December 12, 2012
Proud to Be Black Market
Street-Level Pot Dealers Say Their Illegal Weed Is Still Superior
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Now that smoking weed is perfectly legal and state-regulated pot stores are on their way, what do street-level pot dealers make of the passage of Initiative 502?
To find out, I went to the University District and walked along the Ave. When people called out "Bud?" or offered to sell me weed, I identified myself as a reporter and asked them what they thought about legalization.
Stranger Personals
I was surprised by how many of them talked to me. Some were suspicious that I was just looking for free weed. One guy—yes, they were all men—asked me if I was "jive-talking" him. (He then handed me a strawberry-flavored lollipop and told me to have a nice day.) Another guy, dressed in a fur hat and gold chain, responded to my question on his feelings about I-502 with a glare and a question of his own: "Do I look optimistic?"
Others had more to say. Standing near the Bank of America parking garage, a dealer who described himself as the man "with all the baggies but no sandwiches" told me he's feeling good about legalization. "You can smoke the Marlboro 420s or whatever, but I think people still like to come by here and buy their shit from the sidewalk," he said. "They'd rather buy their shit in sandwich bags."
Another dealer, standing at the bus stop near Jewel of India, told me he's going to be fine in part because "they'll charge out the ass at the stores. The government can't put a tax on my nuggets."
Since this dealer has no employees to compensate except himself, a direct supply line from a grower could, theoretically, undercut tax-heavy government weed prices. Another potential black market advantage: Customers may be able to buy bud with THC levels unregulated by the state.
But a dealer who identified himself as R, who deals primarily in ounces and quarter pounds, told me he fears legalization will give law-abiding yuppies the upper hand. "People might smoke more in the beginning, and business [on the street] might be a little better at first, but I already know all these Starbucks boys are gonna come in and take my business," he said.
Yet another dealer said he fears additional scrutiny from the police as the state tries to protect its new weed-selling powers. "They're gonna crack down on dealers because their whole thing was to get rid of the black market," he said. "I'm not worried about it right now, but a year from now, who knows?"
Still, several dealers maintained that even though there will be risks, and even though legit weed stores won't take forever to respond to text messages, they will always offer a better option. As one put it: "There's still something about breaking the law." 
1
"I'm not worried about it right now, but a year from now, who knows?"
Which is why I hope The Stranger is able to track these same guys down regularly for the next couple years and check in with them.
Which is why I hope The Stranger is able to track these same guys down regularly for the next couple years and check in with them.
2
I'm pretty sure that person in the picture just bought a very expensive bag of dried seaweed or, at best, a fuckload of shake.
3
Who the fuck buys drugs off the street?
Gross.
I wonder how many turn to mugging when idiot students stop buying their mexican dirtweed.
Gross.
I wonder how many turn to mugging when idiot students stop buying their mexican dirtweed.
4
"They're gonna crack down on dealers because their whole thing was to get rid of the black market," he said. "I'm not worried about it right now, but a year from now, who knows?"
I think that guy is right.
A year from now, the situation will probably be a LOT different than it is today.
Think back to Prohibition.
One day, buying bathtub gin is a reasonable option.
A year later you wouldn't even consider it.
I think that guy is right.
A year from now, the situation will probably be a LOT different than it is today.
Think back to Prohibition.
One day, buying bathtub gin is a reasonable option.
A year later you wouldn't even consider it.
6
"One guy...asked me if I was 'jive-talking' him"
"Another guy, dressed in a fur hat and gold chain"
Are you guys sure that Al actually went out interviewing? Seems to me he wrote this off the top of his head after watching a 70s blaxploitation movie marathon...
"Another guy, dressed in a fur hat and gold chain"
Are you guys sure that Al actually went out interviewing? Seems to me he wrote this off the top of his head after watching a 70s blaxploitation movie marathon...
9
How do you know if it's Hawaiian/Oregon/California/Canadian - and Organic and uncut? And what do people charge?
10
Also, how can you know if it's indica or sativa or ruderalis? Do they say and is there a way to check if you want one or the other or the other?
11
I see a lot of wishful thinking here. Most people break the law because they have to break the law to get cannabis. Once you have a regulated, legal option people will go to that, even if it is more expensive.
