Caelan Conrad On Obvious Queers and Missing Points

Comments

1
TLDR
2
jesus fucking CHRIST get a blog. These Twitter "threads" are unbearable to read.
3
The first few tweets were great, but I don't get Twitter format. You have to keep scrolling toes it sentence by sentence in a bunch of separate boxes- why not just cut and paste it into a paragraph that is easy to read?

Anyway, I think he's making the same point that I make when women tell me "I'm not a feminist but..." or "I believe in equal rights for women but I wouldn't call myself a feminist..." etc.

I think it's going to be worse with wealthier and white gay men. The only thing making many of them have any awareness of inequality or difference was their sexuality- as that is more and more normal and accepted, they will have no reason to reflect on their or others' place in society. I think we are already seeing this now with younger guys- the visible presence of gay men in the alt right for example and the prominent role of assholes like Thiel in Trump's campaign.
4
@3 I was wondering how long it would take this thread to take a shit on men. Only took three comments.
5
Um, Time Lord, it is a Twitter storm criticizing gay men who criticize other gay men and who seem to lack acknowledgement of the role that openly and obviously gay men played in making gay men accepted in society. So yea, you clicked on a comment section that will be critical of men. However, if you bother to read what I said and not what you are looking for, you'll see that I'm also criticizing women who do the same thing (re: feminism). The point here is people who benefit from the mainstream acceptance and equality without acknowledging or reflecting on how they got that acceptance and equality and while criticising the very people who were leaders in them getting it. This includes women and gay men (not straight men as they never lacked it and not nonbinary people as they still don't have it).
6
Can we have a $100 million startup that pastes tweets together plz?
7
@6,

I'd prefer a $100 million startup that destroys Twitter and removes it from our lives completely.
8
It misses out on how persons like Raindrop are willing to tolerate hatred because they think their taxes will go down.
9
@4: The issue is tolerating hatemongers, and there's no Ann Coulter of lesbians propped up as high as Milo. You are intentionally missing the point.
10
"I think it's going to be worse with wealthier and white gay men. The only thing making many of them have any awareness of inequality or difference was their sexuality- as that is more and more normal and accepted, they will have no reason to reflect on their or others' place in society. I think we are already seeing this now with younger guys- the visible presence of gay men in the alt right for example and the prominent role of assholes like Thiel in Trump's campaign. "

yeah...this is taking a shit on gay men..specifically white gay men. It's almost racist.
11
|"musc" and "masc"

Are these terms actually used? They seem so cumbersome to actually pronounce.

Otherwise, he made a lot of good points.
12
Dan's final comment is spot-on. The reason there's a stereotype of gay men being hairdressers and florists is because guys who were naturally too effeminate to ever pass had no other choice. In an era where EVERY corporation would fire you for being gay, anyone who was outed (like through police raids for same-sex dancing in a bar, where the police would personally call your boss) would be fired, and anyone too effeminate to successfully pretend to be closeted wouldn't be hired in the first place. Those guys needed a job where they were their own boss and couldn't be fired, and that meant being a small businessman. And often that meant gravitating to a small business profession where the clientele tittered about that witty man and didn't expect him to be masculine -- so plumbers were out. Tons of gay men still worked in corporate professions and "masculine" jobs, but only if they passed and remained closeted to most, and therefore didn't contribute to stereotypes because they were invisible.

As a result, it was the effeminate guys who advanced the movement because they were the ones through necessity who were out, willing to be seen at gay establishments, and couldn't be fired for sticking up for themselves.

I came out in the late 80s and things were already so different than for older relatives of mine, many of whom never "officially" came out. Thirty years later, things are so different than when I came out, but that difference is nothing compared to 30 years before me when it was essentially illegal to be out.
13
Time Lord, Did you read the twitter storm? It is specifically criticizing gay men. Was I supposed to come on here and talk about ponies? I pointed out that this is something women do too (re: feminism) . As for racism, yes it's something some black people do as well (there's even a term for it, Uncle Sams). And now gay men, the latest group to receive widespread acceptance in the halls of power, are doing it as well. Peter Thiel and the other log cabin repubs (and worse, Milo and the other queer alt right thugs) are the Phyllis Schaflys and Clarence Thomases of their time. And yes, specifically white wealthier gay men. When was the last time you looked at the demographics of Log Cabin Repubs? They generally are not a group of working class gay men of color, you know. It's directly relevant to the Twitter storm we are supposed to be discussing. A couple generation ago, those same white wealthy gay men who might choose to be Log Cabin Republicans today would be left to die by the very people in the party they belong to today. Once you remove that oppression, a small minority of them will join forces with power to oppress others b/c it doesn't affect them anymore and they don't see why being gay is any big deal in the first place (since it's so accepted now).
14
I don't have any problem with what the tweets were saying, but what an annoying format to choose. But I suppose it gets attention that way, just like Trump's.
15
@11: Much communication these days goes on the internet, expect some lazy abbreviations.
16
"the rising up and rebelling against that oppression, and the feeling of pride you earned- by being who you are, that's not a negative trait"

Ok, I understand that twitter is slightly annoying, but can we also talk about how much I loved this section? I was in a somewhat abusive-ish situation when I was younger (it wasn't the worst thing in the world, but they were really controlling/manipulative etc). I didn't even realize I was gay until my early 20's, when that person was no longer a part of my life, and I had the space to explore and just feel comfortable existing as myself.

I realize that this isn't everyone's experience, but those two things happened during the same time of my life, and for me the feeling of autonomy and personal freedom is inextricably tied up with my queerness.

I don't think my sexuality makes me inherently better than someone who is straight, but honestly if I was given the choice, I still would choose to be gay. Yes, I know that being gay in this world has caused people immense hardship in their lives that they should never have had to endure, and I don't make light in that of the slightest. Honestly, I'm just lucky to have been born in the time and place that I was, because that just as easily could have been me too. But if somebody else or society at large has a problem with my being queer, as far as how that makes me feel about myself, that's their problem, not mine. I understand that people have different experiences and perspectives in their lives, but as far as I'm concerned, being queer helps me find the space to be myself, and it's made me more empathetic of others. These are things that I value and wouldn't change about myself. And yes, I'm proud of that.