Savage Love Letter of the Day: Guy Willing to Abandon His Fetish in the Name of Love, Girl Suspicious

Comments

1
Good answer, Dan. But my money's on him not being able to give these kinks/interests up, even if right now he thinks he can. We kinda are what we are.
2
The short answer is yes, of course he can do it. Millions and Zillions of people give up their extramarital sex desires or other kinks. Dan's been on a relatively high "sex is super important in relationships" kick recently; i think Dan deserves credit for being kind of a driver on this issue for at least 20 years now, but I suspect he's over-valuing the value of sex in a relationship presently. It is important. It is *not* the most important. It's probably the 4th or 5th most important thing (basic chemistry, children preferences, finances, and maybe something else ranking higher). There's a non-zero chance you'll have a different opinion on being hotwifed after being together for 5 years or something and your 1-on-1 sex frequency simmers down and is less exciting.
3
Alright, here's what jumped out at me:

"Our sex was good, but he had a fetish where he wanted me to sleep with other guys (with or without him being there, whether secretly or openly)."

Here's the potential beauty of this little kink- there is actually no reason for your boyfriend to know if you really are sleeping with other guys or not since he doesn't require being there or having full disclosure.

So what I advise is reading the last paragraph in Dan's response again carefully and thinking about it. Your guy is into this. Are you OK with him being into this? (Which is a different question than whether or not you are willing to do it yourself or whether or not he can be happy with you if you aren't into this). Then, if your answer is, yes you are fine with him being into this but you just don't want to sleep with other men, then how about seeing if you can accommodate it in a compromising way? The trick to making it work is you two set clear boundaries about what you are allowed to do or not (and yours would definitely include him not being able to arrange hook ups for you or expecting you to sleep with anyone he knows etc) and you make sure he is OK with you not being completely honest with him so long as it is within these boundaries so that he knows there is fantasy involved. Then you are free to spin him all sorts of tales of how 'slutty' you are, even if you aren't fucking anyone else. And he'll never know the difference (so long as he's cool with never knowing the difference).

Little bonus on top is that if you do end up wanting to hook up with someone else within those agreed upon boundaries (as Dan says, people do change) then you can do that too. If no, then you can just keep telling your man fantasies.

4
Hey Dan. You're a guy with morals. How about using your influence to get Native Advertising the fuck off Slog? I mean wtf
5
@3: Interesting idea...
6
I'm generally not effusive with praise, but this answer hit all great points about which IDK should think.

I would emphasize that IDK will need to accept that her boyfriend, and possible husband, will be actively consuming porn / erotica around these fantasies as a means of an outlet for his sexual interests. If IDK cannot wrap her head around his satisfying his erotic fantasies in this way, then she should not agree to get back together.

I'm hard pressed to believe that a man who not only expressed this interest, but explored with his partner and would have continued to do so, can entirely cabin this aspect of his sexual identity. This is a particularly potent fantasy, which makes it unlikely that he will not incorporate it at all in his erotic life.

And it's worth IDK's time to consider that who are and what we want at 29 is different than who we will be and what we want 15 or 20 years down the road. That vanilla guy she marries at 29 might be a kinkster at 45, or she herself might find that sex with other men is of interest at 40, even if it isn't now.
7
Sublime, Let's keep in mind that the girlfriend was actually happy to go along with this kink for a short time during which she says she had fun but realized it's not what she wants long term in a serious relationship which makes her sound both very open minded sexually as well as self-aware. I don't think there is any indication that she would be unable to "wrap her head around" a man liking porn.
8
"I'll change a basic part of my personality into what you want me to be."
Hmmmm. Basis for a lasting relationship?
Could be.. When I was younger I was way more into risky/thrilling stuff like freestyle rock climbing, jumping off bridges, etc, but A) kind of got that out of my system, and B) Couldn't/Wouldn't do some of the more physical stuff now even if I wanted to. That's OK, been there done that, now I've replaced that stuff with other fun things. Question is, can your guy do the same? Therein lies the rub.
9
@7/EmmaLiz: I didn't mean the watching of porn per se, rather that he would be indulging in viewing and/or reading about this particular kink. In other words, IDK should not assume that her potential boyfriend / husband, is backsliding on his commitment with respect to foregoing this kink within their relationship simply because he continues to engage with this material. As I meant to convey above, I think IDK will need to give Mr. IDK the space explore this kink, because if she sets a requirement that dating / marriage means not indulging in any way, Mr. IDK is probably not going to be able to honor such a commitment. And IDK should enter the relationship with eyes wide open.

