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Steven Weissman
I'm dark-skinned, wearing a baseball cap—that does not mean I'm a thug. You were obviously enjoying a drunken night out with friends, crossed my path, got in my face and decided to yell, "YO! YO! YO!" waving your hands around like they were guns. Thanks for the humiliation, you privileged, ignorant asshole. It's people like you who make me hate this city so much. I wouldn't mind Seattle having such a small people of color population if Whites here weren't so blatantly ignorant and disrespectful toward us. I've seen a very ugly side of you, Seattle. Sometimes, White women literally run across the street in order to avoid walking down the same sidewalk as me. I'm a queer, Latino university student and human-rights student activist—and you're afraid of me? I've had enough, and I know a lot of POC have as well. As soon as I get my degree, I'm outta here. I'm tired of being in an environment that obligates itself to constantly remind me that I do not belong because I'm dark-skinned. Fine, fuck you, Seattle. Oh, and White girl, you're lucky my White girlfriends weren't there with me that night. They would've kicked your ass right then and there.
—Anonymous
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1
You're right, drawing conclusions about whole groups of people based upon one's own interactions with them is just plain wrong.
2
Sheesh, that is ugly. I wonder, do you take comfort in the knowledge that white people are soon to be in the minority in this country? I do and I'm Eurotrash from my Irish freckles to my Italian hair. Diversity is good. Racism is so old and tired, let's just pull the plug on it.
3
You're right, Anon, most white people are racist, and as a white person, I'd like to apologize for that. We just don't give other ethnic groups a fair shake in this country, especially when they're coming at us down a sidewalk at 2 AM. But you know what? If you can't escape racism at a University in a liberal city like Seattle, where are you gonna go? I hear Alabama's nice this time of year.
You mentioned that you were a Human Rights Activist. From what I understand, those are people who confront the injustices of society in order to change them. It looks like Seattle could use your help. Maybe you should stick around and help change some minds?
You mentioned that you were a Human Rights Activist. From what I understand, those are people who confront the injustices of society in order to change them. It looks like Seattle could use your help. Maybe you should stick around and help change some minds?
4
I applaud the white women who cross the street, if they're walking alone. You're a male, and regardless of race, a potential rapist. Those white women are at least aware of their environment enough to not put themselves in danger if they can't defend themselves adequately.
The drunk white hipster, though, I can't defend. Bitch.
The drunk white hipster, though, I can't defend. Bitch.
5
This is super rich. It’s nice to see Seattleites showing the same defensiveness I feel when they criticize Southerners. We really are all monkeys from the same barrel.
6
#2: You do realize it's not all about numbers, right? It's also about power, and since a vast majority of the people in power are rich, white men, we are not even close to being a racial minority.
9
Yeah, when I draw conclusions about an ENTIRE MAJOR CITY, I like to only use examples of their most drunk and obnoxious. Makes total sense.
Lame I, Anon. Lame.
Lame I, Anon. Lame.
11
I had a friend who was walking home from work alone and late in Philadelphia. He saw a black man walking in his direction on the same side of the sidewalk. He thought he should cross the street but then his "white guilt" clicked in and he thought that he shouldn't because that would be stereotyping. Guess what? That guy beat him and mugged him. Stereotyping is awful but if it is the crossing the street that annoys you, I think you need to get over it.
12
"I wouldn't mind Seattle having such a small people of color population if Whites here weren't so blatantly ignorant and disrespectful toward us."
We've had about 5 dozen unproked attacks by lynch mobs in this city where people were mauled-sometimes to death. Some of the victims were elderly, pregnant women, blind, in wheelchairs, children. 100% of the perps have been black or Hispanic. 100% of the victims have been white or Asian. Cry me a river. 7 black guys attacked a white women in front of the Wild Rose a couple weeks ago. Didn't even make the newspaper. Ditto for a 70 year old man assaulted and mugged by a couple Hispanic guys around the same time. If the races in these crimes, or dozens of similar ones (Tuba Man, Tony Vega, James Paroline, etc, etc) were reveresed they would be called racial hate crimes. Black (and Hispanic) crime against whites and Asians is epidemic is the Northwest. And no one can be outraged, even when the victims are elderly or in wheelcharis. If it happened the other way around the shit would hit the fan. I care more about human life than your ego, anon. How about some outrage over those who attack senior citizens, pregnant woman, and paraplegics? The worse you can do is cry that someone came up to you and said "yo"? I've had several dozen instances where black and Hispanics have come up to me and said far more racist and mysogynistic things than that. The vast majority of homophobia, anti-semetism, anti-asian racism, and mysogyny I've witnesses in Seattle comes from "men o color" so cry me a river. And most white folks (and gays) living in Seattle been on the receiving end of unprovoked abuse from minorities too. Big deal.
We've had about 5 dozen unproked attacks by lynch mobs in this city where people were mauled-sometimes to death. Some of the victims were elderly, pregnant women, blind, in wheelchairs, children. 100% of the perps have been black or Hispanic. 100% of the victims have been white or Asian. Cry me a river. 7 black guys attacked a white women in front of the Wild Rose a couple weeks ago. Didn't even make the newspaper. Ditto for a 70 year old man assaulted and mugged by a couple Hispanic guys around the same time. If the races in these crimes, or dozens of similar ones (Tuba Man, Tony Vega, James Paroline, etc, etc) were reveresed they would be called racial hate crimes. Black (and Hispanic) crime against whites and Asians is epidemic is the Northwest. And no one can be outraged, even when the victims are elderly or in wheelcharis. If it happened the other way around the shit would hit the fan. I care more about human life than your ego, anon. How about some outrage over those who attack senior citizens, pregnant woman, and paraplegics? The worse you can do is cry that someone came up to you and said "yo"? I've had several dozen instances where black and Hispanics have come up to me and said far more racist and mysogynistic things than that. The vast majority of homophobia, anti-semetism, anti-asian racism, and mysogyny I've witnesses in Seattle comes from "men o color" so cry me a river. And most white folks (and gays) living in Seattle been on the receiving end of unprovoked abuse from minorities too. Big deal.
14
As described, the girl was being overtly racist, drunk or not. she's lucky that he isn't a violent type. A lot of people would react physically to some asshole stranger pushing in too close. For those of you upset because Anon is stereotyping white people based on this incident, get a clue, he's sterotyping based on a lifetime of incidents. A good test for racism is if you will stay on the same side of the street if the oncoming person is the same color as you.
15
If you can't handle the attitude toward POC in Seattle, good luck finding anyplace else in the world to live like you want to because we are the most tolerant city anywhere bar none.
Maybe you should be an activist for white victims of crime perpetrated by POC, because that is what makes girls cross the street to get away from your rapper-thug uniform.
What that white girl did was wrong, but it may be an indication of the growing resentment people in this city are feeling toward gangster wannabe idiots committing random acts of violence all over.
Go ahead and move, the decent people there will be scared of you too.
Maybe you should be an activist for white victims of crime perpetrated by POC, because that is what makes girls cross the street to get away from your rapper-thug uniform.
What that white girl did was wrong, but it may be an indication of the growing resentment people in this city are feeling toward gangster wannabe idiots committing random acts of violence all over.
Go ahead and move, the decent people there will be scared of you too.
16
@14- She's lucky he isn't the violent type? WTF. She said "yo". No, he's lucky he's not the violent type. As I stated above, I've been on the receiving end (and witnessed) dozens of far more abusive behavior from POC in Seattle then what is described above. I can't imagine anyone suggesting someone has the right to use violence against a black or Hispanic person who makes a minor slight towards them. Can you?
19
@15- Wearing a baseball cap and being non-white is suddenly a "rapper-thug uniform"? That is insane.
Also, people act racist because they are racists. There is absolutely NO excuse for being a racist including "resentment".
Your last sentence is really telling. The "decent people"? You're clearly referring to white people. You are a racist. Own up to it, and realize you're despicable.
Also, people act racist because they are racists. There is absolutely NO excuse for being a racist including "resentment".
Your last sentence is really telling. The "decent people"? You're clearly referring to white people. You are a racist. Own up to it, and realize you're despicable.
20
After the tubaman incident I armed myself. I don't cross the street to get away from packs of teen wannabe gangsters anymore. Instead I'm looking forward to the day I can legally get rid of some of the vermin that plaque this city.
Someone has to do it, The Police, Courts and Parents of these rodents won't do anything about it. I will... happy hunting!
Someone has to do it, The Police, Courts and Parents of these rodents won't do anything about it. I will... happy hunting!
22
So great! David, I appreciate you enticing us Slog bastards over here to read the juicier I, Anonymi. I'm one of those readers who sometimes doesn't get to the main paper's site without a little goading from the likes of you. I wish you'd do it for Last Days as well...
23
Anyone who capitalizes races (White etc.) is a tremendous asshole. Maybe they could tell you were an asshole and THAT'S why the crossed the street.
24
@4 - Dead-on. See also, Schrödinger's Rapist.
http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-…’s-rapist-or-a-guy’s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/
http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-…’s-rapist-or-a-guy’s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/
26
Yes, Anon, how do you know those people crossing the street to avoid you aren't doing so because you're a man? I bet some probably were.
I do the exact same thing after sundown, if I see a man coming toward me. During the day, it depends. A boy or an old man, no. A group of boisterous teenage males, definitely. Every other man; depends how they act. But at night, if it's a side street, always.
You'd be surprised how many women are wary of you simply because you're a man, not your skin color. It's the reason why my next door neighbor literally won't leave her home after dark.
You've had once instance of someone getting your face because of your race? Then consider yourself lucky you're not a woman, because then you'd be getting comments like that on a nearly daily basis from men who feel they have the right to get in your face and comment on your body, your clothes, or why you're not smiling. Even in allegedly "liberal" Seattle.
I do the exact same thing after sundown, if I see a man coming toward me. During the day, it depends. A boy or an old man, no. A group of boisterous teenage males, definitely. Every other man; depends how they act. But at night, if it's a side street, always.
You'd be surprised how many women are wary of you simply because you're a man, not your skin color. It's the reason why my next door neighbor literally won't leave her home after dark.
You've had once instance of someone getting your face because of your race? Then consider yourself lucky you're not a woman, because then you'd be getting comments like that on a nearly daily basis from men who feel they have the right to get in your face and comment on your body, your clothes, or why you're not smiling. Even in allegedly "liberal" Seattle.
28
What #26 said. I cross the street based on people's clothes and demeanor, not race.
Sorry, but it becomes an instinct for a lot of women. More often than not the person is totally harmless, but if it comes down to me looking like an asshole or me being harrassed, I'd prefer to just look like the asshole.
But yes, the finger guns girl sounds ridiculous.
Sorry, but it becomes an instinct for a lot of women. More often than not the person is totally harmless, but if it comes down to me looking like an asshole or me being harrassed, I'd prefer to just look like the asshole.
But yes, the finger guns girl sounds ridiculous.
29
Anonymous, I hear ya, I've had similar experiences. It happens. White folks can never understand what it's like to be a minority. It's like trying to describe the color blue to a person that been blind all their life.
You say you are a Human Rights activists yet you allow these incidents to make you want to run away? That's fine but you gonna be running forever if you're looking for a place with no race issues.
Grow some thicker skin. Hang in there and stick around be a part of the change don't run away cuz some dumb young white bitch got in your face.
You say you are a Human Rights activists yet you allow these incidents to make you want to run away? That's fine but you gonna be running forever if you're looking for a place with no race issues.
Grow some thicker skin. Hang in there and stick around be a part of the change don't run away cuz some dumb young white bitch got in your face.
30
Wow. I'm amazed at the white privilege apologists on this thread. I didn't think Seattle whiteys were so sensitive. And if it's not an apologist, it's a "my Seattle hardship is worse than yours!"
In the unforgettable words of our dearly departed Lindy West: "POOP POOP POOP POOP."
In the unforgettable words of our dearly departed Lindy West: "POOP POOP POOP POOP."
32
Also, as a human rights activist, I'd expect you to be more empathetic towards women, since we as a group are also treated quite badly in this country, you may have heard.
33
I cross the street when passing women on a dark sidewalks late at night. I don't want to seem threatening even though I'm harmless. I walk fast and wear heavy boots, so I can see how that could freak a girl out.
34
Am I the only one that thinks none of this behavior indicates racism at all?
In fact, the letter sounds more racist than the shit he's describing.
In fact, the letter sounds more racist than the shit he's describing.
35
Fuck you I Anon. I'm a white male and I'd cross the street just to avoid the air that this whiny race-baiting retard breaths.
37
@34 agreed. She just seems like an idiot to me. All racists are idiots, but not all idiots are racists.
38
Women cross the street when I'm approaching as well, and I'm a white male. I don't see it as racism or sexism, but as common sense self-preservation.
