Wikipedia, there's a picture of you? Are you aware of this?
Jewdizzle
I invented the T-shirt, and every time one is sold—even one with rapper 50 Cent on it—I get a royalty check. That's why I don't have to have a real job and can devote my time to answering questions from cuckolds' wives, lesbians, and people interested enough in the history of the T-shirt to read the Wikipedia entry about it.
I want to thank you for the It Gets Better Project. My son is 14 and a sophomore in high school in rural Kentucky. He isn't athletic. He isn't religious. He isn't in ROTC. He is constantly being called "gay" or "faggot," oftentimes by the people he thought were his friends. He tries to ignore them, but it doesn't stop them. He tries to debate them, but it doesn't stop them. So far, it hasn't gone beyond name-calling, but I worry. I showed him your site the day it went live. He sat down and watched the video that you and Terry put up. Since then, I have seen him checking the site out on his own. I don't know if he is gay, but I do know that your message has touched him. Although he does confide that four years is still a long time to wait for things to get better. I think that seeing so many other people say the same thing holds much more weight than having his mother tell him. So thank you again for sharing.
A Concerned Mom
In the last two weeks, we've learned of five more teenagers who were being bullied and took their own lives: Cody Barker, age 17, of Shiocton, Wisconsin; Asher Brown, age 13, of Houston, Texas; Seth Walsh, age 13, of Tehachapi, California; Tyler Clementi, age 18, the Rutgers University student who jumped off the George Washington Bridge; and Raymond Chase, age 19, a student in Providence, Rhode Island. Their deaths come after the suicides of Justin Aaberg, age 15, of Anoka, Minnesota, and Billy Lucas, age 15, of Greensburg, Indiana.
Hundreds of LGBT people all over the world have uploaded videos to the It Gets Better Project's YouTube channel in an effort to bring hope to kids who are being bullied because they are gay or perceived to be gay. People are sharing their stories and letting these kids know that it gets better. By the time you read this, the videos at the IGBP will have been viewed, collectively, more than a million times. Go to www.itgetsbetterproject.com to see the videos or to upload one of your own.
Four years is a long time to wait, ACM, and what about making things better right now? Gay, lesbian, bi, and trans activists, inspired by the IGBP, have launched the Make It Better Project. Events are planned for all over the country between now and October 11, which is National Coming Out Day, to raise awareness of the problem and to push for legislative action now, like the immediate passage of the Safe Schools Improvement Act and the Student Non-Discrimination Act. You can learn more about events in your community—and how you can help to make it better now—at www.makeitbetterproject.com.
Share via
1
I'm thinking NRTS's husband might have been turned on by the control aspect as much as, or maybe even more than, the cuckolding aspect. Because when he "made" her do it by getting her drunk and convincing her to fuck another guy, he thought it was hot. But when she went and fucked another guy of her own volition, he was no longer pleased. NRTS went from a submissive fuck toy to an autonomous slut (and I mean this in the most sex-positive way--nothing wrong with being a slut or a sex toy) and suddenly he was not pleased by having her fuck other men.
3
I've been in the same situation as NRTS (although I wasn't drunk for the first threesome). We resolved my husband's discomfort by video taping some of our solo sessions for him to watch later. That way he felt like he was in some way a part of what went on, and he got a thrill out of it, too. He even made suggestions of what he wanted to see on the next tape. Of course that involves the risk of someone seeing the tape, but we've managed to keep things under wraps for over a year and a half, so it can be done.
4
Keep up the good work! The It Gets Better Project is something that is sorely needed in this country (which claims to be tolerant but obviously isn't)
5
For ACM, I think your post called "Email" (http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…) should be required reading and listening (to the radio link) for all straight parents out there, especially ones who think their kids "might" be gay. Since ACM says she doesn't know if her son is gay, that suggests she hasn't talked to him about it directly, and as the person discovered in the "Email" post, assuming your kid will come to you can be a mistake. Just like kids need to hear "I love you" on a regular basis, they also need to hear you'll love and support them no matter what, including whatever their sexual orientation is. ACM should tell her son this tonight, and see if there are any magnet schools that he could attend for high school.
6
An excerpt from an interview with Malcolm Gladwell, author or The Tipping Point. In the book he states that when people read about, for example, a suicide, it almost gives them a sort of "permission" to act. Anyway, interesting read.
One of the things I explore in the book is that ideas can be contagious in exactly the same way that a virus is. One chapter, for example, deals with the very strange epidemic of teenage suicide in the South Pacific islands of Micronesia. In the 1970's and 1980's, Micronesia had teen suicide rates ten times higher than anywhere else in the world. Teenagers were literally being infected with the suicide bug, and one after another they were killing themselves in exactly the same way under exactly the same circumstances. We like to use words like contagiousness and infectiousness just to apply to the medical realm. But I assure you that after you read about what happened in Micronesia you'll be convinced that behavior can be transmitted from one person to another as easily as the flu or the measles can. In fact, I don't think you have to go to Micronesia to see this pattern in action. Isn't this the explanation for the current epidemic of teen smoking in this country?
One of the things I explore in the book is that ideas can be contagious in exactly the same way that a virus is. One chapter, for example, deals with the very strange epidemic of teenage suicide in the South Pacific islands of Micronesia. In the 1970's and 1980's, Micronesia had teen suicide rates ten times higher than anywhere else in the world. Teenagers were literally being infected with the suicide bug, and one after another they were killing themselves in exactly the same way under exactly the same circumstances. We like to use words like contagiousness and infectiousness just to apply to the medical realm. But I assure you that after you read about what happened in Micronesia you'll be convinced that behavior can be transmitted from one person to another as easily as the flu or the measles can. In fact, I don't think you have to go to Micronesia to see this pattern in action. Isn't this the explanation for the current epidemic of teen smoking in this country?
7
I've been in the same situation as NRTS and we dealt with my husband's discomfort by giving him video tapes of some of our solo sessions. That way he felt like he was still a part of what went on and he got a thrill out of it later. He also suggested things he wanted to see on the next tape. Of course that means risking someone else seeing the video, but we've kept it under wraps for a year and a half, so it can be done.
10
Re NRTS - I find it helpful (and fun!) to fuck my husband each and every time I come home from fucking someone else. Often, I fuck him before I head out the door, too. Basically, we're doing it at least once a day, plus whatever happens with the other guys.
If you were only having sex once a week before all this started, and now the other guy is getting that sex, and your husband has to wait weeks for his turn -- well, he's going to be pissed off about that, understandably.
If you were only having sex once a week before all this started, and now the other guy is getting that sex, and your husband has to wait weeks for his turn -- well, he's going to be pissed off about that, understandably.
11
Also, NRTS, if you really like sex with other guys, try talking about it in bed with your husband. If he's hard when he thinks about it, that will help reinforce the idea that he likes this.
Try bringing him along too. With his penis in your vagina, he'll appreciate more the idea that some other guy's penis is in your mouth. (Or vice versa, you get the idea.)
Try bringing him along too. With his penis in your vagina, he'll appreciate more the idea that some other guy's penis is in your mouth. (Or vice versa, you get the idea.)
12
Apropos of absolutely nothing in this week's column: Don't forget, everyone, there's still plenty of time to jack or jill off to Christine O'Donnell before the general election. In support of this worthy cause, I have created a little bit of fan fiction, which I hope will put some lead in your pencil or cream in your jeans! Please read at http://shutyoureverlovingpiehole.wordpre… and leave a comment telling me how you liked it. This is not my first attempt at erotica, but it is the first piece I've shared with the interwebs. I hope you have as much fun reading it as I did writing it!
13
@6- Except gay teens offing themselves has been going on consistently at this rate for decades. It only *looks* like a copy-cat epidemic because someone's FINALLY noticing, been able to publicize it and did something about it.
Thanks, Dan.
Thanks, Dan.
14
Longtime reader & fan of Savage Love, but have never posted until now.
I'm straight, I fit into the mold of a typical woman, and I've never experienced bullying - but the "It Gets Better" project brought tears to my eyes. It's absolutely beautiful to see people from all over the world getting together to send messages of hope.
I read a lot of things in the news that cause me to lose a little faith in humanity, and things like this project restore it. Wonderful, wonderful idea, I truly believe it will change the lives of some people.
I'm straight, I fit into the mold of a typical woman, and I've never experienced bullying - but the "It Gets Better" project brought tears to my eyes. It's absolutely beautiful to see people from all over the world getting together to send messages of hope.
I read a lot of things in the news that cause me to lose a little faith in humanity, and things like this project restore it. Wonderful, wonderful idea, I truly believe it will change the lives of some people.
15
Dan it is time to take the It Gets Better project to the people who can make it better: the Principals of the US high schools. This is the website for the National Assocation of Secondary Schools Principals.
http://www.principals.org/
It is time for principals to face the question of why is high school SUCH a miserable experience for so many people, especially but not only gay teens.
Have at it and good luck.
http://www.principals.org/
It is time for principals to face the question of why is high school SUCH a miserable experience for so many people, especially but not only gay teens.
Have at it and good luck.
16
And on a lighter note... Damned if it ain't Dan as "Man Wearing T-shirt" on the Wikipedia page. Funny, but too anonymous...
17
@12 Masturbating to the image of someone you find contemptible/fear/hate... How does that work? I don't find this sex-positive behavior at all. The mere thought of it makes me limp, in fact.
I actually wonder if such a campaign does nothing other than further O'Donnell's own anti-masturbation agenda? I just hope I'm wrong and it doesn't result in any permanent sexual dysfunction, frigidity, and/or anorgasmia.
Now excuse me while I pick a random DVD out of my porn collection...
I actually wonder if such a campaign does nothing other than further O'Donnell's own anti-masturbation agenda? I just hope I'm wrong and it doesn't result in any permanent sexual dysfunction, frigidity, and/or anorgasmia.
Now excuse me while I pick a random DVD out of my porn collection...
18
On a lighter note.... Damned if that ain't Dan as "Man Wearing T-shirt." on Wikipedia. Cute, but too anonymous....
20
I think Dan might be giving "Not Ready To Stop" too much credit, when he seems to assume that her husband is still her top priority.
Seems to me like her top priority is her own enjoyment.
Seems to me like her top priority is her own enjoyment.
21
I had seen your picture on that T-shirt wiki entry before and laughed!
Great column, Man in T-shirt!
@15 I think you might be onto something. In light of recent events, I kept wondering how I lucked out so much in high school. It wasn't perfect, but I'm floored when I recall how diverse and accepting it was - and this was in NORTH TEXAS. (I was one of the quiet, invisible kids, though, so I'm sure I was oblivious to some of the hostility.) You reminded me, though, that my school had an amazing principal. He really did put a lot of effort into helping students have a good experience. One of my friends started a GSA club our junior year, and the principal sat in on the first meeting to show his support. He was what a principal should be, and I agree that those absentee principles need to step up or get out.
Great column, Man in T-shirt!
@15 I think you might be onto something. In light of recent events, I kept wondering how I lucked out so much in high school. It wasn't perfect, but I'm floored when I recall how diverse and accepting it was - and this was in NORTH TEXAS. (I was one of the quiet, invisible kids, though, so I'm sure I was oblivious to some of the hostility.) You reminded me, though, that my school had an amazing principal. He really did put a lot of effort into helping students have a good experience. One of my friends started a GSA club our junior year, and the principal sat in on the first meeting to show his support. He was what a principal should be, and I agree that those absentee principles need to step up or get out.
22
@NRTS: Let me restate your thesis, only finishing the sentence with the part you left off:
"He opened the door, and I don't want to close it EVEN THOUGH WHAT I'M DOING NOW MAKES HIM UNHAPPY"
Did you spot the problem?
"He opened the door, and I don't want to close it EVEN THOUGH WHAT I'M DOING NOW MAKES HIM UNHAPPY"
Did you spot the problem?
23
#11: "try talking about it in bed with your husband. If he's hard when he thinks about it, that will help reinforce the idea that he likes this. "
Or it might kill his boner completely, ruining what sex life the two of them do still have, and give him the idea that even when she is with him, her mind and heart are straining towards the idea of fucking the other guy. Not something that a guy who is feeling insecure about his place in his wife's heart is going to want to hear.
Personally, I'm not convinced he has a genuine cuckold fetish. I think maybe some person or some fiction persuaded him it would be hot, but he discovered the reality didn't match the fantasy -- particularly the part where he figures out that his wife is into sex with other men more than she is into sex with him FOR REAL.
