SCOOP, Charles, at this moment (soon to pass) you are the only one in Pugetopolis with this disturbing story,,,,

Eh. I've flown perhaps 100 times and never once seen a passenger removed; or someone playing music without headphones, or even more than momentary bouts of loudness. If someone were doing any of that and then refusing to pipe down, I wouldn't feel sad if they got booted. Your tipster writes "they were being young" as if that is acceptable behavior when you're strapped into a tiny tube with no legroom. Unless it's a crying baby, shut yur mouth and suffer in misery like everyone else.

I've seen a group of frat guys removed from a flight for a similar list of offenses. Get the fuck over it.

Mudede, this is a reach, even for you.

Sock puppets, everywhere...

Perhaps sexual harassment, like gentrification, is a thing that American black people simply can not do.

Once you understand the history of one of these things, of the way the thing (and the talking about the thing) has been used against black people in America, it no longer makes any sense at all to say a black person has done the thing.

The very act of putting the words next to each other erases all meaning.

All we know is bad behavior and lack of decorum, there's no account of any racist dialog. If they were kicked out for bad behavior, it would be immoral to say they were kicked out because of their race. If they were kicked out because of racism, we should expect a follow-up from an attorney representing the group that was kicked off, as well as other corroborating news reports that would give credence to what Charles has reported.

I don't know which version of this story is true. And neither do any of you. But it says a lot that so many of you can't admit that, and instead instantly jump to attack one side.

Slog needs to track these racist sock accounts better and block them.

Got video?

@10 goodness, why do you jump to needing explicit racist dialog and a provable cause of legal action?

The flight crew will say -- and probably feel -- that their professional judgment was these people were unsafe, because they were uncomfortable with them, because they were afraid of them. You think any white people might be less comfortable with black people maybe?

If hypothetically 20% of flight crews would have felt unsafe and escalated against these folks, but 10% of crews would if white kids had been doing the same activities, are you going to notice that, or look past it?

@11 not that Charles is a big "no rush to judgment" guy himself.

This sounds like the incident where the group of black women were kicked off a train in NAPA (a train purely meant for drinking wine and enjoying oneself) because white people thought they were being too loud. White people are so afraid of black people and/or hate black people so much that they will do anything to hurt them, in any way possible, punish them, in any way possible, when they are not behaving the way white people want. The women kicked off the train sued and won $11 Million. Airlines are out of control with removing paying customers whenever they feel like it for any or no reason at all. I hope these young people sue AA and I hope they win. I am so sick of this BS!!!

What caught my eye was actually my first thought. I worked in Alaska on a fishing boat. I had to fly back to Seattle from Dutch Harbor. Dutch Harbor airport is a tiny little airport and my flight wasn't for awhile. I don't drink but decided to go have a coke in the bar and wait my time out. The guys that were at the bar with me were getting drunk and loud. The time came for my flight and I went to board and every guy that was at the bar got denied boarding including me. It was due to drinking and being loud. I explained I had not had a drop of booze to drink but in their eyes I was "With that group" The guys had been drinking and after being out to sea for months were loud but not disrespectful or obnoxious. Just the fact they had been drinking and were loud got them and myself barred from that flight and were told the next one if we were seen in the bar or drinking.

They are damn strict about drinking and flying from fishing ports. But for them to have already been boarded and the plane brought back to the gate is a bit much, but I do understand.

They had probably come from a processing plant had a pocket full of money had not drank in months and got toasted and loud.

But in that case they should have never been allowed on the plane like happened to me.

Chances are they were warned before they boarded that they had to act right. That happens a lot too. It's due to the industry they and I happened to work in.

I can EASILY picture that being the issue more than race because in the industry you have the rainbow so large group of any race is not unusual because honestly for some reason up there I did notice that the different races a lot of the time kept to groups. It was never a racist thing at all either. Never saw any kind of racism up there but I was on boats not at the plants.

Drinking being loud and coming from the fishing industry will get you booted no matter your race or age.

It's understandable due to how drunk people tend to get after not having any booze for months then having that much money when you have access to a bar.

People over do it and the airlines know it and have zero tolerance for any type of acting up. A bunch of drunk guys throwing blows at 30,000 ft is not something they are willing to risk happening and that is understandable.

Large groups not allowed on flights happens A LOT. But don't think I have heard of them letting them board then pulling back in to throw them off. But as I said with the zero tolerance with people in the industry I completely understand it but dont think it was racial.

I wasn't drinking and wasn't part of the group that was, but I was denied boarding. So it's policy i'm assuming and has been for at least 20 years since it happened to me 20 years go.

@13: Stop extrapolating and pay attention to the facts. The captain made the decision based on their behavior, or based on their race. It was his decision alone.