Don't just take my word for it. In Amsterdam they sell cannabis for around $17 a gram and there is hardly a dealer to be seen.
I am guessing that the prices might end up being different but the idea will be the same.
Don't just take my word for it. In Amsterdam they sell cannabis for around $17 a gram and there is hardly a dealer to be seen.
I am guessing that the prices might end up being different but the idea will be the same.
12
@10 Also, I would imagine they would get quite upset if you inspected it for seeds, checked the smell, tested to see how sticky it was, maybe sit it under a microscope to see the trichomes.
Dealers love that stuff.
Dealers love that stuff.
13
Is something stopping these guys from going into business legally? Why aren't they taking advantage of the new opportunities?
14
Man, if they go out of business, that section of the ave might finally turn around. Wouldn't that be nice.
15
"They'd rather buy their shit in sandwich bags."
Says someone who has never had the convenience, variety and diverse quality of MJ from a dispensery.
Keep dreaming buddy.
Says someone who has never had the convenience, variety and diverse quality of MJ from a dispensery.
Keep dreaming buddy.
17
The dispensaries are where you get the really good shit. These guys are like the guys that sell fake Rolex's on the street. Green cards are not hard to come by.
Now price is another story. I have no idea what the dispensaries are going to charge once the taxes kick in.
Now price is another story. I have no idea what the dispensaries are going to charge once the taxes kick in.
18
Sort of like American car salesmen in the 1980s watching cheap imports from Japan roll off the docks.
"No one will want those high mileage, less prone to breakdown cars...no, people will still come to the dealers they know and trust with our high margins and terrible service".
"No one will want those high mileage, less prone to breakdown cars...no, people will still come to the dealers they know and trust with our high margins and terrible service".
19
Maybe not technically tax, but the dealers add plenty of government induced overhead. No one takes the risk of growing or transporting for free. Dangerous smuggling is expensive, and that gets passed on to the consumer. After prohibition, only the shittiest, least reliable, most dangerous-to-the-consumer version of the drug is cheaper on the street.
20
As a medical marijuana 'patient', I'd gladly pay a little more, and do, to get great quality bud and a lot of variety, too. Indica, Sativa, hybrid, hash, tincture, edibles. I'm like a kid in a candy store. The same will happen with recreational pot sold in stores. I can't even imagine going out on the street to get weed any more, especially after having been ripped off more than once in my naive youth.
22
It's a hoot to see people wanting to pay $17 a gram to s state-operated marijuana cartel, when the actual cost of growing pot if it were legal would be 11 cents a gram.
23
Well, I guess it would be the same people who pay $5/pint for good local beer at a tavern rather than make their own, and pay $10 for a burger and fries at that same tavern rather than make their own for a hell of a lot less. And those taverns are pretty crowded every time we go to one of them.
24
@22
Hey, I don't create the news. I'm just saying that people are willing to pay a hefty premium not to deal with shady dealers to get goods of dubious quality. If you don't believe me, go to Amsterdam and see for yourself.
Of course, if you find a dealer that has lab verification of the THC and CBD content of their product, allows the customer to thoroughly examine the product, and can give detailed information about the genetics of the product I will stand very happily corrected.
Hey, I don't create the news. I'm just saying that people are willing to pay a hefty premium not to deal with shady dealers to get goods of dubious quality. If you don't believe me, go to Amsterdam and see for yourself.
Of course, if you find a dealer that has lab verification of the THC and CBD content of their product, allows the customer to thoroughly examine the product, and can give detailed information about the genetics of the product I will stand very happily corrected.
25
I'm worried that the new legality will devastate the dispensaries. THAT was the real fear, that these places providing excellent quality MMJ -- consistent quality, known varieties, edibles, a focus on CBDs as opposed to THCs -- will buckle and go under with the new laws. Thus depriving patients who truly benefit from good stuff, in favor of an Amsterdam-like focus on getting stoned.
26
@25
I would recommend visiting the forums for the Amsterdam Coffeeshop Directory.
When they don't have to worry about being tossed in jail, recreational cannabis users can be just as fussy as any wine drinker.
If anything, dispensaries that service recreational users will do extremely well. If you give them a lounge where they can smoke while debating the exact THC/CBD ratio of Tangerine Dream or how the terroir of cannabis grown in Amsterdam or Copenhagen is totally different from that grown in Washington you will never have to worry about losing money ever again.