You see racism because that's what you want to see. If you move to another city, I guarantee your experience will be worse.
You said "Fine, fuck you, Seattle. Oh, and White girl, you're lucky my White girlfriends weren't there with me that night. They would've kicked your ass right then and there."
You sound like a person I would want to avoid on the sidewalk. Lose the thug attitude and the anger and things will get better.
You see racism because that's what you want to see. If you move to another city, I guarantee your experience will be worse.
You said "Fine, fuck you, Seattle. Oh, and White girl, you're lucky my White girlfriends weren't there with me that night. They would've kicked your ass right then and there."
You sound like a person I would want to avoid on the sidewalk. Lose the thug attitude and the anger and things will get better.
41
Like many women, I learned the hard way and ALWAYS cross the street entirely based on gender. (No offense to the male population, OK? Get over it.) But I'd rather have a guy yell that I'm racist (and they do, which I hate, because what, I'm going to yell back and explain that my decision is based on gender not color?) than take my chances with a potential perv.
As far as this guy's letter goes, his experience does sound particularly gross. I don't blame him for sounding off.
As far as this guy's letter goes, his experience does sound particularly gross. I don't blame him for sounding off.
44
AMEN! "the white girl with a united colors of bennetton complex" who can't handle real interaction with POC. not to mention the car alarm people, who have to pause right in front of you or obnoxiously activate it to show you they've got an alarm on it. like you're on a mission to break in it when you have bags of groceries in your hands (and there would be plenty of better cars around to choose from if that was your plan). not sure if this is just a seattle problem though. but it's a think-fast stereotype of unknown browns "approaching" from some of the most "open-minded and liberal" folks that inhabit this city. i'm from seattle and i think this city is based on plenty of hypocrite-like behavior, unfortunately. don't know where it stems from (outside sources or inside) but I do know the people who move here and intend to FOLLOW or EXPECT Seattle "trends" can be just as guilty. Godspeed!
46
what KIND of baseball hat was it? closer to fly-fisherman/freeheel skiier, or closer to skateboarder/hippity hopper, with the brim pointing sideways? it's very important for us white folks to know.
47
There's a lot of really embarrassing comments on this thread that range from outraged white privilege (How dare you say you've been treated in a racist fashion! I know I'm not a racist and it makes me uncomfortable so it must not be true!) to blatantly racist (and in some cases disgustingly violent). I'm surethe yo-yo chick is not the first person to behave in an ignorant manner, and given that Seattle is relatively homogeneous it doesn't surprise me that many people in the majority are blithely unaware of the way their behavior effects others. However, as others have already said, there's a difference between yo-yo chick's racist behavior and crossing the street when you see a strange man. 1/3 of women will be sexually assaulted, and while most of those assaults will be by people they know, women are constantly chided for not being aware enough of their environment/sober enough/wearing the right clothes, and basically get the message that if some stranger drags them into an alley and assaults them it's there fault for not being prepared. Regardless of your skin tone, if you are a man and have been in the vicinity of a strange woman in a place where she feels either confined or isolated, you have been evaluated as a potential rapist. The fact that you don't evaluate every person you pass as a potential rapist and are offended that someone might worry that you'll attack them is actually your male privilege talking.
48
The majority of responses in this thread are trending to proving Anon's point. Some overtly, but most in that covert "but wait a minute...people cross the street on me too so that means you can't possibly be experiencing what you think you are" way that exudes defensiveness and dismissiveness. He uses two examples of what POC see every day over and over again and everybody freaks out. That's racism for you.
49
@14 do you ever get that weird feeling when you are about to cross a street because it's necessary for your trajectory, but in doing so you unintentionally avoid someone who is not white, and then you start to feel guilty that they are probably thinking you crossed the street because they were not white, and not because you had to cross the street to get to where you wanted to go?
50
@37, glad to hear I'm not alone.
@44, I think you're reading into meaningless behavior. Which brings up a larger point...That you've been trained to see racism everywhere, even where it's not.
And is assuming white people are usually racist kinda racist? It think it is.
Assuming they're 'privileged'? Racist.
Assuming their behavior is directed towards you? Um, that's solipsistic, narcissistic, and paranoid.
If this is common among POC, I might just have to become racist.
@44, I think you're reading into meaningless behavior. Which brings up a larger point...That you've been trained to see racism everywhere, even where it's not.
And is assuming white people are usually racist kinda racist? It think it is.
Assuming they're 'privileged'? Racist.
Assuming their behavior is directed towards you? Um, that's solipsistic, narcissistic, and paranoid.
If this is common among POC, I might just have to become racist.
51
Okay, here's the thing. I hate to say it, but what you just experienced I (a white girl) experience at least four times a week while waiting in line for the bus, except in my case...it's dark skinned men getting in my face yelling shit like "Hey Shorty! Hey Shorty!" It was dumb for this girl to go there, but the minority of your brown brothers who spend six hours a day at 3rd and Pike yelling at every vagina they see have ruined it for you. So while she was in the wrong, respect is a two way street and to put all shitty white girls in one category is like me putting all dark-skinned men in the category of ignorant cat-callers.
52
Every one of us has to go out and face the assholery that is the general public and deal with people's snap judgments of us. I understand how being Latino, you face more of that than your average White student and that White people are, in general, oblivious to the subtle discrimination you face with regularity. But the world is always going to be full of dicks, and you can't expect that you'll find a totally racist-free, obnoxious-drunk-girl free place in the world. You know I do when people assume things about me that are incorrect and rude? Respond gently but seriously that I'm not the kind of person they thought I was right off the bat if I have a chance and move on. Having their asses kicked just proves you *are* a thug! Go forth and make a life for yourself that is respectable and enjoyable and boom: you win.
P.S. To echo everyone else, seriously, take no offense to women crossing the street. We believe any man may attack (which is kind of a shitty assumption to make about them just 'cause they're male, actually). It's better to be safe than sorry, regardless of potential perp's race.
P.S. To echo everyone else, seriously, take no offense to women crossing the street. We believe any man may attack (which is kind of a shitty assumption to make about them just 'cause they're male, actually). It's better to be safe than sorry, regardless of potential perp's race.
53
Welcome to Seattle! This comment thread is very representative of the population. Overly sensitive, secretly racist whiteys who get "offended" because you don't believe they're as open-minded and progressive as they believe themselves to be. Boondock-central!
54
Also, thanks the ladies on here hijacking this thread to talk about male privilege. This is why I stalk you at night on side streets and back alleys.
55
> human-rights student activist
Great start on fighting for human rights by pledging to leave an area where you feel people aren't being treated with respect. Keep up the good flight.
Great start on fighting for human rights by pledging to leave an area where you feel people aren't being treated with respect. Keep up the good flight.
56
Crossing the street to avoid an unknown quantity is perfectly reasonable self-preservation behavior, whether it is a male or female engaging in it. It really only takes one assault to get over feeling guilty about it.
61
@41: Perfectly said. This drunk girl was being incredibly racist, and that's horrible, and I'm sure IA has hundreds of other experiences of blatant, casual racism he could recount.
But yeah, as to the second part, when I'm walking by myself I'm wary of men, period. I can see how men of color might mistakenly take it as an extension of the racist knee-jerk fear they encounter constantly. I'm sure sometimes it is. But most men, regardless of race, have very little idea how much women have to put up with just walking around.
Not worse than what men of color experience. Not better. Just different, and both sets of experience should be acknowledged.
But yeah, as to the second part, when I'm walking by myself I'm wary of men, period. I can see how men of color might mistakenly take it as an extension of the racist knee-jerk fear they encounter constantly. I'm sure sometimes it is. But most men, regardless of race, have very little idea how much women have to put up with just walking around.
Not worse than what men of color experience. Not better. Just different, and both sets of experience should be acknowledged.
62
This board just shows how racist Seattle is. I've lived here and on the East Coast and there is so much more racism here because there people interact with minorities on a much more regular basis. It's just so sad people want to believe Seattle is tolerant and can be so ignorant as to what's really going on in our community.
63
If Phil Ochs were still alive, he'd get another two or three verses for "Love Me, I'm a Liberal" out of this comments thread.
Also...the ghost of the early Malcolm X is reading this out there somewhere and saying "SEE! SEE! I TOLD YOU!!"
Also...the ghost of the early Malcolm X is reading this out there somewhere and saying "SEE! SEE! I TOLD YOU!!"
64
@1 - very well stated.
To the author of the rant: You offer no proof of any racism. Your written assumption and interpretation of the white girl, however, is very racist. You, are the racist in the story. You call her "White", yet you call yourself a "Person of Color"! You don't see that as being racist? If you weren't racist you'd not have used a PC term to describe yourself and then a racially derogatory term to describe the woman by her associated color. I'm Mexican, and I've experienced a plethora of racism upon my person and intellect, but never once did I play the race card, rather, I take them head on and show them that they too are not of this land and that they too have stereotypical qualities because of their race (or rather, because of their culture/ region).
Yelling "YO YO YO" and making gun figures with your hands hardly equates to racism, and in fact, is typical of people all over this country, people of all races, to talk and behave like that: Have you never seen MTV?
Quit playing the race card, it's truly pathetic and a symptom of a weak minded person: regardless of the race of the person playing the card, it's cowardly and ignorant. Use your wit, your intellect, and if physically attacked, your fists. But playing this race game does absolutely nothing to further the cause of equality. And before you go insulting me, remember, I am Mexican, so no, I am not being racist against a Latino here, but I am simply holding you accountable for your racism and weak minded perspective on Seattle. Grow a spine and quit blaming others for your problems. Yeah, a woman runs up to you on the street and is obnoxious, but totally in line with her socialization, yet, you can call her by her color, call her names and make general assumptions about white people and Seattleites, and yet, she's the racist? For the record, don't ever call me a "Person of Color" or "White". I'm just Joe, and there is no need to judge me (or this person you describe) by her race.
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To the author of the rant: You offer no proof of any racism. Your written assumption and interpretation of the white girl, however, is very racist. You, are the racist in the story. You call her "White", yet you call yourself a "Person of Color"! You don't see that as being racist? If you weren't racist you'd not have used a PC term to describe yourself and then a racially derogatory term to describe the woman by her associated color. I'm Mexican, and I've experienced a plethora of racism upon my person and intellect, but never once did I play the race card, rather, I take them head on and show them that they too are not of this land and that they too have stereotypical qualities because of their race (or rather, because of their culture/ region).
Yelling "YO YO YO" and making gun figures with your hands hardly equates to racism, and in fact, is typical of people all over this country, people of all races, to talk and behave like that: Have you never seen MTV?
Quit playing the race card, it's truly pathetic and a symptom of a weak minded person: regardless of the race of the person playing the card, it's cowardly and ignorant. Use your wit, your intellect, and if physically attacked, your fists. But playing this race game does absolutely nothing to further the cause of equality. And before you go insulting me, remember, I am Mexican, so no, I am not being racist against a Latino here, but I am simply holding you accountable for your racism and weak minded perspective on Seattle. Grow a spine and quit blaming others for your problems. Yeah, a woman runs up to you on the street and is obnoxious, but totally in line with her socialization, yet, you can call her by her color, call her names and make general assumptions about white people and Seattleites, and yet, she's the racist? For the record, don't ever call me a "Person of Color" or "White". I'm just Joe, and there is no need to judge me (or this person you describe) by her race.
65
I'm a white woman. If I'm walking alone at night I tend to avoid young men of all races, in groups more than alone, but that too. If you don't understand that, ask some women (of any color) about it.
66
@54, I only see a tiny bit of "male privilege" chatter, but mostly just explanations of why a woman might cross the street to avoid him that has nothing to do with Anon's race. It's his gender we're discriminating against! Letting him know not everything he perceives as racist is in fact the act of a racist (that statement is not to imply that Seattle doesn't have racists; surely we do).
And most aren't all "poor me, I have to cross the street," but "you gotta understand why I'm crossing the street; it's not meant to offend."
And most aren't all "poor me, I have to cross the street," but "you gotta understand why I'm crossing the street; it's not meant to offend."
68
@51 I know exactly what you're saying- I've been harassed for being white, too. It's uncomfortable to talk about it- but like, I've never once in my life harassed a stranger on the street (black or white) or called them any names. I had a black classmate call me a dog-fucker to my face in front of other people (I had never done anything to her to deserve that). But personally, I have never once called a black person a bad name and I've certainly not sexually harassed anyone. I've been nothing but respectul to minorities, sometimes even deferred to them because of white guilt and all that PC shit.
But what I've found is that there are some black people out there that really hate white people. It may be because of white racists they've encountered that they hate white people, but I am personally not racist and don't deserved to be labeled as a KKK member or harassed on the street or called any names.