It is far more plausible that he made the decision on behavior, as opposed to race.

The witness called the Alaska Airlines statement "bullshit," but did not contradict it in any way ("I did not hear it" does not mean it didn't happen). It's simple. If you don't want to fasten your seatbelt or do the rest of the things the flight crew tells you to do, then get the fuck off the plane. And if you make other people listen to your shitty, shitty music (all non-consensual music is shitty) then you are an asshole, and fuck you, get the fuck off the plane.

@14

I never saw the report that the women won their lawsuit. That's great!

Speaking of black joy, back probably in the late 90s I took a 194 from Seatac to Seattle that had a trio of black teenage girls in the back. They started singing in harmony (and they​ sounded ​beautiful), and then the driver, an older white woman, announced that singing was not allowed.

Everyone seems to be focused on the music and general loudness, but if the group was also refusing to comply by basic safety procedures (which they more or less agreed to abide by boarding the plane), that is much more cut and dry. If you won't follow safety procedures, you should not fly.

Also, the "inappropriate" comments made to the staff, which is usually sexual harassment when blandly phrased that way. Would that change anyone's opinion?

The witnesses story of "no way that happened, but here is why it happened" is not terribly convincing.

@18 This post comes just a couple of days after I was on a bus where the black youngish bus driver told the mixed group of teenagers in the back to turn down their music (incidentally, it was hip hop), which they started playing at moderate volume on kinda crappy speakers. They did, and the bus continued on.

There's a gap of respect between between being "joyful" and "obnoxious and invasive." I've no idea what happened on this flight, but nobody here does except the obnoxious writer who admits "they were being young." What the hell does that even mean?

@14 -- The women kicked off the train sued and won $11 Million.

Not exactly. They did sue, and the suit did ask for $11M, but the group settled out of court for an undisclosed amount.

Why is it OK to be obnoxious?

This is indeed a stretch

Man, in all these he said she said cases with questions of racial bias posted on the Stranger in recent weeks, I just can't fucking believe the amount of bald-faced racist commenters. It's more damning than the stories themselves, these people behind avatars jumping in with "yeah I believe the authorities - they/he/she deserved it." Did you worms spill over from the MyNortwest forums? Bored of no longer standing out of that sad cloistered for your Randian racism? It's too bad, I used to come to Slog comments for progressivism.

I've flown in and out and around Alaska several hundred times. Never seen anyone removed and the Prudhoe Bay boys can be pretty rowdy. Shit on regional flights to can bring a gun on the plane if you want.

This is very weak reporting.

I think people in Seattle and Alaska aren't used to the fact that black young people tend to be louder. I grew up in a black area and it was way, way louder than here. Black teenagers are not known for their quiet. Go to a horror movie in a black neighborhood sometime. It's just different (not bad). I think this is just a cultural thing.

@24 +1

@24: Oh, there's plenty of progressivism on Slog when there's actual racist incidents.

This is basically a ink stain story. In the absence of direct evidence people will see what they want in it. Like so many items if outrage these days, response is completely subjective and based on already held beliefs

This is basically an ink spot story. In the absence of direct evidence people will see what they want in it. Like so many items of outrage these days, response is completely subjective and based on already held beliefs.

@24, a fair chunk (not all) of the recent racist comments on multiple Slog threads come from accounts that are either already banned or ones with less than ten comments opened earlier this year. You can click on their names to get their post history and see who is a serious poster and who is just here to agitate.

@32

But there are outliers, such as raindrop.

I do think it's problematic if they punished the whole group for the behavior of a few bad apples, although I'd say people of all races have had to deal with that bullshit attitude at one time or another, particularly in environments that employ "zero tolerance" policies. But then you lost me.

Are you saying the entire notion of what comprises acceptable norms of public behavior--not to mention basic politeness--is inherently racist? I'm sorry, but if "black joy" involves playing loud music in a closed, inescapable space and refusing to follow normal safety procedures, then that's the only possible conclusion.

@34: Forcing your music on other people is basically just a form of non-violent aggression, regardless of who does it.

"I am here and all of you have to look at me and deal with me now."

It is basically just an attempt to assert dominance over an area. A very insecure act, if you ask me. Reminds me of those kids in school who would just act out to get attention.

Of course, people playing loud music at functions like parades, block parties, etc. are a different beast.

