"Open for discussion" means you have to be willing to discuss it, not that you have no stated goals or expectations. "No rules or contracts" would preclude a monogamous marriage. LW's husband doesn't seem to understand language or logic. Tell him he opens the discussion or you open the door and walk out.

And Of Course, DON'T HAVE KIDS.

We must say, this is the saddest excuse for a marriage we have ever heard.
You really won't be out anything when it goes south.
Or souther.

And it's gays who are ruining marriage. Riiiight. We don't know what gender LW is but this letter is a slap in the face to everyone who fought so hard for same-sex marriage rights. If morons like CID are issued marriage certificates because they want a tax break, but same-sex couples who actually love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives (not "indefinitely") together are denied the right, it just illustrates what a sham the concept of marriage really is.

"Don't have kids" is the new "men shouldn't do housework." Shrewd, as many feminists will agree. But still fucking tedious to read in response to every. single. letter.

There are a couple things that might work:

You might say, I never agreed to an endlessly monogamous marriage, and if the opportunity arises, I may seize it. If you have any questions about this, I'm happy to talk about it. Then conduct your non-monogamous marriage in the most benevolent way possible: I.e., in a manner that doesn't affect him at all. If he finds that it doesn't affect him, he may be end up fine with it.

Or, you might find him a woman. The quickest way to get a monogamous partner into non-monogamy is options. "Finding him a woman" most likely just means making sure you, as a couple, are hanging around other women who are themselves on the non-monogamy page.

I recall trying to sit my husband down and tell him that the marriage wasn't working for me, and that he either had to address my concerns and make things worthwhile to me or else I was going to file for divorce. He dismissively told me there was nothing to discuss and walked out. I sat there in the empty room thinking about that. Within the month, he was flabbergasted to be served with divorce papers. His surprise was the most confusing thing of all.

@5. I don't know if its men (having never been married to a woman) but yes, that happened with my first husband as well. I said, here are the problems, a, b, and c. He just ignored me, until I walked out the door.

This is the hard struggle I have with "ultimatums." People say they are so bad, but what if it is the truth? And the only option is that you are going to leave? Should you simply hand your partner the divorce papers one day and walk out, leaving them shellshocked? Or state the ultimatum.

3
Well, it's really important; and bears repeating.
Try to hang in there.

@5 and @6: "Da Nile" ain't just a river in Egypt.

People are unable hear anything they are not ready to hear.

@6 Yeah, I think people take the 'ultimatums are wrong' thing way too far. I mean obviously it's not OK if you're using them just to be manipulative and don't mean a word of it, but if you're genuinely in a place of 'this problem must be fixed/ you must stop doing X or I can't stay in this relationship' I don't think it's wrong to let your partner know that.

@1 I had the exact same reaction. Husband seems to just say whatever he needs to in order to get the outcome he wants. Not great material for a partner.

It sounds like the LW's husband has more negotiating power here than LW - LW wants him to write down what their commitment means, and he won't, but he can specify the marriage is monogamous and LW's gotta stick to that. Seems like as things stand, there's not much reason for the husband to *start* negotiations - he already has what he wants (no rules or expect actions, except monogamy I guess), so why should he want to negotiate?

In order for negotiations to proceed I think the LW needs to make it clear this isn't a one-way street. Not saying LW should unilaterally open the marriage or walk away, but they've got to use the leverage of their presence, to use a Dan-ism. But I agree this was something to iron out before the wedding, not after it.

CID, at first, I thought your husband sounds like a controlling, disingenuous jerk, however, your statement, "I was honest about my preference for open relationships from the beginning but agreed at the start of our marriage to be monogamous," caught my eye.

What exactly did you express to your now husband about your interest in non-monogamy? In particular, I'm focusing on your use of the work "preference" and your agreement to start the marriage with a monogamous commitment. If you say, "I prefer non-monogamy over monogamy." You're saying non-monogamy and monogamy are both acceptable, but one choice ranks above the other. Whereas if you say, "I want non-monogamy, and not monogamy." You're making a choice of non-monogamy and rejecting monogamy. It sounds like you expressed an interest in non-monogamy while simultaneously agreeing to your husbands request to be monogamous.

Perhaps you softened your stance in hoping that after the wedding your then husband would come around to a non-monogamous relationship. Perhaps you husband heard what he wanted when you expressed what you wanted in your marriage, but agreed to monogamy. Perhaps your husband is a jerk you agreed to non-monogamous marriage at some point, only to renege on the pledge after your wedding.

In any event, I'm not sure that your husband is a jerk, but it is clear that neither of you discussed your sexual deal breakers thoroughly enough before the wedding, and you appear to have incompatible interests. Contact a divorce lawyer and end this marriage sooner so that you can both have the relationship you each want.

There is a difference between:
Here's the plan. We can change if circumstances change and we have to.
and
Why bother making a plan. We'll wing it as I see fit.

But lots of people see no difference between the two. I'm reminded of the way people used to plan to meet others at a particular time and place, then would wish they had a way of contacting the other party when buses broke down. Now, with cell phones, they don't bother even to make the appointment.

Even CID is doing it to an extent. (I'm guessing female?) She wants to enjoin her husband to figure out the rules to their commitment together. I'd advise her to figure out what she wants, present it to him, see if she can get him to sign on, and start negotiations from there. Really, I think it unfair of her to say that she wants a contract and then expect him to draw it up.

Regarding issuing an ultimatum, I like Carolyn Hax's approach: talk about your unhappiness, but without the threat.

That's how you can find out if your partner cares about your feelings and needs, rather than just fearing the end of the relationship.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washing…

@EricaP, I like that: thanks for the link.

@StrangerMyself, my pleasure!