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Trans Panic
April 6, 2011
+ Enlarge this Image
Joe Newton
I came out as trans-something/genderqueer three years ago. I was born male but live my life predominantly as female. I'm 25 now. Coming out involved accepting that it would complicate my ever finding someone. I haven't dated since.
My problem: Today, a guy my age asked me out while making me a sandwich in a cafe. He told me I was very pretty and asked if he could take me out. I gave him my number. Before I left, he said, "I'd really like a relationship with you." That sounded like a weirdo red flag. I told him, "We'll see," but agreed to the date.
I don't know the rules and I'm a panicked mess. I know to meet in a public place, in the afternoon, tell people about it—all the safety stuff—but I am afraid that he's a creep. But no one has ever told me before that I'm pretty. While I'm not ugly, I'm not passable. My questions:
1. Was he way too creepy to go on that date?
2. Was agreeing to a date smart or dumb?
3. Am I acting out of desperation?
4. The great unanswerable: How do I get the giddy 13-year-old inside to grow up so the 25-year-old can navigate safely in the dating world?
Does Understand Men Basically
1. My inbox sags under the weight of e-mails from straight/straight-identified guys who are desperate to meet transwomen/trans- somethings, and not all of them prefer passables. So it's possible that this guy saw trans- something, unpassable you and decided to go for it because you're everything he's ever wanted. If he's one of those guys who are into trans- women and/or born-male-trans-genderqueers-who-live-as-female-but-aren't-quite-passable, DUMB, it's also possible that he's never had a chance to meet someone like you before (you're not thick on the ground), and nerves and/or inexperience caused him to fumble the pass. The only way to determine if nerves made him come across as creepy or if he's genuinely creepy is to go on that date.
2. Smart. Even if it turns out that he's a creep, even if you never see him again, being open to people and taking risks—while at the same time taking all reasonable safety precautions (particularly important for transwomen, who face a much higher risk of violence at the hands of the sometimes deeply conflicted, self-loathing straight guys who are attracted to/resent transwomen)—is the only way that anyone ever manages to find love.
3. Yes, DUMB, you are acting out of desperation—you and everybody else. Just don't let your desperation—the worry that you won't ever meet anyone else who's interested in a girl like you—convince you to settle for a shitty and/or abusive relationship. If he comes across as nice at first but it turns out that he's an asshole or a creep, and if he begins to treat you like you're stuck with him because no one else will ever want you (not true—remember my inbox!), dump the motherfucker. It's better to be alone than to be with an asshole who preys on your insecurities to keep you coming back for more abuse.
4. I have no idea. I'm almost 10 years older than you and I'm still battling my inner/giddy 13-year-old.
I'm a hetero male in my late 30s, and this incident took place over a decade ago, but I've felt guilty about it ever since. I was at a convention and ended up having a one-night stand with a lovely woman. When I moved to go down on her, something I enjoy doing, she had a really, really, really smelly area. This woman did not have bad body odor in general; she had good hygiene. I managed to shift gears and brought her off with touch, but she pleaded with me to go down on her and I didn't. That made things awkward. I didn't say anything about the smell to her because I know that many women are self-conscious about vaginal odor.
My sex etiquette question for you: If you're with someone, and suddenly you discover that her private parts—or his—smell like something with a passed expiration date, what is the best way to handle it? Excuse yourself from bed and grab a washcloth for them? Grit your teeth and go down anyway, in an effort to be GGG, no matter how ill it might make you?
Vagina Odors Inform Cautious Etiquette
I realize that women can be sensitive about any suggestion of unpleasant vaginal odor—we can blame those "feminine hygiene" commercials as well as all those inexperienced boyfriends who react negatively to a vagina's natural, healthy odor because they didn't get the "spice" part of the "sugar and spice" memo. But as a general rule: The people you invite to stick their nose in your crotch, twat, sack, crack, etc. are allowed to form opinions about how you smell down there and share them with you. While it's unpleasant to be told your crotch stanks, it's much more unpleasant to find your nose tucked in someone's stanky crotch.
As this woman had good personal hygiene overall, VOICE, it's unlikely that a washcloth would've solved the problem. She may have had bacterial vaginosis, the most common cause of rank vaginal odor, or an untreated case of chlamydia or gonorrhea. As hard as "Something's not right down here" is to hear, particularly for some women, you didn't do her any favors by not speaking up—sensitively and compassionately—because if she did have a medical issue, she needed to seek treatment.
I am an attractive, "normal" 24-year-old female who enjoys taking pictures of myself nude for my own personal use. I delete most pictures, but I keep some on my laptop for my viewing only. My snoop boyfriend found some pictures that were taken before we got together and blew up. He got in my face and called me a slut. He threatened my safety when I told him to leave. He demanded to know who took the pictures (cameras have timers!) and to whom I was sending them (myself!). I broke up with him, but then took him back. We have since talked about my "fetish"; he still does not like it and wants all the pictures erased. To be honest, these pictures are not all that important to me, but the way he reacted is. To me, he showed he does not trust me and never will.
Still Love Ur Thoughts
The pictures may not be important to you, SLUT, but your autonomy, your safety, and your right to take enjoyment in and from your own damn body should be. So you're going to have to DTMFAST—dump the motherfucker a second time.
A boyfriend who's uncomfortable with your fetish is one thing. A boyfriend who's a threatening, insecure, controlling, irrational ASSHOLE about your fetish is another thing entirely. Someone invested in your sexual fulfillment, someone who loves and supports you, would not tell you to stop, or make accusations, or react like such a fucking baby. And someone who didn't have sexist hang-ups wouldn't make a distinction between the pictures you took after you met and the ones you had taken before you met. Beware of boys who freak out after stumbling onto what they believe to be evidence—even if they're wrong—that their girlfriends have been with other guys before them. They have issues.
DTMFAST.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
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1
You can always say "You don't smell right" instead of "you smell bad." The first might denote intelligent concern, and the second might just be hurtful and unhelpful.
5
Liar liar pants on fire! (about your age). Otherwise a very good column. Loved the advice to the first letter writer, I think all of us can take something useful from it.
6
@1: that's a good idea. for those who don't read unregistered comments, s/he said
"You can always say "You don't smell right" instead of "you smell bad." The first might denote intelligent concern, and the second might just be hurtful and unhelpful."
might not sound that different, but as a woman I might have an instinctual, super embarrassed, negative reaction to someone saying "god you stink" vs. "you don't smell right, you might consider seeing a doctor to see if everything's alright down there" or something.
@SLUT: oh lord, DTMFA. consider yourself lucky you got such an obvious red flag, and maybe see a therapist about this relationship, or at least think long and hard about why you would continue to see someone who threatened your safety for having sexy pics of yourself--taken for you, an old boyfriend, whatever.
"You can always say "You don't smell right" instead of "you smell bad." The first might denote intelligent concern, and the second might just be hurtful and unhelpful."
might not sound that different, but as a woman I might have an instinctual, super embarrassed, negative reaction to someone saying "god you stink" vs. "you don't smell right, you might consider seeing a doctor to see if everything's alright down there" or something.
@SLUT: oh lord, DTMFA. consider yourself lucky you got such an obvious red flag, and maybe see a therapist about this relationship, or at least think long and hard about why you would continue to see someone who threatened your safety for having sexy pics of yourself--taken for you, an old boyfriend, whatever.
7
@SLUT: A few weeks after my now-husband and I had started dating, my ex-boyfriend sent me cock pics, which I accepted and saved to my computer. I didn't see a problem with this, since we had only been together a few weeks (although we'd already agreed on exclusivity), and I wasn't cheating with my ex, nor did I want to. I just liked having cock pics. You'd think that my boyfriend would've reacted badly to that... and while he was hurt, and we had a little argument about it (he won, and I deleted those pics), he NEVER called me names, screamed at me, or threatened me!
And he didn't find them by snooping either. I didn't exactly hide them away... they were just in my regular pic folder. Snooping is another red flag of jealousy!
And he didn't find them by snooping either. I didn't exactly hide them away... they were just in my regular pic folder. Snooping is another red flag of jealousy!
8
Follow-up to VOICE's sex etiquette question: During a one-night stand at a convention, is it really advisable to have unprotected oral sex -- whether or not there is the smell of disease down there? Is promoting safer sex no longer in?
10
DUMB... you're not dumb. Go on the date (with all the protections of notifying your friends, etc.) and have a good time.
Dan's advice is solid.
Dan's advice is solid.
11
Am I wrong-headed for thinking that (not) DUMB should be sure that her status as trans-something/genderqueer is made explicit while they are in a public place? That way she can see how he reacts and reevaluate his level of creepiness. But I don't know if there's an unwritten rule that says trans-women don't talk about their trans-status early on in the relationship, lest it break the illusion. I personally would be really nervous about maintaining such an illusion and heading somewhere non-public with a guy I didn't know well.
12
I know Dan's answer to VOICE is 'the right thing to do' but there is literally no way to tell a woman she stinks without offending her. None. Even if she goes to the doc and OMG that smell was a sign of a deadly disease and you saved her life!... you'll still be the jerk who told her her genitals stink. Sorry.
Chances are she figured it out on her own, eventually, or even that she was just coming off her period and the smell was tied to that. Not that that means he should have gone down on her or anything like that (just as a woman shouldn't have to go down on a guy if he stinks, or she's not comfortable), just that he probably did the right thing. If she actually got off like he says she did, I doubt she was disappointed, anyway.
Chances are she figured it out on her own, eventually, or even that she was just coming off her period and the smell was tied to that. Not that that means he should have gone down on her or anything like that (just as a woman shouldn't have to go down on a guy if he stinks, or she's not comfortable), just that he probably did the right thing. If she actually got off like he says she did, I doubt she was disappointed, anyway.
13
It would be nice if DUMB's admirer turned out to be a nice guy as she sounds like a sweet girl. Dan, I think DUMB needed you response so good on you for answering her letter.
Fan from Australia
Fan from Australia
14
Also, for (not) DUMB, I'm feeling like a giddy 13-year-old today (despite my 41 years) because I had a really fun second date last night; made out like teenagers, very much looking forward to having sex with him on a future date, albeit with some trepidation because first-time sex is always a little nerve-wracking, even when you're not 13...
15
My congratulations to Ms Erica. I'm sure I'd be the wrong person to opine. The last time my giddy 13-year-old appeared, he seemed a good deal more calm than before. And now that I've Retired from Romance, I think he's actually died, yet my life seems on the whole considerably improved. Weird.
16
@8 statistically speaking, I've never ever heard of anyone using protection for oral on a woman. Those little plastic squares at feminist sex shops are covered in dust for a reason.
17
My initial reaction as to why the guy said "I wanted a relationship with you" is that he wanted to make sure that she knew that he wanted something more than to "do" a transwoman. I've heard (can't remember where; probably here) that that is something that transwomen have to deal with a bunch; meaning, guys who just want the novelty of sleeping with a transwoman or guys who are genuinely attracted to transwomen but are afraid to be open about their attraction.
18
I agree with Dan’s advice to SLUT, if her letter can be taken at face value. However, I sense a liar. I don’t believe she only has these photos on her computer for her “own personal use” (she “uses” them how?) and for her “own personal viewing.” These photos predated her current boyfriend, were possibly taken by someone else, and were (I’m guessing) likely shared with someone(s) else prior to her current relationship. If the bf is uncomfortable with that, DTMFA, but only if SLUT is (righteously) unashamedly honest about the history of those photos. If the bf really is beyond uncomfortable and has truthfully “threatened [her] safety” then she showed really poor judgment to ever take him back and should kick him to the curb again, no questions asked
20
@11, DUMB says she's going to disclose publicly, so you're not wrong-headed, but maybe you missed the part of her letter that says she already knows that safety stuff?
For those in VOICE's situation--if you have access to a shower/bath, you can always suggest something sexy involving the shower/bath. If she hasn't gone down on you yet, you can even tip her off by saying that you want to make sure that YOU are fresh for her. But I agree with @12, there's really not a good way to tell a one-night stand her crotch stinks. Long-term relationship, sure. But I don't think even @1's comment would work for one-night stands.
SLUT, I'd like to reiterate Dan's advice. Violations of privacy followed by namecalling and other threatening behavior is bad news even if he's sorry and it doesn't sound like he is. This shouldn't be about you winning his trust. You didn't do anything wrong. After an explosion like that, it should be about him winning yours, but instead he's still trying to control you by pushing you to erase pictures you took of yourself for yourself.
For those in VOICE's situation--if you have access to a shower/bath, you can always suggest something sexy involving the shower/bath. If she hasn't gone down on you yet, you can even tip her off by saying that you want to make sure that YOU are fresh for her. But I agree with @12, there's really not a good way to tell a one-night stand her crotch stinks. Long-term relationship, sure. But I don't think even @1's comment would work for one-night stands.
SLUT, I'd like to reiterate Dan's advice. Violations of privacy followed by namecalling and other threatening behavior is bad news even if he's sorry and it doesn't sound like he is. This shouldn't be about you winning his trust. You didn't do anything wrong. After an explosion like that, it should be about him winning yours, but instead he's still trying to control you by pushing you to erase pictures you took of yourself for yourself.
21
DTMFAST. Perfect acronym. And terrific advice. Even before I got to the end of the letter my DTMFA alarm was going off.
23
@nordica she "uses" them how? FOR MASTURBATION. JEEZE. There are lots of both men and women who get turned on by taking dirty images of themselves. And heck yeah, I'm one of them.
25
In cosmological or geological terms the difference between 'nearly ten years' and 21 years is negligible, so I'll give Dan a pass on the amusing arithmetic. Just avoid emulating President Reagan's habit of celebrating anniversaries of his 38th birthday (as in 'Nancy and I enjoyed celebrating the 35th anniversary of my 38th birthday') and all will be well.
I read DTMFAST as "dump the mother FAST", which also pertains to SLUT. The sooner you dump him, the better, honey--your boyfriend is potentially a dangerous motherfucker.
I read DTMFAST as "dump the mother FAST", which also pertains to SLUT. The sooner you dump him, the better, honey--your boyfriend is potentially a dangerous motherfucker.
26
@18 I think you're jumping to conclusions. I am ALSO a 24-year-old straight girl who enjoys taking pictures of herself for her "own personal use". No guys in the picture. I blame it on my new iPhone. : ) Women our age grew up taking normal pics of themselves to post on myspace, etc. as teenagers, and it's fun and sexy to realize you can do the same as an adult! But even better!
I enjoy taking them and looking at them later makes me feel sexy and desirable. It's not just moms who sometimes forget to hold on to their identity as sexual beings - it's easy to lose track of some days between long hours at work and everything else going on in life. The pics are a nice pick-me-up and a pleasant reminder!
And if my next boyfriend were to react like SLUT's, I promise you he wouldn't be my boyfriend for much longer.
I enjoy taking them and looking at them later makes me feel sexy and desirable. It's not just moms who sometimes forget to hold on to their identity as sexual beings - it's easy to lose track of some days between long hours at work and everything else going on in life. The pics are a nice pick-me-up and a pleasant reminder!
And if my next boyfriend were to react like SLUT's, I promise you he wouldn't be my boyfriend for much longer.
27
Excellent column/answers this week! Your advice to DUMB was especially compassionate.
