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News & ArtsFriday, August 7, 2009
Homo Required Reading
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Jonathan Rauch's essay in the National Journal made me cry. Go read it.
1
just finished reading it myself and it not only made tears come to my eyes, it made me sad. I'd sure like to be there when he brings that board back out.
2
Wow... crying at work and getting strange looks was worth it to read that... I'm going to read it again.
3
dammit all to hell i've got an interview in 20 minutes and now i'm a mess..
but i'll keep the secret..
but i'll keep the secret..
4
I cried at my desk and then posted it to Facebook. Somehow, I think I might have let out the secret. Sorry!
6
Good stuff. The message is getting clearer and simpler, and thus harder and harder to refute without looking like a hateful lunatic. Hateful lunatics are always, always losers in the long run. THIS IS A HUMAN RIGHT.
Loveschild, where are you? You have nothing to say to these people, do you?
Loveschild, where are you? You have nothing to say to these people, do you?
11
Thank you for the link, Dan. I cried, too. Indeed there is hope. My own 65+ father, who voted yes on Prop 8, turned to me earlier this week and said he had decided that I (and my mom and husband) were right, marriage equality is needed in this country and we need to protect the civil rights of all families.
I'll seconded it, that article FTW.
I'll seconded it, that article FTW.
15
That is such an awesome and moving story. Thank you for linking to it, Dan. I wouldn't have found it otherwise.
17
I like the river analogy - they will be passed by if the nay sayers fail to recognize what is obvious to anyone who truly looks, and sees. They also will be worn away into nothingness.
19
So what do single people do?
Divorced?
Inbetween relationships?
Who makes medical decisions for them?
There are a lot of people who will still be left out in the cold even if Gay Marriage becomes legal.
Don't they count?
Are they entitled to any consideration?
If the problem is having someone to make critical medical decisions Gay Marriage is a poor solution that still descriminates against a lot of people.
Divorced?
Inbetween relationships?
Who makes medical decisions for them?
There are a lot of people who will still be left out in the cold even if Gay Marriage becomes legal.
Don't they count?
Are they entitled to any consideration?
If the problem is having someone to make critical medical decisions Gay Marriage is a poor solution that still descriminates against a lot of people.
20
The Ohio State University is very supportive of same-sex relationships, and provides health insurance benefits to same-sex partners, provided that they sign an affidavit that says they are in a long term relationship. All that in spite of a state ban on doing so. I think OSU is just waiting for someone to have the stupidity to sue them for doing it (they have a law school). Makes me proud to be a Buckeye.
21
Tears here, too. The more these genuine stories about love between real people are made known, the less grounds people will have to say that such relationships are somehow less than heterosexual marriage..
23
next of kin, dry hanky, next of kin. you are really fucking stupid. don't worry, loveschild (who really isn't a black woman) will be here soon enough, wailing that all she objects to is the word 'marriage', and that she isn't against civil unions or domestic partnership. she is so fucking predictable.
24
That was just lovely.
The argument that made my father, a card carrying Republican and no fan of the "gay agenda" begin to rethink his stance on gay marriage was when I pointed out that Rosie O'Donnell's partner was forced to testify against her in a lawsuit because there was no spousal protection clause at play. And even to him, the fact that a gay life partner has to produce PAPERWORK to prove medical power of attorney when all married people have to do is produce a wedding ring is an appalling miscarriage of justice.
And if my papa can come around on this, there's hope for the rest of the nation.
The argument that made my father, a card carrying Republican and no fan of the "gay agenda" begin to rethink his stance on gay marriage was when I pointed out that Rosie O'Donnell's partner was forced to testify against her in a lawsuit because there was no spousal protection clause at play. And even to him, the fact that a gay life partner has to produce PAPERWORK to prove medical power of attorney when all married people have to do is produce a wedding ring is an appalling miscarriage of justice.
And if my papa can come around on this, there's hope for the rest of the nation.
25
That's beautiful...sad that it had to be so difficult, but beautiful and hopeful...even if this administration fucks up on gay marriage and other issues, culture is moving in favor and there will eventually be victory.
26
Thank you so much for the link Dan. Yes...tears here too. That was beautiful. Rauch is absolutely right about the moral crossroad here.