Or, if you don't think that is the case remember that there is still a market of actual for real medical users. If there is a market for it then people will grow it. Or are you saying that the people who were suffering from "I don't wanna get arrested-itis" were creating most of the market in dispensaries and therefore the whole program was primarily a sham?
I would recommend visiting the forums for the Amsterdam Coffeeshop Directory.
When they don't have to worry about being tossed in jail, recreational cannabis users can be just as fussy as any wine drinker.
If anything, dispensaries that service recreational users will do extremely well. If you give them a lounge where they can smoke while debating the exact THC/CBD ratio of Tangerine Dream or how the terroir of cannabis grown in Amsterdam or Copenhagen is totally different from that grown in Washington you will never have to worry about losing money ever again.
Or, if you don't think that is the case remember that there is still a market of actual for real medical users. If there is a market for it then people will grow it. Or are you saying that the people who were suffering from "I don't wanna get arrested-itis" were creating most of the market in dispensaries and therefore the whole program was primarily a sham?
27
It is better than what I get in my neighborhood dispensary. Fresher, etc.
But there are higher end dispensaries I could go across town.
But there are higher end dispensaries I could go across town.
28
@24 I'm not sure when the last time you were on the ave was. If you go to the good dealers out there it is 100% shit they just bought from one of the many dispensaries on the ave. I go out there when my guy is dry and my last dime bag was 1.2g and the dealers always know the strain.
29
Ok all you potheads. Between now and when licensed dealers appear, where should your average unconnected lame-o go to get some weed these days?
30
@28
Really? So you are saying that the dealer goes to a nice regulated store instead of the consumer. That seems like a totally necessary middle man.
So, this of course means that he or she will be totally fine with the potential buyer spending a few minutes closely examining the product.
Btw, where does he or she keep the microscope that you can use to examine the trichomes(and yes, that can be important as some cannabis is laced with tiny glass beads, called "grit weed". Also, at least one of the coffeeshops in Amsterdam has a microscope available to check the quality of the product)?
@29
You indirectly bring up a good point. In order to get cannabis with the black market you have to be at least somewhat cool. As someone who is about as cool as a volcano I much prefer the store route.
Really? So you are saying that the dealer goes to a nice regulated store instead of the consumer. That seems like a totally necessary middle man.
So, this of course means that he or she will be totally fine with the potential buyer spending a few minutes closely examining the product.
Btw, where does he or she keep the microscope that you can use to examine the trichomes(and yes, that can be important as some cannabis is laced with tiny glass beads, called "grit weed". Also, at least one of the coffeeshops in Amsterdam has a microscope available to check the quality of the product)?
@29
You indirectly bring up a good point. In order to get cannabis with the black market you have to be at least somewhat cool. As someone who is about as cool as a volcano I much prefer the store route.
31
Is that a stock photo or do Seattle dealers really accept Loonies these days? I guess it would save them the foreign exchange fee when they pay their suppliers.
32
It is stunning that the reporter either neglected to report or none of these dealers talked about the business opportunity in front of them. How completely moronic can you be? "It's going to hurt my business." You complete fools: you helped create the demand for the business. Shouldn't you be the first people in line trying to get licenses to sell it legally? There truly is no hope for the terminally stupid.
33
This article's title is very misleading. Only one of the dealers interviewed thought people would still buy from him.
Bad article, don't mislead with your headline.
Bad article, don't mislead with your headline.
34
If you have ever visited a dispensary in California you would know that the best ones had 25-30 different strains broken down by indica, sative and hybrid and THC levels are posted on the "medicine". Prices rane from between $5-8 a gram for the lower end stuff up to $30 a gram for the true gourmet stuff.
A lot of the dispensaries once you get past the card check you enter the back room which is staffed by cute knowledgable young ladies. These places are clean and nicely maintained, it is a business after all.
A lot of the dispensaries once you get past the card check you enter the back room which is staffed by cute knowledgable young ladies. These places are clean and nicely maintained, it is a business after all.
35
Oh yes, pretty soon all those black kids are gonna be put out of work by white pot dealing business men. How does it feel to screw over people of color?
36
Another government ploy to get users to put their name on a list.