Re: The second letter/stank? Honestly, how could she not know, herself?
Hope you gear up for a big 40th birthday party in a few years! And hey, extra fun, cause your son should be legal by then, you guys can all party together, woot!
Re: The second letter/stank? Honestly, how could she not know, herself?
Hope you gear up for a big 40th birthday party in a few years! And hey, extra fun, cause your son should be legal by then, you guys can all party together, woot!
28
Totally agree with the advice to SLUT: please rid your life of this guy quickly! He snoops without permission, dislikes the findings, blows up at you, threatens you, and is still pressuring you to get rid of pictures that have a perfectly innocent purpose? He's never going to stop feeling threatened over you. The issue isn't really that he lacks trust; it's that he lacks respect for you and confidence in himself, which can be a very dangerous combination.
I am rooting for DUMB! Yeah, "I want a relationship" might be a weird thing to say when you're just getting someone's number. In this situation, though, if DUMB isn't passing as a woman, it's not weird because the prospective boyfriend might want her to know that his interest is for real. I agree with Erica that she should make sure he knows the deal, before meeting up in private. What he says about it might reveal a lot more about whether he's a safe person to date.
Also totally agree with #8. I don't see the wisdom of going down on a perfect stranger without protection. Questionable smells that might mean an infection or STD would only magnify that issue.
I am rooting for DUMB! Yeah, "I want a relationship" might be a weird thing to say when you're just getting someone's number. In this situation, though, if DUMB isn't passing as a woman, it's not weird because the prospective boyfriend might want her to know that his interest is for real. I agree with Erica that she should make sure he knows the deal, before meeting up in private. What he says about it might reveal a lot more about whether he's a safe person to date.
Also totally agree with #8. I don't see the wisdom of going down on a perfect stranger without protection. Questionable smells that might mean an infection or STD would only magnify that issue.
29
Just finished podcast 233 Dan, and loved every minute of it, from the triumph of the Louisiana tux-wearing senior to the great advice to take it slow but TAKE it. I'm a PFLAG mom who's been listening avidly ever since you started your podcast; I recommend it to every mom and dad who needs to become more comfortable with their son/daughter's sexuality. Thanks, Dan, for all you do --- for so many of us!
32
He called her a slut and he threatened her safety. She did everything right by dumping him--and then she took him back??? What on Earth would possess her to do that? He's crosses every line short of actually hitting her, and I'd wager that's only a matter of time.
33
Hey Dumb, please please write back with an update after your date! We all want to know that you had a great time.
As for his "weird" line, sounds to me like he's direct, knows what he wants and isn't afraid to share his feelings. And he got a little nervous asking you out. What is not to like? I'd take awkward and sweet over macho overconfidence any day.
Oh, I hope you write back.
As for his "weird" line, sounds to me like he's direct, knows what he wants and isn't afraid to share his feelings. And he got a little nervous asking you out. What is not to like? I'd take awkward and sweet over macho overconfidence any day.
Oh, I hope you write back.
34
@33: I wish more of Dan's advice seekers would write back. It's frustrating to have lots of stories without endings.
35
Why on earth would anyone allow someone else to use their computer? UGH - like reading someone's private diary (ok for some, I suppose).
I agree with Dan, SLUT should DTMFA as soon as possible with his scary attitude, and secondly, password-protect her computer and leave it PRIVATE. If someone else wants to "borrow" it, don't let them unless you know how to set up a separate account.
Also, setting up a Flickr account is a good idea - you can upload your pics to it and set them to be public, friends-only or completely PRIVATE.
I agree with Dan, SLUT should DTMFA as soon as possible with his scary attitude, and secondly, password-protect her computer and leave it PRIVATE. If someone else wants to "borrow" it, don't let them unless you know how to set up a separate account.
Also, setting up a Flickr account is a good idea - you can upload your pics to it and set them to be public, friends-only or completely PRIVATE.
36
@ the transgender the right thing do 1st let this guy know you're transgender work it into the conversation because if you don't then you knowingly put yourself in a possible dangerous position.. believe I know it get lonely and I'm single straight female and I'm no dog either but honesty is the best policy..
@ the guy w\ the smelly vigina that's what you get LOL.. but should have at least left her a note..
@ the guy w\ the smelly vigina that's what you get LOL.. but should have at least left her a note..
37
SLUT--DTMFAST--ADTHB (And Don't Take Him Back) freaking out over pics is just total unforgivable assholery, bordering on DTMFASTADTHB<JTBS (Leave Town Just To Be Sure)
38
SLUT should DTMFAST, but I can reassure everybody in this forum, she won't. She'll keep on making up excuses as to why she should have him in his life, even while his behavior escalates. She might even give him a few kids to traumatize before she, possibly, sees the light.
39
Every wine smells different but they all smell like wine. You ought to be able to tell the difference between an aroma that is a cousin of armpits and the smell of something pathological. That's my speculation as I have no experience with the latter. I can come from the former though.
I would have no problem telling someone I'd like to spend the next couple of hours eating their vagina and anus but that it's my preference to give the area a little sprucing up first, i.e. "it's not you, it's me." This has the added benefit of reducing the transfer of bacteria between the 2 areas.
I would have no problem telling someone I'd like to spend the next couple of hours eating their vagina and anus but that it's my preference to give the area a little sprucing up first, i.e. "it's not you, it's me." This has the added benefit of reducing the transfer of bacteria between the 2 areas.
40
@EricaP (31)
She says she's not passable. She probably doesn't look like a cis-gendered woman and won't actually need to "disclose" the obvious fact that she's trans.
She says she's not passable. She probably doesn't look like a cis-gendered woman and won't actually need to "disclose" the obvious fact that she's trans.
41
@38 I guess people who write to Dan for advice are reasonably prepared to follow that advice. Sure, there's always that other possibility. I hope SLUT reads Dan's response and this forum so she gets the idea: DTM-->FAST! And run far away from that controlling peace of... man.
To DUMB, good luck and good luck again. I hope this guy's not a creep and that you both receive something positive from the relationship that we all wish you can create. I hope you can add some more self love, trust and confidence by experiencing something wonderful.(Was it a good sandwich?)
To DUMB, good luck and good luck again. I hope this guy's not a creep and that you both receive something positive from the relationship that we all wish you can create. I hope you can add some more self love, trust and confidence by experiencing something wonderful.(Was it a good sandwich?)
42
Any man who tells a stranger, "I want a relationship with you," is a creep. Why? Because he is putting a multitude of assumptions onto the other person AND he is "filling in the blanks" when the reality is: he doesn't know anything about the other person. It is also very controlling to go out into the world and decide, "I am going to go pick up a one night stand" or "I am going to have a relationship with THAT person." Life doesn't work like that and going out and attempting to control others IS creepy. I remember in my younger days when I'd go out with my workmates to have some drinks, dance and have a good time, there'd always be some group of guys with the sole purpose, NOT to have fun and enjoy an evening out but to "get laid." It took me a while to realise that there are people THAT deluded in life and now, I wouldn't give ANY of those creeps the time of day. I'm "old" though and these are things one only learns from having lived. It was only about 3 years ago that I met a guy for coffee from a website and whilst I was looking at the clock, he asked if I wanted to go to dinner. I told him "no" but we could just go for a walk around the Thames (river). This is the funny - and creepy - part: after about 30 minutes of walking, I had to catch the train and the guy asks me if I wanted a "relationship with him" and I replied, "I don't actually know you." He got stroppy and told me he'd wasted 2 hours (total) of his life on me! That was when I laid into him and told him that he was ready, willing and able to spend money on some expensive restaurant in the middle of London, giving me false compliments, all the while trying to control a situation which was uncontrollable.
If you tell a complete stranger - even if you've just spent 2 HOURS with them that you "want a relationship" with them, then yes, you are "a creep."
Also, to the first letter writer: you already know the answer because the line, "I want a relationship with you" DOES tell you that your inner awareness does not agree with the statement. The guy doesn't know you from the man on the moon so how in the world does he know he wants to spend 20 minutes with you - or, you with him - let alone "have a relationship." Forget about the whole "trans-whatever" aspect of it, just look at it as two people who don't know each other. How many people who are self-aware at all would tell someone they don't know - or, only know briefly - that they "want a relationship" with them? Sure, throw the guy a bone IN A PUBLIC place but be careful of any words you may use that could get misconstrued by those who are mentally unstable (or clueless). Don't give him too much personal information and try to enjoy your time with the guy but stay as uncommitted as possible. Desperate people have a way of twisting the words of others, and "yes" anyone who proclaims their desire for a "relationship" with a stranger (or brief acquaintance) is "desperate" in SOME aspect of their lives.
To those want to argue or, excuse me, "debate" that point, then wait about 10 years, travel the world, have some experiences that take you out of your comfort zone and belief systems THEN come back and read my post and then decide if you want to "debate" it.
As for the woman with the photos of herself, she needs to dump the guy, obviously but the fact that she took him back in the first place tells us that she most likely enjoys the drama of it all and will only attract another person like the one she dumps. She needs to get rid of the photos for her own sake, go within and ask herself some life affirming questions.
More...
If you tell a complete stranger - even if you've just spent 2 HOURS with them that you "want a relationship" with them, then yes, you are "a creep."
Also, to the first letter writer: you already know the answer because the line, "I want a relationship with you" DOES tell you that your inner awareness does not agree with the statement. The guy doesn't know you from the man on the moon so how in the world does he know he wants to spend 20 minutes with you - or, you with him - let alone "have a relationship." Forget about the whole "trans-whatever" aspect of it, just look at it as two people who don't know each other. How many people who are self-aware at all would tell someone they don't know - or, only know briefly - that they "want a relationship" with them? Sure, throw the guy a bone IN A PUBLIC place but be careful of any words you may use that could get misconstrued by those who are mentally unstable (or clueless). Don't give him too much personal information and try to enjoy your time with the guy but stay as uncommitted as possible. Desperate people have a way of twisting the words of others, and "yes" anyone who proclaims their desire for a "relationship" with a stranger (or brief acquaintance) is "desperate" in SOME aspect of their lives.
To those want to argue or, excuse me, "debate" that point, then wait about 10 years, travel the world, have some experiences that take you out of your comfort zone and belief systems THEN come back and read my post and then decide if you want to "debate" it.
As for the woman with the photos of herself, she needs to dump the guy, obviously but the fact that she took him back in the first place tells us that she most likely enjoys the drama of it all and will only attract another person like the one she dumps. She needs to get rid of the photos for her own sake, go within and ask herself some life affirming questions.
43
"I'm almost 10 years older than you and I'm still battling my inner/giddy 13-year-old."
Dan, no need to lie about your age. You're a sexy piece of shit. Men only get better with age. Look at Anderson Cooper.
Dan, no need to lie about your age. You're a sexy piece of shit. Men only get better with age. Look at Anderson Cooper.
44
"I'm almost 10 years older than you and I'm still battling my inner/giddy 13-year-old."
Oh Dan, no need to lie about your age. You're a sexy piece of shit. Men only get better with age. Just look at Anderson Cooper.
Oh Dan, no need to lie about your age. You're a sexy piece of shit. Men only get better with age. Just look at Anderson Cooper.
45
I hope Dumb goes on that date and plays it safe. He may just be awkward, or he may be a weirdo, but I think it's worth a shot (meeting in public and maybe even having friends nearby).
The odds are >99% that it won't work out, because it's highly unlikely that the very first person who asks her out is "the one" or even "a one". However, if the date isn't a total disaster maybe it will help her get out there more and meet more people. And, there is that 0.01% probability that it could work out.
The odds are >99% that it won't work out, because it's highly unlikely that the very first person who asks her out is "the one" or even "a one". However, if the date isn't a total disaster maybe it will help her get out there more and meet more people. And, there is that 0.01% probability that it could work out.
46
I disagree with those who think a trans person needs to disclose their status to a date upfront.
I've been on dates with literally dozens of different guys that didn't work out (most of them were out of the running after a date or two; two or three lasted a month or so before we realized it wasn't working). Imagine if I'd told each of these guys a deep, dark, potentially volatile secret of mine - there would be all these random jerks out there knowing my personal business. Some of them would perhaps be bitter over me bailing on them, and decide to use their inside information against me somehow. I'll just go ahead and keep my personal stuff personal until I know someone is trustworthy, thanks - and that should go double for people whose "secret" makes them a target of violence.
My feeling is that a pre-op trans person has no obligation to disclose their status to a potential partner, especially right in the beginning...but he or she should probably do so, anyway, if it seems like things are heading to a naked place. And just to be clear, this disclosure is for the trans person's benefit (to see if the other person is going to turn homophobic and violent) more than for the benefit of the other person.
Lots of ciswomen have bodies that are "nonstandard" to varying degrees and you don't see anyone insisting that they have a long, earnest discussion of their oversized clitoris or mismatched breasts with a guy at all, let alone on the first date!
And if a transwoman is post-op, I don't see any reason for her to disclose her trans-ness, period.
I'm sure I'll get some arguments over these opinions, though. :P
I've been on dates with literally dozens of different guys that didn't work out (most of them were out of the running after a date or two; two or three lasted a month or so before we realized it wasn't working). Imagine if I'd told each of these guys a deep, dark, potentially volatile secret of mine - there would be all these random jerks out there knowing my personal business. Some of them would perhaps be bitter over me bailing on them, and decide to use their inside information against me somehow. I'll just go ahead and keep my personal stuff personal until I know someone is trustworthy, thanks - and that should go double for people whose "secret" makes them a target of violence.
My feeling is that a pre-op trans person has no obligation to disclose their status to a potential partner, especially right in the beginning...but he or she should probably do so, anyway, if it seems like things are heading to a naked place. And just to be clear, this disclosure is for the trans person's benefit (to see if the other person is going to turn homophobic and violent) more than for the benefit of the other person.
Lots of ciswomen have bodies that are "nonstandard" to varying degrees and you don't see anyone insisting that they have a long, earnest discussion of their oversized clitoris or mismatched breasts with a guy at all, let alone on the first date!
And if a transwoman is post-op, I don't see any reason for her to disclose her trans-ness, period.
I'm sure I'll get some arguments over these opinions, though. :P
47
jenesasquatch @39 Exactly! If something is "off" downstairs, the owner is usually the first to know about it. Also, I think the current trend toward mostly hairless has a lot to do with reducing odours, etc....perhaps VOICE primarily had experience with waxed models, prior to this? Just a thought...
48
@18
It's not a fetish I'd ever much about before, but jesus christ, I don't think I've ever heard of a more harmless kink. And where do you think the Greeks got that story about Narcissus....
It's not a fetish I'd ever much about before, but jesus christ, I don't think I've ever heard of a more harmless kink. And where do you think the Greeks got that story about Narcissus....
49
Concerning DUMB - I don't understand this "disclose [her] status" thing. Isn't it obvious she's trans? I agree with #40; she "lives her life predominantly as female." He called her "pretty." There's no disclosure necessary.
As for the beau's potential creepitude - almost certainly DUMB will be able to tell if he's a weirdo by date #2 at the latest. I'm rooting for ya honey, but don't be too discouraged if he ain't right in the head. Unfortunately, you're going to have a slightly larger percentage of strange, conflicted people who are attracted to you. But there are some good ones in there too. Just stay positive.
