Find Your Valentine
Slog
News & ArtsMonday, July 20, 2009
At Large Dear Michigan...
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 1:22 PM
...we had a wonderful time vacationing in your state. But it's time join the rest of the civilized world and ban smoking in bars and restaurants already. For serious.
And then you might want to do something about the funnel cake problem. There seems to be a lot of "intuitive eating" going on in Michigan by folks with lousy intuition.
3
Uh, isn't that the Washington State (Pot) calling the Michigan (Kettle) black?
Or haven't you traveled south of Oly?
Or haven't you traveled south of Oly?
5
On the other hand, it's kind of cool that basic-cable-watching has yet to stamp out every regional quirk.
7
Dan Savage, never missing an opportunity to bring classist hate to the readers of the Stranger. Congrats!
8
Why do you think I left? I dare you to find a restaurant that isn't a chain in my home town of 53K that delivers your entire daily caloric intake on one plate. Go ahead...try. They're not there.
10
If they didn't drive everywhere and eat nothing but processed foods in order to become morbidly obese these folks could be in avant-garde of personal carbon capture.
12
Why always this push for a ban? I think bans are just hateful and authoritarian... Why not go the Spanish way and just demand that bars decide whether they will allow, or not, smoking? Just advertise it at the door and then it is up top the client to decide whether or not he wants to walk into that bar or not... That is definitely more civilized...
And as far as the statement regarding "the rest of the civilized world"... if we are to trust wikipedia, then you would be implying that Argentina, Armenia and Austria (I stopped looking before I got to the B) aren't part of the civilized work... How bigoted of you!
And as far as the statement regarding "the rest of the civilized world"... if we are to trust wikipedia, then you would be implying that Argentina, Armenia and Austria (I stopped looking before I got to the B) aren't part of the civilized work... How bigoted of you!
13
i don't really see a big difference between judging people based on their weight and smoking vs. judging them for being gay.
spread the hate, it really helps things.
spread the hate, it really helps things.
14
OMG, it's Michigan's Adventure in my hometown of Muskegon. I remember when that began as a petting zoo/park called Deer Park Funland. Thanks, I think, Dan. Aren't the folks just lovely! Puff, puff, ash ash.
15
why the FUCK would you vacation in Michigan?
have you heard about this magical place called the West Coast? it kicks ass.
have you heard about this magical place called the West Coast? it kicks ass.
19
13: Really? Choosing to smoke a smelly biohazard until it becomes an addiction is the same as being born gay? You sure you don't want to rethink that one?
20
Dan, do you attend Slog Happy events? I want to know because someday I'd like to attend one, but if your fat-hating ass is there I'd rather just stay home. I wouldn't want to try to engage you in conversation only to have you sneer at my plus-size frame. But you probably wouldn't have the balls to do it to my face.
Thanks for doing every single goddamn thing you can to perpetuate negative stereotypes about fat people. I loooooove that you get all up in arms whenever a public figure stereotypes gay men as sex-crazed child molestors, but it's totally OK for you to say whatever horrible, shitty thing you can think of about anyone who doesn't have a model-perfect body.
You're a fucking hypocrite.
Thanks for doing every single goddamn thing you can to perpetuate negative stereotypes about fat people. I loooooove that you get all up in arms whenever a public figure stereotypes gay men as sex-crazed child molestors, but it's totally OK for you to say whatever horrible, shitty thing you can think of about anyone who doesn't have a model-perfect body.
You're a fucking hypocrite.
22
FUCK YOU FAT PEOPLE!!! You want to know one reason health care costs are fucking OUT OF CONTROL?!?!? Yeah, YOU!! Your inability to put the fucking fork down is leading to skyrocketing rates of LARDASS RELATED ILLNESS!!!!
So your fat DOES affect all of us!!!
So your fat DOES affect all of us!!!
23
We need to stop allowing stores to peddle non-food to us. If your bread is light and fluffy, it's not real food. If you can't pronounce every ingredient in something, it's not real food. We need to get back to eating REAL food and understand how our bodies work. I don't understand how our collective instincts have gotten so far off.
24
Carollani, it's more than that. There's simply MORE FOOD for us to eat ("real" and otherwise) then there used to be, largely because of all the corn we produce.
I can remember when a "large" soda at a restaurant was 16 ounces; that's "regular" if not "small" nowadays. Portions were smaller, there weren't unlimited refills, and so on. It is mostly junk food we're talking about here, but your restaurant meal is a lot bigger than it used to be too.
I can remember when a "large" soda at a restaurant was 16 ounces; that's "regular" if not "small" nowadays. Portions were smaller, there weren't unlimited refills, and so on. It is mostly junk food we're talking about here, but your restaurant meal is a lot bigger than it used to be too.
25
SOMEDAY WHEN THE LOLOCAUST VISITS SEATTLE EVRY1 WHO LIKES NON-SMOKING ESTABLISHMENTS WILL BE DEADED. I CHOOSEZ STIX OF LEAVES IN MY MOUFF, OTHERS CHOOZEZ GEN-TALIA OF THE SAME SEXESZ. IZ SAME? IZ SAME. I LIKES SMOKING, DAN LIKES COCKS. I AIN'T GONNA DENY HIM, DON'T DENY MEEEEEE PLZ. U R H8TERS IN THE H8TIN' WAY, NUT THE GUT PUBLIC SERVICE H8TER WAY.
26
No, that's just genetics. Those people are big boned, can't you see?
It's normal to eat like a parentless child in a candy store when you're forty - stuffing your face full of hot dogs, Mike & Ikes, and popcorn stretching that taxed stomach out. That's what everyone does.
You should lay off of those fatties and appreciate their inner beauty - because I'm sure they have winning personalities.
It's normal to eat like a parentless child in a candy store when you're forty - stuffing your face full of hot dogs, Mike & Ikes, and popcorn stretching that taxed stomach out. That's what everyone does.
You should lay off of those fatties and appreciate their inner beauty - because I'm sure they have winning personalities.
27
jesus christ people. obese people and their health problems are one of the reasons our healthcare is so expensive. how many people do you see who are fat as fat carrying themselves around on a Rascal Scooter for god's sake. Get off of it and walk. Maybe you'd lose a few.
29
Social acceptance of fatness is another contributing factor to the overweight epidemic. Society now equates telling folks they are fat and shouldn't eat is with calling a Jew a Kike, a Mexican a Spic/beaner or a black a nigger. They are not equivalent.
FAT (Lardass, Chunkstyle, Heifer, etc..) is not hate speech, but a statement of fact. Public chastising is legitimate, i.e., it is not bigoted or based on lies. It is a statement of fact.
Moreover, it can be changed, that is, you can lose weight.
The fat folks, however, have won the societal battle and have no equated being called fat with being called a racist name. That is not only wrong, but causes a disservice to fat folk. Yes, no one likes to be called names, but sometimes, it's tough love.
I equate being fat with being ignorant. I'll call someone a fool if they show ignorance. It'll hurt their feelings, but it will, hopefully, give them an incentive to learn.
Having a social norm that coddles fat folks is a disservice to them and society.
And yes, I've been called both fat and ignorant. It gave me motivation to learn and lose weight. Not that I have completely succeeded. So, I'm in the same boat with the you.
FAT (Lardass, Chunkstyle, Heifer, etc..) is not hate speech, but a statement of fact. Public chastising is legitimate, i.e., it is not bigoted or based on lies. It is a statement of fact.
Moreover, it can be changed, that is, you can lose weight.
The fat folks, however, have won the societal battle and have no equated being called fat with being called a racist name. That is not only wrong, but causes a disservice to fat folk. Yes, no one likes to be called names, but sometimes, it's tough love.
I equate being fat with being ignorant. I'll call someone a fool if they show ignorance. It'll hurt their feelings, but it will, hopefully, give them an incentive to learn.
Having a social norm that coddles fat folks is a disservice to them and society.
And yes, I've been called both fat and ignorant. It gave me motivation to learn and lose weight. Not that I have completely succeeded. So, I'm in the same boat with the you.
31
@ 25. Dude, what the hell are you talking about? No one is born with the genetic predisposition to smoke and eat MIke & Ikes. A person's sexual orientation has nothing to do with the sort of environmental degradation caused by Americans who won't give up their addictions no matter how much it racks up their personal health not to mention the health care system.
32
The obvious lesson here is that it's perfectly ok to believe and even promote stereotypes of people you don't like, because after all stereotypes are always accurate.
This is why we know Dan molests his son, because the stereotype is that all gays molest children.
This is why we know Dan molests his son, because the stereotype is that all gays molest children.
33
I think the "if you can't pronounce it" rule-of-thumb is a little too limiting. If I played by that rule I'd never eat French food, or Vietnamese, Mandarin, Greek, etc.
"Wonder Bread", "Crisco" and "deep fried Twinkie" are really easy to pronounce though.
"Wonder Bread", "Crisco" and "deep fried Twinkie" are really easy to pronounce though.
34
@32 and everyone else making excuses.
People, please, they're FAT!!!! Pretty obvious, and sort of an eyesore. I'm not saying I have a perfect body, but I make an effort.
People, please, they're FAT!!!! Pretty obvious, and sort of an eyesore. I'm not saying I have a perfect body, but I make an effort.
35
@ 29, Making a statement that society is fat and becoming obese is stating the truth. It is not hate speech to state that obesity is unhealthy and curable but calling someone a lard ass is kind of hate speech. Or at least a cruel way to make someone else feel bad while you enjoy a cheap laugh.
I'm not defending this gross trend in our society. I just don't want to make people hate themselves into despair, they'll never get out of their scooters then.
I'm not defending this gross trend in our society. I just don't want to make people hate themselves into despair, they'll never get out of their scooters then.
37
34 is right. I have a perfect body but can tell you, even with good genetics it takes a lot of work. But the good news is, being active and eating right is actually a lot of fun! The bad news is, even people with perfect bodies have problems :(
38
I'm not going to comment on Dan's attitude towards corpulent midwesterners, but it should be noted that Michigan is hardly alone in its rotundity. In fact, Washington state is nearly neckroll-in-neckroll with it.
Wanna see something scary?
Wanna see something scary?
39
@37: i don't think i've ever seen someone claim to have a 'perfect body' before. what does that mean?
40
@37, it's nice that you're active and that you eat right. But being active and eating right does not always equal having a "perfect" body. I walk everywhere, work out daily, eat healthy fresh foods, and I would still be considered a fatty fat piece of shit worthy of denigration by a huge number of people.
Also, the fat people on scooters that someone else mentioned? Here's the thing: that fat person could have been a very thin person who has something like Still's Disease (prohibiting their ability to walk) and has to take medications that cause weight gain. You just don't know.
My point is, sure, you can tell someone is fat by looking at them, but you can't tell WHY they're fat. Maybe try removing the GIANT FUCKING BEAM from your own eye before you go after the mote in mine kthx.
Also, the fat people on scooters that someone else mentioned? Here's the thing: that fat person could have been a very thin person who has something like Still's Disease (prohibiting their ability to walk) and has to take medications that cause weight gain. You just don't know.
My point is, sure, you can tell someone is fat by looking at them, but you can't tell WHY they're fat. Maybe try removing the GIANT FUCKING BEAM from your own eye before you go after the mote in mine kthx.
41
Oops, I thought I edited my comment in 26 by cutting out all of the nasty spirited fat jokes and replaced it with a comment on how this is a sad social endemic that that plagues the impoverished and uneducated early in life. Crap food is cheap to buy (i don't really consider it food though), and more accessible than farmer's markets and organic food selling co-ops. And once a person develops nasty dietary habits it's almost as hard to stop as quiting smoking - I'd imagine.
42
@ 40, You bring up a good point about a "perfect body". Not everyone looks the same and I personally would rather see a healthy person (maybe considered overweight by some) than a sickly underweight rail.
