Charleena Lyles, Victim of SPD Shooting, Remembered as “Life of the Party”

Comments

3
This is the flip side of "[He] was no angel".

Not sure I see the point. This was someone who possibly was suiciding by cop. Not even an all-black civilian review board would suggest improper use of force in this case.

This is a weak-ass martyr.
4
Why would a pregnant woman with children commit suicide by cop? Quit jumping to conclusions and the Seattle PD need to be held accountable.

5
Well the first question that i have is why didn't they just use a taser? I thought after the John T Williams incident, Seattle PD were changing the way they handle encounters where guns weren't used.
6
First, Charleena Lyles isn't a victim.

Her actions, regrettable as they were caused this entire horrid affair and ultimately resulted in her unnecessary death.

This is a terrible, tragic and dreadful affair brought on by multiple factors....from failure of DSHS and the myriad of other government (non police agencies) who are charged with helping people like Ms Lyles.

What in the world is a mentally deranged person, wielding a knife doing with three children doing unsupervised in an apartment after repeated domestic disturbances.

I think the social work case supervisor should be brought in to answer this question.

I wonder, what public opinion might have been had Ms Lyles simply closed the door, knife in hand and murdered the innocent children in the apartment while the police tried to talk her down. .

7
@4 the same reasons anyone else would. Listen to the tape, draw your own conclusion. I did.
8
@5 Tasers are unreliable and are not generally used against armed assailants.
9
Well I feel protected and served now that a petite, pregnant female, with what may very well have been a big mouth, is terminated with prejudice. All of Seattle is safer. It took two cops but now that threat is neutral!
10
RIP Ms Lyles. May she and her family get justice.
11
The woman had KNOWN mental health issues. The cops had been to her house and threatened with scissors two weeks previous. They should have KNOWN she might present a threat and gone into this from that standpoint with cautious distance and ready to TAZE, not shoot to kill. This is clear incompetence on the part of people who are supposed to be specialists in deescalating this sort of thing short of killing. This is stupid incompetence that resulted in a death, some would say legal murder.
12
From the Times...
The audio, which was redacted in several places, includes two unidentified officers speaking about Lyles’ mental health and the June 5 incident before they confronted her on Sunday.
So the knew she was bat-shit crazy and just charged in anyway, guns-a-blazing... WOW.
13
@12 if you'd listened to the audio (which you haven't), they didn't "charge in". They spent (at least) 3:45 taking a calm, unremarkable, by the book account. You're being intentionally ignorant. Shame on you.
14
@6 and what if you went and knifed some children? We'd better kill you in case.

Do you have any reason to think she was a child-killer? Any history that she threatened them? Or because "she had mental health issues" which you like to call "deranged", and killing kids is what those people do?
15
any debate about level of force aside, this housing is managed and other services are provided - how is it that nobody was getting this woman mental help? birth control advice?
15
@2, anytime a cop tells you to do something you just do it. You don't mouth back at them (they have guns and in this town will shoot you for fun) you do as you are told to (remember, the SPD don't give a SHIT about your life) and after it's all said and done sue the fuckers.

17
Hey SPD: does it make you sad that Seattle isn't grateful for your service and sacrifice? Here's a suggestion: QUIT.

We aren't grateful. We don't appreciate you. Finally, something we agree on!

Take the hint. We don't want you here. Go somewhere where the public deserves your noble dedication to whatever the fuck it is you think you do.
18
The woman had KNOWN mental health issues. The cops had been to her house and threatened with scissors two weeks previous. They KNEW she might present a threat and gone into this from that standpoint with cautious distance and ready to TAZE, not shoot to kill. This is clear incompetence on the part of people who are supposed to be specialists in deescalating this sort of thing short of killing. This is stupid incompetence that resulted in a death, some would say legal murder.

From the Times...
The audio, which was redacted in several places, includes two unidentified officers speaking about Lyles’ mental health and the June 5 incident before they confronted her on Sunday.

So they knew she was bat-shit crazy and just charged in anyway, guns-a-blazing... WOW.
19
@13 but you have no problem believing after the 3:45 of calm responses from her, she in under 10 seconds brandished a knife in a threatening manner in an attempt to commit suicide by cops where 3 of her 4 children were currently at.

Without video, these two could have been robbing her as they yelled "GET BACK" for all any of you know. That is as equally feasible as any suicide-by-cop assumptions. Never mind that officers de-armed people with knives all the time, like they did with the guy waving a knife in downtown in March.

