If finding a GYN, dentist, or even a hair stylist that is right for you can be challenging, if not sometimes impossible, finding a MH or sex therapist that is right for you might sometimes seem unsurmountable. Perhaps, the LW's therapist wasn't right for her? As Dan mentions, she might be asexual or graysexual or some other __sexual on the varied and myriad sexuality continuum. However, her mention that she considers herself to be a sexual person in private yet has a profound difficulty coming close to physical intimacy with others sounds as if she might have more to explore with a GGG MH or sex therapist.

While it's true that many therapists fail to keep up to date in their field, it's also possible that they've read exactly the article you linked to and have decided that, in their professional opinion, it fails to make its case due to it conflicting with other studies they've encountered.

Hey, what do I know. I'm not an expert.

Don't get me wrong: It's good to be on the right side of history, and I think we both agree on what side that is. I'm just being admittedly pedantic about how professionals professionally professionalize their profession.

1) Change therapists. 3 years is too long without progress.

2) I think Dan missed the mark here.. I read this letter as the most likely situation is LW is just extremely anxious about being physical intimate with someone. It's not that they don't want sex, it's just the prospect of actually having it with another person whose opinion LW seems concerned about can be overwhelming.

It's easy for those of us who have a lot of experience to forget how terrifying sex can be to someone who hadn't done it before.

If that's the case, just communicate that... A good partner will help you / assure you through it at a pace that works for you.

I wouldn't assume that someone who identifies as "sexual in private" would be asexual. Perhaps that a bad assumption, but that doesn't seem to be consistent with anything about asexuality that's been discussed in the column to date.

For some people, being naked and sexual with another person is a bit "scary" at first. That can be especially true if they had no sexual experiences at a time when their peers were equally inexperienced, and they don't feel confident about what they are doing in bed. Being shy, being (or feeling) less attractive, being less confident, being non-heterosexual (in a small community), or gender non-confirming (in a small community) can limit one's sexual experiences, which slows one's sexual development.

Dan charts one course of action, made up of lots of baby steps to a full-on sexual experience, but perhaps another way is letting LW's girlfriend take the lead (with the understanding that LW can slow or stop things) so that LW can see how things are done in practice and how things feel when someone touches her sexually.

@4: “I wouldn't assume that someone who identifies as "sexual in private" would be asexual. Perhaps that a bad assumption, but that doesn't seem to be consistent with anything about asexuality that's been discussed in the column to date.”

With herself, not with a partner.

sometimes it can be hard (ha!) to get/keep a boner if you're anxious. good think the LW doesn't have to - she just has to take a leap.

I think all and all Dan had a good answer. I agree that lots of therapists should keep up to date, but would still take an issue with ”… as many Savage Love letter-writers can confirm…”

As a Savage Love reader I sometimes encounter guest experts to be misleading or advancing their own agenda.
The latest appeared in last week’s weekly column: “…interaction between straight white men allows them to leverage whiteness and masculinity to authenticate their heterosexuality.”
This was part of an answer to a question dealing with a confession of a likely one timer whose race was never mentioned as it didn’t seem to be an issue.
Dr. Ley is still in a category of his own.

At 26 she is also, .... drum-roll..., YOUNG!

Hi LW, I had the same problem. Sex, and really intimacy in general, were rather frightening for me. I assure you that 26 is not too late - at 31 I consider those problems to be entirely over. I still don't know what caused my anxiety towards sex and intimacy, although I tried very hard for a few years to find out. What helped me was casual sex with people I never had to see again, increasing my emotional availability and openness to new experiences in general, learning how to be a more 'touchy-feely' person, being more vulnerable and intimate with friends, and, yes, in the end, finding a very patient and kind partner who I trust implicitly.

I highly recommend you tell your girl about your problem. It is absolutely not too late to learn how to be a good lover. You absolutely can go from being terrified about sex to being an ordinary sexual person. Don't doubt your instincts, but do investigate and challenge them. Best wishes, from someone who's been there <3

@5/undead ayn rand: “With herself, not with a partner.”

I got that she is sexual when she’s alone. I took that to mean she is masturbating while fantasizing about sex. My assumption, based on information published in the column to date, was that asexual people have no sexual impulses, including any interest in masturbation. I might go so far as to say that I would have assumed that by definition someone who enjoys masturbation is not asexual.

@10: “My assumption, based on information published in the column to date, was that asexual people have no sexual impulses, including any interest in masturbation”

I mean, I thought so too!