As for the beau's potential creepitude - almost certainly DUMB will be able to tell if he's a weirdo by date #2 at the latest. I'm rooting for ya honey, but don't be too discouraged if he ain't right in the head. Unfortunately, you're going to have a slightly larger percentage of strange, conflicted people who are attracted to you. But there are some good ones in there too. Just stay positive.
50
@40 - "cis" - awesome. Can we use IUPAC nomenclature now for gender? How do we handle chirality?
Why on earth would anyone allow someone else to use their computer? UGH - like reading someone's private diary (ok for some, I suppose).
Ok, time for my personal grief du-jour. My GF has what I'd like to call bad manners but other people I complain to keep mentioning boundaries. I don't use her computer, I don't go through her cellphone and I don't love it when she shoves her brokerage and bank statements in my face. We have discussed marriage and at some point those things - the latter two - do become my business and important - but we're not there yet.
She, however, seems to prefer using my computer - even when her own is right there and available. She has - right in front of me - picked up my phone and gone through my call list and phonebook. I am not sure how often she's done it when I wasn't there to call her on it. She walks in on me going to the bathroom (and will also just walk in and use it in front of me) - and no, that's not part of our (very vanilla) play. There are other even more trivial gripes (using my toothpaste/shampoo/etc. and won't put the cap back on) - little little petty things that get under my skin.
In the most recent episode, she read my email and found a swath of emails with a friend some of which are quite personal. We're not screwing around, but I am also didn't tell the GF about this friend and I don't want to explain the rather personal conversations. I feel like my ability to read the riot act over the violation is undercut by my secrecy (inadvertent) over this friend. I also feel like my GF doesn't know any better (which is better or worse, I can't decide). Just when we were turning the corner, I'm right back to wondering if it's time to toss in the towel.
And finally:
Hey Dumb, please please write back with an update after your date! We all want to know that you had a great time.
+10. I would love to hear about someone finding their perfect match!
More...
Why on earth would anyone allow someone else to use their computer? UGH - like reading someone's private diary (ok for some, I suppose).
Ok, time for my personal grief du-jour. My GF has what I'd like to call bad manners but other people I complain to keep mentioning boundaries. I don't use her computer, I don't go through her cellphone and I don't love it when she shoves her brokerage and bank statements in my face. We have discussed marriage and at some point those things - the latter two - do become my business and important - but we're not there yet.
She, however, seems to prefer using my computer - even when her own is right there and available. She has - right in front of me - picked up my phone and gone through my call list and phonebook. I am not sure how often she's done it when I wasn't there to call her on it. She walks in on me going to the bathroom (and will also just walk in and use it in front of me) - and no, that's not part of our (very vanilla) play. There are other even more trivial gripes (using my toothpaste/shampoo/etc. and won't put the cap back on) - little little petty things that get under my skin.
In the most recent episode, she read my email and found a swath of emails with a friend some of which are quite personal. We're not screwing around, but I am also didn't tell the GF about this friend and I don't want to explain the rather personal conversations. I feel like my ability to read the riot act over the violation is undercut by my secrecy (inadvertent) over this friend. I also feel like my GF doesn't know any better (which is better or worse, I can't decide). Just when we were turning the corner, I'm right back to wondering if it's time to toss in the towel.
And finally:
Hey Dumb, please please write back with an update after your date! We all want to know that you had a great time.
+10. I would love to hear about someone finding their perfect match!
51
Dryer sheets? Oh, Lordy, I hope that was a joke.
Joining the crowd asking DUMB to report back -- and good luck!
Joining the crowd asking DUMB to report back -- and good luck!
52
@40, her view of not passable may be different from this creep's view. I just would want all cards on the table in public (unless she's big & tough enough that she doesn't mind risking a fight).
@46, yes, it's for her benefit, to see if he's violent, self-hating or delusional.
Canuck @47, but apparently VOICE's one-night stand didn't know, since she was urging him to go down on her. I think it would have been a kindness to mention the funkiness. Make it about her health, not about cleanliness. He already noted that she had good hygiene.
@46, yes, it's for her benefit, to see if he's violent, self-hating or delusional.
Canuck @47, but apparently VOICE's one-night stand didn't know, since she was urging him to go down on her. I think it would have been a kindness to mention the funkiness. Make it about her health, not about cleanliness. He already noted that she had good hygiene.
54
Why in the world did SLUT take the dude back? He "threatened her safety?" Please!
The proper response to finding naked pictures of your girlfriend taken from before she was your girlfriend is, "Hot. Ever think about going back to this haircolor/shaving pattern?"
The proper response to finding naked pictures of your girlfriend taken from before she was your girlfriend is, "Hot. Ever think about going back to this haircolor/shaving pattern?"
55
cvilletop @50 People are different. Everything you mention is normal in my marriage, and has been since we were dating - farting, pissing in front of each other, reading each others' email, using each others' toothpaste/shampoo. (Do you mind if she uses your bar of soap?) So there's no Life Rule that says that she's in the wrong. She is wrong for you. She is a great find for some guy who wants to be able to leave his toothpaste cap off and not get grief about it. You don't like her very much, so dump her, and let her find the guy she's compatible with.
56
Oh, cvilletop (#50), the things you mention would definitely be a dealbreaker for me. I think it's time to have a serious sitdown -- as you mentioned, she may just not know any better, but if she is an adult, then it is high time that she learned. Your annoyance over these issues is not going to lessen with time, I fear. Best wishes.
57
Give DUMB's suitor the benefit of the doubt...just as it was DUMB's first time being asked out, it was maybe his first time doing the asking! She said she can't pass....maybe he was just super nervous, and it made him really socially awkward! Here is another one rooting for you DUMB! Seriously, give him one date before you throw the creeper label on him. He definitely might be, but then again, maybe he was just nervous. So yes, a public 1st date with an open mind, Dan was spot on.
And man, the girl with the stinky vag....I am with the others who say, "how can SHE not know?" I mean, there are times when I am not so April fresh (right after a workout, that time of the month), and I won't let a man *near* me! I have a nose like a dog, and I offend myself, lol! But someone also pointed out...there isNO good way of saying this, especially for a one night stand. I would be *devistated*. Many women, myself included, are so socialized with tuna jokes, etc, that it takes us so long to get comfortable with our bodies...wow. that should really be the job of a long term lover. Ouch!!! I have no probelmo telling hubby to hit the shower when he stinks, lol, but there is normally a good reason for it (like the gym, etc...). A funky vag is normally a sign of BV.
And yeah SLUT...run now!!
And man, the girl with the stinky vag....I am with the others who say, "how can SHE not know?" I mean, there are times when I am not so April fresh (right after a workout, that time of the month), and I won't let a man *near* me! I have a nose like a dog, and I offend myself, lol! But someone also pointed out...there isNO good way of saying this, especially for a one night stand. I would be *devistated*. Many women, myself included, are so socialized with tuna jokes, etc, that it takes us so long to get comfortable with our bodies...wow. that should really be the job of a long term lover. Ouch!!! I have no probelmo telling hubby to hit the shower when he stinks, lol, but there is normally a good reason for it (like the gym, etc...). A funky vag is normally a sign of BV.
And yeah SLUT...run now!!
58
@47 Canuck
Yes, hair makes a big difference. There is also a huge variation even with the same individual depending on what they've been up to since their last shower. The same person can be anywhere from perfumed to pleasantly female to overpowering. Hygiene above and below the equator doesn't necessarily get the same attention. People can certainly have their issues about "down there."
@52 EricaP
Definitely go with the public place for safety.
Yes, hair makes a big difference. There is also a huge variation even with the same individual depending on what they've been up to since their last shower. The same person can be anywhere from perfumed to pleasantly female to overpowering. Hygiene above and below the equator doesn't necessarily get the same attention. People can certainly have their issues about "down there."
@52 EricaP
Definitely go with the public place for safety.
59
@57 badgirl
Really? There's no way? What if the guy made it part of the action to tend to you first or even suggest showering together first? Is that too transparent?
Really? There's no way? What if the guy made it part of the action to tend to you first or even suggest showering together first? Is that too transparent?
60
I have no sense of smell. Zero. Maybe that contributes to my fearless eating out attitude. Of course, I love doing it, and I love pleasing my partner.
Even if the taste is strong, I wouldn't shy away. Giving good orgasms is one of the best things a person can do for another!
Even if the taste is strong, I wouldn't shy away. Giving good orgasms is one of the best things a person can do for another!
61
I can't decide whether Dan's age-deceit fetish is charming, like a Southern belle who is kittenishly coy about her transparently advanced age, or pathetic, like a used up, delusional gay cumrag with no idea how sad he looks.
62
I don't think taking pictures of yourself naked for your own personal use can even be called a fetish. Many women, including myself, do it. SLUT's boyfriend is an insecure, bat-shit crazy dick.
63
@46
You have a point there, and if and how a trans person chooses to disclose this is almost entirely for their own benefit. But is non-disclosure going to make them any safer, should the relationship progress to sex? There are people out there who might get violent if they feel their new crush has surreptitiously tried to infect them with gayness, and there are people who might resent feeling that they'd been....tricked. I'm not saying you're wrong, and the idea that a trans person should have to tell every single first date about this very, very personal issue is miserably unfair--especially since one of the primary issues is that he or she might be in serious physical danger if they choose the wrong course. But I think some people might be angrier for having been "led on" than if they'd found out up front. I don't think a trans person has an obligation either way, but godDAMN that must be difficult to navigate. Someone should write a book of etiquette--for both the trans person and their dates.
You have a point there, and if and how a trans person chooses to disclose this is almost entirely for their own benefit. But is non-disclosure going to make them any safer, should the relationship progress to sex? There are people out there who might get violent if they feel their new crush has surreptitiously tried to infect them with gayness, and there are people who might resent feeling that they'd been....tricked. I'm not saying you're wrong, and the idea that a trans person should have to tell every single first date about this very, very personal issue is miserably unfair--especially since one of the primary issues is that he or she might be in serious physical danger if they choose the wrong course. But I think some people might be angrier for having been "led on" than if they'd found out up front. I don't think a trans person has an obligation either way, but godDAMN that must be difficult to navigate. Someone should write a book of etiquette--for both the trans person and their dates.
64
@55 - I don't mind sharing the soap, shampoo or toothpaste - and the farting. I do have a little Felix Unger in me: I roll up the tube from the bottom, and I put the cap back on. I don't love it when someone ignores that - you want to mangle the tube, be my guest and mangle your own damn tube. I didn't say there was a Life Rule that it had to be a certain way (my way), but I do believe in common courtesy...I don't presume to straighten out her toothpaste tube. I've had relationships with people who differ on those issues quite successfully - by being courteous and aware of one another.
Of course, those were the silly examples at the trivial end of the spectrum. I'd have appreciated a substantive response on the snooping vs. secrecy, which is the real issue.
Of course, those were the silly examples at the trivial end of the spectrum. I'd have appreciated a substantive response on the snooping vs. secrecy, which is the real issue.
65
59...Lol...I guess that is ok....but I would get the hint!!! ;). That is a pretty gentle delivery though.
And 61, hahaha, I think its pretty cute *grin*. I always fess up about my true age. Mainly just because I look a-mazing, lol! But I am still under 40. I reserve the right to change my mind when I hit the big 4-0! when people start guessing fff--instead of tthhhhi--, well, I might start taking Dan's route and hit 29 and holding!
And 61, hahaha, I think its pretty cute *grin*. I always fess up about my true age. Mainly just because I look a-mazing, lol! But I am still under 40. I reserve the right to change my mind when I hit the big 4-0! when people start guessing fff--instead of tthhhhi--, well, I might start taking Dan's route and hit 29 and holding!
66
@64 cvilletop
Snooping is a problem. It's an obvious sign of distrust/insecurity. Being secretive is a sign of being untrustworthy. You need not tell each other absolutely everything but you do need to have some self-awareness of the level of trust that you have with each other. Going through your phone like that is a huge red flag. Password protect it and then see how she reacts. Or just be direct with her about your concerns.
Snooping is a problem. It's an obvious sign of distrust/insecurity. Being secretive is a sign of being untrustworthy. You need not tell each other absolutely everything but you do need to have some self-awareness of the level of trust that you have with each other. Going through your phone like that is a huge red flag. Password protect it and then see how she reacts. Or just be direct with her about your concerns.
67
I suffered through a toxic box situation once (think challenging European cheese), fearing to give offense. Then she commented on the smell of my mouth. The ensuing conversation led her to realize she had a medical issue. I was too embarrassed to say anything, then she was embarrassed that I hadn't.
69
@9 maybe for HIV but not for herpes, syphilis, gonorrhoea, etc. If something smells alarmingly off, it usually is. Caveat emptor.
70
@64 Cvilletop -- I'm going to agree with 66. You both seem to have some trust issues. If she's snooping, that's a problem. If you're being secretive, that's a problem.
Frankly what you've said about your gf doesn't sound too much like snooping to me as she's doing it right in front of you -- she's not doing it behind your back secretively. I'd guess she is just one of those really open, nosy parker types --- my family is full of them -- where everyone knows everyone else's business. It's more like they're really curious than snooping.
My bf and I do most of the things you're complaining about, so they certainly aren't inherently offensive or lacking in common courtesy. We both have access to each other's emails, phones, etc. and are free to look at them. I don't think either of us have, but we simply don't care about it--we're very open books. However, as someone else pointed out, these boundaries although not "wrong" or lacking in common courtesy do seem to be incompatible as you prefer other privacy and personal space boundaries. You have to talk to her about these issues if you expect her to be able to respect your boundaries as you two don't share the same perspective on these issues. If she can't respect them once you've discussed them clearly with her, then that's a bigger problem.
Frankly, the thing I see the most disturbing is your secretiveness about this friend. Is the friend purely platonic? Have you been with him/her before sexually? Is it a woman? If it's all innocent, it shouldn't be a big deal, but it does sound like you're purposely hiding something to me and that is usually the start of a big deal (like an emotional affair?).
From the gist of your very short blurb, I get the impression that you want to break up with your gf (possibly start something with this hidden "friend") and are just looking for an excuse. If you don't want to be with your gf, for whatever reason, just acknowledge it, accept it and break things off.
More...
Frankly what you've said about your gf doesn't sound too much like snooping to me as she's doing it right in front of you -- she's not doing it behind your back secretively. I'd guess she is just one of those really open, nosy parker types --- my family is full of them -- where everyone knows everyone else's business. It's more like they're really curious than snooping.
My bf and I do most of the things you're complaining about, so they certainly aren't inherently offensive or lacking in common courtesy. We both have access to each other's emails, phones, etc. and are free to look at them. I don't think either of us have, but we simply don't care about it--we're very open books. However, as someone else pointed out, these boundaries although not "wrong" or lacking in common courtesy do seem to be incompatible as you prefer other privacy and personal space boundaries. You have to talk to her about these issues if you expect her to be able to respect your boundaries as you two don't share the same perspective on these issues. If she can't respect them once you've discussed them clearly with her, then that's a bigger problem.
Frankly, the thing I see the most disturbing is your secretiveness about this friend. Is the friend purely platonic? Have you been with him/her before sexually? Is it a woman? If it's all innocent, it shouldn't be a big deal, but it does sound like you're purposely hiding something to me and that is usually the start of a big deal (like an emotional affair?).