I have encountered black people that didn't like me on the basis of my skin color and they made lots of racist comments in front of me. I don't categorize all black people as being the same. I don't make racist statements against black people. I grew up with black friends and dated a few black guys, too. The only time I ever got harassed for being in an interracial couple was from a group of black women- I didn't get called a cracker bitch or a dog fucker by rednecks..it was from black women.
I have experienced reverse racism, so I no longer assume anything or feel white guilt. Black people are no better than white people when it comes to racism- my former black best friend called her hispanic neighbors "spicks" and so did her dad. Other black friends made comments about asians and hispanics and indians, too. In my white family we never call any minorities derogatory names.
I have been mugged by a black man in broad daylight when I lived in Chicago. I saw a Hispanic woman get mugged by some hispanic street punks on bikes. But I still don't use derogatory language to describe anyone or hold a grudge against all black men b/c one black man mugged me. I don't call anyone a spick, the n-word, or any other racist terms. In spite of my many negative experiences, I don't use racist terms or discriminate against anyone b/c of their ethnicity or race. Bigots aren't always white.
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But what I've found is that there are some black people out there that really hate white people. It may be because of white racists they've encountered that they hate white people, but I am personally not racist and don't deserved to be labeled as a KKK member or harassed on the street or called any names.
I have encountered black people that didn't like me on the basis of my skin color and they made lots of racist comments in front of me. I don't categorize all black people as being the same. I don't make racist statements against black people. I grew up with black friends and dated a few black guys, too. The only time I ever got harassed for being in an interracial couple was from a group of black women- I didn't get called a cracker bitch or a dog fucker by rednecks..it was from black women.
I have experienced reverse racism, so I no longer assume anything or feel white guilt. Black people are no better than white people when it comes to racism- my former black best friend called her hispanic neighbors "spicks" and so did her dad. Other black friends made comments about asians and hispanics and indians, too. In my white family we never call any minorities derogatory names.
I have been mugged by a black man in broad daylight when I lived in Chicago. I saw a Hispanic woman get mugged by some hispanic street punks on bikes. But I still don't use derogatory language to describe anyone or hold a grudge against all black men b/c one black man mugged me. I don't call anyone a spick, the n-word, or any other racist terms. In spite of my many negative experiences, I don't use racist terms or discriminate against anyone b/c of their ethnicity or race. Bigots aren't always white.
69
All I can say is DON'T MOVE TO SAINT LOUIS.
I guarantee you I live in the most racist city in the country.I've been to a few places, New York, LA, Las Angels. None of those places have the racism, segregation and violence, that STL has. I feel sorry for you, but there is no where that you can go to escape that bull shit, it's everywhere. BTW That white girl would have been shot had she done that in the Lou.
I guarantee you I live in the most racist city in the country.I've been to a few places, New York, LA, Las Angels. None of those places have the racism, segregation and violence, that STL has. I feel sorry for you, but there is no where that you can go to escape that bull shit, it's everywhere. BTW That white girl would have been shot had she done that in the Lou.
70
The "Yo Yo Yo" thing = Racist and drunk stupidity. That sucks.
The "crossing the street at night to avoid you" thing = people, particularly a member of vulnerable victim group, have a right to keep themselves safe even IF it's an incorrect perception that hurts your feelings. Live with it.
The "crossing the street at night to avoid you" thing = people, particularly a member of vulnerable victim group, have a right to keep themselves safe even IF it's an incorrect perception that hurts your feelings. Live with it.
72
Racism is a dumb fucking topic. Can we all just admit that we're racists, and that it's fine to be racist? Because everyone is, and that's fine.
73
@69 - Agreed on St. Louis. I lived in in various places throughout the south (Texas, Florida, Alabama), as well as St. Louis, and the latter is hands down the worse. And when you're worse than Montgomery, AL, that's really saying something.
74
If thugs could just have a specific uniform that only they wear everyone's life would be so much easier.
75
Let's just get one thing completely clear: Decent people do NOT wear baseball caps. They are a fashion disaster. You should be issued a citation if you wear one in public (unless you are, in fact, playing baseball). And if you wear one backwards or sideways, you should do hard time.
78
@64, brilliantly said.
Many people seem to forget that, especially in this part of the world, we are ultimately responsible for our feelings, attitudes, and qualities of life. Claiming persecution and calling others out usually yields poor results.
Many people seem to forget that, especially in this part of the world, we are ultimately responsible for our feelings, attitudes, and qualities of life. Claiming persecution and calling others out usually yields poor results.
79
"You were obviously enjoying a drunken night out with friends, crossed my path, got in my face and decided to yell, "YO! YO! YO!" waving your hands around like they were guns. Thanks for the humiliation...."
And I was minding my own business when a black male passed by and shook his fist and yelled "black power" in my face. And I was minding my own business when a couple of drunk black guys started threatening me. And I witnessed a white gay couple minding their own business when a couple of Hispanic guys started calling them fags. And I know countless white women who are minding their own business when men, including "POC", make lewd and mysogynistic comments at them. In short, so what? Your encounter is no worse than many whites have with Hispanics and blacks. Boo-hoo f-ing hoo. If whites in Seattle were so racist you'd have more to bitch about then something no different than everyone else, of every race, expereinces occasionally. Get over yourself.
And I was minding my own business when a black male passed by and shook his fist and yelled "black power" in my face. And I was minding my own business when a couple of drunk black guys started threatening me. And I witnessed a white gay couple minding their own business when a couple of Hispanic guys started calling them fags. And I know countless white women who are minding their own business when men, including "POC", make lewd and mysogynistic comments at them. In short, so what? Your encounter is no worse than many whites have with Hispanics and blacks. Boo-hoo f-ing hoo. If whites in Seattle were so racist you'd have more to bitch about then something no different than everyone else, of every race, expereinces occasionally. Get over yourself.
80
I'm with @64 Joe, and @65 basmatic, and @70 /@71 tkc, who already covered what I was about to add to basmatic's post, and @78 mtnlion.
82
Maybe she thought you were a thug because of... the MALT LIQUOR AND COCAINE you were covered with!
83
@64: "Yelling "YO YO YO" and making gun figures with your hands hardly equates to racism, and in fact, is typical of people all over this country, people of all races, to talk and behave like that: Have you never seen MTV?"
Ahahahah, I needed that.
Ahahahah, I needed that.
84
@67 Better sexist than raped. When the percentage of women who are sexually assaulted drops from the 30s to single digits, maybe we'll reconsider crossing the street as a precautionary measure.
86
You don't have the right for every stranger to feel safe around you. You're a guy. You're going to have to accept that.
87
I like the part where you do the requisite "but some of my friends are -race I'm blatantly hating on- so it's okay!!"
88
@14: Regardless of what race you are, if I am walking down the street in the wee hours of the morning, I am going to try my hardest to avoid you.
You can cry racism all you want, you can bitch that I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt (and why should I?) and then you can write about it in your blog where all of your online friends will jump to your defense and agree that you're in the right. Just don't expect me to care, because I am busy trying to get myself home -safely-.
And it really doesn't matter that Anon is stereotyping based on a lifetime of experience. It doesn't matter if this has happened to him once or if it happens to him every day. None of that changes that fact that he is turning around and taking part in the -exact same behaviors- that he's getting so pissy about other people taking part in.
You can cry racism all you want, you can bitch that I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt (and why should I?) and then you can write about it in your blog where all of your online friends will jump to your defense and agree that you're in the right. Just don't expect me to care, because I am busy trying to get myself home -safely-.
And it really doesn't matter that Anon is stereotyping based on a lifetime of experience. It doesn't matter if this has happened to him once or if it happens to him every day. None of that changes that fact that he is turning around and taking part in the -exact same behaviors- that he's getting so pissy about other people taking part in.
90
Taking you at your word, that you embrace human rights activism, I am offering some advice from the vantage point of many years of activism.
First, never assume! When you made the assumption that the female jackhole who accosted you was local, statistically, you are probably incorrect.
Seattle locals became a minority sometime in the 1990s, with jackholes from California, New York, Indiana, Texas, Pennsylvania, Somalia, India and China in the majority. (She sounded like so many Californians who have relocated here.)
Similarly, don’t blindly follow politicians like so many feckless and useless unions do today, even though President Obama has given numerous speeches attacking teachers and teachers’ unions, made no attempt to support the Employee Free Choice Act, nor given any speeches on behalf of collective bargaining or workers’ rights!
The only valid unions in America are the nurses’ unions, with Leo Girard’s steelworkers and the Longshoremen perhaps coming in a distant second. (As the great American thinker, Thorstein Veblen once said, it’s usually about business unionism.)
Under President Obama, workers’ rights have receded dramatically --- with plenty of excuses on their end, but it appears to be the usual script! (When workers’ rights are whittled away, all rights disappear; minority rights, women’s rights, etc., etc.)
Secondly, whenever possible, keep a low profile and avoid using your legal name or give any hint as to your real identity. The premier banks and corporations (beginning at the Federal Reserve level) maintain “no hire” and “troublemaker” lists on any and all activists, whistleblowers, real journalists, etc., which --- unless you’re independently wealth --- can make your life hell, economically speaking. (Exactly like the Kerry Killinger’s Washington Mutual’s “appraiser no-hire” list – a list of honest appraisers who could not be compromised.)
Also, you will be visible and vulnerable to preemptive arrests, which began with the Bush administration and have greatly increased with the Obama administration, President Obama even reaching across to foreign countries to do his preemptive arrests. (Please see link below.)
http://www.truth-out.org/why-president-o…
(Anonymity allows positive actions, such as the action taken by an enterprising activist who insinuated themself into Nordstrom’s executive offices, where they removed incriminating evidence from a wastebasket, then passed it on to Global Exchange, aiding their lawsuit against Nordstrom’s and ending with an out-of-court settlement, diverting some of Nordstrom’s profits towards positive ends!)
Thirdly, you may believe by joining some non-profit or NGO you will be working towards positive change --- if so, think again!
Be advised, the purpose of the non-profit is to circumvent political change --- just take a look at the laws and restrictions surrounding them. (We used to have a wonderfully lady activist in the Seattle area who brilliantly explained this; sadly, she passed away some time back.)
If many, if not most, of those 45,000 NGOs in Haiti were actual charitable outfits, instead of Wall Street outfits, the situation would be mightily different there!
Many so-called environmental or conservation groups were either long ago co-opted by Wall Street, or they were false fronts to begin with (e.g., Nature Conservancy, with the co-opted ones being League of Conservation Voters and the Sierra Club; the Pew Charitable Trusts have been working strenuously to co-opt the entire environmental movement).
Please never accept the cover story, but research what you plan on working towards: countless well-intentioned people support cap-and-trade, blithely unaware that it originated within the Reagan administration and Enron (during its most corrupt period), and that it is simply another extension of Wall Street’s shadow banking system!
Let this not deter you from working towards progressive change --- for that is our only hope and, hopefully, this advice won’t fall on deaf ears.
Peace and Joy
More...
ADVICE TO A YOUNG ACTIVIST
Taking you at your word, that you embrace human rights activism, I am offering some advice from the vantage point of many years of activism.
First, never assume! When you made the assumption that the female jackhole who accosted you was local, statistically, you are probably incorrect.
Seattle locals became a minority sometime in the 1990s, with jackholes from California, New York, Indiana, Texas, Pennsylvania, Somalia, India and China in the majority. (She sounded like so many Californians who have relocated here.)
Similarly, don’t blindly follow politicians like so many feckless and useless unions do today, even though President Obama has given numerous speeches attacking teachers and teachers’ unions, made no attempt to support the Employee Free Choice Act, nor given any speeches on behalf of collective bargaining or workers’ rights!
The only valid unions in America are the nurses’ unions, with Leo Girard’s steelworkers and the Longshoremen perhaps coming in a distant second. (As the great American thinker, Thorstein Veblen once said, it’s usually about business unionism.)
Under President Obama, workers’ rights have receded dramatically --- with plenty of excuses on their end, but it appears to be the usual script! (When workers’ rights are whittled away, all rights disappear; minority rights, women’s rights, etc., etc.)
Secondly, whenever possible, keep a low profile and avoid using your legal name or give any hint as to your real identity. The premier banks and corporations (beginning at the Federal Reserve level) maintain “no hire” and “troublemaker” lists on any and all activists, whistleblowers, real journalists, etc., which --- unless you’re independently wealth --- can make your life hell, economically speaking. (Exactly like the Kerry Killinger’s Washington Mutual’s “appraiser no-hire” list – a list of honest appraisers who could not be compromised.)
Also, you will be visible and vulnerable to preemptive arrests, which began with the Bush administration and have greatly increased with the Obama administration, President Obama even reaching across to foreign countries to do his preemptive arrests. (Please see link below.)
http://www.truth-out.org/why-president-o…
(Anonymity allows positive actions, such as the action taken by an enterprising activist who insinuated themself into Nordstrom’s executive offices, where they removed incriminating evidence from a wastebasket, then passed it on to Global Exchange, aiding their lawsuit against Nordstrom’s and ending with an out-of-court settlement, diverting some of Nordstrom’s profits towards positive ends!)