30
I think Loveschild won this one. You are all just assuming she'll show up with her bigotry, and whats happening is you're propagating her hatred for her, so she doesn't actually have to say anything at all. Good job feeding the trolls.
That said, this story was very uplifting and sad. No tears on my part, but I'm not currently present in a place where tears could be shed.
That said, this story was very uplifting and sad. No tears on my part, but I'm not currently present in a place where tears could be shed.
31
Haven't read it, but 19 has a point. Not all single people are in a position to turn to next of kin. Think about that.
32
oh. my. god.
Here's where I first cried:
"By Thanksgiving, Bill was stable enough to be brought out of sedation. As he drifted in and out of consciousness, he formulated a plan. Tubes and a tracheostomy prevented talking, but almost as soon as he could write on a whiteboard, he scrawled a message for Mike. "Will you marry me?"
Mike broke down. "I cried. It was tears of joy." "
That is BEAUTIFUL. I'll keep reading now.
Here's where I first cried:
"By Thanksgiving, Bill was stable enough to be brought out of sedation. As he drifted in and out of consciousness, he formulated a plan. Tubes and a tracheostomy prevented talking, but almost as soon as he could write on a whiteboard, he scrawled a message for Mike. "Will you marry me?"
Mike broke down. "I cried. It was tears of joy." "
That is BEAUTIFUL. I'll keep reading now.
33
What this article shows is the power of love. Love is bigger and more powerful than our social institutions. The best they can do is recognize it and get out of its way. (And isn't that all that we're asking with the whole gay marriage thing?)
Love. Who can deny it? If you deny Mike and Bill's love then I say you have never felt love. If you cannot deny their love, then you have recognized their marriage. And that's all there is to it.
Love. Who can deny it? If you deny Mike and Bill's love then I say you have never felt love. If you cannot deny their love, then you have recognized their marriage. And that's all there is to it.
34
Beautiful. Powerful Thank you!
And Kim @11, I also know two people who voted for prop 8 who say if they get an opportunity to vote again they will vote differently this time. They felt an unexpected shame almost immediately when they saw it was winning. People are changing. Stories like this will continue to make people re-think. Thanks, Dan.
And Kim @11, I also know two people who voted for prop 8 who say if they get an opportunity to vote again they will vote differently this time. They felt an unexpected shame almost immediately when they saw it was winning. People are changing. Stories like this will continue to make people re-think. Thanks, Dan.
35
Absolutely beautiful! And the first thing he did when he was able to was propose. That's gotta be the most romantic proposal ever.
I'm all misty and wanna give them both big, squishy hugs. Instead, I'll toss imaginary rice and wish them a long, happy, and healthy union.
I'm all misty and wanna give them both big, squishy hugs. Instead, I'll toss imaginary rice and wish them a long, happy, and healthy union.
36
That was really sweet. Sadly, it's an article that could be written for so many others...
BTW, Dry Hanky @19, any single person can go through the hassle that gay couples need to go through now to have power of attorney and all that fun stuff. The idea is if there is that one person you trust your life to and you don't want all the paperwork, you could just get married - even if it's just for a year or two. Gays don't have that option.
BTW, Dry Hanky @19, any single person can go through the hassle that gay couples need to go through now to have power of attorney and all that fun stuff. The idea is if there is that one person you trust your life to and you don't want all the paperwork, you could just get married - even if it's just for a year or two. Gays don't have that option.
37
Excellent column, beautiful story. Too bad the wingnuts are too busy teabagging with each other to read it.
40
Dan- That was beautiful and also heartbreaking. Thanks again for posting. I hope we hear how this all turns out. I live in Mass and will keep lookout for any local news.
Dan- thank you for what you do. If I could hug you, I would (except that I know you don't hug strangers).
Dan- thank you for what you do. If I could hug you, I would (except that I know you don't hug strangers).
43
36
A farcical marriage is a crummy way to assign right of attorney.
The process should be streamlined so anyone can readily designate someone.
Again, it is a poor reason to change the definition of marriage and gay marriage is no solution because it doesn't help many many more people than it does.
A farcical marriage is a crummy way to assign right of attorney.
The process should be streamlined so anyone can readily designate someone.
Again, it is a poor reason to change the definition of marriage and gay marriage is no solution because it doesn't help many many more people than it does.