From the gist of your very short blurb, I get the impression that you want to break up with your gf (possibly start something with this hidden "friend") and are just looking for an excuse. If you don't want to be with your gf, for whatever reason, just acknowledge it, accept it and break things off.
71
@64, I'm with jenesasquatch @66. If her reading your email and your texts feels like she's snooping, that's because you want to keep part of your life separate. Which is fine. For you.
My husband and I live a more open life with each other. (At least that is the goal. A few months did go by before he told me he had seen an escort, and, yes, I was upset at the betrayal of trust.)
What's the status of your snooping/secret-keeping? Did you blow up at her? Did you explain yourself? Did the whole thing just get swept under the rug?
I don't think one of you is more right than the other; I think it's just an area of incompatibility, and you shouldn't try to change her. I don't agree with riley @56, who says "it is high time that she learned" to keep her nose out of your business. If you scold her about this, she'll just get more secretive about her snooping. Find someone who trusts you, and let her find someone she trusts and who is happy to live a less guarded life.
My husband and I live a more open life with each other. (At least that is the goal. A few months did go by before he told me he had seen an escort, and, yes, I was upset at the betrayal of trust.)
What's the status of your snooping/secret-keeping? Did you blow up at her? Did you explain yourself? Did the whole thing just get swept under the rug?
I don't think one of you is more right than the other; I think it's just an area of incompatibility, and you shouldn't try to change her. I don't agree with riley @56, who says "it is high time that she learned" to keep her nose out of your business. If you scold her about this, she'll just get more secretive about her snooping. Find someone who trusts you, and let her find someone she trusts and who is happy to live a less guarded life.
73
Dan, I just wanted to say that this was very well phrased:
"all those inexperienced boyfriends who react negatively to a vagina's natural, healthy odor because they didn't get the "spice" part of the "sugar and spice" memo."
Especially given the source -- a gay man who has announced that he'd actually kill himself before going down on a woman -- that was very well done.
"all those inexperienced boyfriends who react negatively to a vagina's natural, healthy odor because they didn't get the "spice" part of the "sugar and spice" memo."
Especially given the source -- a gay man who has announced that he'd actually kill himself before going down on a woman -- that was very well done.
74
Frankly, the thing I see the most disturbing is your secretiveness about this friend.
Well, it's inadvertent. I didn't bother password protecting my email or deleting mails or going to any lengths to hide it. The friendship is platonic and I have no desire to get involved. She's married and I don't really want any part of that. This was a sin of omission on my part, and I feel a minor one. I don't feel obligated to report every contact with everyone.
We have, however, talked about relationship issues (she's met her husband's girlfriend - and theirs is not an open relationship), and I've discussed some of mine. I have not shared that with my girlfriend and I do not want to - this other woman is merely a sounding board. But, I feel defensive and I don't like that I feel that way.
It did not get swept under the rug - I pointed out that I thought the cell phone behavior was nosey/rude, right then and there. I have not checked up on that or password protected it since. I did not blow up about this email episode, but it's fresh. I pointed out that I didn't really like it. I am not going to defend or make excuses for having emails or meeting with this friend, but I have explained it.
Well, it's inadvertent. I didn't bother password protecting my email or deleting mails or going to any lengths to hide it. The friendship is platonic and I have no desire to get involved. She's married and I don't really want any part of that. This was a sin of omission on my part, and I feel a minor one. I don't feel obligated to report every contact with everyone.
We have, however, talked about relationship issues (she's met her husband's girlfriend - and theirs is not an open relationship), and I've discussed some of mine. I have not shared that with my girlfriend and I do not want to - this other woman is merely a sounding board. But, I feel defensive and I don't like that I feel that way.
It did not get swept under the rug - I pointed out that I thought the cell phone behavior was nosey/rude, right then and there. I have not checked up on that or password protected it since. I did not blow up about this email episode, but it's fresh. I pointed out that I didn't really like it. I am not going to defend or make excuses for having emails or meeting with this friend, but I have explained it.
75
Um. To all y'all who don't think disclosing trans-status is necessary because he must already know, it is possible that she judges herself more harshly than she does cis folk, that for her any masculine qualities remind her of her pre-transition self and feel like "male bits". Loads of cis women don't "pass" completely, but sometimes it's hard to see that as a trans woman.
Also, it is not her obligation to disclose anything, but also, Google "trans panic". If she has it on record that he already knew, he can't try to pull that out. It is her call, and I hope it turns out to be a non-issue, but you can't blame a lady for worrying about the very real possibility that she will be murdered.
Also, it is not her obligation to disclose anything, but also, Google "trans panic". If she has it on record that he already knew, he can't try to pull that out. It is her call, and I hope it turns out to be a non-issue, but you can't blame a lady for worrying about the very real possibility that she will be murdered.
76
Telling a lady her business doesn't smell right is probably preaching to the choir. Women know their own scent and know if it's off (due to a myriad of reasons from post-period funk to having been cooped up in tights all day) and she was probably hoping that, in the heat of the moment, you just wouldn't notice or care.
Believe me, we know.
Some folks like it when the mossy cavern smells a little extra earthy.
Some won't go spelunking unless the territory is shower fresh.
Ladies, if you know you're going to be getting busy and your girlybits haven't had time to breathe all day, be kind and excuse yourself for a quick wet wipe in the bathroom. It'll set your mind at ease about any possible funk, and he or she won't be put in the position VOICE has been been wracked with guilt over all these years.
Believe me, we know.
Some folks like it when the mossy cavern smells a little extra earthy.
Some won't go spelunking unless the territory is shower fresh.
Ladies, if you know you're going to be getting busy and your girlybits haven't had time to breathe all day, be kind and excuse yourself for a quick wet wipe in the bathroom. It'll set your mind at ease about any possible funk, and he or she won't be put in the position VOICE has been been wracked with guilt over all these years.
77
Woah - no way Dan Savage is 35. I remember listening to his radio show when I was 23-24 and I'm 38 now. Dan, I doubt you had your own radio call in show when you were 21.
78
"I keep a box of dryer sheets next to my bed to combat vaginal odour, when necessary."
Me, one of those rear-view-mirror Christmas-tree pendants.
Me, one of those rear-view-mirror Christmas-tree pendants.
79
"SLUT should DTMFA as soon as possible with his scary attitude, and secondly, password-protect her computer and leave it PRIVATE. If someone else wants to "borrow" it, don't let them unless you know how to set up a separate account."
I think people, DS included, are missing the real point -- she *wants* boyfriends, or randoms, to find the pics. This is what makes them sexy to her in the first place.
She password-protects them, their allure vanishes in thin air.
I think people, DS included, are missing the real point -- she *wants* boyfriends, or randoms, to find the pics. This is what makes them sexy to her in the first place.
She password-protects them, their allure vanishes in thin air.
81
Chicago Girl: There are people out there who might get violent if they feel their new crush has surreptitiously tried to infect them with gayness, and there are people who might resent feeling that they'd been....tricked.
I totally agree. But, if I were trans, I'd still go the "disclose it only to someone who's about to see me naked, and make sure the disclosure is in public" route. I personally feel that having one person (who might not even mind!) knowing this about me would be the lesser of two evils...especially since disclosing right up front could get me beaten up, anyway.
It is a horribly difficult situation and I'm grateful for my cis privilege.
And jeez, everyone, cut Cvilletop a break. Wanting to keep a conversation to yourself (even if it's with someone of the opposite sex - GASP! - isn't necessarily about secrecy, it's about privacy.
I'm the more private person in my relationship. My boyfriend hasn't rummaged through my phone or anything, but he'll blatantly look over my shoulder while I'm reading or writing emails...and, yes, if I'm discussing a friend's personal life, I'll shield the screen and ask him not to read. I think it would be pretty shitty of me to give him the go-ahead, actually: "Look, sweetie! Christine had anal sex with her boyfriend the other night and she'd always sworn she would never, ever do that but she kind of enjoyed it and now she's having a bit of an identity crisis! Wanna see?"
I totally agree. But, if I were trans, I'd still go the "disclose it only to someone who's about to see me naked, and make sure the disclosure is in public" route. I personally feel that having one person (who might not even mind!) knowing this about me would be the lesser of two evils...especially since disclosing right up front could get me beaten up, anyway.
It is a horribly difficult situation and I'm grateful for my cis privilege.
And jeez, everyone, cut Cvilletop a break. Wanting to keep a conversation to yourself (even if it's with someone of the opposite sex - GASP! - isn't necessarily about secrecy, it's about privacy.
I'm the more private person in my relationship. My boyfriend hasn't rummaged through my phone or anything, but he'll blatantly look over my shoulder while I'm reading or writing emails...and, yes, if I'm discussing a friend's personal life, I'll shield the screen and ask him not to read. I think it would be pretty shitty of me to give him the go-ahead, actually: "Look, sweetie! Christine had anal sex with her boyfriend the other night and she'd always sworn she would never, ever do that but she kind of enjoyed it and now she's having a bit of an identity crisis! Wanna see?"
82
Absolutely correct, perversecowgirl -- cville's post was not so much about who puts the cap on the toothpaste as it was about basic boundaries, ESPECIALLY before one is married. My engineer boyfriend completely has the ability to hack into my email, but he doesn't, because he and I respect each other's boundaries.
83
@81/82 - yes, it's about setting boundaries, but not everyone has to set those boundaries in the same place.
Me, I tell my friends (and my lovers) that I tell my husband everything, so they don't tell me secrets I can't share with him. That's another approach, but it's equally valid.
In cvilletop's case, they are figuring each other out. Sounds like it's going well: he told her how he felt, and explained the odd emails she found. That should reinforce her trust in him, and her knowledge that he wants some privacy. If she likes, trusts, and respects him enough to stick with his expressed boundaries, then they will do great together. If not, that will also probably become apparent soon.
Me, I tell my friends (and my lovers) that I tell my husband everything, so they don't tell me secrets I can't share with him. That's another approach, but it's equally valid.
In cvilletop's case, they are figuring each other out. Sounds like it's going well: he told her how he felt, and explained the odd emails she found. That should reinforce her trust in him, and her knowledge that he wants some privacy. If she likes, trusts, and respects him enough to stick with his expressed boundaries, then they will do great together. If not, that will also probably become apparent soon.
84
Also, props to cvilletop for putting his relationship out there for us to discuss, while not getting defensive as people like me dissected or misinterpreted it.
85
Thanks 81 & 82 - I do wonder if this does fit into the category of just fundamental personality difference as EricaP suggests.
I am now worrying that she will dig around in my computer history to find this thread...and since it's not something I want her to see/find that way (she is not a reader), then I feel like I've got to scrub my history. Or not post in the first place. Yes, I'm quite familiar with private browsing.
I am now worrying that she will dig around in my computer history to find this thread...and since it's not something I want her to see/find that way (she is not a reader), then I feel like I've got to scrub my history. Or not post in the first place. Yes, I'm quite familiar with private browsing.
86
I am SLUT and it is amazing all these opinions from people with so many assumptions.
I took the pictures for myself only. Period.
No one else has seen them (except my now ex).
The only lie in my letter is that I took him back after breaking up with him. I thought I would get a more honest answer that way.
He is not a bad man. I am friends with the man now and have a much better understanding why he was so upset and why he felt he needed to look through my things in the first place. I also realized he just was not right for me nor me for him.
Thanks for your response Dan....and thanks to all of you too (I guess) for your opinions
I took the pictures for myself only. Period.
No one else has seen them (except my now ex).
The only lie in my letter is that I took him back after breaking up with him. I thought I would get a more honest answer that way.
He is not a bad man. I am friends with the man now and have a much better understanding why he was so upset and why he felt he needed to look through my things in the first place. I also realized he just was not right for me nor me for him.
Thanks for your response Dan....and thanks to all of you too (I guess) for your opinions
88
The bedside dryer sheets to combat vag/other odor is an interesting idea, but I wonder how they're introduced into the proceedings. "You know what I think is totally hot? Running dryer sheets all over your genitals. Oh yeah."
jill
http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.co…
jill
http://inbedwithmarriedwomen.blogspot.co…
89
To DUMB: I'm not trans, however I went out on a date with a guy that said pretty much the same thing - he was interested in a relationship with me. 19 years later we are still together and the relationship is good. So take the precautions, go for it, relax, and have fun.
90
Women's vaginas are self cleaning. Thats why we have no need for those so called "feminine hygiene" products. Vaginas also have a variety of smells and tastes that vary from woman to woman, and are based on hormonal and even dietary changes. So there is no real way to say what a "normal" vagina smells like.....
That said, NO vagina should smell like something that is "passed its expiration date". If it smells like a vagina in any of its beautiful forms, eat up! If it smells like something crawled up in there and is rotting away, I think it is safe to say that something is wrong.
Dan did a good job, it sounds like vaginosis. And yes, I think she would have noticed and probably shouldn't have asked for oral. However, women are taught to fear their vaginas and not to look, touch, smell, taste themselves, so it is understandable that a woman may not realize there is a problem. Maybe she didn't and in that case something should be said. Yeah, it may be awkward but she needs to see a doctor.
That said, NO vagina should smell like something that is "passed its expiration date". If it smells like a vagina in any of its beautiful forms, eat up! If it smells like something crawled up in there and is rotting away, I think it is safe to say that something is wrong.
Dan did a good job, it sounds like vaginosis. And yes, I think she would have noticed and probably shouldn't have asked for oral. However, women are taught to fear their vaginas and not to look, touch, smell, taste themselves, so it is understandable that a woman may not realize there is a problem. Maybe she didn't and in that case something should be said. Yeah, it may be awkward but she needs to see a doctor.
91
Woah, @61 - I read Dan's age comment as completely tongue-in-cheek and I'm amazed it's even being discussed in the comments. "delusional gay cumrag"? Really?
92
@85 cvilletop
Yes, they always find out. Especially if you are an honest person. Hope for the best and plan for the worst. Don't post if you aren't prepared for her finding out.
@86 levsmom26
You aren't alone. Lot's of folks have masturbated in the mirror. Please be careful.
Yes, they always find out. Especially if you are an honest person. Hope for the best and plan for the worst. Don't post if you aren't prepared for her finding out.
@86 levsmom26
You aren't alone. Lot's of folks have masturbated in the mirror. Please be careful.
93
Why would you want to be friends with someone like that SLUT? And please do share with us what his reasons were that you're so understanding about?
As for the smelly vagina issue... I am convinced this is more a matter of personal taste, no pun intended. I have a good friend who was dating a male friend of mine and he came to me with the "omg she smells how do I tell her? Yes even after a shower!" dilemma. Meanwhile, another male friend of mine who I know is equally picky about pussy was going down on her all the time with no questions asked or complaints at all. Some odors just don't hit it for everyone and it doesn't mean she has BV necessarily. BV is itchy and painful. You know when you have it. YOU can smell you don't smell right.
As for the smelly vagina issue... I am convinced this is more a matter of personal taste, no pun intended. I have a good friend who was dating a male friend of mine and he came to me with the "omg she smells how do I tell her? Yes even after a shower!" dilemma. Meanwhile, another male friend of mine who I know is equally picky about pussy was going down on her all the time with no questions asked or complaints at all. Some odors just don't hit it for everyone and it doesn't mean she has BV necessarily. BV is itchy and painful. You know when you have it. YOU can smell you don't smell right.