Thirdly, you may believe by joining some non-profit or NGO you will be working towards positive change --- if so, think again!
Be advised, the purpose of the non-profit is to circumvent political change --- just take a look at the laws and restrictions surrounding them. (We used to have a wonderfully lady activist in the Seattle area who brilliantly explained this; sadly, she passed away some time back.)
If many, if not most, of those 45,000 NGOs in Haiti were actual charitable outfits, instead of Wall Street outfits, the situation would be mightily different there!
Many so-called environmental or conservation groups were either long ago co-opted by Wall Street, or they were false fronts to begin with (e.g., Nature Conservancy, with the co-opted ones being League of Conservation Voters and the Sierra Club; the Pew Charitable Trusts have been working strenuously to co-opt the entire environmental movement).
Please never accept the cover story, but research what you plan on working towards: countless well-intentioned people support cap-and-trade, blithely unaware that it originated within the Reagan administration and Enron (during its most corrupt period), and that it is simply another extension of Wall Street’s shadow banking system!
Let this not deter you from working towards progressive change --- for that is our only hope and, hopefully, this advice won’t fall on deaf ears.
Peace and Joy
91
@67 ....Said a guy who is over 6-feet tall and of substantial build.
I don't doubt that you can walk down the streets at night without fear, but you know me, so you shouldn't need to be told why I can't, Joe.
I don't doubt that you can walk down the streets at night without fear, but you know me, so you shouldn't need to be told why I can't, Joe.
92
Defending sexism and racism because of self-indulgent fears? Sounds like pseudo-liberals to me.
@67 and friends:
If you're going to quote stats, then you better understand probability .
80% of Washington women’s sexual assault experiences occurred prior to the age of 18 and 90% of victims knew their attacker. This means it's family and friends who should be scrutinized, not the negro walking in the hoodie (no wonder they're always so grump looking).
Per 1000 people the incidences of violent crime in Seattle are:
0.03 Murder
0.16 Rape
2.36 Robbery
3.28 Assault
In the end the chance that a woman being violently assaulted walking down the street is about equivalent to a man and that probability is pretty slim (6 people out of a 1000) or 0.006%. Keep in mind this is all violent crime, the numbers for on-the-street crime are smaller.
This doesn't mean that you are 100% safe (who is?), just that your chance of being violently attacked on the street is tiny compared to other ways of getting injured. For example 1 in 20 bicyclists are injured each year.
If 0.006% still frightens you, rabbits, then you have a responsibility to learn how to defend yourself so that you don't have to act like an asshole. Learn self-defense and (if you live/work in an extraordinarily crime-ridden area) how to use/carry a weapon effectively and safely or get a big dog to walk with (or like the anon writer have a pack of rabid white girls in tow, lol)
Empower yourselves with knowledge and ability and your irrational fears go away. When your fear goes away, you can actually walk the walk of equality and tolerance instead of waiting for prince charming to ride in and make it happen for you.
Otherwise, just be an asshole, scared of everybody else, and embrace it like the conservatives do. Bounce across the streets like a pinball even though your chances of getting hit by a car is greater than being attacked by the swarthy-looking man walking toward you.
Stats from:
http://www.wcsap.org/how-often-does-it-h…
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/seat…
http://www.bikexprt.com/research/petty/g…
More...
@67 and friends:
If you're going to quote stats, then you better understand probability .
80% of Washington women’s sexual assault experiences occurred prior to the age of 18 and 90% of victims knew their attacker. This means it's family and friends who should be scrutinized, not the negro walking in the hoodie (no wonder they're always so grump looking).
Per 1000 people the incidences of violent crime in Seattle are:
0.03 Murder
0.16 Rape
2.36 Robbery
3.28 Assault
In the end the chance that a woman being violently assaulted walking down the street is about equivalent to a man and that probability is pretty slim (6 people out of a 1000) or 0.006%. Keep in mind this is all violent crime, the numbers for on-the-street crime are smaller.
This doesn't mean that you are 100% safe (who is?), just that your chance of being violently attacked on the street is tiny compared to other ways of getting injured. For example 1 in 20 bicyclists are injured each year.
If 0.006% still frightens you, rabbits, then you have a responsibility to learn how to defend yourself so that you don't have to act like an asshole. Learn self-defense and (if you live/work in an extraordinarily crime-ridden area) how to use/carry a weapon effectively and safely or get a big dog to walk with (or like the anon writer have a pack of rabid white girls in tow, lol)
Empower yourselves with knowledge and ability and your irrational fears go away. When your fear goes away, you can actually walk the walk of equality and tolerance instead of waiting for prince charming to ride in and make it happen for you.
Otherwise, just be an asshole, scared of everybody else, and embrace it like the conservatives do. Bounce across the streets like a pinball even though your chances of getting hit by a car is greater than being attacked by the swarthy-looking man walking toward you.
Stats from:
http://www.wcsap.org/how-often-does-it-h…
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/seat…
http://www.bikexprt.com/research/petty/g…
93
@92: Am I *really* acting like an asshole for crossing the street?
I know all the stats on shark attacks, but I still get afraid and I don't swim at dusk. I know the stats on plane crashes, but I still get a little scared on flights and breathe deeply if there's a lot of turbulence--I don't calculate stats to calm myself. The most common human fears--the dark, public speaking, spiders (poisonous or not)--are no longer rational, but that's because we are not perfectly rational beings. The only one that does make sense anymore is fear of falling, which will result in death often.
Consider also the severity of getting hit by a car (it could be bad) to getting forcibly raped (highly psychologically damaging and of the most terrorizing experiences one can have in our society). And that's why plane crashes seem worse and so do shark attacks and so does rape: we perceive them to be much more terrifying and gruesome than a common car accident. We'll avoid them far more fervently.
I know the stats on rape and have taken a self-defense class, but I'm still suspicious of lone men approaching me at night. Don't care if I look like an asshole, I'm not going to risk shit or continue to feel uncomfortable/fearful to prove to a stranger I'm not sexist.
I know all the stats on shark attacks, but I still get afraid and I don't swim at dusk. I know the stats on plane crashes, but I still get a little scared on flights and breathe deeply if there's a lot of turbulence--I don't calculate stats to calm myself. The most common human fears--the dark, public speaking, spiders (poisonous or not)--are no longer rational, but that's because we are not perfectly rational beings. The only one that does make sense anymore is fear of falling, which will result in death often.
Consider also the severity of getting hit by a car (it could be bad) to getting forcibly raped (highly psychologically damaging and of the most terrorizing experiences one can have in our society). And that's why plane crashes seem worse and so do shark attacks and so does rape: we perceive them to be much more terrifying and gruesome than a common car accident. We'll avoid them far more fervently.
I know the stats on rape and have taken a self-defense class, but I'm still suspicious of lone men approaching me at night. Don't care if I look like an asshole, I'm not going to risk shit or continue to feel uncomfortable/fearful to prove to a stranger I'm not sexist.
95
A woman who crosses the street to avoid a potential rapist is a racist. A woman who doesn't cross the street to avoid an actual rapist was "asking for it". While it is interesting to see @92 that its mainly teens getting raped (how does that make it better?) it is also noteworthy that most of the rapists are 1) male and 2) won't ever be prosecuted. Its all a game of probabilities until somebody gets raped.
96
"White girl... Just shut up"
How about a list of obnoxious unprovoked comments Hispanic males make to white women with the headline "Hispanic boy... Just shut up"
Would that be okay?
How about a list of obnoxious unprovoked comments Hispanic males make to white women with the headline "Hispanic boy... Just shut up"
Would that be okay?
97
Oh, really, @92, is that how things actually are for women, statistically speaking? Thank you for all your helpful research.
I've been felt up on the bus by random men three times in the last two years, and recently had my crotch & boobs grabbed by a random drunk man on my way home from a club. But I guess I can EMPOWER myself with the KNOWLEDGE that at least STATISTICALLY speaking, he won't rape me, instead of, you know, empowering myself by using judgment and making an effort to avoid finding myself in a situation.
But thanks for accusing me of sexism! I see that you are far less sexist with your nonsensical assumptions that as a woman I must be waiting for a prince charming to protect me. Seriously, what are you talking about?
I've been felt up on the bus by random men three times in the last two years, and recently had my crotch & boobs grabbed by a random drunk man on my way home from a club. But I guess I can EMPOWER myself with the KNOWLEDGE that at least STATISTICALLY speaking, he won't rape me, instead of, you know, empowering myself by using judgment and making an effort to avoid finding myself in a situation.
But thanks for accusing me of sexism! I see that you are far less sexist with your nonsensical assumptions that as a woman I must be waiting for a prince charming to protect me. Seriously, what are you talking about?
98
@92: It's nice to know that when I was assaulted by strangers on the street that the occurrence was so statistically unlikely. Hey, maybe I just imagined the whole thing! And I'll be sure to take your genius advice and go get a big dog to take with me everywhere instead of just avoiding situations that seem sketchy to me. I feel so much better!
99
@93 I totally understand irrational fear being afraid of spiders myself. I don't go around stomping them all out because I understand they can't hurt me (at least around where I live). When I scream like a little girl when one surprises me I too am acting like an asshole.
Ping-ponging is irrational (as you admit) and a pretty much useless precaution. Skinny city streets are hardly an anti-attack moat and If the street is empty enough for a predator to attack, 15 extra steps won't matter.
"Consider also the severity.."
Well, I guess if I had to pick between emotional scarring and death I'd pick the scarring but you do make a point. I'm not arguing that rape, assault, or being eaten by a shark aren't as bad as we think they are. Of course they are, that's why they're so useful for brainwashing everyone into thinking that those dangers are imminent.
Having thousands of women (and men of small stature) walking around suspicious of each other and frightened of every shadow is not the way to actually get safer streets. All it does is justify the bigotry you see in the comments above and make advertisers and the government happy. A scared populace is a cowed-consumer populace.
Do what you need to do to get out of your house of course but don't fool yourself that you're being rational and not promoting bigotry for a false sense of security.
@95 "how does that make it better?"
Don't be intellectually dishonest.
"Its all a game of probabilities until somebody gets raped."
Just go pull the lever for Santorum already. They love your brand of fear-mongering.
Ping-ponging is irrational (as you admit) and a pretty much useless precaution. Skinny city streets are hardly an anti-attack moat and If the street is empty enough for a predator to attack, 15 extra steps won't matter.
"Consider also the severity.."
Well, I guess if I had to pick between emotional scarring and death I'd pick the scarring but you do make a point. I'm not arguing that rape, assault, or being eaten by a shark aren't as bad as we think they are. Of course they are, that's why they're so useful for brainwashing everyone into thinking that those dangers are imminent.
Having thousands of women (and men of small stature) walking around suspicious of each other and frightened of every shadow is not the way to actually get safer streets. All it does is justify the bigotry you see in the comments above and make advertisers and the government happy. A scared populace is a cowed-consumer populace.
Do what you need to do to get out of your house of course but don't fool yourself that you're being rational and not promoting bigotry for a false sense of security.
@95 "how does that make it better?"
Don't be intellectually dishonest.
"Its all a game of probabilities until somebody gets raped."
Just go pull the lever for Santorum already. They love your brand of fear-mongering.
100
@97 "is that how things actually are for women?"
You tell me, I'm not claiming to be a woman or speak for them.
Just my own opinion. Can you handle that?
"I've been felt up on the bus by random men three times in the last two years, and recently had my crotch & boobs grabbed by a random drunk man on my way home from a club."
That sucks and you don't need me to tell you that you have a right to be angry. I'd want to gut someone if they did that to my wife or daughter.
"empowering myself by using judgment and making an effort to avoid finding myself in a situation"
Apparently this tactic isn't really working is it?
Why do you think these sleazy men felt (quite literally) they had the right to do this and not expect any repercussions? This is not a blame-the-victim question but a how do we change this question?
I have my ideas but I'd rather hear yours to avoid the accusation of telling women what to do and think.
"waiting for a prince charming"
Oh come on, you don't recognize a bit of flame-bait when you read it it? It's to spark a reaction but also to say that the government and police (prince charming stand-ins if you will) aren't going to fix the situation. Police are only minutely preventative, they're mostly only useful for reacting to crimes.
You tell me, I'm not claiming to be a woman or speak for them.
Just my own opinion. Can you handle that?
"I've been felt up on the bus by random men three times in the last two years, and recently had my crotch & boobs grabbed by a random drunk man on my way home from a club."
That sucks and you don't need me to tell you that you have a right to be angry. I'd want to gut someone if they did that to my wife or daughter.