But I’ve seen someone use the “demisexual” tag for only feeling that way about partners?

It’s all so individual that I really have no clue that the natural state of a person is and what is the hurt/repressed/limited and ashamed/disgusted by other reasons. Especially if they’ve already been through 3 years of therapy.

I suppose the next step for her would be to find a sex-positive therapist who can help her figure out what she wants for herself, and why she’s so disgusted by external parties. Any guesses I’d have would be inappropriate, she needs more than an advice columnist to find comfort with her desired partner... or if she wants that form of comfort.

@10 and 11: Asexuality and masturbation can easily coexist. I think of asexuality as no interest in sex with other people or no sexual attraction to other people. Let's say you're not bi/pan/flexible/whatever. Now imagine sex with somebody of a gender you don't have sex with, it's lukewarm or neutral or irritating or gross or repulsive, right? Maybe that's what asexuality is like, with everybody.

Is masturbation socially sexual for everybody else, where you're fantasizing and imagining people and sexual scenarios involving yourself? For me at least half the times I'm focused on sensation only without any sort of fantasy, narrative, or sexual imagination involved.

@12: Thanks!

Reading the letter closely, I don't know Dan gets "revulsion" or "trauma" or "asexual" from this. She could simply be a person who needs to take time and get to know someone before being intimate. I know that's considered old-fashioned these days.

LW, as someone for whom talk therapy failed, and considering your feelings of "terror", you might like to look into finding a psychologist who is trained in Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing, EMDR. It has a strong history of use with post-traumatic stress issues, is used by various armed forces, and it changed the emo game for me.

You don't need to understand an issue to dramatically decrease anxiety around it. I went from obsessing about a situation (for years!) to simply not giving a fancy fandangle -- overnight, when sustained talk therapy did squat. It might not change your desire to have sex with this person, but you probably wouldn't feel so conflicted and stressed about it either way.

Biggie @3: I read the letter the same way you did. The word "terrified" suggested not lack of interest, but extreme anxiety around getting sexually involved. Is it the sex itself or the fact that having sex signifies (to her, possibly) that a relationship has gotten serious, and she's therefore at risk of getting hurt emotionally?

Max @6: She doesn't have to get hard, but she does have to get wet, otherwise sex can be painful. This could be contributing to her fear.

Sublime @10: Based on my limited experience, asexuals do masturbate. Some have fetishes that have nothing to do with other people's genitals, which are the bit about sex they find unappealing. Anky makes a good point @12 about fantasies and their not being completely necessary for "release" type masturbation.

Raindrop @8: I didn't have sex with a woman (though I did have sex with men) until I was 26. It could just be that she feels she's too late a bloomer to be sexually adequate -- a fear she can address, and a patient partner can help with.

I'm not sure I'd agree with "masturbate with your partner" as a first step. As we discovered in the weekly thread, most people are private about masturbation; I'd find it far more awkward to masturbate next to a partner than to, for instance, passively let her stimulate me. I do agree they should start slowly, but I reckon "start slowly" would consist of making out, breast play, dry humping aka "frotting". She definitely needs to tell the girlfriend what's going on. They could arrange to have extended makeout sessions with no sex expected; perhaps that would be less scary for DSA, and that would allow feelings of desire to surface.

"Asexuality doesn't have to be the answer. There could be some other issue: a past trauma, a low libido, an undiagnosed health issue."
Bravo Dan! I think considerations of asexuality should start with ruling out such medical and (particularly) psychological medical issues.

@14: “I know that's considered old-fashioned these days”

I don’t understand the smugness here, she has a real problem and has stated what you take issue with Dan somehow inventing.

“I’m terrified of physical intimacy”
...
“I hate making her feel bad when I telegraph my discomfort with her attempts to be physically affectionate.

I was in therapy for three years and I’m no closer to figuring this out than I was three years ago. Please help me, Dan. I need to know what’s wrong with me”

This is more than being whatever you think “old-fashioned” means. I would say that being so frightened of physical intimacy that you have only kissed three people in your life and recoiling at their very touch does not harken back to any folksy-charming but ultimately mythological time when anyone was “better off” for keeping themselves as sexually inexperienced for as long as possible.

She wants to figure out the divergence between what she wants (having that physical intimacy with a partner) and what she is capable of, the pace she’s moving at is as slow as can be, but she’s still not comfortable for whatever reason(s).

