Visual Art

Charles Krafft Is a White Nationalist Who Believes the Holocaust Is a Deliberately Exaggerated Myth

What Will Happen to One of the Northwest's Preeminent Artists—Whose Nazi Imagery Has Always Been Considered Ironic—Now That His Views Are Not a Secret?

Charles Krafft Is a White 
Nationalist Who Believes the Holocaust Is a Deliberately Exaggerated Myth

Image courtesy of Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco

CHARLES KRAFFT’S HITLER TEAPOT "Hitler Idaho" was purchased by a Jewish collector, now dead, who later gave it to a museum in San Francisco. The curator there speculates that if the collector were still alive and knew Krafft’s current views on the Holocaust, he would smash it.

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The question is hard to get your head around: If Charles Krafft is a Holocaust denier, what does that say about his revered artwork? What exactly does he believe happened, and didn't happen, during the Holocaust? How should collectors and curators—or anyone who sees his work— reassess his art in light of what he's been saying lately?

Krafft, an elder of Seattle art, is a provocateur. He makes ceramics out of human cremains, perfume bottles with swastika stoppers, wedding cakes frosted with Third Reich insignias. Up-and-coming artists continue to admire him. Leading curators include him in group shows from Bumbershoot to City Arts Fest. His work is in the permanent collections of Seattle Art Museum, Henry Art Gallery, and the Museum of Northwest Art, and it's been written about in the New Yorker, Harper's, Artforum, Juxtapoz. It's also appeared on the cover of The Stranger.

In 2009, I included his daintily painted ceramic AK 47 on a list of the 25 best works of art ever made in Seattle, and called him "the Northwest's best iconoclast." AK 47 is part of Krafft's Disasterware series, injecting the homey crafts of European ceramic painting with violence and catastrophic events. At the time of its creation, pretty much everyone thought Krafft was being ironic—poking holes in the fascist and totalitarian ideologies of the 20th century. He said as much in an interview in Salon in 2002. "For some reason, art has to be this earnest, serious, even Freudian, exploration," he told Salon. "But it doesn't necessarily have to be that at all. Art that's funny seems to get dismissed just because it is funny. But I've always had a knack and a penchant for going toward humorous irony."

Now, a decade later, some of Krafft's more than 2,000 Facebook friends would be hard-pressed to detect humor in his increasingly sinister posts. On January 14, for instance, Krafft posted, "Why amongst the monuments glorifying the history of this nation in Wash DC is there a museum of horrors dedicated to people who never lived, fought, or died here? The USHMM [United States Holocaust Memorial Museum] was erected before there was ever a monument to the 465,000 Americans who died in WWII. And no one did enough to save the Jews of Europe?"

When I wrote to Krafft back in May, letting him know that a reader had asked whether he was a Holocaust denier, I added, "I suppose you don't have to answer that, but I guess I'd like to know." This wasn't the first time I'd heard the rumor, but I found it impossible to imagine that the swastikas on Krafft's work might reflect genuine spite toward Jews—i.e., that there might not be so much difference between Krafft's swastikas and Hitler's. After all, that could mean this self-taught, former Skagit Valley hippie artist was using the guise of art and irony to smuggle far-right symbols into museums, galleries, collectors' homes, and upscale decor shops like Far4 on First Avenue.

That first time I asked Krafft whether he was a Holocaust denier, he refused to answer. "Unless it has some relevance to art that I'm currently exhibiting which you would like extra information about to review or comment on in The Stranger I see no reason to answer the loaded question 'Are you a Holocaust denier?'" he wrote.

But you can find Krafft narrating his philosophy in his own voice just by doing a little googling. On July 28, 2012, he participated (not for the first time) in a podcast produced by the white nationalist website The White Network, whose tagline is "Whites Talking to Whites About White Interests." According to The White Network's "about" page, "We recognize that different races and ethnic groups cannot live together in peace on the same soil, that Whites cannot and should not tolerate being governed by non-Whites." The description goes on to say: "Jews are not White. They are obsessed with their own group's best interests, not ours. Our network is and will always remain by, for, and about the best interests of Whites, and only Whites. We are uncompromising on this point. We do not hesitate to identify and criticize Jews and will not allow them to hide amongst us."

On the podcast, Krafft says, "I believe the Holocaust is a myth," and that the myth is "being used to promote multiculturalism and globalism." He says he believes the Christian story of the sacrifice of one man (Jesus) is being trumped "by this new secular religion of the sacrifice of six million Jews. And the museums, memorials, monuments, study centers, Holocaust chairs at the universities—it's all part of the promotion of a new kind of, like I said, civil religion maybe... We're the heretics in a new religion that's being promoted and built up and being embraced by governments throughout the United States and Europe."

Krafft mentions people "sitting in prison because they dared to go up against this thing," and says, "It's not just the Jews that are promoting this thing. Yeah, it's their little myth. But we're going to be rounded up not by Jews, we're going to be rounded up, if it comes to this, by people just like ourselves." He says, "The Jews have gotten white people to turn against themselves," and that Holocaust revisionism is "a good weapon to use against the people who are trying to replace us."

Krafft, who is 65, has always had an edge to him, and it's been sharpening in recent years. "I drifted into white nationalism as a result of reading a book about a Romanian archbishop who was charged with crimes against humanity and subsequently deported from the United States," Krafft explains on the podcast. (According to the New York Times, the archbishop's past "included membership in a group called the Iron Guard, a fascist movement that was the Romanian parallel of the Nazi storm troopers in Germany.") The archbishop's story "intrigued me and I started investigating this case," Krafft says on the podcast, "and the deeper I got into it, the more I realized that the charges were trumped up. That led me to investigating the Holocaust, and I went through that into becoming aware of the writings of Kevin MacDonald and some of the intellectual leaders of what we call the white nationalist movement."

The particular topic of the podcast was whether white nationalists could be more successful as a movement if they hid their beliefs on the Holocaust or homosexuals. Krafft said he didn't think a person's sexuality should matter to white nationalists (the two others on the show disagreed), but said that the truth is more important than white nationalist strategy, and therefore he and his fellow white nationalists should not hide their beliefs about the Holocaust.

Krafft's website, from which he sells most of his artwork, does not contain any of his copious commentary about the Holocaust.

To clarify his views, last week I asked Krafft over e-mail, "Do you believe Hitler's regime systematically murdered millions of Jews?"

Krafft wrote back, "I don't doubt that Hitler's regime killed a lot of Jews in WWII, but I don't believe they were ever frog marched into homicidal gas chambers and dispatched. I think between 700,000–1.2 million Jews died of disease, starvation, overwork, reprisals for partisan attacks, allied bombing, and natural causes during the war."

That was the entire e-mail. I followed up: "The number I've always read is 6 million Jews killed. I just want to clarify that it's your belief that 700,000 to 1.2 million Jews died total."

Krafft did not answer the question. He only sent a link to a story about exaggerations in the original numbers of Jews reported killed at Auschwitz. That story, called "New 'Official' Changes in the Auschwitz Story," appears on a website called Institute for Historical Review.

Wanting to understand more, I asked Krafft over e-mail to explain the development of his beliefs. He reiterated that he didn't get interested in World War II until he read about the Romanian archbishop in 2000, and said he continues to research the case, including a trip this December to the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City. He wrote:

Understanding the nuts and bolts of this complex civil case, the Romanian history behind it and its geopolitical ramifications ultimately served to awaken my racial self-awareness as a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant). Most people don't understand the difference between White Nationalism and White Supremacism. White Nationalists don't want to reign supreme over any other race. Symbols associated with White Supremacism like swastikas, shamrocks, the Celtic cross etc. aren't embraced by White Nationalists. White Nationalism doesn't have a symbol.

On Facebook, Krafft has posted links to claims that death-camp photography was doctored and that the US Holocaust Memorial Museum fraudulently displayed a gas chamber door. "Holocaust studies is an academic echo chamber," he has written.

Krafft's Facebook posts got the attention of Tim Detweiler, who showed Krafft's work several times during his tenure as director of the Museum of Northwest Art. He's not sure how to feel. "If you were a Nazi sympathizer and selling Hitler paraphernalia by the side of the road, you'd be killed," Detweiler said. "But he's selling it at the highest-priced stores and at galleries all over the country... It would be like if Kara Walker came out after doing all these years of pickaninnies"—Walker is an African American artist who makes cartoonish silhouettes of horrible scenes from slavery—"and said, 'Oh, through my research, I've found that the slave trade was not as bad as we thought—the numbers were exaggerated and the slaves had more choice than we thought.' What would you think of her work then? I mean, I don't know. My head's spinning, to be honest."

According to old friends of Krafft's interviewed for this story, Krafft has laughed in private at the liberal-leaning art establishment he's fooled with his art. In response to that accusation, Krafft said, "I would ask the person who told you they have seen me laugh about 'fooling' curators to be more specific and tell you which curators they saw me laughing at." More than one person tells the story of Krafft privately laughing at curator Timothy Burgard, who is in charge of American art for the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco (FAMSF).

In 2003, Krafft made a ceramic teapot in the shape of a bust of Hitler, with eerie holes for eyes. A Jewish collector named Sandy Besser, now dead, bought the Hitler teapot and added it to his overtly politically themed collection, which he later donated to FAMSF, where it was exhibited in 2007. Burgard wrote about it in a catalog as explicitly and clearly antifascist. "These blind-looking eyes also evoke associations with... the world turning a blind eye to the horrors of the Holocaust."

Reached by phone last week, Burgard said Krafft's change of heart on World War II raises larger issues about artists' intentions, "both expressed and concealed... and how those do or don't dovetail with their public reception and interpretation." As an experiment, Burgard showed the Hitler teapot to a colleague who had never seen it before and the colleague agreed with Burgard's original interpretation. What does it mean that when Krafft made this portrait of a demonized Hitler, he was actually beginning to spread the word that the demonization of Hitler has been greatly exaggerated?

Another question: Will the museum get rid of the Krafft? That's unlikely, Burgard said, explaining that he values the perspectives brought by artworks, maybe even more so when they're reminders of attitudes we'd forget at our own risk of repeating them. The label on the wall will probably have to change. Burgard said that if Besser—the original collector of the Hitler teapot—had thought the sculpture rehabilitated Hitler's regime, he'd probably have smashed it.

Burgard was able to find a note he received from Krafft in 2008. "I enjoyed your essay on 'The Content of Teapots' in the Besser Collection catalogue," Krafft wrote. "You certainly did your homework on the context of my 'Hitler Idaho' teapot."

The open question of how to treat the teapot in the future "deserves to be examined fully and critically in the public domain," Burgard said.

Later, I asked Krafft what he thought of Tim Detweiler's comparison to Kara Walker. "The difference between me and Kara Williams [sic] is that she gets to play the race card and I don't because I'm an unregenerate white heterosexual male," Krafft protested. "Has Kara Williams [sic] ever not cut a race based silhouette? Does she even know that the first person on record as a slave owner in America, Anthony Johnson, was black?!"

This is a case of trying to use one detail to discredit an entire history. I don't care whether the first slave owner in America was black. I'm not falling for it.

Krafft's friends say it's exhausting to argue with him because of his ability to cite everything he's read. He's been a poet and an artist since the 1960s and a proven rabble-rouser since high school, when he was expelled by a headmaster who said, according to a story Krafft delights in repeating, "Charlie puts people on edge and keeps them there." But lately he's taken his experiment in putting people on edge further than ever before, and his friends, other artists, and even people who sell his work are hitting their limits.

"We're all scratching our heads, and there are lots of us. We always said he'll do anything to provoke attention, but no—that's not it. It's real. It's an ideology now," said Hans Nelsen. Nelsen is a woodworker on Vashon Island who's known Krafft since the 1960s and feels extremely torn on the subject, because he loves Krafft as a friend but is horrified by some of his beliefs. The two men agree, Nelsen said, that global greed is out of control and linked to a corrupt banking system, but they diverge in that Nelsen does not see that system as a Jewish cabal.

When I asked Krafft about this, he scoffed. "The idea of 'friends' wringing their hands over what I think about anything strikes me as comical. I think Jewish overrepresentation in national and international finance is uncontrovertible. I would call this a fact not a 'cabal.'"

Another old friend, Tacoma writer Peggy Andersen, said she had to stop socializing with Krafft. "I told him, 'When I hang out with you, I feel like I'm endorsing something.'... His main thing is that the Holocaust is an exaggeration. I say, if they only killed 10,000 people because they were Jewish, it would still be a holocaust, jackass." As Andersen and I ended our interview, she said, "Be sure to say I love Charlie."

A longtime friend who insisted on anonymity said, "It's not only anti-Semitic stuff, it's also racism—you know, blacks and women and anything that is held dear by the liberal establishment. And I can see a reaction against holier-than-thou attitudes, I mean, yeah, of course. But..."

Other friends, like Larry Reid, coauthor of the 2002 monograph on Krafft, Villa Delirium, just sort of look away. "I try not to pay too much attention," Reid said.

On Facebook earlier this month, when a friend named Fred Owens unfriended Krafft and called him a bigot, a discussion arose in which Krafft told his critics they could sell off their works by him at Seattle ArtResource on First Avenue if they didn't want them anymore. But Jena Scott at Seattle ArtResource recently stopped accepting any Krafft works for consignment, because she found his e-mails increasingly upsetting. "I'm just sad about it," Scott said. "He's an intelligent, articulate guy who I respected throughout the years, and it just makes me sad. Everybody's sad, and you can't talk to him about it because it's not going to make a damn bit of difference."

Owens was motivated to speak on Facebook after playing online chess with a close Jewish friend from Boston, who simply asked Owens why he had a friend like that. "I realized that I could not continue playing chess with Harvey unless I did something about Charlie—it became simple for me," Owens wrote to me in an e-mail. Owens made another, broader, important point, too: We should "not just blame Charlie for this but the entire arts community of Seattle which has proven to be soft-headed. As I said when I wrote about this, it would never happen in Brooklyn or Boston—people would just kick his ass down the block. But Seattle has a misguided kind of false tolerance going on here, so there is a lesson for all of us in this."

Krafft is not a simple case, and nobody who knows him seems to be enjoying this moment. His personal kindness and generosity to friends and other artists is well-known. He has studied Zen Buddhism; I had to interview him by e-mail for this story because he's on a long pilgrimage in India.

Maybe what's hardest to accept is that a man so totally, radically, fist-pumpingly opposed to ideology—a guy you wanted to root for at the end of a bloody, painfully ideological century—himself seems to have succumbed to an ideology.

Yoko Ott, the curator who invited Krafft to be in the Softly Threatening exhibition at Bumbershoot in 2006—where he contributed the swastika wedding cake—remembers visiting him in his studio and wondering what to think.

"I did confront him, like, 'Do you consider yourself a neo-Nazi or sympathetic to that?' And he said no, that he didn't," Ott said. "And then he laughed and said, 'But would that frighten you if I were?'" recommended

This article has been updated since its original publication.

 

Comments (334) RSS

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334
This bull crap is why people hate Jews.

Clearly this article was written by one.

Any intelligent person knows the holohoax was fake.
Posted by Heinrich Himmler on May 18, 2014 at 2:36 AM · Report this
333
all this "chatter" makes me want to go out and buy a piece of this "art" from this person who I never heard about until I came across this article. It's gonna go up in demand by one group or another ...

Friction = Fire
Posted by art for art sake on June 29, 2013 at 11:24 AM · Report this
332 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
331
"far-right symbols"? The Nazis were socialists - leftists.
Posted by Tertius on May 21, 2013 at 2:39 PM · Report this
330
This so called creature 'Kraft; is a disgrace to mankind. He is a nasty nazi. He hates everyone except his nazi friends. Of course Jewish people are 'White' they are the ONLY white religion. 87% are blond blue eyed. He is such a fool.
Of course we lost 6 million of honest jewish people in the holocaust, there is a tremendous amount of German paperwork to prove it. A full list of 6 million names.
Do not say this figure is wrong, if anything its a little lower. Even if 10 innocent people were was lost during WW2 its a tremendous loss.
send Kraft to his grave.
Posted by SHARON STEIN on May 20, 2013 at 8:00 AM · Report this
329
This so called creature 'Kraft; is a disgrace to mankind. He is a nasty nazi.
Of course we lost 6 million of honest jewish people in the holocaust, there is a tremendous amount of German paperwork to prove it. A full list of 6 million names.
Do not say this figure is wrong, if anything its a little lower.
send Kraft to his grave.
Posted by SHARON WHITE on May 20, 2013 at 7:47 AM · Report this
328
a true con artist. no one should support this artist, what a sham.
Posted by sofa on May 1, 2013 at 12:32 PM · Report this
327
Perhaps all the rich art buyers who praised and purchased his work should get together, hold a night rally, and burn all of Mr. Kraffts work?
Posted by Johnrambo on April 15, 2013 at 7:22 AM · Report this
326
@ "Brad Davis" aka Harold Covington, Seattle's biggest, self-described Nazi, @ 321:
---

Fellow Seattlers must be proud that Mr. Krafft and you are comrades. They can learn more about your long history of black ops and political sabotage here, Mr. "Brad Davis":

http://noncounterproductive.blogspot.com…

Together, you give a bad name to serious-minded students of National-Socialism.
Posted by Will Williams on April 7, 2013 at 6:31 AM · Report this
325
@240
The book you cite, _A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century_ is a known hoax dating to the 1950's; thanks for playing.
Posted by Nobody N. Particular on April 6, 2013 at 6:15 PM · Report this
nemofred 324

untrue. ken russell to witness the difference between creepy and funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu-KncLqD…
Posted by nemofred on April 5, 2013 at 3:26 PM · Report this
323
Soap rendered from Jewish fat and lampshades made of Jewish skin never existed. It was Propaganda, lies from a wartime psyops department.

The reason there are skeptics who refuse to accept at face value any and all propaganda and "survivor" stories under the all inclusive umbrella "holocaust" is not because of antisemitism, but rather a failure of Jewry to use plausible lies in fooling the stupid, inbred, trailer trash Goyim.

How dare the dumb Goyishe cattle ask questions.

I used to like Charles Krafft's art until I found out that he wasn't a Jew. His being a Goy changed the meaning of his art for me.

Only We Jews can trivialize Our Holocaust.

By, the way, I am having Hitler teapots with "Never Again" caption mass produced in China...They will be available at MOMA museum store by next Purim.

Posted by Yankel Weirnik on April 4, 2013 at 3:17 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 322
@320: "Yes, yes, dance my [Jew] puppets! Buy my art! Controversy!"

The problem here is that the audience who would be interested in his work just dwindled to the few white supremacists who cross over into the "art lover" demographic, Vincent Gallo, and Gavin McInnes.

There's plenty of controversial art out there that's fascinating, but it plays at concepts. When the artist is an avowed out and proud white supremacist, there's no flirtation with the darkness, it's just a series of symbols of hate that belong int the SPLC's collection.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 28, 2013 at 9:15 AM · Report this
321
He's on with the Nazi AGAIN. That's twice in one week!

http://northwestfront.org/2013/03/radio-…

Posted by Brad Davis on March 27, 2013 at 6:25 PM · Report this
castellano 320
Mr Crafft Must be laughing going on his way to the bank.He's not only denying his adherence to an ill movement but also promoting his art motivated to a social group.
Posted by castellano on March 27, 2013 at 2:44 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 319
Yes, 318. Neo-Nazis like you and Krafft are members of a hate group.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 26, 2013 at 5:44 PM · Report this
318
How dare he have an opinion of his own after being in Europe and physically seeing with his own eyes the facts of the matter.How dare he not accept the "kosher" version (which makes very little sense if any). How could he possibly not believe that 6 million died in auschwits no wait it was 4.5 million eerr no wait that was lowered 20 3.5 million eerr wait it's about to be lowered to 2.75 million. And we're supposed to be the ones full of hate?
Posted by Reality on March 26, 2013 at 5:14 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 317
@313: The news here is that Laibach was good theater (IMO) just really, really heavy handed. And Krafft had a sads that they weren't actually as Nazilike as his jerkoff dreams allied with.

White Supremacists apparently aren't good with gallows humor, which is strange considering how Krafft's work was portrayed initially.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 26, 2013 at 4:01 PM · Report this
samktg 316
@313, Yeah, there is something wrong with the art world. There are a lot of things wrong with the art world. I believe this particular issue has arisen from an art world that has almost solely judged art on its physical appearance since Greenberg, Adorno, and Horkheimer midcentury, which has produced a culture, particularly on the commercial side of things, where paying attention to things like context is peripheral. The art world is also particularly slow at giving attention to distasteful aspects of artists who generate money, attention, or both. It's not a shock at all that someone like Krafft could slip through, when the issues that make Krafft such a problem aren't really being filtered for. The current furor, which I think has a lot to do with a feeling of having been conned for a very long time, does point to a number of cultural changes that should happen in the art world. I'm not sure they will. I'm not sure they could happen even if it was revealed that Damien Hirst and Charles Saatchi regularly met to dine on kittens. The present model is too good at making money to really change. That said, none of this absolves Krafft.

@315, We used to read Krafft's work as satire of fascism, as tearing into Hitler, as making an ironic statement. It's no less ironic now, but the target is apparently something different, seemingly the importance we place on the Holocaust, the respect we hold for those who survived the camps, and our loving memory for those who did not. We always knew Krafft was tipping sacred cows, now we just know in which direction. And its gross. Really fucking gross. And it expresses a sentiment that puts my people in physical danger. And it comes from a person who expresses much more completely a variety of sentiments that have seen my people hounded across the planet with inquisitions, crusades, pogroms, and expulsions. Just because what Krafft has produced is art, real honest to god art, does not mean it has to be given respect or placed on a pedestal. (Hey, @313, there's another problem with the art world; art gets treated as holy, and beyond the criticism of mortals). That America was built on genocide is a red herring, and by no means suggests we should give attention to artists who say we should think "Holocaust? no biggie!"
More...
Posted by samktg on March 26, 2013 at 3:38 PM · Report this
315
The best of us are hard to figure out. We want easy answers. Recently, a friend showcased his poetry based on the terror which erupted inside him after he visited the holocaust sites in Germany. He didn't stop writing for years on the subject.

That's what art is for, to try and understand something. As terrible as Krafft's exploration might be, he's not in advertising or making propaganda. He's making art.

The truths about the gas chambers and all of it is terrible but I always remind my poet friend that in America we stand on the bones of native people and this is our genocide. Here in America, we are a different kind of denier.

Posted by Ann-Marie Stillion on March 26, 2013 at 1:25 PM · Report this
nemofred 314

phil campbell's new post at huffington is remarkable.

the gouged-out eyes thing was originally demonstrated to charles in his sculpture class at lakeside when he was about 14, by walter froelich, a spectacularly empathetic art teacher, unjustly unsung.

morris graves had a most beautiful beard.

charles also had a sensational beard: morris graves
Posted by nemofred on March 26, 2013 at 1:19 PM · Report this
Fnarf 313
Oh, Jesus, he's associated with Laibach? I saw Laibach once, and a more pretentious bunch of inept, arrhythmic, clanking, tuneless Euro wankjobs you could not imagine. I believe they had painted themselves silver. They were not just bad music, but ANTI-music (and that's coming from someone who appreciates Throbbing Gristle). It was TERRIBLE, in a way that SNL's "Schprockets" "touch my monkey" Dieter could never even approach. Seriously: pure unadulterated shit.

There was quite a lot of this is-he-or-isn't-he flirtation with Nazi imagery in the New Wave scene back in the day, going back to Joy Division, who were pub tossers, not Nazis, but had a devoted following who took the armbands and haircuts a little too seriously. There were some of these jerkoffs in Seattle, too. Unlike Joy Division, none of them ever made five seconds of interesting music -- and certainly not Laibach. Who were horseshit.

If Krafft has ever spent a moment associating with Laibach, he's a zero. Full stop. Far beyond "Marxism" or "Fascism" that's just bad art. Worse than bad art: stupid art.

The furor over Krafft to me suggests that something is deeply wrong not with Krafft (though that appears to be true as well) or his art but the art establishment that bought it. If you wake up in a dumpster with monkey shit on your teeth, it's not the monkey's fault.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on March 26, 2013 at 9:56 AM · Report this
312

If he's truly an artist, he's pulling a Kaufman. Laying on another layer of irony....

(If not, he has dementia.)
Posted by KaufManitis on March 25, 2013 at 7:15 PM · Report this
samktg 311
@309, Context, how does that work.

...fucking goyische nonsense.
Posted by samktg on March 25, 2013 at 6:21 PM · Report this
310
Well, we all know what artists think of critics (of every stripe).

You didn't 'out' him, you have merely made him more famous (and collectable) than any controversial piece he could have come up with.

Congratulations.
Posted by MadMagyar on March 25, 2013 at 5:37 PM · Report this
309
Brad Davis (306,307),
Well, at least you call him Charlie. That’s nice. But maybe you’re one of his defenders in disguise. I’ll presume you mean your words. It’s so bazaar that you site this wonderful interview (perhaps the best so far) of Charlie’s reality as an example of him being a Nazi or Neo-Nazi. He excels in this interview in stating his case and hanging Graves for her poor and incomplete research and reporting of the facts. Graves has shown that the liberal agenda can come on as a mighty fascism buoyed by the hope of a weird species of progressive righteousness. She has played the old intellectual con game of changing the subject quickly to avert the reader to something else. She hastily moves to claim that what matters is not the artist or his work anymore but an importantly deep curatorial deep insights about how the artist new beliefs change the meaning of his works. Of course she hasn’t proven this at all but initiated a bevy of international modern media copy cats wallowing in the sensationalism. And you, calling up the old rubric of guilt by association jump to the conclusion that Charlie is what he is not, and believes what he doesn’t believe as witnessed to by this interview. It might be instructive for the explosion of liberal media bigots to really listen to the interview you have selected. In it the interviewer describes Charlie as not one of them and Charlie can be quoted as saying:
“…I believe there was a lot of Jews and others killed in the holocaust. It’s not that I didn’t believe it didn’t happen.”
The liberals here, who are supposed to believe in the respectful importance of an open minded conversation in which we listen to and spend time reflecting on what another has said could do well to listen to the very interview you view as condemnatory. It doesn’t follow that because Charlie appeared on this site that he is one of them. Get real for Christ sake.
More...
Posted by GFinholt on March 25, 2013 at 2:24 PM · Report this
nemofred 308

i like how the podcast intro and exit music is by colum sands, ex-bandmate of the famous jews pete seeger and joan baez

also like how the moderator (sic) pronounces anti-semites "anti sea mites"

not terribly fond of sea mites myself
Posted by nemofred on March 25, 2013 at 1:50 PM · Report this
307
Hmm. First time commenter here. I posted a link to a neo-Nazi podcast featuring Charles Krafft that was uploaded just last night, but either I did it wrong or I don't have the right filters or you're not allowed to link here.