The first time, he was totally into the idea, and she had to be talked into it. The second time, it seems from the description that he was somewhat less thrilled about the idea but she took it and ran with it. That may well have been alarming to him right there, but it went even farther. Both the first and second times, he was at least present and a participant. (Threesomes ain't cuckolding.) The third time, and the times after that, he wasn't even a factor. It isn't an easy thing, being incrementally ejected from your spouse's sexual interest. It isn't about about indulging his fantasy any more, and you aren't being the GGG wife, NRTS. At this point, you are sleeping around because you want to, and how he feels about it be damned.
I see a set of divorce papers fluttering their way towards your kitchen table, unless you figure out how to once again make him your first priority -- which your letter pretty clearly demonstrates is NOT the case at the moment -- and you figure out how to enjoy lavishing your sexual energy strictly on him again, just like you used to before that door was opened. (You did lavish sexual energy on him before, right?)
That, and be prepared to possibly have that door stay closed for good, and have that be okay. I disagree with Dan about telling him that you would prefer that door stays open. Even if you never act on it again, and honor that commitment, it is going to feel as if you WANT the other guy more than you want him. He is not going to feel secure about it, or about you. Continue to pull on that leash, and he may well sever it.
More...
Or it might kill his boner completely, ruining what sex life the two of them do still have, and give him the idea that even when she is with him, her mind and heart are straining towards the idea of fucking the other guy. Not something that a guy who is feeling insecure about his place in his wife's heart is going to want to hear.
Personally, I'm not convinced he has a genuine cuckold fetish. I think maybe some person or some fiction persuaded him it would be hot, but he discovered the reality didn't match the fantasy -- particularly the part where he figures out that his wife is into sex with other men more than she is into sex with him FOR REAL.
The first time, he was totally into the idea, and she had to be talked into it. The second time, it seems from the description that he was somewhat less thrilled about the idea but she took it and ran with it. That may well have been alarming to him right there, but it went even farther. Both the first and second times, he was at least present and a participant. (Threesomes ain't cuckolding.) The third time, and the times after that, he wasn't even a factor. It isn't an easy thing, being incrementally ejected from your spouse's sexual interest. It isn't about about indulging his fantasy any more, and you aren't being the GGG wife, NRTS. At this point, you are sleeping around because you want to, and how he feels about it be damned.
I see a set of divorce papers fluttering their way towards your kitchen table, unless you figure out how to once again make him your first priority -- which your letter pretty clearly demonstrates is NOT the case at the moment -- and you figure out how to enjoy lavishing your sexual energy strictly on him again, just like you used to before that door was opened. (You did lavish sexual energy on him before, right?)
That, and be prepared to possibly have that door stay closed for good, and have that be okay. I disagree with Dan about telling him that you would prefer that door stays open. Even if you never act on it again, and honor that commitment, it is going to feel as if you WANT the other guy more than you want him. He is not going to feel secure about it, or about you. Continue to pull on that leash, and he may well sever it.
24
I think it's a real sign of progress that we can now list the suicides. When I was coming up then coming out, we just had a statistic (as high as 1 in 5 attempting suicide). It does get better. And it's a great project that's been a long time coming. One suicide is one too many, but I think it's worth saying, not only will it get better, but it already has... to a point. Not there yet by far, but I think it's great we're finally ready to fight this.
25
I completely agree with _1_ and his opinion on NRTS. There is a huge difference between making your partner to have sex with other man- what means that you are in control, and the partner is having sex for you (and in your presence, or records it for you) and the situation NRTS is describing- what is actually cheating on her husband. The question is if the first case is still cuckolding, and if not- if it has a special name :)
26
@13: while it's been going on for years, it hasn't been so widely publicized, has it? The more completed suicides are publicized and talked about, the more depressed and bullied teens might think suicide is an option. That's why there are often "copy-cat" responses to school shootings, for example.
I hope the next teen who is bullied--for whatever reason--and who is contemplating suicide finds "it gets better". Dan, this project is beautiful.
I hope the next teen who is bullied--for whatever reason--and who is contemplating suicide finds "it gets better". Dan, this project is beautiful.
27
@Brooklyn Reader (17): Fair enough. I know that's what some people will think. However, even though they may not find the subject herself jackworthy, they may find some gratification in the anal rape scene or the forced piercing scene. I tried to work in a little something for everyone. :)
29
Is Dan on vacation this week? (It is his birthday after all) - I ask because the response to NRTS seems much more mature and sensible than he usually gives. I expected him to say something like "continue to fuck your husband's friend, but take steps to keep your husband from finding out; this will satisfy everyone, including the cuckold."
30
I've got a son who may or may not be gay - he's fifteen and has not committed himself, which is fine to me - let him have the time to figure out what he feels and who he feels it for.
However, he also has some special needs and is very geeky, and he has been in some schools relentlessly bullied.
There's been little effective help from the schools.
My plan from here on in is that bullying will be treated as the crime it is - restraining orders and charges as appropriate. These kids are committing crimes - harassment and assault, and if the parents and the schools will not end the problem, I must find a way to protect my son.
I wanted to say that though your series focuses specifically on LGBT kids, it's true for any bullied child - it DOES get better. My son appreciates the message, regardless of his sexual orientation.
He does have two gay uncles whom he refers to as his Super Uncles, after the theory of gay super uncles. :) And they also tell him it get better - you can leave high school and never look back once you're done with it.
Thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for the new link today. Thank you for helping all the parents who feel so helpless have another way to help.
However, he also has some special needs and is very geeky, and he has been in some schools relentlessly bullied.
There's been little effective help from the schools.
My plan from here on in is that bullying will be treated as the crime it is - restraining orders and charges as appropriate. These kids are committing crimes - harassment and assault, and if the parents and the schools will not end the problem, I must find a way to protect my son.
I wanted to say that though your series focuses specifically on LGBT kids, it's true for any bullied child - it DOES get better. My son appreciates the message, regardless of his sexual orientation.
He does have two gay uncles whom he refers to as his Super Uncles, after the theory of gay super uncles. :) And they also tell him it get better - you can leave high school and never look back once you're done with it.
Thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for the new link today. Thank you for helping all the parents who feel so helpless have another way to help.
31
I'd like to applaud all of the NRTS commenters today (at least so far) for their excellent contributions. Good advice on making it work, good perspective on the minefield of skirting the kink/infidelity borderline, and I was really taken by the theory in #1, and am able to relate directly. I am a man that suffered through a wife's infidelity, and without getting into the horrid details lets just say it hurt me very deeply. In the nauseating months after, when I would seek to escape for awhile by masturbating, images of my wife with the other man would inevitably creep into my mind. This would end my arousal. It became a problem. I found that as a workaround I could insert myself into that situation in a fantasy, and the idea of using my wife as a fucktoy with some other guy was bankable jerk material. I even got to work out some of the violent urges I had toward her due to my anger, letting these fantasy scenarios get into dark areas of humiliation and punishment. Because it's true - for at least some men (including me), and I suspect many men in the world, sexual arousal is tied at a very fundamental level to physical ownership, control, power, possession. And when that control is challenged, anxiety and anger and even violence can result.
32
I also got the feeling NRTS's hub may not be a true cuck; but rather more into double teaming his slut wife (which is super hot!). For cucks, it's about the humiliation of his wife getting fucked despite his "objections". Sounds like these aren't "objections"; they are actual objections. In other words, a true cuck would be into the losing control part. I think if she follows Dan's advice he'll be steering her in that direction soon enough.
Also, Erica P's comments (10 & 11) are SOFA KING HOT!
Also, Erica P's comments (10 & 11) are SOFA KING HOT!
33
"Because it's true - for at least some men (including me), and I suspect many men in the world, sexual arousal is tied at a very fundamental level to physical ownership, control, power, possession. And when that control is challenged, anxiety and anger and even violence can result."
If violence results from having your "physical possession" of your wife's body challenged, you're a domestic abuser, not someone with a cuckholding fetish.
If violence results from having your "physical possession" of your wife's body challenged, you're a domestic abuser, not someone with a cuckholding fetish.
35
Dan:
Thank you for It Gets Better. And thank you for printing ACM's letter today. I was a bookish, non-athletic, non-religious male high school student, and I, too, was called a "faggot." I was straight then - still am - I just wasn't the right kind of manly, I guess. And you're right as usual: it does get better. Today I have a wife I adore (and who is GGG to the max, BTW) who would never in a million years have married one of those troglodytes who used to make my life hell. To ACM: Unlike the boys from the football team, your son is learning important lessons about kindness and human dignity right now that will serve him well in the future. He will find someone who will love him and respect him; his tormentors will largely get what they deserve.
Thank you for It Gets Better. And thank you for printing ACM's letter today. I was a bookish, non-athletic, non-religious male high school student, and I, too, was called a "faggot." I was straight then - still am - I just wasn't the right kind of manly, I guess. And you're right as usual: it does get better. Today I have a wife I adore (and who is GGG to the max, BTW) who would never in a million years have married one of those troglodytes who used to make my life hell. To ACM: Unlike the boys from the football team, your son is learning important lessons about kindness and human dignity right now that will serve him well in the future. He will find someone who will love him and respect him; his tormentors will largely get what they deserve.
36
NTRS: Your husband offered you the privilege to fuck with other guys. Now, HE has the right to take away that privilege. He opened the door for you, now you must close it. However, if you don't want to, there's something else at play here: Were you a closeted bitch and this experience showed you that? Do you now love someone else more than your husband? Are you taking some kind of revenge on him or someone else? Is he still your first priority? If not, sadly for him, you must get out of there.
37
Re NTS, I am getting a strong whiff of "I need to be free, Dan Savage! Free to fly like the graceful, loving, sexual bird that I am! Fly high on the wings of my sexual freedom and womanhood! Give me permission, Dan, to fuck other men, while my (now quite clueless) husband keeps helping me pay bills, clean the house, run the kids around, and do all the boring shit that would otherwise get in the way of me flying on the wings of my pretty, pretty sexual freedom and womanhood...which is now increasingly given to people other than my husband."
Dan is dead on. NTS, must stop fucking other men, if she wants to stay married.
If she doesn't want to stop fucking other men, she must either get a happy, smiling husband to agree to that, or she should divorce him.
But lady, don't lie (even by ommission) to him about not fucking other guys and don't badger him into acceptance of your desire to fuck other people; both of those actions makes you a cunt.
Yes, a cunt.
My guess is you will be a cunt about it, and this was an attempt at permission from the one person who might have given you permission.
Dan is dead on. NTS, must stop fucking other men, if she wants to stay married.
If she doesn't want to stop fucking other men, she must either get a happy, smiling husband to agree to that, or she should divorce him.
But lady, don't lie (even by ommission) to him about not fucking other guys and don't badger him into acceptance of your desire to fuck other people; both of those actions makes you a cunt.
Yes, a cunt.
My guess is you will be a cunt about it, and this was an attempt at permission from the one person who might have given you permission.
38
@36, 37: I knew it was only a matter of time before the name-calling started.
FWIW, I agree that the husband's kink might have been more about control than cuckolding, and that he may be insecure and feel threatened by how much his wife is enjoying fucking other men. And the letter sure sounded like a request for permission to keep doing what she wants to do even though she knows it makes her husband unhappy.
Lastly, the old phrase, "be careful what you wish for; you might just get it" comes to mind. They *have* walked through a door and what lay on the other side wasn't what either of them expected to find.
They'll need to work this out. Maybe they'll divorce because of it. But comments venting other people's anger on the letter writer, aren't particularly useful, enlightening, or entertaining.
FWIW, I agree that the husband's kink might have been more about control than cuckolding, and that he may be insecure and feel threatened by how much his wife is enjoying fucking other men. And the letter sure sounded like a request for permission to keep doing what she wants to do even though she knows it makes her husband unhappy.
Lastly, the old phrase, "be careful what you wish for; you might just get it" comes to mind. They *have* walked through a door and what lay on the other side wasn't what either of them expected to find.
They'll need to work this out. Maybe they'll divorce because of it. But comments venting other people's anger on the letter writer, aren't particularly useful, enlightening, or entertaining.
39
23 - He didn't seem too concerned about potentially killing her lady-boner by first bringing up the subject of cuckolding, did he?