@12/Ankylosaurus: "Now imagine sex with somebody of a gender you don't have sex with, it's lukewarm or neutral or irritating or gross or repulsive, right? Maybe that's what asexuality is like, with everybody."

I think that there is a difference between "neutral" and "repulsive," and would have analogized asexuality as the equivalent of seeing a glass of water when you're not at all thirty. With your base urge to drink fully satisfied, seeing water induces no interest. So rather than inducing desire or revulsion I would assume that asexuals simply felt nothing. But if that understanding is wrong, it's wrong.

"Is masturbation socially sexual for everybody else, where you're fantasizing and imagining people and sexual scenarios involving yourself?" For me, yes, so that colors my perspective.

@16/BiDanFan adds that asexuals masturbate and/or have sexual fetishes that aren't focused on sex organs. That leads back to LW. What is she thinking about when masturbating. If it's never about sex with other people (as that might commonly be understood) then that would appear to be a good indication that she is asexual (we are defining that term). But if she is fantasizing about specific sex acts with specific fantasy people, then it would seem less likely that she is asexual.

Anyway, there seems to be more of a consensus that LW is nervous in the extreme and must be explicit with her girlfriend about what she is feeling, and might benefit from allowing her partner to stimulate her, as well as from a different form of therapy.

Yeah she could be asexual, but so much has been said about that already so I'm going to go with comments along the lines of some things BDF and Biggie said.

She's young, and she's stressed out about the fact that she doesn't have sex so much that she spent three years of her adult life in therapy discussing her anxiety around it. Sometimes focusing more on an issue can make it harder to turn off your mind, and if there's ever a time you want to be out of your head, it's when you are having sex. It's common enough for people who are virgins late in life to build up a lot of anxiety around it- some other letters here have been similar. Also as others have mentioned, some young people do feel a lot of stress around sex in the beginning because it IS stressful to manage those emotions, sensations and responsibilities. My guess is that it's more stressful for young women, and my second guess is that it would be more stressful for a young lesbian. Then the longer you go, anxiety builds up around it.

Also I wonder how useful therapy would be to someone without a partner at the time to practice with- she'd just be endlessly getting lost in her own head. Now that she has a partner (and a patient smart one) why not try something more specific and no pressure cuddling and petting if she can do that with the explicit understanding that it will not lead to sex this time, etc. Slowly easing into things step by step could help with anxiety because there is never pressure to do more, so you don't have to worry that a kiss will lead to something bigger- you are just in the moment. It would also help her get slowly used to intimacy and trust. I'm suggesting this because she said she's TERRIFIED of it, not that she finds it gross or just doesn't get what the big deal is or feels awkward- so my guess is that boundaries and control might help. It would also help her sort out what is going on. If she gets to a place where she's doing small specific things, she can look at how she feels about it- disinterest, awkwardness, anxiety, disgust, or hopefully pleasure- and then she can see if that feeling changes after a couple encounters, and that should tell her what she needs to know about herself.

And though I've said it before and it was an unpopular statement, therapy works far less often than it's made out to work. Most people receive no benefit from it and a small percentage of people are harmed by it. That's not to say it isn't life changing (in a good way) for a good chunk of people too, but it's something to keep in mind when we throw out the advice of "get therapy" to people.

Sublime @18: To clarify, I'm sure there are also some asexuals who don't masturbate. I don't want to be thought to be making a universal statement about a group of people, when I've personally met only a few of them and can't conclude they represent the whole group.

In so many other parts of life, we're encouraged, (rightly, I think) to push past our fears and anxieties that are keeping us from what we really want. Skydiving, public speaking.... it's all "do something today that you are afraid of!" as a way toward personal growth.

I really don't see why sex can't be approached in the same way.

My advice to her would be to push past her fears and just go for it. She will either find that that's all it was, initial fear, and now she's free to explore and learn about herself sexually, or, she may learn "No, this really is not for me". Learning that would be an unpleasant experience, sure, but not the end of the world - and the self knowledge gained would be worth it.

In order to do this, her partner would have to know what's up, of course. Undertaking this experiment with someone who doesn't know that an experiment is happening is not fair to the partner. But something like "I'm afraid of physical intimacy, but tired of being afraid, and really want what's on the other side of the fear. Could you help me take this leap?" would be taken well by most decent people. Pick something fairly low stakes like playing with each other's breasts, and just do it. She'll learn something about herself that she can then take into account when making further decisions.