Check with all the recently busted dispensaries, the first thing the feds grabbed was the customer lists...
Just because it is legal at state level, the feds are still busting pot users in those states.
Check with all the recently busted dispensaries, the first thing the feds grabbed was the customer lists...
Just because it is legal at state level, the feds are still busting pot users in those states.
37
Another government ploy to get users to put their name on a list.
Check with all the recently busted dispensaries, the first thing the feds grabbed was the customer lists...
Just because it is legal at state level, the feds are still busting pot users in those states.
Check with all the recently busted dispensaries, the first thing the feds grabbed was the customer lists...
Just because it is legal at state level, the feds are still busting pot users in those states.
39
I live in a place where I can buy legal medical pot and I am a member of a CoOp. At the CoOp, all the pot is tested for potency, labeled (so we know exactly what kind it is) and is supplied from certified local growers.
Now, would you pay a bit more for that, or would you prefer to get your stuff off the streets where for all you know it comes from Mexico and/or is sprayed with pesticides and/or has mold on it?
Now, would you pay a bit more for that, or would you prefer to get your stuff off the streets where for all you know it comes from Mexico and/or is sprayed with pesticides and/or has mold on it?
40
I guess it would be the same people who pay $5/pint for good local beer at a tavern rather than make their own, and pay $10 for a burger and fries at that same tavern rather than make their own for a hell of a lot less.
#23, if I cook a burger and fries at home, the ingredients and fuel will cost me about $3. If I pay $10 at the restaurant, the other $7 is for the service and the restaurant's setting.
According to this Rand Corp. report, if marijuana were really legalized rather than being controlled by a state government cartel, it would cost $2.85 a gram to grow at 15% THC potency in the central valley of California.
So, when you pay $17 a gram, that's 170 times the cost to grow. Let's be really generous and quintuple the growing cost to account for processing, distribution, retailing, and reasonable taxes, and call it 50 cents a gram. The $17 a gram you're comfortable with is still 34 times the cost of the ingredient, and you don't even get the service or the surroundings.
Put that in hamburger terms, and were talking about a $100 burger and fries in a restaurant. That's what your state-enforced cartel will be wanting to do. If you're happy with that, well, all that tells me is there's a reason they call it "dope."
#23, if I cook a burger and fries at home, the ingredients and fuel will cost me about $3. If I pay $10 at the restaurant, the other $7 is for the service and the restaurant's setting.
According to this Rand Corp. report, if marijuana were really legalized rather than being controlled by a state government cartel, it would cost $2.85 a gram to grow at 15% THC potency in the central valley of California.
So, when you pay $17 a gram, that's 170 times the cost to grow. Let's be really generous and quintuple the growing cost to account for processing, distribution, retailing, and reasonable taxes, and call it 50 cents a gram. The $17 a gram you're comfortable with is still 34 times the cost of the ingredient, and you don't even get the service or the surroundings.
Put that in hamburger terms, and were talking about a $100 burger and fries in a restaurant. That's what your state-enforced cartel will be wanting to do. If you're happy with that, well, all that tells me is there's a reason they call it "dope."
41
Correction: According to Rand, it would cost $2.85 an ounce to grow 15% THC marijuana in California's central valley. That's 10 cents a gram.
42
@40/41 - And most pharmaceuticals cost the producers a penny or two a pill. That doesn't make your prescription drugs free either. Welcome to a supply and demand economy.
43
#42, pharmaceuticals are manufactured, patent-protected products. Marijuana is a mere commodity that anyone could grow in their backyard if it was legal like, say, beer.
44
Also, #42, I'd point out that Pfizer reports an 85% or so gross margin, while the state-government marijuana cartel will be enforcing a 97% gross margin. And unlike some drug that has to be tested and approved in three-phase trials, and whose manufacturing process is strictly regulated by the FDA, in the case of marijuana we're talking about a 34-fold markup on a commodity that any competent gardener could easily produce himself.
But hey, if the stoners want to pay $17 a gram for something they could grow themselves for 10 or 20 cents, as a taxpayer I guess I'll be happy to take advantage of their gross stupidity!
But hey, if the stoners want to pay $17 a gram for something they could grow themselves for 10 or 20 cents, as a taxpayer I guess I'll be happy to take advantage of their gross stupidity!
