What happened to Lustlab???? I looked for it today and it was gone. Is this what Trump's America is going to be like?

Someone clearly doesn't know the meaning of neo-liberal... but precisely because of that, they inadvertently managed to say something much closer to the truth than what they actually wanted to say.

The Greens have often been Republican tools over a 20 year period.

Accepting, cash infusions from Republicans in order to run in races -- which, once the left vote is split, Republicans win.

And repeating that process over and over, so ignorance of the outcome was no excuse.

And, at one point, Republicans ran street people as Greens!

Stein was well aware of the result of her run, even if she wasnt somehow in collusion with Russia/Trump campaign.

The woman is dirt beneath our feet.

Re: the Jill Stein guy

Jesus P. Christ I hate when people use the word "accountability" in reference to politics. It's absolutely meaningless. Also, everything else he wrote.

About the Strep carrier: this makes NO SENSE at all: once you get a bacterial infection and ride it out, YOU ARE IMMUNE. She should not be getting the SAME strep infection over and over again. Sorry, but I think we got Catfished!

Oh my fucking God, fuck this "identity politics" bullshit.

"Identity politics" is a term used by straight white men to attack any issue that doesn't directly benefit straight white men.

And fuck these attacks on the Clinton Foundation. Their foundation wasn't about personal enrichment -- the Clintons themselves donated MILLIONS to it, and that money went to saving lives all over the world, including providing HIV medication to 11 million people. Who the fuck cares WHY people were donating to it if the Clintons weren't personally benefiting from it. And if you attack the Clinton Foundation while ignoring the Trump Foundation, you're either a Trump or GOP apologist, or one of their useful tools. The Trump Foundation hasn't gotten any money from Trump himself, but instead illegally solicited donations from others (which wasn't allowed under the nature of how they were set up) to bribe politicians, pay off Trump's legal liabilities, and buy gifts for Trump himself.

There are a lot of Green Party members I respect. But Jill Stein is no genuine Green, and a lot of Green Party members (in the US and especially in Russia where she's despised) no longer trust her. I doubt she could get the nomination again if she tried.

@5 um, I don't think you understand the immune system. You are not immune after "riding out" a bacterial infection. You're thinking a virus, and even then it depends on the virus, the person's immune system, etc.

@6 +1. Clinton Foundation is a charity that does amazing things. Clintons got HUGE donations for just showing up at parties. If Trump did deals that HUGE... The hypocrisy / double standard / bullshit against the Clintons from left and right (esp. right wing) and main stream media was / is sickening.

"After reading your column by chance in Clevelands Scene Magazine, you must have hit a new low in readership. An ear fetish and suicide nut, do you really live in my world?"

I like how he actually didn't read the article.

@6/7: These Stein posters are just temporarily embarrassed Republicans. They have no left leaning goals they're willing to work towards, just "principles".

@8 That's because you Hillary supporters are the REAL liberals. Right?

Oh Dan... you have a professional historian — who dug the dusty archives in Italy to examine all the available original documents, in their original language —telling you that there is no evidence for Michaelangelo's alleged homosexuality... and your response is "Google it" ?!?! WTF? I can guarantee that those who write on publicly available pages have not done even 1% of the work your professional reader did. Sadly, peer-reviewed articles are usually not accessible from Google, and peer-reviewed books are tl;dr for those who want quick answers. Google gives you a minuscule amount of available information, and even that is often based on self perpetuating myths. It does not provide knowledge, only the illusion of it, which, as we know, is more dangerous than ignorance.

Seriously, I didn't hear anything, and it's been a while since I've been on, about Lustlab and Lovelab ending. When? Why?

@6 such a short, short, short view of history you have!

@10; look at his work, he had a mighty fine appreciation of the male body.

Dan, Mr. Mudede was able to get beyond his Amanda Knox fixation. You can get beyond your Stein fixation as well. I bet she's a temporary substitute for your Nader fixation, so maybe it's a step up. Or it could be a step sideways. You can get help, you know.

Some more depressing news…
One of the writers wrote the following: “As a straight heterosexual female, I need to see some proof other than your assumption that most of us want our men to be a male pig for us. Or, as I think is the case—you need to define what it is you mean by it.”
Once again Mr. Savage avoided the issue, leaving us all on our own.

Lava @ 13 - Yes. For those who have eyes to see, it's pretty obvious.