Just 26! At that age I was celibate, though not by choice. I was 32 before joining with my second partner, having been just about cauterized by my first at 18. That's as a white, heterosexual, cis-male and you know we never have any problems at all.

It is shockingly easy for anyone to be on the 'outside' of the sexual/social rituals required by one's culture. It hadn't occurred to me that this could be worse or more common for lesbians, but now its obvious that the lack of safety and comfortable social space could be devastating. Just being in a '10%' situation would aggravate every difficulty, even without homophobia.

Two paragraphs aren't enough to make pronouncements about the writer. Bad therapy, traumatic experience, terrible conditioning from family/society; any or all of these could be enough.

I wish DSA had told us what form her terror takes when she's in that intimate sexual situation. It would make a difference in knowing how to help her.

Does her fear lead her to say no when Girlfriend asks about a specific sexual act?
Does she start crying and shaking when Girlfriend moves a hand to her breast?
Is it a matter of breaking into a sweat when she thinks about sex?

I didn't think I had any insight into this letter not being lesbian or 26 with no sexual experience, but I do recall being all wrapped up in excitement and fear when I first started. The thing that helped me was a boy whose own desire led him to take the lead with me. I imagine that if he'd asked if he could touch my breast after he kissed me, I might have been too scared to say yes. Instead, he just did it, pretty much got to 2nd base, and when there was no absolute objection, pressed on for 3rd.

But that doesn't mean I'm recommending Girlfriend do that with DSA. I'd need more information first.

I have a friend that had severe vaginismus and couldn't have penetrative vaginal sex even after being in a loving relationship for years. She tried talk therapy for years to uncover the roots of her anxiety - didn't work. What finally did work was changing therapists to one that used gradual exposure therapy (desensitization therapy) to help her work up to penetrative sex little by little, step by step. If LW wants to have partner sex but is blocked by anxiety / fear she doesn't understand, this might be a path to explore. It's similar to Dan's advice, but would be a professionally supported plan tailored to the LW's triggers and comfort level. She would want to be able to talk about what's going on with her partner, and be supported by her partner as she works through the gradual exposure process.

She sounds like a driver who didn't drive for a year after a car accident, and now has such a complex built up over it, it's nearly insurmountable.

Relationship aside, she probably needs to just jump with two feet, proactively forgive herself for being 'weird' in bed / having questions / no knowing what to do / not getting her partner off / not giving her partner her own orgasm / basically every other sorta-rational-but-not-really fear.

I'm not sure that saying 'I'm a sexual person in private' means that someone is _not_ asexual. There is such near-unanimity in society that sex is important, central to our sense of self-identity and -worth, that one would have to be very confident and independent-minded (and better-informed than the LW is--most likely) to declare not being, or feeling, sexual. A possible analogy would be a non-neurotypical person claiming typicality because they were maneuvred, or had positioned themselves, into granting that they cared for other people (in this case, they very well might care or have an ability to empathise, but would not have the same instinctive sense of the mental that characterises those not on the spectrum).

I would doubt that the LW has been able to say to the woman she's dating, 'you know, it's almost taboo to admit this, but I find sex really daunting'. Instead--and again I'm extrapolating and being a bit brusque, but only to try to deflate the sutuation--the would-be gf has, more likely, leaned in for a kiss and the LW has panicked and 'telegraphed her discomfort' and run a mile. This wouldn't be being fair to the date, and it's downright punitive on herself. She needs to ask whether she wants to have some sort of sexual experience with her date and not be ashamed either way, whatever the answer--sexual or asexual. Then, if the answer's that she's interested in exploring; that she might want to have sexual experience, she's curious what's out there, she should trust her partner with the knowledge that she finds sex almost overwhelmingly scary. She need not be ashamed she's a virgin at 26, and should make a big effort to suppress this shame if she has it. (In many more religious cultures round the world, and maybe until the sexual revolution of the 60s, virginity at 26--or rather before marriage--was the norm). An unusual and frightening--but rewarding--degree of trust may be needed to take the relationship to another, sexual stage.

I think Dan's letter is off base. I don't see where LW said she is repulsed by sex or has a low libido. She said she's terrified of sex. I can certainly relate to this. I'm nearly 30 years old and a virgin. Not a "technical" virgin but a real one. I'm not asexual, I fantasize about sex frequently and I want it. The issue is I have an anxiety disorder which comes with a lot of social anxiety. I avoid social situations and my adventures on dating sites have usually ended with me ghosting someone who doesn't deserve it. I've never gotten to the point in a relationship where sex even comes up, but if I did I can imagine I would avoid that also. So I wouldn't assume LWs issue is sexual when it could just as easily be an emotional issue or some other reason she's avoiding intimacy. It happens to people with average libidos.