I agree that NRTS should stop having sex with other men for the moment, but I don't see that she's obligated to coddle her husband's ego by pretending she'd never want to do so again. The fact that she enjoyed having sex with other men doesn't mean that she likes it *more* than she likes sex with her husband, or that she doesn't love him. Really, if he can't handle that truth then it was spectacularly unwise of him to try and talk his wife into cuckolding in the first place (also, the fact that he "really had to talk her into it" suggests that he's not all that sensitive when it comes to *her* feelings/ego).
I agree that NRTS should stop having sex with other men for the moment, but I don't see that she's obligated to coddle her husband's ego by pretending she'd never want to do so again. The fact that she enjoyed having sex with other men doesn't mean that she likes it *more* than she likes sex with her husband, or that she doesn't love him. Really, if he can't handle that truth then it was spectacularly unwise of him to try and talk his wife into cuckolding in the first place (also, the fact that he "really had to talk her into it" suggests that he's not all that sensitive when it comes to *her* feelings/ego).
40
36 - However, if you don't want to, there's something else at play here: Were you a closeted bitch and this experience showed you that? Do you now love someone else more than your husband? Are you taking some kind of revenge on him or someone else? Is he still your first priority? If not, sadly for him, you must get out of there.
Uh, you forgot the possibility that she just enjoys sexual variety. A lot of people do - and it is actually possible for a woman to have sex for reasons other than being a bitch, being in love, or wanting revenge.
Uh, you forgot the possibility that she just enjoys sexual variety. A lot of people do - and it is actually possible for a woman to have sex for reasons other than being a bitch, being in love, or wanting revenge.
41
NRTS's husband sounds like a fucking control freak.
He works hard at getting his wife to fuck other people - even gets her drunk to do it, and then changes his mind when he finds out she actually likes it?!? It's only ok if she DOESN'T like it?!
As 38 said, he did it to himself - he took her there. And now he wants to yank her back. Because of her acting on his desires, she's discovered hers. Why does their sex life have to involve only what he wants? Why is she the only one that has to be GGG and he get to control it all?
If the shoe was on the other foot and the guy was the one that wanted to fuck other people, people would be telling the woman to get over it, quit being selfish and insecure, and let him fuck other people. Time and time again that has been the message in this column. Now, the woman finds she has needs, and she's a CUNT?
Yup, the ol' double standard.
He works hard at getting his wife to fuck other people - even gets her drunk to do it, and then changes his mind when he finds out she actually likes it?!? It's only ok if she DOESN'T like it?!
As 38 said, he did it to himself - he took her there. And now he wants to yank her back. Because of her acting on his desires, she's discovered hers. Why does their sex life have to involve only what he wants? Why is she the only one that has to be GGG and he get to control it all?
If the shoe was on the other foot and the guy was the one that wanted to fuck other people, people would be telling the woman to get over it, quit being selfish and insecure, and let him fuck other people. Time and time again that has been the message in this column. Now, the woman finds she has needs, and she's a CUNT?
Yup, the ol' double standard.
42
@37:
He can badger her to fuck other people and that's ok, but if she then were to badger him to keep fucking other people, she's a cunt?
What a load of bullshit!!!
He can badger her to fuck other people and that's ok, but if she then were to badger him to keep fucking other people, she's a cunt?
What a load of bullshit!!!
43
YOU MADE ME CRY. Stop it. I am trying to work here. How can I pop over to SLOG if I'm just going to cry at sweet messages from concerned moms in Kentucky.
44
Congrats Dan! It Gets Better Project is in the Seattle Times. The word is spreading!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo…
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo…
45
@NRTS:
This seems rather simple, he wanted the two of you to try something new that he thought he would like, and after some prodding, you agreed. Whether this was cuckolding or threesomes really doesn't matter, he was present both times it happened, and was probably part of the attraction. You then went ahead and started screwing one of his friends without him, and understandably, he has a problem with it. I'm sure you have rationalized it that he started this, and that you are doing it for him, but you are being selfish by not including him. Now he has asked you to stop screwing his friend without him, and to be honest, he shouldn't have to ask. You went well beyond what he asked of you, and that is not GGG, you are cheating on him, and probably telling him it was his idea. The choice is simple, you choose your husband or the friend.
I approached my wife with a similar offer a few years ago, but with one stipulation, that I had to be there if anything happened with the third person, anything else would be considered cheating. She agreed, and to the best of my knowledge, she has never been with anyone else. But I know the thought that she could be with someone else with me watching is enough to get her motor purring sometimes...
This seems rather simple, he wanted the two of you to try something new that he thought he would like, and after some prodding, you agreed. Whether this was cuckolding or threesomes really doesn't matter, he was present both times it happened, and was probably part of the attraction. You then went ahead and started screwing one of his friends without him, and understandably, he has a problem with it. I'm sure you have rationalized it that he started this, and that you are doing it for him, but you are being selfish by not including him. Now he has asked you to stop screwing his friend without him, and to be honest, he shouldn't have to ask. You went well beyond what he asked of you, and that is not GGG, you are cheating on him, and probably telling him it was his idea. The choice is simple, you choose your husband or the friend.
I approached my wife with a similar offer a few years ago, but with one stipulation, that I had to be there if anything happened with the third person, anything else would be considered cheating. She agreed, and to the best of my knowledge, she has never been with anyone else. But I know the thought that she could be with someone else with me watching is enough to get her motor purring sometimes...
46
Applause to A Concerned Mom. At least her child has a caring, loving parent. WAYWAYWAY TO GO Mom!!!
47
Huh. Am I the only who who sees a difference between threesomes and your wife fucking a guy alone? "He was OK with it at first" sounds like he was startled by her initiative, decided to step back because he considered him a cuckold (and we're not even sure if this is a genuine cuckold?), but discovered he didn't like it.
Her letter is a little barebones. How is she treating this? Does she give off an aura of emotional distance? Is she treating sex with Friend 2 as something including her husband (psychologically, at least), or is it just "Off for sex, bye, honey, don't wait up"?
And what *exactly* about this is putting him off? He really needs to be clear about that. Has he realized he's not a genuine cuckold? Is this a control issue? Is it boundaries? Is he feeling left out of the loop (e.g. he never knows when you're having extra sex, so it's starting to feel ... "cheaty")? Is he feeling like the sex between the two of you has suffered?
Her letter is a little barebones. How is she treating this? Does she give off an aura of emotional distance? Is she treating sex with Friend 2 as something including her husband (psychologically, at least), or is it just "Off for sex, bye, honey, don't wait up"?
And what *exactly* about this is putting him off? He really needs to be clear about that. Has he realized he's not a genuine cuckold? Is this a control issue? Is it boundaries? Is he feeling left out of the loop (e.g. he never knows when you're having extra sex, so it's starting to feel ... "cheaty")? Is he feeling like the sex between the two of you has suffered?
48
38; 42:
Just to be clear, same advice to a guy pulling this shit:
"But [buddy], don't lie (even by ommission) to [her] about not fucking other [women] and don't badger [her] into acceptance of your desire to fuck other people; both of those actions makes you a [dick].
Yes, a [dick].
My guess is you will be a [dick] about it, and this was an attempt at permission from the one person who might have given you permission."
/eyeroll
Just to be clear, same advice to a guy pulling this shit:
"But [buddy], don't lie (even by ommission) to [her] about not fucking other [women] and don't badger [her] into acceptance of your desire to fuck other people; both of those actions makes you a [dick].
Yes, a [dick].
My guess is you will be a [dick] about it, and this was an attempt at permission from the one person who might have given you permission."
/eyeroll
49
It sounds to me like he asked her to do threesomes, not cuckolding. She probably resents that he pushed her into this, and is taking his disregard of her feelings out by trying to exercise similar disregard of his feelings with this sex with other guys alone thing, and trying to feel some power over him by doing it.
50
#5, it's also quite possible that the reason she's not sure if her son is gay is that, at 14, he's not sure himself, and she doesn't want to pressure him into defining himself before he's ready.
A lot of LGBT people know very, very early what their sexual identity is, and a lot aren't sure well into the teens or even twenties.
I have a thirteen year old, and I wouldn't expect that kind of self-awareness, especially in an area that is still relatively new at that age.
Cut mom some slack, I think she's communicating on the levels that count.
A lot of LGBT people know very, very early what their sexual identity is, and a lot aren't sure well into the teens or even twenties.
I have a thirteen year old, and I wouldn't expect that kind of self-awareness, especially in an area that is still relatively new at that age.
Cut mom some slack, I think she's communicating on the levels that count.
51
I'm not seeing evidence of cuckoldery ANYWHERE in the first letter. It sounds like her husband wanted to have a MMF threesome. Did he tell you he was a cuckold, NRTS? Or did you assume that because he wanted to have a threesome he was a cuckold? A threesome and cuckoldery have very little in common. I'm guessing you labeled your hubby's desires as cuckoldery, not him, because being cuckolded means, by definition, that he wants to feel like you're fooling him out of sex.
You are CHEATING on him if you went from MMF husband-inclusive threesome to side-fucking husband's friend without asking husband's permission first.
You are CHEATING on him if you went from MMF husband-inclusive threesome to side-fucking husband's friend without asking husband's permission first.
52
@50 I would have agreed with you completely until a few days ago, when I listened to the radio program Dan linked to. Until that point, I thought if I told any of my kids that I was fine with it if they were gay, then I might make them self-conscious about their behaviour/appearance ("why did she say that? was it that shirt??"), and I assumed because we have a really open relationship, that it would be fine. When I listened to the email this woman sent in to the radio program (link is above @5) I was floored, and realized that I should have just made sexual orientation something that was part of all my "chats", and not made it a big deal, just put it out there that I was fine with it. I agree that having a heart to heart with a 14 year old of the "son, are you gay" variety would probably be a mistake, as it would put a lot of pressure on them.
54
@39: The concept was talking about it specifically during their sex sessions, thereby killing whatever sex life the two of them had left. There is no evidence from the letter that that was how the husband went about it.
In any case, it obviously DIDN'T kill her arousal, did it? Your objection would imply that he's potentially a hypocritical asshole because he coerced her into doing something that she still doesn't like, and that's not the case here, is it? She's quite happy with the current state of, er, affairs. He on the other hand, isn't happy any more, but she doesn't want to stop, despite his feelings.
Regarding whether she is "obligated" to coddle his ego, no, she isn't "obligated" -- but she shouldn't be surprised if he dumps her if she elects not to. Emotions are funny that way.
In any case, it obviously DIDN'T kill her arousal, did it? Your objection would imply that he's potentially a hypocritical asshole because he coerced her into doing something that she still doesn't like, and that's not the case here, is it? She's quite happy with the current state of, er, affairs. He on the other hand, isn't happy any more, but she doesn't want to stop, despite his feelings.
Regarding whether she is "obligated" to coddle his ego, no, she isn't "obligated" -- but she shouldn't be surprised if he dumps her if she elects not to. Emotions are funny that way.
55
I agree with those that don't view this as cuckolding. It looked like the husband just wanted to try threesomes, and it developed into the wife wanting to do it on a regular one on one basis, with or without the husband's consent. I am thinking about letting my wife know that she can get it on with other guys, if she wants. If she doesn't, then so be it. If she does, I expect to know about it, but not necessarily be there when it happens. I doubt she will ever take me up on this, but this is what I believe cuckolding is. Am I wrong?
56
@LOUD, do I know her?
Kidding aside, this is one of the few times I disagree with Dan. It can be hard to be quiet sometimes and it's much closer to hardwired than an "if you really loved me" thing. So consider enlisting the help of a pillow or a gag or various parts of your body to absorb some of the noise. Or have sex over at her place.
Kidding aside, this is one of the few times I disagree with Dan. It can be hard to be quiet sometimes and it's much closer to hardwired than an "if you really loved me" thing. So consider enlisting the help of a pillow or a gag or various parts of your body to absorb some of the noise. Or have sex over at her place.
57
@55 Traditionally, cuckolding involves humiliation of the husband, and a lot of talk about how the "bull" is better endowed, better able to perform, etc. etc.
But between cuckolding and MMF, there's a vast array of possible activities with no humiliation involved. Instead, the husband is turned on by seeing or imagining his wife screwing other men. My advice for men who want to go there: bring it up as fantasy for a year or so, in bed, before suggesting it as a real possibility. Get your wife used to thinking the idea is hot, before she has to adjust to breaking society's codes in that way.
Does anyone know of someone who has the reverse fetish: a wife who loves imagining her husband screwing other women? (Wives imagining their husbands with other men is pretty common, in my experience.)