45
This is sadly typical of businesses whose markets are about to fall out from under them. They just don't want to believe that their way of life is about to end and that they're going to have to figure out a new way to make a living, so they indulge in wishful thinking.
46
Concentrates....wax specifically. Don't touch flowers except for the occasional preroll these days.
47
#45, the street dealers will do just fine. Even if the feds allow the state government cartel to get up and running (a very big "if"), there is so much profit in the business that the state will simply get undercut.
When it can be grown for 10 or 11 cents a gram, there's a whole lot of room to cut the margins against a profiteering state cartel. You see, once recreational use is formally legalized, any state retaliation against competitors is going to look not like law enforcement but like monopolist protection.
Maybe that's the one piece of good news for stoners in I-502. It will hasten the collapse of the whole structure. The day will come when marijuana is actually legalized, at which point it will be cheaper than any of the stoners (or just about anyone else) dares to imagine.
When it can be grown for 10 or 11 cents a gram, there's a whole lot of room to cut the margins against a profiteering state cartel. You see, once recreational use is formally legalized, any state retaliation against competitors is going to look not like law enforcement but like monopolist protection.
Maybe that's the one piece of good news for stoners in I-502. It will hasten the collapse of the whole structure. The day will come when marijuana is actually legalized, at which point it will be cheaper than any of the stoners (or just about anyone else) dares to imagine.
48
@47, Mister G. wrote, "Maybe that's the one piece of good news for stoners in I-502. It will hasten the collapse of the whole structure."
For many of us who supported I-502, the most compelling reason to vote for it was the likelihood that it would lead to a collapse of the United States Government's so-called war on drugs.
I want us to stop imprisoning people for things I don't even think are wrong, much less deserving of jail time. The best target at this time for bringing down the prison industrial complex is U.S. drug policy, and the best target at this time for fixing our drug policy is cannabis policy.
For many of us who supported I-502, the most compelling reason to vote for it was the likelihood that it would lead to a collapse of the United States Government's so-called war on drugs.
I want us to stop imprisoning people for things I don't even think are wrong, much less deserving of jail time. The best target at this time for bringing down the prison industrial complex is U.S. drug policy, and the best target at this time for fixing our drug policy is cannabis policy.
49
these idiot drug dealer criminal morons dont get that THEY were never ok in society, THEY have always been the problem and why it took so long to get this law passed. No one wanted to see more of these fucktards
51
#48, it really depends on the federal response. This is truly the crossroads. Either they enforce federal law, or it's all over. There's no more "kicking the can." The "medical marijuana" fiction is now done for. The feds now must decide whether dope will be legal or illegal.
52
Those guys have clearly never seen the inside of a medical marijuana clinic. I will NEVER buy my weed from street dealers anymore. Legitimate clinics offer better quality weed at sometimes much lower prices than the street. They have sales just like any other store. Sales that allow them to sell a quarter ounce of Grand Daddy Purple for $55. Street dealers are a dying breed.
53
Wow, #52, only $7.76 per gram for something that would cost any competent gardener 10 cents to grow if marijuana was legal. Know of any other bargains?
54
I see that Obama has said the feds won't enforce federal law here, so I think it's only a matter of time (and probably not very much time) until the entire edifice comes crashing down. I-502 was a joke and will never work, but it ought to hasten the day when marijuana is actually legalized.
Or maybe not! Maybe the stoners here really are going to be happy paying markups of 75- to 175-fold to the state government cartel. I tend to doubt it pretty strongly, but then I also tend to doubt the intelligence and diligence of your average stoner.
Or maybe not! Maybe the stoners here really are going to be happy paying markups of 75- to 175-fold to the state government cartel. I tend to doubt it pretty strongly, but then I also tend to doubt the intelligence and diligence of your average stoner.
55
If anyone wants to really know whats going on with weed, how to get it, the law and everything... just come by our shop. cannnarxseattle.com this is not a troll but just sick of everyone not knowing anything.
56
I TOLD Y'ALL STREET-DEALERS WOULD SAY THIS; Y'ALL WOULD NOT BELIEVE ME. SOON, LEGAL DEALERS WILL BE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE POWER AND INFLUENCE OF STREET-DEALERS.
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON
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