94
Also, @77: It's a running joke that picked up steam when Dan started complaining on the Savage Lovecast about his incorrect (actually correct when he was making most of the complaints, though it may have been briefly incorrect) age being listed on Wikipedia.
95
Maybe I'm prude (?) but I find the idea of asking for oral, especially on a ONS, really weird. I don't want a guy I have to ask like it's some favour. I want someone who is enthusiastic and into it and I don't want someone I barely know doing something that personal. Fucking isn't personal, for me anyway. I can fuck anybody but eating pussy now that's personal. That's just not something I expect nor would beg for on a first encounter and I'd find it strange any woman would. OTOH part of the reason I won't ask if I want to gague a guy's natural enthusiasm/proclivity for it.
Oh and if you let her blow you first, you suck.
Oh and if you let her blow you first, you suck.
96
SLUT needs to get rid of that guy ASAP. He sounds both like a complete tool and just plain dangerous.
97
You lost me there wendykh. Do you want to be eaten on the first night in bed or not? All sex is personal. Anal requires trust that someone isn't going to damage you but oral? If I thought she wasn't going to let me go down on her I wouldn't get into bed. No way.
98
Spot on Dan, as usual. Don't know how I would have overcome my Catholic upbringing without your column. I've been a reader for about 16 years. You should be proud of the fact that you got me through my teens and early twenties with your realistic advice.
99
Cvilletop -- I think it's interesting that you call it "inadvertently secretive". Perhaps I'm reading into this too much, but I find your word choice telling. There are plenty of things I don't tell my fiance, but not because I'm trying to hide them but because it simply didn't occur to me to share it with him. Or perhaps some things that were private for other reasons (i.e. a friend's secret that doesn't impact our relationship). However, I'd never call any of those things "inadvertently secretive". The fact that you did suggests to me that there is something going on--for some reason you feel that there is something secretive about this exchange with your married female friend.
Now, I'm not saying it's a big bad thing -- that you're cheating or anything -- but that it speaks very loudly to me that at the very least you're not comfortable with the boundaries in your relationship. I also generally do think that when you're heavily emotionally investing in someone outside of your relationship, especially when they're opposite sex (or same sex if you're gay), you're playing with fire. It can be very easy to wander down the emotional affair path before realizing that you crossed a line a ways back.
Now, you're not married so it's a different bag when you're gf/bf, but I can also say that I think a lot of people would be uncomfortable with their gf/bf investing a lot in an opposite sex friend to such an extent that you don't feel comfortable at least discussing generalities of such discussions with your gf/bf -- when you feel that you can share things with such a friend that you don't feel comfortable sharing with a serious bf/gf. If you were casually dating or it was a newer relationship, fine, but if it's serious enough that you're considering marriage, this would be a problem for me (and I think a lot of people too). Frankly, for me, that would be a huge red flag and a sign that we probably aren't meant to be together.
Here's an interesting article on emotional affairs -- it does a better job of explaining this dynamic. http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/a…
More...
Now, I'm not saying it's a big bad thing -- that you're cheating or anything -- but that it speaks very loudly to me that at the very least you're not comfortable with the boundaries in your relationship. I also generally do think that when you're heavily emotionally investing in someone outside of your relationship, especially when they're opposite sex (or same sex if you're gay), you're playing with fire. It can be very easy to wander down the emotional affair path before realizing that you crossed a line a ways back.
Now, you're not married so it's a different bag when you're gf/bf, but I can also say that I think a lot of people would be uncomfortable with their gf/bf investing a lot in an opposite sex friend to such an extent that you don't feel comfortable at least discussing generalities of such discussions with your gf/bf -- when you feel that you can share things with such a friend that you don't feel comfortable sharing with a serious bf/gf. If you were casually dating or it was a newer relationship, fine, but if it's serious enough that you're considering marriage, this would be a problem for me (and I think a lot of people too). Frankly, for me, that would be a huge red flag and a sign that we probably aren't meant to be together.
Here's an interesting article on emotional affairs -- it does a better job of explaining this dynamic. http://lifestyle.msn.com/relationships/a…
100
Um, yeah, I've had boyfriends with "pictures for their own use" too. If you have them, and can't be honest about why you have them, then you should be dumped.
Someone who has had their "safety threatened" would be more specific.
You can have your cake and eat it too. But if you're lying to do it, you have no sympathy from me.
Someone who has had their "safety threatened" would be more specific.
You can have your cake and eat it too. But if you're lying to do it, you have no sympathy from me.
101
@95 "Oh and if you let her blow you first, you suck."
Um, not for me! I'll go down on a guy at the drop of a hat, 'cause it's fun!
@97 I think she meant that she doesn't ask for it on a first date -- she seemed interested in finding out the guy's unprompted level of enthusiasm, so you and she would probably get along fine (hypothetically).
Um, not for me! I'll go down on a guy at the drop of a hat, 'cause it's fun!
@97 I think she meant that she doesn't ask for it on a first date -- she seemed interested in finding out the guy's unprompted level of enthusiasm, so you and she would probably get along fine (hypothetically).
102
Deary SLUT, please do yourself a favor and store those pictures on a seperate harddrive or flashdrive that you can hide or destroy as necessary.
I used to fix other peoples computers and there will come a day when you have to take your computer in to be fixed. Somebody like me will tell you that the harddrive cannot be fixed (and that would be true) but that doesn't mean that I can't see and copy all of the pictures off of your harddrive before handing it back to you.
With a seperate harddrive you can keep your personal stuff at home or safely hidden away when that computer will be out of your sight.
I used to fix other peoples computers and there will come a day when you have to take your computer in to be fixed. Somebody like me will tell you that the harddrive cannot be fixed (and that would be true) but that doesn't mean that I can't see and copy all of the pictures off of your harddrive before handing it back to you.
With a seperate harddrive you can keep your personal stuff at home or safely hidden away when that computer will be out of your sight.
103
#101, right there with ya, Erica. I'll go down on a guy, easy, but I have to trust him to let him go down on me.
104
A girlfriend who likes to take naked pictures of herself? What a terrible fetish! next she'll be telling me she enjoys giving blowjobs and cooking me steaks! Oh the humanity!
105
@Frederica Bimble (#42): I think you're over-analysing. People can mean all sorts of things when they say 'relationship'. If I heard "I want a relationship" from someone I was on a first date with, I'd take it as "I'm a little drunk, I'm totally feeling this, we need to hang out together at LEAST a couple more times and see if this is going somewhere".
In this context, and assuming she's accurate when she says that she doesn't pass, I'd probably take it to mean "I'm not a tranny-chaser just after a quick hookup, I'm a genuine guy, so give me a chance, 'k?"
In this context, and assuming she's accurate when she says that she doesn't pass, I'd probably take it to mean "I'm not a tranny-chaser just after a quick hookup, I'm a genuine guy, so give me a chance, 'k?"
106
@101 EricaP
Yes and no and holy crap! there it is again @103. It seems contradictory to want the offer but think it's too personal to let it happen. Do you feel the same way? Is it too personal? This is a shocking development in my understanding of women.
Wanting to be offerred and to not have to ask --I get that. (and hypothetically...oh never mind)
Yes and no and holy crap! there it is again @103. It seems contradictory to want the offer but think it's too personal to let it happen. Do you feel the same way? Is it too personal? This is a shocking development in my understanding of women.
Wanting to be offerred and to not have to ask --I get that. (and hypothetically...oh never mind)
108
SLUT, expect guys to freak out over your having nude photos of yourself easily accessible if you're in a closed relationship. It's a basic assumption they're easily accessible so you can flirt or cheat quickly. I don't find that sort of assumption to be wrong.
What I do find wrong is him threatening bodily harm and losing his shit completely. Somebody threatens you, and is serious, DUMP THEM and DONT GO BACK. Have a backbone!
Also, is the fetish that you have to take the photos? How about including your bf in this, and letting him know you have this fetish? Many guys would love it. Just a thought, and you get to keep your photos in the open.
What I do find wrong is him threatening bodily harm and losing his shit completely. Somebody threatens you, and is serious, DUMP THEM and DONT GO BACK. Have a backbone!
Also, is the fetish that you have to take the photos? How about including your bf in this, and letting him know you have this fetish? Many guys would love it. Just a thought, and you get to keep your photos in the open.
109
I am 55 and still feel like a giddy 13 year old when I am on my way to see my girlfriend of over 6 months now.
110
If your instincts tell you a date is a creep, chances are he is a creep. Trust instinct when it rings warning bells. When it doesn't, try to engage your brain before lust takes it over.
111
Smelly Vag either has a serious problem or her eater/lover has not a clue. Vag's smell a whole lot of different ways from funky to sweaty to fishy to salivary inducing tang at the back of the tongue....but expired as in rotted fish? Not unless something is wrong!
I don't understand how you can be so intimate you are eating pussy while she moans in joy but you can't just ask her if there might be a problem. I have had plenty of girlfriends tell me to hit the showers before hitting them and even order me to the bathroom to "clean up with soap" before that long awaited blowjob. (I always used her roomates face towel to dry off).
The description described is probably pretty nasty and loverboy licker should first get himself checked out for the clap or other oral STD. It is NOT that hard to get an STD from eating pussy. The reason it is not so common is that most normal people get a whiff of crotch rot and they retract the tongue into their mouth. That said it is very, very obvious most of the time. I am not talking about a pussy that just doesn't taste "fresh." Sweaty balls is certainly not a reason to avoid teabagging so stanky pussy is a challenge and certainly no reason not to dive in. Hell, the ideal woman gets some pretty nasty taking spunk into he mouth so the very least to do is return the favor. However, as a general rule if it smells like rotted fish and makes your eyes water it is probably a good idea to get a medical opinion sooner, not later (and save the oral after about a week of antibiotics). But if it just tastes like nasty tang mixed with sweat and salty secretions then be a man and deal with it! Yummmy!!!!!
I usually reflexively support the man but SLUT's rendition of her ex-boyfriend is the essence of douchebag. Glad you saw the light!
As for our "Crying Game" tranny, she/he/it should go on the date, not wear underwear, and pull a Basic Instinct at the restaraunt. It sounds like his "relationship" comment was directed at the Trannyness and was tantamount to telling a prospective employer that you are interested in working for the company for the long hall- if things work out. Stop reading to much into everything a prospect says. He was probably more nervious than you so cut some slack- but by all means follow all the safety rules. Good Luck! You will know how well it works when you uncross your legs....
More...
I don't understand how you can be so intimate you are eating pussy while she moans in joy but you can't just ask her if there might be a problem. I have had plenty of girlfriends tell me to hit the showers before hitting them and even order me to the bathroom to "clean up with soap" before that long awaited blowjob. (I always used her roomates face towel to dry off).
The description described is probably pretty nasty and loverboy licker should first get himself checked out for the clap or other oral STD. It is NOT that hard to get an STD from eating pussy. The reason it is not so common is that most normal people get a whiff of crotch rot and they retract the tongue into their mouth. That said it is very, very obvious most of the time. I am not talking about a pussy that just doesn't taste "fresh." Sweaty balls is certainly not a reason to avoid teabagging so stanky pussy is a challenge and certainly no reason not to dive in. Hell, the ideal woman gets some pretty nasty taking spunk into he mouth so the very least to do is return the favor. However, as a general rule if it smells like rotted fish and makes your eyes water it is probably a good idea to get a medical opinion sooner, not later (and save the oral after about a week of antibiotics). But if it just tastes like nasty tang mixed with sweat and salty secretions then be a man and deal with it! Yummmy!!!!!
I usually reflexively support the man but SLUT's rendition of her ex-boyfriend is the essence of douchebag. Glad you saw the light!
As for our "Crying Game" tranny, she/he/it should go on the date, not wear underwear, and pull a Basic Instinct at the restaraunt. It sounds like his "relationship" comment was directed at the Trannyness and was tantamount to telling a prospective employer that you are interested in working for the company for the long hall- if things work out. Stop reading to much into everything a prospect says. He was probably more nervious than you so cut some slack- but by all means follow all the safety rules. Good Luck! You will know how well it works when you uncross your legs....
112
Longtime fan of DS and want to know whether he has ever covered these two topics:
1. Single Dads (or any Dads) rearing sexually healthy and responsible young women;
2. Sex trafficking: Dan has advised some readers to make use of the services of "economically priced, conveniently located sex workers." Not sure whether he has ever covered in this circumstance whether said worker is in the business of his/her own free will or is slave to some nefarious trafficker, pimp, etc.
Google searching for Dan's opinons on these two topics haven't turned up much.
1. Single Dads (or any Dads) rearing sexually healthy and responsible young women;
2. Sex trafficking: Dan has advised some readers to make use of the services of "economically priced, conveniently located sex workers." Not sure whether he has ever covered in this circumstance whether said worker is in the business of his/her own free will or is slave to some nefarious trafficker, pimp, etc.
Google searching for Dan's opinons on these two topics haven't turned up much.
113
@106 - I, like many women, had an early bad experience receiving oral. In my case, I was held down and assaulted. The guy, a good friend of mine, thought he was doing me a favor, giving me this great experience. In fact, it meant that I refused all offers of oral for the next ten years.
I have since come around... but I still think that as far as sex acts with strangers go, I feel most comfortable when I'm giving him a blow job (my clothes still on), then intercourse (or blow job without my clothes), then me pegging him, then him going down on me, and then him fucking my ass.
(Obviously, that doesn't account for all permutations, but it gives a sense of the vulnerability I feel when a person's face is near my crotch.
A. it reminds me of the original assault.
B. I worry about my odor/taste.
C. I worry about farting inadvertently.
D. I worry that I'm supposed to be headed towards orgasm, when that's not very likely to happen.
That's just me, and probably TMI, but you did ask.
I have since come around... but I still think that as far as sex acts with strangers go, I feel most comfortable when I'm giving him a blow job (my clothes still on), then intercourse (or blow job without my clothes), then me pegging him, then him going down on me, and then him fucking my ass.
(Obviously, that doesn't account for all permutations, but it gives a sense of the vulnerability I feel when a person's face is near my crotch.
A. it reminds me of the original assault.
B. I worry about my odor/taste.
C. I worry about farting inadvertently.
D. I worry that I'm supposed to be headed towards orgasm, when that's not very likely to happen.
That's just me, and probably TMI, but you did ask.
114
To play devil's advocate, the conclusions that SLUT's boyfriend jumped to weren't necessarily anything ridiculously improbable.
1) Girlfriend keeps naked pictures of herself, but didn't see fit to tell boyfriend -- nor to involve him in the process, if he is to believe it is an ongoing fetish. Not such a huge leap from "she's doing something sexual that doesn't involve me and not telling me about it" to "She's hiding something."
2) Yes, cameras have timers, but people do take photos of each other, too. It's not a wholly unreasonable first reaction that somebody may have been behind the lens. (Especially if the framing and the facial expressions are any good. Self-timer shots are a bitch and a half to get right. Yeah, I'll bet she throws away most of them.)
3) Some people look at pix of themselves, but a whole lot of others share. Again, not a completely irrational conclusion to jump to. "To whom I was sending them" sounds like he thought she was still using them in the stereotypical fashion -- that is, maybe to cheat on him.