But between cuckolding and MMF, there's a vast array of possible activities with no humiliation involved. Instead, the husband is turned on by seeing or imagining his wife screwing other men. My advice for men who want to go there: bring it up as fantasy for a year or so, in bed, before suggesting it as a real possibility. Get your wife used to thinking the idea is hot, before she has to adjust to breaking society's codes in that way.
Does anyone know of someone who has the reverse fetish: a wife who loves imagining her husband screwing other women? (Wives imagining their husbands with other men is pretty common, in my experience.)
58
I meant to say, also, that some husbands who aren't turned on by the idea of their wife having extramarital sex, still agree to it, to be GGG.
59
@54: Since he did badger her and got her drunk when she didn't want to do it, he still is a hypocritical asshole. The fact they she came to like it in the end is irrelevant to that fact. I'm amazed she didn't dump his ass at the beginning.
60
@54: We don't actually know the circumstances in which he first brought up the idea of her having sex with other men. I sort of assumed it would probably have been during sex/dirty talk, since that's usually when people are feeling aroused and uninhibited enough to talk about that kind of taboo subject (it's certainly the only time my guy mentions about it).
But no, I don't know the specific circumstances. Just like *you* don't actually know that her talking about it again during sex would "kill whatever sex life the two of them had left". It's conjecture.
And whether she grew to like it is besides the point - she was uninclined at first, and he had to nag her and get her drunk in order to agree to it. I think if she can put up with that and not dump him then he ought to be satisfied as long as she stops having sex with other men; I really don't see why she should lie about finding the idea hot, since he's clearly not shy about voicing his turn-ons.
But no, I don't know the specific circumstances. Just like *you* don't actually know that her talking about it again during sex would "kill whatever sex life the two of them had left". It's conjecture.
And whether she grew to like it is besides the point - she was uninclined at first, and he had to nag her and get her drunk in order to agree to it. I think if she can put up with that and not dump him then he ought to be satisfied as long as she stops having sex with other men; I really don't see why she should lie about finding the idea hot, since he's clearly not shy about voicing his turn-ons.
61
@33, Forlorn:
I've got nothing to say except that my heart goes out to you and to your son whom you so clearly love. I absolutely think personal protection orders and charges are appropriate, and if you and your son are prepared to go to court to make them stick, then do it. It's a hard thing to follow through on--my family went through it with my brother--but I absolutely think that bullies need to face legal repercussions for their actions. Hang in there!
I've got nothing to say except that my heart goes out to you and to your son whom you so clearly love. I absolutely think personal protection orders and charges are appropriate, and if you and your son are prepared to go to court to make them stick, then do it. It's a hard thing to follow through on--my family went through it with my brother--but I absolutely think that bullies need to face legal repercussions for their actions. Hang in there!
62
LOOOOOOOOOOONG time reader, first time commenter.
Dan- you rock in so many ways. I think the It Gets Better project is one of the most beautiful things I have heard about in ages. Thanks for initiating this.
Secondly, I had to go look up Tee Shirt in wikipedia, and yep there you are - go figure. And yes, I do have *way* too much time on my hands.
Keep up the great work!
Dan- you rock in so many ways. I think the It Gets Better project is one of the most beautiful things I have heard about in ages. Thanks for initiating this.
Secondly, I had to go look up Tee Shirt in wikipedia, and yep there you are - go figure. And yes, I do have *way* too much time on my hands.
Keep up the great work!
63
While I admire this project, I abhor the idea of legal prosecutions against bullies for suicides, apparently the knee-jerk reaction of many people here. The idea that bullying actually causes people to commit suicide, gay or straight, is ludicrous. Many, if not most, kids are bullied in some way or another, especially if they are gay. A small number of kids commit suicide. It stands to reason, then, that of the kids that commit suicide, many will have been bullied. Furthermore, of gay kids that commit suicide, most will have been bullied. But it does not prove that bullying causes suicide. It's this misunderstanding of statistics and causation--inflated a hysterical media--that causes a lot of bad public policy, everything from the censorship of music to city pit bull bans. While bullying should not be tolerated, holding some kid legally responsible for another person's severe mental problems is unconscionable. Let's offer support--through projects like "It Get's Better"--but how about we hold off on the witch hunts.
64
It really does get better: my 82 year old mother recently announced that she didn't think my nephew was living at home because "maybe he has a boyfriend"...but then she said "I wish he would just bring him home and let us meet him, he is welcome as family." Since my mom and I spent many years at swords points due to my sexuality, I almost wrecked the car---so much for talking while you drive!
However, nephew, bow yourself down to my feet---I went first! Seriously, I'm glad it has changed.
However, nephew, bow yourself down to my feet---I went first! Seriously, I'm glad it has changed.
65
@57 - That's always the impression that I got from what I've read of cuckolding. The fantasy isn't that he "wants" his wife to go out and fuck other guys. It's that she goes out and does it and then comes home and brags about it to him, or even forces the husband to lick up her stud's ejaculate. It is humiliation, a lack of control.
This guy just sounds like he wants his wife to give control of her body to him to use as he wants. Which could work, if she was okay with it. But I suspect she isn't.
This guy just sounds like he wants his wife to give control of her body to him to use as he wants. Which could work, if she was okay with it. But I suspect she isn't.
66
I teach at a university in England and am part of the lgbt staff group there. In conjunction with the lgbt student group, we're running a coming-out workshop next week. We want to have a safe environment for students to be able to talk about what it means to come out and to practice what they might say. I think it's so important for those of us who are older and have been through difficult times due to our sexuality or gender identity to do whatever we can to support the next generation of lgbt people. I hope more universities/colleges/high schools will do the same.
The videos on the site made me cry. Let's keep doing all we can for young lgbt people.
The videos on the site made me cry. Let's keep doing all we can for young lgbt people.
67
Wow, bunch of fuckwads in here. Dan (as usual) was right on the money with his advice to NRTS. A GGG couple explores and indulges kinks and desires because, uh, why again? Because they fucking care about each other! I indulge my partner, and she indulges me, because we fucking love it, and love each other. Why would we continue doing something without being on the same page, in a spirit of trust and excitement? Well, we wouldn't. That shit's just common sense.
Dan: "give him a chance to see—and give you a chance to demonstrate—that he is still your first priority, emotionally and sexually."
Bingo. Sometimes it really is that simple.
Dan: "give him a chance to see—and give you a chance to demonstrate—that he is still your first priority, emotionally and sexually."
Bingo. Sometimes it really is that simple.
69
First things first, I'm shocked that a city full of people who can refer to themselves using words like "cis-gendered", "genderqueer", "leather Daddy dyke" and "pussyboi" without the slightest bit of shame or concern would read this letter and immediately jump to the conclusion that the husband is a cuckold. I can think of three reasons for a guy to do what he did that have nothing to do with cuckolding (at least, the stereotypical Internet cuckolding.)
1. He's already cheated on her, so he's returning the favor.
2. She's literally his perfect woman, but he can't keep up with her appetites.
3. He's being "considerate", as in he wants to open up the relationship and/or have threeways, but he's not the type of guy who'd pull the "FFM, then MMF" card.
I don't think that he's a cuckold. I *do* think that his self-esteem is low enough for him to think that he isn't "man enough" for her (which is slightly different than being a cuckold. I know a few cuckolds, none of them show anything near hesitation at the idea of their wives fucking around behind their backs/in front of them/over webcam/in another state...) If he were really a cuckold, he would have mentioned some level of power exchange (chastity, cross-dressing, bisexuality or more) long before NRTS allowed herself to "blame it on the Henny." Unless, of course, that little details was omitted from the published excerpt.
Anyway, from what little information was given, I can only come to one conclusion: NRTS forgot to continue to fuck her husband. Whether your lover is "better" (sizewise, stamina-wise, whatever) than your husband or not, it's your responsibility to maintain the lines of communication, satisfy his own urges and show devotion to the primary relationship. Relationships have to hold some level of reciprocity. When they don't, they fall apart and people start writing letters to advice columnists. And the fact that NRTS immediately assumed that "husband wants to have sex with me while I have sex with another guy"="husband wants me to fuck as many guys as I want without worrying about his concerns because he's a slimy little cuckold", is destabilising enough.
But if you really want to be sure of your husband's status, here's a piece of advice: Walk up to him in the light of day and ask him in a firm voice, "So what *would* you do if I went back over to {friend's name}'s house, anyway?" If he's a cuckold, he'll either back down or his body will give him away.
More...
1. He's already cheated on her, so he's returning the favor.
2. She's literally his perfect woman, but he can't keep up with her appetites.
3. He's being "considerate", as in he wants to open up the relationship and/or have threeways, but he's not the type of guy who'd pull the "FFM, then MMF" card.
I don't think that he's a cuckold. I *do* think that his self-esteem is low enough for him to think that he isn't "man enough" for her (which is slightly different than being a cuckold. I know a few cuckolds, none of them show anything near hesitation at the idea of their wives fucking around behind their backs/in front of them/over webcam/in another state...) If he were really a cuckold, he would have mentioned some level of power exchange (chastity, cross-dressing, bisexuality or more) long before NRTS allowed herself to "blame it on the Henny." Unless, of course, that little details was omitted from the published excerpt.
Anyway, from what little information was given, I can only come to one conclusion: NRTS forgot to continue to fuck her husband. Whether your lover is "better" (sizewise, stamina-wise, whatever) than your husband or not, it's your responsibility to maintain the lines of communication, satisfy his own urges and show devotion to the primary relationship. Relationships have to hold some level of reciprocity. When they don't, they fall apart and people start writing letters to advice columnists. And the fact that NRTS immediately assumed that "husband wants to have sex with me while I have sex with another guy"="husband wants me to fuck as many guys as I want without worrying about his concerns because he's a slimy little cuckold", is destabilising enough.
But if you really want to be sure of your husband's status, here's a piece of advice: Walk up to him in the light of day and ask him in a firm voice, "So what *would* you do if I went back over to {friend's name}'s house, anyway?" If he's a cuckold, he'll either back down or his body will give him away.
70
Ok. I haven't been able to stop thinking about the "It Gets Better" project. It made me think of something else we can do to help the kids. We need something aimed at the adults who look the other way in regards to bullying. I always hear adults say "they are just kids!" And I always say "EXACTY!" This is when you, as an adult, are supposed to teach a child that abuse is wrong.
The bullying that goes on in our schools is criminal. If adults tried to do this in the workplace or on the subway, in the grocery store or wherever, THEY WOULD BE ARRESTED. Could you imagine if your boss or co-worker shoved you into the coat closet or took your work proposal and threw it?
We need to start a "How Would You Like It?" campaign, aimed at adults. We could have videos that show bosses in expensive suits, body checking associates. The tagline could be "Well, what do you expect? You never told them it was wrong." Or "Adults will be Adults."
Who's with me?
The bullying that goes on in our schools is criminal. If adults tried to do this in the workplace or on the subway, in the grocery store or wherever, THEY WOULD BE ARRESTED. Could you imagine if your boss or co-worker shoved you into the coat closet or took your work proposal and threw it?
We need to start a "How Would You Like It?" campaign, aimed at adults. We could have videos that show bosses in expensive suits, body checking associates. The tagline could be "Well, what do you expect? You never told them it was wrong." Or "Adults will be Adults."
Who's with me?
71
Ok. I haven't been able to stop thinking about the "It Gets Better" project. It made me think of something else we can do to help the kids. We need something aimed at the adults who look the other way in regards to bullying. I always hear adults say "they are just kids!" And I always say "EXACTY!" This is when you, as an adult, are supposed to teach a child that abuse is wrong.
The bullying that goes on in our schools is criminal. If adults tried to do this in the workplace or on the subway, in the grocery store or wherever, THEY WOULD BE ARRESTED. Could you imagine if your boss or co-worker shoved you into the coat closet or took your work proposal and threw it?
We need to start a "How Would You Like It?" campaign aimed at adults. We could have videos that show bosses in expensive suits, body checking associates. The tagline could be "Well, what do you expect? You never told them it was wrong." Or "Adults will be Adults."
The bullying that goes on in our schools is criminal. If adults tried to do this in the workplace or on the subway, in the grocery store or wherever, THEY WOULD BE ARRESTED. Could you imagine if your boss or co-worker shoved you into the coat closet or took your work proposal and threw it?
We need to start a "How Would You Like It?" campaign aimed at adults. We could have videos that show bosses in expensive suits, body checking associates. The tagline could be "Well, what do you expect? You never told them it was wrong." Or "Adults will be Adults."