Anyway, the podcast is called Radio Free Northwest and it can be found at northwestfront.org, so if anyone's interested they can go there and find the program and hear what Krafft himself has to say about all this, including this very Stranger article and some acerbic comments on author Jen Graves. Looks like he hasn't changed his spots any.
Posted by Brad Davis on March 25, 2013 at 10:39 AM · Report this
306
Nazi Charlie is at it again:

http://northwestfront.org/2013/03/charle…





Posted by Brad Davis on March 25, 2013 at 10:26 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 305
@299: Look, you're okay with neo-nazi sentiments. We get that. If you can read Kraft's words and contextualize his art and you're still not getting any creepiness up your spine, you harbor the same antisemetic feelings.

Your inability to be honest isn't our fault. You don't have to like her criticism, but you're still a horrible person and your whole family should be ashamed of your rottenness.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 21, 2013 at 8:01 AM · Report this
samktg 304
@301, A good man does not advocate for or ally himself with a cause the fulfillment of which could only be achieved through ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst.
Posted by samktg on March 20, 2013 at 6:54 PM · Report this
samktg 303
@295, You aren't seriously engaging with Graves' article. She does not, in fact, make any explicit arguments in the piece, and instead frames it with a set of questions: how does this affect our understanding of his art? what do we now do with his art? is Krafft a Holocaust denier? She only answers the final question, and the evidence drawn from Krafft's mouth and the testimony of his friends and colleagues undeniably demonstrates that yes, Krafft is a holocaust denier and an antisemite. The presentation of her evidence is straightforward, and does not digress into non sequitur (you think it's there? prove it).

As far as answering her other questions, she points to two possibilities in her consultation with Tim Burgard and Jena Scott. Burgard, speaking from an institutional perspective, suggests resolving the issue by keeping Krafft's work on display and presenting a more nuanced explanation of its context. Scott provides a glimpse at how the individual might react, eg. by not collecting the work of, or associating with, an artist whose views you find offensive. These are hardly radical or cruel and unusual propositions. You are mischaracterizing what Graves has said and certainly what she believes. Krafft has thoroughly indicted himself, nothing Graves has written could seriously be regarded as demonization, especially considering she approached this article from an acknowledged position of disbelief as well as a position of interest in the allegations' falsity (she did name Krafft the PNW's best iconoclast, it is a bit embarrassing to learn that he is essentially a troll, though she maintains and, in my opinion, strengthens her credibility by writing this article).

If you really think it is wrong ask the questions Graves has asked, and then offer moderate, evidence based answers, you simply do not understand the importance of context in contemporary art practice, criticism, and scholarship. Not incidentally, these questions are also enormously important to how many people simply perceive, experience, or enjoy art. Not incidentally, people have a right to know, like with any product, how the sausage is made. Essentially, you are not taking Graves seriously.

And this is all without getting into how no one is obligated to give the time of day, let alone a spot in a museum or private collection, to someone who espouses views which represent an existential threat to the millions of Americans Krafft and his White Nationalist buddies consider "not White," Jewish people most obviously.
More...
Posted by samktg on March 20, 2013 at 6:47 PM · Report this
nemofred 302

if he is a good person, why is he encouraging the truly Northwest murderous bigots who carry the nazi torch?

who killed my friends the goldmarks in seattle?

and crystal's friend bob buchanan in olympia?

and, ultimately, crystal herself?

you know as little of these matters as charles knows from WWII

i need a SCAPEGOAT to allay my dismay at such extremely funny formulations as "martin luther coon???
Posted by nemofred on March 20, 2013 at 5:50 PM · Report this
301
nemofred, if Jen and all the others are promoting a false picture of Charlie and the wounded folk like you are looking for a scapegoat they've accomplished something like their expected ends. But in doing this they've made a fool out of you. You’re clearly bleeding and need to find an enemy and it's so understandable why you would jump on just about anybody to vent your pain, but you need to get it right. You are a puppet of Jen's very poorly written article that is the spawn of profoundly errant speculation. Charlie is not your enemy. Bad press and ridiculously poor and immature art curation is. You have not found the correct enemy. You have work to do if you want to be responsible. You'd be better off looking in the South or Idaho. All of you friends of the devil need to look elsewhere. Charlie's a victim like you and your dear lost one. Jen's misdirection is a culpret in a crime against her true beliefs and Charlie, a good man and good artist who is truly Northwest. Someone, with good character and good power needs to intervene in the slaughter of the inoccent.

(Hey, it’s the three-hundreds already!!!!)
Posted by GFinholt on March 20, 2013 at 5:14 PM · Report this
nemofred 300
@295:

“really questionable statements that would seem able to harm the reputation and commerce of this artist”

[yeah – all by charlie himself, certain to harm his reputation - but enhance his commerce (if slightly changing its demographic]

“leaves out so many good things about this man”

[like how he loves his puppy? like how extra-kind he is to his ex-lovers (those whose paintings and reputation he hasn’t taken pains to try and steal)?]

”rather conservative beliefs”

[“the holocaust is a myth” is not rather conservative. it is very conservative]

discursions or imprecise use of language might impact the public valuation of their work

[yeah, what he really meant was “I don’t really know anything about the holocaust”]

[tell him he needs to read up on Romanian history, starting with the Jew Norman Manea, who, unlike Charlie’s “sources”, is no fool when it comes to either National Socialism or Stalinism}

[also tell him that his “friends” burned my 22-year-old daughter to death with gasoline]
Posted by nemofred on March 20, 2013 at 4:35 PM · Report this
299

Dear Supreme commander of truth (undead ayn rand), I am deeply moved by you personifying me as being capable of appearing academic. For this, I offer you undying thanks and the biggest kiss ever. I’m amazed that I made you mentally stutter though. Of course the major problem with what seems to be a foundation of your approach is that you have succumbed to the atrociously unscholarly foundations of the pop-journalistic piece of Jen Graves on Charlie Krafft. She normally delivers such wonderful bouquets of art news and views to us all. Most of us like her quite a bit but she’s just human. Sadly, she unleashed this unfair and unbalanced diatribe on a good person who isn’t in any way what you seem to think he is, and a bevy of leading contemporary media folks have uncritically caved into acting out a putrefied herd behavior. There’s nothing like a mean meme. Many know the contemporary news media tends to an illness akin to what motivates reality TV, an illness burdened with dishonesty and illusion. How can we expect Jen, being in this system, being contaminated by such pressures and opportunities towards professional fame from slipping? (Can you imagine her, working to grow her own success, mashing an artist, to grow her name?) There’s the pity. I’ve tried like crazy to maintain respect for this one article of hers that drives me nuts. Her arguments against Charlie consist largely of vapid nonsequitors. In this she is attacking an artist of all things with a hubris that is rich in bullshit. You, being a puppet of her offerings are a sub-prophet of the ridiculous.
Posted by GFinholt on March 20, 2013 at 3:12 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 298
I mean, the story is that some guy who was flirting with Nazi imagery ironically turns out to have Neo-Nazi sympathies. That's why there's novelty and interest in the story. The Jews who bought his art were not pleased to find this out, and the meaning and context of his entire product has been altered by these relevations.

If you don't understand the difference between darkly humorous depictions of Nazis by someone creating a clever interplay of horror, and someone who supports the aims and goals of white supremacy, you probably shouldn't read art criticisms. They're far above what you can comprehend.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 20, 2013 at 8:37 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 297
@295: How dare an article publish statements from the artist and link to his personal white supremacist statements. Bias! BIASSSSSSS.

Just because you can ramp up the rhetoric to make it appear academic, doesn't mean that your post contains any meaning within.

"One of the major rules of the liberal/progressive tradition is to do no harm."

These articles aren't harming his reputation, his words and beliefs are harming his reputation. No bizarre "appeal to progressivism" is going to make it a bad idea to expose white supremacists in any scene, be it music, art, certainly politics.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 20, 2013 at 8:33 AM · Report this
Posted by hitchcock on March 19, 2013 at 10:47 PM · Report this
295
My first comment containing a reply to JG’s less than sympathetic article on C. Krafft was posted last week Monday the 11th in response to her article on the TAM scandal about Chinese donations. I tried to be cordial but guess there’s the possibility to read it as offering advice to a critic. Link follows (See comment 11):

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/chine…

Two days later there seemed to be an indication that I may have helped provoke a reaction. I’m not about to flaunt my self-importance here. On the subject one seems to experience the appearance of a lot of issues related to the inner-child. I’ll leave the psychologizing open to everyone. JG delivered what appears a final response to the Charles Krafft affair. She removed herself from writing the main article for the next week, wrote a retort (link follows) amplifying her put down of Krafft, his work, fixed it so no one could directly comment on it and quickly buried it under six new slog articles. Reminiscent of Caesar washing his hands maybe? (Note her crabby use of zzzzzzzz…s).

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

My views don’t parallel some of Charlie’s basic disastrous beliefs but believe there is, in the moral frame of a truly liberal/progressive framework, a rightful call to show Charlie understanding, compassion and support as a truly local veteran artist who we might actually celebrate to our betterment. I understand the problems but hold out seeing his reality from the glass half full mentality. What follows is an amendment of my comment on Charlie first incorporated in the other thread:

“One of the major rules of the liberal/progressive tradition is to do no harm. It’s built into this approach to life with roots in Romanticism and the Enlightenment. One style of reporting can be the subjecting elements in a local art world not only to scrutiny but as a victim of an intense drubbing combined with the premise that the reporting comes from higher ground. Such reporting can reach the level of “high” but entertains the danger of the kind of curious exposé found in such periodicals as the National Enquirer. In addition, such reporting faces the danger of violating fundamental social rules about being positive and getting along. Myself, I’m caught on the fence on such reporting. I can find myself lifted on the refreshing and brave calling up of something that seems wrong in the system. It’s revolutionary. But I also feel a part of me cringe when just about any article breeches certain social standards and exposes the supposed dirty laundry of a person, community or institution. The Stanger seems to embrace a style that ensures a foot in all camps and the possibility of doing wrong and thus harm, at times, in print.

(Exemption).

We can recall the article pointing out that the Seattle art community in some way sucks compared to Vancouver’s. We can recall the brazen honesty of an article that accused a local art critic of taking payoffs in the form of the works of an artist to write good reviews of that artist. We might ask were these exposés as balanced as the current one. And then there’s the recent article that would appear to just be telling the facts about a senior truly local artist, Charles Krafft, and find in its text really questionable statements that would seem able to harm the reputation and commerce of this artist, a reportage that leaves out so many good things about this man at hand in the evidence the article claims to use to obtain balance. In some theology there is the wise observation of the sin of omission. One might wish that this recent article on Charlie had been more fair and balanced and revealed more examples of his being quite a good person. We could have been treated a stronger revelation of how Charlie’s rather conservative beliefs don’t necessarily lead to an intelligent conclusion that he should be condemned for his associations. It could be said that the distinction of such nuances are important to any fair analysis. I can imagine some local artists being distraught over one of their own being so pilloried, worrying about what’s dirty in their laundry and wondering how their discursions or imprecise use of language might impact the public valuation of their work.

(Exemption).

I continue to value and enjoy the writing in this column by this author and have no fantasy that we can always agree. I support her role in the local scene and only offer my point of view as a reflection.”
More...
Posted by GFinholt on March 18, 2013 at 2:43 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 294
@293: Right, research isn't a problem, coming to conclusions and espousing them through "i'm just asking questions, guise!" coward rhetoric.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM · Report this
293
He was on NPR today and said that he was intellectually curious and came to his conclusions. My question: what studies satisfied his intellectual curiosity? Where did they come from? I have several suggestions that he may wish to read from an intellectual perspective that give a very different backdrop than the one he is saying is contrived. I don't deny a person their perspective - no one should - if you are disappointed in his view, shame on you for buying into it. Every person has a RIGHT to their view - however, if you are going to say that your view was attained through study and intellectual review, then review ALL of the material first - not just what is spoonfed to you - this is how "culture" happens and it is sickening.
Posted by scouter on March 16, 2013 at 3:52 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 292
@291: It's not character assassination. He's proud of his antisemitism and holocaust denial and you're proud of him for sticking up for your creepy, loathsome beliefs.

Good on ya, fly on back to Stormfront where y'alls can high-five and read from the Protocols.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 14, 2013 at 7:35 PM · Report this
291
@290 I'm just tired of of all this character assassination and it's always done by a certain small leftist clique of bullies. And they never turn the microscope on themselves. They lie, distort, and ignore in order to push their agenda. You never even responded to my point about Picasso because that's what you people do. You only get hysterically offended when you perceive nationalist sympathies, or if someone holds an unpopular view about WW2. Communists, from Lenin to Stalin to Kaganovich to Mao to Pol Pot, killed far more than the National Socialists. But you people never show the same amount of concern for the victims of Communism because you people are brainwashed little parakeets.
Posted by Headless Chickens on March 14, 2013 at 1:38 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 290
@289: Opinions on a person and their cultural product are going to be re-evaluated over time, historical context, and current social values.

Did you just buy a Soc101 for dummies book and manage to get a page further before your mind vomited forth any new knowledge you tried to shoehorn in?

Seriously, go back to Stormfront.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 14, 2013 at 9:41 AM · Report this
289
@287 All the people I mentioned were to varying degrees accused of holding anti-semitic views/sympathies, and as a result have had their work "re-evaluated", usually posthumously, by the brave new cultural gatekeepers. You can add Rodin, Twain, Wells, Chopin, Kant, Heidegger, Goethe, Roald Dahl, Joseph Campbell, Riefenstahl, and Walt Disney to that list.
Posted by Headless Chickens on March 14, 2013 at 12:28 AM · Report this
288
Robert Hughes argues that the controversy over Robert Mapplethorpe's work indicates the bankruptcy of the view that art should be morally and spiritually uplifting.

Culture of Complaint, 1993
Posted by undead jerry fallwell on March 14, 2013 at 12:22 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 287
@285: "It's a list that includes Degas, Pound, Eliot, Lewis, Wagner, Stravinsky, Solzhenitsyn, Liszt, Gandhi, Capote, Mencken, Bukowski, Vidal, Fitzgerald, Carter, Hemingway, Shakespeare, and on..."

Wow, ALL them were Neo-Nazis? That's amazing!
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 13, 2013 at 8:51 PM · Report this
nemofred 286

Jen Graves = NKVD

Charlie Krafft = Gore Vidal

George Orwell = Adolf Hitler

one of these doesn't make very much sense, but which?
Posted by nemofred on March 13, 2013 at 4:39 PM · Report this
285
Krafft is not the first artist to be pilloried by the witch finder gatekeepers. Judging by the quality of the people on that list it's not a terrible list to be on. It's a list that includes Degas, Pound, Eliot, Lewis, Wagner, Stravinsky, Solzhenitsyn, Liszt, Gandhi, Capote, Mencken, Bukowski, Vidal, Fitzgerald, Carter, Hemingway, Shakespeare, and on...

I'm getting really tired of the thought police. They are the new NKVD. If these busy bees are so concerned with human rights why do we never read articles about how Picasso supported Stalin? On the headstone of war criminal Ilya Ehrenburg's grave is a portrait drawn by Picasso. Not that I want to read any more of these carping snitch pieces...
Posted by Headless Chickens on March 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 284
To clairy: "Is this "freedom", or a form of suppression and censorship dressed in a PC suit?"

One has the "freedom" to espouse racist ideologies and others have the "freedom" to make others aware of abhorrent beliefs through social means.

It would help if you understood what the word "censorship" means. Read more.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 13, 2013 at 11:18 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 283
It's funny that "Political Correctness" is a phrase only used by racists and shitheels to justify being a racist shitheel, and no actual freedom-loving liberal actually practices it.

GB2Stormfront, PC Hunter.
Posted by undead ayn rand on March 13, 2013 at 11:12 AM · Report this
282
To 163 and 167:

You two combined wouldn't know a "point" if it smacked you upside your dreary little skulls.

Sure, Charlie has the "freedom" to express his views. He won't be thrown in jail or the gas chamber. True enough. He'll just have vacuous fools like Jen Graves and you assassinate his character w/o really understanding it, the result of which may destroy his career. He is being banned from college campuses across the country as I write, and France is up in arms and removing his work from exhibits.

Is this "freedom", or a form of suppression and censorship dressed in a PC suit?

This IS THE POINT! Political Correctness demands those who violate it's laws be "assassinated". You people are nothing but mindless PC soldiers taking holier than thou pop-shots at whatever pushes against your tender feelings and stunted conditioning. You are hypocrites of the worst sort.

Talk about intellectually dishonest. Bloody shameful.
Posted by PC Hunter on March 12, 2013 at 8:18 PM · Report this
281
After reading the Jen Graves manifesto I have only one suggestion :
change the name of your paper to Stang(l)er .

Jerzy Ulicki-Rek
Posted by Jerzy Ulicki-Rek on March 10, 2013 at 3:34 PM · Report this
k0nsl 280
Sweet, this got me very interested in Mr. Kraft. And in his art!
I'm gonna look for where to find it so I can buy it.

Btw, I don't believe in gas chambers and other exotic stories, either..

Why should you think any less of him because he does not share your belief? That is irrational and contrary to the progressiveness of the times we live in.
Those who condemn non-Believers, in any event, deserves to re-live the darkest times of the Middle Ages as witches :-)
Posted by k0nsl http://k0nsl.org/blog/ on March 10, 2013 at 1:10 PM · Report this
k0nsl 279
Sweet, this got me very interested in Mr. Kraft. And in his art!
I'm gonna look for where to buy it.

Btw, I don't believe in gas chambers and other exotic stories, either..

Why should you think any less of him because he does not share your belief?
Posted by k0nsl http://k0nsl.org/blog/ on March 10, 2013 at 1:04 PM · Report this
nemofred 278
And pensacola, Florida, does not exist because i've never been there
Posted by nemofred on March 9, 2013 at 10:45 PM · Report this
277
I think people should live on evidence based on truth alone not on hearsay. We must learn to know when when we are victims of propaganda and indoctrinations and why? I wonder, who did ever study the Holocaust from all sides? Yet, taboos can be spiritual quest which teaches to love unconditionally, and ultimately lead to an expansion of mind? We need to ask ourselves what are taboos for and who gains? In the past, sexuality was a taboo, now it is not. It seems to be replaced by the Holocaust narrative as new taboo. Question it is "hate speech,"I wonder, "how so?" It is wrong that people lose their job and friends over this taboo.

Even Lord Buddha said. “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

To story of "should" and "must believe" is the reason for all wars in the past but how do we come to truly know things is a different matter. Nobody must be forced to believe anything, not even the Holocaust. One can still be a good person, you see. I think, we all need to restudy history to understand what forces are at work. Interesting to me was Jewish Kabbalah and prophecies. I see no hatred in people sharing their explorations. As long as our intentions are good and life affirming, nothing can go wrong. Who really knows that the Jewish people need 2 Holocausts and 3 World wars before their Messiah can be birthed thrugh the blood of humanity. Imagine with this prophecy comes also a longing and desperation which may not always serve humanity as a whole. Those kind of people, who deeply love all of humanity all equal, must restudy history. People with such dangerous prophecies must be observed and held in check. Their intentions are not always for the good and benefit of all. Best are historians from China or India for researching history from scratch. We in the West are always way to biased either way in our assumption and conclusions.

Other than that, we need to learn to unconditionally listen to each other without having to affirm or deny anything. I suggest Peter Fenner's book, "Radiant Mind." People aren't really so bad. Allowing is the key to happiness. It is not wrong of somebody does not share our opinion, we still share space and laughter. When we finally shut up, we may feel that we love one another. That happens when conditioning and content is gone. Much to you all, and nothing much really happened at all. All is good. :-)
More...
Posted by Peace1234 on March 9, 2013 at 6:01 PM · Report this
276
All of a sudden he has gone from questioner to denier! Typically, anyone crossing the Zionist party line is anyone who actually wants to question the religion of the holocaust. Constant indoctrination and lies are spewed forth from the Zionist lobbies in the US. Zionist controlled Hollywood pumps out filth and. Christian/Muslim bashing without a care, but beware he who doth question the mysterious disappearance of 6000000 undocumented chosen ones. Where's the equality?
Posted by Angela one on March 9, 2013 at 12:07 AM · Report this
275
The idea that Kraft's nationalism and sympathy for revisionism make the works any less ironic is to (ironically) misunderstand the concept of irony itself.
Kraft's work, whether it be on Hitler, Kim Jong Il or Islam, is intended to give us a little distance from the relentless mythologization of these figures into symbolic demons. Todays propaganda system cannot handle that.
Posted by henrietta5 on March 8, 2013 at 5:36 PM · Report this
274
That the meaning of this guy's artwork must rest on what his beliefs are shows what a great con conceptual art is and the gullibility of art critics, curators and collectors.

Real art stands alone-apart from its maker-to be interpreted by the viewer who is influenced by his/her history and beliefs, but not influenced by the beliefs and history of the maker.
Posted by John Drabble on March 7, 2013 at 1:23 PM · Report this
273
269
Of course, the NY Times is not the "source".
They are reporting from "the source".
And, yes, the source is the holocaust museum.
But, to fairly judge the "source" one would need to study the material and not simply dismiss it without even looking at it.
Even if one considers the source questionable, it still could contain accurate information, so it is that"information" which one needs to examine.
As a wise man once said:
"Information that is consistent with our pre-existing beliefs is often accepted at face value, whereas evidence that contradicts them is critically scrutinized and discounted. Our beliefs may thus be less responsive than they should to the implications of new information”

Posted by caear on March 5, 2013 at 1:10 AM · Report this
sheiler 272
Also this: http://newpol.org/content/visit-bikernie… about one of my bosses who returned home, home of Latvian Nazis, for a quick trip only to discover the new Nazis are the same old Nazis. FWIW, he fled the Nazis, landed in the US, joined the Army to that he could go back to Europe and kick some ass.
Posted by sheiler http://sheilerama.com on March 4, 2013 at 6:21 AM · Report this
sheiler 271
All this impassioned debating reminds me of Noam Chomsky who believes that Holocaust deniers should be allowed to spew whatever nonsense they want to spew without suffering jail time, but who should also be prepared to be roundly belittled.
Posted by sheiler http://sheilerama.com on March 4, 2013 at 6:15 AM · Report this
270
Great artical but I would like to say if Kara Walker denied the horrors of slavery as a black person that is entirely differnt than a non Jew dening the holocaust... I think all museums with Krafts work should sell the art and finance shows of Felix Nussbaum and other artists killed by the Nazis ...to prove to Kraft that indeed the holoaust is no myth...ps as a Jew I would be delighted to be non-white...if being white make me more like kraft.
Posted by debrasolomon on March 4, 2013 at 5:44 AM · Report this
269
@ Caear: "By the way, Christianity was inspired by a 'jew'. Do you also think Christianity is 'detrimental to a white society'?"
---

I do. It's a slave religion, not grounded at all in reality. I'm fully aware that Christianity has Jewish roots. Whites shouldn't be worshipping the imaginary Jewish tribal god, Yahweh. We can do better than that. We're from Europe, not the Levant.

@ Le Caquin: "[T]he Ashkenazi Jews are white..."
---

Really? Then why do they call those who oppose their supremacism anti-Semites? You must agree that Semites are not White, right? Why not just anti-Jew?

Can any of you Judeophiles define Semitism for me?

It's hard to believe that any independent-minded thinking person these days still believes in the so-called "Holocaust" of 6,000,000 Jews fable. Mr. Caear, don't you think you can find a better source for proving your "Holocaust" fable than from this morning's Jew-owned New York Times opinion page -- especially from a Jew Times reporter who doubles as a visiting fellow from the GD Jewish "Holocaust" Museum? It's that Jew's job to maintain the myth.

Why is it a jailable offense in many formerly White nations to question the Jew's so-called "Holocaust?" What other subjects can't be questioned without the skeptic going to prison for it? Racial equality? No, we can still say the races are definitely not equal...for now, anyway.
Posted by Will Williams on March 3, 2013 at 6:00 PM · Report this
268
Does it disturb you even more that most self-called "White" Americans don't seem to mind monsters like that living here?(Than the fact that monsters like that - who at least are PUBLICLY honest about their racism - are living here?)
Posted by 5th Columnist on March 3, 2013 at 4:52 PM · Report this
267
Hopefully this will kick the art world back in to reality instead of reveling in the world of the Emperor's New Clothes. If a label changes everything, perhaps there was nothing but the label to begin with.
Posted by dog's best friend on March 3, 2013 at 5:55 AM · Report this
266
Nazi"death camp" research just in:
42,500 sites:
" Researchers have now cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitler’s reign from 1933 to 1945.

The figure is so staggering that even Holocaust scholars had to make sure they had heard it correctly when the lead researchers previewed their findings at an academic forum in late January at the German Historical Institute in Washington

The documented camps include not only “killing centers” but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named “care” centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.

Auschwitz and a handful of other concentration camps have come to symbolize the Nazi killing machine in the public consciousness. Likewise, the Nazi system for imprisoning Jewish families in hometown ghettos has become associated with a single site — the Warsaw Ghetto, famous for the 1943 uprising. But these sites, infamous though they are, represent only a minuscule fraction of the entire German network, the new research makes painfully clear."

Here is the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/sunday…
Posted by caear on March 3, 2013 at 1:56 AM · Report this
265
It's pretty clear that Kraftt means to turn this into a criticism of the White and Jewish Left but not too many people here understand that.