@27 "I don't see where LW said she is repulsed by sex ... She said she's terrified of sex"

I get that terrified and repulsed aren't exactly synonyms, but I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference in those words are they related to this LW.

Sportlandia, I think there is a huge difference. I'm terrified of plane crashes, for example. I have to travel a lot for both personal and professional reasons, and therefore I have to come up with ways to manage that fear and cope with the anxiety- and there are things I've found to make flights pleasant but I wouldn't do them for their own sake. I'm also terrified of heights but sometimes they thrill me and excite me. I have to work myself up to it, but I like parasailing and mountaineering. I'm also terrified of nuclear war or having my throat cut by an intruder- so terror doesn't always have an allure (though it sometimes does). She doesn't know yet which kind of terror it is. It could be that she's terrified of physical intimacy and also doesn't want anything to do with it. Or it could be that it's thrilling in a delicious way once she learns to handle it. Or it could be that it's just about managing the anxiety and she'll like other things about it or can get used to it enough to eventually find it pleasant. Or it could be something she really loves once she manages the fear.

Repulsion is totally different. There is nothing for you if you are repulsed by something. I'm repulsed by vomit, for example. I don't need to figure out why or get to the root of this. I can manage being around vomit when it's absolutely necessary (like when I'm taking care of a sick child) but there is nothing about it that I'm ever going to find interesting or attractive or useful or pleasant or desirable, etc. Repulsion is a hard no- it's not circumstantial or nuanced.

Several people have suggested the W might be more comfortable being passive while her girlfriend initiates. But she could also consider if she would be more comfortable if she initiated and didn't have to be touched or remove all of her clothes. That might allow her to feel more in control. And stone butches (and femmes) were certainly part of lesbian history even if they aren't common in the younger generation. Or the LW could try something limited and then become more comfortable being touched.

@27 have you tried specifically only dating others w extreme social anxiety? Not trying to be flippant, although think about the sheer overwhelming relief you'd both feel after either one ghosts, kinda a gift to each other really. I could see that going places after a few years of pro-level dodging. Plus you could set up any in person meetings w escape clauses so neither of you would feel trapped.

@30 agreed. She needs to tell the gf she's terrified, and gf needs to give her total control, as in gf doesn't move at all, all action is by lw. Do that for months, one of those things where they will go faster the slower they go. Gf can verbally encourage but must not pressure, probably doesn't need to be told that last bit, being female. Lw, help her to help you. Tell her what's going on, by text or email or letter if you can't say the words you need to say. I bet she would be honored. You are not broken. I know it feels that way but you are not.

Oh, and lw? Worked for me. I could not hold hands wo panic attack. Could not make eye contact. Tended to literally piss myself in fear. Fine now, more than fine. This is doable. If not w this gf then w another, although if you think you might he able to w this one, give it a try. Important to not be afraid of being afraid or of being perceived as crazy or difficult. You go right ahead and be afraid, terrified, crazy, a "problem" (self perceived, others don't see you like that), whatever. The right person doesn't turn away from you for that. The right person is good to you in all that.

LW - this is also a chance to use "approach/retreat" animal training method, particularly useful with horses. You can do this w sex, touching, anything. Can you stand 50' away from the gf and with perfect calm reach a hand out like you're going to grab a boob? How about 49' away? Repeat ad nauseum. The retreat comes into play when you start to get nervous - the instant you feel any discomfort you remove yourself to where you felt 100% calm and practice there again until you get so calm and bored you are absolutely sure you can move closer without anxiety of any kind. The goal is to never feel more than incredibly slight worry, and to fix it the instant you do by retreating to a safe place. I'm betting the ridiculousness of using this approach as a human training yourself will help lighten things up for you, and also show you exactly what it is that's bothering you, as well as build up easy successes. It's very silly and silliness is part of sex too. It's not supposed to be a grim undertaking of overcoming terrible fear, and I worry that each time you feel you are failing you are reinforcing your fear. The idea is to concentrate on what you can do, even if it seems tremendously small when you start. Start with whatever you are most comfortable with. Get each thing good before you try a new thing. You get anxious again you start over where you feel safe. Each time you'll get better. Always end on a success, even if you have to retreat to get it. It takes fear out of wild horses. It's how you tame deer. It works.