Unfortunately, Stein has that 6 million war chest she gulled out of the gullible for her phony vote counting scheme.

And the backing of Putin.

If you think that wont excite Greens, youre not paying attention.

LavaGirl and Ricardo — I understand your sentiment, but that's why you need an expert, who didn't only look with their own eyes, but also studied numerous other sculptors and painters who had similar appreciation to male bodies; expert who understands changes in style, historical context of aesthetic preferences, and even culture-specific erotic representation. And yeah, one who trained for decades to be able to decipher what historical documents are saying.

More importantly, however, is that Michaelangelo being gay or not should not have any bearing on our own, early 21st century, perception of homosexuality. So-and-so was a famous artist and was gay and another so-and-so was equally famous but was not gay. So what?

On the other hand, the anti-intellectualism expressed by phrases like "just look at it" or "Google it" IS a dangerous trend, which has direct influence on our lives. It is exactly what anti-vaxxers are doing when they reject expert opinion and trust the mighty Google to confirm their beliefs. It is also exactly what anti-climate change and creationists are doing when they reject what professionals are saying and instead trust their "common sense." You probably don't want to be in that crowd.

@18: Kusanagi: the anti climate change mob are denying the changed patterns in the weather, Ice caps melting etc etc. Not sure where their common sense comes in.
Michaelengelo may not have acted on his homoerotic impulses, doesn't mean he wasn't gay or bi.
His representation of the male body indicates to me an erotic interest. Would a straight man render the male body so lovingly?

Anyone else picturing this scene when reading the muscle fetishist's letter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEx8__ie…
I'm glad they found a mutually enjoyable way to satisfy LW's fantasies!

Hater #1: Yes, ear and suicide fetishists exist in your world. Surprise!

CMD @15: How is finding out, for the zillionth time, that "not all women like the same things" depressing? Some women like sexually aggressive (when they've consented to it) men, some women like men to always be respectful and let them take the lead. Instead of trying to be something one is not, why not instead hope to find someone with whom one's sexual style is compatible? If she wants a pig and you're not one, move along. (Or ask her what she likes. It's not rocket science.)

@18 +1

Why should I trust facts and evidence when I already made up my own belief on a topic? Once I've decided what I think, any evidence to the contrary must be ignored or rejected. Clearly my own perception is more accurate than researched information. Duh, it's common sense. And of course, everybody accuses the other side of doing it, but can't even acknowledge they might, perhaps, just maybe, have their own biases too. @19 couldn't have been a more perfect response to make @18's point.

@9: "That's because you Hillary supporters are the REAL liberals. Right?"

"Liberals" is irrelevant. If you ignore Bernie's aims and goals no amount of Bernie or Busting is going to make you a leftist. You fucked us up, and you'll continue sabotaging what we had, and who cares, because Hillary lost! Whoooooo

I supported Hillary after Bernie lost, and if you can't see how she would be better than who we have fuck the fuck off to Breitbart down with Raindrop and Seattleblues.

"Town"

@18+1; @21+1

I'm a straight woman who has a mighty fine appreciation for the female form. I'm not a sculptor, but if I was, one of my subjects would be female nudes, which I would render (if I could) "lovingly."
The fact that Michaelangelo's male nudes are beautiful says absolutely nothing about his sexual orientation.

And it was seriously obnoxious and disrespectful of Dan to dismiss an art historian, who has devoted years of study and has amassed a lot of knowledge with a "Google says" response. WTF is right.

@ 18, 21 and 25 - Actually, if you open your eyes to what's happening in the world climate-wise, you will find that you don't really need expert advice to realize that the planet's climate is changing, and fast. It's fucking obvious. Which does not mean that it's not useful having experts demonstrate it, since many politicians and industrials find it a most inconvenient truth and will do everything they can to avoid having to deal with it. But that's a different issue.

Having an expert tell us that "if you take a moment to check out evidence about his personal hygiene you'll agree with the current, most likely, train of thought, that he was asexual" does not mean that he wasn't repressing his desires (does the phrase "internalized homophobia" ring a bell, anyone?), and there's a multitude of other reasons why he wouldn't mention them on paper.

Unfortunately, so far no expert has the ability to go back in time to confirm their conclusions concerning an artist's innermost impulses. They may be educated deductions, but they're still deductions, not fact. Climate change is happening now, and easily measurable. You simply can't compare the two. Find a better analogy.