Now, he did any number of things really badly. a) Five seconds perusal of the file properties would tell him that the pictures predated him, in which case he has no call to be bent out of shape, even if there had been someone behind the camera.
b) not liking the fetish even after he supposedly accepted it as the alternate explanation.
c) Threatening her safety was a complete deal-breaker, and I hope she read him the Riot Act for that when she broke up with him.
1) Girlfriend keeps naked pictures of herself, but didn't see fit to tell boyfriend -- nor to involve him in the process, if he is to believe it is an ongoing fetish. Not such a huge leap from "she's doing something sexual that doesn't involve me and not telling me about it" to "She's hiding something."
2) Yes, cameras have timers, but people do take photos of each other, too. It's not a wholly unreasonable first reaction that somebody may have been behind the lens. (Especially if the framing and the facial expressions are any good. Self-timer shots are a bitch and a half to get right. Yeah, I'll bet she throws away most of them.)
3) Some people look at pix of themselves, but a whole lot of others share. Again, not a completely irrational conclusion to jump to. "To whom I was sending them" sounds like he thought she was still using them in the stereotypical fashion -- that is, maybe to cheat on him.
Now, he did any number of things really badly. a) Five seconds perusal of the file properties would tell him that the pictures predated him, in which case he has no call to be bent out of shape, even if there had been someone behind the camera.
b) not liking the fetish even after he supposedly accepted it as the alternate explanation.
c) Threatening her safety was a complete deal-breaker, and I hope she read him the Riot Act for that when she broke up with him.
115
I think creepy guy just wanted to make it clear that he wanted an actual relationship, not just sex, because a lot of guys are embarrassed to be attracted to trans-women and so aren't open to a relationship.
116
Many women are shy about receiving oral sex - my first gf made me wait quite a while, and I was dying to give it a go! It's about self consciousness and intimacy...My last gf (and I was still not that experienced with women at all) did have a funky taste which I did not enjoy at all - I did consider saying something but she was poly and had a long term partner plus another lover who both clearly did not think there was a problem, so I kept my mouth shut. We weren't together that long so it quickly became moot.
I agree that sometimes it IS about personal taste and compatibility - her taste had some awful checmical reaction with my taste buds and nose.
And no, not all women know when they have an issue - neither I nor my current bf knew that I had BV recently, and he is a regular and enthusiastic giver of head.
I agree that sometimes it IS about personal taste and compatibility - her taste had some awful checmical reaction with my taste buds and nose.
And no, not all women know when they have an issue - neither I nor my current bf knew that I had BV recently, and he is a regular and enthusiastic giver of head.
117
@KL (99)
So, we had a lengthy conversation about this wherein I provided full disclosure.
The nature of the relationship with the OW is entirely in the vein of "some things that were private for other reasons (i.e. a friend's secret that doesn't impact our relationship)".
My feelings of "inadvertently secretive" had to do with the way this came out: she read my email and said, "you're emailing this woman a lot - is there something you want to tell me". There was a very strong "gotcha" aspect to it. Sadly/pathetically, I think a lot of my reaction was to the j'accuse tone of the way this came out.
In discussing this with my GF, I explained that I had not talked a lot about it because much of the content of the conversations involved being relationship sounding boards for one another (OW and me). My GF has her own sounding boards (including a therapist and an EX) with whom she shares much of our private relationship. I don't ask who they all are or read her emails; she did disclose that she'd shut down the friendship with the EX eventually (though she did not tell me this).
I think, given that OW is in fact Another Woman, and that while I have no interest (and I made a big point of that with this particular friend when she disclosed her own relationship woes), she might, it's probably time to taper off this relationship.
Thanks to all for the feedback.
So, we had a lengthy conversation about this wherein I provided full disclosure.
The nature of the relationship with the OW is entirely in the vein of "some things that were private for other reasons (i.e. a friend's secret that doesn't impact our relationship)".
My feelings of "inadvertently secretive" had to do with the way this came out: she read my email and said, "you're emailing this woman a lot - is there something you want to tell me". There was a very strong "gotcha" aspect to it. Sadly/pathetically, I think a lot of my reaction was to the j'accuse tone of the way this came out.
In discussing this with my GF, I explained that I had not talked a lot about it because much of the content of the conversations involved being relationship sounding boards for one another (OW and me). My GF has her own sounding boards (including a therapist and an EX) with whom she shares much of our private relationship. I don't ask who they all are or read her emails; she did disclose that she'd shut down the friendship with the EX eventually (though she did not tell me this).
I think, given that OW is in fact Another Woman, and that while I have no interest (and I made a big point of that with this particular friend when she disclosed her own relationship woes), she might, it's probably time to taper off this relationship.
Thanks to all for the feedback.
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@113 EricaP
I'm so sorry that happened to you. For the life of me I can't imagine deciding on my own to hold someone down and do anything to them while thinking that I was doing them a favor.
Thank you very much for sharing such a personal experience. As you know I am well aware of what it's like to be sexually assaulted. I know how long that stays with you.
It never occurred to me that someone could do that to a woman. I understand your reluctance to receive oral as a result. But I get the sense that maybe your reasons B, C, and D are probably why others have some reluctance. I'll remember that.
For the record ladies lots of us men:
A. Don't assault women, we adore you and love the process of discovering what pleases you and then giving that to you.
B. Find your odor/taste to be intoxicating, so much so that as I mentioned above it hardly qualifies as sex without that experience of you.
C. Expect you to fart occasionally during sex. Everyone does it. We really don't care if you do.
D. Going down on you is supposed to feel good for you, not obligate you to perform an orgasm for us. Every lady's pussy is different and they don't all like the same stimulation. We get that. Please, please let us explore with you.
And seriously, EricaP? TMI? Look who you're talking to! :-)
I'm so sorry that happened to you. For the life of me I can't imagine deciding on my own to hold someone down and do anything to them while thinking that I was doing them a favor.
Thank you very much for sharing such a personal experience. As you know I am well aware of what it's like to be sexually assaulted. I know how long that stays with you.
It never occurred to me that someone could do that to a woman. I understand your reluctance to receive oral as a result. But I get the sense that maybe your reasons B, C, and D are probably why others have some reluctance. I'll remember that.
For the record ladies lots of us men:
A. Don't assault women, we adore you and love the process of discovering what pleases you and then giving that to you.
B. Find your odor/taste to be intoxicating, so much so that as I mentioned above it hardly qualifies as sex without that experience of you.
C. Expect you to fart occasionally during sex. Everyone does it. We really don't care if you do.
D. Going down on you is supposed to feel good for you, not obligate you to perform an orgasm for us. Every lady's pussy is different and they don't all like the same stimulation. We get that. Please, please let us explore with you.
And seriously, EricaP? TMI? Look who you're talking to! :-)
119
@117 cvilletop: I just wanted to pop in and say I feel the same way you do about privacy issues. It drives me crazy when my husband tries to read emails over my shoulder, I lock the door when I use the bathroom, I would never, never open his mail, or emails, or scroll through his phone. He doesn't ever scroll through my phone, but one of his friends did once when we were all at dinner (apparently this guy's wife had gotten an email from an old friend, and he was hyper-paranoid), it was done as a "joke," but that sort of thing is so invasive, seriously, I shut my computer and say "stop reading my emails!" when he looks over my shoulder, so you can't say he's confused about it! As far as your "opposite sex sounding board" friend goes, I think we all know when things are heading in a direction they shouldn't, and also when (unwanted) interest is cropping up in either ourselves or the other party, and if we're wise, that's when we start "tapering off," as you say. Women tend to talk about that really personal stuff with their girlfriends, so if a woman is talking to you about it, yeah, that might indicate she's interested, or at least enjoying the male attention. But no, fwiw, I don't think there's anything wrong with the level of privacy you've said you like.
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@118 You're a catch, jenesasquatch! Seriously, you have a really great attitude toward your partner. And yes, women (okay, some women) have been told for so many years by advertisers that we are stinky and in need of high-test cleaning products that I think we get a little self-conscious about it. In my opinion, anyway.
122
DUMB,
I don't think that what the sandwich man said is necessarily a psycho line. Sounds more like an awkward well-intentioned line to me. Like.. he wanted to indicate that he didn't just want a one-night-stand with a tranny.. but no matter who you're trying to pick up, there's no standard acceptable way to express "I am not just trying to get into your pants, I would like to have conversations and get to know you and possibly, if mutually agreed upon, get into your pants on a regular basis" without sounding weird. Even though, most people will agree that that's a good thing.
I hope that you have a great date! Be careful, but try not to let paranoia destroy ya! :)
I don't think that what the sandwich man said is necessarily a psycho line. Sounds more like an awkward well-intentioned line to me. Like.. he wanted to indicate that he didn't just want a one-night-stand with a tranny.. but no matter who you're trying to pick up, there's no standard acceptable way to express "I am not just trying to get into your pants, I would like to have conversations and get to know you and possibly, if mutually agreed upon, get into your pants on a regular basis" without sounding weird. Even though, most people will agree that that's a good thing.
I hope that you have a great date! Be careful, but try not to let paranoia destroy ya! :)
123
when my mom turned 78, at her party SHE gave ME one of those novelty birthday candles which read "39" and officially gave me permission to be that age until MY 78th. Just like Jack Benny. (And now you can guess how long I have been 39.)So Dan, "you go, girl!"
124
I am gonna add my vote in too, for another one of the girls who needs to be more comfortable with a man to have him go down on me than to fuck me. And I will also agree with EricaP, that fuck, a blowjob is only slightly more intimate then a handshake, lol! But a hell of a lot more fun. I will definitely want to be pretty comfortable with a man before I let him head south if I am to relax and enjoy it.
Ironically, THE only exception to the rule was a one night stand. If the man was a good kisser, and had a soft and gentle mouth....mainly it was *because* I really didn't give a shit too much, and we were both just in to maximize pleasure...hell, if he offered, and I thought he would be good....game on! I mean, even if I didn't come, if he was not too rough, it still felt good! I would never have had the balls to ask though. like the other women mentioned...too much worry and insecurity built up over our "canned hams dropped from a great distance". Thanks Dan. Lol!
Ironically, THE only exception to the rule was a one night stand. If the man was a good kisser, and had a soft and gentle mouth....mainly it was *because* I really didn't give a shit too much, and we were both just in to maximize pleasure...hell, if he offered, and I thought he would be good....game on! I mean, even if I didn't come, if he was not too rough, it still felt good! I would never have had the balls to ask though. like the other women mentioned...too much worry and insecurity built up over our "canned hams dropped from a great distance". Thanks Dan. Lol!
125
To 'meeting in public place and tell others your whereabouts,' add: 'show driver's licenses upon first meeting before anything else.'
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@125
Asking for his last name and home address is totally shady! He may also be trying to exercise a measure of safety... he is also on a first date with a stranger.
Asking for his last name and home address is totally shady! He may also be trying to exercise a measure of safety... he is also on a first date with a stranger.
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@117 - It would seem too bad to have to give up a friendship of long standing (and many friendships of that sort are really better for or more important to the participant than the outside relationship which precipitates the tapering off). But if you really are detecting possible interest, that's quite different. It would just be a shame if your girlfriend succeeded in guilting you into the tapering off with the, "I gave up MY OSSB!" line.
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The first letter is sweet, I hope she goes for it and tells us how it went! Even if it doesn't work out with this particular guy, it will be good practice in dating and finding out which of her instincts to follow.
I do second (or third) the suggestion that she consider having a conversation about her gender status if it looks like they'll be getting naked, as a matter of her own safety. I'm not trans but my girlfriend and several other friends are, and their experience is some guys can respond badly and/or violently. And (not so) DUMB may be underestimating how well she passes.
Re the conversation about vaginal smell - it's totally possible to have BV and not know, unfortunately. Many women do not have the itchyness, and some do but don't realize why, and the smell, while distinct, is not always strong. (Thankfully it's also not particularly dangerous to have, unlike chlamydia or gonorrhea.) I think the letter writer would have been doing the woman a favor if he'd told her, but I can understand his hesitation. I'd have a hard time hearing that from a one-night stand - I'd be grateful later, but it probably wouldn't do much for the rest of the date.
I do second (or third) the suggestion that she consider having a conversation about her gender status if it looks like they'll be getting naked, as a matter of her own safety. I'm not trans but my girlfriend and several other friends are, and their experience is some guys can respond badly and/or violently. And (not so) DUMB may be underestimating how well she passes.
Re the conversation about vaginal smell - it's totally possible to have BV and not know, unfortunately. Many women do not have the itchyness, and some do but don't realize why, and the smell, while distinct, is not always strong. (Thankfully it's also not particularly dangerous to have, unlike chlamydia or gonorrhea.) I think the letter writer would have been doing the woman a favor if he'd told her, but I can understand his hesitation. I'd have a hard time hearing that from a one-night stand - I'd be grateful later, but it probably wouldn't do much for the rest of the date.
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Regarding stinky girl crotch: one more possibility is a forgotten, left in tampon, gone beyond the reach of girl hands and needing a GYN to be removed. While not an infection or medical condition (yet), those can get very stinky. Though embarrassing to see a GYN about, trust me, this happens to a lot of women at one time or another and yours will not be the first one they've seen. Leaving them unattended CAN potentially bring infection, so best to get it seen to asap. Once removed, revolting crotch stank is eliminated. So speak up boys & girls, if you smell something wrong downtown.
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@118 - I think almost everyone thinks that they are a good person. I think many rapes happen because the guy thinks that this particular woman needs his touch/tongue/cock, whatever she says.
This particular assault started as tickling, then moved on to oral sex. Many people hold someone down to tickle them, and ignore cries of "Stop, Stop." I didn't like the tickling, but he ignored me then (and I was used to being tickled against my will, from my older brother). So when he continued to ignore my protestations to stop going down on me, it took a while for me to get loud enough and struggle enough to persuade him to stop.
It goes without saying that in my house, children are taught that no means no, and if a tickle-recipient wants the tickling to continue after all, they had better be prepared to say so.
This particular assault started as tickling, then moved on to oral sex. Many people hold someone down to tickle them, and ignore cries of "Stop, Stop." I didn't like the tickling, but he ignored me then (and I was used to being tickled against my will, from my older brother). So when he continued to ignore my protestations to stop going down on me, it took a while for me to get loud enough and struggle enough to persuade him to stop.
It goes without saying that in my house, children are taught that no means no, and if a tickle-recipient wants the tickling to continue after all, they had better be prepared to say so.
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@118 - also, good luck convincing women en masse to trust men en masse to give them positive oral sex experiences... For better or worse, each man I see is still going to have to demonstrate to me that he is open-minded, non-judgmental about farts/odor/lack-of-orgasms, and enthusiastic about giving oral. My life experiences (for me) trump your assurances (to me) about the GGGness of guys neither of us has met yet.
132
@131: I guess that's another one for the vive la difference file. I don't know a man who would refuse a first-date blow job. And the date is probably optional.
And this in spite of the vulnerability - all those teeth!
And this in spite of the vulnerability - all those teeth!
133
If a boyfriend/partner/parent, etc comes upon something by snooping, basically violating your privacy, then I consider that information to be obtained by illegal means. This couldn't be used against you in court and you shouldn't have to answer for it outside of court.