Who knows if he actually believes in Holocaust Denial but it's all the more interesting that most libs here and in Seattle don't realize that the subject of Kraftt's work isn't Hitler or Nazism, but us. The liberal establishment that says what is and is not acceptable or politically correct to talk about.
Posted by Mariamao on March 2, 2013 at 9:02 PM · Report this
264
By the way, White Nationalism is based on a faulty premise because there is not and never was a White Nation: Poles are white, the French are white, and the Ashkenazi Jews are white, yet they cannot be all one Nation.(http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/nation)

If by term you mean "White English-speaking Gentile American of European descent" why not use a more specific term? I myself, of British descent on my father's side and German on my mother's, proudly call myself a Honky, and suggest that term be used instead. At least with Honky everybody knows who you mean.

I further sugest the following slogan and cry: HONK! HONK! HONKIES HONK! (Shouted while goose stepping, of course.)

Posted by Le Caquin on March 2, 2013 at 9:11 AM · Report this
263

[Dear Mods: my comment was long enough without gettin posted twice. I goofed. Could you please delete the duplicate?

Le Caquin]
Posted by Le Caquin on March 2, 2013 at 8:32 AM · Report this
262
I'm confused by something: this "Holocaust-denying IHR article" (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v21/v21n3p24_webe…) goes on about the 4 million Jews more or less, who are said to have died AT AUSCHWITZ (or Auschwitz's satellite death camp Birkenau, to be more technical). Weber's article should not be too controversial because I myself doubt that many Jews were killed AT AUSCHWITZ (and/or Birkenau).

Hoever, that is beside the point: Auschwitz-Birkenau was not the ONLY location where the Holocaust took place: e.g., in the early stages of the Nazi war on the USSR the Jews of Poland and Ukraine were forced to dig huge graves, then marched into the holes and shot. Scholars may argue about details, but the incontrovertible fact is that majority of the pre-1940 Jewish population of Europe "disappeared" in one way or another in one place or another. They did not all move to Brooklyn.

Nor were Jews the only victims of the Holocaust: several categories of "subhumans," including Communists, Roma and homosexuals, were also murdered. We must also recall that in in the early phases of "Operation Barbarossa" a great number of Soviet POWs were penned up in barbed wire stockages and left to starve. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_crimes…)

And let's not forget all the civilians of whatever nationality or religion who died in the various Blitzkriegs and in the rocket attacks on Britain, for example, as well as all those German civilans who were slain by Allied military action or murdered in retaliatory attacks like the "mini-holocaust" against Dresden or the Soviet detruction of Berlin.

And let's not forget all those soldiers of all the countries involved who died or were crippled or maimed in the European theaters of WW2, nor the uncountable numbers of people all over Europe who were raped by soldiers of whatever nation and left to live with the memory. And last but not least, let us remember the millions of survivors who came through the war more or less unscathed only to have to deal with its aftermath for the next 3 or 4 decades.

Getting bogged down in arguments about how many people of what category were killed in which locations is diversionary and stupid: it is enough to note the larger incontrovertible fact, which is that in Europe the Nazis started a second World War that resulted in a humongous number of deaths and disfigurations in a broad swath from the Pyrenees to the Urals. When you consider that fact, does it really matter exactly how many of exactly what kind of people died in exactly which place at the hands of whom exactly?


More...
Posted by Le Caquin on March 2, 2013 at 8:29 AM · Report this
261
I'm confused by something: this "Holocaust-denying IHR article" (http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v21/v21n3p24_webe…) goes on about the 4 million Jews more or less, who are said to have died AT AUSCHWITZ (or Auschwitz's satellite death camp Birkenau, to be more technical). Weber's article should not be too controversial because I myself doubt that many Jews were killed AT AUSCHWITZ (and/or Birkenau).

Hoever, that is beside the point: Auschwitz-Birkenau was not the ONLY location where the Holocaust took place: e.g., in the early stages of the Nazi war on the USSR the Jews of Poland and Ukraine were forced to dig huge graves, then marched into the holes and shot. Scholars may argue about details, but the incontrovertible fact is that majority of the pre-1940 Jewish population of Europe "disappeared" in one way or another in one place or another. They did not all move to Brooklyn.

Nor were Jews the only victims of the Holocaust: several categories of "subhumans," including Communists, Roma and homosexuals, were also murdered. We must also recall that in in the early phases of "Operation Barbarossa" a great number of Soviet POWs were penned up in barbed wire stockages and left to starve. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_crimes…)

And let's not forget all the civilians of whatever nationality or religion who died in the various Blitzkriegs and in the rocket attacks on Britain, for example, as well as all those German civilans who were slain by Allied military action or murdered in retaliatory attacks like the "mini-holocaust" against Dresden or the Soviet detruction of Berlin.

And let's not forget all those soldiers of all the countries involved who died or were crippled or maimed in the European theaters of WW2, nor the uncountable numbers of people all over Europe who were raped by soldiers of whatever nation and left to live with the memory. And last but not least, let us remember the millions of survivors who came through the war more or less unscathed only to have to deal with its aftermath for the next 3 or 4 decades.

Getting bogged down in arguments about how many people of what category were killed in which locations is diversionary and stupid: it is enough to note the larger incontrovertible fact, which is that in Europe the Nazis started a second World War that resulted in a humongous number of deaths and disfigurations in a broad swath from the Pyrenees to the Urals. When you consider that fact, does it really matter exactly how many of exactly what kind of people died in exactly which place at the hands of whom exactly?


More...
Posted by Le Caquin on March 2, 2013 at 7:56 AM · Report this
260
PS 255
As far as I know no southern whites were "dispossessed" of anything as a result of the civil rights movement.
The word means "to cause someone to lose something they possess or own", such as property.
So I do not understand what you are referring to.

And I am not a fan of any "ism" regardless of who inspired it.
By the way, Christianity was inspired by a "jew".
Do you also think Christianity is "detrimental to a white society"?

Posted by caear on March 2, 2013 at 6:34 AM · Report this
259
255
You are again making an unwarranted assumption.
None of the people I met or worked with were "marching or agitating".
The only thing we were doing was helping people to register to vote.
And nobody I knew or met were "communists" or even cared about "communism" or its economic theories.
As I recall, the "right to vote" is an American theory.
Apparently you equate the "right to vote" with "dispossessing southern whites"?

You were also fighting Vietnamese in Vietnam. And you, by definition, were fighting against the economic theory expounded by Marx and Engles. They defined "communism", not those latecomers like Stalin or Mao.
Both of them also killed communists in order to achieve political power.
As I recall Marx and Engels didn't kill anybody.
If you leave Marx and Engels out of your analysis of "communism" you are making a huge mistake.
Why do you think they called it "communism" if it was not an economic theory? "Communism" means COMMON ownership or the means of production, that was what it was all about!

Posted by caear on March 2, 2013 at 5:51 AM · Report this
258
Yeah: A little know fact about Goering: He was actually *beloved* of the Jews, yeah, and they really *gave* him all those priceless treasures of European art before just, sort of disappearing into, you know, retirement, as a group, collectively, without their art, which they'd given to him—to Goering, I mean. Did you know that? It went something like that. Or else I've also heard he inherited all that art from his parents. one or the other, I forget which. Both those facts are, actually, true. I know because I'm clever and I can spell and put sentences together and so I can pull this sh*t out of my ass, just like you repugnant people.
Posted by Seandix on February 28, 2013 at 7:07 PM · Report this
257
I WONDER IF "Thunderbrow's" OTHER NAME IS, "Vigilant," FROM Personal Liberty Digest? NOW, "Thunderbrow/Vigilant," HAS Bob Livingston - A "SLICKER," BUT, STILL GARDEN-VARIETY "OLD FUCKIN' GOD-DAMN BASTARD" - ON HIS SIDE. BUT, I AM THE ONE WHO GENERATES CLICKS. Mr. Livingston, SEE HOW MUCH FUCKIN' DOUGH YOU GENERATE FROM, "Thunderbrow/Vigilant."

YOU OVERPLAYED YOUR HANDS, FUCKIN' GOD-DAMN ASSHOLES!

CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
Posted by CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON on February 27, 2013 at 5:54 PM · Report this
256
on top of that,he's into pedophilia.
Posted by Thunderbrow on February 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM · Report this
255
@ dnt trust me (241): "Best thread ever. Smart people have come out of the woodwork to comment on Slog. Refreshing, shocking, and illuminating ...Nice history lessons Will, thanks."

You're welcome. Credit The Stranger for allowing Politically Incorrect pro-White comments to see the light of day. That is usually not the case in non-WN forums.

This thread has run its course.

@Caear: "Your quote does not resemble the Civil Rights movement at all. And I was there in the 60's. It was the Constitution of the United States that motivated everybody I knew, not 'communism'... Nobody cared about 'communism'...I was in Mississippi in the 60's and everybody I knew in the civil rights movement was motivated by principles found in The Constitution."
---

Good for you, Caear. While you were marching and agitating with "communist" Civil Rights workers in Mississippi to dispossess southern Whites I was in Vietnam killing "communists" and my job there had nothing to do with either the U.S. Constitution or economic systems. It's clear to me that you and I are of opposite mindsets on nearly every issue.

By my way of thinking Capitalism and Communism are both Jew-spawned and detrimental to a healthy White society. I don't expect you to ever agree with me.
Posted by Will Williams on February 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM · Report this
254
AN OLD FUCKIN' GOD-DAMN BASTARD AT, Personal Liberty Digest, HAS STATED I HATE JEWS BECAUSE OF MY COMMENTARY IN THIS THREAD. THE FUCKIN' FART HAS A SIBERIAN HUSKY NAMED, "Shadow." I NEED TO SAUTEE THE MUTT IN MY FUCKIN' PISS AND EAT HIM FOR DINNER!

I AM FUCKIN' TIRED OF PEOPLE BEING APOLOGISTS FOR HEBREWS!

CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

Posted by CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON on February 22, 2013 at 8:03 PM · Report this
predrag djordjevic 253
Whatever Mr.Krafft's beliefs are, he is undeniably a talented artist. When did it become fashionable to first like the person in order to like their work? If that was the case we would be denied of works by Caravaggio(I love his work but would not invite him over for a dinner), Picasso(don't like him or his late works) etc.
Posted by predrag djordjevic http://www.predragtheartist.com on February 22, 2013 at 7:54 PM · Report this
252
R.Hietapakka here folks...think buddy could make me a Hermann Goering Toilet? I'd like to sit on his chin, and crap down his throat.
Posted by Raymond Hietapakka on February 22, 2013 at 6:32 PM · Report this
251
Thanks to Jen Graves for the article. I unfiended Charlie Krafft as soon as I got the gist of his screeds. Shame on anyone who hasn't. As to his art being revered, not by me. I showed at Roscoe Louie and have been around here a while and never understood what Charlie was trying to do except be clever. I had a drink with him once and found him to be a smart ass blowhard, but yes, smart.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson (who we all know wasn't perfect, but was right on in this sentiment) "If anyone says dumb-ass shit, that shit should be put on a pedestal for all to see, so reasonable people can talk about it".
The established art scene here is too old and too white. That Charlie was put up with for so long indicates that to be true. Seattle's scene will always be a backwater as long as the old white guys who run the show stay in power. Happily they are old and will be dead soon.
Tony Horn, Old White Artist.
Posted by tonyhorn on February 22, 2013 at 2:04 PM · Report this
250
245,
Yes, like Capitalism, Communism is an economic system.
And Karl Marx wrote about it.
Take a look, it is ALL about "economics", nothing else at all.
I am surprised you don't know that but it seems most people don't know that.
What else does Marx write about?

And, if you bother to read this, the fundamental principle of communism is "state ownership of the means of production".
That is number one.
You might try going to the source.

When people were getting killed the issue was always political POWER, not economics, two different things. Stalin and Mao were battling for political power. Capitalists have killed people too for the same reason.

As for the Church Committee, you should read the material yourself to decide if it is credible.
You seem prepared to deem it not credible without reading it.
Not all congressional investigations are whitewashes, although the ones you refer to sure appear to be.
To know, one must study their procedure and documents.
But I think one can not make such a judgment without at least reading their material.
The Church Committee based its findings on fbi materials and the fbi spent a lot of time on MLK.
As to why the fbi sealed its records my guess is that they want to cover up their own misdeeds, that's the usual reason.

Posted by caear on February 22, 2013 at 2:02 AM · Report this
249
youtube.com/watch?v=mQZhvuxf0-c
Posted by JanetN on February 21, 2013 at 8:19 PM · Report this
248
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla…

Thank you for doing your part, Jen.
Posted by JanetN on February 21, 2013 at 8:13 PM · Report this
247
DON'T BE NAIVE! Charles Krafft is actually the occult spawn of Karl Kraft, the Nazis' Nostradamus: [from Wikip]: Krafft moved into the orbit of the National Socialist elite in November 1939 when he made a remarkable prediction. He predicted that the Führer's life would be in danger between 7 and 10 November.
On 8 November, a bomb exploded at the Munich beer hall. There were many injuries but the target, Adolf Hitler, was unscathed because he left the assembly in the hall a few minutes before the explosion. In January 1940, Krafft began work on a pro-German evaluation of Nostradamus. In the spring of 1940 he gave a private horoscope reading for Hitler to an aide. but he never met his leader. Later he boasted to friends that he mentioned that the time for an attack on the USSR was some way off. Hitler, impatient to launch Operation Barbarossa after he had dealt with the West, in fact delayed his operations in the east until the following June. The stunning success of the early days of Barbarossa convinced him that Krafft had great powers....He wrote to a senior official predicting that British bombs would very soon destroy the Propaganda ministry in Berlin (another true statement). The letter was passed on to the Gestapo who viewed it as treasonous. He was incarcerated in foul conditions, contracted typhus, and eventually died on 8 January 1945 in the Buchenwald concentration camp.
Posted by Tim Appelo on February 21, 2013 at 3:09 PM · Report this
246
Does anybody know where I can get one of the Hitler teapots? Cool man. I'd be willing to pay up to $125 but I want mine of Madeline Albright.
Posted by Chas Martel on February 21, 2013 at 12:05 PM · Report this
245
@ Mr. Caear: "In 1976 the congressional Church Committee reviewed FBI documents and reported that the FBI had concluded there was "NO EVIDENCE" of ANY communist affiliation for King or the SCLC. That was the conclusion of the FBI, Hoovers own."
---

You're joking, right? You would trust Senator Church's "investigation." Sounds more like a whitewash, like congressional investigations into 9/11 or the JFK assassination or Watergate. Explain why King's FBI surveillance records were sealed for 50 years in 1977.

"I dont think you or J Edgar understand that "communism" is fundamentally an economic system whereby the state owns the means of production..."
---

Why the quotation marks around "communism?" Do you really believe the malignant cancer of communism is simply an alternate economic system? The 100+ million people murdered by Stalin and Mao was over economics? That's a good one.

You should read The Black Book of Communism (available @ Amazon). In The Communist Party: A Manual On Organization, 1975 (also at Amazon) author J. Peters writes: "The other important ally of the American proletariat is their mass of 13,000,000 Negro people in their struggle against national oppression. The Communist Party, as the revolutionary party of the proletariat, is the only party which is courageously and resolutely carrying on a struggle against the double exploitation and national oppression of the Negro people, becoming intense with the developing crisis, [and] can win over the great masses of the Negro people as allies of the Proletariat against the American bourgeosie."
Posted by Will Williams on February 21, 2013 at 11:56 AM · Report this
nemofred 244

the great arc of the arts over the last century has been to reconcile high art and low art, elitist sensibilities with popular sensibilities, art-for-art's-sake with art-with-a-message. hence many brilliant experiments with kitsch, science-fiction, advertising, graffiti, agitprop, and folk art, to name a few.

by reversing this process, i'e., bringing a degenerate art sensibility to high art, charlie is making a conceptual joke - a pretty funny one at that.

by using it to leverage cred in the high art community is also awfully funny.

by using it to leverage cred with those that would murder his mentors and friends is beyond despicable. he's the jock sturges of weapons porn.



Posted by nemofred on February 21, 2013 at 9:28 AM · Report this
243
Dear 239.
Your quote does not resemble the Civil Rights movement at all. And I was there in the 60's.
It was the Constitution of the United States that motivated everybody I knew, not "communism".
Nobody cared about "communism" or the state ownership of the means of production, all that crap!

The American Constitution was our highest calling and our guiding light.
I was in Mississippi in the 60's and everybody I knew in the civil rights movement was motivated by principles found in The Constitution.
It was American law that was the primary motivation.
And MLK spoke frequently about the US Constitution as the guiding light, also the Emancipation Proclamation, and the Declaration of Independence, "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness", "all men are created equal", etc, read his speeches, it is all about the US Constitution and US principles:

http://usconstitution.com/speeches/marti…

I, and others, were in Mississippi to help people register to VOTE, to exercise their constitutional rights, and some of our fellow "white people " were trying to kill us, in fact they did kill some of us. We were no there to advocate "communism " or to divide people.
You accuse the civil rights movement of "intensifying racial strife"? Apparently you do not know how much strife there already was!

At that time black people could and did get beaten or killed for simply trying to vote.
The local "authorities" were brutal, local cops could rape young black girls and beat and intimidate anybody without any fear of legal consequence.
I'd call that "racial strife"!

More...
Posted by caear on February 21, 2013 at 3:34 AM · Report this
242
234 "seeking reality"
Your link, once again, is to documents relating to soviet espionage going back to WW2, there is no reference there to MLK, Jr.
Your credibility again suffers!
Don't you have anything more recent than reports of WW2 espionage and J Edgars rambling speculation?

Here is my source :

In 1976 the congressional Church Committee reviewed FBI documents and reported that the FBI had concluded there was "NO EVIDENCE" of ANY communist affiliation for King or the SCLC.
That was the conclusion of the FBI, Hoovers own.

Here is my reference.
"Final Report of the Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities. United States Senate, 94th Congress, 2nd Session, April 26 (legislative day, April 14), 1976. [AKA "Church Committee Report"]. Archived on COINTELPRO sources website. Transcription and HTML by Paul Wolf. Retrieved April 19, 2005.
Intelligence Activities and the Rights of Americans, Book II"

I dont think you or J Edgar understand that "communism" is fundamentally an economic system whereby the state owns the means of production, like in China.

Posted by caear on February 21, 2013 at 2:08 AM · Report this
dnt trust me 241
Best thread ever. Smart people have come out of the woodwork to comment on Slog. Refreshing, shocking, and illuminating - perhaps the same can be said of Krafft. Anyway, too much to learn here already, let's get back to Gingrich and Glenn Beck, the great Slog mediocrity.. Nice history lessons Will, thanks.
Posted by dnt trust me on February 20, 2013 at 7:33 PM · Report this
240
@ Mr. Caear: "And to 183, thanks , you made my point"
---

You're welcome. 100 years ago, Communist Jew Israel Cohen authored the book, A Racial Program for the Twentieth Century, in which he wrote the following:
---

"We must realize that our Party's most powerful weapon is racial tension. By propounding into the consciousness of the dark races, that for centuries have been oppressed by the whites, we can mold them to the program of the Communist Party ... In America, we will aim for subtle victory.
While enflaming the Negro minority against the Whites, we will instill in the Whites a guilt complex for the exploitation of the Negroes. We will aid the Negroes to rise to prominence in every walk of life, in the professions, and in the world of sports and entertainment. With this prestige, the Negroes will be able to intermarry with the Whites, and begin a process which will deliver America to our cause."*

*On June 17, 1957, this passage was read into the Congressional Record by Rep. Thomas G. Abernathy.

Posted by Will Williams on February 20, 2013 at 3:20 PM · Report this
239
@ 188, Mr. Caear: "You say this is "anti-Nazi'? '...i.e., that there might not be so much difference between Krafft's swastikas and Hitler's.'" Well, she sure doesn't say a word about "Nazis" there , and that statement says nothing 'anti Nazi'. Can't you read and understand English?"
---

I'm just a goy hillbilly. What do I know? I know this much: Miss Jen didn't have to say her piece was anti-Nazi or that Kraft is a Nazi, she does it by associating him with "Hitler" and "swastikas" and "Holocaust denying." I'm not quite as suggestible as you, Mr. Caear.

[WW:] "[P]roof of his communist ideology and training is right in front of their eyes"

"Maybe people like J Edgar Hoover who lived with a man and allegedly wore womens clothing? Are you one of those? Or are you just a racist?"
---

No. I'm not one of them, thanks. I'm just a racially conscious goy. But speaking of MLK, Jr. and communism and race, here's what J. Edgar had to say of communist goals:

"Communists seek to advance the cause of communism by injecting themselves into racial situations and in exploiting them, (1) to intensify the frictions between Negroes and Whites to 'prove' that discrimination against the minorities is an inherent defect of the capitalistic system, (2) to foster domestic disunity by dividing Negroes and Whites into antagonistic, warring factions, (3) to undermine and destroy established authority, (4) to incite racial strife and riotous activity, and (6) to portray the Communist movement as the 'champion' of social protest and the only force capable of ameliorating the conditions of the Negro and the oppressed."
---

Sounds pretty much like the Reverend Doctor MLK's blueprint for agitation using "peaceful civil disobedience," does it not?

More...
Posted by Will Williams on February 20, 2013 at 3:14 PM · Report this
238
" "..... the entire arts community of Seattle which has proven to be soft-headed." " Indeed.
Posted by The Creative Class will save you. on February 20, 2013 at 12:51 PM · Report this
237
Jen, I greatly appreciated the research and responses to this Krafft piece. If you do a follow-up you may find this useful. For my own work I'm currently reading The Naked Brain: How the Emerging Neurosociety Is Changing How We Live, Work, and Love by Richard Restak, M.D. and found this on p. 78-9:
""Warning people about false information also tends to make it more familiar later on," according to Ian Skurnik, one of the authors of a paper in the Journal of Consumer Research entitled "How Warnings About False Claims Become Recommendations." "People may correctly remember teh information as false immediately after the warning. But as time passes, if people can't remember the details of the warning but still remember the core piece of information, they will tend to think of it as true."
Could a similar dynamic prevail when it comes to historical events? If so, repeating untruths often enough will increase the likelihood that some people will believe them. An intuitive understanding of the power of this illusion-of-truth effect accounts, I believe, for the vigorous opposition from all parts of the world toward Holocaust denials. In many countries in Europe it's a crive to state publicly that the Holocaut never took place. Why such an extreme response to a patently preposterous claim, a claim that can be refuted by countless sources? Because the cumulative effect of repeated denials coud conceivably lead to a "memory illusion." Our brain is organized in such a way that assertions, if repeated often enough, ten eventually to be accepted as facts. What is the basis for this so-called frequency-validity effect?"
Posted by kvrijmoet on February 20, 2013 at 12:34 PM · Report this
236
Finally! Moon landing hoax and shape-shifting lizard people! Wow.
Posted by Bic on February 20, 2013 at 11:30 AM · Report this
235
231/232

Just an FYI... I would not turn to Wikipedia for cold, hard facts.

I apologize, it's Vernona. You didn't read anything. If you read the Venona documents, it would takes weeks. Read the non-fiction book called "The Vernona Project." It's a good start:

http://www.amazon.com/Venona-Decoding-So…

And, your link sent me to a page to do research not an informational display. I gave you a link to where Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard Professor, acknowleged only around 388,000 slaves were brought into the states. He has every advantage to inflate that number and chose not to. He also refers to his sources.

And regarding MLK, the FBI files on King were sealed until 2025 or 2027. You know very little about MLK. Most of the real information was sealed. I do not know how old your are but I believe it is considerably younger than me.

I see tea party comments by others on here, and their view of the tea party comes from where? Direct contact or through the media? The media. Remember, owned and controlled by the Rothschild family. I am not a "tea partier" but I cannot understand why any American would have a problem with an organization that requests lower taxes and government oversight. You would think it's filled with a bunch of baby killers the way people react to it.

The whole civil rights movement was initiated and funded through mostly Jewish organizations (NAACP) and communist organizations.

My point is not the symantics of arguments, I am telling you we are all living in a fishbowl. The financial system is about to collapse, our government is out of control, the population has been dumbed-down to the point of total ignorance, we have military operations going on in Miami, drones flying over Montana, and we are arguing about something from the past.

Wake up and analyze things for yourself. Remove all prior beliefs from your head and look at things with a fresh mind. Then try to determine what makes sense and what doesn't. Logic.

Both communism and zionism came out of the House of Rothschild. They are mechanisms to control populations. I believe Zionism came out of their Vienna base in the 1880's and Theodore Herzl was their front man. It focused on labor. Communism, I believe, out of Frankfort but not sure of the time period. It's out there I just don't have time to go back and forth. Already spent too much time here.

Do you know what compartmentilization means? And gaslighting? Look them up and I mean the forms that refer to government operations. There is a dark-side of government and I a not just referring to ours.

Whether you choose to confirm any of this or not, I can't control. I am just telling you, your world will collapse soon and it is intentional. One day, something will set off a change in your perceptions. I think many of us start off like you and then we observe something that clicks. And then, there is no going back.

I am off to other things so I won't be responding again. I do, however, wish you well. And, good luck. You'll need it.

Just keep in mind, the strategy is misinform, divide, conquer. It's as old as man.

PS - Go YouTube Antony Sutton and Eustace Mullins. Don't read about them, listen to them and determine if they make sense. They were both vilified men who spent the greater part of their lives just trying to give people information. There was no honor, glory or wealth in what they did. In fact, it was the opposite. Why would anyone take on that challenge if not driven solely by conscience?
More...
Posted by SeekingReality on February 20, 2013 at 10:35 AM · Report this
234
231/232

Just an FYI... I would not turn to Wikipedia for cold, hard facts.

You didn't read anything. If you read the Verona documents, it would takes weeks. Read the non-fiction book called "The Versona Project." It's a good start:

http://www.amazon.com/Venona-Decoding-So…

And, your link sent me to a page to do research not an informational display. I gave you a link to where Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard Professor, acknowleged only around 388,000 slaves were brought into the states. He has every advantage to inflate that number and chose not to. He also refers to his sources.

And regarding MLK, the FBI files on King were sealed until 2025 or 2027. You know very little about MLK. Most of the real information was sealed. I do not know how old your are but I believe it is considerably younger than me.