Ricardo, i wasn't referring to climate change, and I wasn't referring to hygiene. I was referring to the part of the letter Dan got which said:
"But what's really got me is your assumption about Michelangelo. I am also an Historian and an Art Historian. From all his letters, poetry, and other primary sources of the period, there is no evidence that he was homosexual." (emphasis mine)

It may be impossible to know with any certainty what Michaelangelo's sexual orientation was, but to dismiss a scholar's expertise because of a Google search was insulting and frankly, I think, irresponsible of Dan, considering that we are living in an era when beliefs supercede facts.

Actually, on second thought, the climate change analogy is pretty good.

There is no way an asexual man could have done the work Michaelangelo did, his male nudes are too erotic.
If he didn't act out homoerotic impulses, except thru his work, doesn't mean he wasn't gay or bi.

My take is he was 100% gay, he loved and idolised those boys in his work.

BDF @ 20
My otherwise not-so-unusual whining came this time in reference to the broader picture of acceptable sexy pigishnes as manifested in different relationships.
(And if I may, may I suggest we call this phenomenon “kosher pig?”)
Anyway…This is something I’ve expressed a week or two ago and was hoping Dan would be willing to start the conversation by stating his very own accepted pigishnesness.
I promised myself to seriously consider being the second, but unfortunately still reluctant to be the first.

Lava @ 30
While haven’t done so recently, I remember looking at Mikey’s art through a then strictly het male, and my hard-wired homophobia never yielding anything homo-alarmish.
Of course, it’s always in the eye of the beholder. For me the “smoking gun,” or lack of, was David’s fairly realistic small-ish penis typical for a youngster. Not to mention the poor kid standing nude for hours in what may have been a freezing studio.

@5 Sorry you're completely wrong. That would be great if we were immune from ever getting the same bacterial infection again after getting through it once, but we definitely are not.

CMC @31

For me the “smoking gun,” or lack of, was David’s fairly realistic small-ish penis typical for a youngster.

As far as I know (but I'm not an art historian) in classical and renaissance sculpture, all male figures who are supposed to be "noble" have fairly small penises. Not for reasons of realism, but because a large penis is considered "animal-like".
So David's small penis is there for idealistic reasons, not realistic ones.

Dan and the Art Historian might both be right on Michelangelo. He might have been a gay man with a very low libido or even a gay man with regular libido who remained celibate throughout his life. Like, you know, Dumbledore (I guess).
He might also have never pursued a romantic or sexual relationship with anyone, possibly due to the social and political culture of the age he lived in.

CMD @31: Freezing? In Italy? Probably not.

What difference does it make what Michelangelo's sexual orientation was? We can't ask him. His art is beautiful and has inspired countless gay/bi men with the message that it is okay to appreciate the beauty of the nude male form. That is all I need to know.

@13 That was meant as a joke, right?

@33: Reg Eur, that was what I had been taught. Michaelangelo was a Renaissance sculptor, inspired by the Classical Greeks, who associated large penises (at least in sculpture) with more animalistic men, and small penises with more noble-born and also refined men. This is a helpful read and it starts with a close-up of Michaelangelo's David's out-of-proportion, small dick to illustrate. Actually, David is unrealistic in other ways: his hands are disproportionately large, because the statue is about the moment when he was about to take down Goliath.

I don't have an opinion on Michaelangelo's sexuality, and I don't think it makes a difference to understanding his art. The only reason I can suppose it's relevant is that historically under-represented populations (in this case the LGBT, especially the G) should see themselves represented and those representatives should be positive. So if that community wants to claim Michaelangelo as one of theirs, fine.

But.

I also think that Dan's overriding an actual art historian in favor of Google, and dismissing the responses he didn't like because he wants the famous artist to have been gay was insulting. Particularly now, when we live in an era where opinions and beliefs count for more than facts or when the very idea of "facts" is that they are just opinions arising from worldviews and political bias, I think a man who is on the editorial staff of a newspaper should not be suggesting that scholars' research holds as much weight as the contents of a Google search that you happen to agree with. That's a dangerous attitude.

Lastly, the idea that anyone can know the sexuality of anyone else, especially someone who lived over 450 years ago, in a time and culture that may have had different notions of sexuality and sexual orientation than we do and to which we are not privy, simply by looking at their artistic output and seeing the skill and talent of the artist and then deciding that said artist was probably suffering from internalized homophobia, etc., is simply too silly to take seriously.