44
It works on straight guys too! I don't know why I feel so good after crying over something beautiful, but I do.
And then we get some comic relief from another True Forced Loneliness Victim: yeah dude, it takes a lot of equal rights to keep us habitually single folks down, doesn't it? Thanks for the chuckle!
On the subject of trolls: I don't think that Loveschild not having to be here is a victory at all: it has only proven that he or she is predictable and therefore unnecessary, which makes him/her look not too bright.
What is really making the comments worthwhile is hearing about Prop8 converts and regrets from people who made the wrong choice. I usually think that people don't change, I'm loving reading that some do.
And then we get some comic relief from another True Forced Loneliness Victim: yeah dude, it takes a lot of equal rights to keep us habitually single folks down, doesn't it? Thanks for the chuckle!
On the subject of trolls: I don't think that Loveschild not having to be here is a victory at all: it has only proven that he or she is predictable and therefore unnecessary, which makes him/her look not too bright.
What is really making the comments worthwhile is hearing about Prop8 converts and regrets from people who made the wrong choice. I usually think that people don't change, I'm loving reading that some do.
45
Oof Da: I just realized that Saying "*another* TFL Victim" makes it look like I might consider myself one.
Nope: So far (age 40) I seem permanently single, but I'm not psycho about it, and it's certainly voluntary.
Nope: So far (age 40) I seem permanently single, but I'm not psycho about it, and it's certainly voluntary.
46
RESEARCH CONDUXTED, RESULTS AND DISTRICTS REPORTING:::
DAN DID U KNOW THAT EARLY ONSET PUBERTY CAUSES CANCER, DEGENERATIVE DISEASES, ETX???????
I NOTICED DURING BACKGROUND RESEARCH FOR PROJECT TEX THAT YOU CLAIM TO HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ACTIVE SINCE THE AGE OF ELEVEN.
JUS' TRYIN' TO HELP A HOMIE OUTIE.
DAN DID U KNOW THAT EARLY ONSET PUBERTY CAUSES CANCER, DEGENERATIVE DISEASES, ETX???????
I NOTICED DURING BACKGROUND RESEARCH FOR PROJECT TEX THAT YOU CLAIM TO HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ACTIVE SINCE THE AGE OF ELEVEN.
JUS' TRYIN' TO HELP A HOMIE OUTIE.
47
Yes. Very touching. Those six hours waiting and dealing with paperwork would have killed me, it is truly unfortunate that those extra steps have to be taken.
I hope they have a swell wedding and an even better marriage.
I hope they have a swell wedding and an even better marriage.
48
The article made me cry. #19 made me laugh. The idea that gay marriage "descriminates" against single people in some way that opposite marriage does not makes me giggle.
49
48
Laugh it up, GiggleBoy...
Dan presents gay marriage as a cure to the discriminatory evils of marriage.
If it is the cure it is a very spotty poor one that leaves a lot of people unprotected.
We can do better.
Laugh it up, GiggleBoy...
Dan presents gay marriage as a cure to the discriminatory evils of marriage.
If it is the cure it is a very spotty poor one that leaves a lot of people unprotected.
We can do better.
50
@43 and yet the anti-gay marriage crowd - the folks that mistakenly think straight marriage in their straight church somehow turns less straight or less a contract with god because gay marriages in gay churches are allowed as legal - was also (mostly) the same folk lighting fires under congresspeople for terry schiavo. The pro-war crowd likes the patriot act, signed in a moment full of angst and revenge. Social security was made law to protect people suffering from a terrible economy. Corn subsidies and sugar-coated breakfast cereal were originally started from a desire to help malnurished people . The viaduct plan approved by the transportation department coalition was trashed because three execs has hard-ons for big dig tunnelers. We hated seeing things like the boston massacre so the founders made sure the right to protest and the right to free speech were foundations for the nation.
We make law & public policy based on emotions aka sob stories all the fawking time, for good or evil... And the many protecting the few as a way of policy? It's democratic altruism, and it's been alive and well in this nation for longer than your sorry ass.
We make law & public policy based on emotions aka sob stories all the fawking time, for good or evil... And the many protecting the few as a way of policy? It's democratic altruism, and it's been alive and well in this nation for longer than your sorry ass.