I see tea party comments by others on here, and their view of the tea party comes from where? Direct contact or through the media? The media. Remember, owned and controlled by the Rothschild family. I am not a "tea partier" but I cannot understand why any American would have a problem with an organization that requests lower taxes and government oversight. You would think it's filled with a bunch of baby killers the way people react to it.

The whole civil rights movement was initiated and funded through mostly Jewish organizations (NAACP) and communist organizations. Facts.

My point is not the symantics of arguments, I am telling you we are all living in a fishbowl. The financial system is about to collapse, our government is out of control, the population has been dumbed-down to the point of total ignorance, we have military operations going on in Miami, drones flying over Montana, and we are arguing about something from the past.

Wake up and analyze things for yourself. Remove all prior beliefs from your head and look at the things with a fresh mind. Then try to determine what makes sense and what doesn't.

Both communism and Zionism came out of the House of Rothschild. They are mechanisms to control populations. I believe Zionism came out of their Vienna base in the 1880's and Theodore Herzl was their front man. It focused on labor. Communism, I believe, out of Frankfort but not sure of the time period. It's out there I just don't have time to go back and forth. Spent too much time here.

Do you know what compartmentilization means? And gaslighting? Look them up and I mean the forms that refer to government operations.

Whether you choose to confirm any of this or not, I can't control. I am just telling you your world will collapse soon and it is intentional. One day, something will set off a change in your perceptions. I think many of us start off like you and then we observe something that clicks. And then, there is no going back.

I am off to other things so I won't be responding again. I do, however, wish you well. And, good luck, you'll need it.

Just keep in mind, the strategy is misinform, divide, conquer. It's as old as man.

More...
Posted by SeekingReality on February 20, 2013 at 10:25 AM · Report this
233
look man, of course history gets spun around to serve the spinner. what's new about that? what gets me is that we all go wacko crazy everytime someone accuses the spinner of spinning (especially when it comes to the holocaust). i mean if this country is going to allow the tea party to put a strangle hold on all of us trying to "tribe", well why can't krafft speak his mind? also, if he was to say the samething about the native american genecide that allows all of us to live and breathe in the great USA, i wonder if the backlash would cause this kind stone throwing.
Posted by rayray on February 20, 2013 at 8:09 AM · Report this
232
PS 225,
You call yourself "seeking reality" but you give me a phony reference? Here is an example:

You wrote in 225," Martin Luther King was a communist and so was Rosa Parks. Read the Verona Project documents."
I just read them, and there is no reference at all to MLK or to Rosa Parks because the Verona project documents only relate to events in WW2 prior to 1945. There is nothing at all in there about these people who would have been children then
Also the Verona Documents have been widely discredited.
And you, "seeking reality", discredit yourself by giving me such a phony reference that has nothing to do with MLK and only wastes my time.
The link here covers the Verona Documents:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venona_proj…

"By 1976 the FBI had acknowledged that it had NOT obtained any evidence that King himself or the SCLC were actually involved with any communist organizations.[185]"This was after a lengthy and detailed investigation.

MLK wrote and spoke extensively and there is not one thing he said or wrote that suggested he supported "communism" and the state ownership of the means of production.
Posted by caear on February 20, 2013 at 3:58 AM · Report this
231
225
Apparently you didnt read my 219 link to the British National Archives that show 12 million slaves going through the London port alone prior to 1810.
It also notes that 5 million went out of Portugal, and that there were many other european shipping ports besides these two.
If use this link you can read all about it;
This link works for me.
And the British Customs kept good records since they were taxing the slave trade.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recor…
Posted by caear on February 20, 2013 at 2:40 AM · Report this
Robin8 230
@157: The Turner Diaries sums up what the goal is and how to achieve it.

@200: I'm sure he did cry. It was evidence he's wrong.

All: I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity, eh? I just came over here to get my weekly Savage, and this distracted me. I never heard of the guy before now.
Posted by Robin8 http://shutyoureverlovingpiehole.wordpress.com on February 19, 2013 at 7:21 PM · Report this
Robin8 229
The author forgot to mention that the journal with the scholarly-sounding title, Institute for Historical Review, is a publication devoted solely to pseudoscholarship denying the Holocaust, and frequently featuring the writings of internationally known Jew-haters like Fred Leuchter, Ernst Zundel, and David Irving:
http://archive.adl.org/learn/ext_us/hist…,
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/in…

David Irving, of course, is the British author who sued Deborah Lipstadt, author of Denying the Holocaust, for libel. Because he sued in a British court of law, Lipstadt found herself in the peculiar position of having to prove she didn't libel Irving, as opposed to him having to prove he was libeled, which would be the burden of proof in a US court of law.
Posted by Robin8 http://shutyoureverlovingpiehole.wordpress.com on February 19, 2013 at 6:55 PM · Report this
228
I hope it's not too late to jump in here. Several years back my wife was given a Krafft ceramic as a gift. It was immediately relegated to our personal wunderkammer where it sat among a random display of cultural artifacts and curiosities that I have been accumulating since childhood. Considering the recent revelations of Kraffts personal views I find it coincidentally appropriate that the piece has spent the last year nudged up against another artifact of the american right; the actual... the original... "Get a Brain Morans!" tea party sign. Now if only I could afford a modestly sized Currin to round out my collection. ;]

Respectfully,

Jerry Saltz
http://www.facebook.com/jerry.saltz
Posted by jesaz on February 19, 2013 at 3:40 PM · Report this
227
Charlie isn't funny. After you hit the same shock button a hundred times, it doesn't make you laugh anymore..... There may have been a point to it, years ago, but can we move on now?

It's not possible to outrage anyone about anything, so we might need to try something different.
Posted by Fred Owens on February 19, 2013 at 1:56 PM · Report this
226
219

Your link doesn't show a damn thing.
Posted by SeekingReality on February 19, 2013 at 1:22 PM · Report this
225
Dear 217,

My words were "For a country - that prior to 1965 - was overwhelmingly white" and I lived in that country and it was nothing like the picture portrayed today. In NYC, too, so I knew what the heck diversity was long before you even heard the word. Also, I refer to the nation and you appear to be referring to - what - the land???? This nation - the United States - was created by whites for whites.

I think you did inflate the numbers or rather your sources did. 400,000 doesn't quite have the ring 30,000,000 does. And, what about their offspring? I think Henry Louis Gates probably has that number right. Others have also stated that same figure. Where are your links?

I don't see one post here that says slavery or war was wonderful. Your perceptions are off track. Just like all these anti-haters are the ones mostly calling the names. A white person cannot say anything about blacks, Jews or other minorities - no matter how truthful - without being branded racist, Nazi, etc. That is how you silence the truth. Well, more and more people are starting to see this and are waking up.

"Are you one of those? Or are you just a racist?" - Ceaer

This probably would never be leveled against a black or hispanic. Because you mainly attack whites. Isn't that hateful? I only see white people being dragged through the mud here.

"Your unsubstantiated figure of 400,000 would mean only 1200 slaves a year were imported into the US? Hmmm?"

Slaves came in groups. Perhaps several thousand at once and then it would be months - or longer - before any more arrived. What do you think there was a steady flow? Did you know most of the slave ships were owned and operated by Jews? I bet not. There were even Jewish slaveholders and black slaveholders but only whites are attacked when it comes to slavery despite the fact that it was whites that abolished it.

It seems you can't handle the truth. The horror stories just aren't quite as horrific as you'd like them. Where is your compassion for the people bombed in Dresden? They were civilians. You know something else... it was the British and Americans who bombed civilians first, not the Nazis. They retaliated. I don't see any sympathy here for the Palestians or Syrians or Afghans - many of whom are innocent civilians. But a black man is doing the bombing so it must be morally right.

Also, why were only Nazis held at trial during Nuremberg? What about Italians and Japanese? I mean the Japanese were known for their horrific torture of Allied prisoners of war? If you really dug in deep about that, you'd know the whole thing was staged.

And, because some of the posters here aren't attacking Krafft they're called Nazis and everything else. I mean it is so typical. You defend lies, exaggerations, and misinformation.

BTW, Martin Luther King was a communist and so was Rosa Parks. Read the Verona Project documents (Library of Congress). In fact, Joe McCarthy was vindicated by the Soviets after they released the Verona documents. He was 99% accurate. But you've been taught to hate Joe McCarthy without really ever investigating that whole situation. Of course, our media never lets that one get through.

Do you know there are riots in Greece right now? Do you know there are protests in Ireland and France right now? Our media is silent on these issues because they want to keep Americans uninformed.

Recent scientific evidence (Kennewick Man et al) points out that Caucasians were here earlier than previously believed.

Did you know it was the Americans that gave the Soviets the plans to building atomic weapons as well as their first supply of enriched uranium.

Read "From Major Jordan's Diaries":

http://arcticbeacon.com/books/Maj_Geo_Ra…

Our reality is a facade. You have no idea what the truth is.

Go listen to YouTube clips of Antony Sutton and Eustace Mullins. You might just truly learn something. It all starts with the money supply and the you-know-who who controls it......

More...
Posted by SeekingReality on February 19, 2013 at 1:18 PM · Report this
224
M.Majority (223)

The Nazis would have "agreed" with you, and with Jen. They classified art by the religion and political slant of it's creator, and held special exhibits of "degenerate Jewish art".

Maybe Jen and The Stranger can hold an exhibit of "degenerate Nazi art" to show us how far we have all come.

Posted by Thomas Katt on February 19, 2013 at 1:01 PM · Report this
223
I just went through a list in my head and disregarded every painter, artist, writer, poet, playwright, performer and musician who could be considered fucked-up, racist, masogynistic, sexually deviant- then the addicts, theives, adulterers, liars, bigots, and generally aggressive assholes who hate everyone. I feel satisfyingly self-righteous, how ever- there is no decent art, music, or literature left for me to love. The period of the renaissance, among others, doesn't even exist anymore for me.

I will definitely require a full and in depth examination into everyone's skeleton filled closets before I ever mistakenly appreciate morally corrupt art again. Good luck to you Jen Graves, as an art critic- you have a very difficult job ahead of you. No longer can you simply argue over asthetics, you are expected to vet everyone's dirty little secrets before you can judge their art. Good luck liking anything ever again.

Posted by M.Majority on February 19, 2013 at 12:44 PM · Report this
222 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
221
Every northwestern nazi sympathizer seems to want to spin this mans horrible and yes, EVIL, beliefs as if its some kind of 'left wing attack' on social norms and social etiquette. No. Racism is not normal. Bigotry is not the standard nor should it be. Antisemetism is not 'and underground trendy mode of thought for the self analytical', its HATE, pure and simple. The same kind of hate that lead to the holocaust, and unless people stick up to to EVIL beliefs of people like Krafft, their message of HATE spreads unencumbered.

Ive also noticed that people seem to swear that Krafft and supporters of his racial/antisemetic ideas have several black, hispanic and left leaning friends. Odd that Ive yet to meet a black or jewish or hispanic or left leaning person who admits to being friends with an antisemite or racist. Yet everyone of these losers claims to be perfectly formal with the people they disparage and hate online or amongst others. Lies or self delusion?
Posted by transplantier on February 19, 2013 at 11:54 AM · Report this
220
Classic NW. art connoisseurship fail. blame yourselves, not the artist.
Posted by woopswenttoart405before102 on February 19, 2013 at 6:44 AM · Report this
219
PPS to 212
This is direct from the British National Archives, found here:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/recor…

It explains the detailed records kept and confirms the 12 million figure I gave you.

"4. Records relating to transportation of slaves and goods

Ships involved in the colonial trade were first required to be registered in 1696. Registers survive from 1786 in BT 6/191-193 and BT 107 (indexes in BT 111). Only four volumes for Liverpool, 1739-1774, have survived for ships registered before 1786 because of a fire at Customs House. These registers are held by the Merseyside Maritime Museum.

Prior to clearing from a British port, the master first had to obtain a pass from the Admiralty. These licenses and those relating to travelling in convoy are in ADM 7. At the port, the master of the ship had to provide the collector of customs with a written list of the cargo to calculate duty. The details were written up in Port Books (E 190). Other records may have been collected at the various customs houses (the records of customs out ports are in CUST series), however many have been lost due to fires, riots and war. In addition to customs duty, between 1698 and 1713 British merchants involved in the Africa trade had to pay 10% tax on goods exported to Africa. This tax was levied to maintain the African Company's forts etc. The duty ledgers are in T 70/349-356.

Ships' captains maintained log books or journals which described details of voyages. These log books were the property of the ship owners and survive in local record offices. Very few have been found in The National Archives; those that have are the log books of Royal African Company ships in T 70.

The master also lodged a muster with the collector of customs on the ship's return, some of these can now be found in BT 98 (for example the muster of the Otter in BT 98/68 no 127). However, only those for Liverpool survive before 1807. Some musters and crew lists may survive in the archives of port towns and cities.

Information relating to goods imported to and exported from Africa can be found in the duty ledgers, accounts and correspondence of the African companies in T 70, especially among records of their forts, factories and settlements on the West Coast of Africa. Other papers can be found in the correspondence and registers of the Board of Customs (CUST 3 and CUST 17), the Board of Trade (CO 388 to CO 391), the Treasury (T 1), and in the Port Books (E 190)."
More...
Posted by caear on February 19, 2013 at 6:17 AM · Report this
218
PS 212
The Brits kept pretty good records bacause they were taxing the slave transport. Here is one source:
http://abolition.e2bn.org/slavery_45.htm…

"Estimates, based on records of voyages in the archives of port customs and maritime insurance records, put the total number of African slaves transported by European traders, to at least 12 million people."

And thatwas just up to 1810, it is difficult to imagine that British Customs agents in the 18th century were fabricating their data.
. It is equally difficult to imagine that your reference to counts being made by the slaves themselves could possible be more accurate since they would have no way of knowing what went before or' after, and would at best be based on after the fact attempts to come up with a figure. I'd bet on British Customs records as being the most reliable source
Posted by caear on February 19, 2013 at 4:32 AM · Report this
217
Dear 212.
The 12 million figure comes from the Port of London official records.
And the population of slaves in the american slave states comes from american records.
Unlike you I at least can point you to an official source other than my own imagination.
Your unsubstantiated figure of 400,000 would mean only 1200 slaves a year were imported into the US? Hmmm?
I did not "inflate " the 12 million to 20 to 30 million because that 12 million ONLY refers to slaves that were shipped by way of London during those 300 years.
That was not the only port of export during the 300 years. There were many others.
Once again the real issue with slavery as well as the killing of civilians by the Nazi regime is not the numbers but the principle of the thing, ie, that it is morally wrong.
And let us not forget that about one third of the slaves died in transport, so you can add that to the tally.
You said that the US was a white country prior to 1965 and my point is that there have always been many other races .
It was sure not a "white country " when the white people first arrived! There were far more "indians", and also all the people in the southwest were what we now call "hispanics".
They were here first. In fact the entire continent of north and south "america" was not a "white" continent and it still is not.
It is fair to say that the "white people" were all "illegal immigrants" to a land of darker skinned people.
I have not said a single word against "white people", you apparently do not read very well or you would not say such a silly thing based upon my words.
Posted by caear on February 19, 2013 at 2:09 AM · Report this
216
It seems to me that Mr. Kraft is not interested in selling his works to a broad audience any longer. The pieces currently in museums will eventually get hidden away. What the Nazi's did, happened for all to see and did so in the full light of day.

On another note, I can't imagine drinking tea that came out of that pot.
Posted by Bill Sheehan on February 18, 2013 at 10:03 PM · Report this
samktg 215
@Caer, I appreciate the spine it takes to fight with these creeps, but you're banging your head against a brick wall. Although you are on the right side of history, so to speak, our history is not up for this kind of debate, and I ask that you drop it, considering your opponents will endlessly contort themselves to provide readings of the records that match their world view. The kind of ideas about Jews they are flinging around are exactly the same as those that led to the Holocaust, and I would appreciate it if (despite your intentions) you would stop goading them into broadcasting them any more loudly.

@SeekingReality, "What about the Khazar connection?" Ah, yes, never heard that one before. All of the genetic tests linking international Jewish populations more closely to each other than local non-Jewish populations and demonstrating common descent from the Levant are the product of international Zionist Occupied Governments, right? You clearly are intimately familiar with the complexities of Jewish history and identity. I was expecting you to say no Jews are white, but instead you tell me Ashkenazim are descended from Khazars. Wonderful.
Posted by samktg on February 18, 2013 at 5:12 PM · Report this
214
Boy. Nazi's are really sore losers. Second only to Confederates, or course.

YOU LOST THE WAR.

If there needs to be any further proof of how your Übermensch ideology was idiotic it should be that stark fact - YOU LOST AND YOU LOST BAD TO US MONGRELS.

Now accept the fact you are clearly not a superior race and get on with your pathetic little lives.
Posted by tkc on February 18, 2013 at 5:11 PM · Report this
213
Ever notice that every single Holocaust survivor claims to have lost their entire extended family?

And they were an exception because Himmler, Dr. Mengele or the Angel of Death, liked their violin playing?

This delves into that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaxV4hEwP…
Posted by yankel wiernik on February 18, 2013 at 5:06 PM · Report this
212
Dear 203,

"During the period of slavery the slave population in the slave states was around 25%.
According to shipping records in London over 12 million slaves passed through London on their way to america until slavery was outlawed in England in 1810.
London was only one of several major ports of "export"."

The number of slaves directly imported into the U.S. is around 400,000.

How about we get an accurate number from African-Americans:

http://www.theroot.com/views/100-amazing…

"The total number of slaves imported into the US has been reliably estimated as being around 20 to 30 million during the approximate 300 years we had slavery . This was far greater than the approximately 8 to 10 million Native Americans that were wiped out by the whites."

In just a few sentences, the number inflated to 20 to 30 million. I can assure you, Africans procreate at a far greater rate and would have resulted in a population today of about 200-300 million. My G-d, do you not see your hypocrisy?

How come no mention of the Arab slave traders when discussing slavery? Or, the cruelty that American Indians were known for? No, no, no, we must focus on the evil white man...

You're just another pathetic white-bashing white.

I'm just trying to wake you up. I don't know why but I am.
Posted by SeekingReality on February 18, 2013 at 4:15 PM · Report this
211
Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939-1945

By Saul Friedlander

I bet it is a wonderful example of a disinterested third party's view.
Posted by SeekingReality on February 18, 2013 at 3:55 PM · Report this
210
This is a perfect example of bash whitey. Most likely by whitey:

"What I hear is a bunch of paranoid white guys not happy to have most of the power and wanting ALL of the power, as they believe this time-tested status quo should remain.

Then you project your own past behaviours and actions onto the minorities you fear - as if blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc. are going to suddenly take away your rights or create segregation of make you sit at the back of the bus. It's standard right-wing delusional pussydom with an extra dollop of vicious xenophobia and hair-brained hyperbole."
Posted by SeekingReality on February 18, 2013 at 3:51 PM · Report this
209
#203

If you read the Balfour Declaration, then who gave England and the United States the authority to seize Palestinian land and give it to the Jews?
Posted by SeekingReality on February 18, 2013 at 3:35 PM · Report this
208
SeekingRealty should change his name to "SchizoOnBathSalts"
Posted by ThisDoucheNeedsAnIPban on February 18, 2013 at 3:30 PM · Report this
207
That should be Markus Wolf. Bad editing.
Posted by SeekingReality on February 18, 2013 at 3:16 PM · Report this
206
Dear 203,

If the 6 million number is false, then that is not the number we begin with, is it? A lot of Jews went to the US, England, South America, Canada and, of course, Israel. Believe it or not, there are still Jews in Germany, France, Italy, etc. How the heck did they survive? Hitler missed some?

I was adding not changing the subject.

All you Americans out there fawning over Israel and the Jews - defending them for them - will one day realize what really is going on. The Jewish elite is the problem, not the non-elite Jewish population. They've been suckered too.

Do you really believe that propaganda only existed in the Soviet Union? The US is rampant with it.

The divide and conquer strategy is in full swing in America. Do you not see it?

http://12160.info/photo/jewish-senior-of…

Did you know that the head of the East German Stassi was a Jew named Makcus Wolf. Slaughtered people but was a good guy, right?

Did you know that many of Josef Stalin's henchmen were Jews? I bet not.

Do you know who Myron Fagan is? An American Jew who used his private fortune to try and wake up American to the holocaust misinformation. Do you know who Benjamin Freedman is? Another American Jew who tried to wake people up.

There are Jews who control the media and Hollywood and your preceptions of them.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/comm…

Do you know that the Rothschilds own both Reuters and AP? When you control the money and the media, you own and control everything.

#198 I view most Ashkenazi Jews to be white (because they have alot of European blood) but the late Mike Wallace of 60 minutes didn't view himself as white. So, it goes both ways.

What about the Khazar connection?
More...
Posted by SeekingReality on February 18, 2013 at 3:10 PM · Report this
STS 205
Bankrupt the evil bastard.
Posted by STS on February 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM · Report this
204
Charles Krafft
Are you doing a little jig over this, or what? It will take a few more years, but what the world will know is that the received history of the Holocaust is a fable. Some of us were born at night, but not last night... http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/02/16/…

The Importance of Holocaust Revisionism, a Reply
www.veteranstoday.com
In the past two weeks, Veterans Today has published three pieces on Holocaust revisionism by Alan Hart, and one set of reflections by Jim Dean and Paul Eisen. Any discussion of this topic is
Posted by estatebuyersmia on February 18, 2013 at 2:41 PM · Report this
203
194
I am not surprised that you avoided answering my very simple questions about your claim that 6 million jews escaped from Germany, which was "where did they go" and why does it matter whether it was 6 million or less??
You dodged it by changing the subject because you cant answer it and we all can see that.

I do not get any of my "history from the "media", here you go again jumping to conclusions without a single reason to do so.

Of course the other side to that simple question is another very simple question, why did Germany send ANY Jewish people , or others, to "camps"? Bearing in mind that these people were not accused of any crime or wrongdoing, that they were law abiding citizens , and that this was done without any "due process of law, at all?
Why?
If our own government did such a thing most of us would be greatly offended.

During the period of slavery the slave population in the slave states was around 25%.
According to shipping records in London over 12 million slaves passed through London on their way to america until slavery was outlawed in England in 1810.
London was only one of several major ports of "export".
France outlawed it earlier in 1789, the USA not until after the Civil War, free labor was good for business.

The total number of slaves imported into the US has been reliably estimated as being around 20 to 30 million during the approximate 300 years we had slavery . This was far greater than the approximately 8 to 10 million Native Americans that were wiped out by the whites.
A large portion of slaves were of the Moslem religion although they were banned from practicing their religion in the United States.
So ,add it up, 20 to 30 million black slaves and 10 million "indians", thats about 40 million if I added correctly. so when you say this was a "white country until 1965" I gotta ask you where you get YOUR history?
I do agree that the Balfour Declaration should be read by all
More...
Posted by caear on February 18, 2013 at 1:55 PM · Report this
202
Some of folks who want to soft sell Nazi atrocities or question how many Jews were in Europe at the time ("How could they kill that many?") should read some reliable history--it's out there--and a good place to begin might be the excellent book "Nazi Germany and the Jews, 1939-1945," especially the second volume, "The Years of Extermination." Oh, and if you want to be really brave when poo-poohing the Holocaust you can stand by your convictions and not post anonymously.
Posted by Bob Rini http://bobrinimakesart.blogspot.com/ on February 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM · Report this
201
Some of Charlie's Solo Exhibitions

2008 “LOL, Not your Grandmother’s China”, J.Flynn Gallery, Costa Mesa, CA, USA
2007 “Artist Rifles Requiem”, Stolenspace, London, UK
2006 “Ceramic Sabotage”, School of Art & Design, San Jose State University, San Jose, CA, USA
2005 “Darkness in Delft”, Spokane Falls Community College, Spokane, WA, USA
“New Disasterware”, Copro Nason Gallery, Culver City, CA, USA
2004 “Final Presentation”, Europees Keramisch Werkcentrum, ‘s Hertogenbosch, Netherlands
2003 “Ring of Spone”, Queen Anne Columbarium/Mt. Pleasant Cemetery, Seattle, WA, USA
“Never Look A Giftshoppe in the Mouth”, Dirt Gallery, Hollywood, CA, USA
2002 “Charles Krafft’s Villa Delirium”, Grand Central Art Center, Cal. State University, Fullerton, CA, USA
Porcelain War Museum”, Copro Nason Gallery, Los Angeles, CA, USA
2001 “Charles Krafft’s Villa Delirium”, Cont. Art Center, Cincinnati, OH, USA
1999 Defense Ministry, Ljubljana, Slovenia
1994 Metropolitan Mobile Museum, Seattle, WA, USA
1993 Garth Clark Galleries, New York, NY, USA
Two Bells Tavern, Seattle, WA, USA
Davidson Galleries, Seattle, WA, USA
Elizabeth Leach Gallery, Portland, OR, USA
1991 Davidson Galleries, Seattle, WA, USA
1989 Davidson Galleries, Seattle, WA, USA
Elizabeth Leach Gallery, Portland, OR, USA
1987 Davidson Galleries, Seattle, WA, USA
1986 Cafe Counter Intelligence, Seattle, WA, USA
1983 The Francine Seders Gallery, Seattle, WA, USA
1982 The Meeting Place in the Market, Seattle, WA, USA
1981 The1429 Grant Avenue Gallery, San Francisco, CA, USA
1980 The Junior League Offices, Seattle, WA, USA
1979 The 1429 Grant Avenue Gallery, San Francisco, CA, USA
1978 The Foster/White Gallery, Seattle, WA, USA
1976 The Foster/White Gallery, Seattle, WA, USA
1975 The Nagatani Gallery, Burlington, WA, USA
1974 The Polly Friendlander Gallery, Seattle, WA, USA
1971 The Polly Friendlander Gallery, Seattle, WA, USA
1969 The Richard White Gallery, Seattle, WA, USA

Group shows....many more.
More...
Posted by Bob Rini http://bobrinimakesart.blogspot.com/ on February 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM · Report this
200
True story--Charles Krafft told me he cried when he saw Schindler's List.
Posted by Robert Boyd http://thegreatgodpanisdead.blogspot.com/ on February 18, 2013 at 1:24 PM · Report this
199
As much as I despise all Mr. Krafft is and creates, he has the right to make his art, as stated many times in this commentary-like it or not. What we do not have to do is show it, buy it, celebrate it, or accept it. What is disturbing in this article (besides the obvious) is the fact that Jen is using this as a way to smear an artist. Certainly a critical assessment of the validity and worthiness of his body of work would have been appropriate here if this were her intention instead of this approach. She is an art critic after all. Instead it functions to reinforce exactly why she is and has been such a vindictive and destructive force locally. "Tear everyone down around you to elevate yourself..." as the saying goes.
It also speaks to the self important and ridiculous art world characters involved (Jen Graves, Yoko Ott, among others mentioned) who have celebrated and validated his work so cavalierly without due diligence and scholarship. If they believed it was great, then stand behind it now. Carefully worded and postured statements that change with the wind are not acceptable here. These figures comprise a group that is an unfortunate plague upon the local art scene created by those would have you think they are something they are not. Isn't one of the issues here that all these fools with egg on their faces have been played by a creepy Nazi charlatan while promoting this garbage?
Posted by sticksnstones on February 18, 2013 at 12:40 PM · Report this
samktg 198
@194, Most people treat me like I'm white. I always thought I was white. But I'm Jewish, am I really white? You and the other white supremacists have me so confused.
Posted by samktg on February 18, 2013 at 12:22 PM · Report this
197 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
196 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
195
What I hear is a bunch of paranoid white guys not happy to have most of the power and wanting ALL of the power, as they believe this time-tested status quo should remain.