Reg Eur,
nocute
Thanks for very interesting historic perspective.

@35: BiDanFan, your saying: "What difference does it make what Michelangelo's sexual orientation was? We can't ask him. His art is beautiful and has inspired countless gay/bi men with the message that it is okay to appreciate the beauty of the nude male form. That is all I need to know," reminds me of Keats' "Ode on A Grecian Urn": " Beauty is truth, truth beauty,” – that is all/Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."

Except I would amend your statement to read: What difference does it make what Michelangelo's sexual orientation was? We can't ask him. His art is beautiful and has inspired countless people with the message that it is okay to appreciate the beauty of the nude male form. That is all I need to know.

After all, inspiration and appreciation should be equal opportunity employers.

Nocute @39: True -- I was just trying to address the reason why queer men want to claim Michelangelo as one of their own.

Visual Art provides clues to a person's inner life, and acedemics might take some time and look at it. They don't trust their eyes to tell them the story, they have to have words as proof?

Ricardo; brother from another mother. Hugs.

@LavaGirl: I take gorgeous photos of classic cars. I love the way they look, and people who don't give a damn about classic cars who have seen my photos often say that my photos help them understand the beauty of these automobiles. However, I have no desire to make love to them, nor am I that interested, even, in owning them or driving them (I would like to drive a '57 Chevy again, as that was the first car I ever drove). I'm not saying Michelangelo wasn't gay, but I am saying his loving renditions of the male form prove nothing about his sexuality.

And while I very much enjoy Savage Love Slog, and have the utmost respect for what Dan has done to help people appreciate, enjoy, and be happy with their sexuality, whatever it is, I deplore his dismissing an academic researcher in favor of googling.

@43: But . . . but . . . can't you tell that Andy Warhol wanted to sex with Campbell's Soup
And Jasper Johns clearly wants to fuck a flag.
And I don't want think what that sick pervert Monet was up to with all those haystacks!

For fuck's sake.

A big +1 to 10, 18, 21, 26, and 37!
We have an actual scholar in the specific area of study being discussed casually dismissed with, "I googled it for a few minutes and found that your years of actual real-world expertise is wrong." WTF, Dan? I don't give a shit if Mike was gay or not, but a true expert's input warrants more than a vague Google dismissal.

Mark my words: Stein fans will continue to be holyer-than-thou twatburgers.

Many people where I live think that the while contrails left by airplanes consist of chemicals that the government is spraying over communities to pacify the populous. If you respond that in fact, it's water vapor, they'll tell you to google it.

A man I met told me that WD-40 is good for arthritis. 'Cus, ya know, it's a lubricant. Again, I was told to "google it."

A topic search on the internet will reliably produce a whole bunch of people's opinions about that topic. Which, as we should all know by now, often has little or no relationship to the truth. You don't have to take a test to post crap on the internet. Dan, sadly, I have to agree here: you blew it with the google answer.

//white contrails, sorry.

Regarding the “strep carrier.”

I started up medical clinics in rural Nevada casino towns back in the 1970s. I sent the lab specimens including cultures from all orifices of the human body along with referring patients in to the University of Utah. My case studies were ALWAYS the most commented on.

These small towns usually set up near railroads and interstates have unique inbreeding. Those black jack dealers, pit bosses, cocktail waitresses are at the end of their professions...and lives. Started out in Vegas or Reno (of old) they are now alcoholics, drug addicts, and ...well sex workers as prostitution in legal in Nevada outside the counties of Vegas and Reno.

I had a strep breakout in vaginal infections. It took the public health departments of both Utah and Nevada to figure out “patient zero.” He was a male black jack dealer who was stunningly gorgeous and unfortunately quite psychotic. Oh the charm of a psychopath!

The epidemic of strep continued. Strep can be a very serious illness as it can destroy the valves of the heart. This area is called the “strep belt” for a good reason and why Utah leads the nation in the number of heart surgeons per capita.

It finally resolved when this man disappeared. Sex workers “disappeared” often in the desert. He met up with someone more psychotic than he was. Any fool who says that prostitution is a victimless crime is an idiot who never worked with truck stop prostitutes or rural Nevada “bordellos.” (Nice name for a rusted out trailer on a mountainside.)