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News & ArtsMonday, August 17, 2009
Drugs They Kicked Me Out
Posted by Dominic Holden on Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 1:06 PM
I got kicked out of Hempfest's backstage yesterday, apparently for suggesting in The Stranger that the event should lose the tie-dyes on the stages and go for a broader appeal. It was nothing personal, and I worked on Hempfest for 12 years, so it surprised me when they demanded that I give up my pass (the pass they'd given me). Then they had security escort me out. I realize that this story may sound like sour grapes, but—I promise you—it leaves me with the sweetest of memories. First, here's a picture of one of those stages:
After listening to a few speakers and consuming one gigantic veggie burrito with pickled jalapeños, I went behind the main stage. I was talking to a friend when a member of the Hempfest board, John Davis, whom I’ve known for about 15 years, approached me and said, “You can’t be back here. You have to go.”
I showed him my VIP pass. Surely, an article I wrote suggesting the event should take down tie-dyes from the stages to debunk stereotypes about Hempfest couldn’t make them completely lose their shit, could it? And after working on Hempfest for over a decade, and pushing for many of the things the event organizers love so much (remember how pot enforcement is the city’s lowest law-enforcement priority now, guys? And that Hempfest steering committee members thought it was a “bad idea,” but it passed and now you appreciate it? You're welcome), they weren’t really kicking me out, were they? Davis snatched the pass out of my hand, and as the security guy escorted me out, he said that it’s because I'm a “member of the media.”
Uh, I’ve been a member of the media in past years, and I’ve always been allowed backstage. And before I was a reporter—back when I was the spokesman for Hempfest—several times we’d have reporters walk freely backstage. So what gives? Hempfest director Vivian McPeak reportedly told a staffer, who went to ask what the fuck was going on, that I had “proverbially stabbed [him] in the back.” But, Vivian, I thought you were omnipotent. About 10 minutes earlier, he was on the main stage mic referring to himself as “the great Vivian McPeak.”
The issue, clearly, is that Hempfest organizers are outraged that anyone would dare critique their event. They cannot separate themselves from their culture from their politics. So any commentary of their political strategy (simply saying they should take down the cheesy tie-dyes) is apparently a personal backstabbing. That's a tragically self-centered perspective for any organization, political cause, or leader—especially one that is "great."
So after going to Hempfest every year, I’m relieved of any duty I ever had. And frankly, even though the event’s got plenty of good things going for it, at least I don’t have to go to it. Likewise, they're probably relieved to be rid of me.
And once more, Hempfest, for the record: Nobody is saying that hippies are evil; I'm just saying that we're not all hippies and we want our "Oktoberfest of Pot" to feel like an event for all the pot smokers. We don't want it to feel like this:
Argh, "tye-dye" is even misspelled.
1
seems like a douche move. I didn't see any of your critiques as anything but trying to make it better. Makes me even happier i haven't been to one here yet.
2
Gosh, Dominic, rational discourse and to-the-point reporting is so damning, didn't you know that? How dare you sully their wholesome and unassuming event with realism.
If we listened to you, folks would think that there were a lot of Juggalos and pot smoking at Hempfest with the only political advocacy at the entire shebang consisting of a few haggard hippies rehashing (it's a pun, stick with me here) the same failed tactics of the past 40 years.
If we listened to you, folks would think that there were a lot of Juggalos and pot smoking at Hempfest with the only political advocacy at the entire shebang consisting of a few haggard hippies rehashing (it's a pun, stick with me here) the same failed tactics of the past 40 years.
3
Ah, ideological purity, it's a wonderful thing.
Too bad nobody can ever achieve 100% ideological purity, but that certainly doesn't prevent the 95 per centers from feeling smugly superior to everyone else, regardless.
Until they run up against a 96 per center, that is.
Too bad nobody can ever achieve 100% ideological purity, but that certainly doesn't prevent the 95 per centers from feeling smugly superior to everyone else, regardless.