Then you project your own past behaviours and actions onto the minorities you fear - as if blacks, Latinos, Asians, etc. are going to suddenly take away your rights or create segregation of make you sit at the back of the bus. It's standard right-wing delusional pussydom with an extra dollop of vicious xenophobia and hair-brained hyperbole.
Posted by RPF on February 18, 2013 at 11:20 AM · Report this
194
Dear 193,

First of all, genuine evil does not advertise its intentions.

Second, you are getting your history from the media and not genuine historians with integrity.

For a country - that prior to 1965 - was overwhelmingly white, how the heck did all these minorities get into such a vicious racist country? I see whites bending over backwards for minorities. Do a people really change that much in so little time? No matter what we do, we are vilified. Is it really unnatural for one to look out for their own group? Do blacks and browns and yellows not do this? You destroy a nation by destroying its history and culture. The sad part is that too many whites went along with the game. Would you give up your own personal job for a minority? You talk the sacrifice but do you walk the walk? I bet you expect another white to do it for you. Do you pay the price for your altruism or are others doing it for you. It is not a matter of hating, it is a matter of loving your own more, and what is wrong with that? I wish no harm to anyone but I also want my people to succeed and flourish. They are being dispossessed and destroyed and, the sad part is, they are doing it to themselves. I can assure you, these minorities you protect will never, ever return the favor. You may find an individual here or there but as a group, never!

I am tired of any white that defends himself/herself automatically being branded a racist, nazi, or some other derogatory term. nly whites can be racist. And, the worst part is more of the time it is another white doing the branding. If that isn't a sure sign of a mad, mad world, then I do not know what is. The enemy has found a weakness in the white man and, boy, is it a doozy. It is being used to its full potential!

Getting back to my post above, my point was if 6 million Jews were supposedly killed by Hitler and there weren't even 6 million Jews in that area of Europe at that time, where the heck are all these survivor stories coming from? Everywhere you turn there is a holocaust surviver. The numbers don't jive.

If you connect the dots, there are holes in the official story. That 6 million figure first started appearing decades after the war ended. Of course, it was a holocaust just for Jews and not the other 6 million or more that were supposedly killed by Hitler. Hitler was funded by the Rothschilds. Do your homework. Start with the Balfour Declaration and go from there. The Rotschilds needed Jews in Israel.

It's a vacuum. Get out of the vacuum. The average Jew is just as much a victim of this charade as the average non-Jew.

Not only is our history controlled, our reality is controlled, too. I just ask people to investigate things themselves. I only want the truth. I would hope everyone does.

Lastly, would you know a communist if you were looking at one?
More...
Posted by SeekingReality on February 18, 2013 at 11:01 AM · Report this
193
Dear 189
What really is your point, numbers?
You say 6 million fled? To where?
If 6 million jews fled somewhere then they would still be there, right?
So, where exactly are you saying they all went?
Do you have any record of where they all went?
There should be records of 6 million people crossing borders and going somewhere?
Isn't that a fair and reasonable question?
Or are you only "speculating",?
Saying "supposedly" is not much of an argument because you end up making a "conclusion without any supporting facts".
Bearing in mind that it was not only jews that were sent to the "camps, but is it any less horrific if it was "only" 3 million? Or "only 1 million? etc...
It is interesting that so many of the "supporters" of Charlie who say that he isn't a "racist" or a" Nazi" white supremacist are people who speak also in support of Hitler's war policies, despise Martin Luther King, Jr , rave on about commies and marxists, , and debate about the number of civilians who were slaughtered by the Hitler regime.
"Why is that interesting?"?
Well , because none of that has anything to do with the subject matter of the Jen article.
Of course it also reveals why the Jen article is a worthy subject matter
Posted by caear on February 18, 2013 at 1:24 AM · Report this
192
I love all the Stormfront shills here saying things like "My JEWISH fiance told me..." or "My JEWISH friends say..." Or "I read/researched and it said..." but offer no actual citations. Fucking strawman arguments everywhere. Highlarious.
Posted by FagsSuckDick on February 17, 2013 at 4:42 PM · Report this
Posted by nemofred on February 17, 2013 at 3:26 PM · Report this
190
We've all been brainwashed into policing each other. Terms like racist, Nazi, bigot, homophobe, etc. have all been imbedded in your brains by The Establishment which sets the norms for our society. It's the first thing you cry when someone steps outside the box. Stop expecting others to think just like you and sometimes people have non-hateful but legitimate beliefs that they just don't want or like things that you do. Who makes you right? You all sound like assembly line idiots who don't have an independent thought in your heads.
Posted by SeekingReality on February 17, 2013 at 2:26 PM · Report this
189
Supposedly 6 million Jews were killed by Hitler and from all the Holocaust survivor stories I've read, it appears close to another 6 million fled Hitler. Now, according to historical demographics, there weren't even 6 million Jews in that part of Europe. So, if we were to go by these numbers alone, there's something fishy about the number of Jewish Holocaust casualties. Think for yourself and stop getting your thoughts from the media!

Read up on the Balfour Treaty and you'll start to understand the whole charade.
Posted by SeekingReality on February 17, 2013 at 2:17 PM · Report this
188
184
You say this is "anti-Nazi'?
"Jen found it impossible to imagine that the swastikas on Krafft's work might reflect genuine spite toward Jews—i.e., that there might not be so much difference between Krafft's swastikas and Hitler's."
Well, she sure doesn't say a word about "Nazis" there , and that statement says nothing "anti Nazi".
Can't you read and understand English?
By the way , do you know what an "allegation without supporting facts " is?
Well, you make a number of them, so you should try to figure out what it means.
IE "proof of his communist ideology and training is right in front of their eyes"
I never once heard MLK speak out in favor of state control of the means of production, which is the essence of Marxism. Have you?
So do you mind if i ASK ? where is this "proof"?
It may be before your eyes but it is not before mine..
And while you are at it, why are you talking about Martin Luther King instead of the subject at hand?
You got a hang up about "philandering", like 183 apparently does?
Who really cares about that?
Maybe people like J Edgar Hoover who lived with a man and allegedly wore womens clothing?
Are you one of those? Or are you just a racist?
And to 183, thanks , you made my point
Posted by caear on February 17, 2013 at 2:04 PM · Report this
187
Charles Kraft is no "Nazi," nor "neo-Nazi." But Seattlers do have a genuine, self-styled neo-Nazi in your midst: one Harold Covington who gives a Seattle address for his Northwest Front headquarters. Miss Jen was scooped last week by a reporter of similar ilk, but in Ireland, in an article about your fellow Seattler (with photographs) here:http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/this-guy-wants-to-start-his-own-aryan-country?utm_source=vicetwitter

Covington quoted: "What we advocate is basically the establishment of a sovereign, independent nation in the Pacific Northwest [headquartered in Seattle] as a homeland for all white people. Kind of like the white version of Israel."

And, true to form, the SPLC watchdogs have reported on this Covington character as well, even with a picture of him in his homemade neo-Nazi uniform: http://legacysplc.wwwsplcenter.org/intel…

"[T]he man many neo-Nazis call "Weird Harold" recently wrote three self-published novels in which he reimagines the Pacific Northwest as a 'whites-only' homeland."

Shouldn't Miss Jen be interviewing the Seattler "Weird Harold" who admits to being a neo-Nazi rather than smearing Charlie as one when he denies it?
Posted by Will Williams on February 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM · Report this
186
In reading through the first 70 comments, the "anti-haters/anti-racists" called Mr. Krafft - asshole, shit, hater, scum, sadist, boor, crap, bigot, part of the diseased white race etc, etc. Maybe these people are credible anti-racists (i.e. anti-white) but I don't think they're credible anti-haters. Mr. Krafft sounds like an interesting fellow, though.
Posted by chas martel on February 17, 2013 at 11:16 AM · Report this
185
See something? SAY something!

Here're the options for listing yourself as Christian in the personals in the Stranger:

Christian/Catholic
Christian Scientist
Christian/Protestant
Christian/Hateful
Christian/Wacko
I am The Christ

Note that this is the only religion that the Stranger feels free to bash. Jews are left alone, as are Muslims. Says a lot about what the Stranger values, and why they are attacking any thought that veers from the liberal norm.

All the artists I've talked to find Graves' article despicable. They think it shows a breathtaking lack of sophistication and understanding. It has long been common knowledge that six millions Jews were NOT exterminated in WWII in Germany, so why does Graves badger Krafft about this? It seems that he was more than gracious in the face of her ignorance.

Artists and gallery owners should henceforth avoid Graves like the plague for behaving like a common bureaucratic snitch. Why not look into the matter before denouncing artists for their many faceted explorations into the forbidden? Krafft is exploring prohibited truths and hidden knowledge. Here's a good starting point:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/02/17/…

One must ask: Why does Grave feel compelled to denounce this artist? Is she being pressured, or is it entirely the fault of her guilelessly receiving the Holocaust as historically delivered, a construction that even my Jewish friends detest? (My Jewish fiance once called Schindler's List "Shoa Business" -- his words.)

In the future, Graves would do well to conduct some research before engaging in denunciation of artists for thought crimes.
Posted by Scholastici on February 17, 2013 at 11:09 AM · Report this
184
@ Caear: "All I see is a reporting of the views expressed by Mr. Krafft. Could you point it out please, if it exists? And, unlike you, and I have looked repeatedly, but I don't see a single thing in the Jen article that is "anti-Nazi". Where is that? Could you point it out please, if it exists?'
---

Well, since you say please, Jen "found it impossible to imagine that the swastikas on Krafft's work might reflect genuine spite toward Jews—i.e., that there might not be so much difference between Krafft's swastikas and Hitler's."

There you have it. Charley was born after Mr. Hitler was dead and gone and his National-Socialist movement vanquished by the Communist/Democratic coalition, yet Miss Jen wants to paint the Buddhist hippie, described here by those who know him to be honest and not racist, as a Hitlerian Holocaust Denier.

How many in the MSM would dare characterize Saint Martin as a Marxist or Stalinist or associate him with the hammer and cycle, even if the proof of his communist ideology and training is right in front of their eyes?
Posted by Will Williams on February 17, 2013 at 9:24 AM · Report this
183
@ 181-2: "How should I know why the FBI seals a file or covers something up?...[C]could be they just want to cover up what THEY themselves have done, you should know that."
---

I do know about FBI coverups. Ruby Ridge, Waco, Fast & Furious; there's not shortage of them.

You are right, Mr. Caear, the Famous But Incompetent could well be covering up its illegal practices employed during the 1950s and 1960s to uncover communist subversion in the United States. Its COINTELPRO program to infiltrate and provoke "extremist" organizations was supposedly discontinued in 1971 due to public outrage at such practices.

Since then however, this role of selective intelligence-gathering on innocent American citizens -- without probable cause -- has been taken up for the most part by quasi official "watchdog" groups such as the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) and Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). These watchdogs work hand-in-hand with the FBI and DOJ to marginalize and destroy any White Americans whose views they hate by labeling them as "haters," or anti-Semites, or "Nazis." Surely you've noticed their routine by now.

Journalists like Miss Jen use the ADL and SPLC as sources in their reports about so-called "Nazis" like Charley.

Had you read the expose of Saint Martin's communist involvement and philandering that I linked to above you'd have a clue as to why his FBI file is closed until 2027:
---

"It was not some "right-winger" who had King's office and hotel rooms bugged. This order was signed by then U.S. Attorney General Bobby Kennedy on Oct. 10, 1963. Evidence proved that King was under the direct orders of Soviet spies and financed by the Communist Party. The Kennedy tapings continued for 5 years and also developed shocking revelations regarding King's sexual practices."
---

@ caear: "To call this a 'hit piece' is goofy when all it does is report what he himself writes and says."
---

If you Google 'Charles Wing Craft', up comes his bio on Wikipedia, with the following quote which is linked back to Jen's article in this week's edition of The Stranger:

---
"Krafft has, as of late, come under scrutiny for his involvement with white supremacist groups and his denial of official figures and information regarding the Holocaust. This has been especially important to his reputation as an artist...[6]"
---

"His involvement with White supremacists groups?" "His denial of...The Holocaust." Oh, my! That's the takeaway of Jen's understated hit piece by some Wiki writer. Could that be calculated to have the Wiki reader see visions gas ovens and piles of skinny, naked Jews? Could be, unless Charley the "Supremacist Holocaust Denier" gets a platform to fully defend himself from such a critique of his art.

More...
Posted by Will Williams on February 17, 2013 at 9:13 AM · Report this
182
To 173, Will Williams.
How should I know why the FBI seals a file or covers something up?
It equally well could be they are covering up something THEY did. Why speculate?
And unlike you, after repeatedly double checking, I don't see a single "anti-Nazi" comment in the Jen article.
Where is it? You say it's there! Point it out!
All I see is a straight ahead reporting of Mr. Kraffts openly expressed view.
That' s not "anti" anything!
To call this a "hit piece" is goofy when all it does is report what he himself writes and says.
Posted by caear on February 17, 2013 at 1:35 AM · Report this
181
173
Will Williams.
Why dont you ask the FBI, how could I possibly know?
You can speculate anything.
It equally could be they just want to cover up what THEY themselves have done, you should know that.
And, unlike you, and I have looked repeatedly, but I don't see a single thing in the Jen article that is "anti-Nazi".
Where is that?
Could you point it out please, if it exists?
All I see is a reporting of the views expressed by Mr. Krafft.
To report his own stated views is not "anti" anything.
To call this a "hit piece" is goofy!
He himself openly presents these views so what's wrong with reporting them?
Posted by caear on February 17, 2013 at 1:27 AM · Report this
samktg 180
As far as Jews go, I am fairly kind. Therefore, I would like to take a moment to inform all of you defending Krafft (and all of you properly disgusted – for good measure), that your IP address, name, home-phone, bank account, social security #, zip code, and dental records have been logged in our central Ziobank database.

Further violations will be met with corresponding punitive measures. For more information, see Protocols of the Elders of Zion sect. 3, sub-sect. Aleph.
Posted by samktg on February 16, 2013 at 11:36 PM · Report this
179
Does it matter what his views are?
Posted by wabbits on February 16, 2013 at 8:53 PM · Report this
178
Jello said it best, Nazi Punks, Fuck Off!
Posted by soggydan on February 16, 2013 at 8:06 PM · Report this
177
"Anyone who thinks that their supposed 'race' is something important that needs to be protected is a mental midget no matter what sort of elaborate arguments they can come up with as justification"

Are you including Jews? Have you told them that?
Posted by Toot Otto Toot on February 16, 2013 at 7:22 PM · Report this
176
That's what I said earlier. Charlie got old, but he never got wise.
Posted by Fred Owens on February 16, 2013 at 5:19 PM · Report this
175
Permit me to reply to the racism with ageism. Maybe he's just old... Desperate to be relevant, and playing the role of crank as a natural part of some kind of slow, relatively high-functioning dementia. Mini strokes, Alzheimer's, etc can all manifest this way. Add in the pre-existing seed of anti-political correctness and bam - crackpot cocktail.
Posted by nullbull on February 16, 2013 at 5:07 PM · Report this
seanmichaelhurley 174
I'm tending to strongly agree with #162 here. I too have known Charlie for many years; I've had him to my home and I will continue to extend that invitation. I made up my mind about Charles long ago, when he calmly described abandoning his wife and son to enter that vaunted LaConner-hippie phase of his life. Such a choice was and remains anathema to me, but I saw then that this was truly a student of Buddhism, merely filtered through a distinctly Nietzchian prism; I felt that I could either judge him, or embrace and hope to understand --- or at least contextualize --- him. I chose the latter, and I'm happy I did, because he is a complex man, and so few really are. He has a different relationship to history than people who are principally unconcerned with posterity, as Charles very passionately (in his curious, dispassionate fashion) is. I know he enjoys all this, which is as satisfying as it is perverse.

A short anecdote: Charlie and I sat in the living room of some well-known collectors who, incidentally, have a version of the Hitler-teapot pictured in this article sitting on a mantle; he casually mentioned that he was thinking about building a to-scale version of a gas-chamber out of Torahs. We laughed and laughed and laughed. Afterwards, I was -- as I remain --- deeply ambivalent about this episode.
Posted by seanmichaelhurley http://seanmichaelhurley.blogspot.com on February 16, 2013 at 5:03 PM · Report this
173
Tell me, Mr. Caear, why is the Reverend Doctor Martin Luther Coon's -- that's a good one -- why is his FBI file sealed until the year 2027? Could there be inconvenient truths in his file from which Americans need to be shielded?

Maybe Jen will next investigate that mystery to show she's as anti-Red as she is anti-"NAZI." She could use sources like this Christian one that has already done a lot of the legwork for her: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/ki…
Posted by Will Williams on February 16, 2013 at 3:01 PM · Report this
172
This entire article strikes me as very ignorant - this writer has not even attempted to research Krafft's ideologies and is evaluating from an outsider's viewpoint in hopes to come across as 'politically correct'.

Krafft is a very intelligent, friendly and caring man. Please do more research into these issues before going into attack mode.
Posted by cosmicsunset on February 16, 2013 at 3:01 PM · Report this
171
Further to 170, it seems clear by the White Nationalists' windmill-tilting posts here that at the very least the charges of possessing a paranoid mindset seem accurate. When you can't back up claims of everyone here being part of some Jewish conspiracy - or being Jewish operatives(?) - or won't respond to valid questions, just start making up stuff.
Posted by Bic on February 16, 2013 at 2:33 PM · Report this
170
To 168:
You say, "these fools seem to think it is OK to be a Artist and profess admiration for Stalin, Mao and Communism".
But Ive read all the comments as well as the article more than once and i don't see a single person saying any of that.
Could you please point it out to me if I missed it?
I also don't see anybody objecting to "free speech" or free thought for Mr Krafft. Nobody said that either .
Nobody has questioned ones right to say or think , the only question has been WHAT Mr Kraftt has said, not his "right" to say it.
Are you hallucinating this or can you point out something Ive missed?
Posted by caear on February 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM · Report this
169
Just can't get The Damned song "Smash It Up" out of my head this morning.
Posted by janabrevick on February 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM · Report this
168
The comments here have become silly, those that are attacking Charlie are void of logic and reason. For some odd reason, these fools seem to think it is OK to be a Artist and profess admiration for Stalin, Mao and Communism and the resulting millions more that perished and were enslaved for decades. I might also add these same fools will protest for "Free Speech and Thought", BUT NOT for Charlie Krafft. Hypocrits all of you, please report for duty on Orwell's Animal Farm.
Posted by World_View on February 16, 2013 at 11:23 AM · Report this
167
162
Hitler was a painter, and he "liked dogs and children", he was also a "provocateur". So?

You throw out words like "provacateur", "holocaust revisionist" and "behaviorist" without providing any meaning to them at all.

One might well ask what the point of the "art" is, or the "revision" or the "provocation" or how in the world "behaviorism" relates to referring to MLK a Martin Luther Coon?
Lastly, I havent seen a word here to suggest that anybody challenges one's "right" to think or believe whatever they do believe, thats not an issue.
Posted by caear on February 16, 2013 at 10:30 AM · Report this
166
Krafft is a Jewish name.
Posted by Arroyo View on February 16, 2013 at 9:23 AM · Report this
165
I like to think of the historical importance of art in preserving ideas of our time. when people blame artists for promoting ideas, I think they get it wrong. things happen first, then artists reflect, and express. in an historical context, it's true of our time that we have deep racism and people clinging to these ideas. I don't think it lessens the importance of his work.
Posted by MsNunYaBidness on February 16, 2013 at 8:32 AM · Report this
164
Anyone who thinks that their supposed"race" is something important that needs to be protected is a mental midget no matter what sort of elaborate arguments they can come up with as justification
Posted by bum scratch on February 16, 2013 at 8:19 AM · Report this
163
Of course he has a right to his views. And he has a right to express them. And people have the right to be offended, to express that, and to refuse to continue to support his work if they so choose. All these false fucking sanctimonious cries of "thought crime! freedom of speech!" in relation to people criticizing his views are disgusting and intellectually dishonest. So a man who survived a horror of genocide thinks that people with the same ideology should be jailed. Can you blame him? Are his views actually the law? Would they, at least in the US, become law? No. And by the eloquence of some of these protests, most of you must know it. I agree Krafft shouldn't be thrown in jail or beaten or fined, but the rest of the outrage is fair enough. You should be ashamed to resort to such intellectually bankrupt tactics. Bloody shameful.
Posted by unananonymous on February 16, 2013 at 4:57 AM · Report this
162
First off I'd like to thank Jen for her thinly veiled hit piece. I'm sure Charlie appreciates it.

I've known Sir Charles for over a decade. I've never known him to be anything but true to himself, true to me, true to those we 've tripped across in our perigrinations. He's a generous spirit and has friends of many races and religions, including Jews. He is not a racist; like most of us, he is a "behaviorist".

I agree with very few of his views. We argue often. But he has a right to those views and to express them freely. Much of what he does & says is about ALL of us keeping those rights, about pushing back the evil of Political Correctness & the same kinds of socialist policies that Hitler used to silence Germans before bringing a darkness upon the world. Charlie is not some secret Hitlerite trying to plant Nazi propaganda under the guise of irony. The man IS Irony, fools! He laughed at some dolt curator, so what? He laughs at everyone, including himself!

He is not a Holocaust Denier. He is a Holocaust revisionist who wants the truth, whole truth and nothing but the truth told. Since when have the authors of history, the winners, ever told the whole truth? That the reactions against his positions are so visceral, is in no small measure what drives him.

Charlie is a provacateur, and you have been provoked.

Stand by for more. An excellent source tells me he's signed a film deal to do his life story. Organize your boycotts now, weasels! I'm sure he looks forward to it. No matter your views on the man's views, he is both brilliant and fantastically entertaining. You may walk away thinking he's a madman, but I have no doubt you will have had one helluva ride along the way.
Posted by Thought Police Ombudsman on February 16, 2013 at 2:53 AM · Report this
161
About Nazism
NAZISM | NEO-NAZISM | ANTI NAZISM

Nazi Ideology
Key elements of the Nazi ideology

National Socialist Program
Racism
Especially anti-Semitism, which eventually culminated in the Holocaust.
The creation of a Herrenrasse (Master Race= by the Lebensborn (Fountain of Life; A department in the Third Reich)
Anti-Slavism
Belief in the superiority of the White, Germanic, Aryan or Nordic races.
Euthanasia and Eugenics with respect to "Racial Hygiene"
Anti-Marxism, Anti-Communism, Anti-Bolshevism
The rejection of democracy, with as a consequence the ending the existence of political parties, labour unions, and free press.
Führerprinzip (Leader Principle) /belief in the leader (Responsibility up the ranks, and authority down the ranks.)
Strong show of local culture.
Social Darwinism
Defense of Blood and Soil (German: "Blut und Boden" - represented by the red and black colors in the Nazi flag)
"Lebensraumpolitik", "Lebensraum im Osten" (The creation of more living space for Germans)
Related to Fascism
SEE: http://www.nazism.net/about/nazi_ideolog…
Posted by caear on February 16, 2013 at 1:14 AM · Report this
160
To better understand what is happening here ...

http://www.lairdwilcox.com/news/defame.h…
Posted by Thomas Katt on February 15, 2013 at 11:39 PM · Report this
159
More disturbing than Krafft's Art is the idea being floated that certain images upsetting to Jews should be banned, their creators deprived of basic rights.

"Holocaust deniers" rotting in prison in Europe? Organized Jewry wants the same in the USA.

That is why they want to confiscate your guns.
Posted by Soapandlampshadehoax on February 15, 2013 at 10:15 PM · Report this
158
Krafft has long maintained the role of artist-iconoclast here in Seattle, bucking the norms of bourgeois society. In 1970 this could take the form of being a hippie squatter in an abandoned fishing cabin on the Skagit River living a life of Buddhist philosophy, poetry and art. But in an increasingly diverse, tolerant and permissive world where revolutionary acts are immediately appropriated by mainstream liberal humanist culture, his desire for some kind of anti-societal 'purity' - combined with an apparent lack of moral principles - has led him deep into the White Nationalist movement. This absence of morality is most disturbing. He laughs at fooling art world elites by presenting them with work that seems to suggest discursiveness when in fact it expresses racial hatred. Such acts of performance art are consistent with the underlying fascist belief that morality is something only for guilt-plagued victims and hypocritical abusers, and that only the person who declares himself free of morality is truly free. It is an odd perversion of Buddhism, to say the least.
Posted by jim.demetre@gmail.com on February 15, 2013 at 8:45 PM · Report this
157
I'd like to know what would be the end goal for White Nationalists, particularly in the U.S.