All natural body types have charm and beauty. If you're healthy, then feel good about who you are. For those who are overweight from eating junk - don't feel bad about who you are but if you want to not be overweight - know that eating Doritos is not going to fix things.
All natural body types have charm and beauty. If you're healthy, then feel good about who you are. For those who are overweight from eating junk - don't feel bad about who you are but if you want to not be overweight - know that eating Doritos is not going to fix things.
44
I vote we skip the hate, and find a way to see people for who they are. Don't we all wish not to be judged? And, when we are judged, wish that we are only being judged on the content of our character.
Therefore, Dan, lay off the general public. Save your sarky charm for those who attack you directly. That's my $0.02.
Therefore, Dan, lay off the general public. Save your sarky charm for those who attack you directly. That's my $0.02.
45
No one's saying anyone needs to have model bodies for crying out loud. There's a difference between being overweight, out of shape or dewey, and then just plain fat. Nasty fat. Decadent fat. Irresponsible fat. Those people in that picture and 100 million of their fellow citizens? TOO FAT.
The bullshit gay = fat claim is done. No one's buying. Instead of trying that meme yet again, get your ass to an orthodontist, get your fat faces wired shut and go for a walk.
The bullshit gay = fat claim is done. No one's buying. Instead of trying that meme yet again, get your ass to an orthodontist, get your fat faces wired shut and go for a walk.
47
Oh, Savage. Get over it. People eat, smoke and fuck; not all of us invest all of our energies in the latter. As you tell us of the epic scat fetishists - you don't have to love it, but you do have to respect its beautiful, liberal legality.
I love you, but smoke off.
I love you, but smoke off.
49
If dieting to lose weight is so successful, how come even people with a VESTED FUCKING INTEREST in it admit that at best there is an 80% failure rate (as in 80% of people who diet and lose weight WILL put that weight and more back on, even if they continue to abuse themselves)? More unbiased sources peg the failure rate at 95-98%.
And we're not saying being fat is exactly like being gay. We're saying that if it is ok to mentally abuse someone just because you believe their weight is unattractive, unsanitary, unhealthy, undesirable, or un-anything-else then it's ok to mentally abuse someone because you think their sex lives are unhealthy, unattractive, unsanitary, undesirable, or un-anything-else.
And we're not saying being fat is exactly like being gay. We're saying that if it is ok to mentally abuse someone just because you believe their weight is unattractive, unsanitary, unhealthy, undesirable, or un-anything-else then it's ok to mentally abuse someone because you think their sex lives are unhealthy, unattractive, unsanitary, undesirable, or un-anything-else.
50
I'm sitting here macking on a toasted-sesame salad with wontons while I have marinated tofu baking in the oven.
I am so glad I will never be like them.
I am so glad I will never be like them.
51
"diets" fail because they're not designed to be sustainable. if you want to lose weight and keep it off there is no simple fix. it requires a complete lifestyle change -- monitoring your daily caloric intake, balancing the percentage of fat/protein/carbs, exercising more, etc -- not drinking a couple milkshakes a day for a few weeks. ask anyone with a vested fucking interest (if by 'people with a vested fucking interest' you mean doctors, nutritionists, and dieticians) and they will tell you as much.
52
@51
TOOO HARD.
They would just rather not, while complaining about how lonely they are and how sick the world is and how they can't get sex with the people they'd like to outside of paying for it, or internalizing dramatically lowered standards...burying their dreams under all of the fat and excuses that they themselves created. Then feeling depressed about it and binging more.
sick, sick cycle.
TOOO HARD.
They would just rather not, while complaining about how lonely they are and how sick the world is and how they can't get sex with the people they'd like to outside of paying for it, or internalizing dramatically lowered standards...burying their dreams under all of the fat and excuses that they themselves created. Then feeling depressed about it and binging more.
sick, sick cycle.
53
@52, until you can provide verified documentation that you are indeed clairvoyant, please do not attempt to speak for all the fat people of the world. You're not stating "truth" here, you're projecting what you hope and imagine all those horrible icky fatties are thinking.
The only way you can claim your bullshit argument as truth is if you're telling us that YOU are fat and this is how YOU feel. I am fat, but I most assuredly do not feel the way you insist all fat people do.
The only way you can claim your bullshit argument as truth is if you're telling us that YOU are fat and this is how YOU feel. I am fat, but I most assuredly do not feel the way you insist all fat people do.
55
@54, it's kind of pointless to try to insult me with OMG FAT when I've already said here several times that I am fat. Jesus. Pull your head out of your ass.
56
Also, @54, going straight for the (really lame) insults instead of actually trying to rebut my argument? Thanks for doing nothing but proving my point, hombre.
57
Haunted leg @20 - Since you asked: yes, Dan occasionally appears at Slog Happy. So far, I have never witnessed him talking shit to someone about their weight to their face, despite the fact that there are plenty of commenters who are at least a bit overweight. In fact, in person I've found him to be nice and jovial. So yeah, he doesn't have the balls to say this sort of thing to a person's face. It'd be great to see you at the next one!
59
56 -- I am formerly fat. So it bugs the shit out of me when fat people use the same excuses and logic that I used to keep myself fat back then.
61
@33 - "if you can't pronounce it" should refer to ingredients, not menu names. "deep fried Twinkie" ingredients will include a number of long, polysyllabic chemical names. Roasted beets in honey-wine reduction will contain: Beets, honey, wine, salt. Both are tasty. One will make you morbidly obese.
@13 and others thinking that Fat = Gay in terms of tolerance, etc. This is a bad analogy. A better one would be this: Even in the LGBT community we are offended by unsafe sex practices. Sure, some people commit them, but as a community we insist on condom use, regular HIV checking, etc. As a community, we think that unsafe sex practices are dangerous and harmful, both to the individual and the community.
By comparison, as a community of eaters, we are repulsed by unsafe eating habits, such as anorexia and excessive eating. Or we should be. Eating to the point of becoming fat is dangerous to the individual and to the community. We tend to describe the resulting body shape in negative terms.
In both situations, we (should) feel a mix of sympathy and anger towards people who don't follow safe practices. People who acquire STDs deserve our help and pity, but we also privately, or even publicly, repudiate their choices. In the beginning of the AIDS crisis, we didn't know better. Now we do, and we want everyone to be safe. How do you feel about someone who engages in risky sex and gets infected?
In the 50's we didn't know that eating everything made out of whipped oil would be so bad for us. Now we do. How should we act towards people who continue to abuse their own bodies?
When we see a fat person who looks healthy, and is making an effort to be active, eat right, etc. then we should be pleased and treat them with a combination of sympathy and welcoming. Fat people who keep ruining their bodies should get the same contempt we reserve for HIV positive people who seek out risky situations in an attempt to spread their infection.
More...
@13 and others thinking that Fat = Gay in terms of tolerance, etc. This is a bad analogy. A better one would be this: Even in the LGBT community we are offended by unsafe sex practices. Sure, some people commit them, but as a community we insist on condom use, regular HIV checking, etc. As a community, we think that unsafe sex practices are dangerous and harmful, both to the individual and the community.
By comparison, as a community of eaters, we are repulsed by unsafe eating habits, such as anorexia and excessive eating. Or we should be. Eating to the point of becoming fat is dangerous to the individual and to the community. We tend to describe the resulting body shape in negative terms.
In both situations, we (should) feel a mix of sympathy and anger towards people who don't follow safe practices. People who acquire STDs deserve our help and pity, but we also privately, or even publicly, repudiate their choices. In the beginning of the AIDS crisis, we didn't know better. Now we do, and we want everyone to be safe. How do you feel about someone who engages in risky sex and gets infected?
In the 50's we didn't know that eating everything made out of whipped oil would be so bad for us. Now we do. How should we act towards people who continue to abuse their own bodies?
When we see a fat person who looks healthy, and is making an effort to be active, eat right, etc. then we should be pleased and treat them with a combination of sympathy and welcoming. Fat people who keep ruining their bodies should get the same contempt we reserve for HIV positive people who seek out risky situations in an attempt to spread their infection.
62
Short people are worse than fat people because they are jerks. Fat people just play computer games and eat ice cream sandwiches - short people are always trying to run the world. And God forbid anyone ever comment about short people!
63
Dan, I'm normally one of the ones to defend you, even when you post flamebait. But this was just stupid.
If you're going to make crass fat jokes, they have to be at least funny by a 3rd grade standard. 4chan may be educational in this regard.
If you're going to make crass fat jokes, they have to be at least funny by a 3rd grade standard. 4chan may be educational in this regard.
65
Dan, generally, I can get behind what you're posting, but you're being pissy & dictatorial, on this. I thought you were for accepting people for who they are, be they smoker, non-smoker, skinny, over weight, gay, straight, whatever. I know I certainly accept people for who they are.
Please, don't tell me now, that you have a list of who and what to "ban." In my opinion, that makes you just as bad as those that want to ban "gays."
Guess I'll just chock this up to you PMS-ing.
Please, don't tell me now, that you have a list of who and what to "ban." In my opinion, that makes you just as bad as those that want to ban "gays."
Guess I'll just chock this up to you PMS-ing.
66
@57
I saw Dan hitting on this gal at the last Slog Happy:
http://www.addictedtoquack.com/images/ad…
(Dan is behind the gal, you can't see him...)
I saw Dan hitting on this gal at the last Slog Happy:
http://www.addictedtoquack.com/images/ad…
(Dan is behind the gal, you can't see him...)
68
Ohio is full of fat fat fatties compared to Washington. I've been back and forth quite a few times. Not to the degree of "dear god that person is fat," but a lot of chubbers who could lay off the snacks among the usual fucking fatasses who you'll find anywhere.
70
pretty funny thinking that most of THE STRANGER staff members are overweight, overworked, underpaid and pale as fucking ghosts.
71
Dan, please don't attack the fatties. Isn't bad enough that these people have diabetes and other health concerns? They don't need you trashing them.
73
I will never get over the creepiness of Dan Savage taking pictures of unknowing strangers and then posting them on the internet. You are such an aging, creepy loser. Seriously Dan, get a life.
74
Fat people have made American medicine the best in the world because we have had to be innovative in order to tackle the health challenges presented by obesity. Stent technology, for example, has revolutionized the treatment of arteriosclerosis. Advances in treatment of hypertension and diabetes have made those diseases less life threatening and much more manageable.
Knee and hip replacement surgeries have made it possible for fat people to maintain mobility. We've got one of the best specialty hospitals for hip and knee surgeries about 25 minutes outside of Indianapolis. Personally, I can't wait until I get my medicare-paid-for Hummaround scooter...fuck yeah!
Knee and hip replacement surgeries have made it possible for fat people to maintain mobility. We've got one of the best specialty hospitals for hip and knee surgeries about 25 minutes outside of Indianapolis. Personally, I can't wait until I get my medicare-paid-for Hummaround scooter...fuck yeah!
75
Obesity is not just a symptom of poor willpower. It's also symptom of a sick society-- our cities and suburbs were not designed to promote walking/biking, poor neighborhoods have less access to fresh fruits and vegetables, and soda is considered a reasonable beverage.
Sure, some heath conditions cause obesity, and people are eating too much processed food, and spending too much time being entertained and not enough time being active. But, importantly, people are also not being taught to deal productively with difficult feelings like grief, loss, frustration, loneliness, and anger. Overeating is a common response to anxiety, as it temporarily squelches feelings. Depression and obesity are linked, and both are on the rise.
Dan, posting photos of the asses of fat people along with blaming captions is cruel, and a lazy way to get in the link you wanted to post from the NYT about intuitive eating. You are a leader, and when you shame fat people it makes it seem more acceptable for others to do so. I have always appreciated your analysis on social justice issues, and your quick wit and blunt truthfulness in your column. But your take on obesity issues is sad, sadistic, and cringe-worthy. Please consider re-thinking it.