TLC @27: Thank you for sharing your story. I hope you are getting treatment for your anxiety so that you can one day have a happy social and maybe even a sex life.

Sportlandia @28: I agree that there's a huge difference. DSA wants to want sex, but her fears are a so far insurmountable stumbling block. Someone repulsed by sex would know they didn't want to have sex; their issue would be more likely to be "how do I tell this person I will never want to have sex with them?"

No @32: Women are humans with libidos. There is nothing inherent about having a vagina that will magically stop someone who wants sex from pressuring a partner who doesn't. Otherwise, I hope you mean you figuratively pissed yourself, but the rest of your advice seems valuable. Congratulations on getting over your fears!

@29 (& @35) in the context of *THIS* LW, 27s comment is splitting the same hair. There's only a single set of sexual feelings (regardless of what you think that feeling is) under discussion, therefore no reason to differentiate. It should be noted, *No one* had said the word repulsed until 27 said "I don't see where LW said she is repulsed".

“I'm hoping asexuality came up at some point during your three years in therapy—therapy that, I'm assuming, covered your disinterest-bordering-on-revulsion regarding sexual intimacy.”

@35 Of course. But we've all been, at best, harrassed, often from quite a young age (see: everything going on right now). Our current culture seems to over expect empathy of us as well, often to detriment of self. So as a group, women tend to be a lot less pressurey about sex.

I did not mean figuratively.

@35 Women also tend to see women as people more easily than men do. This improves things. I imagine if male you might see more aggressive behavior from women. But women w/ women?

Anyone else care to comment on this I'd appreciate it, my experiences are only my own.

Roxane Gay appears to agree

https://twitter.com/rgay/status/91780422…

@35 "There is nothing inherent about having a vagina that will magically stop someone who wants sex from pressuring a partner who doesn't."

There's the physical strength and often size differential. Do men not know that's a inherent constant potential threat? Even with men you trust, it's there. It's never not there.

@41. No. What you say is true for how many women feel around men--that the men are potential rapists in that the size and strength differentials mean that, in a struggle, the men could overwhelm them. The 'men are potential rapists' remark isn't meant to say (in every case) something about men's psychology or their presumed tendency to slip back into something atavistic and violent.

At the same time, a big part of feminism must be seeing people as people, not as means to an end; and as individuals, not as ciphers of the social types they belong to. I'd hope in this light that women would think the particular men they're intimate with are psychologically incapable of rape.

@42 absolutely, why else would you be around them at all? Not my point. There is an inherent power imbalance - physical, social. Cannot help but be aware of it, and for a fearful person it is likely a part of that fear. It's also part of many women's sexual attraction to men - he could tear me apart, effortlessly, any time, anywhere, but he doesn't, wouldn't ever. He would harm those who harm me. "I feel safe with him" has more than one meaning, and both can be true.

@42 think about when you first started dating in your teens. You dated women and men, right? Did it not feel different, the social dynamic? The physical one?

@42 what do you think of Roxane's thread?

@42 and at the merely practical level, I have not been with a woman who could pick me up and throw me, have you?

@35 Moises chiullans thread on the sexual abuse and harassment he's experienced at work says he's experienced 50% from men and 50% from women, all white. Same as your experience?

Hi everyone, LW here. My thanks to Dan and all of you for your encouragement and advice.

I do identify as asexual to a degree; what degree—demisexual, graysexual, or true ace—is less certain. I don’t want or need sex the way most people do, but I do get horny, masturbate, and feel sexual attraction (almost always to celebrities or fictional characters). Not to mention, it’s hard for me to separate my anxieties about sex from my level of interest in it.

I talked with the girl I wrote in about and we agreed to scale back to friendship. It was a tough conversation to have because both of us were enjoying the emotional and social aspects of dating, but she just needed more physical intimacy than I was comfortable with. The hope is that as friends, we will be able to be in each other’s lives without causing each other pain. And with future potential partners, I will make my limitations clear early on.

I would like to clarify one thing—I was in therapy for three years for much more than just my sexual hangups. I made a lot of progress in other areas during that time, but even before I aged out of my parents’ health care plan and had to stop seeing my old therapist, I was thinking about finding someone who would be better-equipped to help me figure out what I want and need from a romantic partner.

Thanks again!

@35 James van der beek and Terry crews talk about men only, although that doesn't preclude women.

