Can his military pension be revoked? We don't let honorably discharged terrorists get buried with full military honors any longer. Should we be paying the pensions of traitors?
didn't you learn ANYTHING from the maddow disaster? this is probably another huge nothingburger. there are plenty of reasons for him to seek immunity beyond "OMG PEE GATE!!!"
18 U.S.C. § 6005 allows any Congressional committee or subcommittee to grant immunity for testimony. The grant needs to be approved in various way, including by a district court, and the Attorney General must be notified and he has ten days to appeal the grant, but Congress does have the authority. However, many argue the statute violates the separation of powers and the ability to decide whom to prosecute is an executive action, not a legislative one. Immunity is, at its heart, a matter of prosecutorial discretion and Congress is impinging on that power. I don't see any current Congressional committee granting immunity absent consent from the AG.
Is everyone afflicted with short memory? The last time those clowns in Congress handed out immunity from prosecution in a scandal of this scale was Iran-Contra. Ollie North went in front of the committee and came off as a misunderstood patriot (and he didn't flip on any of his superiors). It made for great TV, but when he was later convicted of several felonies, the convictions were overturned because they'd used (indirectly) his immunized testimony. All the others who didn't flip and were subsequently convicted got pardoned by George Bush. The only person who should grant immunity is whoever is running the grand jury, and only after a preview.
It may be premature to grant Flynn immunity.
Investigators may want to learn more before giving him immunity...
There may be someone down the food chain who will 'turn' and convince Flynn, for example, to testify with only 2 years of prison...just an example.
There may be someone down the food chain who will 'turn' so that, for example, Feds will be able to convince Flynn to testify with only 2 years of prison.
Flynn's crimes MAY be too serious to be given complete immunity.
Yeah, no matter how insane the treasonous corruption, the RepubliKKKans will brand him a turboheropatriot for AMERIKKKA, and he'll be given a book deal, a radio show, and right-wing celebrity status for life.
I wonder how many presidents have been in jail before their presidencies?
I know W. Bush got a DUI, I assume he spent a night in jail? (too lazy to google). I think most of the founding fathers were indicted by the British for treason but I don't know if any were ever arrested and jailed. Grant was kind of a drunken fuck up for a while too, dunno if he ever went to jail. Other early presidents I think engaged in unlawful duels.
Someone trolling these intelligence agencies for immunity like that raises the hairs on the back of my neck and makes me think there's fire behind all the smoke.
Hopefully, a real investigation will occur but I'm not too optimistic with the GOP running the show. They'll find a way to give him the Ollie North treatment too, just watch.
"No reasonable person, who has the benefit of advice from counsel, would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized, witch-hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution"
Per the NYT:
"It is common for witnesses to demand immunity in exchange for their testimony to ensure that their words cannot be used to prosecute them. Under federal law, Congress can grant witnesses immunity for their testimony, but lawmakers normally do so only after consulting with prosecutors."
"âAt this early stage, I wouldnât read anything into this request beyond smart lawyering,â said Mark Zaid, a Washington lawyer who specializes in national security cases. âIn such a politically charged, high-profile national security case, I couldnât imagine not first asking for immunity.â
The title of the article might as well say "This is a Big Fucking Deal: Homeless take over Seattle - Mayor wants more tax money". It pretty much has the same effect.
What we'll see when/if he testifies before a GOP-controlled committee is that he's a crazy, stupid asshat who had no business being anything above Corporal, let alone near the levers of Power. He believes utter bullshit, like every other Deplorable.
1. Yes, Flynn's pension - that of a 3-star general -
is in jeopardy. Unlike the majority of Team Trump players, he's not independently wealthy, doesn't have a long personal history with the boss, and is still smarting from being tossed under the bus. Of course he'll flip.
2. He's seeking immunity via the DOJ, not Congress. This is good. DOJ lawyers aren't suckers.
3. The interesting question now is whether DOJ actually grants his request for Immunity, vs passing up the offer. As I said, FBI/DOJ NatSec folks aren't suckers. They will only take the deal if he promises to deliver them some bigger fish. If they pass, that's a signal that all Flynn had to offer was small-time fall guys - think Manafort, Page, maybe Kushner. But if DOJ makes the deal, it's because Flynn brought them somebody bigger than a retired 3-star general/former national security advisor. That would have to be Sessions, Pence, or even the big cheeto himself.
@21 I've only got two words for that; Oliver North.
Prediction. Flynn will be given immunity because no one can be arsed to look up Iran Contra. Like North, Flynn with give us exactly nothing we don't already know. Flynn will not spend a day in jail or even be found guilty of any crime or misdemeanor. None of the low level people he fingers will either. Trump will come out of it, like Reagan did, without a scratch. Congress, especially Democrats will, as they always do, royally screw up the entire process and will look like the fools they are.