74
When I read LOUD's letter, I thought of this comic: http://xkcd.com/316/ .
Anyone who has a loud girlfriend, consider going to Halloween as this comic. You wear an elliptical reflector dish, she wears a sign pointing to herself that says "LOUD". It should work fine with loud boyfriends as well.
Anyone who has a loud girlfriend, consider going to Halloween as this comic. You wear an elliptical reflector dish, she wears a sign pointing to herself that says "LOUD". It should work fine with loud boyfriends as well.
75
60: ""It's conjecture." Not sure where I ever stated otherwise, but whatever. I was just providing another viewpoint, as a warning that the suggested tactic MIGHT backfire.
"...get her drunk in order to agree to it." Really? Now you are the one overstating the evidence. A lot of people use alcohol to lower their inhibitions in an experimental situation. They probably all got drunk together at the start of the encounter to get comfortable. This was most likely days after she had already agreed. They had to have time for her to agree, for him to consult the friend, and for all of them to arrange a date. To hear you talk, he spiked her Earl Grey, immediately sneaked his friend into the bedroom, and took advantage of her incapacity.
What we know for sure is this -- and it makes an interesting comparison:
-- She: required a great deal of persuasion to try his thing, finally tried it twice, and found that she likes it a hell of a lot.
-- He: didn't need a great deal of persuasion to try her thing, tried it twice (or more; "a few times" is probably more than two), and found that he doesn't like it.
God what an asshole he is for talking her into trying something that it turns out she fucking loves. So, now he owes her an equal period of time putting up with something that he already tried out and knows he hates? Do you have any idea how crazy you sound?
There's nothing remotely symmetrical about that. He doesn't owe her some sort of prolonged break-in period to prove that he hates it. HE TRIED IT ALREADY. He already gave her thing at least as many goes as she did, and he knows it makes him unhappy. Nor is it payback for him being persistent. He talked her into finally doing something she loves doing. Nagging her into it turned out to be doing her a favor.
More...
"...get her drunk in order to agree to it." Really? Now you are the one overstating the evidence. A lot of people use alcohol to lower their inhibitions in an experimental situation. They probably all got drunk together at the start of the encounter to get comfortable. This was most likely days after she had already agreed. They had to have time for her to agree, for him to consult the friend, and for all of them to arrange a date. To hear you talk, he spiked her Earl Grey, immediately sneaked his friend into the bedroom, and took advantage of her incapacity.
What we know for sure is this -- and it makes an interesting comparison:
-- She: required a great deal of persuasion to try his thing, finally tried it twice, and found that she likes it a hell of a lot.
-- He: didn't need a great deal of persuasion to try her thing, tried it twice (or more; "a few times" is probably more than two), and found that he doesn't like it.
God what an asshole he is for talking her into trying something that it turns out she fucking loves. So, now he owes her an equal period of time putting up with something that he already tried out and knows he hates? Do you have any idea how crazy you sound?
There's nothing remotely symmetrical about that. He doesn't owe her some sort of prolonged break-in period to prove that he hates it. HE TRIED IT ALREADY. He already gave her thing at least as many goes as she did, and he knows it makes him unhappy. Nor is it payback for him being persistent. He talked her into finally doing something she loves doing. Nagging her into it turned out to be doing her a favor.
76
@gwenlane - EXCELLENT idea and point. Absolutely excellent.
@NRTS - You're angry, aren't you? He twisted your arm into doing something that you didn't want. He ignored your feelings, used your body, and asked you to open yourself and your intimacy to someone else, someone you know well
(his best friends). He totally disregarded your coupledom and your needs and you're pissed. He treated you like a common slut, not like his beloved and respected wife.
Therefore, now that you have this open door to fuck his friends, you're taking it and running with it and using it to twist his "permission" in his back. "You wanted me to fuck these guys and I didn't? Well tough shit asshole, I now can and I WILL!"
Bad idea. Voice your anger. Voice your resentment. Voice your needs. Because you need him to understand he can't just use your body and coerce you and disrespect you like that. GGG is one thing, but that is of one's own volition. Drunk and coerced? Not GGG, not cool. Therapy my dear. Try it - you two need it.
@NRTS - You're angry, aren't you? He twisted your arm into doing something that you didn't want. He ignored your feelings, used your body, and asked you to open yourself and your intimacy to someone else, someone you know well
(his best friends). He totally disregarded your coupledom and your needs and you're pissed. He treated you like a common slut, not like his beloved and respected wife.
Therefore, now that you have this open door to fuck his friends, you're taking it and running with it and using it to twist his "permission" in his back. "You wanted me to fuck these guys and I didn't? Well tough shit asshole, I now can and I WILL!"
Bad idea. Voice your anger. Voice your resentment. Voice your needs. Because you need him to understand he can't just use your body and coerce you and disrespect you like that. GGG is one thing, but that is of one's own volition. Drunk and coerced? Not GGG, not cool. Therapy my dear. Try it - you two need it.
77
@gwenlane - EXCELLENT idea and point. Absolutely excellent.
@NRTS - You're angry, aren't you? He twisted your arm into doing something that you didn't want. He ignored your feelings, used your body, and asked you to open yourself and your intimacy to someone else, someone you know well
(his best friends). He totally disregarded your coupledom and your needs and you're pissed. He treated you like a common slut, not like his beloved and respected wife.
Therefore, now that you have this open door to fuck his friends, you're taking it and running with it and using it to twist his "permission" in his back. "You wanted me to fuck these guys and I didn't? Well tough shit asshole, I now can and I WILL!"
Bad idea. Voice your anger. Voice your resentment. Voice your needs. Because you need him to understand he can't just use your body and coerce you and disrespect you like that. GGG is one thing, but that is of one's own volition. Drunk and coerced? Not GGG, not cool. Therapy my dear. Try it - you two need it.
@NRTS - You're angry, aren't you? He twisted your arm into doing something that you didn't want. He ignored your feelings, used your body, and asked you to open yourself and your intimacy to someone else, someone you know well
(his best friends). He totally disregarded your coupledom and your needs and you're pissed. He treated you like a common slut, not like his beloved and respected wife.
Therefore, now that you have this open door to fuck his friends, you're taking it and running with it and using it to twist his "permission" in his back. "You wanted me to fuck these guys and I didn't? Well tough shit asshole, I now can and I WILL!"
Bad idea. Voice your anger. Voice your resentment. Voice your needs. Because you need him to understand he can't just use your body and coerce you and disrespect you like that. GGG is one thing, but that is of one's own volition. Drunk and coerced? Not GGG, not cool. Therapy my dear. Try it - you two need it.
78
@63: I don't think they're talking about prosecuting bullies for the suicides, I think they're talking about prosecuting bullies for, ya know, bullying. At least when it takes the form of relatively actionable things like, oh, assault, theft, destruction of property...
Just because you're a kid doesn't mean you shouldn't face some kind of consequences for attacking another kid. I'm not saying haul 'em off to jail for the first punch (there's diminished capacity and all that to consider), but we shouldn't treat bullying, and especially reoccurring violent bullying, as "kids just being kids", or as the victim's fault/problem.
I like #70's idea of a campaign showing how ridiculous ignoring the kinds of behavior that (kid) bullies do every day would be if it was adults doing the bullying.
Just because you're a kid doesn't mean you shouldn't face some kind of consequences for attacking another kid. I'm not saying haul 'em off to jail for the first punch (there's diminished capacity and all that to consider), but we shouldn't treat bullying, and especially reoccurring violent bullying, as "kids just being kids", or as the victim's fault/problem.
I like #70's idea of a campaign showing how ridiculous ignoring the kinds of behavior that (kid) bullies do every day would be if it was adults doing the bullying.
79
Bottom line is, NRTS:
1) It makes your husband unhappy when you sleep with other guys without him.*
2) It makes you unhappy to contemplate going back to monogamy.*
3) People who are forced into situations that make them unhappy often end up divorcing the cause of their unhappiness.
4) You get to either have your husband, or the freedom to sleep around. Which is more important to you? Choose. Then be happy with the fact that you got what's important to you.
(*Are threesomes still an option? That seems like the most likely compromise position. If not, why not?)
1) It makes your husband unhappy when you sleep with other guys without him.*
2) It makes you unhappy to contemplate going back to monogamy.*
3) People who are forced into situations that make them unhappy often end up divorcing the cause of their unhappiness.
4) You get to either have your husband, or the freedom to sleep around. Which is more important to you? Choose. Then be happy with the fact that you got what's important to you.
(*Are threesomes still an option? That seems like the most likely compromise position. If not, why not?)
81
Why are you wikipedia-ing t-shirt? And why, as you say "every time", are you wikipedia-ing it more than once?
82
Did anybody here ever get away with "she started it!" when scolded for fighting as a kid? C'mon. Irrelevant.
I think lovers should go to as lengthy lengths as they can muster, to let their loves do "something they love doing". How they got to love whatever it is they love doesn't change that. The only relevant questions are: does the husband feel he has given it all he's got (to become okay with NTRS' extramarital sex), and if so, what can NTRS bring herself to give (up) to stay in the marriage?
If one of them wants a closed relationship, and the other one wants it open, they're just going to have to bargain it out from there, regardless of blame. (Not that resentment should be disregarded, if it is left to fester it can mess up negotiations terribly. Resentment should be resolved, precisely because it shouldn't factor into the eventual deal.)
Closing the relationship (for now) and showing the husband that his feelings are safe with her is a way for NTRS to possibly increase "the lengths her husband can go to" to let her do what she wants in the future. (All right, in the short term it's also a way of decreasing assholishness, by not waltzing right over his breaking heart.)
Meh, I take a long time to say: what they should do is not dictated by who owes whom, but why who wants what.
I think lovers should go to as lengthy lengths as they can muster, to let their loves do "something they love doing". How they got to love whatever it is they love doesn't change that. The only relevant questions are: does the husband feel he has given it all he's got (to become okay with NTRS' extramarital sex), and if so, what can NTRS bring herself to give (up) to stay in the marriage?
If one of them wants a closed relationship, and the other one wants it open, they're just going to have to bargain it out from there, regardless of blame. (Not that resentment should be disregarded, if it is left to fester it can mess up negotiations terribly. Resentment should be resolved, precisely because it shouldn't factor into the eventual deal.)
Closing the relationship (for now) and showing the husband that his feelings are safe with her is a way for NTRS to possibly increase "the lengths her husband can go to" to let her do what she wants in the future. (All right, in the short term it's also a way of decreasing assholishness, by not waltzing right over his breaking heart.)
Meh, I take a long time to say: what they should do is not dictated by who owes whom, but why who wants what.
83
If you aren't a true cuckold fetishist, then actually being cuckolded (even if it was a fantasy and I don't think it was the husband's fantasy) is not fun. It is demeaning, degrading, and strikes at the very core of what it means to be a man for a lot of men. I don't think women really get this or the long term, possibly permanent, damage it can do to a person. This is a separate and distinct issue from all the other issues associated with infidelity. Wether they admit it or not, the women are often of little or no consequence to men who target married or attached women, they are really engaged in dominance games with other men.
84
@83
Why wouldn't a woman understand? Why is it only the hearts of men who are so fragile as to be destroyed by cuckoldery?
Your sexism speaks negatively of your opinions of BOTH men and women. Examine your prejudices, revise your post, and maybe you'll have a point worth listening to. At this point you're just spewing anti-humanity rhetoric.
Why wouldn't a woman understand? Why is it only the hearts of men who are so fragile as to be destroyed by cuckoldery?
Your sexism speaks negatively of your opinions of BOTH men and women. Examine your prejudices, revise your post, and maybe you'll have a point worth listening to. At this point you're just spewing anti-humanity rhetoric.
85
BTW, I just wanna say - Joe Newton's illustrations really put the icing on the cake every week. Love 'em.
87
I certainly hope #63 doesn't have a child who eventually commits suicide after assiduous bullying that was never stopped because it wasn't legally prosecuted, especially if the child was never diagnosed as having what he/she refers to as "mental problems."
88
@84 Why do feminists and you are obviously a feminist always resort to name calling and pyschobable. You display the typical hard core feminist refusal to accept that there are real physical and psychological differences between men and women. On a visceral level I can never, will never understand what it means to be a woman. I will never have a period, get pregnant, have an abortion, give birth, or nurse a child. I doubt I will ever be foolish enough or arrogant enough to assert that I intellectually understand what it means to be a woman. If that is your definition of sexism, so be it. Granted there are commonalities between men and women, but it is the differences that make life interesting.