"empowering myself by using judgment and making an effort to avoid finding myself in a situation"
Apparently this tactic isn't really working is it?
Why do you think these sleazy men felt (quite literally) they had the right to do this and not expect any repercussions? This is not a blame-the-victim question but a how do we change this question?
I have my ideas but I'd rather hear yours to avoid the accusation of telling women what to do and think.
"waiting for a prince charming"
Oh come on, you don't recognize a bit of flame-bait when you read it it? It's to spark a reaction but also to say that the government and police (prince charming stand-ins if you will) aren't going to fix the situation. Police are only minutely preventative, they're mostly only useful for reacting to crimes.
101
#99, Oh look, a man telling women how they should be behaving despite having no actual experience being a woman. A man trying to tell us which of our fears are rational and irrational based on no knowledge of what we have experienced. How REPUBLICAN of him. Santorum, is that you?!!
God, you're fucking condescending and ridiculous.
God, you're fucking condescending and ridiculous.
102
I apologise for hijacking this racism thread with more on gender, but here goes;
@92
It's good to point these statistics to put these things into perspective, but I think your statistics fail to recognize the systemic nature of sexual harassment of women in public places, and the dual effect of occasional sexual assault/ rape and constant threat of it, which occurs whenever a man speaks or behaves in a way toward a woman on the street that lets her know that he sees her as a sexual thing and not a person to be respected and left alone.
That lack of boundaries that is demonstrated when a man makes misogynistic comments towards a woman on the street lets her know that he doesn't recognize boundaries. That is a threat that it could get worse if she hangs around. This is a campaign of terrorism on women, to make us live in fear. The men who shout misogynistic comments towards men rely on the occasional real rapist for their comments to make us jump.
I
@92
It's good to point these statistics to put these things into perspective, but I think your statistics fail to recognize the systemic nature of sexual harassment of women in public places, and the dual effect of occasional sexual assault/ rape and constant threat of it, which occurs whenever a man speaks or behaves in a way toward a woman on the street that lets her know that he sees her as a sexual thing and not a person to be respected and left alone.
That lack of boundaries that is demonstrated when a man makes misogynistic comments towards a woman on the street lets her know that he doesn't recognize boundaries. That is a threat that it could get worse if she hangs around. This is a campaign of terrorism on women, to make us live in fear. The men who shout misogynistic comments towards men rely on the occasional real rapist for their comments to make us jump.
I
103
Edit--- excuse the typo above. I meant "men who shout misogynistic comments towards women" not "towards men."
104
debug, I just think all your statistics undermine human nature and the psychology of fear. Stomping on all spiders equivalent would be me running around and yelling that I think all men are rapists, or assuming every one of them is. That is false. I also think you are blowing the issue out of proportion, saying that "we all walk around in fear of each other all the time." None of us said we all run from men all the time, or that we believe all people are out to get us.
When I feel fear, I either avoid what I'm afraid of or I face and fight it. When it comes to crossing men's paths when I am alone, I choose to avoid because of the small chance he may harm me. Maybe I'm a little sexist in thinking he might do that; that's okay with me. I'd rather be a little bigoted than a whole lotta raped. Is it so harmful to a man's ego that a woman protect herself because they're alone walking down a street? I think that is hardly an offense.
Also, would you blame a victim who was acquaintance raped because statistically, thats the most likely scenario for her to get raped? Why would she let a guy in her house who just moved into the neighborhood who she doesn't know *that* well or fully trust, right?
When I feel fear, I either avoid what I'm afraid of or I face and fight it. When it comes to crossing men's paths when I am alone, I choose to avoid because of the small chance he may harm me. Maybe I'm a little sexist in thinking he might do that; that's okay with me. I'd rather be a little bigoted than a whole lotta raped. Is it so harmful to a man's ego that a woman protect herself because they're alone walking down a street? I think that is hardly an offense.
Also, would you blame a victim who was acquaintance raped because statistically, thats the most likely scenario for her to get raped? Why would she let a guy in her house who just moved into the neighborhood who she doesn't know *that* well or fully trust, right?
105
@100: You really don't get it do you. You say
"empowering myself by using judgment and making an effort to avoid finding myself in a situation"
Apparently this tactic isn't really working is it?
That would be because women can't 100% avoid these situations unless they never go out or interact with anyone. Some guys just seem to think it's fine for them to grab your ass, boobs or whatever without any encouragement. I'm a trans lesbian and certainly do not want attention from guys thanks. Makes no difference. Some still think you are "asking for it" by being in their vicinity, presumably.
"empowering myself by using judgment and making an effort to avoid finding myself in a situation"
Apparently this tactic isn't really working is it?
That would be because women can't 100% avoid these situations unless they never go out or interact with anyone. Some guys just seem to think it's fine for them to grab your ass, boobs or whatever without any encouragement. I'm a trans lesbian and certainly do not want attention from guys thanks. Makes no difference. Some still think you are "asking for it" by being in their vicinity, presumably.
106
And you know, nevermind, I won't even concede that it is bigotry! I feel words like "racist/sexist/bigot/discriminate" are all really overused. If I said "all men are rapists," held a negative view of all men in general, thought they should all be confined because of their potential *to* rape, yes that would be bigotry.
What I'm doing is the slightest bit of self-preservation on the off chance that a man might harm me. I'm not denying them service at my coffee shop, trying to stop them from advancing in life, or treating men poorly. I'm no bigot, just trying to squelch the discomfort I feel when I'm alone near a strange man (and I do not aspire to "work through" said discomfort to ease anyone's hurt feelings).
What I'm doing is the slightest bit of self-preservation on the off chance that a man might harm me. I'm not denying them service at my coffee shop, trying to stop them from advancing in life, or treating men poorly. I'm no bigot, just trying to squelch the discomfort I feel when I'm alone near a strange man (and I do not aspire to "work through" said discomfort to ease anyone's hurt feelings).
107
@100 Um, because while I was being felt up on the bus or on the street I was ALSO across the street avoiding the situation? Again, man, you aren't even making any sense.
No, ironically when I was groped on the bus and street, I was actually doing what you suggest we do, assuming the stranger was a normal human being and not a woman-groping psycho. If I'd been on guard and changed seats or crossed the street when I saw the guy approaching, none of it probably would have happened. Your tactic's the one that failed me. Damn, if only I had the statistics to prove it.
No, ironically when I was groped on the bus and street, I was actually doing what you suggest we do, assuming the stranger was a normal human being and not a woman-groping psycho. If I'd been on guard and changed seats or crossed the street when I saw the guy approaching, none of it probably would have happened. Your tactic's the one that failed me. Damn, if only I had the statistics to prove it.
108
@99 Comparing an irrational fear of spiders to the fear of sexual assault is as insulting as it is idiotic.
So. Have you ever been raped by a spider? How many people die each year from spider rape... er... okay, spider bites? I would imagine it's under 50 out of the entire US population.
Yet one if five women will be sexually assaulted in her life time. By a man.
Yes. Stranger rape is somewhat more rare than acquaintance rape. But the chances that both rapists are men is 99.9% If we were advising women to open fire with a Glock in response to presence of man on dark street - THAT would be irrational.
Mitigating ones risk to a possible danger by simple avoidance of the situation is not irrational if the context presents categorical vulnerability.
A smaller woman crossing the street to avoid you, a larger stronger man, in the context of darkness and isolation is not irrational. It's risk assessment. Dark street. Alone. Strange man. Avoid.
Frankly ANY time somebody, male or female, perceives a another person as a threat in the context of "vulnerability" they have every right to remove themselves from that situation regardless of the racial or gender identity of that other person. Period. Anybody has a problem with that they can go fuck themselves.
So. Have you ever been raped by a spider? How many people die each year from spider rape... er... okay, spider bites? I would imagine it's under 50 out of the entire US population.
Yet one if five women will be sexually assaulted in her life time. By a man.
Yes. Stranger rape is somewhat more rare than acquaintance rape. But the chances that both rapists are men is 99.9% If we were advising women to open fire with a Glock in response to presence of man on dark street - THAT would be irrational.
Mitigating ones risk to a possible danger by simple avoidance of the situation is not irrational if the context presents categorical vulnerability.
A smaller woman crossing the street to avoid you, a larger stronger man, in the context of darkness and isolation is not irrational. It's risk assessment. Dark street. Alone. Strange man. Avoid.
Frankly ANY time somebody, male or female, perceives a another person as a threat in the context of "vulnerability" they have every right to remove themselves from that situation regardless of the racial or gender identity of that other person. Period. Anybody has a problem with that they can go fuck themselves.
109
Ninety (90) percent of the comments here pretty much prove the validity of Anonymous' rant. It's not enough to be casually racist, white Seattleites also have to hypocritically claim to be color blind and tolerant. When will Seattle wake up and realize that it has a race problem just like most other places in this country? The whole ultra-diverse MLK County image the City pushes doesn't really gel with economic, social, or racial reality here. This is a highly segregated urban area and it shows both in general attitudes and the overall defensiveness of the people who live here about it.
111
@92: Isn't a large part of self-defense minimizing risk? I think most self-defense classes will tell you to avoid strange men on a dark empty street. They don't say, "Sure, saunter on by, if he tries anything just use this judo chop! It'll definitely work no matter what!"
112
Seattle you have to be kidding me. I am a multi-cultural individual who grew up in DC with a hispanic dark skinned father, and a white jewish mother. I have been in the rural areas around our nation's capital and I have experienced the KKK, and other racist groups (ultra-conservatives included) first hand. The funny thing is, I am pale like my mom, so you know what? I get the completely unfiltered BS from a lot of white folk that think I am one of them. Most of it is just stupid tired rhetoric aimed toward cultures they don't understand or identify with. I haven't found any real conviction or alignment with this rhetoric here in Seattle.
Seattle, you aren't truly racist...hell, my opinion is that most in this city don't really know who they are, or what they are about. I've heard ridiculous racist-flavored sentiment, but I have also heard the elitist snobbery that Seattle is full of (and becoming famous for). Looking down on anyone who is different, and perceived to have less. Oh yes, a large percentage of those individuals looking down on others are white, and let's face it the pretentious attitudes have been at an epidemic high for the years I have been living here (15).
Truth be told, white women here often deserve a good slap, and the young white men deserve to be knocked the fuck out, if only to show them what life can really be about when they aren't roving around in their little packs looking to "whoop someone's ass." There aren't really any hard knocks in this relatively new city of self-indulgent, self-absorbed people.
The reality is that Seattle is full of wanna-bes. It is full of people who are trying things on, but haven't found any true identity of their own. A place full of sychophants, scensters, trendites, and booktards.
As to IA's rant...You should have pumped up toward her like you were gonna steal her in the mouth. Cemented in her mind what she thought you were, and perhaps teased a squirt of piss out of her stupid lil ass.
A lot of you here went on the bent of the example IA gave of women crossing the street, just in case. In parts of DC and Baltimore you cross the street and lift your feet whether you are male or female, otherwise you get stripped of your valuables, including your pride, and sometimes your life. Seattle is truly one of the more benign "big cities" in America.
Yes there is danger here. There are menaces. We see gang activity increasing. We see gun violence increasing. We see more theft, and more violence. To be honest though, I embrace the experience. It is just what Seattle needs. Perhaps Seattle will grow the fuck up, as well as it's inhabitants. Let's stop being so fucking naive!
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Seattle, you aren't truly racist...hell, my opinion is that most in this city don't really know who they are, or what they are about. I've heard ridiculous racist-flavored sentiment, but I have also heard the elitist snobbery that Seattle is full of (and becoming famous for). Looking down on anyone who is different, and perceived to have less. Oh yes, a large percentage of those individuals looking down on others are white, and let's face it the pretentious attitudes have been at an epidemic high for the years I have been living here (15).
Truth be told, white women here often deserve a good slap, and the young white men deserve to be knocked the fuck out, if only to show them what life can really be about when they aren't roving around in their little packs looking to "whoop someone's ass." There aren't really any hard knocks in this relatively new city of self-indulgent, self-absorbed people.
The reality is that Seattle is full of wanna-bes. It is full of people who are trying things on, but haven't found any true identity of their own. A place full of sychophants, scensters, trendites, and booktards.
As to IA's rant...You should have pumped up toward her like you were gonna steal her in the mouth. Cemented in her mind what she thought you were, and perhaps teased a squirt of piss out of her stupid lil ass.
A lot of you here went on the bent of the example IA gave of women crossing the street, just in case. In parts of DC and Baltimore you cross the street and lift your feet whether you are male or female, otherwise you get stripped of your valuables, including your pride, and sometimes your life. Seattle is truly one of the more benign "big cities" in America.
Yes there is danger here. There are menaces. We see gang activity increasing. We see gun violence increasing. We see more theft, and more violence. To be honest though, I embrace the experience. It is just what Seattle needs. Perhaps Seattle will grow the fuck up, as well as it's inhabitants. Let's stop being so fucking naive!