Dan, it would be awesome if you could help to find some middle ground between the judgmentally simplistic "fat people are gross should just eat less", and the fat acceptance lie that "fat people are fine and not actually unhealthy." Ridicule and ostracization have not yet conquered the obesity epidemic, and refusing to admit that being obese is a problem in need of action is also not going to drive down health-care costs. What is needed are sharp witted minds like yours helping to create an inclusive health and wellness movement, rather than shaming and blaming fatties.
More...
Sure, some heath conditions cause obesity, and people are eating too much processed food, and spending too much time being entertained and not enough time being active. But, importantly, people are also not being taught to deal productively with difficult feelings like grief, loss, frustration, loneliness, and anger. Overeating is a common response to anxiety, as it temporarily squelches feelings. Depression and obesity are linked, and both are on the rise.
Dan, posting photos of the asses of fat people along with blaming captions is cruel, and a lazy way to get in the link you wanted to post from the NYT about intuitive eating. You are a leader, and when you shame fat people it makes it seem more acceptable for others to do so. I have always appreciated your analysis on social justice issues, and your quick wit and blunt truthfulness in your column. But your take on obesity issues is sad, sadistic, and cringe-worthy. Please consider re-thinking it.
Dan, it would be awesome if you could help to find some middle ground between the judgmentally simplistic "fat people are gross should just eat less", and the fat acceptance lie that "fat people are fine and not actually unhealthy." Ridicule and ostracization have not yet conquered the obesity epidemic, and refusing to admit that being obese is a problem in need of action is also not going to drive down health-care costs. What is needed are sharp witted minds like yours helping to create an inclusive health and wellness movement, rather than shaming and blaming fatties.
76
Dan has said himself that he'll probably be fat when he gets old (read The Kid). He fears this because it's genetic for him. He works hard to stay in shape. All of us who have obesity in our families, and who work to stay in shape, fear ending up like those in that picture.
It's not "hate" of fat people. It's fear that we'll end up like that. When we say, "God. Look. Damn that's horrid," it's not about hating on those people. We're not saying those people are horrid. It's us, telling ourselves, promising ourselves, hoping to high heaven that we won't become fat.
This is probably why Dan is friendly to overweight people. He doesn't think they're "less than." He just doesn't want to be fat like them, and he has every right to feel that way.
It's not "hate" of fat people. It's fear that we'll end up like that. When we say, "God. Look. Damn that's horrid," it's not about hating on those people. We're not saying those people are horrid. It's us, telling ourselves, promising ourselves, hoping to high heaven that we won't become fat.
This is probably why Dan is friendly to overweight people. He doesn't think they're "less than." He just doesn't want to be fat like them, and he has every right to feel that way.
77
76
If Dan isn't afraid to embrace his 'genetic' faggotry why does he fear his 'genetic' obesity?
EMBRACE YOUR GENES, Dan!
If Dan isn't afraid to embrace his 'genetic' faggotry why does he fear his 'genetic' obesity?
EMBRACE YOUR GENES, Dan!
78
Ted Haggard has said himself that he'll probably be gay when he gets old. He fears this because it's genetic for him. He works hard to stay heterosexual. Anyone who has gay in their families, and who works to stay hetero, fears ending up like that.
It's not "hate" of gay people. It's fear that he'll end up like that. When he says, "God. Look. Damn that's horrid," it's not about hating on those people. He's not saying those people are horrid. It's him, telling himselve, promising himselve, hoping to high heaven that he won't become gay.
This is probably why Ted is "friendly" to gay people. He doesn't think they're "less than." He just doesn't want to be gay like them, and he has every right to feel that way.
It's not "hate" of gay people. It's fear that he'll end up like that. When he says, "God. Look. Damn that's horrid," it's not about hating on those people. He's not saying those people are horrid. It's him, telling himselve, promising himselve, hoping to high heaven that he won't become gay.
This is probably why Ted is "friendly" to gay people. He doesn't think they're "less than." He just doesn't want to be gay like them, and he has every right to feel that way.
79
@76, I've read The Kid. I know Dan comes from a fat family. That's part of why it sucks so hard to see him casually trash fat people like this -- it's really sad to see someone's internalized self-hatred splashed all over other people.
It's fine not to want to be fat. Fuck, *I* don't want to be fat. Unfortunately I know that there's only so much I can fight my genetics (yes, I also come from a "fat family"). Unfortunately I'm not willing to work out the 4+ hours a day, 7 days a week schedule that would get me down into single-digit clothing sizes. If that's something other people want to do, that's fine for them, but I should not be judged as less than human because I'm not willing to punish myself that way.
Dan may be friendly to fat people's faces, but then he publishes horrid shit about how he hates fat people. Don't tell me it's not hate, because it is.
It's fine not to want to be fat. Fuck, *I* don't want to be fat. Unfortunately I know that there's only so much I can fight my genetics (yes, I also come from a "fat family"). Unfortunately I'm not willing to work out the 4+ hours a day, 7 days a week schedule that would get me down into single-digit clothing sizes. If that's something other people want to do, that's fine for them, but I should not be judged as less than human because I'm not willing to punish myself that way.
Dan may be friendly to fat people's faces, but then he publishes horrid shit about how he hates fat people. Don't tell me it's not hate, because it is.
80
Detroit, Michigan is leading the nation in urban farming initiatives. People do try here, but it is difficult when unemployment is over 15% and rising. A lot of people are just trying to keep thier heads above water. I don't think a lot of the posters on here realize the crushing problems that your average Michigander deals with on a daily basis. Instead of hating, why not help? If you are in the position to sit back and cast judgements at will, why not roll your sleeves up instead? If you have the time to vacation and then write about it, why not dedicate some of that time to make a difference educating people on better ways to eat? Obesity in Michigan is a side effect of some big problems here, just as it is a side effect of poverty and a desperate public education system. This whole conversation breaks my heart.
81
79, I don't care what weight people are, but you say yourself that you don't want to be fat. It doesn't take working out 4+ hours a day, 7 days a week. Honestly, you making such exaggerated statements like that would suggest the biggest block to you losing weight is yourself.
Exactly how much do you work out? Do you work out on a regular basis? If so, how many times a week, and for how long? What sort of routine do you do?
What is your diet like? I know you are not just eating carrot sticks and drinking water all day, nor should you. There are happy mediums. A diet that relies on an extreme for a few weeks or months is destined to fail. It's about changing what you eat for the rest of your life. Most people know what they should and should not eat. How many times do you eat things when you know you really shouldn't? How often do you come away from a meal feeling bloated, asking yourself, "Why did I eat so much?"
I don't expect or want you to answer me in a such a forum, but at least answer the questions honestly to yourself.
Could you give me some exact quotes with links to where you feel Dan "published horrid shit" or said he "hates" fat people? I'm not saying he hasn't, just that I've not seen it. Truth be told, most weight issues are because of over eating and poor diet choices. That is what he said in this current post. Why is it horrid to acknowledge that?
Here's some very good information on losing weight. http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/index.h…
Exactly how much do you work out? Do you work out on a regular basis? If so, how many times a week, and for how long? What sort of routine do you do?
What is your diet like? I know you are not just eating carrot sticks and drinking water all day, nor should you. There are happy mediums. A diet that relies on an extreme for a few weeks or months is destined to fail. It's about changing what you eat for the rest of your life. Most people know what they should and should not eat. How many times do you eat things when you know you really shouldn't? How often do you come away from a meal feeling bloated, asking yourself, "Why did I eat so much?"
I don't expect or want you to answer me in a such a forum, but at least answer the questions honestly to yourself.
Could you give me some exact quotes with links to where you feel Dan "published horrid shit" or said he "hates" fat people? I'm not saying he hasn't, just that I've not seen it. Truth be told, most weight issues are because of over eating and poor diet choices. That is what he said in this current post. Why is it horrid to acknowledge that?
Here's some very good information on losing weight. http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/index.h…
83
Actually, Rob in Baltimore, I know from experience that it would take that kind of exercise regime for me to be in single-digit sizes. You're right that I don't need to justify my diet or exercise regime to you. In an earlier post I stated that I walk everywhere (I live in the city and have not owned a car for the past decade), I work out daily (that's 30-45 minutes of 85% maximum heart rate cardio, plus toning work on alternate days -- I work with a personal trainer) although some weeks I take a day or two off, and I eat healthy fresh foods (lots of fruits and veggies, some whole grains, and lean proteins). I do not eat until I am overfull and sick-feeling. I do not "diet". "Diets" do not work. If I want a brownie, I have a fucking brownie. If I want a salad, I have a salad. That's what intuitive eating is -- eating what you're hungry for when you're hungry for it. I will not deprive myself if I want to eat something sweet, but that doesn't mean it's all I ever eat, nor does it mean I'm cramming my mouth full of brownie after brownie and then moaning "Oh noes, why am I teh fatz?" It means I have a brownie if that's what I want, and then I move on with my day. Not all fat people are sitting around smearing themselves in cake frosting and crying about how they can't figure out why they're fat. That's a fallacy that uninformed or just plain bigoted people like to promote, rather than try to educate themselves. I do think it's very much akin to people assuming that all gay men want to fuck children.
For the record, I am 5 foot 8 and currently wear a size 16. That is fat by societal definition. If you saw me on the street you would probably not think "Oh fuck, what a lardass", but yes, I am fat. I am coming to terms with this, having spent most of my life hating myself because I am physically unable to be a willowy size two. I come from hearty Irish/German farming people, I have broader shoulders than most other women I know. I can carry a 6 foot 3, 250 pound man on my back for more than ten blocks, while I'm wearing heels, even when I'm drunk off my ass. (Again, speaking from experience there.) My body can do amazing things. It just can't get skinny.
Unfortunately I don't have time to pull up every Slog post or Stranger article that Dan has written in which he slags fat people. You can pull them up yourself by Googling "Dan Savage fat", or basically any permutation of that search string.
More...
For the record, I am 5 foot 8 and currently wear a size 16. That is fat by societal definition. If you saw me on the street you would probably not think "Oh fuck, what a lardass", but yes, I am fat. I am coming to terms with this, having spent most of my life hating myself because I am physically unable to be a willowy size two. I come from hearty Irish/German farming people, I have broader shoulders than most other women I know. I can carry a 6 foot 3, 250 pound man on my back for more than ten blocks, while I'm wearing heels, even when I'm drunk off my ass. (Again, speaking from experience there.) My body can do amazing things. It just can't get skinny.
Unfortunately I don't have time to pull up every Slog post or Stranger article that Dan has written in which he slags fat people. You can pull them up yourself by Googling "Dan Savage fat", or basically any permutation of that search string.
84
Rob, as for fatness being caused by overeating or poor diet choices... that's not really what Dan is saying here at all. He's posted a picture of fat people, a picture he took without them knowing it, and he's bitching about the "funnel cake problem" in the state of Michigan. Did he see these fat people cramming funnel cake after funnel cake in their mouths? Did he go up to them and ask them about their diet and exercise habits, their general health, their hereditary issues? I'm assuming he didn't. He went for the cheap and easy laugh.
I said in an earlier post that you can tell someone is fat by looking at them, but you can't tell WHY they're fat. Many people have health issues and take medications that cause weight gain. Many people have poor dietary habits and do not exercise. YOU CANNOT TELL from looking at someone whether they belong in column A or column B.
I said in an earlier post that you can tell someone is fat by looking at them, but you can't tell WHY they're fat. Many people have health issues and take medications that cause weight gain. Many people have poor dietary habits and do not exercise. YOU CANNOT TELL from looking at someone whether they belong in column A or column B.
85
I wished people would also shut up about the "smoking in bars."
If you don't like smoke in a bar, then drink somewhere else. The bar owner has the right to run their business as they wish. You or I should not be able to dictate such terms for everyone else to follow.
If we don't like a smoke-filled bar, we can always start our own, or drink somewhere else. So please, shut up with pooh-poohing the bar owners that allow for smoking, you anti-freedom loving commies.
If you don't like smoke in a bar, then drink somewhere else. The bar owner has the right to run their business as they wish. You or I should not be able to dictate such terms for everyone else to follow.