89
@84 If women truly understood the psychological impact of cuckoldery, why would they do it to someone they love? Are you asserting that many women are inherently cruel? Not that some, maybe many men don't deserve it. But you are right, that I have a low opinion of humanity supported by history and current events. I am never amazed by people''s inhumanity to people.
I speak not of the heart, but of the soul.
I speak not of the heart, but of the soul.
90
@88 While @84 is very likely a feminist, you too, sir are name calling. She is voicing her singular opinion and you are berating a group of people for that opinion.
Call her out all you want, but do not be "that guy" asking "why do ALL feminists...?" because ALL feminists don't do ANY one thing. Period.
Call her out all you want, but do not be "that guy" asking "why do ALL feminists...?" because ALL feminists don't do ANY one thing. Period.
91
@75: Nowhere did I say that NRTS should keep on having sex with other men. Jeez, the level of discourse here would be much improved if people responded to each other's actual arguments rather than projecting ideas onto them.
@89: If women truly understood the psychological impact of cuckoldery, why would they do it to someone they love?
Huh? That's not much of an argument - you can easily flip it around and ask why men are sometimes unfaithful, if they really have such a deep understanding of how cruel infidelity is (and please bear in mind that men are more often unfaithful than women).
@89: If women truly understood the psychological impact of cuckoldery, why would they do it to someone they love?
Huh? That's not much of an argument - you can easily flip it around and ask why men are sometimes unfaithful, if they really have such a deep understanding of how cruel infidelity is (and please bear in mind that men are more often unfaithful than women).
92
Maybe there's two separate fetishes at work here...regular cuckold fetish, and some sort of control based, force your wife to have sex with other people fetish...maybe a pimp fetish? The cuckolidist would get off on the fact that his wife is being fucked by some other guy, but the pimp fetishist gets off more on the idea that he is Forcing his wife to have sex with someone else.
93
@75:
Nagging her into it turned out to be doing her a favor.
Except now she's writing to Savage Love because her marriage is all screwed up, so clearly he didn't do her that much of a favor. Also, I'm not sure "nagging" is quite the right word here. When you bother your spouse until s/he walks the dog or fixes the sink, that's nagging. When you bother your spouse until s/he engages in a sexual activity that s/he is deeply uncomfortable with, that's not so much "nagging" as "being a raging asshole."
A lot of people use alcohol to lower their inhibitions in an experimental situation. They probably all got drunk together at the start of the encounter to get comfortable. This was most likely days after she had already agreed.
This could be the case, but it's far from the only plausible scenario. Threesomes don't necessarily need to be prenegotiated; speaking from personal experience, I don't think it's that uncommon for friends to plan to spend the evening hanging out and end up messing around after they've had a few beers. The way NRTS describes the second threesome -- "he steered me in that direction and I took the wheel" -- suggests some degree of spontaneity.
Even if NRTS agreed to the threesome in advance, while stone-cold sober, that hardly exonerates her husband. If you know that your spouse is only reluctantly willing to participate in a given sexual activity, engaging in that activity while your spouse is drunk is still an asshole move. It smacks of a calculated attempt to forestall any "take-backs."
Nagging her into it turned out to be doing her a favor.
Except now she's writing to Savage Love because her marriage is all screwed up, so clearly he didn't do her that much of a favor. Also, I'm not sure "nagging" is quite the right word here. When you bother your spouse until s/he walks the dog or fixes the sink, that's nagging. When you bother your spouse until s/he engages in a sexual activity that s/he is deeply uncomfortable with, that's not so much "nagging" as "being a raging asshole."
A lot of people use alcohol to lower their inhibitions in an experimental situation. They probably all got drunk together at the start of the encounter to get comfortable. This was most likely days after she had already agreed.
This could be the case, but it's far from the only plausible scenario. Threesomes don't necessarily need to be prenegotiated; speaking from personal experience, I don't think it's that uncommon for friends to plan to spend the evening hanging out and end up messing around after they've had a few beers. The way NRTS describes the second threesome -- "he steered me in that direction and I took the wheel" -- suggests some degree of spontaneity.
Even if NRTS agreed to the threesome in advance, while stone-cold sober, that hardly exonerates her husband. If you know that your spouse is only reluctantly willing to participate in a given sexual activity, engaging in that activity while your spouse is drunk is still an asshole move. It smacks of a calculated attempt to forestall any "take-backs."
94
IT is these religious koooks that spread all this hate. There was a religious nut on Anderson Cooper saying if we 'accept' young gays, (i.e. don't bully them) that it will only encourage them to "experiment" or "choose and alternative lifestyle." Anderson Coooper let this pass, much to my dismay. There was an African American pastor on NPR who says homosexuality is part of the reason the black community is in such dire straights. WO! Not THAT'S a stretch, huh?
95
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/201…
Just found that note on yahoo, I'm sure this project will make a difference, no one should have to put up with bullying!!!
Just found that note on yahoo, I'm sure this project will make a difference, no one should have to put up with bullying!!!
96
LOUD - Maybe you can let your girlfriend know that you like it that she's enjoying herself so much, but you worry about the practical implications (annoyed neighbors, landlords, etc.) and that if she can take it down a few notches when the two of you are getting busy at your place, you will go out of your way to find settings and occasions where she can let loose. Go on a remote camping trip, rent a cheap hotel room, find people with big empty houses to house-sit for, etc.
97
There is no fundamental difference between men and women. There is no "male brain" or "female brain." There is a brain in every person and every person is different. Thinking that men respond differently to cuckolding than women is flat-out WRONG (you honestly believe that no women in the entire world have ever had a cuckold fetish too?).
Thinking like this leads to upholding of stupid stereotypes like "men want sex all the time" and "women want infrequent sex, and also use sex to get what they want." In the relationships I've been in, as a het woman, I've ALWAYS been the one with the insatiable sex drive while my boyfriend would be turning me down. Sex roles have nothing to do with our penises and vaginas, mkay? Except insofar as one goes into the other.
Anyone who actually thinks otherwise is a proponent of evolutionary psychology, and is therefore full of bullshit.
Thinking like this leads to upholding of stupid stereotypes like "men want sex all the time" and "women want infrequent sex, and also use sex to get what they want." In the relationships I've been in, as a het woman, I've ALWAYS been the one with the insatiable sex drive while my boyfriend would be turning me down. Sex roles have nothing to do with our penises and vaginas, mkay? Except insofar as one goes into the other.
Anyone who actually thinks otherwise is a proponent of evolutionary psychology, and is therefore full of bullshit.
98
@88: "On a visceral level I can never, will never understand what it means to be a woman. I will never have a period, get pregnant, have an abortion, give birth, or nurse a child."
FYI, lots of women don't get pregnant, have abortions, give birth, or nurse children. Naturally, such choices are *unique* to women. But not all of us partake.
Also, not sure if you realize this, but your comment @89 appears to be saying that because some women cheat, women can't understand what it's like to be cheated on. Might want to fix that before you go out and see people.
FYI, lots of women don't get pregnant, have abortions, give birth, or nurse children. Naturally, such choices are *unique* to women. But not all of us partake.
Also, not sure if you realize this, but your comment @89 appears to be saying that because some women cheat, women can't understand what it's like to be cheated on. Might want to fix that before you go out and see people.
99
#97 Anyone who actually thinks evolutionary psychology has nothing to of use to say is a proponent of blinkered political correctness and is therefore full of bullshit.
Humans are really good at recognizing patterns - so good that they often see patterns that don't exist. The point is you have to be really careful which patterns ("stereotypes") you believe. You also have to realize any member of the patterned group is potentially an exception.
For example many (most?) people who post here are intelligent and open minded. You may be an exception.
Humans are really good at recognizing patterns - so good that they often see patterns that don't exist. The point is you have to be really careful which patterns ("stereotypes") you believe. You also have to realize any member of the patterned group is potentially an exception.
For example many (most?) people who post here are intelligent and open minded. You may be an exception.
100
@63 Children need boundaries and consequences, not just to protect the bullied srudents' right to have a safe place to learn, but also so that those who are bullying can learn appropriate social behavior before fucking up when it can cost them a job or jail time. If schools have and enforce reasonable anti-bullying policies students almost always fall in line. I am a high school teacher, and have seen it work!
The whole "kids will be kids" justification is ridiculous--small children naturally grab what the want, throw tantrums, and hit eachother with liile provocation--should parents turn a blind eye?
Sounds to me like 63 either was (and likely still is) a bully or has justified the bullying he/she endured with this line.
The whole "kids will be kids" justification is ridiculous--small children naturally grab what the want, throw tantrums, and hit eachother with liile provocation--should parents turn a blind eye?
Sounds to me like 63 either was (and likely still is) a bully or has justified the bullying he/she endured with this line.
101
91: Sorry, I was unclear writing about what she should or shouldn't keep doing. What I meant was, if he dislikes her sleeping around, there is a good chance that he will dislike her telling him - especially in the middle of her sexual encounters with him -- how much she wants to sleep around. There is a fair chance that he will take that as her rubbing his nose in it, and if so, don't expect a happy ending. For that reason -- not to mention simply if she truly cares about his feelings -- proceed with caution.
That, and if he does dislike that, he does not owe her some long period of letting her pour what is to him poison in his ear, as payback for the long period of persuasion that he put her through. He doesn't have to listen and listen and listen to her trying to turn him on to the idea for the simple fact that he already acquiesced, tried it, and found it really didn't work for him.
That, and if he does dislike that, he does not owe her some long period of letting her pour what is to him poison in his ear, as payback for the long period of persuasion that he put her through. He doesn't have to listen and listen and listen to her trying to turn him on to the idea for the simple fact that he already acquiesced, tried it, and found it really didn't work for him.
102
#57 re women with the reverse fetish: I know one and she's me.
I would love to either have an FMF threesome with my husband or actually "give" him another woman as a "gift." I'd like to stay and watch, but would leave if that's what they wanted.
It's not humiliation that I'm after (not in this context anyway.) It's that I'm the only woman he has ever had sex with and it makes me really sad to think he could live his whole life, die and never had sex with anyone else!
I've brought up the threesome idea a few times, but he didn't really seem into it.
I'm a pretty hot slutty wife (I like to think GGG) but shouldn't he be at least curious as to what it would feel like with another woman?
I would love to either have an FMF threesome with my husband or actually "give" him another woman as a "gift." I'd like to stay and watch, but would leave if that's what they wanted.
It's not humiliation that I'm after (not in this context anyway.) It's that I'm the only woman he has ever had sex with and it makes me really sad to think he could live his whole life, die and never had sex with anyone else!
I've brought up the threesome idea a few times, but he didn't really seem into it.
I'm a pretty hot slutty wife (I like to think GGG) but shouldn't he be at least curious as to what it would feel like with another woman?
103
89: "If women truly understood the psychological impact of cuckoldery, why would they do it to someone they love?"
If (men) truly understood the psychological impact of (cheating and rubbing their nose in it, which is what cuckoldry is), why would they do it to someone they love?
Does that make it clear how the dynamics can be symmetrical? This isn't a problem of women doing this to men, but of one partner, regardless of sex, doing it to their unwilling spouse.
If (men) truly understood the psychological impact of (cheating and rubbing their nose in it, which is what cuckoldry is), why would they do it to someone they love?
Does that make it clear how the dynamics can be symmetrical? This isn't a problem of women doing this to men, but of one partner, regardless of sex, doing it to their unwilling spouse.
104
There was a time in my life that I could have used something like "it gets better". When I was about 13 I was going to kill myself. I was going to and ready but didn't because of a chance coincidence. I'm not LGBT, but still could have used the help to get through the times of my life when I was socially awkward, small and without friends. I've grown up to gain confidence, make many good friends, marry a beautiful woman, get a good (and stable) job, buy a beautiful home in a community that I love and many many other things that I thought I would never have. I am a contributing member of society and happy to be here.
Thank you for setting up a project that can help all people. Not just LGBT or teens but anyone. It is important to know that things get better....sometimes you need to be told a couple, a hundred, a thousand times before you get it.
Thank you for setting up a project that can help all people. Not just LGBT or teens but anyone. It is important to know that things get better....sometimes you need to be told a couple, a hundred, a thousand times before you get it.