51
Dry Hanky @19, etc. etc. Legalizing gay marriage is not the solution, but part of the solution. This is the process by which we establish not only that any group of people should be able to form a legally recognized family of trustees, but also that such a provision shouldn't be contingent on a given institution's approval.
Civilization has a lot of work to do before we accommodate all contingencies, or even reduce the disenfranchised ones to a comfortable sum. The same conservatives that impede Gay marriage would also rather deny atheists and pagans the right.
Singles are still stuck with their own blood family, oft on otherwise strange and tentative terms, making such decisions. Some of my friends have parents they'd like to outright deny legal access when health problems confine them to the hospital, because these people are dangerous.
We'll eventually devise a system by which you can declare a list of those who you trust (and to what degree) as cheaply or easily as you choose friends on Facebook (i.e. my sister Sarah gets to visit me when I'm in the hospital, but does not get to pull the plug.), without any prerequisites concerning those to whom you are related by blood or by network tie, who you fuck or whether or not you can (or wish to) have children.
So, no, it's not a comprehensive solution, but it is a step in closing the loops. And each step we take sets a precedent for future steps. Established gay rights will lead to consideration of the rights of transgenders, of alternative sexual lifestyles, of complex families, and so on.
Civilization has a lot of work to do before we accommodate all contingencies, or even reduce the disenfranchised ones to a comfortable sum. The same conservatives that impede Gay marriage would also rather deny atheists and pagans the right.
Singles are still stuck with their own blood family, oft on otherwise strange and tentative terms, making such decisions. Some of my friends have parents they'd like to outright deny legal access when health problems confine them to the hospital, because these people are dangerous.
We'll eventually devise a system by which you can declare a list of those who you trust (and to what degree) as cheaply or easily as you choose friends on Facebook (i.e. my sister Sarah gets to visit me when I'm in the hospital, but does not get to pull the plug.), without any prerequisites concerning those to whom you are related by blood or by network tie, who you fuck or whether or not you can (or wish to) have children.
So, no, it's not a comprehensive solution, but it is a step in closing the loops. And each step we take sets a precedent for future steps. Established gay rights will lead to consideration of the rights of transgenders, of alternative sexual lifestyles, of complex families, and so on.
52
@49 - So... marriage discriminates against single people, therefore single people are an oppressed minority, and gay marriage is an inadequate partial measure because it still leaves single people out in the cold? Just trying to tell if I'm understanding you correctly.
53
51
A system such as you describe would be simple and non-controversial and could easily be enacted now and could cover EVERYONE regardless of gender or orientation or age or even martial status.
Dan and the gays are not advocating for a system like that.
Because medical power of attorney is not the issue or the goal.
It is a tearjerking smokescreen.
The goal is to take an institution sacred to conservative religious Americans and distorting it to suit the gays.
It is about sticking it in the eye of religion.
Civil Union with the rights of marriage would accomplish all the goals.
But it's not good enough for Dan.
Because it's not about adoption or insurance benefits or hospital visitation.
Not for a second.
It is about forcing acceptance of homosexuality down the throats of people who believe it is morally wrong.
It's not about granting homosexuals equal rights and privileges in a way that would have broad public support.
Dan could care less.
It is about tearing down something dear to his enemies.
It is about spite and hate and petty small vindictiveness.
It is about being insecure about your choices and compensating by FORCING every last American to "acknowledge" that the behavior choices you have made are just as good as theirs.
A system such as you describe would be simple and non-controversial and could easily be enacted now and could cover EVERYONE regardless of gender or orientation or age or even martial status.
Dan and the gays are not advocating for a system like that.
Because medical power of attorney is not the issue or the goal.
It is a tearjerking smokescreen.
The goal is to take an institution sacred to conservative religious Americans and distorting it to suit the gays.
It is about sticking it in the eye of religion.
Civil Union with the rights of marriage would accomplish all the goals.
But it's not good enough for Dan.
Because it's not about adoption or insurance benefits or hospital visitation.
Not for a second.
It is about forcing acceptance of homosexuality down the throats of people who believe it is morally wrong.
It's not about granting homosexuals equal rights and privileges in a way that would have broad public support.
Dan could care less.
It is about tearing down something dear to his enemies.
It is about spite and hate and petty small vindictiveness.
It is about being insecure about your choices and compensating by FORCING every last American to "acknowledge" that the behavior choices you have made are just as good as theirs.