@48 thanks for writing in lw! I wanted to add, I didn't really have crushes or anything re real people either prior to actual sexual activity irl, so I don't know that that's meaningful re asexuality. I also think that people who talk about their sex drive also tend to be hornier people - not much need to complain about it when it's not a problem, you know? So I think basing your assessment of what "normal sex drive" is off other people's accounts (in whom you also haven't personally witnessed it either, bragging is a thing) may not be the most accurate thing to do. You may also have responsive desire, see : come as you are by Emily nagosky, which describes that pretty well - unless ovulating and not always then I have minimal/no discernable sex drive until and unless I am in the presence of someone who wants me and I want them. Not at all asexual. Not unusual, particularly for women. The anxiety is also a massive arousal suppressor, so that could be in play even in hypothetical/imaginary situations, you know? That said, I am 100% over it now, was surprisingly quick to fix after years of agonizing.

LW - thanks for writing in! I tried posting earlier so this may be a repeat, but just in case...
I didn't have crushes or feel attraction to real life people either, before.
I don't know if going by others description of their sex drive is helpful, bragging is a thing, people who have high sex drives being mostly the ones who talk about it is a thing, and anxiety being a massive libido killer is a thing - without the fear there you may feel very differently. I do.
Being up front is important. I wrote a single space double sided manifesto. Didn't think to make it a signed contract or I would have. In retrospect, that probably came off as a tad nuts but it made me feel safer and it made sure I said absolutely everything I needed to say.
You may have luck working at least part of this out w a friend who is dating others, or someone poly, because then no pressure from anywhere, plus low stakes.
I didn't find shrinks helpful for this kind of thing, ymmv of course. It's one of those things where doing rather than thinking worked better for me. Less processing the better. I didn't have a trauma history, if you do id give different advice.
And the approach retreat thing? Been thinking on that, and really, I think people would pay to be on the receiving end of it. Imagine the suspense.

LW - the thing that was also major for me was trust. I don't know how you are w other people in general - you may be able to develop that more easily than I do, in which case dating makes sense. For that first one, I needed to be sure I was in complete control and it was at my pace and that he'd want to go slower than I would because he'd want to be sure I was ok, and in order to do that I needed to know him well. I think this will be easier to find when dating women, but maybe it's also useful to think about whether you need that long term contact to get to know them better first and if so how to set that up so it happens more. Classes, work, volunteering, hobbies, sports teams, etc can build that structure if you need it. I don't need it any more but I did then.

LW- and finally, if on meds, check the side effect list. It's about finding an acceptable balance, but especially if you've been medicated since early teenhood, you may have no idea what your normal settings are re libido, and it's a convo worth having w whatever doc you can muster.

And if not on meds, worth a shot, anxiety meds can be pretty mild to make a big difference, next time you have insurance (or free clinic if you don't, generics are cheap). Dan recommends pot, everyone else recommends booze, so why not try something specifically for anxiety that doesn't also impair your judgement or sense of control? Temporary use, start mild, usually a blood pressure meds at small dose (say one 10 mg propanalol $10-$15 for 30 pills out of pocket), or muscle relaxant. Like how Dan recs people w scared dicks use Viagra to get past the psych block.

@43. 'No'. I feel the 'he will rip other men, aggressors, apart to protect me' too much for men to live up to. Not for every man, but certainly for some straight (and other) men. People would see me as male and not--or only parodically--female, and I wouldn't be able to stand up to other men. I'd think it generally a regrettable gender norm.

@44. 'no'. I didn't date in my teens. I had pashes on older boys and started having furtive sex when I was 19 or so. This was badly negotiated on my part, needy, occasionally compulsive and not in the context of any 'relationship'. (I didn't come to 'date' women, after a whole second 'coming out' experience, until my thirties, and that was in the context of very open-minded queer cultures, with no expectations of monogamy. I'm pretty exclusively homoromantic).

The level of physical threat from dates and just randos expressing interest was (and is) something I perpetually have to gauge. Just my physique, which is feminised but also hefty, attracts it. I've been gaybashed countless times, but mostly in scuffles as I was somehow defending myself or taking evasive action. Looking back, some of the experiences I put myself through as a young man seem pretty hair-raising. I think, as well, I numbed myself to some of the emotional damage that would normally ensue from abuse and psychic violence in situations of intimacy--like the guy screaming 'take it, faggot' as he was coming. Now it would be absolutely aversive, but back then I accepted it as what came up in the course of sex. And as what many men were like, too.