Extrapolating on what I've read, because there seems to be a shortage of solutions, it would seem to entail forced deportation at best and extermination camps at worst. How else do you turn America 100% white and Jew-free?
Posted by Borg9 on February 15, 2013 at 7:42 PM · Report this
156
Let me get this straight, you liked the swastikas and the hitler teapots at first but then later you learned that the guy that made them is fucked up? Who's fucked up?
Posted by VinLaden on February 15, 2013 at 6:48 PM · Report this
155
Krafft is like talking to a meth head on broadway.
thank god you only emailed him away from his lab. LOL
Posted by jim dandy on February 15, 2013 at 2:48 PM · Report this
154
PS to 142:
Go back further to around 52 BC when Julius Caesar swept through "europe" all the way to what is now England. He encountered a landscape populated by hundreds of tribal groups. He went up into the "germanic" regions too. What you are talking about here really is the tribal history of Europe, which is still present in many ways.
Sure, this evolved into feudal city states and the like, but it was still very present at the end of the 19th century when there was no "germany" or "italy" and even france didnt have a national language but many regional dialects. Tribalism "evolved" into "nationalism" and that was the card Germany played in WW2 to its demise and to the demise of a good deal of wonderful european architecture and lives. If the only reason for this was to reunite the "germans' in Poland with the other "germans" it sure was a costly mistake.
Posted by caear on February 15, 2013 at 2:10 PM · Report this
153
Y'all B Trippin'. Art is a user-controlled experience.

Hilda, I believe I met your ex once at a music festival, you may or may not have been the dame who was accompanying him and his democ-rat chum (the guy with a raging broner for your ex), and I thought he was pretty hilarious. Loud and mouthy (like a woman would be, woops!) and totally not something I went to the festival to experience, but hilarious and witty.
I commend him for that, and his bravery in not shutting up when surrounded by his opposition.

I enjoyed the inner violence he stirred up in those hippies ("you're waaaay out past the darkside of the MOON, man!") by the campfire as the festival ended.

BUT, his "black voice" left MUCH to be desired.

I dig Charlie's Kraffts. His work is a day-glo poppy flower against the bland avalanche of "social justice" art (which SELLS, art is mostly a capital-generating commodity after all) produced by the established "anti-establishment" meme that is so prevalent in the art world these days. To censor his presence, ESPECIALLY in the art world, would be an act of psychological self-castration. Art shouldbe/IS conflict. Conflict is the motor that turns the (sun)wheel of existence and reality. If you don't dig his views, don't dig 'em. But don't go around throwing around the "degenerate art" label at things you don't agree with. Last I heard, that's a, like, fascist thing.

-J
Posted by J.NADA on February 15, 2013 at 1:55 PM · Report this
152
Dear 142
I fully understand that the way WW1 was ended factored into the causes of WW2. I don't see what that has to do with the current subject however.
Many "borders" in the world are arbitrary. But there is a general understanding we know as "international law" that has at least some validity.
Just because people of German ethnicity or DNA are across a designated border is not justification for seizing that territory by war.
If that were the case then Mexico would be justified to retake the American SW. And China could lay claim to every "chinatown" in the USA.
Anyway, Germany invaded other places without anysuch "justification". They sure didn't invade Russia because there were some Germans there! Or the Netherlands, or Belgium, etc.
England landed troops in Norway not to take and occupy Norway but as part of the war against Germany. Germany invaded to occupy and control, so that's a rather silly and inconsequential point for you to make.
Why are you asking me to tell you the "why's" of these things?
IT has nothing to do with the subject matter of whether our Charlie is a Nazi and a Racist, or not. Since the "subject" is quite open about his views they are worthy of being shared. Why not?
Posted by caear on February 15, 2013 at 1:41 PM · Report this
151
150- why do Nations feel the need to jail or kill people for criticizing Islam? Why does the laws against insulting Islam not bother people as much as the laws abotu Holocaust denial.
Posted by Andrew S. on February 15, 2013 at 1:15 PM · Report this
150
May I ask why is it necessary in many Nations to Jail people, Fine them into poverty, and leave them unable to provide for their children for the sole crime of voicing the the words, "I do not belive the holocaust story" OR for writing a book that questions the conventional "Holocaust" narrative? Anything that requires force to hammer it into the heads of people and punishes people for questioing it in this way, has serious flaws and REQUIRES questioning. By the way, there are many, including Elie Wessel, who wants these types of Laws put in place in the United States. I would like to know how many here are truly willing to legislate "Thought Crime". This is waht many of you are doing, it is dangerous.
Posted by World_View on February 15, 2013 at 1:08 PM · Report this
149
144 THANK YOU ... I’ve been disturbed by the “outing” of Charles Kraftt ... I’m a Jew whose grandmother’s family fled Poland prior to WWII so obviously I don’t agree with his views, BUT I totally support his right to have them. I don’t know what Ms Graves' desired outcome is but I’m hoping she hasn’t destroyed the lively hood of a man in his 60’s. I think this is whole thing is shitty and my view of The Stranger as a credible source for news and opinion has certainly been diminished greatly. Is Ms Graves going to become the thought police .. interviewing artists to make sure their views are in line with her own? I understand that since Charles’ work involves Nazi imagery where he is coming from is integral to understanding his work, obviously he is honest about this. I just think it’s incumbent on the viewer/buyer/gallerist to understand work. Perhaps if Charles had a show up and The Stranger was reviewing it, this would be relevant. I’m curious why now and to what end?
Posted by olive oyl on February 15, 2013 at 1:06 PM · Report this
148
That's the problem with ironic racism/sexism/homophobia in art- it only works as long as the intent of the artist is clear (and has to be constantly reiterated to anyone who views it)... when it's not (or, in this case turns out to be false) you're suddenly just an idiot with a swastika on your wall who unwittingly gave money to a Holocaust denier.

And I gotta say, the schadenfreude is DELICIOUS.
Posted by UNPAID COMMENTER on February 15, 2013 at 12:58 PM · Report this
147
Ms. Walker, what is it you said about white males getting away with racism and sexism that isn't true for blacks of both genders?
Posted by Andrew S. on February 15, 2013 at 12:51 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 146
@143: that's 'Stasi', dumbshit.
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on February 15, 2013 at 12:51 PM · Report this
145
@114/Kara- You said "But I don't think this is the first time this has happened, that a successful white male artist is proven to have racist sexist ideas!"
And a black male artist have never been proven to be racist or sexist? Ever heard of Amari Baraka? Chuck D? Michael Jackson (recording lyrics using "Jew" as a pergorative), Chris Brown, etc etc?

"It never fails to surprise me how willing some folks are to render such racism invisible."
I don't see black folks up in arms about Democratic incumbent Marion Barry calling Asians "dirty" and saying they should be cleansed from his district, or Patricia McCallister an OWS protester who says Jews should be ethnically cleansed from America (Ms McCallister is also a member of the AME Church as a video of her crying about black suffering on MLK Jr Day at her church can be found on youtube), Jerimaih Wright bragging about telling his grandchildren "the Jews" won't let him talk to Obama (and the statement of support he got from those higher up in the church), or Nikki Tinker and her black clurgy supporters saying they shouldn't vote for her Jewish competator because "the Jews hate Jesus". Then there is the NAACP, Tavis Smiley, Jesse Jackson, and black student and civil groups openly promoting the virulent bigot Louis Farrakhan and getting a free pass. There is even a photo of Michelle Obama posing with Farrakhan's wife. Bet if Biden's wife posed for a photo with David Duke's wife it would not get a free pass. Was Al Sharpton ever held accoutnable for helping to provoke the anti-Jewish and anti-Asian pogroms in the 90's? Are those even called "hate crimes" by black folks? Answer that Ms. Walker. What Charles Krafft said is horrible and I don't defend it. Yet blacks can say things just as horrible about Asians and Jews and still be called "civil rights" leaders as long as they believe in affirmative action. Did I mention academics such as Leonard Jeffries and Tony Martin? Wasn't Amari Baraka offered a teaching position at Ivy League colleges while writing poetry praising the Holocaust? Don't remember blacks objecting to that.
More...
Posted by andrewsullar on February 15, 2013 at 12:49 PM · Report this
144
I'm not here to defend Charlie Krafft, he is quite capable of doing that himself even if he is in India at the mercy of 3rd world internet cafe's. What strikes me about this article is the emphasis on political correctness and that I find more chilling that some lunatic political viewpoint. Are we to look forward to seeing a statement of an artists political beliefs along with an artists statement at future artshows? I hope not. Isn't art about being a meritocracy where artistic talent supersedes age, race, gender, class, religion and other nationalist, class and cultural definers? Charlie developed an interest in Holocaust Deniers originally because Holocaust Denial became a punishable by imprisonment "thought crime" recently in several Western European nations. A crime for what you think and say. In the United States we honor the idea that "I may not agree with what you say but i defend your right to say it"! Having watched Charlie's body of artwork develop over the years I was taken by the repeated idea of challenging prevailing wisdom and political correctness no matter what the topic; Evolution, 911, WMD, Louis Farrakhan, medication, gender issues, etc. There are many in the age of the internet who investigate all topics in order to find some form of truth. Charlie's research, obviously controversial and despicable for some, is in fact a search for truth. As a provocateur he has made us rethink or reassert our beliefs. That's a good thing in its own way. Attacking an artists artwork in the press because of their "supposed" political beliefs a very dubious thing. I fear we have continued up the politically correct path that leads to its own brand of fascism. My historical research in the 70's on the origins of fascism made me painfully aware of how popular in fact both Mussolini and Hitler were with the new thinkers of that era. These two non-smoking vegetarian health nut leaders led the world to an abyss but they didn't do it alone; they had enumerable followers who destroyed anyone who didn't believe in their view of the world, their view of art, their view of science, their view of history. Is that where we are headed today? Again?
More...
Posted by chapala21 on February 15, 2013 at 11:50 AM · Report this
143
Chilling article. Here we see the contemporary creep toward "outting" those who think differently from the liberal norm. Kraftt should be extremely cautious from now on, though perhaps it is too late. The whispers, the insinuations, the gossip . . . and now this, the "expose" by a cheap and small minded journalist which will lead to his certain demise.

Make no mistake. Museums are funded in part by very wealthy Jewish patrons, and they will see to it that Kraftt's art is buried or removed from the basements of numerous collections. He will be outted and destroyed. Directors will bend easily to these dictates.

Jen Graves is the perfect example of a contemporary Stazi operative, outting those whose views are politically unfashionable, even if received through sincere, tireless work that can be easily cited through a simple academic review of current literature.

Look at what happened to Pound. It will happen again. WATCH and follow what happens to Kraftt's work from this point forward. The systemic destruction of his work and his career will be complete, it will take place very quietly, led by Jewish donors.

Krafft will have the last bitter laugh -- seeing his work destroyed by a Jewish cabal of wealthy donors -- here blazingly represented in our own local media. The destruction of his career will be a testament to the truth and validity of his claims. And we can thank the bigoted, anti-Christian Stranger for getting this vile witch hunt in motion.
Posted by veritastoday on February 15, 2013 at 11:21 AM · Report this
142
@134 & 135, You bring up points while "missing" others, this is very selective. The Eastern German Provinces of Danzig/West Prussia were German Lands and were 98% German. These Lands were German even before official German Unification as you cite. The borders were as you cite were fraudulently remade after WWI. You still fail to address why England and France did nothing about the Soviet Invasion of Poland in 1939? Remember Poland was invaded by TWO Nations in 1939. Your statements about ONLY Germany invading Nations is incorrect. England landed troops in Norway BEFORE Germany. Then of course there was the English actions in Iraq and Iran because those peoples did not like the English. Can you kindly provide a reply as to why England and France guaranteed Polands borders in 1939 and yet only decalred war on Germany, who had a legitimate issue with Poland, the Soviets inavaded just for a land grab. As to renewed German investigations in to German partisan activities, what can I say, Post War Germany remains a vassel State and would rather pay off screamers. The United States rarely pays such claims. By the way, the anniversary of Dresden was the other day, you know when the British and Americans purposely targeted a non-military City full of Refugees and fire-bombed that city and mass-murdered over 100,000 women, children and old people. 2 days after the bombing, 80,000 were already on the missing person lists.
By the way, is it OK for an artist to be a devout Communist and admire Stalin?
Posted by World_View on February 15, 2013 at 11:05 AM · Report this
141
See the remarks from Charlie's old friend and independent press Feral House's head honcho Adam Parfrey here: http://feralhouse.com/the-seattle-blow-u…
Posted by Feral House on February 15, 2013 at 10:45 AM · Report this
140
A genuine, not a mythical holocaust* occurred 68 years ago this week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-ONKg5ci…

*holocaust [ˈhɒləˌkɔːst] n
1. great destruction or loss of life or the source of such destruction, esp fire

Remember Dresden!
Posted by Will Williams on February 15, 2013 at 8:59 AM · Report this
139
More kvetching about uppity gentiles! Meanwhile, the Shabbos Goy cry Witch!, because their history isn't being told in their favorite bedtime story manner.

Meanwhile, the crocodile tears never stop flowing, though only Palestinians and Persians seem to dislike the salty taste.

Germany for the Germans? No thankyou, you might make us fire up the B17's again.

White Australia? I think I'll pass.

1924 Immigration act: American's helping hand in the Shoah: a sin that will never be completely atoned.

Palestine for the Jews? No people more deserving. Please, have unlimited access to the U.S. treasury, and tell us who'd you like us to invade!
Posted by thoughtcriminal on February 15, 2013 at 8:53 AM · Report this
138
@137

So what you're saying is that the holocaust never happened and that Jews control the world?

Hmmm, interesting. I've never really heard that until now. Thanks for the info!
Posted by Bic on February 15, 2013 at 7:49 AM · Report this
137
Always the issue is whether or not somebody is a "Holocaust denier" and never is the issue the truthfullness of the dogmatic assertions of the Holocaust that a) precisely 6 million were gassed or murdered or died of typhus or what was it exactly, hold on while I check my Talmud for the answer... b) there were homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz and Treblinka or wait was it just Auschwitz and of course the gas chamber there is reconstructed as it was admittedly a bomb shelter towards teh end but lets not get nitpicky ok c) Hitler ordered the mass murder of his Jewish slaves even though he was under acute labor shortage and spent precious fuel shipping them to slave labor camps where they spent more resources actually gassing them rather than just shooting them which is what the Turks did to a million or so Armenians or 800K but nobody ever gets called an Armenian holocaust denier since armenians are not powerful like jews oops did I just slander them or compliment them? pay no mind the point is Hitler ordered it even though there is no such written order anywhere and he always wrote his major strategic orders down. Well anyhow that is Holocaust dogma so if you deny it you get the Holocaust Inquisition instead of any kind of chance to have the historical question revisited seriously. So the marxist thought police are alive and well policiing ideas here, alive and well. Kraftt is now designated for fatwa, or should I say, din rodeff?-- A.E.
Posted by Antiochus on February 15, 2013 at 7:28 AM · Report this
136
oops,
I meant to reply to 123 for both of my above 2 comments
Posted by caear on February 15, 2013 at 7:03 AM · Report this
135
PS to 102:
The German "retribution" to non combatant French civilians is not a dead issue.
As we speak the German govt is conducting an investigation into the events at Oradour-sur-Glane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur…
and indictments are expected to be issued for war crimes against a number of surviving former German soldiers who took part in that massacre.
Of course this sort of thing pales in comparison to other such atrocities such as the over 10,000 jewish children under 5 years old that were taken from Parisian schools and sent to "camps", never to return. Apparently they were not just "summer camps".
The French kept very good records of all this.
They show over 40,000 jewish children under 5 years old from all over France were sent to these "camps".
When speaking of a huge "holocaust" it is important to remember that these things were very local events at the time, not "millions", "just" hundreds or thousands.
Arguing about the numbers obscures the real personal horror of it all.
Posted by caear on February 15, 2013 at 3:17 AM · Report this
134
Dear 102:
What business? Why? Why does it matter? The borders were in place and recognized.
You appear to be saying that Poland was ""German land"?
Germany didn't even exist as a nation until the end of the 19th century and when it did exist those lands were NOT part of Germany.
Germany knew of the British and French treaties prior to invading Poland so they also knew that the invasion would be considered an Act of War against Britain and France. You seemed to justify the invasion and occupation of France by the fact that they honored their treaty with Poland?
The only country that invaded and occupied other peaceful countries during WW2 was Germany and this was all in contravention of the current Geneva Conventions.
That is the "history".
You apparently share Mr. Krafft's view that these invasions and occupations of other countries by Germany was "OK", correct?

You may notice, I haven't taken sides,I've only pointed out the fact, but I believe that people with your view were considered to be "traitors" in the USA back then.
A for "racism", YES! By all means lets discuss all those things you mention, please, go ahead and talk about it!

Posted by caear on February 15, 2013 at 1:29 AM · Report this
133
@#78 (Steven Loeb) So your solution is that "his art should be smashed at the Town Square and he should be shunned from now on. Any museum that continues to show it should be defunded"? You may not like hearing this but you come across as a pretty good facist yourself when you write that. No no, let's say that's a GREAT idea. You can make an evening of it & call the event "Krafftallnacht" & afterwards, the mob of all your jackbooted, like-minded compatriots can goosestep over to Charlie's, kick in the door & beat into him the notion that it's A-OK to be intolerant just so long as it's the right kind of intolerant.
Posted by fishmerelda on February 14, 2013 at 11:09 PM · Report this
132
I unfriended Mr. Kraft as soon as I got the jist of his somewhat obfiscated screeds. I had a drink with him once, he was a blowhard. That was 25 years ago. In my time here I have encountered many racists. It is the dirty little secret of people here established in the art world of a certain age, 50 or older.. Typical of the old guard here in my opinion. How many of the established older artists here are willing to condem him for his vile shit? Not enough, and shame on them. And Roc La Rue, get rid of that guy pronto!
Posted by local artist on February 14, 2013 at 10:41 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 131
i bet chuck krafft does not give a flying fuck about any of this.
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on February 14, 2013 at 10:38 PM · Report this
130
I bet Khalid Sheikh Goldberg is CWK.
Posted by Toot Otto Toot on February 14, 2013 at 8:45 PM · Report this
129
As a former Hasidic Jew and committed Zionist, I was recruited (this was prior to my incarceration for eighty-eight counts of fraud and one count of murder, and subsequent conversion to Islam) by the JIDF, to pose as a Neo-Nazi hacker and computer expert. Worried that this may interfere with my religious obligations, I consulted with my Rebbe, wondering if it was legal for me to deceive Gentiles. My Rebbe demurred, and consulted with his reptilian overlords, and reported back to me, that it was in fact good for the Jews, for me to deceive goyim and expose their ugly anti-semitism. I entered into contact with C.Krafft, under the name Prof. Sigurd Totenwelder Esq., and after a few months of correspondence learned that porcelain was not the only thing he wanted to put in ovens.
Posted by Khalid Sheikh Goldberg on February 14, 2013 at 8:43 PM · Report this
128
As a former Hasidic Jew and committed Zionist, I was recruited (this was prior to my incarceration for eighty-eight counts of fraud and one count of murder, and subsequent conversion to Islam) by the JIDF, to pose as a Neo-Nazi hacker and computer expert. I refused their offer as I would have required me to post on internet hate-sites on the Sabbat, but I learned from my interviewer that several prominent white nationalists were G-14 classified inter-dimensional reptilian Kosher agents.
Posted by Khalid Sheikh Goldberg on February 14, 2013 at 8:35 PM · Report this
127
@126julian

Well said. A compelling argument. Also, the Jews.
Posted by Bic on February 14, 2013 at 8:34 PM · Report this
126
Where does "The Stranger" or staff of The Stranger get any moral authority. If the degenerate and corrupt Stranger is against somebody, then there musts be something good and true about them. That's how I'd figure it.
Posted by Julian Curtis Lee on February 14, 2013 at 8:11 PM · Report this
125
This isn't about anti-semitism. Nor is this about an (obviously) anti-semitic artist.

This is about art criticism.
Posted by controlZED on February 14, 2013 at 7:37 PM · Report this
124 Comment Pulled (Trolling) Comment Policy
123
@102, Thank you for your vain attempt at history, but may I ask what business England and France had in a German-Polish territorial matter and regarding polish lands that were German anyhow, West Prussia, Danzig and whose citizens wished to be returned to their homeland anyhow? AND, if England and France were going to defend Poland why did they NOT also declare war on the Soviet Union who also invaded Poland and who ended up with more Polish territory in 1939 than the Germans? As to racism, shall we discuss the Racial policies of the United States at the time, which were far more severe than Germany, ask Jesse Owens, he spoke about it, OR shall we discuss none other than Churchill's racism and the British policies in their Colonies? OR shall we discuss Racial Policies in Israel today that relagate Arabs to 3rd Class Citizens and forbid intertacial marriage? In fact racial law in Israel today makes Germany's 1935 Nuremberg Laws look moderte.
Posted by World_View on February 14, 2013 at 7:22 PM · Report this
122
The mythical Jewish "Holocaust" is definitely exaggerated, and deliberately. Fact!

It's funny seeing artsy-fartsy Seattlers in a huff over Charlie's art now that it's out that he's critical of Yahweh's chosenites -- those who must never, ever be criticized.

“To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize” -Voltaire

"I would not be in the least bit surprised if these people [Jews] would not some day become deadly to the human race." -Voltaire, again (Lettres de Memmius a Ciceron, 1771)
Posted by Will Williams on February 14, 2013 at 6:12 PM · Report this
curtisp 121
The guys work in a shop window is kind of cute, but brillian art? Well that's one opinion.
Posted by curtisp on February 14, 2013 at 6:10 PM · Report this
120
Hildegaard, I was actually doing work! I see you were able to swing a free day to internet through the working hours that hobble us jew-lovers. If you're going to lie about one thing, HILDY, why not all of the other stuff? Your sources are obvious and oblivious. I think you and your ex-squeeze spent a little too much time in the company of some local genius and his associates.

I dismiss your volk's arguments for hate and isolationism, as most reasonable people would. You're entitled to your beliefs, Frau Hildy, but you should know they are unfashionable and outdated, and are relics of a bygone era. In fact, they've been rejected repeatedly by the will and force of the world. I'm still working, so I'll wait until you respond another half dozen or so times before I return.
Posted by Otto Toot Otto on February 14, 2013 at 6:07 PM · Report this
119
lol @ adolph hildegaard responding to himself.
Posted by NazisLoveBlackCock on February 14, 2013 at 5:00 PM · Report this
118

Not that it matters in a society to whom "The Holocaust" is the singular historical event (that Winston Churchill didn't mention once in his monumental compendium on the second world war), but today is the 68th anniversary of a /literal/ holocaust, in which tens upon tens upon tens of thousands of women and children were incinerated alive by pilots like future Nuremberg prosecutor Robert "Rosie" Rosenthal as they huddled in basements.
Posted by hildegaard on February 14, 2013 at 4:08 PM · Report this
117

Come on Otto, I've got four minutes to change into my naughty anime schoolgirl outfit and I did half of your job for you with my 'knee-deep in this mud' fragment
Posted by hildegaard on February 14, 2013 at 4:01 PM · Report this
116
Otto, I've spent the first half of my afternoon wading knee-deep in the mud. If I'm going to waste my few breaks from pole dancing (ouch! see? misogynistic and "racist" jabs only "hurt" weak-minded people because shrill PC thought police like your compatriots tell them it does) for truckstop tweakers "backing up" easily googlable claims, it's going to be the ones you folks especially doubt. Pick one or two; I won't shy away.

Do pepper your comeback with more sassy pricklitude; I bet you're cute with the baffled countenance + ruffled liberace feathers combo!
Posted by hildegaard on February 14, 2013 at 3:54 PM · Report this
115
Oh and believe me, there are plenty of folks who think my work is exactly what the author claims it is not. Throwback racist imagery does not, and should not go down easily for anyone. But work with it is something I must do. I hate being evoked as a convenient example without being consulted.
Posted by kwak on February 14, 2013 at 3:52 PM · Report this
114
I am not too sure my name should be bandied about in this article as an example of the 'good negro' who's on the right side of the law. I am interested in history and the sustaining stories and mythologies that determine or misrepresent identity. And I am also really affected by the rules- of behavior and speech, especially when they are broken as they so often are. This guy loses the respect of many, friends and colleagues strangers like me by his unwavering; and in many places, illegal speech. But I don't think this is the first time this has happened, that a successful white male artist is proven to have racist sexist ideas! It never fails to surprise me how willing some folks are to render such racism invisible.

Kara
Posted by kwak on February 14, 2013 at 3:48 PM · Report this
113
If we didnt exploit wwii as a founding myth for the quote reluctant unquote american empire, ie if it were possible to speak about what really happened (director stone pilloried for opining the russians were the major victim of hitlerism), then the lunatic right would not harbor quite so many smart people.
Posted by John Koezig on February 14, 2013 at 3:37 PM · Report this
112
#109- you don't make that many claims, why not back up all of them? Another girl can dance in your place in the meantime.
Posted by Otto Toot Otto on February 14, 2013 at 3:09 PM · Report this
111
Hm... Kara "Williams" just wants to mention that she's just completed the first chapter of work dealing with white supremacist/nationalist mythology- especially its growth in reaction to black nationalist efforts of the 20th c. "Rise up ye Mighty Race" will be on view at the Chicago Art Institute at the end of February 2013. I might add, just my opinion here, but the artworks themselves, all artworks, are open to misinterpretation and redemption, even when the artists insist otherwise.

kara walker
Posted by kwak on February 14, 2013 at 3:02 PM · Report this
110 Comment Pulled (Trolling) Comment Policy
109
Otto, what utterance of mine would you care to see sources for? Fire away quickly; I'm late for work.
Posted by hildegaard on February 14, 2013 at 2:56 PM · Report this
108
Alex Linder, you exemplify the crudity and ego-compensatory hatred that has resurfaced in white nationalism since the collapse of its qualified leadership as a result of the dirty laundry exhibition enabled by loser/freak-laden, repugnant train-wreck discussion forums like yours, and I consider you to be almost as certainly on the take from the Department of Homeland Security as your companion in vulgarity (and friend) Hal Turner. You also exemplify the unsavory characters clustered around poor Charlie for his lack of prudent meanness, and in your case, his affinity for shock jock radio antics from any political perspective. Please feel free to gather up the rest of the freaks clustering around Charlie's attention and piss off into your unfortunate mothers' basements.