54
52
Marriage as it is works just fine and equally for everyone.
Dan would have you believe it is an evil discriminatory institution and that allowing homosexuals to marry is the antidote. The issues Dan raises are straw men and gay marriage is a poor solution to them.
Everyone should be able to easily designate a medical trustee of their choice. You shouldn't have get married to be able to do it.
Everyone should have access to health insurance. Allowing gays to marry so their "spouses" are covered by their plan at work would help a tiny tiny number of people. You shouldn't have to marry someone to get decent health insurance.
Tax laws should treat everyone the same. You shouldn't have to marry someone to get a tax break.
Changing what marriage is will not solve the problems Dan claims to get all weepy about.
But Dan doesn't care.
Dan hates religion and people who practice it, as Slog readers well know.
They're Assholes.
Dan wants to force those people to use Homosexual and Marriage in the same phrase.
He wants to force them to call Terry his Wife.
Marriage as it is works just fine and equally for everyone.
Dan would have you believe it is an evil discriminatory institution and that allowing homosexuals to marry is the antidote. The issues Dan raises are straw men and gay marriage is a poor solution to them.
Everyone should be able to easily designate a medical trustee of their choice. You shouldn't have get married to be able to do it.
Everyone should have access to health insurance. Allowing gays to marry so their "spouses" are covered by their plan at work would help a tiny tiny number of people. You shouldn't have to marry someone to get decent health insurance.
Tax laws should treat everyone the same. You shouldn't have to marry someone to get a tax break.
Changing what marriage is will not solve the problems Dan claims to get all weepy about.
But Dan doesn't care.
Dan hates religion and people who practice it, as Slog readers well know.
They're Assholes.
Dan wants to force those people to use Homosexual and Marriage in the same phrase.
He wants to force them to call Terry his Wife.
55
I didn't cry at reading this, mostly because I was going to get a cavity filled so I was too scared for tears, but this story touched my heart deeply. The white board...just thinking about it makes me smile. That's a real love story, and despite how horrible it must have been for that couple during that week of wondering and doubting, I'm really jealous of what they ended up with. I hope they enjoy the rest of their lives together.
Thanks Dan for sharing this story with us. I hope I find the kind of love they have.
Thanks Dan for sharing this story with us. I hope I find the kind of love they have.
56
@54 - we actually agree on a lot.
"Marriage as it is works just fine and equally for everyone. "
Agreed. That is, it works just fine and equally for everyone who can get married.
"Dan would have you believe it is an evil discriminatory institution and that allowing homosexuals to marry is the antidote."
Um, I have to disagree here. I don't think he believes that, I don't think he would have me believe it, and I wouldn't anyway, not with my parents happily approaching their 48th anniversary. Anyway, why would he & all these other gay people want to get married if it was so evil & discriminatory? I don't understand that.
"Everyone should be able to easily designate a medical trustee of their choice. You shouldn't have get married to be able to do it."
Agreed. In fact you DON'T have to get married to be able to do it. (I don't know if it's easy or not.)
"Everyone should have access to health insurance."
I agree. Oh boy, do I agree.
"Allowing gays to marry so their "spouses" are covered by their plan at work would help a tiny tiny number of people."
I suppose that's true, but I don't see that as a reason not to do it.
"You shouldn't have to marry someone to get decent health insurance."
Agreed again. Nevertheless, that's what a lot of people have to do. I know several heterosexual couples who got married for the insurance benefits. I believe Dan's point is that, if straight couples can do that, then gay couples should be able to as well. As I understand it, he's not endorsing the system -- he's just saying that gay people should be able to manipulate it in the same ways that straight people do.
"Tax laws should treat everyone the same. You shouldn't have to marry someone to get a tax break."
Amen. I mean, I agree. See response to sentence about insurance, above.
"Dan wants to force those people to use Homosexual and Marriage in the same phrase. He wants to force them to call Terry his Wife."
Actually I don't think Dan cares whether you use "Homosexual" and "Marriage" in the same sentence, or whether you call Terry his wife. He wants the same legal rights for himself and Terry that opposite-married people have.
"Changing what marriage is will not solve the problems Dan claims to get all weepy about."