I think she already knew the answer but just needed to hear it from someone only slightly older but much wiser.
I think she already knew the answer but just needed to hear it from someone only slightly older but much wiser.
134
Just weighing in on the oral sex issue...I would gladly accept cunnilingus on a first date or one-nighter (but I wouldn't ask for it and probably wouldn't orgasm).
Conversely, blowjobs feel way personal to me and I won't go there until I know I like the guy. In addition to how intimate the act feels, it's also pretty problematic for me (insane gag reflex, a mouth so small I can barely fit the head of an average-size cock past my teeth) so I'm not doing it unless I know the guy is worth the jaw pain.
Oh, and EricaP, good for you on your strict no-means-no policy with your kids. I have a huge thing about being tickled, thanks to relatives who wouldn't stop even when I was screaming "no" and getting the dry heaves. A person's "no" should always be respected...it's weird how many people don't understand this.
Conversely, blowjobs feel way personal to me and I won't go there until I know I like the guy. In addition to how intimate the act feels, it's also pretty problematic for me (insane gag reflex, a mouth so small I can barely fit the head of an average-size cock past my teeth) so I'm not doing it unless I know the guy is worth the jaw pain.
Oh, and EricaP, good for you on your strict no-means-no policy with your kids. I have a huge thing about being tickled, thanks to relatives who wouldn't stop even when I was screaming "no" and getting the dry heaves. A person's "no" should always be respected...it's weird how many people don't understand this.
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@132 Seems reasonable to conclude that the average blowjob from a stranger is a lot more enjoyable than the average pussy-licking from a stranger.
@134 People learn many lessons from tickling and other games of dominance. I just want my kids to learn that their words and preferences are taken seriously in our house.
@134 People learn many lessons from tickling and other games of dominance. I just want my kids to learn that their words and preferences are taken seriously in our house.
136
I know I'm late to the party, DUMB, but give this a shot! And please post back with how it went.
I've seen many pictures of transwomen who, while not passable as females, were still attractive from a fairly objective perspective. Perhaps the fact that their faces retained an innate maleness was what made them look sexy to me. I've never dated a transwoman myself, but I have been friends with several over the years. I would place myself one point away from the exact middle of the Kinsey scale (toward the heterosexual side) and androgyny is not unattractive to me.
Just another perspective!
I've seen many pictures of transwomen who, while not passable as females, were still attractive from a fairly objective perspective. Perhaps the fact that their faces retained an innate maleness was what made them look sexy to me. I've never dated a transwoman myself, but I have been friends with several over the years. I would place myself one point away from the exact middle of the Kinsey scale (toward the heterosexual side) and androgyny is not unattractive to me.
Just another perspective!
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@131 EricaP
I'm not trying to convince you (or women en masse) to go about finding trust in a different way. You should follow your instincts and do what feels safe for you.
I'm not trying to convince you (or women en masse) to go about finding trust in a different way. You should follow your instincts and do what feels safe for you.
139
@138, Thanks - I was responding to this: "Please, please let us explore with you." I wish life were different, both for you and for women who feel vulnerable in bed.
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Could also be something less serious, like a yeast infection. Or even just that she took a quick shower and didn't get down there. Since shampoo, conditioner, body wash, soap, lotion, and deodorant are all scented, it can be easy to make it seem like you had a long, full shower, when really you just threw some shampoo on your head and ran soap over your torso. I speak as a college student who seems to constantly get the shower with no hot water....
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@118 jenasasquatch : you sound just like my current partner. Yummy !
@135 EricaP : I'm so sorry you've been sexually abused too... How awful it is that most of the decent women I love reading on the net end up disclosing that they've been abused. Anyway, props to you for not letting that horrible experience get in the way of enjoying an active sex life !
@86 SLUT : by all means keep your naked pictures of yourself and dump any idiot who'll make an issue about it. It's your body, nobody has more right to take a picture of it than you, right ?
For those who say that naked pictures of oneself are "a sure sign that one is a cheater" : yeah, right. In my country, teenagers tell one another that a woman who enjoys sex and says so "is a sure sign that she's a cheater". All those "sure sign that female is a cheater" recipes are sentences made to oppress us women and to shame us into not having a total control over our own sexuality. Forget it !
@135 EricaP : I'm so sorry you've been sexually abused too... How awful it is that most of the decent women I love reading on the net end up disclosing that they've been abused. Anyway, props to you for not letting that horrible experience get in the way of enjoying an active sex life !
@86 SLUT : by all means keep your naked pictures of yourself and dump any idiot who'll make an issue about it. It's your body, nobody has more right to take a picture of it than you, right ?
For those who say that naked pictures of oneself are "a sure sign that one is a cheater" : yeah, right. In my country, teenagers tell one another that a woman who enjoys sex and says so "is a sure sign that she's a cheater". All those "sure sign that female is a cheater" recipes are sentences made to oppress us women and to shame us into not having a total control over our own sexuality. Forget it !
147
I've either got nothing to add, or so much that I don't have the time to type it, but for what it's worth, I appreciate both EricaP's and jenesasquatch's comments tremendously, in part for their thoughtfulness, and in part for the courage and vulnerability they show by opening themselves up in this forum.
And cvilletop, I'm impressed that you responded to others' comments by having a discussion with your girlfriend, and by taking another look at your relationship with the OW and reconsidering it.
Kudos to you all.
(badgirl, Backyard Bombardier, perverse cowgirl also get my appreciation)
And cvilletop, I'm impressed that you responded to others' comments by having a discussion with your girlfriend, and by taking another look at your relationship with the OW and reconsidering it.
Kudos to you all.
(badgirl, Backyard Bombardier, perverse cowgirl also get my appreciation)
148
nocutename: thanks!
sissoucat: For those who say that naked pictures of oneself are "a sure sign that one is a cheater" : yeah, right.
Yeah, that's so stupid. I've taken naked pics of myself, too...not to masturbate to, but to see how I looked from different angles, see how I stacked up to actual pinup girls and porn stars, etc. Trying to see my body the way a man might.
Some of these pictures turned out horribly, but some didn't, and I kept those good ones so I could occasionally look at them and remind myself that (from certain angles, at least) I'm totally hot. :D
I do not, and will not, send these pictures to anyone else. It's my personal rule never to give any guy a blatantly sexy picture where I'm identifiable (so, nothing with my face or tattoos in it) and I'd rather tempt a guy with something more subtle, anyway. Even my boyfriend doesn't have my naked pics on his hard drive - I've shown some to him on my computer but that's it.
All those "sure sign that female is a cheater" recipes are sentences made to oppress us women and to shame us into not having a total control over our own sexuality.
BINGO. The only "sure sign" that anyone is a cheater is...that they're fucking someone else. :D
sissoucat: For those who say that naked pictures of oneself are "a sure sign that one is a cheater" : yeah, right.
Yeah, that's so stupid. I've taken naked pics of myself, too...not to masturbate to, but to see how I looked from different angles, see how I stacked up to actual pinup girls and porn stars, etc. Trying to see my body the way a man might.
Some of these pictures turned out horribly, but some didn't, and I kept those good ones so I could occasionally look at them and remind myself that (from certain angles, at least) I'm totally hot. :D
I do not, and will not, send these pictures to anyone else. It's my personal rule never to give any guy a blatantly sexy picture where I'm identifiable (so, nothing with my face or tattoos in it) and I'd rather tempt a guy with something more subtle, anyway. Even my boyfriend doesn't have my naked pics on his hard drive - I've shown some to him on my computer but that's it.
All those "sure sign that female is a cheater" recipes are sentences made to oppress us women and to shame us into not having a total control over our own sexuality.
BINGO. The only "sure sign" that anyone is a cheater is...that they're fucking someone else. :D
150
Thanks for the support sissoucat & nocutename. I agree with perversecowgirl@148 (and have the same policy re photos & identifiability), but I would amend the end line to "...that they're fucking someone else and lying about it."
151
@147 nocutename
Thanks for the compliment. I for one would like to see what you type even if it's long. I see you here quite a bit and always look for your comments (and the others you mentioned).
EricaP is much more courageous than I am. After 34 years I'm still not going to talk details about my assault even when I feel anonymous. I've told a therapist about it but even that was almost impossible for me.
EricaP you are my hero!
Thanks for the compliment. I for one would like to see what you type even if it's long. I see you here quite a bit and always look for your comments (and the others you mentioned).
EricaP is much more courageous than I am. After 34 years I'm still not going to talk details about my assault even when I feel anonymous. I've told a therapist about it but even that was almost impossible for me.
EricaP you are my hero!
152
awww, nocutename, thanks!
And perversecowgirl, lol, the more I read from you, the more I think I would like to go have a beer with you! I do the same think, just to see what angles suit me best, and what outfits I look sexiest in. Except for one thing, I DO send mine out to a select few guys I know will be appreciative, lol! I lost a shit-ton of weight as an adult, and guess my old fragile ego likes the positive feedback. Although pics of me don't sexually arouse myself, I like the idea of them arousing others. Nothing hotter then providing stroke material for certain gentleman I am aquainted with! *grin* The guys would get in more trouble for having them then I would for taking them though, so I feel safe via their paranoia, lol!! ;)
And perversecowgirl, lol, the more I read from you, the more I think I would like to go have a beer with you! I do the same think, just to see what angles suit me best, and what outfits I look sexiest in. Except for one thing, I DO send mine out to a select few guys I know will be appreciative, lol! I lost a shit-ton of weight as an adult, and guess my old fragile ego likes the positive feedback. Although pics of me don't sexually arouse myself, I like the idea of them arousing others. Nothing hotter then providing stroke material for certain gentleman I am aquainted with! *grin* The guys would get in more trouble for having them then I would for taking them though, so I feel safe via their paranoia, lol!! ;)
153
Hi Dan, Love your article, I liked your response for VOICE in your apr 7 colunm, I just wanted to pass along a system that served me well in my gash gourging days, always probe aroused pussy digitally first, nonchalantly smell your fingers when your partner is not aware, thus after analysing aromas on fingers you can decided wheteher or not to dive downtown, If your partner persist, non verbally place tainted finger under her nose, she should recognize her own aroma and understand your hesitation. This has worked for me on several occasions and is a great non verbal approach that should lead to those hot erotic showers , keep up the good work Dan, you are a saint!
154
@151 - thanks for the nice compliment, but I think it just shows that not all non-consensual sex belongs in one box. I mean, it was unpleasant enough to turn me off cunnilingus for ten years, but at the time I was mostly upset that my best friend (his girlfriend) blamed me for the incident. I've been (sorta) assaulted this year, too, in the sense of guys going for anal when I said they couldn't. But an insult from a colleague stings a lot more... Life is pain, as Wesley says. When I get hurt, I tell myself that I choose to run certain risks to live the life I want. Mostly things go fine, and I've learned I can cope even when life throws me something awful. That sounds jinxy, whoops -- knock on wood.
155
Why do you lie about your age, Dan when it's public info? Pretty stupid of you.
I just looked it up: you were born Oct. 7, 1964 which makes you 46.
I just looked it up: you were born Oct. 7, 1964 which makes you 46.
156
Why would you lie about your age, Dan when it's public info? Makes you look stupid, not to mention like a man with little integrity. Ouch!
You owe your readers an apology, big time. Real men don't lie, so grow some.
You owe your readers an apology, big time. Real men don't lie, so grow some.
157
Real men figure out if they have already posted before they screw up and post almost the same words again.
158
Just an opinion, but my guess is that the sort of person who would get violent about finding out that their date is trans, is also the same sort of person who would feel severely set-up, if it took several dates and escalating emotions before the big reveal. In other words, waiting is likely to backfire when it's one of these dangerous types, even if the talk happens well before the clothes come off.
I say reveal early and often. Even if you aren't talking violence, if they are going to dump you when they find out, the sooner that happens the better, for all concerned. You will waste less time exploring potential relationships that are fundamentally doomed, and by the same token they are less likely to feel misled by you. Better to weed through the hopeless cases quickly. And hey, by revealing early you might even find someone who is actively looking for what you have to offer. (Which, to me, is what it sounds like sandwich-maker-guy meant, however awkwardly it came out. Best of luck there!)
I say reveal early and often. Even if you aren't talking violence, if they are going to dump you when they find out, the sooner that happens the better, for all concerned. You will waste less time exploring potential relationships that are fundamentally doomed, and by the same token they are less likely to feel misled by you. Better to weed through the hopeless cases quickly. And hey, by revealing early you might even find someone who is actively looking for what you have to offer. (Which, to me, is what it sounds like sandwich-maker-guy meant, however awkwardly it came out. Best of luck there!)
159
I'm a thirty-year old straight guy, and I date other (mostly) straight women. In the past year, i've done a lot of dating. It made my heart feel sad that DUMB wanted to get rid of her giddy-inner-13-year-old. I wish I still felt that way about having a relationship! Hold on to it as long as you can!
161
@42
What a joke! If you think being trans has nothing to do with it then maybe you got a little confused on your "worldly journeys".
As a trans person who is only attracted to trans people, I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE that it is extremely difficult to find one of the few people who falls into your field of love vision, and that's before you even start the compatibility/are they into me game. Combine that with American views on transfolk(I challenge you to find one source of media in which we are not streetwalkers or comic relief), and the stigma around being trans becomes very obvious! Parents don't teach their kids to date trans people like they do cisgender people, there's no memo sent out on this stuff, so people will say weird things.
Honestly, you sound like you're channeling a lot of angst towards men in general.
What a joke! If you think being trans has nothing to do with it then maybe you got a little confused on your "worldly journeys".
As a trans person who is only attracted to trans people, I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE that it is extremely difficult to find one of the few people who falls into your field of love vision, and that's before you even start the compatibility/are they into me game. Combine that with American views on transfolk(I challenge you to find one source of media in which we are not streetwalkers or comic relief), and the stigma around being trans becomes very obvious! Parents don't teach their kids to date trans people like they do cisgender people, there's no memo sent out on this stuff, so people will say weird things.
Honestly, you sound like you're channeling a lot of angst towards men in general.
162
Frederica [@42],
"Any man who tells a stranger, 'I want a relationship with you,' is a creep."
I don't want to debate you, and I've been around the block several decades already, I just want to disagree.
I still get several crushes a year. These sometimes come on fast and strong. I'm not claiming I'm not a creep, but I am saying there are lot more crush-susceptibles out there, and the majority of them are not creeps. Declaring your love for someone after a couple of hours is rarely successful, but these love-giddy people definitely feel it, regardless how ungrounded it is. Foolish, but not necessarily creepy. Don't flee the situation, remain the master. You're heavily experienced, and you're not love-whacked.
"Any man who tells a stranger, 'I want a relationship with you,' is a creep."
I don't want to debate you, and I've been around the block several decades already, I just want to disagree.
I still get several crushes a year. These sometimes come on fast and strong. I'm not claiming I'm not a creep, but I am saying there are lot more crush-susceptibles out there, and the majority of them are not creeps. Declaring your love for someone after a couple of hours is rarely successful, but these love-giddy people definitely feel it, regardless how ungrounded it is. Foolish, but not necessarily creepy. Don't flee the situation, remain the master. You're heavily experienced, and you're not love-whacked.