It's also worth mentioning that the journalist assigned to concoct this smear piece -and possibly even Mr. Schmader himself- are to be commended for including at least a few of the complicating, balancing tidbits normally omitted in jewish media smear-jobs aimed at destroying the careers of people who think outside of the kosher box.

(please excuse my misspellings and typo errors folks I'm using an iphone)
Posted by hildegaard on February 14, 2013 at 2:53 PM · Report this
107
#104 Gee, kitten, your comments go so far to repair Chuck's exploded image here. You offer no proof for any of your incendiary claims here, and you wave your arms around to distract us from your charming, reptilian, Col. Hans Landa- like "You people are so clever, so CHARMING..." act before taking us to school. In school we don't just make accusations and offer rebuttals without citing our sources. Of course, your sources are either Krafft or his cohorts, so just being the ex girlfriend of some Krafft-Kurious goosestepper wannabe doesn't help you make much of an argument.
Posted by Otto Toot Otto on February 14, 2013 at 2:48 PM · Report this
106
@105ALinder

Moon landing conspiracy theorists, 9-11 truthers, birthers, and bigfoot believers can back up their claims as well, it's just that it's all a bunch of junk.
Posted by Bic on February 14, 2013 at 2:47 PM · Report this
105
All I get out of this is the artist can back up what he says, and the journalist is too lazy/scared to investigate the matter she's asking about. A. Linder
Posted by A.Linder on February 14, 2013 at 2:34 PM · Report this
104
See, this is part of the urban lefty dynamic I commented on above: some of you, as wrong-headed as you are, are clever people and fun to read!

Hedy's "great lazy boy recliner in the sky" comment made me chuckle, and FormerKrafftFan's "Welcome! Let me wrap my poncho around your bare, bony, white shoulders. Soup?" was pretty cute.

NTTAWWT's comment speculating on Charlie's homophobia mentions a guy who was certainly my ex-boyfriend, at the time a remorseful mild womanizer and the least gay person I've even met. But he often joked about people having mistaking him for Charlie's boyfriend.

Someone just needs to take you geezers to school! Columbus as the Americas' first slave owner? How about tens upon tens of thousands of triumphant "native" conquerors of other tribes whose ancestors emigrated from very different parts of Asia? The "nazis" "got" the swastika from the orient? That very simple symbol was central in ancient Germanic tribal culture. Charlie's Holocaust tattoo was "mocking" the tattoos on the arms of camp inmates (which certainly prevent many families from being seperated, just as buzzed heads saved thousands from the typhus that killed Anne Frank)? No, it was mocking the tattoo some (not I) speculate that famed Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel (admitted rapist who used his holocaust victimhood to lobby GWB to go to war against Israel's main enemy IRAQ on behalf of the Jewish people) Elie Wiesel doesn't have. Anywhere we jump in, it's the middle.
Posted by hildegaard on February 14, 2013 at 2:06 PM · Report this
103


An ex-boyfriend of mine shared a house with Charlie for years, and I hung out there quite a bit for a few months, and have remained friends with all of them. Some of you doubt Charlie's sincerity as it concerns the development of his ideology, and that's one thing I can reassure anyone of. Charlie is honest to a fault. Though I personally share much of his current ideology in name, his tolerance has him refusing to shun /anyone/ purporting to share artistic interests wth him, so long as they're polite, and that includes the African American martial artist currently watching his house, his many Jewish Marxist friends of 30 years, and unfortunately, the most unsavory, crude, walking 1980s talk-show nazi straw-men to resurface in white nationalism since the collapse of its qualified leadership seven years ago. Anyway, unlike Charlie, my boyfriend at the time was a 'tasteful, conscienious fascist' skeptic of modern "Marxist anthropology" (the establishment take on the likeness of men, ie, race), WWII history, but also a vociferous critic of "kooks" yapping on about creationism, flouride, 9-11,chemtrails, etc. Charlie Krafft, however, beyond being certainly un-PC, was NOT a fascist. My ex's recent facebook post defending Charlie's nature when Fred Owens (who insulted Charlie above in this thread) attacked him, then deleted any comments supporting Charlie:

"I lived with CK for years beginning a decade ago. I watched as this whole thing began. I should remind anyone to whom it might seem incriminating that he knew me at all that I do art under another name, and his art-prof serious girlfriend at the time was the baby-momma of one of the most powerful (and powerfully revolting) black poverty pimps jetting around the globe to conferences on how human beings who look like me and charlie owe the entire world a living. Anyway, some art interests (and pharmaceutical law quirks) led him to an interest in Romania and his travels there led him to a disturbing story about "holocaust" events there. He had to know more. I watched as he'd seemingly daily pick up books via inter-library loan, in order to check on the footnote citations of seemingly impossible atrocity claims made by Jews against the Romanians in one book after another. It wasn't only one wartime SS document I translated for him, purported in one Jewish book to be a frank admission of some German monstrousness, only to turn out to say something like "the jewish prisoners of such-and-such camp cannot be appropriated for labor at such-and-such camp because they don't feel like going" (I kid you not). This sort of thing went on for years, and I would pass him in the living room and laugh to see how flabbergasted he was at the brazen deception present in essentially every jewish penned or published book on WWII. I would say "Charlie, this is NEWS to you?" as I'd take off on my skateboard. And he'd sit there saying the same thing he said last time: "If what you're saying (and what I'm seeing) is true, it simply would've gotten out by now." To which I would respond: "That measure is valid in every other case but this one. There are no men in black with deneuralyzers. The way the suppression of these truths works is the atmosphere of terror created by the ruling tribe and summarized by a candid Jew who once joked: “We Jews are weak and powerless, and if you don’t agree, we’ll destroy you.” He would walk around shaking his head trying to make sense of it all. And I sat there chuckling, wondering if he ever would. Eventually he did, but not in as discriminating a way as I'd have preferred. In sum, it was a long process of sincere effort, at any point of which he'd have been more than happy to be reassured by any of the zillion Jews he'd have over and who would inexplicably disappoint him when they'd go cuckoo and storm out over his assumption that everybody is as interested in totally open, honest search for truth as he."

Anyway, reading through your comments, I can't help but renew my contempt your oblivious bigotry and my sense that lefty urban culture (which we 'tasteful, conscientious fascists' move through undetected for the few virtues that make it far preferable to the "tea party" society you all would be far more at home in than we) will never cease to be BORING with regard to its own mirror-image ignorance and closed-mindedness. But one doesn't spend as long as we have as omni-misunderstood closet pariahs without being particularly understanding people. We aren't the moronic knuckleheads currently clustered around poor Charlie for his lack of capacity for prudent meanness. From your comments abve, it's plain to see and be reminded that you all absolutely misunderstand us, especially as matters of fact are concerned, and that is neither a coincidence nor something that wouldn't have us possibly see things much as you all do with access to only so limited information as what slips through the disparate Jewish news, entertainment and academic media universe, Mr. Schrader's rag vulgar but sometimes fun rag included
More...
Posted by hildegaard on February 14, 2013 at 1:45 PM · Report this
102
Re the comments of 80.
France and England declared war on Germany AFTER Germany invaded Poland, they had agreed to defend Poland if it was attacked. Many other countries who had not declared war on Germany such as the Netherlands were attacked by Germany.
There is nothing in the Geneva Conventions that authorise "retributions" against a resistance.
Sure, a resistance can be fought, but "retribution", such a the rounding up and burning of all 650 men women and children such as was done in Oradour-sur-Glane, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oradour-sur…) and burning them to death because they may have harbored a member of the Resistance, is not authorized by any rules of war. The ruins of this town still stand as a testament,one example of many to the German barbarity.
I also not that 80 dodged the racism issue completely.
Racism is fundamentally about a lack of compassion and respect for other people.
Posted by caear on February 14, 2013 at 1:36 PM · Report this
101

So this man was admired when he flattered the frivolity of those in the Pacific Northwest art scene but now that it is shown that he is serious about the future of his race and historical truth he is worthy of contempt?

I know who I find worthy of contempt.
Posted by Michael LL on February 14, 2013 at 1:32 PM · Report this
Tom X 100
#99- LOL no,
Posted by Tom X on February 14, 2013 at 1:26 PM · Report this
99
The evidence does not support the conventional narrative of 'the Holocaust'. The evidence supports Krafft's views on 'the Holocaust'. As for race: one is either asleep or awake and Krafft is awake.
Posted by Michael L on February 14, 2013 at 1:19 PM · Report this
98
The homophobia statements I've read about Krafft don't seem to ring true to me. I've seen him with a younger Hitler Youth kind of a guy with him who I took to be his Zucker-Junge. The younger man was dressed in the drag of a 1930's German man, missing only the armband to complete his fascist cosplay. I just assumed...
Posted by NTTAWWT on February 14, 2013 at 1:17 PM · Report this
97
Roq La Rue did a Krafft show within the last decade and they continue to represent him.

http://www.roqlarue.com/artists-71-Charl…
Posted by Emilio Ballardo on February 14, 2013 at 12:57 PM · Report this
nemofred 96

@89 why do we all have to love jews?

2 words: soul music
Posted by nemofred on February 14, 2013 at 12:54 PM · Report this
95
Re: #91,
Finally, someone is talking some sense instead of holier than thou bs.
Posted by large charles on February 14, 2013 at 12:02 PM · Report this
94
@89 Nazi Friend of Charlie Krafft

I do not see much originality in your tiresome thinking either, and you're still seeing evil Jews behind every sofa cushion. Who said I'm Jewish? Who said I have to love Jews to combat ignorant paranoid delusional drones such as yourself? What? I should maybe love Nazis?
Posted by Bic on February 14, 2013 at 12:01 PM · Report this
93
@88 FTW! That's about as clear-eyed commentary on the article and Charlie I've read so far.
Posted by downtownkitty on February 14, 2013 at 11:59 AM · Report this
92
It's nice to know the guy is an asshole. His art contains far too many "recent" cultural references to stand through time, anyhow.

We can understand the ancient Greek and Roman sculptures without any sort of context. They're beautiful to us without knowing that such-and-such statue of Venus was really meant as commentary on such-and-such historical event we've long forgotten.

Guernica is a beautiful and moving painting regardless of Spanish civil war history. I have no idea the history of Goya's the Executions of the 3rd of May, but I still find the painting pretty.

Will someone who has forgotten Hitler find this sculpture pretty? Will we need to remember this asshole's FB page to fully understand its complexities?

I think history has ruled on the atrocities of WWII. Who cares if an beloved artist and a bunch of anonymous posters want to rage against history?

Maybe instead we should re-examine the artists we consider great in the NW.
Posted by six shooter on February 14, 2013 at 11:58 AM · Report this
91
I checked out that podcast and looked into some of the other stuff you wrote about [good job by the way]. The guy seems basically fine; just deeply, profoundly unfashionable and politically incorrect; which is of course ugly. He sounds like a level-headed, objective intellectual who's obsessed with some obscure, fringe ideas about history and trends. I always thought his art was a bit shallow and one trick pony but now it's definitely more than that; and better for it. Bottom line; he doesnt sound like a hateful dick to me; just someone who fell into a deeply unfashionable rabbit hole. Maybe if I was more well read regarding history and race politics I would be outraged like everyone else; but I dont see the "hate" everyone is talking about. I mean if he wants to harm people because of their race then thats another thing; but I doubt thats the case here.
Posted by greyg on February 14, 2013 at 11:46 AM · Report this
Tom X 90
I don't even know who here is a troll and who is a Nazi. I just wanted to point out that the labored wordsmithing of a Nazi (see "Jewish Hollow-Cau$e ™" above) makes me think of middle school kids who think it's original to put a trademark next to something they think will shock the rest of the room.
Posted by Tom X on February 14, 2013 at 11:38 AM · Report this
89
@87 who wrote: "Look over there - that lamp is a Jewish conspiracy! Look outside - the tree is a Jewish conspiracy."

I expected this, and you, Bic, have not disappointed me. I used the word Jew in only one sentence, but you picked right up on it.

Where did it come from that everyone has to love Jews? As a tribe or as individuals, you are not at all loveable! The fact that Jews are all over comment pages like this one, defending their myths of innocence and attacking "Nazis", is no secret. It's very tiresome and, hopefully, more non-jewish people will tire of it sooner rather than later.

I do not love jews but I do love Charlie Krafft!
Posted by Friend of Charlie Krafft on February 14, 2013 at 11:34 AM · Report this
CATSPAW666 88
Personally, I defriended Charlie a couple of years ago, as I find his political opinions offensive.

But all this stuff about him pulling the wool over peoples eyes, or Seattle "celebrating" him, or him raking in the dough- thats just baloney.

Charlie has always been a difficult person, and a lot of people have always steered clear of him. He has not been "celebrated" in Seattle- he hasnt even had a gallery show here in decades, and he has never had a major museum solo show around here, much less a retrospective. Curators here have occasionally included a piece in a group show, but he is not exactly a critical or musuem or collector darling.

Any works of his in local museums were almost certainly donated by collectors, not purchased outright by museums throwing money his way.

We "celebrate" people like Gary Hill or Dale Chihuly, we give museum shows to people like Patti Warashina, or Fay Jones, or Jeffry Mitchell- you know, women, and gays. Not Charlie. I would say he is pretty good at reaping what he sows, scaring away serious money, collectors, and curators.

And as far as money- I would be amazed if Charlie makes anywhere near as much as a Union Garbageman. He sure doesnt make as much as a college professor. He squeaks by, making a living as an artist, which, in and of itself, is a major accomplishment, but as far as I know, he doesnt own a house, or a car, or have health insurance, and he sure doesnt wear gold doogie chains with diamond studded swastikas hangin off em.

In short - Seattle did not shower Krafft with money, acclaim, fame, and art world status.
Nobody was ever "fooled" or "scammed" by him.

He has been making art for 30 plus years, and some people have bought it. Some of it is good, some of it not so good. He is a lot LESS objectionable than a bunch of artists I know who are drug addicts, wife beaters, crooks, and creeps, who are far more wealthy and famous than he is.

Is his political stance creepy? You betcha.
Should the art scene in Seattle, whatever that is, somehow have lynched him, or kicked him in the balls, or sent him to re-education camp for his views?
I dont think so.
There are plenty of jerks in the art scene, just like any scene.

I think its great Jen wrote this, but I dont think we need months of self criticism meetings over our failure to properly deal with Krafft.
More...
Posted by CATSPAW666 on February 14, 2013 at 10:59 AM · Report this
87
@84 Nazi Friend of Charlie Krafft:

That's right, this comments section is a Jewish conspiracy! Look over there - that lamp is a Jewish conspiracy! Look outside - the tree is a Jewish conspiracy.
Posted by Bic on February 14, 2013 at 10:25 AM · Report this
86
79- "I would simply like to point out that the Jewish Hollow-Cau$e ™ is currently the ONLY historical event that is ILLEGAL to examine from a different point of view. "

It's not illegal in 95% of the world, and is actually encouraged in the Islamic world. Questioning any claim Muslims have about their persecution or the Prophet Mohammad and you will be hounded the world over. Saying "Throughout history Muslims have done as much or more injustice then they've been subject to" would fall under "insulting Islam" which is punishable by death. Questioing whether the Armenian genocide did happen in punishable in Turkey. So you are 100% wrong.
Posted by sayingitlikeitispart6 on February 14, 2013 at 10:22 AM · Report this
85
I never heard of this guy, but I appreciate the article!

It reminds me of the recent story about the Zen master in LA who had been sexually abusing female students for 50 years, and all the insiders knew about it, but nobody ever made a big deal of it until now.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/…
Posted by spock on February 14, 2013 at 10:14 AM · Report this
84
I love Charlie Krafft. Charlie is someone who the longer you know him, the more special he becomes. Now he's even more special - he's a hero!

It's sad he's had to live among all you pathetic, hateful liberals that infest the beautiful city of Seattle. Most spewing their hate here are judging art by ideology; whatever fits your political ideology you accept as "art" and admire. Conversely, when you and Jen Graves discover that Charlie's art might have the "wrong" ideology, hmmm, it becomes suspect.

I would say plenty of the anonymous commenters here are Jewish operatives who jump in wherever Hitler and the Holocaust is the subject, making their very pro-Jewish comments while hiding their Jewishness. It's rampant. And it's dishonest. The U.S. Northwest coast is a faggy, über-liberal enclave of folks who really do want to take over the world and form it in their own image. I appreciated those who pointed out the anti-Christian bias that is so strong. There are no more intolerant people than these types of homosexual and anti-White extremists, and it certainly shows in this article and the majority of comments.

Thank you Charles Krafft for not compromising your honestly-arrived-at beliefs. And thanks to those few who have pointed this out.
Posted by Friend of Charlie Krafft on February 14, 2013 at 10:05 AM · Report this
83
Nice to see Krafft's fellow dirt-bag Nazis rallying here to impotently take an awful stand.
Posted by Bic on February 14, 2013 at 9:40 AM · Report this
82
Thanks Jen for taking on a difficult topic. I've kept Charlie Krafft as a FB "friend" solely to remind myself that racism and anti-semitism are alive and well in my community. It's upsetting to read the comments beneath his posts, both for the racist name-calling and the tremendous amount of energy expended on the construction of elaborate theories designed to blame the victims of historical atrocities. These people see evil jewish overlords behind every rock. They are ridiculous, but ignoring their ideas is dangerous.
Posted by JR77 on February 14, 2013 at 9:39 AM · Report this
Fenrox 81
See, I thought Nazis were a zero sum when it comes to emotion. They are relegated as the clowns who tried to commit genocide and got destroyed by everyone. Hitler arguments and jokes are considered useless, emotional pomp.

They are ubiquitous and meaningless in society now. Referencing them is a sign of no creativity. Deniers are so vilified because we all understand what happened.

SO, isn't this guy a horrible artist who has always been a horrible artist?

Put in comic terms: He puts wolverine on everything, it's all punchy but not creative and overdone to hell.
Posted by Fenrox on February 14, 2013 at 9:08 AM · Report this
80
@76, YES, it was OK for Germany to invade and occupy France, remember France declared War on Germany Germany did NOT declare War on France. Please know your history before you are ourtaged. And YES, Germany was justified in taking measures against Partisans, which was provided for in the Geneva Convention, afterall, France had officially surrendered and Partisan activities in Nations which have surrendred are illegal under international Law. The Soviets were not signers of the Geneva Convention and left troops behind lines to engage in horrible actions against German troops and their own civilians. Please know your history before you get outraged.
Finally, it is a persons fundemental right to examine evidence and beleive whatever he or she wants to believe, no one here has a right to force Charlie or anyone else to conform to a standard text of events, need I say the world is flat.
Posted by World_View on February 14, 2013 at 8:22 AM · Report this
79
There certainly seems to be a good deal of devoted Holocaustians here! Without mocking your faith too much, I would simply like to point out that the Jewish Hollow-Cau$e ™ is currently the ONLY historical event that is ILLEGAL to examine from a different point of view. And thanks to the internet and Youtube videos like “One Third Of The Holocaust” this Jewish lie is breaking down more and more every day.
Posted by Flamethrower on February 14, 2013 at 7:49 AM · Report this
78
Speaks volumes (as do many comments here) about Seattle and many there who have used their anti Israel ( bus ads) to couch what's really going on. What's up Seattle with you and the Jewish People? Latent hatred ? Maybe its time to get it all out in the open. Here's your most famous and revered painter who it turns out is a Nazi sympathizer and you all have been holding him and his garbage Nazi art as something special? Shame on all of you and your intellectual twaddle half trying to justify why you didnt see it for exactly what it was. His art should be smashed at the Town Square and he should be shunned from now on. Any museum that continues to show it should be defunded. Didn't enough people die to rid the earth of these fascist racist symbols?
Posted by Steven Loeb on February 14, 2013 at 7:01 AM · Report this
Tacoma Traveler 77
Racism is America's original sin.
Posted by Tacoma Traveler on February 14, 2013 at 4:45 AM · Report this
76
Charlie sent me an e-mail once referring to "Martin Luther Coon" and making other remarks that sure seemed "racist" and "white supremacist" to me.

Racism isn't just a matter of "not sharing the same historical beliefs", is it?

He also seemed to think it was OK for the Germans to invade and occupy France and other countries, and that local resistance to the Nazi occupation deserved the retribution it received. And , yes , he does deny the holocaust.
Posted by caear on February 14, 2013 at 4:03 AM · Report this
75
I, too, thought the Kara Walker comparison wasn't quite spot on--since she, with or without her art, would have encountered the modern legacy of slavery in America.

And all too predictably, this POS Krafft agreed--but because, as a black woman, Walker, ahem "gets to" play the race card. He seems to be against the very idea of genuine political expression coming from a place of personal experience.

My wife came up with a much better comparison: it'd be like if we found out today that Picasso was an ardent Fascist, and Guernica was a celebration of the Fascists' glorious victories over the Republicans.
Posted by duffellduffell on February 14, 2013 at 3:58 AM · Report this
74
@64 hey you stole my phrase. This isn't really related but this kinda makes me think of what happens whenever I talk to anyone else about liking NON or Coil, but I liked it because it sounded like I was in outer space, not because of some hate-speech, but then again these are actually different cases so what do I know, I just know if I mention him at a party I'm not invited back.
Posted by screeeens on February 14, 2013 at 2:57 AM · Report this
73
This has got to be the most popular Stranger article ever among white pride folks (never white power).
Welcome! Let me wrap my poncho around your bare, bony, white shoulders. Soup?

Anyway, I'm so disappointed. The craftsmanship, the perversion of historic tropes, the irony was a compelling package, assuming its author was sane.

I defend the right of artists to examine potent symbols. But I now wonder if the imagary of Nazism doesn't have the occult power the Nazis claimed it had. That Krafft's use of these images slowly transmogrified his mind. The grimoire now commands the magus. Perhaps Krafft was too weak to withstand the thrall of its invested meanings.
Pathetic worm tangled with tools beyond his ken.
Posted by formerkrafftfan on February 14, 2013 at 1:11 AM · Report this
72
@71 I have no problem with people who question 6 million or anything else you mentioned. Charles denies it happens altogether. That's as offensive as saying slavery never happened or blacks were never lynched or women are never raped. I was facebook friends with Charles and his anti-Jewish posts go far beyond anything you mentioned.
Posted by uluong on February 14, 2013 at 12:54 AM · Report this
71
Why can we NOT question the 6 million? Why is it when WWII is brought up, the first thing people say is Holocaust? There were 50 million killed in WWII, originally the Poles and Soviets claimed 4 million were gassed at Auschwitz, but had to revise it through the years to a million and now it appears that number is not correct based on a review of records, the number of deaths is less than a million. Why is it assumed that no one survived these Camps and that only Jews were in them? Why when anyone asks questions, they called a "denier" and treated like a heritic in the Middle Ages? This thread is a prime example of a lot of programed people.
Posted by World_View on February 13, 2013 at 11:50 PM · Report this
70
Charles is a genius, so what if he does not share the same historical beliefs as you he does not have to. Does that mean that he treats people of different races or religions with disrespect? No! I personally have witnessed his continued kindness and support of the art/young community black,white,jew or otherwise. This whole article is a bummer and further promotes this negative sensationalism our "wiser" press men and women so often pump through our media. Everyone is in a uproar over symbols and his beliefs and not his daily actions. Jen Graves you are not a PI and your "facts" always seem fairly lackluster and consist of nameless informants with hurt feelings.
Posted by JR_Ewing on February 13, 2013 at 11:45 PM · Report this
69
Everybody calm down. You sound like hysterical weaklings. What's worse than Charles' "views" and "beliefs" is your apparent decision to be threatened by them.
Posted by Lane Kagay on February 13, 2013 at 11:37 PM · Report this
68
I'm shocked, shocked to find that the artist who loved making swastikas is a Nazi sympathizer...Actually what's really shocking is there are people who are ok having Nazi symbols hanging in their house "ironically"...what do you tell your Jewish friends when they come over "oh don't worry about those swastikas fridge magnets, they're ironic"...They may be "ironic", but they're still swastikas and are a symbol used by an organization who killed millions of people, so if you buy this art you aren't being "ironic", you're being ignorant.
Posted by j2patter on February 13, 2013 at 11:19 PM · Report this
67
If Krafft were a Stalinist or a Maoist he would be working for the Stranger, or on the faculty somewhere.

TK
Posted by Thomas Katt on February 13, 2013 at 10:59 PM · Report this
Tom X 66
dudebro: the tea party's most respected art critic.
Posted by Tom X on February 13, 2013 at 10:45 PM · Report this
65
You people are so damned silly. If Krafft were a Stalinist or a Maoist there would be no controversy at all.
Posted by Hadding on February 13, 2013 at 9:51 PM · Report this
64
lmao @ all the hipsters furiously denying they ever enjoyed this guy's art now that they've found out he believes something they don't like.

modern art is a huge leftist echo chamber that hasn't produced an original thought in decades
Posted by dudebro on February 13, 2013 at 9:37 PM · Report this
63
I should add that of course everything krafft made was pure shit, and it's no surprise that a bunch of dumb hipsters took it for ironic twat-art...these are not bright people, they don't know art they just know what they like, their crap will not survive the collapse of this dying civilization which will hopefully also bring about the extinction of the diseased white race
Posted by gayman69 on February 13, 2013 at 8:53 PM · Report this
62
Charlie got old, but he never got wise.
Posted by Fred Owens on February 13, 2013 at 8:49 PM · Report this
61
years of exposure to Jewish behavior turned me from an admirer to a severe critic of Jews, who can fail to notice today that the one thing you can't do is criticize them? and therefore it will become the one thing you must do to keep any self-respect
Posted by gayman69 on February 13, 2013 at 8:45 PM · Report this
60
It's bad enough that Krafft has been able to parade his bigotry as 'art', it's worse that he can also be allowed to fabricate 'history.' Anthony Johnson did not own enslaved people--though he did have indentured servants. Sahara29 has his/her facts wrong as well. In 1640, there was a case of runaway servants whose punishment was race based--but beyond the fact that they lived in Virginia, there was no connection to Johnson. They were not his servants. Much of this seems to be garbled misunderstanding of the PBS series on 'Africans in America.' website here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1narr3… Tangential to Krafft, art and misinterpreted irony, but I'm a historian, and hate to see history and race misused by guys who, if they weren't producing clever Hitler ceramics, would simply be considered creepy neo-Nazi racist wankers.
Posted by rebeccahartman on February 13, 2013 at 8:35 PM · Report this
59
Here we have another case of something extremely common in Seattle. People granting a pass to bigotry by explaining away the obvious as 'sarcasm' or 'hipster-ia' or 'edginess'. Not all bigots and antisemites are toothless southerners or mountain hillbillies. Some are actually fairly talented. Others are mildly intelligent (in non-historical/sociological/analytical fields).