If the DOJ were under the leadership of almost anyone but its current director, I might dispute your last assertion. I'd rather see him squirm on the hook for awhile, sweat off a couple dozen pounds waiting for a response, and in the end NOT receive immunity. To my mind that would put him in even more of a precarious situation, because if he pleads the 5th, he LOOKS guilty by inference. If he spills his guts he'll still serve his time, or if he lies his ass off, he'll get nailed on a perjury charge in addition to everything else, and basically spend the rest of his retirement in a federal prison, although it'll probably end up being a cushy stretch in a "Club Fed" level institution.
Personally, I would be good with either of those scenarios.
This is so sweet, watching hope spring eternally in the red breasts of Lefties. Trump isn't getting impeached, period, and the reason(s) behind Flynn's wanting immunity may not be quite what you pictured. The false and hard-driven narrative about Trump/Russians pushed by the media in the absence of any evidence may well backfire. I may be as partisan as the rest of you yet I follow this sort of thing deeply, having worked in this field for years. I am no sage but will predict this entire made up narrative will turn out to have an unexpected follow-through. You heard it here first.
Investigators may want to learn more before giving him immunity...
There may be someone down the food chain who will 'turn' and convince Flynn, for example, to testify with only 2 years of prison...just an example.
Flynn's crimes MAY be too serious to be given complete immunity.
Whoa. There was an awesome Onion headline the other day, something like âMysterious Circumstances Now Leading Cause of Death in Russia.â
Diplomat goes flying off a roof: âEet vuz haht uhtek,â they shrug.
Yeah, no matter how insane the treasonous corruption, the RepubliKKKans will brand him a turboheropatriot for AMERIKKKA, and he'll be given a book deal, a radio show, and right-wing celebrity status for life.
NO DEALS.
I wonder how many presidents have been in jail before their presidencies?
I know W. Bush got a DUI, I assume he spent a night in jail? (too lazy to google). I think most of the founding fathers were indicted by the British for treason but I don't know if any were ever arrested and jailed. Grant was kind of a drunken fuck up for a while too, dunno if he ever went to jail. Other early presidents I think engaged in unlawful duels.
It'd be interesting to find the stats on that.
Hopefully, a real investigation will occur but I'm not too optimistic with the GOP running the show. They'll find a way to give him the Ollie North treatment too, just watch.
"No reasonable person, who has the benefit of advice from counsel, would submit to questioning in such a highly politicized, witch-hunt environment without assurances against unfair prosecution"
Per the NYT:
"It is common for witnesses to demand immunity in exchange for their testimony to ensure that their words cannot be used to prosecute them. Under federal law, Congress can grant witnesses immunity for their testimony, but lawmakers normally do so only after consulting with prosecutors."
"âAt this early stage, I wouldnât read anything into this request beyond smart lawyering,â said Mark Zaid, a Washington lawyer who specializes in national security cases. âIn such a politically charged, high-profile national security case, I couldnât imagine not first asking for immunity.â
Anyway I doubt the FBI, the DOJ or the Senate will give Flynn immunity, when he is the center of a criminal investigation..
What we'll see when/if he testifies before a GOP-controlled committee is that he's a crazy, stupid asshat who had no business being anything above Corporal, let alone near the levers of Power. He believes utter bullshit, like every other Deplorable.
1. Yes, Flynn's pension - that of a 3-star general -
is in jeopardy. Unlike the majority of Team Trump players, he's not independently wealthy, doesn't have a long personal history with the boss, and is still smarting from being tossed under the bus. Of course he'll flip.
2. He's seeking immunity via the DOJ, not Congress. This is good. DOJ lawyers aren't suckers.
3. The interesting question now is whether DOJ actually grants his request for Immunity, vs passing up the offer. As I said, FBI/DOJ NatSec folks aren't suckers. They will only take the deal if he promises to deliver them some bigger fish. If they pass, that's a signal that all Flynn had to offer was small-time fall guys - think Manafort, Page, maybe Kushner. But if DOJ makes the deal, it's because Flynn brought them somebody bigger than a retired 3-star general/former national security advisor. That would have to be Sessions, Pence, or even the big cheeto himself.
Prediction. Flynn will be given immunity because no one can be arsed to look up Iran Contra. Like North, Flynn with give us exactly nothing we don't already know. Flynn will not spend a day in jail or even be found guilty of any crime or misdemeanor. None of the low level people he fingers will either. Trump will come out of it, like Reagan did, without a scratch. Congress, especially Democrats will, as they always do, royally screw up the entire process and will look like the fools they are.
If the DOJ were under the leadership of almost anyone but its current director, I might dispute your last assertion. I'd rather see him squirm on the hook for awhile, sweat off a couple dozen pounds waiting for a response, and in the end NOT receive immunity. To my mind that would put him in even more of a precarious situation, because if he pleads the 5th, he LOOKS guilty by inference. If he spills his guts he'll still serve his time, or if he lies his ass off, he'll get nailed on a perjury charge in addition to everything else, and basically spend the rest of his retirement in a federal prison, although it'll probably end up being a cushy stretch in a "Club Fed" level institution.
Personally, I would be good with either of those scenarios.