113
@102
Thank you. You've probably given my comment more respect than it deserved (my fault for being reacting to some of the nonsense comments prior to my original).
Has the situation changed at all in 20 years? I don't think so but again, I'll defer to women's perspective.
Virginia, mtnlion, Belle, tkc, Kara C, and "You Are A Patronizing Jerk" (LOL, I love it) all make good points and rightfully take the piss out of me because I was being confrontational but none of them even attempt broach my main question:
Why is this allowed to happen? Why don't people understand that whatever is being done over the decades isn't working at all?
What they've taught me is that people are settled on, if not happy with, the status-quo: "shit happens, what can you do?". Everybody is in this numbness state where wondering why there aren't proactive steps to really change things is quickly shouted down.
Why should a woman have to cross the street or be frightened of being grabbed on the bus? For that matter why should I as a grown man feel afraid of the group of kids dressed in their gangsta-gear?
Is pragmatic bigotry the best we can do as Americans?
Apologies to any of the women who felt I was telling them what to do (as if some anonymous person actually could have that power) but your responses don't make me that hopeful for things being any different when my daughter grows up and leaves the house.
Thank you. You've probably given my comment more respect than it deserved (my fault for being reacting to some of the nonsense comments prior to my original).
Has the situation changed at all in 20 years? I don't think so but again, I'll defer to women's perspective.
Virginia, mtnlion, Belle, tkc, Kara C, and "You Are A Patronizing Jerk" (LOL, I love it) all make good points and rightfully take the piss out of me because I was being confrontational but none of them even attempt broach my main question:
Why is this allowed to happen? Why don't people understand that whatever is being done over the decades isn't working at all?
What they've taught me is that people are settled on, if not happy with, the status-quo: "shit happens, what can you do?". Everybody is in this numbness state where wondering why there aren't proactive steps to really change things is quickly shouted down.
Why should a woman have to cross the street or be frightened of being grabbed on the bus? For that matter why should I as a grown man feel afraid of the group of kids dressed in their gangsta-gear?
Is pragmatic bigotry the best we can do as Americans?
Apologies to any of the women who felt I was telling them what to do (as if some anonymous person actually could have that power) but your responses don't make me that hopeful for things being any different when my daughter grows up and leaves the house.
114
She shouldn't *have* to cross the street, but she does, because some men are rapists and rape is really terrible. And we understand that we cannot change that and we want to preserve our happiness and safety. I just don't get how you are making this into a big collective paranoia theory.
So what do you suggest, really?
So what do you suggest, really?
115
"I have experienced the KKK, and other racist groups (ultra-conservatives included) first hand."
You mean like Nation of Islam, a black hate group that just spoke at UC Berkely a few days ago. Spoke to a full house and got a standing ovation and $1500 of taxpayer money for spewing anti Asian and anti Jewish hate speech.
"I've heard ridiculous racist-flavored sentiment"
So have I, and most of it was coming from other minorities.
"Truth be told, white women here often deserve a good slap, and the young white men deserve to be knocked the fuck out"
Yes, unlike black men and women here never do anything to make one want to kick the shit out of them right? Unless you consider about 5 dozen random attacks on strangers- some of them elderly, in wheelchairs, pregnant, blind- to be no big deal.
You mean like Nation of Islam, a black hate group that just spoke at UC Berkely a few days ago. Spoke to a full house and got a standing ovation and $1500 of taxpayer money for spewing anti Asian and anti Jewish hate speech.
"I've heard ridiculous racist-flavored sentiment"
So have I, and most of it was coming from other minorities.
"Truth be told, white women here often deserve a good slap, and the young white men deserve to be knocked the fuck out"
Yes, unlike black men and women here never do anything to make one want to kick the shit out of them right? Unless you consider about 5 dozen random attacks on strangers- some of them elderly, in wheelchairs, pregnant, blind- to be no big deal.
116
@113, First you need to look up the definition of the word "Bigot." I think you'll see that crossing the street to avoid a sketchy looking person doesn't automatically qualify one as a bigot.
Second, I didn't answer your main question because I find it so insulting and offensive that I don't even know where to start. You state you don't mean to sound like you are blaming the victim, but why didn't you ask the Latino writer of this post what he could do to change racism or why he thought people felt like they had a right to be racist? Because it's condescending as shit and implies that they are somehow doing something wrong?
I mean, come on. What difference would it even make if I were to say what causes some guys to think they have a right to do this? Like @114 said, what are you even suggesting?
Second, I didn't answer your main question because I find it so insulting and offensive that I don't even know where to start. You state you don't mean to sound like you are blaming the victim, but why didn't you ask the Latino writer of this post what he could do to change racism or why he thought people felt like they had a right to be racist? Because it's condescending as shit and implies that they are somehow doing something wrong?
I mean, come on. What difference would it even make if I were to say what causes some guys to think they have a right to do this? Like @114 said, what are you even suggesting?
117
This is interesting. As a woman, I have crossed the street multiple times to avoid men. As an HONEST woman, I've crossed the street more often when I see men of color or men wearing "hip hop/urban street geer" clothes than those wearing other styles of clothing.
And as a woman of COLOR in Seattle who has lived in LA, the deep south and here for over five years:
This city is so unconscious of it's often BLATANT and SYSTEMIC racism, sometimes it's enough to make me scream. How it's schools are in effect, completely class segregated and largely race segregated (even within schools; I should know I work with youth) From the regular occurrences of being called "Nigger" at bus-stops while I look at folks with their Obama buttons and simpering smiles shift their feet uncomfortably and turn away; the drunk white women who, on a WEEKLY basis molest my boyfriends' room-mate, calling his dreadlocks "hoodcute", "like Ludacris (who does not have dreads) as he tries to squirm away on Capital Hill. My boyfriend has been asked point-blank to rap for tipsy hipster boys in Ballard (he does not rap), or hears "you're in LAW school?!" incredulously more times than he can count. My students have been called "terrorist" on your busses for having their hair covered by GROWN ASS MEN as the drivers and other passengers watch them cry and say nothing MORE TIMES THAN I CARE TO COUNT.
Or how about the time my student was about to leave a drugstore with candy in his hand, realized BEFORE HE LEFT and turned around to pay for it with NO INTERVENTION by the staff. As he waited in line, apparently someone had called the police on him, and he was held ON THE GROUND, HANDCUFFED AND TAKEN TO JOUVIE as he protested his innocence.
I love Seattle so much. This city and it's citizens lack SO MUCH SELF AWARENESS as a whole.
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And as a woman of COLOR in Seattle who has lived in LA, the deep south and here for over five years:
This city is so unconscious of it's often BLATANT and SYSTEMIC racism, sometimes it's enough to make me scream. How it's schools are in effect, completely class segregated and largely race segregated (even within schools; I should know I work with youth) From the regular occurrences of being called "Nigger" at bus-stops while I look at folks with their Obama buttons and simpering smiles shift their feet uncomfortably and turn away; the drunk white women who, on a WEEKLY basis molest my boyfriends' room-mate, calling his dreadlocks "hoodcute", "like Ludacris (who does not have dreads) as he tries to squirm away on Capital Hill. My boyfriend has been asked point-blank to rap for tipsy hipster boys in Ballard (he does not rap), or hears "you're in LAW school?!" incredulously more times than he can count. My students have been called "terrorist" on your busses for having their hair covered by GROWN ASS MEN as the drivers and other passengers watch them cry and say nothing MORE TIMES THAN I CARE TO COUNT.
Or how about the time my student was about to leave a drugstore with candy in his hand, realized BEFORE HE LEFT and turned around to pay for it with NO INTERVENTION by the staff. As he waited in line, apparently someone had called the police on him, and he was held ON THE GROUND, HANDCUFFED AND TAKEN TO JOUVIE as he protested his innocence.
I love Seattle so much. This city and it's citizens lack SO MUCH SELF AWARENESS as a whole.
119
The reality is that Seattle is full of wanna-bes. It is full of people who are trying things on, but haven't found any true identity of their own. A place full of sychophants, scensters, trendites, and booktards.
Yep, there's no heaven on earth. If you think it's bad here, try Portland.
Yep, there's no heaven on earth. If you think it's bad here, try Portland.
120
As a multiracial person, it always pains and surprises me to see just how much progress a lot of people in liberal areas like Seattle still need to make in the area of understanding privilege - whether it's sexuality, gender, age, ethnicity, class, etc.
There's often a lot of miscommunication and defensiveness that prevents the dialogue from ever really making any headway. Ultimately, the easiest solutions towards understanding the different realities people live would just be to get out there and befriend a variety of people. And that's honestly the biggest bummer when I see a ham-fisted sociological discussion, because it makes evident how so many seem to stick to their own.
There's often a lot of miscommunication and defensiveness that prevents the dialogue from ever really making any headway. Ultimately, the easiest solutions towards understanding the different realities people live would just be to get out there and befriend a variety of people. And that's honestly the biggest bummer when I see a ham-fisted sociological discussion, because it makes evident how so many seem to stick to their own.
121
I don't get where everyone is getting their assumption that I, Anon is male. I'm about 90% sure this is a queer WOMAN of color, which kind of makes this whole sexism discussion mostly irrelevant. (Not to mention that sexism, like racism, can only be exercised from a position of systemic power, meaning that "sexism" of women against men was irrelevant to begin with).
- queer white immigrant woman
- queer white immigrant woman
122
I'm a Black guy. I was born and raised in Texas. I moved to Seattle to attend grad school at UW. I have been called a nigger once in my entire life and that happened in good ol Seattle.
123
@120
" Ultimately, the easiest solutions towards understanding the different realities people live would just be to get out there and befriend a variety of people." ".... because it makes evident how so many seem to stick to their own."
The fact that Seattle is known both for its progressiveness (LGBT friendly) and its racism at the same time is not necessarily a coincidence. Here's my theory, take it or leave it;
Minorities often flock to bigger cities so that they can find their own people and take a break from the rest of society by being insular in their group and reveling in the joy of not being a minority for once.
These minorities sometimes arrive in big cities and say to themselves;
" I made it, I'm home, I don't have to deal with all the people that hated on me in the homogenous little town I grew up in"
and so they clump together with their own people, and when it comes to interacting with people from outside their group, they can be rude and intolerant, because they feel like it's finally their turn to be rude and intolerant.
The hold an identify of a victim, because they've been persecuted for their difference, and they feel like they've been silent too long on what they dislike about the other group known as "every body else" and where the behavior of someone from the group known as "every body else" is offensive to them, they criticize it with a sense of entitlement that they draw from their own minority victimhood.
(and by they, I mean "I.)"
" Ultimately, the easiest solutions towards understanding the different realities people live would just be to get out there and befriend a variety of people." ".... because it makes evident how so many seem to stick to their own."
The fact that Seattle is known both for its progressiveness (LGBT friendly) and its racism at the same time is not necessarily a coincidence. Here's my theory, take it or leave it;
Minorities often flock to bigger cities so that they can find their own people and take a break from the rest of society by being insular in their group and reveling in the joy of not being a minority for once.
These minorities sometimes arrive in big cities and say to themselves;
" I made it, I'm home, I don't have to deal with all the people that hated on me in the homogenous little town I grew up in"
and so they clump together with their own people, and when it comes to interacting with people from outside their group, they can be rude and intolerant, because they feel like it's finally their turn to be rude and intolerant.
The hold an identify of a victim, because they've been persecuted for their difference, and they feel like they've been silent too long on what they dislike about the other group known as "every body else" and where the behavior of someone from the group known as "every body else" is offensive to them, they criticize it with a sense of entitlement that they draw from their own minority victimhood.
(and by they, I mean "I.)"
124
@121 "Not to mention that sexism, like racism, can only be exercised from a position of systemic power, meaning that "sexism" of women against men was irrelevant to begin with"
I'll just parse your 'systemic' to mean any micro-community: school, gathering, club, social group, workplace where one group dominates, if even temporarily, over another.
Otherwise it just sounds like a convenient excuse to never have to examine your own biases and misjudgment (even against those who you decide to blame for keeping you down).
I'll just parse your 'systemic' to mean any micro-community: school, gathering, club, social group, workplace where one group dominates, if even temporarily, over another.
Otherwise it just sounds like a convenient excuse to never have to examine your own biases and misjudgment (even against those who you decide to blame for keeping you down).
125
@116 "I think you'll see that crossing the street to avoid a sketchy looking person doesn't automatically qualify one as a bigot."
Not automatically, no, but you're using weasel-words to make your argument. What is this fuzzy thing called sketchy?
If I'm the type that thinks that brown people are the cause of most street crime (facts/stats have been argued irrelevant - what I perceive trumps any truth) am I free from the bigotry charge if cross the street, pull my kids in closer, or lock the doors when someone with more than a tan walks by, you know, just in case.