If we don't like a smoke-filled bar, we can always start our own, or drink somewhere else. So please, shut up with pooh-poohing the bar owners that allow for smoking, you anti-freedom loving commies.
86
Rob, I'm telling you, the math isn't the same for everybody. The 4+ hours may not be an exaggeration. I know that flies in the face of what you "know", but what you know is wrong.
Explain this to me, ok? Let's do it. I'll break it down on this here internet, I don't mind.
I'm 5'9" and weigh 250lbs. Very overweight.
My blood pressure, sugar, and cholesterol levels are perfect. I do have polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), which can affect weight, but I haven't always had that, and I've always been fat, so I don't really think that's the issue.
I'm a pre-med student with a longstanding interest in nutrition, fitness, and overall health. I got a 4.0 in my human nutrition course. I haz teh knowings.
I'm a non-religious vegan (meaning, I ask the waiter to hold the egg, but I don't ask them to check if the noodles have egg IN them). I get plenty of protein (I don't feel well on a carb-centric diet). I cook 95% of my food from scratch. REALLY from scratch; from bags of single-ingredient food (at this point, I'm making my own ketchup, fer fuck's sake) and fresh produce. Yesterday's food intake was fairly typical for a workday (on a day off, I'm eating way more fresh produce, cuz I have time to fix it). I had:
5 thin slices (about 8 ounces) of grilled tofu split between breakfast and dinner.
2 cups of this bean salad stuff that I make frequently (kidney beans, lentils, brown rice, kale, carrots, olive oil and vinegar)
A whole-wheat roll (Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes Per Day, holla!)
A tablespoon of garlic sauce (canola-oil based)
Raw kale and tomato
a plain 12oz soy latte (a weekly occurrence, roughly)
a cup of black coffee
lots of water with lime juice
When I eat out I'm sure I get more sugar (Thai food is SO sweet) and processed crap than I would feed myself, but I'm broke as a mutherfucker, so I don't eat out too much. A few times per month, maybe, including veggie pho nights.
I'm moderately active, largely because I don't feel sane otherwise. What that has looked like over the course of my life has varied a lot (without corresponding changes in weight), and there's a lot of seasonal variation. Right now, that looks like 35 hours a week at a job where I maybe spend 30 minutes sitting down on an average day. On days off, I walk at least 2 miles. I swim at least once per week when it's warm out. Come August, there will almost always be a swimsuit drying in my bathroom. A couple times per month I go for a 6-8 mile hike, or a 2-4 hour paddle (via kayak). I've usually incorporated some strength training in the past, but usually at the gym, and I don't have a gym membership right now ($), so I'm trying to figure out the best way to get that back into my life. I'm not an athlete (and I have pretty severe exercise-induced asthma, so I'll never run a marathon), and I obviously spend plenty of time in front of my computer. But I move.
In the past, when I was struggling with some anxiety issues, I spent about 6 months working out 3+ hours, 4-5 days per week. Just because I wanted to be able to sleep at night, basically. I was also depressed, which for me means eating less. I didn't lose any weight. I know that seems to violate laws of thermodynamics. Don't know what to tell ya. I didn't.
I lost weight once, in middle/high school. I worked out an hour per day, but mostly I starved myself. I ate less than 1000 calories every day. I felt like crap. I was lightheaded (and actually passed out a couple of times, once in front of my very worried parents). I'd be walking across campus and have to sit down on the ground because I'd get dizzy and shaky all of a sudden. It was awful. But I lost weight, and people were nicer to me! Then I started college and actually needed to be functional, so I started eating enough to get through the day without being sick, and whaddaya know. . . all the weight came back.
Everybody in my family is overweight. I'm a bit smaller than they are (which is frightening), because they actually don't take good care of themselves, to varying degrees. But not that much smaller.
I've been in long-term, live-in relationships with a few skinny people. None of them ate less than me. Only one was more active; the others were computer geeks who rarely did anything not involving a glowing screen. One of those geeks struggled to keep weight on, despite his 2-liter-a-day soda habit. Again, I have to wonder about those laws of thermodynamics.
So, Rob, and the rest of you who know that I'm actually a lazy glutton just by looking at me. . . there ya go. What would you have me do?
I'm not claiming to be typical. But I am claiming to EXIST, which seriously undermines a lot of claims and assumptions.
More...
Explain this to me, ok? Let's do it. I'll break it down on this here internet, I don't mind.
I'm 5'9" and weigh 250lbs. Very overweight.
My blood pressure, sugar, and cholesterol levels are perfect. I do have polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), which can affect weight, but I haven't always had that, and I've always been fat, so I don't really think that's the issue.
I'm a pre-med student with a longstanding interest in nutrition, fitness, and overall health. I got a 4.0 in my human nutrition course. I haz teh knowings.
I'm a non-religious vegan (meaning, I ask the waiter to hold the egg, but I don't ask them to check if the noodles have egg IN them). I get plenty of protein (I don't feel well on a carb-centric diet). I cook 95% of my food from scratch. REALLY from scratch; from bags of single-ingredient food (at this point, I'm making my own ketchup, fer fuck's sake) and fresh produce. Yesterday's food intake was fairly typical for a workday (on a day off, I'm eating way more fresh produce, cuz I have time to fix it). I had:
5 thin slices (about 8 ounces) of grilled tofu split between breakfast and dinner.
2 cups of this bean salad stuff that I make frequently (kidney beans, lentils, brown rice, kale, carrots, olive oil and vinegar)
A whole-wheat roll (Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes Per Day, holla!)
A tablespoon of garlic sauce (canola-oil based)
Raw kale and tomato
a plain 12oz soy latte (a weekly occurrence, roughly)
a cup of black coffee
lots of water with lime juice
When I eat out I'm sure I get more sugar (Thai food is SO sweet) and processed crap than I would feed myself, but I'm broke as a mutherfucker, so I don't eat out too much. A few times per month, maybe, including veggie pho nights.
I'm moderately active, largely because I don't feel sane otherwise. What that has looked like over the course of my life has varied a lot (without corresponding changes in weight), and there's a lot of seasonal variation. Right now, that looks like 35 hours a week at a job where I maybe spend 30 minutes sitting down on an average day. On days off, I walk at least 2 miles. I swim at least once per week when it's warm out. Come August, there will almost always be a swimsuit drying in my bathroom. A couple times per month I go for a 6-8 mile hike, or a 2-4 hour paddle (via kayak). I've usually incorporated some strength training in the past, but usually at the gym, and I don't have a gym membership right now ($), so I'm trying to figure out the best way to get that back into my life. I'm not an athlete (and I have pretty severe exercise-induced asthma, so I'll never run a marathon), and I obviously spend plenty of time in front of my computer. But I move.
In the past, when I was struggling with some anxiety issues, I spent about 6 months working out 3+ hours, 4-5 days per week. Just because I wanted to be able to sleep at night, basically. I was also depressed, which for me means eating less. I didn't lose any weight. I know that seems to violate laws of thermodynamics. Don't know what to tell ya. I didn't.
I lost weight once, in middle/high school. I worked out an hour per day, but mostly I starved myself. I ate less than 1000 calories every day. I felt like crap. I was lightheaded (and actually passed out a couple of times, once in front of my very worried parents). I'd be walking across campus and have to sit down on the ground because I'd get dizzy and shaky all of a sudden. It was awful. But I lost weight, and people were nicer to me! Then I started college and actually needed to be functional, so I started eating enough to get through the day without being sick, and whaddaya know. . . all the weight came back.
Everybody in my family is overweight. I'm a bit smaller than they are (which is frightening), because they actually don't take good care of themselves, to varying degrees. But not that much smaller.
I've been in long-term, live-in relationships with a few skinny people. None of them ate less than me. Only one was more active; the others were computer geeks who rarely did anything not involving a glowing screen. One of those geeks struggled to keep weight on, despite his 2-liter-a-day soda habit. Again, I have to wonder about those laws of thermodynamics.
So, Rob, and the rest of you who know that I'm actually a lazy glutton just by looking at me. . . there ya go. What would you have me do?
I'm not claiming to be typical. But I am claiming to EXIST, which seriously undermines a lot of claims and assumptions.
87
@83 You don't sound fat to me. From your description you just sound healthy. You are a girl on the taller, bigger boned end of the scale, and I doubt anyone would look at you and think Lard Ass. Not even Dan. I agree that we don't always know why people are the weight that they are, but can we not also agree that eating right and exercising, the way you do, would be beneficial to even those genetically prone to carrying more weight?
88
Rob, I'm telling you, the math isn't the same for everybody. The 4+ hours may not be an exaggeration. I know that flies in the face of what you "know", but what you know is wrong.
Explain this to me, ok? Let's do it. I'll break it down on this here internet, I don't mind.
I'm 5'9" and weigh 250lbs. Very overweight.
My blood pressure, sugar, and cholesterol levels are perfect. I do have polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), which can affect weight, but I haven't always had that, and I've always been fat, so I don't really think that's the issue.
I'm a pre-med student with a longstanding interest in nutrition, fitness, and overall health. I got a 4.0 in my human nutrition course. I haz teh knowings.
I'm a non-religious vegan (meaning, I ask the waiter to hold the egg, but I don't ask them to check if the noodles have egg IN them). I get plenty of protein (I don't feel well on a carb-centric diet). I cook 95% of my food from scratch. REALLY from scratch; from bags of single-ingredient food (at this point, I'm making my own ketchup, fer fuck's sake) and fresh produce. Yesterday's food intake was fairly typical for a workday (on a day off, I'm eating way more fresh produce, cuz I have time to fix it). I had:
5 thin slices (about 8 ounces) of grilled tofu split between breakfast and dinner.
2 cups of this bean salad stuff that I make frequently (kidney beans, lentils, brown rice, kale, carrots, olive oil and vinegar)
A whole-wheat roll (Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes Per Day, holla!)
A tablespoon of garlic sauce (canola-oil based)
Raw kale and tomato
a plain 12oz soy latte (a weekly occurrence, roughly)
a cup of black coffee
lots of water with lime juice
When I eat out I'm sure I get more sugar (Thai food is SO sweet) and processed crap than I would feed myself, but I'm broke as a mutherfucker, so I don't eat out too much. A few times per month, maybe, including veggie pho nights.
I'm moderately active, largely because I don't feel sane otherwise. What that has looked like over the course of my life has varied a lot (without corresponding changes in weight), and there's a lot of seasonal variation. Right now, that looks like 35 hours a week at a job where I maybe spend 30 minutes sitting down on an average day. On days off, I walk at least 2 miles. I swim at least once per week when it's warm out. Come August, there will almost always be a swimsuit drying in my bathroom. A couple times per month I go for a 6-8 mile hike, or a 2-4 hour paddle (via kayak). I've usually incorporated some strength training in the past, but usually at the gym, and I don't have a gym membership right now ($), so I'm trying to figure out the best way to get that back into my life. I'm not an athlete (and I have pretty severe exercise-induced asthma, so I'll never run a marathon), and I obviously spend plenty of time in front of my computer. But I move.
In the past, when I was struggling with some anxiety issues, I spent about 6 months working out 3+ hours, 4-5 days per week. Just because I wanted to be able to sleep at night, basically. I was also depressed, which for me means eating less. I didn't lose any weight. I know that seems to violate laws of thermodynamics. Don't know what to tell ya. I didn't.
I lost weight once, in middle/high school. I worked out an hour per day, but mostly I starved myself. I ate less than 1000 calories every day. I felt like crap. I was lightheaded (and actually passed out a couple of times, once in front of my very worried parents). I'd be walking across campus and have to sit down on the ground because I'd get dizzy and shaky all of a sudden. It was awful. But I lost weight, and people were nicer to me! Then I started college and actually needed to be functional, so I started eating enough to get through the day without being sick, and whaddaya know. . . all the weight came back.