I also agree with you that IDK was more than GGG in her willingness to explore this kink. That may very well be the reason that Mr. IDK recognizes that IDK is a keeper, even if she does not want to further explore his kink. If Mr. IDK is as self-aware as IDK, than he recognizes that finding a partner who is willing to explore his kink is low, and that finding a woman who was at least willing to give it a shot without shaming or rejecting him outright makes her a great catch for him.
10
There's few Dan go to's that irk me and this whole settling for/ rounding up to a 10 thing is one of em.
If you 'settle for' someone, guess what, you'll never meet (or reduce your chances of meeting) your perfect partner.
11
🌈 No. How many relationships do we read about where the sex was incompatible at the beginning and it never got any better. Why does this man want to deny a whole chunk of his erotic life. And why is the LW thinking to go back with a guy who took her way off her preferred path.
12
Jodo @10 - ...And if you DON'T 'settle for' someone, guess what, you may spend the rest of your life searching unsuccessfully for that perfect partner. Because ideal partners don't exist outside the pages of romance novels, and anyone who claims to be with their ideal, couldn't-be-better mate is intentionally wearing rose-colored glasses or blinders or both.

Speaking of which, wasn't the subject of this letter remarkably similar to the "50 Shades of Grey" sequels? Granted it was about Christian sacrificing his strong BDSM kink for true love rather than a hotwifing kink, but still. The series had a happy ending, for those who lacked the intestinal fortitude to plow through the abysmal writing. (After finishing the first book, hoping on every page to find out what other people thought was so great about it, I gave up and just read the summaries of the sequels on Wiki.) So there ya go!

But back to the letter at hand: I agree with Dan and most posters that BF can absolutely decide that a long-term relationship with IDK is totally worth giving up some of his more kinky desires, at least in terms of physically sharing IDK with other men in real life. (What he does in private, as long as it meets the terms of their relationship contract, is his own business.) And at any time IDK wants to spice things up in the bedroom, she can murmur, "Shall I tell you about what I may or may not have done yesterday afternoon with the mailman/my co-worker/the gym teacher at Johnny's school?"
13
Creative solution, EmmaLiz @3!
14
Why not just talk to him LW? Why not tell him straight up that you don't plan on fucking other guys while your with him, but you have no problem with him watching porn/fantasizing/reading terrible kindle books about it.

Dan brings up a good point that if he's on the level you have to accept that and not freak out over the idea that he might be fantasizing about something your not into.
15
This whole story is 1 year in duration. Not enough time for him to "get it out of his system". Not enough time for her to know him well enough to commit to anything. Maybe at 29 she feels rushed to settle down? Clock ticking? Probably not a good enough reason. IDK should trust her gut feelings. I think they are telling her to take a pass, or she wouldn't have written the letter.
16
Sometimes ideas and fantasies are better than reality of actually executing them. There's the popular use of "fetish" and there's actually NEEDING a particular act or scenario to be satisfied, and there's no firm evidence that it's the latter and not the former. If it worked beyond that, he seems sincere, and there's no weird vibes, why not?
17
@4: What, exactly?
18
EmmaLiz @3 said what I was going to say. Just try fantasy sluttiness and see if it works for him. Tell him about all the group sex you're having with total strangers, how you've fucked half your co-workers, etc. while you're having sex. Make the stories extreme enough that he'll know they're fake, but you probably don't need to TELL him they're fake. Let him enjoy the illusion. It may well work for him.
19
@3: In a similar relationship, and that's almost exactly what I do (only my S.O. knows it's all pretend). It works quite well for both of us
20
@12 I omitted saying this in my comment cos I knew someone would say 'but they don't exist'. I've got him. The perfect partner. Certainly the perfect guy for me.
Don't settle for anyone. It's not fair on them. The next person they meet could be their perfect partner.
21
Jodo @20 Congratulations on finding and keeping the "perfect" guy for you. But surely there is some very minor flaw in your guy that you would change, some particular quirk or habit or physical characteristic, if you could wave a magic wand and everything else in your relationship would stay just as good as it is now...? Because otherwise you are both truly exceptional in human terms - grass is always greener, and all that.

I totally agree that no one should settle for someone who fails to measure up to their most important standards, or who doesn't personally "click" in a way that will sustain a committed relationship long after the new-sex exuberance wears off. As you say, that's not fair to either person. But what if you meet someone who pushes all of your primary love and compatibility buttons, except for their turquoise-streaked hair? Except that they like liver, which you hate? Except that they have an inexplicable love of ABBA, and actually own a CD of the Mamma Mia movie? Extrapolate these minor differences of individual taste and preference into the sexual realm, and that's what Dan means by "No settling down, without settling for."
22
@21 Hey, thanks.
I think we're moving away from the original premise a bit or splitting hairs or something, lol.
Dan's waaay off on things sometimes either here or on the Lovecast so as a new contributer I'm looking forward to calling him out.
23
In this situation, "being slutty" refers to you sleeping with other people, which is only subjectively slutty.

What sort of conduct would be classified as "objectively" slutty?
24
Great advice from Dan. My first thought was also that she could make up Sheherazade-like stories of exploits with other men (and/or women) and that would satisfy his kink without her actually having to fuck other people. And bonus, if three or five years from now she meets some other guy she'd like to bang, she can go ahead and do it!