I'm not sure what happened here, but I have to note that @15 has a good point. Fisherman and processors are routinely denied boarding or removed from planes in Alaska. It's normally not newsworthy. Indeed, back in my day, it would actually be somewhat unusual not to have the pilot come on in the intercom at some point during the flight and threaten to divert to Cold Bay or some other backwater if everyone didn't shut up and sit down.

hbb, I have a friend who used to be a flight attendant for Alaska. In those days, the lower seniority FA's got the oddball flights to the fishing villages, and in some of those places the airline would drive the female employees to the motel and escort them to their rooms due to the overwhelmingly male population and the propensity towards violence and sexual aggression. They were only allowed to be alone in the privacy of their hotel room.

The only reason I can think of for tossing everyone in the group off the plane was because maybe they were under a group reservation being paid for by their company.

And still not even one more news outlet reporting this.

How pathetic he has to make up -- not just lazily misconstrue -- racism to make a blog deadline.

Would it be racist to make a "Soul Plane" reference?

@38, the male to female ratio in Alaska is 1.07:1. Where is this "overwhelmingly male population"?

Charles I'm sorry that the blackface puppet story didn't turn out to be the meal ticket you thought it would, but honestly how many of these Schrodinger's Racist stories must we endure this week?

@39,

He didn't make anything up, dumbshit. He reported on a couple of emails he sent & received. You're the one projecting here. Dumbshit.

It doesn't matter if the passengers were kicked off for their race. It doesn't matter if there were legitimate concerns, it doesn't matter if the passengers were innocent and did nothing wrong. If the pilot and the crew want you off their airplane, you have to comply. Once they close the doors to the gate, one is under federal jurisdiction, and the Pilot is the Captain of the Ship. If he or she doesn't like how you sneeze, they will turn around and kick you off, it is their prerogative as Captain of the plane.. It maybe unfair at time, and plenty of Arab and Near Eastern nationals were kicked off planes for no reason whatsoever after 9-11-01, but a pilot can refuse to fly anyone that a pilot doesn't want on their plane..

There can be a civil rights lawsuit, but a the plaintiff has to show a concrete pattern of discrimination by the pilot or the flight crew, and a defense "I don't like how the person looked or acted" would stand up in court or in a FAA hearing..

Libertine dear, my friend was a Flight Attendant with Alaska thirty years ago. I don't doubt her story. I do doubt that you've ever been to some of the remote parts of Alaska that Alaska Airlines flies to, however.

@42 That's an average, Anchorage is basically normal and evens the state out but go to King Salmon, Dutch Harbor or Prudhoe Bay and the ratios are way different.

@46 & 47, anecdotes do not statistics make.

@44 A 'journalist' (a'hem) a real journalist would call Alaska to verify. Alaska would confirm or deny, inviting two outcomes. Confirmation, of the huge risk of being caught lying. Corporations in the age of ubiquitous video nearly ALWAYS now confess early with contrition.

Muddled doesn't even TRY to do the basic job here. And given the lucrative nature of these things, it defies belief that not ONE of ELEVEN people hasn't found their way to social media yet.

Gullible much?

Libertine dear, this entire thread is about an anecdote.

The making of Soul Plane might be the worst thing that ever happened to black people on an airplane.

Snoop's acting chops are savage.

@50 (again with the belittling dear. Why must you use common Southern style backhanded insults? Do you think people don't know what you're doing?) the 10.7:1 ratio is not anecdotal. It comes from the US Census Bureau. The numbers go back over 30 years. It was a whopping 1.18:1 back then.

Statistics are not anecdotes. You are not the sole judge of the entire content of a story and its comments. You are also wrong.

Wow. The lack of journalistic integrity is amazing. It's like it gets worse with every new post.

Libertine dear, Ms. Vel-duRay may well be referring to small places like St. Paul, where several large fishing boats can easily double or triple the population. From working many years on boats in places like Kodiak, St. Paul, Dutch Harbor and other small places in Alaska, the crew of said boats are overwhelmingly male. So yes, a large, albeit temporary, group of people can tip the 10.7:1 ratio.

Yeah. I don't like it. Bad reporting. As if it's a blog comment. Fake news.

Oops, 1.07:1 ratio.decimal placement matters.

Libertine dear, I'm sorry that you are one of those tedious people who are insulted by my use of the word "dear". Every so often someone like you gets their shackles up about that, but it's never an insult, just an endearment. In any event, I have no intention of changing.

And I'm sorry that you feel the need to be insulted over a policy that Alaska Airlines had in place many years ago (and may still today) but it's plucky of you to get out your almanac and look things up.

Maybe what you should do is not look for insult in everything (which, admittedly, is a trend these days). You might actually find that you are happier.

These social misfits would be the first ones to seek a lawyer if they got hurt with no seat belts on. The Captain is within his rights to remove anyone if he believes safety is compromised. Good lesson for these kids

They were being disruptive and unruly; like undisciplined children. Behavior has consequences.

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