@121 would say that, yes, I'm a bigot because I profit from the system. I'd argue back that "the street" is an entirely different system. I might be "the man" with my beige-skin, education, and bank account but on the street I'd probably be some tougher guy's bitch.
"Because it's condescending as shit and implies that they are somehow doing something wrong?"
What you're missing here is the difference between what one person can do and a group. I don't expect one woman to change her walking habits in isolation, that's a lot to ask, but possibly change the way she thinks about that habit.
It took a Civil Rights Movement to actually increase the amount of civil rights minority-Americans had. Eventually a group of people had enough, worked hard, and made a lot of personal sacrifices, to make a major step forward. The point being that if you're perceiving yourself as a victim of society it is your team's job to fight to change it. If that's condescending then all progress in human history is condescending.
When mtnlion says she's been publicly groped 4-5 times in the last year or so I find that pretty infuriating. So where's the collective anger that would spark a movement? She seems to have a tired, beaten-down "shit happens, what can you do?" point of view.
Can't we, in a low stakes forum chat, even blue sky some possible answers? Is idealism and vision on this issue completely dead?
Collectively there are more women voters alive than male voters and a large percentage of male voters would also get behind an organized movement to reduce violence.
Up until the recent Komen Planned Parenthood debacle, the pink ribbon thing crossed social, political, and gender lines (the NFL even had the athletes wearing pink shoes) to gather up a shit load of cash for an almost entirely female health issue.
Something like that should work for other ideas as long as it didn't split the vote along political or religious lines.
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Not automatically, no, but you're using weasel-words to make your argument. What is this fuzzy thing called sketchy?
If I'm the type that thinks that brown people are the cause of most street crime (facts/stats have been argued irrelevant - what I perceive trumps any truth) am I free from the bigotry charge if cross the street, pull my kids in closer, or lock the doors when someone with more than a tan walks by, you know, just in case.
@121 would say that, yes, I'm a bigot because I profit from the system. I'd argue back that "the street" is an entirely different system. I might be "the man" with my beige-skin, education, and bank account but on the street I'd probably be some tougher guy's bitch.
"Because it's condescending as shit and implies that they are somehow doing something wrong?"
What you're missing here is the difference between what one person can do and a group. I don't expect one woman to change her walking habits in isolation, that's a lot to ask, but possibly change the way she thinks about that habit.
It took a Civil Rights Movement to actually increase the amount of civil rights minority-Americans had. Eventually a group of people had enough, worked hard, and made a lot of personal sacrifices, to make a major step forward. The point being that if you're perceiving yourself as a victim of society it is your team's job to fight to change it. If that's condescending then all progress in human history is condescending.
When mtnlion says she's been publicly groped 4-5 times in the last year or so I find that pretty infuriating. So where's the collective anger that would spark a movement? She seems to have a tired, beaten-down "shit happens, what can you do?" point of view.
Can't we, in a low stakes forum chat, even blue sky some possible answers? Is idealism and vision on this issue completely dead?
Collectively there are more women voters alive than male voters and a large percentage of male voters would also get behind an organized movement to reduce violence.
Up until the recent Komen Planned Parenthood debacle, the pink ribbon thing crossed social, political, and gender lines (the NFL even had the athletes wearing pink shoes) to gather up a shit load of cash for an almost entirely female health issue.
Something like that should work for other ideas as long as it didn't split the vote along political or religious lines.
127
when all y'all agree to let folks in Dc have representation in making our laws, come back and talk about racism then.
this is de jure discrimination. it's against DC residents. half are black. of the rest, half are POC easily. they don't get a senator or congressman. you in seattle? you help make laws for them because your senators and congressmen rule over them.
y'all love debating racism ad nauseum, yet don't do a thing for this de jure discirmination and de facto race based discrimination.
there are also 4 million puerto ricans you rule over, they don't have a voting rep in senate or house and don'thave electoral college votes. there are half a million in the pacific islands we rule over, similarly. okay that's let's see.....
six million people deprived of equal rights. under your laws. laws they didn't make, and you did make.
when you fix that? then we'll work on the other aspects of REAL racism like the jim crow of drug laws.
crossing the street in front of you is racist? um, dude, stop whining. if you are latino why not get to work on the colonization of puerto rico, you know the legal deprivation of voting rights to 3. 7 million people. stop thinking about yourself only. then get on the fact we all tolerate torture if you want to end human rights violations. yessir, violating international law here by not prosecuting the bush cheny torturers. then we got an army? it makes people crazy enough to go murder 16 afghanis. maybe worry about that instead of worrying about what some drunk chick is feeling when she's yelling yo at you?
this is de jure discrimination. it's against DC residents. half are black. of the rest, half are POC easily. they don't get a senator or congressman. you in seattle? you help make laws for them because your senators and congressmen rule over them.
y'all love debating racism ad nauseum, yet don't do a thing for this de jure discirmination and de facto race based discrimination.
there are also 4 million puerto ricans you rule over, they don't have a voting rep in senate or house and don'thave electoral college votes. there are half a million in the pacific islands we rule over, similarly. okay that's let's see.....
six million people deprived of equal rights. under your laws. laws they didn't make, and you did make.
when you fix that? then we'll work on the other aspects of REAL racism like the jim crow of drug laws.
crossing the street in front of you is racist? um, dude, stop whining. if you are latino why not get to work on the colonization of puerto rico, you know the legal deprivation of voting rights to 3. 7 million people. stop thinking about yourself only. then get on the fact we all tolerate torture if you want to end human rights violations. yessir, violating international law here by not prosecuting the bush cheny torturers. then we got an army? it makes people crazy enough to go murder 16 afghanis. maybe worry about that instead of worrying about what some drunk chick is feeling when she's yelling yo at you?
128
Oh, debug, that wasn't me. I was never publicly groped, but that sounds real shitty. I am not one of the women who is talking about how bad women have it; I find it to be useless and self-victimizing. I also did not mean for this thread to get overwhelmed with rape threat chatter; it originally began as a way to inform the writer that crossing the street is not in an of itself a racist act (if anything, sexist, though I personally disagree with that phrase as well).
I agree with you that it would be nice for us to do something other than compulsory avoidance of assault. I believe it would take an extreme degree of focused, collective, impassioned enlightenment for the world to advance to a place in time where women's bodies are not regarded as objects by many people, where people's skin color had no bearing over how others treated them, and we regarded everyone with a similar modicum of respect. Call it cynical, but I have found more happiness in focusing on what I can do to make my life meaningful than in years of hoping other people would change. But if you find a realistic answer, debug, I would be very happy to hear it.
I agree with you that it would be nice for us to do something other than compulsory avoidance of assault. I believe it would take an extreme degree of focused, collective, impassioned enlightenment for the world to advance to a place in time where women's bodies are not regarded as objects by many people, where people's skin color had no bearing over how others treated them, and we regarded everyone with a similar modicum of respect. Call it cynical, but I have found more happiness in focusing on what I can do to make my life meaningful than in years of hoping other people would change. But if you find a realistic answer, debug, I would be very happy to hear it.
129
@ 123, 120 here.
I believe you are projecting your own experience as a norm and not accounting for a wide variety of people who come from different economic strata, living circumstances, backgrounds, etc.
My own for instance - my family traveled to a new place around the world roughly once a year while I grew up. I have to tick a few boxes when a standardized test asks for my ethnicity. My mother is culturally American though - and I've inherited her West Coast accent. We come from a family of scientists, engineers, writers, musicians, painters, and dancers. We highly value self-education and the respect of others necessary for a civil society.
But our circumstances are different in a lot of ways - some of us are multiracial, some of us are American, some of us are formally educated, some of us are gay, some of us are religious, some of us are poor - and I think it is true, from knowing my own family, that we all experience different advantages and disadvantages. Some of them are circumstantial, some of them are merited, but there is a component which I believe is unnecessarily brought upon them, and I earnestly think that an educated and moral populace would find it ethical to relieve anyone of such a burden to a reasonable degree.
I believe you are projecting your own experience as a norm and not accounting for a wide variety of people who come from different economic strata, living circumstances, backgrounds, etc.
My own for instance - my family traveled to a new place around the world roughly once a year while I grew up. I have to tick a few boxes when a standardized test asks for my ethnicity. My mother is culturally American though - and I've inherited her West Coast accent. We come from a family of scientists, engineers, writers, musicians, painters, and dancers. We highly value self-education and the respect of others necessary for a civil society.
But our circumstances are different in a lot of ways - some of us are multiracial, some of us are American, some of us are formally educated, some of us are gay, some of us are religious, some of us are poor - and I think it is true, from knowing my own family, that we all experience different advantages and disadvantages. Some of them are circumstantial, some of them are merited, but there is a component which I believe is unnecessarily brought upon them, and I earnestly think that an educated and moral populace would find it ethical to relieve anyone of such a burden to a reasonable degree.
130
@128 Crap, apologies mtnlion, thought I double checked that it was you who said that but looking back it was virginia mason. My apologies to her too for messing up her story. Posting at 3AM after St. Pats beers and a large Shamrock Shake may have had something to do with it.
132
Isn't anyone going to point out that 6 out of 1000 isn't .006%?
*sigh*
However, the point is well-made that the chances of being raped by a stranger are much smaller than by an acquaintance, etc. And I'm a big fan of statistics. Still, it's a bit like saying the majority of car accidents happen within a mile of the driver's home. True, and yet hard to adjust for: if you're going to go anywhere, you have to leave from your house. That doesn't mean you should suddenly be less careful driving once you get a mile away. Those miles are just as dangerous, it's just that you drive them less frequently.
At least you *can* cross the street to avoid a stranger, if you so wish--it's hard to avoid family/acquaintances--by definition, they're gonna be around more.
*sigh*
However, the point is well-made that the chances of being raped by a stranger are much smaller than by an acquaintance, etc. And I'm a big fan of statistics. Still, it's a bit like saying the majority of car accidents happen within a mile of the driver's home. True, and yet hard to adjust for: if you're going to go anywhere, you have to leave from your house. That doesn't mean you should suddenly be less careful driving once you get a mile away. Those miles are just as dangerous, it's just that you drive them less frequently.
At least you *can* cross the street to avoid a stranger, if you so wish--it's hard to avoid family/acquaintances--by definition, they're gonna be around more.
133
All I can say to all of you crybaby POC who think racism is a problem in Seattle is PLEASE MOVE! we are sick of listening to you whine about some percieved slight you got walking down the sidewalk. Booo Fuggin Hooo, I have POC friends who are doctors and lawyers and I bet they are scared of or annoyed with your stupid asses too.
134
This is interesting. As a woman, I have crossed the street multiple times to avoid men. As an HONEST woman, I've crossed the street more often when I see men of color or men wearing "hip hop/urban street geer" clothes than those wearing other styles of clothing.
And as a woman of COLOR in Seattle who has lived in LA, the deep south and here for over five years:
This city is so unconscious of it's often BLATANT and SYSTEMIC racism, sometimes it's enough to make me scream. How it's schools are in effect, completely class segregated and largely race segregated (even within schools; I should know I work with youth) From the regular occurrences of being called "Nigger" at bus-stops while I look at folks with their Obama buttons and simpering smiles shift their feet uncomfortably and turn away; the drunk white women who, on a WEEKLY basis molest my boyfriends' room-mate, calling his dreadlocks "hoodcute", "like Ludacris (who does not have dreads) as he tries to squirm away on Capital Hill. My boyfriend has been asked point-blank to rap for tipsy hipster boys in Ballard (he does not rap), or hears "you're in LAW school?!" incredulously more times than he can count. My students have been called "terrorist" on your busses for having their hair covered by GROWN ASS MEN as the drivers and other passengers watch them cry and say nothing MORE TIMES THAN I CARE TO COUNT.
Or how about the time my student was about to leave a drugstore with candy in his hand, realized BEFORE HE LEFT and turned around to pay for it with NO INTERVENTION by the staff. As he waited in line, apparently someone had called the police on him, and he was held ON THE GROUND, HANDCUFFED AND TAKEN TO JOUVIE as he protested his innocence.
I love Seattle so much. This city and it's citizens lack SO MUCH SELF AWARENESS as a whole.
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And as a woman of COLOR in Seattle who has lived in LA, the deep south and here for over five years:
This city is so unconscious of it's often BLATANT and SYSTEMIC racism, sometimes it's enough to make me scream. How it's schools are in effect, completely class segregated and largely race segregated (even within schools; I should know I work with youth) From the regular occurrences of being called "Nigger" at bus-stops while I look at folks with their Obama buttons and simpering smiles shift their feet uncomfortably and turn away; the drunk white women who, on a WEEKLY basis molest my boyfriends' room-mate, calling his dreadlocks "hoodcute", "like Ludacris (who does not have dreads) as he tries to squirm away on Capital Hill. My boyfriend has been asked point-blank to rap for tipsy hipster boys in Ballard (he does not rap), or hears "you're in LAW school?!" incredulously more times than he can count. My students have been called "terrorist" on your busses for having their hair covered by GROWN ASS MEN as the drivers and other passengers watch them cry and say nothing MORE TIMES THAN I CARE TO COUNT.