Everybody in my family is overweight. I'm a bit smaller than they are (which is frightening), because they actually don't take good care of themselves, to varying degrees. But not that much smaller.
I've been in long-term, live-in relationships with a few skinny people. None of them ate less than me. Only one was more active; the others were computer geeks who rarely did anything not involving a glowing screen. One of those geeks struggled to keep weight on, despite his 2-liter-a-day soda habit. Again, I have to wonder about those laws of thermodynamics.
So, Rob, and the rest of you who know that I'm actually a lazy glutton just by looking at me. . . there ya go. What would you have me do?
I'm not claiming to be typical. But I am claiming to EXIST, which seriously undermines a lot of claims and assumptions.
More...
Explain this to me, ok? Let's do it. I'll break it down on this here internet, I don't mind.
I'm 5'9" and weigh 250lbs. Very overweight.
My blood pressure, sugar, and cholesterol levels are perfect. I do have polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), which can affect weight, but I haven't always had that, and I've always been fat, so I don't really think that's the issue.
I'm a pre-med student with a longstanding interest in nutrition, fitness, and overall health. I got a 4.0 in my human nutrition course. I haz teh knowings.
I'm a non-religious vegan (meaning, I ask the waiter to hold the egg, but I don't ask them to check if the noodles have egg IN them). I get plenty of protein (I don't feel well on a carb-centric diet). I cook 95% of my food from scratch. REALLY from scratch; from bags of single-ingredient food (at this point, I'm making my own ketchup, fer fuck's sake) and fresh produce. Yesterday's food intake was fairly typical for a workday (on a day off, I'm eating way more fresh produce, cuz I have time to fix it). I had:
5 thin slices (about 8 ounces) of grilled tofu split between breakfast and dinner.
2 cups of this bean salad stuff that I make frequently (kidney beans, lentils, brown rice, kale, carrots, olive oil and vinegar)
A whole-wheat roll (Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes Per Day, holla!)
A tablespoon of garlic sauce (canola-oil based)
Raw kale and tomato
a plain 12oz soy latte (a weekly occurrence, roughly)
a cup of black coffee
lots of water with lime juice
When I eat out I'm sure I get more sugar (Thai food is SO sweet) and processed crap than I would feed myself, but I'm broke as a mutherfucker, so I don't eat out too much. A few times per month, maybe, including veggie pho nights.
I'm moderately active, largely because I don't feel sane otherwise. What that has looked like over the course of my life has varied a lot (without corresponding changes in weight), and there's a lot of seasonal variation. Right now, that looks like 35 hours a week at a job where I maybe spend 30 minutes sitting down on an average day. On days off, I walk at least 2 miles. I swim at least once per week when it's warm out. Come August, there will almost always be a swimsuit drying in my bathroom. A couple times per month I go for a 6-8 mile hike, or a 2-4 hour paddle (via kayak). I've usually incorporated some strength training in the past, but usually at the gym, and I don't have a gym membership right now ($), so I'm trying to figure out the best way to get that back into my life. I'm not an athlete (and I have pretty severe exercise-induced asthma, so I'll never run a marathon), and I obviously spend plenty of time in front of my computer. But I move.
In the past, when I was struggling with some anxiety issues, I spent about 6 months working out 3+ hours, 4-5 days per week. Just because I wanted to be able to sleep at night, basically. I was also depressed, which for me means eating less. I didn't lose any weight. I know that seems to violate laws of thermodynamics. Don't know what to tell ya. I didn't.
I lost weight once, in middle/high school. I worked out an hour per day, but mostly I starved myself. I ate less than 1000 calories every day. I felt like crap. I was lightheaded (and actually passed out a couple of times, once in front of my very worried parents). I'd be walking across campus and have to sit down on the ground because I'd get dizzy and shaky all of a sudden. It was awful. But I lost weight, and people were nicer to me! Then I started college and actually needed to be functional, so I started eating enough to get through the day without being sick, and whaddaya know. . . all the weight came back.
Everybody in my family is overweight. I'm a bit smaller than they are (which is frightening), because they actually don't take good care of themselves, to varying degrees. But not that much smaller.
I've been in long-term, live-in relationships with a few skinny people. None of them ate less than me. Only one was more active; the others were computer geeks who rarely did anything not involving a glowing screen. One of those geeks struggled to keep weight on, despite his 2-liter-a-day soda habit. Again, I have to wonder about those laws of thermodynamics.
So, Rob, and the rest of you who know that I'm actually a lazy glutton just by looking at me. . . there ya go. What would you have me do?
I'm not claiming to be typical. But I am claiming to EXIST, which seriously undermines a lot of claims and assumptions.
89
(sorry for the double-post. . . anybody else getting tons of "internal server errors" around here lately?)
90
83) I'm not going to argue your diet and exercise issues since I cannot assess the truthfulness of your claims. (Although you do admit to eating stuff you know is bad for you.) If you are being honest that you over all eat a healthy diet, with the occasional treat, and you exercise regularly, and are still overweight, that would make you the exception to the rule. The vast, and ever growing majority of obese people are so because of bad habits. Mostly it's a bad diet, but the lack of exercise doesn't help.
I have a lot of friends who also are overweight. I love them, but I also see what they eat, and how little they move. They know it too, and will admit it. When they ask me, I tell them the truth about how I stay thin. I exercise almost everyday, and eat a careful diet. They don't want to do that.
Again, stating truths about obesity isn't being horrid, or hateful. It's a growing serious health issue in this country. It cannot be blamed on genes, as the gene pool hasn't changed drastically over the last 20 or 30 years. What has changed are people's habits.
I've googled the words you suggested, and have gotten a lot of blog posts by other people saying Dan Savage hates fat people, but they never really give a quote that where he says he hates fat people.
I have a lot of friends who also are overweight. I love them, but I also see what they eat, and how little they move. They know it too, and will admit it. When they ask me, I tell them the truth about how I stay thin. I exercise almost everyday, and eat a careful diet. They don't want to do that.
Again, stating truths about obesity isn't being horrid, or hateful. It's a growing serious health issue in this country. It cannot be blamed on genes, as the gene pool hasn't changed drastically over the last 20 or 30 years. What has changed are people's habits.
I've googled the words you suggested, and have gotten a lot of blog posts by other people saying Dan Savage hates fat people, but they never really give a quote that where he says he hates fat people.
91
@89 yeah I'm getting that same error message. Since last night actually. Btw, you sound like a pretty good cook. I am envious of people with that skill. I once actually called my mother in tears to ask her "how brown is brown" when browning something. Don't get me started on gravy.
92
@87, of course it's beneficial to exercise and eat well. I never said it wasn't. All I'm saying is that you can't tell what someone's habits are just by looking at them, you don't know if that fat person you just passed on the street is a binge eater or a marathon runner, and we as a society should not judge others based on their body size. Just as we shouldn't judge by skin color, sexual orientation, et cetera.
For instance, take a gander at Violet_DaGrinder's post @88. (BTW, Violet, how do you make your own ketchup? I would LOVE to try that, making whatever you can from scratch is so much fun. I've been making my own jams for a few years now and they're so much better than store-bought.) Someone who sees her on the street might assume she's a fatty fat fat who crams Twinkies down her gullet every night while she sits in front of the TV. But she sounds healthier than most thin people I know.
I may not seem fat to YOU, but only a few years ago, at this exact same size, a man post-coitally compared me to Jabba the Hutt. Just last year, another man dumped me for being "very, very obese". Both of these men, by the way, were carrying plenty of extra body fat themselves. I have had full soda cups and half-eaten burgers thrown at me from moving vehicles as I walked along the side of the road. I have been told for years and years and years that I have such a pretty face, and it's a shame about my body. I am too fat to be a plus-size model, despite the fact that I am just a little bit larger than the average size American woman (around 5 foot 6 and a size 14, if I remember the stats correctly).
You are judging me against the stereotypical image of a fat person -- someone who gets no exercise, eats nothing but sugary fatty junk food, and can't understand why they're not Gisele Bundchen. That stereotype is about as accurate as the stereotypical sex-crazed, effeminate, shrill, queeny gay man -- which is to say those people DO exist, but they are not what all gay men are like. I'm sure there are fat people out there who fit that stereotypical description, but they are the exception and not the rule in my experience. Basically, you are equating "fat" with "bad", or "slovenly", or "undisciplined", or whatever negative adjective you want to throw in there. "Fat" is just a descriptor, it is not a moral judgement, but a large majority of society tends to turn it into a moral judgement.
You know what? Go read this, it sums up a lot of arguments better than I have time to do right now. (I know Kate Harding and the size acceptance movement are reviled around here so I will probably be mocked for this, but tough.) http://kateharding.net/but-dont-you-real…
More...
For instance, take a gander at Violet_DaGrinder's post @88. (BTW, Violet, how do you make your own ketchup? I would LOVE to try that, making whatever you can from scratch is so much fun. I've been making my own jams for a few years now and they're so much better than store-bought.) Someone who sees her on the street might assume she's a fatty fat fat who crams Twinkies down her gullet every night while she sits in front of the TV. But she sounds healthier than most thin people I know.
I may not seem fat to YOU, but only a few years ago, at this exact same size, a man post-coitally compared me to Jabba the Hutt. Just last year, another man dumped me for being "very, very obese". Both of these men, by the way, were carrying plenty of extra body fat themselves. I have had full soda cups and half-eaten burgers thrown at me from moving vehicles as I walked along the side of the road. I have been told for years and years and years that I have such a pretty face, and it's a shame about my body. I am too fat to be a plus-size model, despite the fact that I am just a little bit larger than the average size American woman (around 5 foot 6 and a size 14, if I remember the stats correctly).
You are judging me against the stereotypical image of a fat person -- someone who gets no exercise, eats nothing but sugary fatty junk food, and can't understand why they're not Gisele Bundchen. That stereotype is about as accurate as the stereotypical sex-crazed, effeminate, shrill, queeny gay man -- which is to say those people DO exist, but they are not what all gay men are like. I'm sure there are fat people out there who fit that stereotypical description, but they are the exception and not the rule in my experience. Basically, you are equating "fat" with "bad", or "slovenly", or "undisciplined", or whatever negative adjective you want to throw in there. "Fat" is just a descriptor, it is not a moral judgement, but a large majority of society tends to turn it into a moral judgement.
You know what? Go read this, it sums up a lot of arguments better than I have time to do right now. (I know Kate Harding and the size acceptance movement are reviled around here so I will probably be mocked for this, but tough.) http://kateharding.net/but-dont-you-real…
93
Violet @ 89,
Yes, I'm getting tons of "internal server errors".
Best wishes with the pre-med, I gave the dream up after a year at med school.
You sound strong to me. Thank you for sharing. I hope to meet you some day.
Yes, I'm getting tons of "internal server errors".
Best wishes with the pre-med, I gave the dream up after a year at med school.
You sound strong to me. Thank you for sharing. I hope to meet you some day.
94
Rob, it's really not necessary to call me a liar -- and yes, you did, even though you didn't have the balls to come right out and say it. Also, do you eschew all foods except fruits and vegetables? Or because you are thin, does that mean you are allowed to eat whatever you like, but because I am heavy I must stick to a strict diet? Because that's the biggest pile of crap I've ever heard.
Please see Violet Da_Grinder's post @88. We are not the exceptions to the rule. WE ARE the rule.
Please see Violet Da_Grinder's post @88. We are not the exceptions to the rule. WE ARE the rule.
95
@92
I mix half tomato puree, half tomato paste, a pinch of salt, and a splash of balsamic vinegar. If you want a more conventional flavor, you'd use plain vinegar, and some sort of sweetener as well.
@93
I'm very curious about your med-school experience. Drop me a line next time you're gonna be in Seattle. . . tackam at u dot washington dot edu. :)
I mix half tomato puree, half tomato paste, a pinch of salt, and a splash of balsamic vinegar. If you want a more conventional flavor, you'd use plain vinegar, and some sort of sweetener as well.