The problems Dan claims to get all weepy about are the problems faced by gay couples who, in an emergency medical situation, find themselves without legal rights that opposite-married couples can take for granted. So actually, yes, I think it will -- or it will help, anyway.
Wow, this is really long. Oh well.
More...
"Marriage as it is works just fine and equally for everyone. "
Agreed. That is, it works just fine and equally for everyone who can get married.
"Dan would have you believe it is an evil discriminatory institution and that allowing homosexuals to marry is the antidote."
Um, I have to disagree here. I don't think he believes that, I don't think he would have me believe it, and I wouldn't anyway, not with my parents happily approaching their 48th anniversary. Anyway, why would he & all these other gay people want to get married if it was so evil & discriminatory? I don't understand that.
"Everyone should be able to easily designate a medical trustee of their choice. You shouldn't have get married to be able to do it."
Agreed. In fact you DON'T have to get married to be able to do it. (I don't know if it's easy or not.)
"Everyone should have access to health insurance."
I agree. Oh boy, do I agree.
"Allowing gays to marry so their "spouses" are covered by their plan at work would help a tiny tiny number of people."
I suppose that's true, but I don't see that as a reason not to do it.
"You shouldn't have to marry someone to get decent health insurance."
Agreed again. Nevertheless, that's what a lot of people have to do. I know several heterosexual couples who got married for the insurance benefits. I believe Dan's point is that, if straight couples can do that, then gay couples should be able to as well. As I understand it, he's not endorsing the system -- he's just saying that gay people should be able to manipulate it in the same ways that straight people do.
"Tax laws should treat everyone the same. You shouldn't have to marry someone to get a tax break."
Amen. I mean, I agree. See response to sentence about insurance, above.
"Dan wants to force those people to use Homosexual and Marriage in the same phrase. He wants to force them to call Terry his Wife."
Actually I don't think Dan cares whether you use "Homosexual" and "Marriage" in the same sentence, or whether you call Terry his wife. He wants the same legal rights for himself and Terry that opposite-married people have.
"Changing what marriage is will not solve the problems Dan claims to get all weepy about."
The problems Dan claims to get all weepy about are the problems faced by gay couples who, in an emergency medical situation, find themselves without legal rights that opposite-married couples can take for granted. So actually, yes, I think it will -- or it will help, anyway.
Wow, this is really long. Oh well.
57
I have only seen a few pictures of Terry, and have never met him. From the photos he is beautiful, a beautiful man. Dan's got himself one fine looking husband. Good for him.
I believe you need a living will to designate a medical trustee, no marriage required.
I agree everyone should have access to health care as well.
I think marriage equality is a step in the right direction for all of us.
I believe you need a living will to designate a medical trustee, no marriage required.
I agree everyone should have access to health care as well.
I think marriage equality is a step in the right direction for all of us.
58
Dan refers to Terry as his 'wife'.
you'll have to cut and paste the link (it's post#29)-http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
you'll have to cut and paste the link (it's post#29)-http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
61
59: Surely that 'wife' comment was intended to be humourous, and not part of a political agenda that involves coercing everyone in America into referring to his spouse with terminology that they don't like?
67
If you are an avid reader of his stuff you will know that he recently said "And since neither of us is the wife", so I think that it's safe to say that he's as playful with the terminology as he likes to be, it doesn't matter, and we come back again to this point in this well informed, learned discussion: SW (we're going to have to start abbreviating it to save time ;) ).
68
It is a sad story that fortunately ends well and unlike the one posted by Dan on youtube about the lady who died of anevrism in Miami and her wife could not be with her because she was not related. Nevertheless, I am still outraged that these things could still happen in the 21st century in such advanced civilization as yours.
71
59
62
How is posting as "Dan Sewage" sock puppetry?
Are Slog readers soooo stupid they can't tell the difference?
For an envelope-pushing in-your-face 'Fuck this...' and 'Asshole that...' hipster we seem to be pretty thin skinned...
62
How is posting as "Dan Sewage" sock puppetry?
Are Slog readers soooo stupid they can't tell the difference?
For an envelope-pushing in-your-face 'Fuck this...' and 'Asshole that...' hipster we seem to be pretty thin skinned...
72
That's a really sweet story, but couldn't the frigging writer have delayed it until after Aug 20? He will look like a total shithead if someone does tell the proposee first.
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