Jodo @20: Good for you. That makes the number of people in this world who have found their "perfect" partner exactly two. Or one. How do you know Mr Perfect isn't rounding you up?

David JW @23: My understanding is that the objective definition of a slut is "someone who has sex with more people than you." (J/K)
25
Jodo I don't like the term 'settling' I think it's more acceptance. Acceptance that the perfect relationship doesn't exist because perfect people don't exist. And someone you love dearly is going to have flaws and make mistakes, just like you have flaws and make mistakes.

'Perfection' is a lot to ask of someone. Doing that strips away their humanity and never lets them be weak or have a bad day. It insists they always be on all the time, and be willing to look after you but to never receive that attention in return.

I can understand why so many people can't or won't do it.
26
Add me to the @3 and @18 list. Once a week week she has a secret slut sex night that she tells him about. In reality, she goes to her knitting circle. Only problem is hiding the home made sweaters.
27
I'm liking my own idea more and more as a sitcom. Husband insists IDK has sex with other men. IDK makes up tall tales about her exploits. Hilarity ensues when Niece thanks Aunt IDK for the gorgeous alpaca sweater within her husband's earshot.
28
Fichu @27, too funny! If I were a big-shot Hollywood network mogul, I'd ask you to write up a script for the pilot episode so I could shop it around and get it green-lighted.
29
I like slutty women but the thing I realized is that I like lack of sexual inhibition the most and there's nothing that signals that more than sleeping with multiple dudes (at the same time) to me but...

that's not something you foist on another person with their own desires and whatnot. And it's not even something you need to experience outside of porn.
30
@19 Yes I was for years as well except it was the other way around. There are some experiences that I know for sure he made up. There are some experiences that I know for sure were real. But the majority of them, honestly I have no idea what really happened and what was pure fantasy and what was embellishment. It's a slightly different kink since part of the excitement is the uncertainty (within agreed upon boundaries) but it might work for them as a sort of compromise.

But what to do with the sweaters? That's the problem with spinning too many yarns. It would be a hilarious sitcom. Or if she uses the time to learn a new language. She starts speaking Italian in her sleep, ha ha.
31
I think vanilla people are often insecure about relationships with kinky people because they think they aren't enough for them. They don't understand how someone can like the as a person and also depend on a fantasy that has nothing to do with who they really are. Yet for the kinky guy, finding that ideal girl who is a complete slut but also compatible with him in every other way is extremely difficult or impossible, so he's probably perfectly happy to find a girl who is vanilla and open minded. It's not her job to be the ideal girlfriend and it doesn't mean their relationship is unsatisfying.
32
@24: I use an iteration of that where it's defined as someone who has sex with "others" who aren't the dirtbag. They can even have sex with more people, but as soon as they say no, suddenly the woman is wanton and depraved. That this is totally counter to the claim will never enter the head of the "nice guy", because how dare she.
33
The fascinating/horrifying thing there is that the freedom that defines sluthood is not TO have sex.

It's the ability to be selective about partners and say no.

Similar to the sort of hippie ideal of "free love", women on communes were expected to be less discriminating and freely giving.
34
what number 1 said and what number 33 said. This isnt like "I really like red heads". this is like "I am wired for this". Its up to you if you want to take that on.
35
EmmaLiz@30 ~ Each sweater would be designed/knitted in accordance with its corresponding story, and then donated anonymously to a convent as a sort of penance. The unsuspecting nuns would only find out the truth behind their toasty attire in the series finale.
36
@34: "This isnt like "I really like red heads". this is like "I am wired for this"."

I don't know if that's consistently true, I would imagine there's a spectrum of:

that sounds fun? -> this is hot! -> I need this in my life to feel satisfied.

And a person may not necessarily have the traditionally understood fixation, or it may not remain static over the years. It's not impossible for him to be sincere in what/who he's looking for without suppressing past interests or how he defines himself.
37
IDK describes her ex's fetish as Basically, he gets off on a girl being a "slut."

Fucking other guys/having group sex may not be the only way IDK can satisfy Mr IDK's desire for a "slutty" woman. As mentioned, she could make up stories of sexual exploits which didn't actually happen, or that did happen with exes. She could also talk dirty to him about things she'd like to do to other guys. (For instance, they go to a coffee shop and she tells him that the barista is hot and she'd like to take him into the back room and suck his cock right now. She has no actual desire to suck his cock, but Mr IDK would be really turned on by that, I'm sure.) Or they could go to clubs, she could wear skimpy outfits and flirt with other men while he observes. This has the unfortunate downside of frustrating the other men, but plenty of women go out flirting without intent for no purpose but stroking their own egos or scamming free drinks. Perhaps Mr IDK could buy these guys beers as a goodwill gesture, before taking his "slutty" girlfriend home.
38
Well said, undead @36.