105
There was a time in my life that I could have used something like "it gets better". When I was about 13 I was going to kill myself. I was going to and ready but didn't because of a chance coincidence. I'm not LGBT, but still could have used the help to get through the times of my life when I was socially awkward, small and without friends. I've grown up to gain confidence, make many good friends, marry a beautiful woman, get a good (and stable) job, buy a beautiful home in a community that I love and many many other things that I thought I would never have. I am a contributing member of society and happy to be here.
Thank you for setting up a project that can help all people. Not just LGBT or teens but anyone. It is important to know that things get better....sometimes you need to be told a couple, a hundred, a thousand times before you get it.
Thank you for setting up a project that can help all people. Not just LGBT or teens but anyone. It is important to know that things get better....sometimes you need to be told a couple, a hundred, a thousand times before you get it.
106
@91 because a lot of men are lowlife, selfish, scumbags with no honor or integrity. They use, and abuse people without regard to gender or sexual orientation.
I am definitely not refering to honest open or poly relationships.
I am definitely not refering to honest open or poly relationships.
107
I do think it's important to note that NRTS didn't mention wanting to "sleep around" with multiple partners, just the one guy whom her husband brought to their bed.
108
My original post was about cuckoldry, not the cuckoldry fetish, and why some men purposely pursue married or attached women specifically to cuckold some other male. What I was trying to say was that the women don't really understand the true motivation of these men, which is to inflict harm on the other man. Trying to be logical and coherent at 2 AM can be a challenge.
The cruelest ones of all will make sure the other man finds out and then discard the female who has served her purpose and is of no further use to him. As I said they are engaged in dominance games and the women are just a means to an end.
Historically being cuckolded exposed the cuckold to extreme social derision and humiliation that often resulted in violence and still does in many cultures (such as honor killings, suicide, murder/suicide). I know there are comparable issues for women and gays. I give you the Rutgers incident and the case of the lovely freshmen girl who was so tormented by upper class females at her high school just because senior boys showed interest in her that she committed suicide. I can not even begin to fathom the mindset of these people. Just like I can't understand the mindset of a pedophile or serial killer.
Broken hearts mend. Destroyed souls don't.
The cruelest ones of all will make sure the other man finds out and then discard the female who has served her purpose and is of no further use to him. As I said they are engaged in dominance games and the women are just a means to an end.
Historically being cuckolded exposed the cuckold to extreme social derision and humiliation that often resulted in violence and still does in many cultures (such as honor killings, suicide, murder/suicide). I know there are comparable issues for women and gays. I give you the Rutgers incident and the case of the lovely freshmen girl who was so tormented by upper class females at her high school just because senior boys showed interest in her that she committed suicide. I can not even begin to fathom the mindset of these people. Just like I can't understand the mindset of a pedophile or serial killer.
Broken hearts mend. Destroyed souls don't.
111
@107: If you want to speak of a sexual partner in the singular, that would be the spouse. Anyone in addition to that is by definition multiple partners.
Also, it's not like she was complaining that she wanted five guys on the side and her husband would only agree to one. He wants zero outside partners. Any number higher than zero is a problem to him. So, no, it isn't really as relevant as all that.
Also, it's not like she was complaining that she wanted five guys on the side and her husband would only agree to one. He wants zero outside partners. Any number higher than zero is a problem to him. So, no, it isn't really as relevant as all that.
112
Re those people claiming that suicide is "contagious"...it's not. There's no spike in suicide attempts due to media coverage of a death, there's a rise in successes...because when a suicide is reported, now people have a good idea of a "successful" method. And that's where the "spike" in suicides comes from. It's not that people who were otherwise perfectly fine suddenly decide to start killing themselves.
113
Givingwife @102 - sounds like you want him to have sex with another woman because you're nice and looking out for him, but not because you actually fantasize about it and orgasm thinking of another woman straddling him. Which makes you a nice person (yay you!), but not someone who fetishizes the idea of her husband with another woman.
He may have his own reasons... insecurities about staying hard, or about another woman being attracted to him enough to say yes. I would take the pressure off. He knows you're fine with it. If the situation comes up, and he wants to go for it, presumably he'll remember that you were enthusiastic before.
He may have his own reasons... insecurities about staying hard, or about another woman being attracted to him enough to say yes. I would take the pressure off. He knows you're fine with it. If the situation comes up, and he wants to go for it, presumably he'll remember that you were enthusiastic before.
114
Avast2006, I agree with you that if the idea of her with another guy is now upsetting to him, she shouldn't talk about it in bed. But they could have a conversation (calmly, out of bed), where she asks whether there's some aspect of the MMF that he's still interested in. If there is, they could use their own sex time as a way to try to figure out what exactly he wants, and how that might coincide with what she wants.
115
Don't know if anyone else around here reads Dear Prudence - I do, but after this week's column I'm just about ready to quit.
http://www.slate.com/id/2270172/
Prudence's response to a woman who worries that her husband is cheating on her with his best (male) friend - worries that, in the context of the letter, seem at least possible - is to crack a series of Brokeback Mountain jokes. If this bugs you as much as it does me, head on over there and give her a piece of your mind (since it looks like she's actually reading and responding to reader comments).
http://www.slate.com/id/2270172/
Prudence's response to a woman who worries that her husband is cheating on her with his best (male) friend - worries that, in the context of the letter, seem at least possible - is to crack a series of Brokeback Mountain jokes. If this bugs you as much as it does me, head on over there and give her a piece of your mind (since it looks like she's actually reading and responding to reader comments).
116
What gets me is that more school districts aren't being sued. In 1996, Jamie Nabozny, a gay Wisconsin kid, won almost $1m from his school district in a landmark case. If the districts and principals won't address bullying because it's the right thing to do, don't you think they'd do it because losing a lawsuit will mean they can't afford a football team anymore?
117
Wow! That was a lot of comments. I gave Dan the Reader's Digest version of our relationship. I will read them all and respond if you are interested. I am shocked Dan answered my question so quickly! Love him! NRTS
118
NRTS here. I gave Dan the Reader's Digest version of the issue. We are navigating new territory, but in no way is our relationship in jeopardy. We have a very active sex life since opening this up. He trusts this friend in particular and I am not suggesting that I do whatever I want. We are talking about twice in two years. He talks a lot about it during sex. All of us and just the friend and I. I think he likes giving me the control in fantasy rather than reality. I just want the freedom if the opportunity presents itself. He is naturally a more cautious person than I am. The first threesome was early on in our marriage. I didn't even know this was possibly at the time. The second time many years later another trusted friend entered in. Yes, I took things a step further, but again we are navigating. That's why I asked Dan's opinion. Do I get a GGG t-shirt now?
119
No, you are not "navigating." He's calling for it to stop, and you don't want to stop. That's not "navigating."
Clarification, please: You wrote "I now have had sex alone with Friend Two a few times." Now you say "twice in two years" but proceed to give details about the threesomes. What exactly does "twice in two years" refer to?
Another clarification, please: "Yes, I took things a step further" With or without his explicit permission, obtained beforehand? If the answer to that question is "without" then again you aren't "navigating," you are cheating and hoping he will handle it well.
Clearly, he arranged for threesomes, which you eventually agreed to. What specifically makes you think that your outside adventures were part of the deal HE agreed to? In reality, not just in dirty talk during your sex sessions with your husband? You still don't seem to get the difference between fantasy sex play and real life. He wanted fantasy. You want the real life version, which doesn't even include him, and makes him uncomfortable. You don't want to stop, despite it making him unhappy. That right there means you don't get the GGG T-shirt.
You may think your relationship is in no jeopardy, but I maintain that that particular door stays open only so long as both people enthusiastically want it open. If he wants it closed, and you refuse to close it, you run a genuine risk of coming home one night to find not only has that door been closed for you, but the locks have been changed.
Frankly, the person I want to hear more from at this point is HIM.
Clarification, please: You wrote "I now have had sex alone with Friend Two a few times." Now you say "twice in two years" but proceed to give details about the threesomes. What exactly does "twice in two years" refer to?
Another clarification, please: "Yes, I took things a step further" With or without his explicit permission, obtained beforehand? If the answer to that question is "without" then again you aren't "navigating," you are cheating and hoping he will handle it well.
Clearly, he arranged for threesomes, which you eventually agreed to. What specifically makes you think that your outside adventures were part of the deal HE agreed to? In reality, not just in dirty talk during your sex sessions with your husband? You still don't seem to get the difference between fantasy sex play and real life. He wanted fantasy. You want the real life version, which doesn't even include him, and makes him uncomfortable. You don't want to stop, despite it making him unhappy. That right there means you don't get the GGG T-shirt.
You may think your relationship is in no jeopardy, but I maintain that that particular door stays open only so long as both people enthusiastically want it open. If he wants it closed, and you refuse to close it, you run a genuine risk of coming home one night to find not only has that door been closed for you, but the locks have been changed.
Frankly, the person I want to hear more from at this point is HIM.
120
Lady, if you think your son may be gay then I'd suggest to you that you need to move to a location more tolerant than rural Kentucky. Is it really worth 4 years of his hell just so you don't have to move? Not to be melodramatic, but did you see the list of names Dan posted? For every one that killed themselves, I'm sure there are countless others who thought of it and wanted to. He's watching videos of people trying to stop teenagers from killing themselves. OK? Hello? Is there anybody in there? Get him OUT of there - right now!
121
NRTS - I've been in your position. It is possible to find a solution that everyone is comfortable with. If you look way, way up near the top you'll see what worked for us. I wish you well in your attempts to find a compromise.
In my situation, the reason my husband wasn't super excited about my solo sex with the friend is just because he wanted to be there (threesomes make him very, very happy) but work schedules, etc. kept all three of us from being able to get together as often as we wanted to. My husband was willing to compromise to let me have some extra fun because I made sure to attend to his needs, too and because he was allowed the occasional extra fun with another (female) friend. Despite what so many people on here say, it isn't necessarily about anger, resentment, vengance, or the imminent demise of the marriage. Sometimes it's something as mundane as people's work schedules.
In my situation, the reason my husband wasn't super excited about my solo sex with the friend is just because he wanted to be there (threesomes make him very, very happy) but work schedules, etc. kept all three of us from being able to get together as often as we wanted to. My husband was willing to compromise to let me have some extra fun because I made sure to attend to his needs, too and because he was allowed the occasional extra fun with another (female) friend. Despite what so many people on here say, it isn't necessarily about anger, resentment, vengance, or the imminent demise of the marriage. Sometimes it's something as mundane as people's work schedules.
122
In the frank interest of steering this column away from IGB and back to entertaining sexual relationship dynamics, I'd like to comment on a case in Podcast 205 (about 38 minutes in). This involves a young woman visiting a hot masseur, whose ministrations are getting increasingly sexual. She gets wet by this, but is confused by where it's going. Dan probes around and then focuses on a target. After repeated questions, he gets her to to say, no, she doesn't want M to fuck her. Dan then instructs her it is time for W to have The Talk, and tell M she doesn't want to be fucked by him.
My take on this is different. W wants M to desire her. She even says so once, but Dan doesn't follow up on it. This is where her confusion steps in. She is not sure if M wants her, or if he just is being a skillful masseur giving his client what she wants-- which would make her a whore-user. All woman want to be desired, that's why they spend 10 times as much on personal appearance than we. If M told told W he madly wanted her, she might feel differently about wanting him to fuck her-- but that again puts her in the position of paying for sex, which women don't do, and makes her feel undesirable.
My take on this is different. W wants M to desire her. She even says so once, but Dan doesn't follow up on it. This is where her confusion steps in. She is not sure if M wants her, or if he just is being a skillful masseur giving his client what she wants-- which would make her a whore-user. All woman want to be desired, that's why they spend 10 times as much on personal appearance than we. If M told told W he madly wanted her, she might feel differently about wanting him to fuck her-- but that again puts her in the position of paying for sex, which women don't do, and makes her feel undesirable.
123
@115: I agree, and did this even before I saw your post. Glad someone else noticed it. Emily Yoffe as Prudence seems to be getting snarkier over the years. Margo Adams as Prudence never made these lame jokes.
124
The It Gets Better Project is gorgeous.
I've always appreciated your column and other endeavors, but this time you've made this world a better place. For kids, what's more.
Thank you.
I've always appreciated your column and other endeavors, but this time you've made this world a better place. For kids, what's more.
Thank you.
125
The It Gets Better Project is gorgeous.
I've always appreciated your column and other endeavors, but this time you've made this world a better place. For kids, what's more.
Thank you.
I've always appreciated your column and other endeavors, but this time you've made this world a better place. For kids, what's more.