Or how about the time my student was about to leave a drugstore with candy in his hand, realized BEFORE HE LEFT and turned around to pay for it with NO INTERVENTION by the staff. As he waited in line, apparently someone had called the police on him, and he was held ON THE GROUND, HANDCUFFED AND TAKEN TO JOUVIE as he protested his innocence.
I love Seattle so much. This city and it's citizens lack SO MUCH SELF AWARENESS as a whole.
135
Well, @125, as you can see from @128's comments, it is difficult for women to organize as a group against sexism these days because in general, women can't even agree to classify the stuff that happens to them as being victimizing. Acting like a victim even though you were in fact victimized is discouraged and seen as your own personal weakness. If we aren't viewing ourselves as victims, what do we have to be angry about? We don't consider sexual harrassment a hate crime. Hell, a lot of women I know even consider being cat-called flattering and no big deal.
When you are a victim of robbery, you generally take extra steps afterwards to keep yourself from being robbed again. When women are victims of harrassment or assault, they do the same. I can start all the neighborhood watch groups I want, but robberies are still going to occur, and I'm still going to lock the door from now on and maybe get an alarm system installed. Taking reasonable steps to protect yourself does not mean you are now living the life of a sad, victimized person.
As for your other point: You may think of the word "sketchy" as a weasel term, but that is based on your own assumptions of what constitutes sketchy and I can't help that. Of the four guys who groped me, three were white. I live on Capitol Hill and have also lived in Ravenna, and most of the sketchy guys I cross the street to avoid are white druggie types. No one accuses me of profiling or being unfair to these guys.
Maybe you assume that because I am a white girl in Seattle, I find black people scary or exotic? I mean, that's the impression I'm getting from you and some of the other commenters here. I'm an Italian American from Rhode Island who grew up in a lower middle class mixed race neighborhood with lots of black and hispanic friends and classmates. My dad taught in an inner city middle school where most of the kids were minority students, and he was a huge advocate for these kids and taught me so much. My first job was in a bakery in a mostly black neighborhood. I was even the only white girl who attended an all-black church because my friend was a member. I know it is ridiculous to say, "I can't be racist, look I have black friends," and I'm not claiming that at all. But I bring this up to point out that I am far from some sheltered white woman who hasn't thought about this stuff and sees a black person and thinks "sketchy."
I also don't pretend to have blinders on when I see a person who looks sketchy who happens to be black. My friend Linda was black and I used to drive her to class every day. She lived in a poor, mostly black neighborhood and told me to sit in the car with the windows rolled up and not to make eye contact with anyone. She stated that her own neighborhood was scary and crime ridden. There was actually a mandatory curfew imposed because of all the violence in the neighborhood. Was I supposed to just pretend she was being silly and ignore her advice so as not to seem bigoted? No, because I'm not an idiot. I didn't stop picking her up, I just took some extra steps to protect myself.
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When you are a victim of robbery, you generally take extra steps afterwards to keep yourself from being robbed again. When women are victims of harrassment or assault, they do the same. I can start all the neighborhood watch groups I want, but robberies are still going to occur, and I'm still going to lock the door from now on and maybe get an alarm system installed. Taking reasonable steps to protect yourself does not mean you are now living the life of a sad, victimized person.
As for your other point: You may think of the word "sketchy" as a weasel term, but that is based on your own assumptions of what constitutes sketchy and I can't help that. Of the four guys who groped me, three were white. I live on Capitol Hill and have also lived in Ravenna, and most of the sketchy guys I cross the street to avoid are white druggie types. No one accuses me of profiling or being unfair to these guys.
Maybe you assume that because I am a white girl in Seattle, I find black people scary or exotic? I mean, that's the impression I'm getting from you and some of the other commenters here. I'm an Italian American from Rhode Island who grew up in a lower middle class mixed race neighborhood with lots of black and hispanic friends and classmates. My dad taught in an inner city middle school where most of the kids were minority students, and he was a huge advocate for these kids and taught me so much. My first job was in a bakery in a mostly black neighborhood. I was even the only white girl who attended an all-black church because my friend was a member. I know it is ridiculous to say, "I can't be racist, look I have black friends," and I'm not claiming that at all. But I bring this up to point out that I am far from some sheltered white woman who hasn't thought about this stuff and sees a black person and thinks "sketchy."
I also don't pretend to have blinders on when I see a person who looks sketchy who happens to be black. My friend Linda was black and I used to drive her to class every day. She lived in a poor, mostly black neighborhood and told me to sit in the car with the windows rolled up and not to make eye contact with anyone. She stated that her own neighborhood was scary and crime ridden. There was actually a mandatory curfew imposed because of all the violence in the neighborhood. Was I supposed to just pretend she was being silly and ignore her advice so as not to seem bigoted? No, because I'm not an idiot. I didn't stop picking her up, I just took some extra steps to protect myself.
136
"If you can't escape racism at a University in a liberal city like Seattle, where are you gonna go? I hear Alabama's nice this time of year."
Herp derp.
A quick look at a map will tell you that Vancouver's way closer and like 1 billion times more liberal.
Herp derp.
A quick look at a map will tell you that Vancouver's way closer and like 1 billion times more liberal.
137
never mind that we have the most racially diverse zip code in the country....
Seattle is diverse, just not in the way that East Coast or Southern cities are diverse. There were different immigration patterns here.
Seriously dude, I've seen way way way more racism in much more "diverse" cities than Seattle. I feel that most of our residents actually get it, and just treat everyone like people.
This girl was a moron, and guess what, probably a transplant. I.E. not an accurate respresentation of Seattle or Seattleites.
Seattle is diverse, just not in the way that East Coast or Southern cities are diverse. There were different immigration patterns here.
Seriously dude, I've seen way way way more racism in much more "diverse" cities than Seattle. I feel that most of our residents actually get it, and just treat everyone like people.
This girl was a moron, and guess what, probably a transplant. I.E. not an accurate respresentation of Seattle or Seattleites.
139
You know what's interesting about the justification of crossing the street because he's a guy (who happens to be wearing things that white people take as being threatening because they're associated with scary minority cultures)...according to the Department of Justice the rate of rape reported to police over past two decades has dropped by over seventy percent. This, with all of the acceptability of reporting it. Perhaps your paranoia is getting the best of you, especially considering that rape is much more common among acquaintances than among total strangers.
140
@139, we've been over that argument already. Check the thread. Yes, our paranoia IS getting the best of us when considering the odds. None of us mind.
141
I should clarify that. It's not reported to the Department of Justice, but that the Department of Justice's "National Crime Victimization Survey" recorded.
The link to the data about rape is here http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/… it refers to completed rapes as opposed to attempted.
Although it's hard to get people to talk about sensitive subjects, as they say, the rate based on the sample has dropped from 2.2% in 1991 to.5% in 2008. Even considering that these figures are artificially low, the drop suggests that there indeed has been a big decrease, not a leveling out or an increase, in the rate during this period.
The link to the data about rape is here http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/glance/… it refers to completed rapes as opposed to attempted.
Although it's hard to get people to talk about sensitive subjects, as they say, the rate based on the sample has dropped from 2.2% in 1991 to.5% in 2008. Even considering that these figures are artificially low, the drop suggests that there indeed has been a big decrease, not a leveling out or an increase, in the rate during this period.
142
Anon, don't let the people you've interacted with ruin your perception. How many white people have you met who haven't crossed the street, or said ugly things to you?
I've seen college students where I live (Philly) do similarly horrible, racist pranks. We had a student editorial about a year ago when a person of color, outraged like you, said that no people of color should attend my school. But, most of the white people I know aren't like that. Don't take their ignorance personally, and try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm a (white) woman and at night I usually ALWAYS cross the street when I'm going to cross someone's path, no matter what their color. I don't want to get mugged or assaulted.
If you want white people to change in your area, you, as an enlightened person, especially as a POC, have to be the one to turn your cheek and reach out to educate them. The best cure for racism and other -isms is knowing people who are minorities or just different, having friends. The privileged minority doesn't have to and won't broaden their horizons, and if minorities self-segregate in disgust then the lack of empathy will only grow on both sides.
I've seen college students where I live (Philly) do similarly horrible, racist pranks. We had a student editorial about a year ago when a person of color, outraged like you, said that no people of color should attend my school. But, most of the white people I know aren't like that. Don't take their ignorance personally, and try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I'm a (white) woman and at night I usually ALWAYS cross the street when I'm going to cross someone's path, no matter what their color. I don't want to get mugged or assaulted.
If you want white people to change in your area, you, as an enlightened person, especially as a POC, have to be the one to turn your cheek and reach out to educate them. The best cure for racism and other -isms is knowing people who are minorities or just different, having friends. The privileged minority doesn't have to and won't broaden their horizons, and if minorities self-segregate in disgust then the lack of empathy will only grow on both sides.
144
auntie g: thanks!! it's a kitten that my parents saved from a litter in which 3 died and 2 (including that one) lived. my parents named the surviving two jackson (pictured) and farrah, because they were found shortly after the two real life people died. real sensitive, mom & dad.
i have always liked your positive comments, by the way. slog is full of haters, and i don't get that a lot from you.
i have always liked your positive comments, by the way. slog is full of haters, and i don't get that a lot from you.
146
@144: Thanks coming right back atcha! Yeah, I don't understand the hatred, either, especially from Republican cavemen towards women. Sigh. At least I know who I'm voting for.
On a brighter note: Jackson is so cute! Any pictures of Farrah? That's wonderful that your parents saved and named them after the deceased celebrities. One day I will have to be a dedicated cat slave again. I still live where my most recent beloved feline, Jay, made it to 17 years and 8 months, living over three times as long as my other cats.
On a brighter note: Jackson is so cute! Any pictures of Farrah? That's wonderful that your parents saved and named them after the deceased celebrities. One day I will have to be a dedicated cat slave again. I still live where my most recent beloved feline, Jay, made it to 17 years and 8 months, living over three times as long as my other cats.
147
Thanks Auntie, this queer Republican was just thinking you were slipping because you hadn't made a sexist comment yet.
Thanks for restoring my faith in Democrats.
Thanks for restoring my faith in Democrats.
148
My first thought is that the girl was joking and that the Latino lacked humor, but then I remember that video of the police beating the shit out of the 15 year old Latina girl in Seattle. Then what comes to mind is something I saw recently in Portland Maine, in the area known as Kennedy Park known for its immigrants, a single white girl about 13 years old, playing in the street with black Somalian girls her same age. There was no need for anyone to be a human-rights activist, display their sexual preference to expect more liberal treatment.
I think the man who wrote this article is at fault: you become too involved in your high-and-mighty labels that you wear, such as "queer" or "latino" and forget to have a sense of humor. There are plenty of white girls who dont see color. It sounds almost like reverse racism onto the white girl. But I do not live in your strange west-coast reality.
I think the man who wrote this article is at fault: you become too involved in your high-and-mighty labels that you wear, such as "queer" or "latino" and forget to have a sense of humor. There are plenty of white girls who dont see color. It sounds almost like reverse racism onto the white girl. But I do not live in your strange west-coast reality.
149
It sounds like you're having a really tough time. Those losers on a night out were just that losers. But sometimes girls cross the street to avoid men, most of the time it's not really conscious they don't think 'Oh God a he's not white. Flee!'. There is a reason for this, women are conditioned by society to be hyper vigilante, especially were men are concerned. It's perfectly reasonable to say the 99.99% of men don't won't attack a woman walking alone, and I'm not for a moment suggesting that anything in your manner, dress or even your skin colour is making white women think you're a threat.
The problem is that when someone is attacked, after the shock and the horror and the outrage there often comes the recrimination, 'If only she'd been more sensible' 'She shouldn't have been walking by herself' 'Women everywhere should take a lesson from this terrible tragedy'.
So basically, some people are arseholes and sometimes women will cross the street to avoid you and that shouldn't happen because you're a good guy. But unfortunately this is the world we live in, probably the best thing to do is what you've already done.
The problem is that when someone is attacked, after the shock and the horror and the outrage there often comes the recrimination, 'If only she'd been more sensible' 'She shouldn't have been walking by herself' 'Women everywhere should take a lesson from this terrible tragedy'.
So basically, some people are arseholes and sometimes women will cross the street to avoid you and that shouldn't happen because you're a good guy. But unfortunately this is the world we live in, probably the best thing to do is what you've already done.
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