It sounds like people dismissed Kraffts racism because he didnt fit the 'ignorant, babbling bigot' or 'violent, bootsnbraces skinhead' moniker that many 'progressive' Seattlites tell themselves are the hallmarks of 'racists'.

Here is the kicker: Hes not alone. I dont know a latino or asian person in western WA that doesnt have countless stories of commonplace bigotry. I dont mean 'bad stares' either, I mean things ranging from goading insults to aggression. And as you can guess, for African Americans and Natives in the region, its much much worst (I say that as one). Yet somehow the Seattle art scene and the region in general are given a carte blanche 'tolerant' rating...mostly by the very people who either fit into Krafft's type of anti-social normative behavior or from the endless number of people who excuse it.

"I know he called jose a s**c, but I promise you he isnt racist"

"Oh he doesnt mean anything by those black jokes, I swear hes not racist...but you know there is some truth to...."

"Oh I dont have anything against jews...but you do know they run our banking system and foreign policy!"

This type of mindset is waaaaay too fucking common in this region, and it only persists because no one stands up to it...partially because despite yourselves many of the locals here agree in one or another instance.
Posted by transplantier on February 13, 2013 at 8:17 PM · Report this
58
Thank you Mr Kraft. Your art is representing what we all wish to say.
Posted by James Speed on February 13, 2013 at 8:15 PM · Report this
57
@53-- your comment has almost nothing to do with what I actually said. "Embrace the ugliness?" I said nothing of the kind. We can allow objectionable ideas and artwork to exist without embracing them-- and we won't bring about the peace and respect you claim to believe in by "kicking their ass down the block" (as Owens' suggests) when someone steps out of line with what we think is okay. It's really sad that you seem to believe that peer-pressure and conformity (white supremacists' favorite tactics) are all that keep people from becoming white supremacists.
Posted by monorail on February 13, 2013 at 7:55 PM · Report this
56
This is an interesting article.

Krafft does seem to possess a quality that I've seen in various other paranoid, conspiratorial personalities, from both the political Far Left and Far Right. He is prone to seize onto a piece of incidental or anecdotal evidence, and then to conflate that evidence into a much grander scheme or theory.

The anecdote regarding the black slave-owner Anthony Johnson is an example, and so is the incidental assertion that Jews are disproportionately represented in high finance. The conspiratorial and the paranoid tend to give excessive weight and significance to this sort of 'evidence'.

Even if some grand conspiracy is not explicitly spelled out by this sort of personality, they tend to rely on portentous ellipses and significant, knowing 'looks'--the equivalent of a secret handshake among members of a club (the club being those who see dark forces at work, manipulating the masses for evil purposes).
Posted by Functional Atheist on February 13, 2013 at 7:54 PM · Report this
55
"Maybe what's hardest to accept is that a man so totally, radically, fist-pumpingly opposed to ideology—a guy you wanted to root for at the end of a bloody, painfully ideological century—himself seems to have succumbed to an ideology."

yeah; but it's still the least politically correct ideology you could have; so I dont see your point. It seems pretty consistent to me. He basically sounds like an anti-globalist that thinks the demonization of WASPS is a convenient smokescreen. If any cultural/religio/racial group eventually rises to the top of the global pyramid scheme it would obviously end up being Jewish folk as the other groups are all intermixing and secularizing. As I said; consistent.
Posted by one911death=1000regulardeaths on February 13, 2013 at 7:41 PM · Report this
54
I DO NOT KNOW WHO YOU ARE, BUT, I FUCKIN' SALUTE YOU, Charles Krafft!

THIS SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED A LONG TIME AGO. SYMPATHY FOR HEBREWS SHOULD HAVE NEVER REACHED THE SHORES OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. IT IS NOT OUR BURDEN TO CARE ABOUT THESE PEOPLE.

CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
Posted by CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON on February 13, 2013 at 7:38 PM · Report this
53
Yes, #51, we should all embrace the ugliness instead of coming out for tolerance and decency. If we don't, the nazis have won by losing, and we'll have played into their hateful hands by demanding peace and respect. Well said, well said.
Posted by Otto Toot Otto on February 13, 2013 at 7:24 PM · Report this
52
"I did confront him, like, 'Do you consider yourself a neo-Nazi or sympathetic to that?' And he said no, that he didn't," Ott said.
Casually inviting him to exhibit a swastika wedding cake in a Bumbershoot exhibition (of all places)without doing any of the curatorial or critical work it takes to evaluate his art and its validity is exactly why the "local art glitterati" should be taking a long hard look at themselves and their schtick-I mean-is not Yoko Ott the head of the new Behnke Foundation to advance NW artists out of the area-blah blah blah? Promote away fool-and all the other self-appointed art elite that have embraced this charlatan and the such. Oh, and drop the "like" in your delivery Ms.Ott-I believe you left Junior high some time ago.
Posted by Hibrowgorilla on February 13, 2013 at 7:19 PM · Report this
51
The weird thing is that, in spite of his ridiculous ideology, the artwork itself clearly works against that ideology. For instance, the Hitler teapot is really creepy and menacing, and not likely to inspire favorable feelings towards Hitler. So, like many artists, maybe his artistic sensibilities are on a higher level than his obviously pathetic intellect (but I've never been too impressed with his art).

I completely disagree with Owens' comment about Seattle's "misguided kind of false tolerance going on here." We can all figure out for ourselves that white supremacy is bad--- it is not necessary for "the art community" to make sure everyone's marching in step. If that's how it works in Brooklyn or Boston, I'm glad I'm not there. And the notion that tolerance is to blame for Krafft's stupidity is utter nonsense. Our sense of humanity and justice comes from compassion, not conformity.
Posted by monorail on February 13, 2013 at 7:00 PM · Report this
50
Ask the Native Americans if they give a shit about the jews.
Posted by jewsruntheworld on February 13, 2013 at 6:26 PM · Report this
49
Could this be performance art? Meta-irony of some sort?

(By the way, anyone seen his weird wikipedia article? could use some revision...)
Posted by Jude Fawley on February 13, 2013 at 5:12 PM · Report this
48
The little bubbles he's made in the pond haven't traveled as far as he might have hoped. Being shocking for shock's sake doesn't last, and this Nazi shit will eventually all be in the hands of his apologists and nazi sympathizers, so his place in history seems sealed. He'll be another old, decrepit "bad boy", the worst kind of artist.

Look for Krafft to take ze easy way out in his bunker on Beacon Hill zumtime zoon, yes?
Posted by Krafft's Cheese on February 13, 2013 at 4:55 PM · Report this
47
didn't intend that to sound so mean towards you jen. I love your work and your honesty.
Posted by oh! on February 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM · Report this
Badger 46
I enjoy his art regardless of his personal beliefs, but I don't know if I would be comfortable purchasing it.
Posted by Badger on February 13, 2013 at 4:47 PM · Report this
45
On the positive side, there is little chance that a kitschy looking Hitler head teapot can further the goals of white supremacists. Krafft's delusion obviously affects more than his political beliefs.
Posted by anon1256 on February 13, 2013 at 4:46 PM · Report this
44
maybe a delicate painting of a humerously ironic lynch rope can replace him in the top 25. go white boys!!
Posted by oh! on February 13, 2013 at 4:46 PM · Report this
43
and just to be absolutely clear, I've been reading the Stranger for about 13 years, and Slog for as long as it's existed, and I don't recall off hand (though there may have been) a single instance where Slog outed or attacked a Christian or Christian community (and they surely have given them a place at the debate table, ask Dan Savage) where they didn't thoroughly deserve it. Usually based on what actions they were committing, rather than what they were typing out on the internet, which, one can agree, is a dime-a-dozen occurrence.

The real difference? There's no real large connotation to being critical of the Christian religion, because the Christian religion has asserted itself in a position of superiority. Christian kids don't get ejected from public schools for having Christian beliefs. Christians don't really get to run around screaming about how they're going to get fed to the lions. And Christians who get fucked over are usually getting fucked over by fellow Christians. That dynamic is NOT APPLICABLE here.
Posted by stilettov on February 13, 2013 at 4:11 PM · Report this
42
ahem, *read. Carry on.
Posted by stilettov on February 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM · Report this
41
In case you didn't actually the entry- she spoke to witnesses and friends who qualitatively underscored an identifiable fact.

Also, you clearly lack the ability to identify irony- which might be why your response to "this guy is capitalizing on a horrendous tragedy" is "Slog did it first!"

So, you know, that shows really excellent, Christ-like Christian priorities. Just because no one is casting stones (which, uh...well...) doesn't mean no one is guilty of sin.

Additionally, Christians, particularly in large collectives, make fucking idiots of themselves without any additional help from Slog. Slog is just a highly biased aggregate. Not all biases are created equal, just having one and owning to one doesn't mean you aren't qualified to criticize other biases. Especially, in this case, where false representation plays a huge part.
Posted by stilettov on February 13, 2013 at 4:02 PM · Report this
chinaski 40
HA! Krafft has pulled a great con on the over-intellectualized art establishment. Enjoy your Nazi swag bitches!
Posted by chinaski on February 13, 2013 at 4:00 PM · Report this
39
"Fuck off with your fucking fake statistics. If you actually think googling a word count is going to give you real information, then you're stupid ..."

I must have touched a nerve.

"Googling a word count" was good enough for Jen Graves when she was trashing Charles Krafft.

"I word-search googled right now and discovered that Slog is incredibly hateful against gays because of their proliferation of the words 'faggot' and 'hate'.
"

Nobody who reads Slog can think for a moment that it is about hating gays, or loving Christians. It is about loving gays, and hating Christians.

TK
Posted by Thomas Katt on February 13, 2013 at 3:52 PM · Report this
38
And I should add that there isn't a simplistic approach to this. In 2008, some of my classmates did a process documentary on Charles Krafft, and I was perfectly happy to believe that he really was what he said he was about, which was black humour and satire- because I generally believe that most educated, aware people regard holocaust deniers and neo-nazis as absurd. So co-opting the imagery and sticking it to dinner plates and collectibles does seem to me like absurdist humour.

I didn't want to believe that he was actually politically, ideologically predisposed because it just seemed to too damn stupid, or too damn obvious. And that for me is one of the most depressing things. Not only is this guy a total white supremacist holocaust denier (or, you know...1/5th the way) but he's capitalizing on his image of being CRITICAL or cynical about the absurdity of those beliefs. He must really think he's clever.

It's a real shame, too, because his bone-china memorial work is actually quite lovely, and the whole concept is lovely, and the care with which he obviously puts into it is evident in that short film. The question is, what do you do from here? Does this controversy really devalue the artworks or are they going to increase in value? Is everyone who owns a Charles Krafft piece going to suddenly have to explain to them that the values behind the purchase weren't the values behind the process- but then how to do you justify putting money in this guy's pocket?
Posted by stilettov on February 13, 2013 at 3:48 PM · Report this
37
I word-search googled right now and discovered that Slog is incredibly hateful against gays because of their proliferation of the words "faggot" and "hate".

Posted by stilettov on February 13, 2013 at 3:38 PM · Report this
36
Yes, 31, the Stranger or its staff have never, ever said anything derogatory about Jews or religious fanatics in a context of violence (say, Gaza) or terrorists, or violence against women committed against the Taliban, or...wait, you googled it? And discovered what, they're obsessed with the word "and"?

Fuck off with your fucking fake statistics. If you actually think googling a word count is going to give you real information, then you're stupid and you deserve to believe your easy to swallow bullshit.
Posted by stilettov on February 13, 2013 at 3:37 PM · Report this
Charles Mudede 35
Amen, @24, amen.
Posted by Charles Mudede on February 13, 2013 at 3:35 PM · Report this
34
The truth about Charlie Krafft changes my perception of his art from being brilliant irony to high school-level idolatry. It's like very well executed bongs made in shop class in the shape of Jerry Garcia's head or something. In my mind he has gone from genius to typical mean old white man getting his last licks in before shuffling off to the great lazy boy recliner in the sky. It's a shame, but I really appreciate this article.
Posted by hedy on February 13, 2013 at 3:28 PM · Report this
33
one million comments by morning.
Posted by Adrian Ryan on February 13, 2013 at 3:22 PM · Report this
32
I feel like I'm lost in an echo chamber
Posted by screeeeees on February 13, 2013 at 3:14 PM · Report this
31
So, Jen and The Stranger are concerned about Charles Krafft's comments about Jews. Well, I did a little research to see how far their warm concern for all humanity extends: I plugged "Christian" into the Stranger's search function.

Here is what I found:

"A Christian pastor tells his co-religionists ... that their faith's hateful reputation is largely their own fault"

"Christian commenters on Slog are always saying we're misrepresenting Christianity by focusing on the haters. Well, fucking prove we're misrepresenting you, Christians."

"I know that religion is sorta off limits when it comes to presidential candidates—you know, as long as they're Christian (or Christian-ish)—because this is America goddammit, where questioning a candidate's crazy religious beliefs (and/or the religion's crazy founding) would just be wrong. But imagine for a moment that the Christian candidate in question was a Christian Scientist."

This took five minutes. "Hateful" .... "crazy" ... "haters" ...

Funny, but I have never seen comments like these about Muslims, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, or, yes, Jews, in the pages of The Stranger. And `ere you think this has something to do with Christians stance on gay marriage, I remind you that Christians in general are far more tolerant of gays than those other faiths, particularly Orthodox Jews.

Pot. Kettle.

TK

Posted by Thomas Katt on February 13, 2013 at 3:01 PM · Report this
30
We should all give a shit because its people like Krafft who perpetuate racism through art and influence people in a subtle way !!
Posted by estatebuyersmia on February 13, 2013 at 2:46 PM · Report this
Paul Constant 29
@20: That was an excellent pun—funny, smart, well-timed—and I salute you.
Posted by Paul Constant http://https://twitter.com/paulconstant on February 13, 2013 at 2:36 PM · Report this
ragold 28
This is why New Criticism is untenable. I had to yank any honest answers out of a docent at SAM recently who nearly refused to comment on any artist's intentions.
Posted by ragold on February 13, 2013 at 2:32 PM · Report this
27
"Here is a question: If Charles claimed AIDS was a hoax invented by a gay cabal to force society to sympathize with them and he openly voiced that gays are repugnant, if he claimed Emett Till was not a child murdered for whistling at a white woman but a 47 year old serial rapist, if he was a chronic Korean [sic, Koran - I think] burner aka Pastor Jones and constantly spewed similar venom about Muslims, if he voiced open support for rapists, and claimed 99% of rape accusations are false and in the 1% that did happen women brought it on themselves- would the Seattle art world be as forgiving in any of the above scenerios?"

Here is another question: If my aunt had balls, would she be my uncle?

If he burned Bibles and posted screeds about white males all being rapists and closet Nazis, would the "forgiving" Seattle art community be trying to destroy his reputation and livelihood - as the oh-so-sweetly concerned Jen Graves is obviously doing right now?

Posted by Thomas Katt on February 13, 2013 at 2:29 PM · Report this
26
"They fail to see It's not the number of innocents that were killed (War kills people), it's the de-huminization, the humiliation, the terrorization by the State, the public turning a blind eye toward it, borders being closed to those fleeing, the reason they were executed that is the point/horror of the Holocaust."

You have almost perfectly described the the Soviet Union, the horrors of which motivated the backlash against Jews in Germany. It's not a jailable offense to question the number of Ukrainians killed by Stalin's genocidal Jewish henchmen in The Holodomor, in part because virtually nobody even knows this event happened.
Posted by Superman on February 13, 2013 at 2:09 PM · Report this
25
It's pretty hilarious people were ever taken with this guy to begin with, and it says a lot about the less savory aspects of contemporary art. Oh, how edgy, Hitler ceramics! How shocking and cutting edge. What was this guy, a 13 year old bassist in a sub-basement black metal band? The arts scene was seriously taken in by this crap? Hilarious.
Posted by Jizzlobber on February 13, 2013 at 2:03 PM · Report this
Sargon Bighorn 24
What I always find interesting with these sort of people is they play a numbers game. Okay so it was not 6 million Jews or 3 million Homosexuals or 1 million Gypsies. Half that number; is it better now for you? Now it's the truth is it? They fail to see It's not the number of innocents that were killed (War kills people), it's the de-huminization, the humiliation, the terrorization by the State, the public turning a blind eye toward it, borders being closed to those fleeing, the reason they were executed that is the point/horror of the Holocaust.
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on February 13, 2013 at 2:01 PM · Report this
23
" ... increasingly sinister posts. On January 14, for instance, Krafft posted, 'Why amongst the monuments glorifying the history of this nation in Wash DC is there a museum of horrors dedicated to people who never lived, fought, or died here? The USHMM [United States Holocaust Memorial Museum] was erected before there was ever a monument to the 465,000 Americans who died in WWII. And no one did enough to save the Jews of Europe?'

Wow, if it gets any more sinister I might have to go hide under the covers!
Posted by Superman on February 13, 2013 at 2:01 PM · Report this
22
Thanks for the article about the well-known "secret" that Charles Krafft is a white nationalist, a holocaust denier and basically a tiresome Nazi apologist. The cranky old coot is a boor, at the very least, and why he continues to be celebrated as Seattle's greatest living artist because of a few incendiary ceramics--oh, and "spone"--is beyond me, but this throws into question our critical abilities. Of course, many generally unpleasant if not outright nasty misanthropes have created wonderful art (witness Ezra Pound, another Nazi apologist, and the notorious misogynist Strindberg, among others) but the celebration Krafft (who is not at their level by an means) remains a puzzle. Is he really running the long con, "laughing at the liberal art establishment he's fooled," or are we just so starved for meaningful art we are his willing accomplices? Some would say leave well enough alone, but since Krafft has recently cranked up his Nazi nastiness on White Power blogs and podcasts, maybe it's time to reassess his worth.
Posted by Bob Rini http://bobrinimakesart.blogspot.com/ on February 13, 2013 at 1:59 PM · Report this
21
old huffer, just big dumb fish in a little dumb pond.
Posted by juan gabriel on February 13, 2013 at 1:50 PM · Report this
20
I never card much for ceramic hand grenades anyway.
I think lots of people just cant tell the difference between Art and Krafft !
Posted by caear on February 13, 2013 at 1:42 PM · Report this
19
Why is it ok for hipsters to wear Mao shirts, the mass murdering commie? Or are they wearing them ironically?
Posted by Or that killer Che on February 13, 2013 at 1:22 PM · Report this
18
His hatred of Jews, Nazi sympathizing, and Holocaust denial have not been a secret for a long time. An interesting article would be the hypocrasy of the politically correct art scene when it came to this. More light shined on his apologists and promoters would be very informative.
Posted by sam adams on February 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM · Report this
17
Truly disturbing to know that his whole process has been a ruse hidden in great craftsmanship...ironic that his true art is now known to be veiled deception and personal dysfunction...thanks for the coverage. I frankly look forward to his reaction to the piece.
Posted by Jack Strubbe on February 13, 2013 at 12:49 PM · Report this
nemofred 16

"nobody who knows him seems to be enjoying this moment"

au contraire. i knew him as a sadist and unrelenting homophobe in junior high, epithet of choice: faggot!

a few years later, he was stealing artwork from his purported idol, morris graves - hushed up out of misplaced sympathy and enabling him to parlay his "friendship" with morris into a slightly lucrative career of false irony.

now that his mask has slipped, here's hoping his few still-loyal friends will help him to get help.

Posted by nemofred on February 13, 2013 at 12:44 PM · Report this
jacques-boot 15
There was a time when I saw Charlie Krafft practically every day. This was in the late 1980s and well into the 1990s. We co-authored "The Resurgent Regionalist Manifesto" together, and participated in various COCA and other events. At that time he was completely open about his anti African American bigotry, dismissing it as the bi-product of being beaten up as a schoolboy. The drift into anti semitism, has been gradual, but has been going on for a long time. It is no surprise to any of his friends and long-term acquaintances. I eventually had to unfriend him on facebook, not only for his own statements, but for the gaggle of right-wing skinhead racists and bigots that he had collected in his own friend list. He has always gravitated to areas of knowledge and belief that he considers "dangerous." Such evaluative criteria is a poor yardstick, in the same ways that "modern," "contemporary," and "new" are.
Posted by jacques-boot http://www.williamelston.com on February 13, 2013 at 12:17 PM · Report this
Posted by bookworm on February 13, 2013 at 12:12 PM · Report this
13
The Institute for Historical Review, mentioned above as a cited source by Krafft in disputing the numbers of Jews killed in the Holocaust, is well-known for being a Holocaust denial organization.
Posted by bookworm on February 13, 2013 at 12:11 PM · Report this
12
Oh Wild Bill, I looked at your past comments and you complaining about whitey obsessively. What's up with that?
Posted by whoareyou on February 13, 2013 at 12:04 PM · Report this
11
Oh Wild Bill, why would you even comment, thereby exposing yourself as someone who secretly harbors those same tender feelings as the Krufft? Please keep your SHIT to yourself Wild Bill.
Posted by KingD on February 13, 2013 at 11:59 AM · Report this
10
I suspect he'll continue to sell a bunch of art, but probably to a different demographic than previously.
Posted by tiktok on February 13, 2013 at 11:57 AM · Report this
9
WHO GIVES A SHIT?
Posted by Wild Bill on February 13, 2013 at 11:55 AM · Report this
8
Also, I don't think it's that unusual for people into Nazism to also be into Buddhism/Indian culture. That *is* where they got the swastika.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Dev…
Posted by redemma on February 13, 2013 at 11:52 AM · Report this
7
This article is good but it's unintentionally misleding. Charles main offense isn't simply believing the Holocaust is exaggerated, he spews anti-Jewish hate speech on his fb page constantly which in way more malicious then simply thinking the number of 6 million killed might be inflated.
Posted by jamesdoe on February 13, 2013 at 11:49 AM · Report this
6
For people who aren't as familiar with Krafft, can you explain if, assuming he's telling the truth about getting interested in white nationalism in 2000, his themes changed at all since then? Can you notice any changes in his work since he started getting Hitlerfied?
Posted by redemma on February 13, 2013 at 11:45 AM · Report this
5
Great article exposing scum. Seven years in Tibet may not be enough for this guy.
Posted by KingD on February 13, 2013 at 11:44 AM · Report this
4
I find it hard to believe that Jen only realized now that Charles is a total Jew hater. He friended me years ago and every other post on his page is spewing hatred against Jews. One that stands out from a couple years ago is a post mocking the tattoos people in concentration camps had. He posted it close to Halloween and called it the Elie Wiesel Halloween costume kit (or something like that). There have been similar posts not just disputing the Holocaust but mocking it. There are a few posts here and there knocking multicultural but his venom is 99% directed towards Jews and it goes beyond simply questioning whether 6 million were killed, it is absolute hatred. I suggest people friend Charles then look at his posts over the last few years and it is undeniable hatred.

Here is a question: If Charles claimed AIDS was a hoax invented by a gay cabal to force society to sympathize with them and he openly voiced that gays are repugnant, if he claimed Emett Till was not a child murdered for whistling at a white woman but a 47 year old serial rapist, if he was a chronic Korean burner aka Pastor Jones and constantly spewed similar venom about Muslims, if he voiced open support for rapists, and claimed 99% of rape accusations are false and in the 1% that did happen women brought it on themselves- would the Seattle art world be as forgiving in any of the above scenerios?
Posted by jamesdoe on February 13, 2013 at 11:41 AM · Report this
3
If this is some bizarre performance art, does that make Krafft more, less or equally a piece of shit?
Posted by Jackbooted Thug on February 13, 2013 at 11:02 AM · Report this
2
Anthony Johnson was indeed a black slaveowner, at a time when the difference between "indentured servant" and "slave" was very unclear because there was still a cultural proscription against enslaving Christians, and no clear association yet between black skin and slavery. I don't quite remember the years, but this was in the 1600s.

He was not, however, the first slaveowner ever in the Americas. That's got to go to Columbus, who seized Taino and other indigenous peoples on his first trip to the Caribbean. In North America, Europeans tried at times to take native peoples prisoner, but their ability to keep them permanently as slaves was constrained (slaves could easily run away, they often were kidnapped in order to make them Christians and therefore part of European communities in ways slaves are not, Haudenosaunee control of the Northeast in particular kept European expansion in check, etc).

Back to Johnson. While not the first slaveowner, he's the first black slaveowner on record. He had a black indentured servant who (along with one or two white indentured servants, I forget) ran away and were recaptured. As was typical for this situation (if you run away from your master before your indenture is up, you are "stealing" your master's "property"), the indenture of the white servants was extended by several years. In court, though, Johnson argued successfully that his black servant's indenture should be indefinite on the basis of the servant's black skin. This is one of the earliest legal rulings associating blackness and slavery.

Of interest may also be Elizabeth Kay Grinstead. In the 1650s she successfully sued for custody of her son and freedom for both of them since her son had a white father; under English law, the status of the child followed the father. As a result of her success, the law was changed so that the status of children followed the mother (including both slaves and indentured servants - so one's childhood could be spent in indenture and freedom would come usually in one's 20s).

Anyway, Krafft is a piece of shit. Don't showcase his art anymore, but if galleries don't want to get rid of his work (and I don't think they should), then they should put a historical writeup of the history of the pieces.
More...
Posted by sahara29 on February 13, 2013 at 10:44 AM · Report this
1
"I've always had a knack and a penchant for going toward humorous irony."
C. Krafft

humorous, funny, ironic?
none of the above.

And if he is indeed a "White Nationalist" (or Nazi) then propoganda, not art, it is. If he is not, shame on everyone for buying into this self-promoting asshole hater at the expense of the obvious.

Posted by dontdrinkthekoolaid on February 13, 2013 at 9:23 AM · Report this

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