To everyone finding excuses for this, say what you mean, you absolutely refuse to believe/acknowledge that these men wouldn't have been quick to see this tiny woman as a threat if she were white (with or without a knife or mental health issues).
20
"Tasers are unreliable"

"Police are trained to shoot anyone with a knife from 21 feet"

Why? Who decides these are the rules? You know who? Cops made this shit up, to cover the asses of other cops. These are not scientific facts. Data don't support these made-up opinions. They're just ready-made excuses cops have decided they will have on hand to justify anything they do.

The Seattle taxpayer believes that deadly force should be a last resort. The Seattle taxpayer believes that non-lethal means should be at least tried before shooting. We believe you have to at least try to de-escalate before you use force. We believe the police don't have to "win" every confrontation. The police can just back down if it means nobody has to die. We actually believe this shit.

Our police do not believe these things. The SPD does not believe in de-escalation or choosing to walk away rather than use deadly force to come out "on top" every time.

This is an irreconcilable philosophical disconnect. They have one set of beliefs, and we have another. We can't force them to sit in a room for "training" to change their beliefs. They will always believe these things. Since they are incompatible with our values, they don't belong here. We should stop paying them. They should leave and find some other community to serve, if that's what you call what they do.

Why the hell would any cop even want to work for a city like Seattle that doesn't support the way they use force? A cop with an ounce of self respect wouldn't work one day for a city like Seattle. Cops need to decide. Their values or ours.
21
The audio seems to confirm she was a ticking time bomb and seemed to dare the cops to shoot her while holding a weapon. She isn't a victim but she is a tragedy. The knee jerk racist screamers need to find a better martyr.
23
@20 Actually these types of policies are formulated based on facts. You can see a couple of the data points here . . .

https://www.odmp.org/officer/14830-inves…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtALzvIm…
24
@17 You're wrong. We love our police force here. A few bad eggs in the bunch, like anywhere, and we all agree they should be rounded-up, no doubt. But for the most part, the people (the ones that aren't vagrants, criminals, malcontents and grievance addicts) are totally down with SPD. In fact, we'd like more of them!

Seattle Lefties in full desperation mode to pack everything into convenient racial injustice narrative.

Here's the deal. Just so anyone ELSE is wondering.

If you pull a weapon on a cop he has the right to defend his/herself. And he/she has the obligation to protect others in the vicinity.

So just in case you're wondering, and are trying to plan a weekend event with friends, cocktails and violent stupidity:

- You won't be tazed.
- You won't be rubber-bulleted.
- You won't be shot in the legs.
- You won't be shot once.

You WILL be shot, multiple times, body mass center, to be killed -- not wounded.

That's the law. That's how they're trained. That's how we keep everyone (else) safe. And we're fine with it.

So. It's official. Let's not have anyone further acting hurt, angry or surprised when they threaten a cop or others. You. Will. Be. Killed.

Its perfectly clear. Any questions? Okay.

The use of force policy is longstanding, common across departments, reasonable and regarded as the best most-case scenario. Enough with the butt-hurt.
25
@19 Have you ever heard of "Occam's Razor"? have you even listened to the tape? Shut the fuck up until then. Or wait until you graduate 5th grade. That the cops decided to murder her while robbing her a second time, while on tape, is an extraordinary claim. Suicide by cop, on the other hand, is not extraordinary. You're a dumb mother fucker if you ever imagined for more than 2 seconds that those were in any way "equally feasible"
26
We really, really need a police force that lives in Seattle proper. Yes, we'll give you a second mortgage so you can raise a family in a nice townhouse or apartment. That's where middle class people in big cities live--not in 3BR homes in a crappy tract development an hour and a half away from the place you are sworn to defend. We don't need an occupation force from Arlington, Puyallup or Maple Valley who think people of color are the enemy. If you think we're the enemy then stay the fuck away from our town. Be a cop in your own crackerville. Don't take advantage of the high wages generated by educated and worldly people here. Assholes.
27
Lyles is not the victim here. Here are the real victims:

1. The three children whom she forced to witness her suicide by cop.

2. Her fourth child and other family who mourn her, and who have retained an activist lawyer when they have no wrongful death case.

3. The two cops who now have to wake up every day and look in the mirror as killers because of someone else's actions.

4. The truth.
28
This young woman clearly had mental health issues, and it seems to me, it's no big deal for two trained police officers to either (a) talk her into putting the knife down, (b) getting the knife out of her hand, or (c) leaving the apartment altogether. After all, she is the one who called them to begin with - and concerning a burglary - and if she no longer wants them there, they should just reassure her that they're going - and leave.