If Roxanne Gay is saying she's given up on dating men for reasons of gender politics, I sympathize. I have no sympathy, that is, with the view that shit is something one must smile about and swim through for the sake of getting laid. If somebody genuinely says sex is politics for them, and the politics is bad, I can only say 'sure' when they announce they're not bothering with it.

@48. KGH. Thanks for writing in!

I wouldn't even think of your tentativeness about sex as a 'limitation'. It’s who you are, what you start with in any kind of dating situation. It sounds very much to me that you've made progress from where you were three years ago and that sexually you may well find someone--if that's what you want.

Good luck with everything!

@56 rg wasn't saying it was about politics I don't think (perhaps I am misunderstanding your words?). It's just bc men tend to he pressuring about sex and it was nice to date women bc in her experience (and mine) women don't do that/don't feel entitled.
There is an inherent strength differential w men, average 4x women's strength, regardless of size, that is just a thing testosterone does to muscle fiber, injecting testosterone will do the same. It's not about presenting as/looking strong, it is physiology. I'm sorry to hear your relationships w women have been just as physically threatening as those w men, not my experience, anyone else care to comment?

@KGH Thanks for updating us. I'm sorry you had to break up but it may be the best thing in the long run.

@31 Not really, and I think that would probably make the situation worse rather than better. You put two socially dysfunctional people together and you can just get more dysfunction.

@35 Yeah, I'm trying to get treatment. I just increased my Prozac prescription. However if I increase it too much it might ruin my sex drive. So that's another thing to be anxious about. Really though I'm not as bad as it used to be so eventually I'll probably be normal.

@59 what fun is it to date the sane (aka people who will never truly understand you)? Personally I find myself allergic to the socially functional and do just fine. Why limit people like yourself from your own dating pool? Don't let self stigma cock block you my friend. Your "dysfunction" will not be seen as a problem by someone who has it too. I very sincerely hope you haven't restricted your friendships in the same way, that's gotta feel awful.

And meds won't necc conk your dick unless you know for a fact that specific med will at that dosage, it's pretty individual, also, obv it's very easily reversible. And there's always Wellbutrin. Or Viagra. Have you ever been on anti anxiety meds? Cause Prozac is an antidepressant, not primarily for anxiety, and harder on the junk than some. Your problem is less likely to be reduced sex drive and more likely to be it takes a million years to orgasm (not a downside if dating women). The reduced sex drive thing is more typically a lady problem, also your shrink will happily prescribe around it.

@59 to be extra clear, by "ruin my sex drive" you mean throw it off for a couple weeks maximum until you tweak the dosage or change/add meds, right?

You try cbt? Cheap, don't even need insurance, sliding scale, groups everywhere, make sure doc heading it, give it a whirl. Anxiety is one of those things that is real responsive to good treatment, and cbt or dbt is very helpful to control your thinking about thoughts like the one above. Good training.

@59 to be even clearer, you wouldn't even need to see or call a doc to restore your temporarily lost libido bc you'd just go down to your old dose, this is a potential problem you are aware of in advance and so therefore won't allow to linger or attribute to other causes, it is eminently and almost immediately fixable, will not endanger you in any way, and which is not only fixable in that you can change dose but also in that there are dozens of other meds out there that work on the same neurotransmitter and which are possibly even more effective for your diagnosis. So this is a very safe experiment to conduct should you wish to do it, and you can do it any time of your choosing with your doctor's full support.
I know you know all this and are still afraid.
Cbt helps you w stuff like this.

@59 workbooks and online cbt/dbt too, if you can't leave the house.

@58. 'No'. In fact, I've never felt physically threatened by a woman. Some women badger men for sex, in my experience and to my knowledge, as much as any man. In one way, I wouldn't view wanting to have sex in any sort of relationship as 'entitled'.

@64 "Some women badger men for sex, in my experience and to my knowledge, as much as any man. " I did not know this as it hasn't been my experience, as a woman on either side of it. I'd guess there is additional pressure on men, from women, in part at least because there is a pervasive and harmful cultural perception that men are always supposed to be ready/interested in sex and that in a relationship to be rejected by a man is a far greater insult to ego than to be rejected by a woman re: sex. Not surprising that assholery is a non-gender specific trait. Do you find it to be as common in women as in men?

"In one way, I wouldn't view wanting to have sex in any sort of relationship as 'entitled'."

No, but that's not what I'm talking about.