@93
I'm very curious about your med-school experience. Drop me a line next time you're gonna be in Seattle. . . tackam at u dot washington dot edu. :)
96
94, I didn't call you a liar. I don't know you. I cannot speak either way to your truthfulness. I just don't take everything I read on the internet as gospel truth. (Which is why I asked for you to link to a quote where Dan says he hates fat people. I can't find one.)
I don't eat whatever I want. I said that quite clearly. People thinking they should just be able eat what ever they want, whenever they want is why this country has an obesity problem.
I read Violet's post, and stand by my statement. Two people on the internet do not make the norm. The vast majority of obese people (every year the number goes up) in this country are so because of bad habits.
I don't eat whatever I want. I said that quite clearly. People thinking they should just be able eat what ever they want, whenever they want is why this country has an obesity problem.
I read Violet's post, and stand by my statement. Two people on the internet do not make the norm. The vast majority of obese people (every year the number goes up) in this country are so because of bad habits.
97
@94
Even if we are exceptions, it proves that the simplistic view of weight management is wrong. Everybody is not the same. It's not as simple as calories in/calories out; the individual body that they go in and out of is entirely relevant.
Yes, most Americans have unhealthy lifestyles. Many of them are fat because of it. Many are unhealthy without being fat. People who justify their nastiness by saying that they really just have a deep concern for public health. . . make sure you spend equal time yelling at the skinny unhealthy people, ok? It's only fair.
Or maybe you could just worry about being healthy yourself, and then focus on showing kindness and compassion towards others, even if they aren't as fucking awesome as you are, you skinny superhero, you! That would be another option.
Even if we are exceptions, it proves that the simplistic view of weight management is wrong. Everybody is not the same. It's not as simple as calories in/calories out; the individual body that they go in and out of is entirely relevant.
Yes, most Americans have unhealthy lifestyles. Many of them are fat because of it. Many are unhealthy without being fat. People who justify their nastiness by saying that they really just have a deep concern for public health. . . make sure you spend equal time yelling at the skinny unhealthy people, ok? It's only fair.
Or maybe you could just worry about being healthy yourself, and then focus on showing kindness and compassion towards others, even if they aren't as fucking awesome as you are, you skinny superhero, you! That would be another option.
98
Rob, by stating that you're not going to argue my "claims" and that "if [I'm] being honest" about my eating habits blah blah, YES, you are calling me a liar. You asked me several very prying questions about my diet and exercise habits, which I answered truthfully, and then you said you don't take everything you read as gospel truth. Then why even bother to ask, if you're going to assume whatever you want about me?
99
And Rob, Dan never said that he "hates" fat people. He's not stupid. He just makes a point of posting every single pop-media story that comes along about how awful it is to be fat, how it's All Our Fault, and look at these fatasses in Michigan, ha ha ha! He's merely contributing to the cultural norm of looking down on fat people. He's just encouraging the prejudice and abuse that we are expected to accept.
Which doesn't help. Do all y'all realize that? If you're really concerned about a fat person's health, contributing to the sense of self-loathing that our culture tries SO HARD to impose is really not going to make a positive difference. Emotional abuse does not help people make better choices. Fat people know that they're fat, and most of them would like to be thin, so if you think ridicule is going to open our eyes somehow, well, sorry. Not so much.
Which doesn't help. Do all y'all realize that? If you're really concerned about a fat person's health, contributing to the sense of self-loathing that our culture tries SO HARD to impose is really not going to make a positive difference. Emotional abuse does not help people make better choices. Fat people know that they're fat, and most of them would like to be thin, so if you think ridicule is going to open our eyes somehow, well, sorry. Not so much.
100
I am flabbergasted by those who say it's not worth it to them to try to regularly exercise or get in shape...going as far as calling it PUNISHING oneself.
No, by conceding defeat to your bad habits, THAT's punishing oneself.
You're punishing yourself by limiting your ability to participate in fun activities.
You're punishing yourself by shortening your life span.
You're punishing yourself by perhaps not being able to land the kind of guy or girl you want/deserve
You're punishing yourself by not being comfortable 3 months of the year when it is hot outside and you are dismayed by wearing summer clothes or being invited to the beach
You're punishing yourself by taxing your body far worse, perpetually, every day, which is way worse than your temporary discomfort in exercising.
You're punishing yourself by going through another Thanksgiving or Christmas wishing you would have worked at it to make your family or friends proud/jealous (come on now, ladies!!!)
You're punishing yourself by sitting in that chair right now, formulating yet another excuse or defense on the internet, rather than doing something, anything, for yourself.
+1million other ways that only you might know about.
GET. REAL.
No, by conceding defeat to your bad habits, THAT's punishing oneself.
You're punishing yourself by limiting your ability to participate in fun activities.
You're punishing yourself by shortening your life span.
You're punishing yourself by perhaps not being able to land the kind of guy or girl you want/deserve
You're punishing yourself by not being comfortable 3 months of the year when it is hot outside and you are dismayed by wearing summer clothes or being invited to the beach
You're punishing yourself by taxing your body far worse, perpetually, every day, which is way worse than your temporary discomfort in exercising.
You're punishing yourself by going through another Thanksgiving or Christmas wishing you would have worked at it to make your family or friends proud/jealous (come on now, ladies!!!)
You're punishing yourself by sitting in that chair right now, formulating yet another excuse or defense on the internet, rather than doing something, anything, for yourself.
+1million other ways that only you might know about.
GET. REAL.
101
@98
It's really, really hard any time we have to face the reality that the world is less black-and-white then we thought. I've found it to be the hardest thing about growing up, personally. And I constantly watch other people struggle with it, and I know. It requires a lot of admission that one was wrong, or at least, not as right as they thought they were. Nobody likes admitting that.
Black and white. Fat and thin. Healthy and unhealthy. Rules and exceptions. Me and you.
It's just never that simple.
It's really, really hard any time we have to face the reality that the world is less black-and-white then we thought. I've found it to be the hardest thing about growing up, personally. And I constantly watch other people struggle with it, and I know. It requires a lot of admission that one was wrong, or at least, not as right as they thought they were. Nobody likes admitting that.
Black and white. Fat and thin. Healthy and unhealthy. Rules and exceptions. Me and you.
It's just never that simple.
102
@100, I believe I'm the only person here that's said they're not willing to punish themselves with an exercise regime. However, you neglected to mention that I said I wouldn't punish myself with A DAILY FOUR HOUR WORKOUT. I think most sane people would recognize that as punishing.
103
Haunted, I know you said it, and I omitted calling you out @79 because 100 is more of a generalized statement on the excuse of how HARDDDD it is to exercise. It wasn't meant to be a personal attack on you. It was meant to be an attack on that idea.
104
97, Even if it's not true for you or Haunted, for the vast majority of people it is as simple as calories in and calories out.
In Dan's comments I see some deserved snarkiness about the state of the average American's diet, and the resulting waistlines, but I don't see nastiness. It is true, there are people who are underweight, and that's not healthy either. You can yell at them, but it's not a growing epidemic as is obesity.
I don't care about your weight. I only added a very civil comment because Haunted said she didn't want to be fat.
In Dan's comments I see some deserved snarkiness about the state of the average American's diet, and the resulting waistlines, but I don't see nastiness. It is true, there are people who are underweight, and that's not healthy either. You can yell at them, but it's not a growing epidemic as is obesity.
I don't care about your weight. I only added a very civil comment because Haunted said she didn't want to be fat.
105
Hey, @100, do you listen to anything beyond the sound of your own voice?
Every single assumption you make there is wrong, for at least some of us. All of them.
I am not punishing myself, in any of those ways.
Well, OK, maaaaybe the last one, a little bit, about being here on the internet, arguing with people who need to feel superior to others, and who will never give that up. I mean, it sort of feels like punishment. But I actually am doing something for myself. I'm DEFENDING myself. Against you.
How does it make you feel that somebody you don't even know has to do that? Is that ok with you?
Maybe YOU should get off of the internet and work on being a better human being. Because, by being an asshole, I don't know if you're punishing yourself. . . but you're punishing us. :)
Every single assumption you make there is wrong, for at least some of us. All of them.
I am not punishing myself, in any of those ways.
Well, OK, maaaaybe the last one, a little bit, about being here on the internet, arguing with people who need to feel superior to others, and who will never give that up. I mean, it sort of feels like punishment. But I actually am doing something for myself. I'm DEFENDING myself. Against you.
How does it make you feel that somebody you don't even know has to do that? Is that ok with you?
Maybe YOU should get off of the internet and work on being a better human being. Because, by being an asshole, I don't know if you're punishing yourself. . . but you're punishing us. :)
106
@104
You are being civil, but you're not being helpful (much like Dan). I hope you see that.
I'm not talking about skinny people being unhealthy because they're underweight. I'm talking about skinny people with high blood pressure, high cholesterol, cancer. . . much of it due to lifestyle. Colon cancer is highly correlated with diet. Why don't we post pictures of cancer patients on the internet so that we can trash them in always-lengthy comment threads? Mm?
Because that would be socially unacceptable.
You are being civil, but you're not being helpful (much like Dan). I hope you see that.
I'm not talking about skinny people being unhealthy because they're underweight. I'm talking about skinny people with high blood pressure, high cholesterol, cancer. . . much of it due to lifestyle. Colon cancer is highly correlated with diet. Why don't we post pictures of cancer patients on the internet so that we can trash them in always-lengthy comment threads? Mm?
Because that would be socially unacceptable.
107
98, I also said I didn't expect or want you to answer my questions in this forum. What would be the point? As I said, I can't assess your diet and exercise routines, nor do I want to. I only wanted you to consider my point of view.
108
But fine, Haunted, I'll take you on. HERE'S THE DEAL.
You are a liar. Yep. You are a liar. You are lying to yourself and to everyone here when you say that nothing works for you and that it would take 4 hours a day.
You, like most people who say that changing their diet doesn't work for them, omit and ignore all of the stuff that sabatoges you.
For instance, in the same breath that you make the claims:
-I live in the city and have not owned a car for the past decade
-I work out daily (that's 30-45 minutes of 85% maximum heart rate cardio, plus toning work on alternate days
- I work with a personal trainer)
-although some weeks I take a day or two off,
-I eat healthy fresh foods (lots of fruits and veggies, some whole grains, and lean proteins). -I do not eat until I am overfull and sick-feeling.
You go on to casually acknowledge that If I want a brownie, I have a fucking brownie.
How often do you just have what you fucking want? Then ignore that and think the positives steps you are making just AREN'T working..and damn it, it must be genetic!!!! I must have to work out 4 hours a day!!!
GET. REAL. get honest. get accurate. get healthy. get off the internet.
You are a liar. Yep. You are a liar. You are lying to yourself and to everyone here when you say that nothing works for you and that it would take 4 hours a day.
You, like most people who say that changing their diet doesn't work for them, omit and ignore all of the stuff that sabatoges you.
For instance, in the same breath that you make the claims:
-I live in the city and have not owned a car for the past decade
-I work out daily (that's 30-45 minutes of 85% maximum heart rate cardio, plus toning work on alternate days
- I work with a personal trainer)
-although some weeks I take a day or two off,
-I eat healthy fresh foods (lots of fruits and veggies, some whole grains, and lean proteins). -I do not eat until I am overfull and sick-feeling.
You go on to casually acknowledge that If I want a brownie, I have a fucking brownie.
How often do you just have what you fucking want? Then ignore that and think the positives steps you are making just AREN'T working..and damn it, it must be genetic!!!! I must have to work out 4 hours a day!!!
GET. REAL. get honest. get accurate. get healthy. get off the internet.
109
Wrong, 105. You ARE punishing yourself by taxing your body, your home which houses you, in extra ways that it does not need and is not designed for. You ARE punishing yourself by shortening your lifespan.