163
Sorry, I can't say I'm much help for your questions, but considering you're a Seattle icon, mentioning that you thought he may be a weirdo in your very popular forum, maybe extremely hurtful and damaging to the target who most likely read it. Your work here is overall great but even weirdos deserve empathy.
I actually love and are fascinated with weirdos.
I actually love and are fascinated with weirdos.
166
I say reveal [being trans] early and often. Even if you aren't talking violence, if they are going to dump you when they find out, the sooner that happens the better, for all concerned.
I see what you're saying, avast2006, but again: for many trans people their status is a secret - and who wants a bunch of people you barely know being privy to your secrets?
Like, let's say your penis got cut off in a freak accident and surgeons couldn't save it (you are a dude, aren't you? I think you've indicated this in other comments). When would you tell people? Would you ask someone out and tag the invite with "...by the way, I don't have a penis. Just so you know."
And then, let's say the person you asked out was disgusted by the idea that your genitals didn't match your gender presentation and turned you down...and then told all his or her friends "Yeah, see that guy? HE HAS NO DICK" and everyone gawked and snickered whenever they saw you.
Now, if you hadn't disclosed your missing penis upfront (as it were :P), that person might have accepted your invitation and maybe you'd end up getting a bit serious and there'd be an awkward reveal later on. Or, maybe you'd end up having one date that was so boring you'd never want to see each other again, and you'd go your separate ways without this person having personal information to use against you.
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with telling this stuff right away; it just seems like waiting would ultimately save a trans person a whole lot of problems. The "big reveal" will be awkward no matter when it's done; if you wait a bit, a lot of dates won't even end up working out and the reveal won't need to be made at all. Or maybe I'm just near-impossible to get along with and everyone else on the planet has fallen into a lifelong relationship with the first or second person they ever dated. All I know is I've been on dozens of totally "meh" first dates and I'm glad I didn't bring up a bunch of intimate shit to those people. :P
And hey, by revealing early you might even find someone who is actively looking for what you have to offer.
It's a complicated thing...on one hand, if you're a chick with a penis and you want to be in a relationship, you do kind of have to find someone who's okay with a chick who has a penis.
The thing is, for many (but not all; I don't want to stereotype here) transwomen, their penis is the bane of their existence - the source of much emotional anguish and body dysmorphia and the thing keeping society from seeing them as "real" women. You can probably see why someone like this shouldn't date someone who specifically wants a woman with a dick...they're attracted to the thing she literally wants to cut off.
So it's not always as simple as finding someone who "likes what you have to offer"...more like finding someone who accepts what you have to offer but would be fine if you ultimately got it surgically removed. :P
More...
I see what you're saying, avast2006, but again: for many trans people their status is a secret - and who wants a bunch of people you barely know being privy to your secrets?
Like, let's say your penis got cut off in a freak accident and surgeons couldn't save it (you are a dude, aren't you? I think you've indicated this in other comments). When would you tell people? Would you ask someone out and tag the invite with "...by the way, I don't have a penis. Just so you know."
And then, let's say the person you asked out was disgusted by the idea that your genitals didn't match your gender presentation and turned you down...and then told all his or her friends "Yeah, see that guy? HE HAS NO DICK" and everyone gawked and snickered whenever they saw you.
Now, if you hadn't disclosed your missing penis upfront (as it were :P), that person might have accepted your invitation and maybe you'd end up getting a bit serious and there'd be an awkward reveal later on. Or, maybe you'd end up having one date that was so boring you'd never want to see each other again, and you'd go your separate ways without this person having personal information to use against you.
I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with telling this stuff right away; it just seems like waiting would ultimately save a trans person a whole lot of problems. The "big reveal" will be awkward no matter when it's done; if you wait a bit, a lot of dates won't even end up working out and the reveal won't need to be made at all. Or maybe I'm just near-impossible to get along with and everyone else on the planet has fallen into a lifelong relationship with the first or second person they ever dated. All I know is I've been on dozens of totally "meh" first dates and I'm glad I didn't bring up a bunch of intimate shit to those people. :P
And hey, by revealing early you might even find someone who is actively looking for what you have to offer.
It's a complicated thing...on one hand, if you're a chick with a penis and you want to be in a relationship, you do kind of have to find someone who's okay with a chick who has a penis.
The thing is, for many (but not all; I don't want to stereotype here) transwomen, their penis is the bane of their existence - the source of much emotional anguish and body dysmorphia and the thing keeping society from seeing them as "real" women. You can probably see why someone like this shouldn't date someone who specifically wants a woman with a dick...they're attracted to the thing she literally wants to cut off.
So it's not always as simple as finding someone who "likes what you have to offer"...more like finding someone who accepts what you have to offer but would be fine if you ultimately got it surgically removed. :P
167
re: 166 - unless someone is in the entertainment industry and has a huge budget to pay for the technology, their biological gender is NOT a secret. i spent a few years socializing in that community, and i think i saw one person who was passable.
anecdotally, it seemed to me (disclaimer!) that many transgendered seem offended when someone is attracted to the transgendered. sadly. because those would be the people who want to date them.
anecdotally, it seemed to me (disclaimer!) that many transgendered seem offended when someone is attracted to the transgendered. sadly. because those would be the people who want to date them.
168
With regards to SLUT and the smelly vag.....I may be a prude but I can't help but think why in the heck would want to going down on a girl the first night you met her? It was a one night stand...you knew nothing about her, where she has been, etc... I hope you at least had the common sense to use a condom.
BTW, in the future, use the finger test before heading south of the border. I guess you can also call this the scratch and sbiff test...but the put is to smell your fingers before you even think about heading south. By doing this you can manage her expectations, can't blame a girl for thinking she is going to get some oral stimulation if you spend the time bringing your head down there :-)
BTW, in the future, use the finger test before heading south of the border. I guess you can also call this the scratch and sbiff test...but the put is to smell your fingers before you even think about heading south. By doing this you can manage her expectations, can't blame a girl for thinking she is going to get some oral stimulation if you spend the time bringing your head down there :-)
169
...i spent a few years socializing in [the trans] community, and i think i saw one person who was passable.
Funny, I hang out in those circles, too, and I know plenty of trans folk who could (and do) pass without question. Not to mention, neither of us have any idea how many trans people we see in the street every day who are passing perfectly...because, duh, if they pass then we don't know they're trans.
Not every male-bodied person who wants to transition is 6'3" with linebacker shoulders, you know...and not every female-bodied person who wants to transition is tiny and elfin with an hourglass figure. There's a lot of variance within what we think of as "male" and what we think of as "female" .
Hell, my boyfriend and I have gotten catcalled as "lesbians" when we've kissed or held hands on the street - and he wasn't even crossdressed at the time.
Funny, I hang out in those circles, too, and I know plenty of trans folk who could (and do) pass without question. Not to mention, neither of us have any idea how many trans people we see in the street every day who are passing perfectly...because, duh, if they pass then we don't know they're trans.
Not every male-bodied person who wants to transition is 6'3" with linebacker shoulders, you know...and not every female-bodied person who wants to transition is tiny and elfin with an hourglass figure. There's a lot of variance within what we think of as "male" and what we think of as "female" .
Hell, my boyfriend and I have gotten catcalled as "lesbians" when we've kissed or held hands on the street - and he wasn't even crossdressed at the time.
170
p.s. Circe - I'm Canadian, and over here we don't pay for medical care...which includes hormone therapy for trans people. Gender reassignment surgery didn't used to be covered under our health care but this has recently changed.
So if you're Canadian and transitioning, I don't think there's much "expensive technology" to pay for. Electrolysis can be done in a bunch of small, affordable batches. Binders cost maybe $30. Packers start at $20. The big stuff is covered. Perhaps this is why I've known a lot of fully passable trans folk and you haven't.
So if you're Canadian and transitioning, I don't think there's much "expensive technology" to pay for. Electrolysis can be done in a bunch of small, affordable batches. Binders cost maybe $30. Packers start at $20. The big stuff is covered. Perhaps this is why I've known a lot of fully passable trans folk and you haven't.
171
@166: I can see my way clear to agreeing with that. If you are at the end of a first date and it's pretty obvious that a second date isn't in the cards, there is no point in revealing your status to someone that you are never going to see again.
That said, people will be justified in feeling that you've been leading them on if you go on several dates and let them start developing feelings for you before you tell them about your reassignment. If you don't want to tell proactively, it is your responsibility to watch like a hawk for signs that being trans is a deal-breaker, and either talk or walk as soon as it's clear that it's an issue. Letting them continue to get in deeper without full disclosure is lying. It's not fundamentally different than failing to disclose that you are married.
That said, people will be justified in feeling that you've been leading them on if you go on several dates and let them start developing feelings for you before you tell them about your reassignment. If you don't want to tell proactively, it is your responsibility to watch like a hawk for signs that being trans is a deal-breaker, and either talk or walk as soon as it's clear that it's an issue. Letting them continue to get in deeper without full disclosure is lying. It's not fundamentally different than failing to disclose that you are married.
172
My concept of attractive is not mainstream. While it may be a flag for someone to tell you are beautiful when you are not mainstream beautiful, don't rule out sincerity completely! My most favorite looking people in the whole world will not ever win a beauty contest.
173
I live in Canada and have a friend who wants GRS, but can't afford it. Health care is not the same in every province.
175
Honestly? I'm going to probably have a lot of women disagree with me but I am just not into (receiving) oral. It's like watching someone hammer a nail with a screwdriver when the hammer is RIGHT THERE.
177
thanks, perversecowgirl, for pointing out a possible reason for our experiences not being identical (instead of just telling me i'm nuts :D)
my tg ex is, in fact 6'3", though lithe and willowy with a pretty face. he's beautiful, but not passable. he was shocked when he realized that i was attracted to him as he really was, and not because i percieved him as a woman. it is really difficult for people to reconcile how they feel about themselves and how others perceive them!
my tg ex is, in fact 6'3", though lithe and willowy with a pretty face. he's beautiful, but not passable. he was shocked when he realized that i was attracted to him as he really was, and not because i percieved him as a woman. it is really difficult for people to reconcile how they feel about themselves and how others perceive them!
178
The "One-Minute Podcast" rocks! Just finished listening to it, and I heartily endorse your reviving the format again as soon and as often as is feasible.
179
"4. I have no idea. I'm almost 10 years older than you and I'm still battling my inner/giddy 13-year-old."
This is 100% my issue now and that is not what I need to hear! <3 you though.
This is 100% my issue now and that is not what I need to hear! <3 you though.
180
my tg ex is, in fact 6'3", though lithe and willowy with a pretty face. he's beautiful, but not passable. he was shocked when he realized that i was attracted to him as he really was, and not because i percieved him as a woman.
I am all about androgyny. Your ex sounds hot. :D
I am all about androgyny. Your ex sounds hot. :D
181
175 and 176,
I'm not that into receiving oral either. I'll do it for the sake of mixing things up and because my husband likes giving oral, but there's a lot of other stuff I'd rather be doing. I guess for many women, oral is the only way they can have an orgasm. Not me.
I'm not that into receiving oral either. I'll do it for the sake of mixing things up and because my husband likes giving oral, but there's a lot of other stuff I'd rather be doing. I guess for many women, oral is the only way they can have an orgasm. Not me.
183
While telling a chick she smells rank "down there" may be responsible thing to do, it's certainly going to be the end of that sexual encounter. For a one night stand, it just isn't going to happen. VOICE did what 99% of horny others would do in the same situation.
184
"Your ex sounds hot. :D "
totally! the sex was great. it was that pesky "living on the same planet" thing :D
totally! the sex was great. it was that pesky "living on the same planet" thing :D
185
I really want to hear from DUMB, too.
It sounds pretty obvious that sandwich boy knows he'd asked out a T-girl, given that she said she really isn't passable.
If that first phone call hasn't happened yet she could break the ice on the phone. Ask "Have you dated anyone like me before?" and see what he says. If he says "Well, no, I've only really only met one or two, uh, ladies like yourself but I'm kind of shy and was kind of confused by my attraction at first..." you could gather he's aware you're trans: however if he says something clueless like "No, we're really not supposed to ask out customers." or "Yeah my last girlfriend was in college, too." then you can decide from there.
Oh and regarding SLUT, its a generational thing- people who got the Internet in high school or younger just are "wired" differently... I married someone just on the other side of this fence and realized some key differences; we are more accepting of changing social plans last-minute thanks to texting, and are immersed in a culture where we take pictures of ourselves a lot, moreso if you're hot. For you elders who think SLUT's behavior is odd or suspect, imagine having grown up with a magic bottomless box of Poloroid film. Unsupervised.
And Dan was obviously just being cute about his "age." Lighten up, everyone.
It sounds pretty obvious that sandwich boy knows he'd asked out a T-girl, given that she said she really isn't passable.
If that first phone call hasn't happened yet she could break the ice on the phone. Ask "Have you dated anyone like me before?" and see what he says. If he says "Well, no, I've only really only met one or two, uh, ladies like yourself but I'm kind of shy and was kind of confused by my attraction at first..." you could gather he's aware you're trans: however if he says something clueless like "No, we're really not supposed to ask out customers." or "Yeah my last girlfriend was in college, too." then you can decide from there.
Oh and regarding SLUT, its a generational thing- people who got the Internet in high school or younger just are "wired" differently... I married someone just on the other side of this fence and realized some key differences; we are more accepting of changing social plans last-minute thanks to texting, and are immersed in a culture where we take pictures of ourselves a lot, moreso if you're hot. For you elders who think SLUT's behavior is odd or suspect, imagine having grown up with a magic bottomless box of Poloroid film. Unsupervised.
And Dan was obviously just being cute about his "age." Lighten up, everyone.
186
It amazes me how many people say they "ended up" having sex with someone. It reeks of distancing, of absolving themselves of responsibility, of making whatever happens not their "fault". After all, it's not like they seduced someone, came to some (at least implied) agreement that sex would be A Nice Thing to share, and deliberately removed their clothing and engaged in sex. They just "ended up" having sex, like those old comics in girlie magazines where someone trips and "ends up" in the middle of a sexual encounter.
There are myriad other ways this manifests, from the (US cultural, I can't speak for other places) belief that sex is something that men "do" to their partners (i.e. "he fucked me", not "we had sex") to hearing "I slept with him but it's not my fault, I was drunk" from the same person week after week after week.
I really wish our society would grow up past the 13-year-old stage when it comes to sex. I think communication is the most important part of ANY relationship, not just sexual ones. Nobody is doing anyone a favor, or, indeed, fooling anyone with these abstractions.
There are myriad other ways this manifests, from the (US cultural, I can't speak for other places) belief that sex is something that men "do" to their partners (i.e. "he fucked me", not "we had sex") to hearing "I slept with him but it's not my fault, I was drunk" from the same person week after week after week.
I really wish our society would grow up past the 13-year-old stage when it comes to sex. I think communication is the most important part of ANY relationship, not just sexual ones. Nobody is doing anyone a favor, or, indeed, fooling anyone with these abstractions.
187
I'm a photographer, (gay cross-dressing...slightly tranny type) and i've taking hundreds of photos of myself. and Since i'm an expert at taking photos, I usually get the same reaction from guys i show them too..."whoa...WHO took those photos?" I DID!!!
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