Thank you.
126
Wow, Dan. I had no idea you were so hot, until I looked up the wikipedia article on the T-shirt. This will completely alter my reading experience of you column.
127
Somebody should also tell people living in Greensburg Indiana that no matter what their sexual orientation etc etc is: eventually you can move out of rural Indiana. It's all I can do not to drive into a post whenever I'm in that backwards-ass state.
128
@avast2000 We are navigating as I have stopped. Just because I don't want to doesn't mean I won't. I am not refusing to close the door. That's why I asked the question. Based on Dan's comments and yours and other members of this site it will open up a discussion for us. I told him that Dan featured a question I asked in his column. He has been working and has not read it yet. I let you know what he says if you are interested.
@immune5 Threesomes would be the ideal. Like I said, it has been twice in two years with his friend alone. If the opportunity presents itself, I want to be able to take it. If it is threesomes alone that he wants, then I guess I will wait.
@immune5 Threesomes would be the ideal. Like I said, it has been twice in two years with his friend alone. If the opportunity presents itself, I want to be able to take it. If it is threesomes alone that he wants, then I guess I will wait.
129
u invented tshirt? WOW, if, in any way, it's able to be verified, salute to you. But i m deeply suspicious of this. u were born 1968?, and tshirt existed way before that. another possibility is u smartly played the game by patenting tshirt? hardly to believe u can entirely take credit for it. anyway, still loving ur column .
130
u invented tshirt? WOW, if, in any way, it's able to be verified, salute to you. But i m deeply suspicious of this. u were born 1968?, and tshirt existed way before that. another possibility is u smartly played the game by patenting tshirt? hardly to believe u can entirely take credit for it. anyway, still loving ur column .
131
NRTS, thanks for the clarifications. I thought that you not wanting to close it meant the door was still open. That you have stopped already puts the situation in a different light.
If you are in the negotiating phase, you have to find out: a) exactly what it is about what you want to do that makes him unhappy (and respect that, don't try to psychoanalyze him out of it); b) exactly what he wants out of the situation; c) if there are some things that he can have permission to do in exchange for what you want, that make him happy (e.g., can he go have solo sex with girlfriends of his choosing, too), assuming that these things are actually likely to happen, and not just a paper concession.
Good luck.
If you are in the negotiating phase, you have to find out: a) exactly what it is about what you want to do that makes him unhappy (and respect that, don't try to psychoanalyze him out of it); b) exactly what he wants out of the situation; c) if there are some things that he can have permission to do in exchange for what you want, that make him happy (e.g., can he go have solo sex with girlfriends of his choosing, too), assuming that these things are actually likely to happen, and not just a paper concession.
Good luck.
133
@57 asked: Does anyone know of someone who has the reverse fetish: a wife who loves imagining her husband screwing other women?
I was with a woman like this once. She took me to a strip club, paid my entry, and bought me a lap dance. We then had sex in the car. From the stories she told me about her other relationships and escapades, I concluded that she was actually into dominant guys who got lots of play. A twist is that I think she also wanted to be gaming with guy to be "top bitch".
I was with a woman like this once. She took me to a strip club, paid my entry, and bought me a lap dance. We then had sex in the car. From the stories she told me about her other relationships and escapades, I concluded that she was actually into dominant guys who got lots of play. A twist is that I think she also wanted to be gaming with guy to be "top bitch".
135
I'm thinking NRTS's husband might have been turned on by the control aspect as much as, or maybe even more than, the cuckolding aspect. Because when he "made" her do it by getting her drunk and convincing her to fuck another guy, he thought it was hot. But when she went and fucked another guy of her own volition, he was no longer pleased.
Bingo. What you have is potentially a relationship with two tops in it, which is probably more dangerous (to the relationship) than the cuckold fetish.
It sounds to me like both of them have a real taste for control, which like Dan noted with the cuckold fetish, doesn't just go away. I hope they decide to do some research on dominance and submission and find some folks knowledgeable in that area to help talk them through things. I'd be willing to bet it will crop up again.
Bingo. What you have is potentially a relationship with two tops in it, which is probably more dangerous (to the relationship) than the cuckold fetish.
It sounds to me like both of them have a real taste for control, which like Dan noted with the cuckold fetish, doesn't just go away. I hope they decide to do some research on dominance and submission and find some folks knowledgeable in that area to help talk them through things. I'd be willing to bet it will crop up again.
136
Regarding NRST:
This is why fantasy is just fantasy and not reality. What goes on in my head like a threesome goes on great in my head because I'm the director. I would love to have a three way with my wife and another woman. But that's only in my head. When my rational thinking comes back I would never do it. Because maybe my wife might like her better than me sexually. Or the other girl might think my penis is too small. All these things never go on in my fantasy. I can't control reality. It is sometimes dangerous to mix fantasy and reality. This is just my opinion and I'm not being critical of people who do mix fantasy and reality.
This is why fantasy is just fantasy and not reality. What goes on in my head like a threesome goes on great in my head because I'm the director. I would love to have a three way with my wife and another woman. But that's only in my head. When my rational thinking comes back I would never do it. Because maybe my wife might like her better than me sexually. Or the other girl might think my penis is too small. All these things never go on in my fantasy. I can't control reality. It is sometimes dangerous to mix fantasy and reality. This is just my opinion and I'm not being critical of people who do mix fantasy and reality.
137
Regarding the wikipedia entry, I did briefly make the caption Dan in a T-Shirt, but someone changed it back and now whenever I go back and do it again, they change it back, so I gave up.
It's Gets Better is a stunning idea and I think that some of the rights lobbies or community groups should give Dan a prize or a certificate for it.
It's Gets Better is a stunning idea and I think that some of the rights lobbies or community groups should give Dan a prize or a certificate for it.
138
NRST,
it's simple. It was something attempted, something he wanted to explore, YOU were willing. Drunk or not. It wasn't forced upon you... no pity trip there. He's uncomfortable with you taking the ball and running with it, it isn't just about you being in control, it's about you going the extra yards. How about he now heads out the door and finds whatever extra women he wants to fuck. Would you be ok with that, or would you too then say "maybe we should take a few steps back here". You know you would. We all would. It's ok to get what we want, whatever it takes to make us happy... As a few said, obviously this is something you wanted because you did go a few steps further and make this something all about YOU. You took your husband out of the equation and started fucking the friend on your own. So he's being selfish by saying STOP? Wrong.
If what you want is freedom, go with it, leave the marriage, or let him DTFB (you). If not, work TOGETHER. Sorry that you will no longer be able to live our your sexual dreams. Life goes on.
it's simple. It was something attempted, something he wanted to explore, YOU were willing. Drunk or not. It wasn't forced upon you... no pity trip there. He's uncomfortable with you taking the ball and running with it, it isn't just about you being in control, it's about you going the extra yards. How about he now heads out the door and finds whatever extra women he wants to fuck. Would you be ok with that, or would you too then say "maybe we should take a few steps back here". You know you would. We all would. It's ok to get what we want, whatever it takes to make us happy... As a few said, obviously this is something you wanted because you did go a few steps further and make this something all about YOU. You took your husband out of the equation and started fucking the friend on your own. So he's being selfish by saying STOP? Wrong.
If what you want is freedom, go with it, leave the marriage, or let him DTFB (you). If not, work TOGETHER. Sorry that you will no longer be able to live our your sexual dreams. Life goes on.
139
@3, @7 (immune5),
I don't know about NRTS (they seem to be having a communication failure in that relationship; I hope they work it out, because these things can grow and become relationship killers), but I'm glad that you found a good solution for cuckolding your husband and keeping him happy with the idea. Since I'm myself interested in it (and, who knows? maybe my wife will be, too, someday), I am always glad to hear that the situation is working out well for someone. Have fun!
I don't know about NRTS (they seem to be having a communication failure in that relationship; I hope they work it out, because these things can grow and become relationship killers), but I'm glad that you found a good solution for cuckolding your husband and keeping him happy with the idea. Since I'm myself interested in it (and, who knows? maybe my wife will be, too, someday), I am always glad to hear that the situation is working out well for someone. Have fun!
141
I sorry, but I just don't see how two drunken threesomes many years apart followed her fucking the friend twice in two years translates into a cuckold fetish or even a fantasy?
It just doesn't sound like a sexual fixation.
It just doesn't sound like a sexual fixation.
142
@141, if you read @118, which is from the OP, NRTS, you'll see she says: "He talks a lot about it during sex." So, yes, the idea of her fucking other men does something for him, sexually.
But as avast has been discussing with her, she needs to slow things down and figure out what they can do to keep their own sex life hot. That may mean returning to just fantasizing about other men, it may mean having her husband along when she fucks other men, it may mean excluding one particular other guy from consideration, whatever -that's up to them to figure out.
But as avast has been discussing with her, she needs to slow things down and figure out what they can do to keep their own sex life hot. That may mean returning to just fantasizing about other men, it may mean having her husband along when she fucks other men, it may mean excluding one particular other guy from consideration, whatever -that's up to them to figure out.
143
Dan the Man, you've done it again!! Major kudos for your It Gets Better campaign!!
I live for your column!
I live for your column!
144
LongTime Reader is correct, from someone who knows (I was a 'domme', who somehow 'made' a 'sub' guy suck dicks, but anytime this dominatrix (& I really am, sometimes- it's just not my ONLY kink) tried to get him to actually *submit*, he refused -and somehow I still ended up with my boobs tied, fucking another guy so he could 'be forced' to suck his dick.
(He now preaches and is a deacon in a distinctly non-gay-friendly (I asked) Calvinist church. I think he wants buttsecks with the Pastor, personally.)
Cordially, BTDT
(He now preaches and is a deacon in a distinctly non-gay-friendly (I asked) Calvinist church. I think he wants buttsecks with the Pastor, personally.)
Cordially, BTDT
145
@63, yes, the bulliers should have a punishment and you should take your head out of your ass and realize that a person does not have to have "severe mental problems" to committ suicide. In many cases people who have, as you put it, "severe mental problems", have them from the effects of being bullied. The bulliers plant seeds into the persons being bullied heads that they are not wanted in this world so whats the point? And in these cases the victims committ suicide which the fault ultimately lays at the feet of the bullier. So it should be considered manslaughter, at whatever degree
146
As someone with a serious cuckold fetish, I think Dan's advice to NRTS is RIGHT ON and shows a real understanding of the fact that the fetish is often an anxiety-induced fetish, producing some stop-start or contradictory behavior. I can guarantee you that the husband is incredibly turned on by the wife's behavior, even though he's also scared at the same time. There is definitely a real difference between the affairs where the husband asks her to start, and the ones she starts on her own, and it doesn't necessarily mean he's a control freak just because that worries him.
I've tried desperately to convince my wife to cuckold me, either with my help or without. If she finally goes through with it, and starts initiating it herself regularly, I'm sure I will be scared too, although it will turn me on like nothing else.
Understanding that dynamic and playing on it, can lead to turn-ons for both of you that are beyond what he or NRTS would ever have imagined.
I've tried desperately to convince my wife to cuckold me, either with my help or without. If she finally goes through with it, and starts initiating it herself regularly, I'm sure I will be scared too, although it will turn me on like nothing else.
Understanding that dynamic and playing on it, can lead to turn-ons for both of you that are beyond what he or NRTS would ever have imagined.
147
As someone with a serious cuckold fetish, I think Dan's advice to NRTS is RIGHT ON and shows a real understanding of the fact that the fetish is often an anxiety-induced fetish, producing some stop-start or contradictory behavior. I can guarantee you that the husband is incredibly turned on by the wife's behavior, even though he's also scared at the same time. There is definitely a real difference between the affairs where the husband asks her to start, and the ones she starts on her own, and it doesn't necessarily mean he's a control freak just because that worries him.
I've tried desperately to convince my wife to cuckold me, either with my help or without. If she finally goes through with it, and starts initiating it herself regularly, I'm sure I will be scared too, although it will turn me on like nothing else.
Understanding that dynamic and playing on it, can lead to turn-ons for both of you that are beyond what he or NRTS would ever have imagined.
I've tried desperately to convince my wife to cuckold me, either with my help or without. If she finally goes through with it, and starts initiating it herself regularly, I'm sure I will be scared too, although it will turn me on like nothing else.
Understanding that dynamic and playing on it, can lead to turn-ons for both of you that are beyond what he or NRTS would ever have imagined.
RSS
Twitter
Comments (147) RSS