110
Aaaaannnd, I actually do have other stuff to do today. So, I'll see all of you, who undoubtedly think EXACTLY the same way that you did before you read this thread, after the next thematically-identical post from Savage. I'll still be fat, and you'll still judge me unfairly, and I'll still have the self-respect to stand up for myself, and it'll be SO MUCH FUN!!1! :-D *wave*
111
106, Yes there are skinny people who are unhealthy because of the conditions you mention, and maybe for the reasons you claim, but again that is not the rule. Overweight and obese people have more health issues than their thinner counterparts. I'm not trashing anyone. I don't see that Dan trashed anyone. The average American eats a lot more crap than years gone by, and their bodies show the results. I don't think that topic should be off limits just because it upsets people.
112
Oh, for pete's sake, StillNon. I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE, as I have said several times here, that in order for me to get into single-digit clothing sizes I would need to work out 4 hours a day. I know this because I did exactly that about five summers ago when I was unemployed and had the time to devote to such an insane workout regime. I also restricted my calories down to about 1000 a day. I dipped down into about a size 8 after three months of this. I also looked like shit, my skin was sallow and my hair was falling out. Once I started eating normally and working out only about a half hour a day (you know, like all us fatties are advised to do), I went back up to a size 16. Evidently this is where my body wants to be. Some people just carry more weight than others. It does not make us bad people.
I have whatever I want all the time. I like that you're harping on the brownie -- dude, I can't even remember the last time I had a brownie. That was simply an example of intuitive eating. I'm too busy plowing through local berries and amazingly tasty salad greens right now, because that's what I want to eat. If I wanted a brownie I would absolutely have one. If you want to deprive yourself of small occasional treats, that's your business and I'm sorry for you that you feel you need to live that way. However, it is your life and your decision and I respect your autonomy.
Call me a liar all you want, if that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself.
I have whatever I want all the time. I like that you're harping on the brownie -- dude, I can't even remember the last time I had a brownie. That was simply an example of intuitive eating. I'm too busy plowing through local berries and amazingly tasty salad greens right now, because that's what I want to eat. If I wanted a brownie I would absolutely have one. If you want to deprive yourself of small occasional treats, that's your business and I'm sorry for you that you feel you need to live that way. However, it is your life and your decision and I respect your autonomy.
Call me a liar all you want, if that's what it takes to make you feel better about yourself.
114
@ 108 So StillNon you have the leisure in your life to work out daily and have a personal trainer? Good for fucking you...the rest of us don't have that kind of leisure to devote 1.5 hours to the gym daily... because that what it takes me to get to gym, work out, shower, and get home. It must be nice to have the kind of "me" time and the personal trainer that you have! I know that the 2x per week gym schedule I fit in and my love for beer and cocktails aren't helping my weight but I really refuse to cut alcohol out of my diet and I don't have nearly as much me time as you. Stop being such a jackass okay?
115
Clarity 114 -- your reading comprehension skills need as much work as your body, appearantly.
I don't have a personal trainer, I was quoting Haunted Leg, who DOES. Yet remains fat.
I don't have a trainer, but manage to stay within my target range for optimum health.
Soooo....you admit that you won't cut the empty calories of booz but you will get defensive enough about it to make a show about it in a comment. Tell me, what is your excuse again?
You don't have the time, yet you have the time to be inebriated? If not drinking to get drunk, still consuming something you know is awful in and of itself (beer, in your case, versus brownies in others)
And you have the audacity to transform that into an excuse?
Again, it is the trade-off between convenience/ease/fun NOW versus long term, stabilized health.
I don't have a personal trainer, I was quoting Haunted Leg, who DOES. Yet remains fat.
I don't have a trainer, but manage to stay within my target range for optimum health.
Soooo....you admit that you won't cut the empty calories of booz but you will get defensive enough about it to make a show about it in a comment. Tell me, what is your excuse again?
You don't have the time, yet you have the time to be inebriated? If not drinking to get drunk, still consuming something you know is awful in and of itself (beer, in your case, versus brownies in others)
And you have the audacity to transform that into an excuse?
Again, it is the trade-off between convenience/ease/fun NOW versus long term, stabilized health.
116
I'd rather be around fat people any day than drunks or smokers.
My mom was morbidly obese...she had such severe rheumatoid arthritis that "getting off her fat ass and moving" was really not an option, unless she wanted to be in agony. Combine that with the medicine she took to try to control her disease that made her weight balloon up, and you have a recipe for obesity.
She had radical bypass surgery to lose weight when I was young, and in the end had to have it reversed because it almost killed her. Her body processed so little food that she was starving to death. Her weight ballooned back up after that, even though she ate no more than she had before.
Anyone on the outside could just assume that she was a lazy lard ass, because you don't know WTF is going on with someone else. Granted, for most people, being fat is their own fault. Some people, it's not. Why is it anyone's place to ridicule and find fault?
The fact is, fat people wear their issues on the outside, where it can be seen. If all you skinny whiners making nasty comments think you're so perfect, let's see YOUR issues manifest in your flesh, so we can all judge you as harshly for your "failures".
I have no problem with reasonable people saying "put down the fried food". It's the toxic attitude that some people display that tells you how nasty they must be to be around.
My mom was morbidly obese...she had such severe rheumatoid arthritis that "getting off her fat ass and moving" was really not an option, unless she wanted to be in agony. Combine that with the medicine she took to try to control her disease that made her weight balloon up, and you have a recipe for obesity.
She had radical bypass surgery to lose weight when I was young, and in the end had to have it reversed because it almost killed her. Her body processed so little food that she was starving to death. Her weight ballooned back up after that, even though she ate no more than she had before.
Anyone on the outside could just assume that she was a lazy lard ass, because you don't know WTF is going on with someone else. Granted, for most people, being fat is their own fault. Some people, it's not. Why is it anyone's place to ridicule and find fault?
The fact is, fat people wear their issues on the outside, where it can be seen. If all you skinny whiners making nasty comments think you're so perfect, let's see YOUR issues manifest in your flesh, so we can all judge you as harshly for your "failures".
I have no problem with reasonable people saying "put down the fried food". It's the toxic attitude that some people display that tells you how nasty they must be to be around.
117
StillNon,
Apologies for the reading comprehension...after the first 50 comments or so I admit to skimming. Anyhow, if living longer means hanging around with sober jerks like you then yeah pass me another pint!
Apologies for the reading comprehension...after the first 50 comments or so I admit to skimming. Anyhow, if living longer means hanging around with sober jerks like you then yeah pass me another pint!
118
Oh and appearantly you could use as some spelling help in addition to some willingness to live and let live.
119
Michigan may have more fat people than Washington State but we have got to have exponentially more politically correct whiners.
121
I love driving through Michigan because when I stop to eat, I can smoke inside for a change, and there are usually people around who are way fatter than me. Michigan has precious little else going for it, Dan. Please allow them their fatties and cigs.
122
121 comments without reading a single one and I can already guess what the hubbub is about.
Get some actual exercise and eat a better diet, people. All of you, whether fat or skinny, even if you think you're just right. There are a lot of people who don't get enough calcium and protein, and a lot of people who pay no mind to the crap they're stuffing their bodies with on both sides of the fence.
Get some actual exercise and eat a better diet, people. All of you, whether fat or skinny, even if you think you're just right. There are a lot of people who don't get enough calcium and protein, and a lot of people who pay no mind to the crap they're stuffing their bodies with on both sides of the fence.
123
Ugh: this discussion again so soon - remember Fat Chance? OK, we get it OMFG FAT = EVIL. I must echo 44. 99 also rocks. Thanks Kim & Violet.
Dan, this particular post seems to me like you just saw these people standing there, these admittedly wide-bottomed people who were nobody to you, snapped the pic of their rumps, & you could feel the snarkiness flow. "Oh, I'll say something about funnel cake. Just mean enough to be funny, & all those fat-haters & fat-hater-haters will bump me right up to the top of the comments pile." & these strangers will never know that you, clever city boy, are back home laughing at them.
In snark, you have succeeded. But drop the obesity issue, for now. This thread reads practically the same as the last time it came up, complete with innocent big-boned people & self-righteous health gurus. The smoking in eateries is a separate issue.
Dan, this particular post seems to me like you just saw these people standing there, these admittedly wide-bottomed people who were nobody to you, snapped the pic of their rumps, & you could feel the snarkiness flow. "Oh, I'll say something about funnel cake. Just mean enough to be funny, & all those fat-haters & fat-hater-haters will bump me right up to the top of the comments pile." & these strangers will never know that you, clever city boy, are back home laughing at them.
In snark, you have succeeded. But drop the obesity issue, for now. This thread reads practically the same as the last time it came up, complete with innocent big-boned people & self-righteous health gurus. The smoking in eateries is a separate issue.
124
To the big, fat (pun) argument about whether or not some individual with a healthy diet and moderate exercise could still be overweight/obese...did you people NEVER take statistics? Okay, let me break this down. "Normal" weight is an average. If we assume weights to be normally distributed, then 67% of people would fall into a "normal" weight range (one standard deviation from the median), presumably most of them with a rational diet and moderate exercise (remember that these numbers were analyzed before atkins and slimquick). 28% would either be "moderately" overweight or underweight (two standard deviations from the median). This should encapsulate the "overweight" BMI range (and a moderately underweight range does not exist under the current scale). 5% would be obese or very underweight. Logic holds that if you feed everyone the same "healthy" diet and give them the same level of moderate exercise, you're going to find a good number of overweight people (~14%, greater than the percentage of the population that is black or gay, BTW), and some obese people (~2.5%, a small number, but enough that most people will see them at least occasionally).
I've previously mentioned that I struggle mightily to stay in a normal weight range. I've been working with a dietitian for years. For months when I started this journey, I had to test my blood sugar three times after I ate or drank ANYTHING. Guess what? My insulin spikes (which causes calories to be stored as fat) after ANY HINT of sugar, as evidenced by an initial normal rise in blood sugar and then a spectacular crash of that blood sugar. This includes all fruit and things like potatoes and beets and even starchy whole grains like long-grain brown rice and whole-grain bread. Things that are left on my menu are lean meats, non-meat proteins (soy), beans, legumes, a few select whole grains (bulgar and quinoa don't seem to bother me much), and non-starchy vegetables. I DO have 5 servings of fruit A WEEK currently on my menu. The only things I can eat without weighing them are leafy greens (according to my RD, there's no way to eat enough spinach to get fat) and water. I haven't seen a "sweet" in 5 years. Aspartame is the devil, so while I'm technically allowed to have diet soda and sugar-free hard candy, I skip it. I might try Stevia to see how that goes, but that means more blood sugar tests to see if it f-s me up.
At the time that this plan was implemented by my dietitian, I attended aerobics class 7 days a week for an hour (dance, kickboxing, or step), had a physically demanding job that required regularly lifting heavy things, and walked about 3 miles a day. The initial phase, where all the junk was removed from my diet but I was left with whole grains and fruit on the menu, my weight only went down 5% in 4 months (and that all happened in the first month and then I was stuck again). After the stricter regimen was put in place, the weight loss resumed and I finally managed to lose the remaining 30% of my weight that I needed to over the next year. I now do far less physical activity, but my weight has held steady. I posted previously about new research that suggests that exercise may be futile in weight control.
Can you understand that (a) because normal weight is an average, certain individuals are going to be outside of the "normal" range; and (b) for those naturally outside of the normal range, it is super intense and very expensive (dietitians ain't cheap) to maintain a "normal" weight? If everyone ate a balanced diet and exercised moderately, approximately 14% of people would be overweight. That's a whole lot of people. Is it less than the number of people who are currently overweight? Yep. But the people with funnel cake problems give the rest of us a bad name. I actually have some co-workers who think I secretly go home and stuff myself with pizza and chocolate, and have said so to my face. Being unduly cruel to and accusing all overweight people of having no self-control or motivation leads to people treating everyone who isn't model thin as less than, which is a self-defeating cycle. What's the answer? I don't know. Certainly saying "it's okay to be overweight" and leaving it at that won't work. But the utter lack of understanding that SOME people are just naturally overweight displayed here (specifically by Rob, but also by others) is most definitely NOT part of that solution.