Why in the world would they simply shoot her dead? It's horrifying.
29
@28 Another point to consider - since she is the one who initially called them - that, when she initially expressed concern about letting them in - they should have simply asked her if she'd (then) rather come out to discuss the burglary - and if she declined to do that, too, then offer to leave a business card in her door - if she'd like to come down to the station, instead, to file a report or complaint. Then leave the card, if she says "yes," and go. But go, regardless.

I mean, why are they staying around - or entering an apartment at all - if the person who called them has obviously changed their mind? It's unnecessarily escalating a situation.
30
Why are people defending a cops right to MURDER civilians. She was pregnant. That's f*cking disgusting that ANYONE would think this kind of behavior is in any way at okay. It's HORRID. This is disgusting that we've become accepting in any way.

Cops are here to protect and serve. But you all are defending the right to murder citizens...this is what is wrong. All the ridiculous apathy.

How would you feel if it happened to someone you loved? To a brother or sister or father or mother?

Where is the compassion..

Where is the respect for human life..

Why aren't you outraged..

Oh yeah, because you're sitting behind a screen..you're protected by all this facade. Separated emotionally. Lashing out against others when your own lives are the ones that need healing. Only those with deep issues and problems in their own lives..find reasons to hate against the lives of others

I urge most of the people on here..if you need to learn about compassion..seek therapy..it'll help
31
@29 Someone mentions coming ready to taze .. given the fact that she was pregnant, couldn't that cause a miscarriage or permanently harm the fetus? I think these tasers are pretty questionable things, too. They need better policies on them.
Again,as per my posts in 28 and 29, I think there are a lot of interpersonal options that are being completely ignored; the main one being that, she invited them - she changed her mind - so leave a card and go. Don't even enter the apt to begin with.
32
@23 The Ithaca police officer story is sad; didn't really follow what was going on in that other youtube, though. Suffice to say, yeah, I guess it's hard to judge with a knife - and if you're in an enclosed area like a small apartment. I've seen situations with distressed persons where it's relatively easy to disable someone with a knife - or just go away from them. And this if for people without the training that police officers have. On the other hand, I recall a martial artist once asserting (and I don't know if it's true) that a knife can sometimes be more dangerous than a gun if the person wielding it knows what they're doing.

It seems like some of this has to do with policies. Again, as I posted in 28, 29 and 31 - once she expressed any hesitation about letting them into the apartment - just leave a business card and go. If she changes her mind again, she can come down to the station and file a report or complaint (or whatever it's called for burglary).
33
I guess pepper spray could have worked here? Tasers are pretty iffy, IMO. You never know if someone has a certain health issue. Over and out, all.
34
@30 How would you feel if someone you loved was killed by a crazy person with a knife who the police had refused to confront because such an encounter might end with gunfire and then the pinko-left-wing media would start screaming about police brutality?
35
Why the hell does the audio recording go blank at THE crucial moment in the recording? You can justify this to your heart's content that it's about how dangerous she was. Fact of the matter she was likely into super-protective mode OVER her kids, not a threat TO them. What really transpired in those moments when the recording "drops out" and a conflict emerges?
36
@31 you know, I wondered about the pregnant/tazer thing, but guns are bad for unborn children as well, so that argument doesn't quite hold water. @32 It seems like you haven't heard the tape. While the officers were aware that this woman had a mental health and threatening of officers history, at the moment she was lucid and non-aggressive (to be honest I find her story a little weird, but what do I know). They were in the middle of taking a report - Lyles was describing what was stolen, from where, etc, when all the sudden things go from 0 to 60. You are suggesting that because they knew her history, that they should effectively not take her complaint. Lyles could readily have gone to the police station if she was wary about letting police on the premises. There was no sign she was acting agitated until the moment she pulled the kni[ves]. Like any other civilian, she had the right to report a crime and have an officer take the complaint. To suggest otherwise opens the door for significantly more massive imbalances in the level of police protection afforded to poor, black, or mentally ill populations which already struggle to be represented by the police.

@35 The audio goes blank when Lyles gives her full name, address, and phone number. It does not go blank at the "crucial moments". Also, neither option is "super likely". She apparently believed her daughters were werewolves. I don't know what that means w/r/t her being a danger to her children, but it remains the exact opposite of critical thinking to then say "well she was likely into super-protective mode". Your assertions seem more like intentional lies. I suppose those kids really are being abused in the pizza basement by Hillary & Co, maybe you can investigate that?

Everyone:

Please complete this sentence: "I think the police shot Lyles because ________________"