I guess I can be happy that my pancreas works really, really well...right?
More...
I've previously mentioned that I struggle mightily to stay in a normal weight range. I've been working with a dietitian for years. For months when I started this journey, I had to test my blood sugar three times after I ate or drank ANYTHING. Guess what? My insulin spikes (which causes calories to be stored as fat) after ANY HINT of sugar, as evidenced by an initial normal rise in blood sugar and then a spectacular crash of that blood sugar. This includes all fruit and things like potatoes and beets and even starchy whole grains like long-grain brown rice and whole-grain bread. Things that are left on my menu are lean meats, non-meat proteins (soy), beans, legumes, a few select whole grains (bulgar and quinoa don't seem to bother me much), and non-starchy vegetables. I DO have 5 servings of fruit A WEEK currently on my menu. The only things I can eat without weighing them are leafy greens (according to my RD, there's no way to eat enough spinach to get fat) and water. I haven't seen a "sweet" in 5 years. Aspartame is the devil, so while I'm technically allowed to have diet soda and sugar-free hard candy, I skip it. I might try Stevia to see how that goes, but that means more blood sugar tests to see if it f-s me up.
At the time that this plan was implemented by my dietitian, I attended aerobics class 7 days a week for an hour (dance, kickboxing, or step), had a physically demanding job that required regularly lifting heavy things, and walked about 3 miles a day. The initial phase, where all the junk was removed from my diet but I was left with whole grains and fruit on the menu, my weight only went down 5% in 4 months (and that all happened in the first month and then I was stuck again). After the stricter regimen was put in place, the weight loss resumed and I finally managed to lose the remaining 30% of my weight that I needed to over the next year. I now do far less physical activity, but my weight has held steady. I posted previously about new research that suggests that exercise may be futile in weight control.
Can you understand that (a) because normal weight is an average, certain individuals are going to be outside of the "normal" range; and (b) for those naturally outside of the normal range, it is super intense and very expensive (dietitians ain't cheap) to maintain a "normal" weight? If everyone ate a balanced diet and exercised moderately, approximately 14% of people would be overweight. That's a whole lot of people. Is it less than the number of people who are currently overweight? Yep. But the people with funnel cake problems give the rest of us a bad name. I actually have some co-workers who think I secretly go home and stuff myself with pizza and chocolate, and have said so to my face. Being unduly cruel to and accusing all overweight people of having no self-control or motivation leads to people treating everyone who isn't model thin as less than, which is a self-defeating cycle. What's the answer? I don't know. Certainly saying "it's okay to be overweight" and leaving it at that won't work. But the utter lack of understanding that SOME people are just naturally overweight displayed here (specifically by Rob, but also by others) is most definitely NOT part of that solution.
I guess I can be happy that my pancreas works really, really well...right?
125
Pretty much your entire statistical argument depends on where the standard deviations are, D. And unless you can throw down some numbers, we can't really prove or disprove your postulate... so running with it is kind of rash.
Obviously, if much of the population eats junk and lives sedentary lives, the average weight is going to go up. That doesn't mean the revised average weight is good, just because it's the new average.
And I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you need to cut down not just on your sugar intake, but your intake of sugar substitutes, which haven't really been scientifically verified as safe for our long-term health. Mix in more protein and simple carbs. I get sugar cravings too but I don't follow up on them 9 times out of 10. The sweet tooth needs to hit the shelf for good until your health turns around. Cut out sweets of any kind and I bet most of your diabetic problems disappear and your exercise begins to pay off.
Obviously, if much of the population eats junk and lives sedentary lives, the average weight is going to go up. That doesn't mean the revised average weight is good, just because it's the new average.
And I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you need to cut down not just on your sugar intake, but your intake of sugar substitutes, which haven't really been scientifically verified as safe for our long-term health. Mix in more protein and simple carbs. I get sugar cravings too but I don't follow up on them 9 times out of 10. The sweet tooth needs to hit the shelf for good until your health turns around. Cut out sweets of any kind and I bet most of your diabetic problems disappear and your exercise begins to pay off.
126
Gomez, you are a fat ass. Your argument is invalid:
http://pics.livejournal.com/gomezticator…
Take your own advice and "Get some actual exercise and eat a better diet" you hypopcrite.
Hey where is your chin or neck? Your head just like, tapers down slightly.
http://pics.livejournal.com/gomezticator…
Take your own advice and "Get some actual exercise and eat a better diet" you hypopcrite.
Hey where is your chin or neck? Your head just like, tapers down slightly.
127
Gomez, your reading comprehension needs a serious check -- Ms. D's post indicates she has not eaten sweets in 5 years.
Maybe Ms. D should continue taking advice from her endocrinologist, primary care physician and dietician, instead of you.
Maybe Ms. D should continue taking advice from her endocrinologist, primary care physician and dietician, instead of you.
128
Your tolerance of the Bethany/Seling fetish with cupcakes has become more disgusting than I can bear. It betrays more than a little of your willingness to submit to influence. She (...) recently entered a Pagliacci to announce (amidst her braids and logo-ed backpacks) that she had secured the purchase of a FURBIE! "Isn't it AMAZING?!!" she asked of the staff.
Yes, (Bethany/Seling), the furbie is amazing. The cupcakes taste like childhood. Your silly wardrobe reminds me of first grade. Good for you!
Dan, can we now not move on? Honestly... are we not adults here?
Yes, (Bethany/Seling), the furbie is amazing. The cupcakes taste like childhood. Your silly wardrobe reminds me of first grade. Good for you!
Dan, can we now not move on? Honestly... are we not adults here?
130
Speaking of FAT;
Does The Stranger provide Health Insurance for it's LardAssed employees, interns and their families?
Does The Stranger provide Health Insurance for it's LardAssed employees, interns and their families?
131
126. I'm 5'10", around 170 and all my pictures are close up from low angles, so yeah I look muy gordo, don't I?. Sorry about not being able to ditch the gullet, but you don't know what you're talking about if you haven't seen me IRL. Post a pic of yourself if we're going to trade shit-talk.
127. Sorry, I misread that she was using sugar substitutes.
The rest stands. We know what she's eating but we don't know how often she's eating, which is a huge factor in how her metabolism functions. If she's eating fewer than 5-6 meals a day every 2-3 hours, her metabolism's not getting enough help.
127. Sorry, I misread that she was using sugar substitutes.
The rest stands. We know what she's eating but we don't know how often she's eating, which is a huge factor in how her metabolism functions. If she's eating fewer than 5-6 meals a day every 2-3 hours, her metabolism's not getting enough help.
132
Gomez, I still think Ms. D should probably not take advice from you about her metabolism and how often she eats. I think her PCP, her endocrinologist, and her dietician probably can handle that. They're a lot more versed in treating chronic diseases than you are.
134
Would you take a picture of people standing around outside a gay bar or at a gay pride parade and caption it in a way that ridicules them? What would you think of someone who did?
135
132. The PCP and endo are in the business of selling her and keeping her hooked on drugs. They're going to always err on the side of giving her more drugs because that's how they make their money: They get kickbacks, plus the drugs will require repeat visits and subsequent procedures, all of which make them money. They don't make any money if they cure her ills and she attains, then maintains, a normal weight.
Also, the dietitian and all the others are no better than partially aware of her dietary and exercise habits because they can only go off of what she tells them, which may not necessarily reflect reality, and may not point some some problem habits or decisions that are undercutting her efforts. Since they can't monitor her 24/7, their POV is inherently limited.
Assuming she has been completely transparent, however, trusting a limited and biased POV implicitly has only gotten her this far. Should she keep trusting them now that they can't get her any farther?
Also, the dietitian and all the others are no better than partially aware of her dietary and exercise habits because they can only go off of what she tells them, which may not necessarily reflect reality, and may not point some some problem habits or decisions that are undercutting her efforts. Since they can't monitor her 24/7, their POV is inherently limited.
Assuming she has been completely transparent, however, trusting a limited and biased POV implicitly has only gotten her this far. Should she keep trusting them now that they can't get her any farther?
136
And since it'll come up, I am not calling D a liar. She is probably being as honest as she can manage. But there are probably little habits and things she isn't catching because they slip under her radar and it doesn't even occur to her to consider them. And obviously, things she never notices are things she's never going to tell her doctors, and they're never going to know.
137
Ah, yes, the classic "poor fatty's too dumb to REALLY understand" argument. Condescending, and usually misogynistic.
138
I do eat 6 times a day. I do weigh everything I eat. I NEVER consume sugar substitutes. Everything I eat is made fresh (yeah, I'm the asshole with my tupperware at the restaurant). I get plenty of protein, unsaturated fat, and a small amount of complex carbohydrates. The only things I drink are water and 8 ounces of unsweetened tea a day. Unless chewing my fingernails and/or pen is contributing significant calories to my diet, there's nothing else to cut or modify. This is what has been found to work after a lot of testing. Even my dietitian is astounded that I'm able to manage this (and she also hates sugar substitutes, but keeps them on her menu because, per her, I'm her ONLY client who won't cave and have a cookie without them). I've lost 30% of my peak body weight. If that's not effective, I don't know what will be. It took months of trying different things and tweaking to find what works. We tried various version of the AHA, Ornish, low fat, low carb, and every other nutrition plan to find the effective balance. I'm now within a normal weight range. I refuse to do any more to get thinner than I am.
My doctors are not in the business of selling me anything, at this moment. Sure, they get lots of money from me and my insurance company from repeat business, but I don't take any medications. They have offered me some of the new type II diabetes medications (off label) to level out my insulin production/usage and probably allow me to eat something resembling a normal diet, but I haven't accepted yet. My boyfriend would really like me to, because he's sick of having to leave my house if he wants a cookie (for the record, he's "unsure" how he would feel if I modified the plan to sanity w/o the meds. He thinks he would enjoy eating with me a lot more, and wouldn't care if I gained 10 or 15 lbs, but (a) doesn't want me to undo all my hard work, and (b) says he would freak out if I gained the 70 or so lbs back. I would freak out too). I don't know whether I would do it, because I don't like the idea of being dependent on a medication, but, my sky daddy, I would kill to be able to eat ONE SERVING of pasta or cake A MONTH!!!
More...
My doctors are not in the business of selling me anything, at this moment. Sure, they get lots of money from me and my insurance company from repeat business, but I don't take any medications. They have offered me some of the new type II diabetes medications (off label) to level out my insulin production/usage and probably allow me to eat something resembling a normal diet, but I haven't accepted yet. My boyfriend would really like me to, because he's sick of having to leave my house if he wants a cookie (for the record, he's "unsure" how he would feel if I modified the plan to sanity w/o the meds. He thinks he would enjoy eating with me a lot more, and wouldn't care if I gained 10 or 15 lbs, but (a) doesn't want me to undo all my hard work, and (b) says he would freak out if I gained the 70 or so lbs back. I would freak out too). I don't know whether I would do it, because I don't like the idea of being dependent on a medication, but, my sky daddy, I would kill to be able to eat ONE SERVING of pasta or cake A MONTH!!!
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Pill The Homos! by Dan Savage
-
Dear Huffington Post... by Dan Savage
-
Because Guns Make Us More Safer by Goldy
-
The Rick Santorum Rally in Tacoma Probably Could Have Gone Better by Paul Constant
-
Slog Bible Study: Deuteronomy 21:10-14 by Goldy
-
The AP Is Reporting That Whitney Houston Is Dead by Paul Constant
-
SL Letter of the Day: Daddy Loves Who? by Dan Savage
-
Because Guns Make Us Safer by Goldy
-
Gay Kids Are Still Killing Themselves by Dan Savage
-
Gregoire: "This is signed!" by Eli Sanders
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (139) RSS