Until they run up against a 96 per center, that is.
4
I went to QFC on Broadway yesterday while Hempfest was going on and saw a demo table set up with free samples of hemp milk. A few years ago both the commercial and political discussion of hemp would have been confined to Hempfest. Now the commercial uses are in national supermarket chains, and the political discussion is on the state and national stages.
It's fine if Hempfest is just Hippiefest now. The only problem is -- why do they get to smoke and sell pot in public without getting busted, but nobody else does?
It's fine if Hempfest is just Hippiefest now. The only problem is -- why do they get to smoke and sell pot in public without getting busted, but nobody else does?
5
By going apeshit over his criticism they helped displace the stereotype that potheads are super laid back, right?
I'm not surprised at their reaction though. I've noticed that the kind of people who are always yapping about the need to "question society/authority" never have any tolerance when someone questions them. It's the way it is. Dominic's criticism was 100% right and their acting like babies about it only reenforces that.
I'm not surprised at their reaction though. I've noticed that the kind of people who are always yapping about the need to "question society/authority" never have any tolerance when someone questions them. It's the way it is. Dominic's criticism was 100% right and their acting like babies about it only reenforces that.
6
Hey, you tried. If they don't want to listen what more can you do?
Maybe they need some competition to shake them up? Why don't you start your own pot festival and organize it the way you want?
Maybe they need some competition to shake them up? Why don't you start your own pot festival and organize it the way you want?
8
These people have been holding onto a failed philosophy for 30 years and you don't think they can hold a grudge too?
10
That's lame of them.
But asking hempfest to have less tie-dye is like asking the pride parade to have less feather boas.
But asking hempfest to have less tie-dye is like asking the pride parade to have less feather boas.
11
Whatever. It's typical. Something gets a certain amount of momentum behind it, the participants get all caught up in their own specialness, loose perspective and jump the shark (that one's for you, Lindy). It happens. Fuck it, I've done it.
The thing that always surprises me is how hard it is for people who are doing it to stop and be, like, "Oh, hold on. I'm just some schmuck promoter. Madonna has fifty guys like me working for her, and most of them are better at this than I am. If I wasn't doing something kind of weird, nobody would ever have heard of me. Maybe I better chill the fuck out."
I mean, again, I've made this kind mistake myself, so glass houses and all that. But it's still kind of trippy when you see it go down.
The thing that always surprises me is how hard it is for people who are doing it to stop and be, like, "Oh, hold on. I'm just some schmuck promoter. Madonna has fifty guys like me working for her, and most of them are better at this than I am. If I wasn't doing something kind of weird, nobody would ever have heard of me. Maybe I better chill the fuck out."
I mean, again, I've made this kind mistake myself, so glass houses and all that. But it's still kind of trippy when you see it go down.
13
The problem with hempfest is that everyone is high. Really really high. It's just as annoying as if I was at a festival where everyone was ridiculously drunk. At least it's easy to kick out drunk people.
The only reason I go is to sit on the rocks and smoke a joint in the sun (instead of the usual basement that I'm condemned to). I have no desire to own a 6ft bong or "tye dye" boxers.
Finally, it needs to be 18 & over. Yes, highschoolers smoke pot, just like they drink alcohol. But if we're trying to promote responsible and fair reform, then hempfest should exhibit what that reform would look like. If I thought the world would look like hempfest after legalization, I'd vote against it.
The only reason I go is to sit on the rocks and smoke a joint in the sun (instead of the usual basement that I'm condemned to). I have no desire to own a 6ft bong or "tye dye" boxers.
Finally, it needs to be 18 & over. Yes, highschoolers smoke pot, just like they drink alcohol. But if we're trying to promote responsible and fair reform, then hempfest should exhibit what that reform would look like. If I thought the world would look like hempfest after legalization, I'd vote against it.
14
Don't worry. By next year, I'm sure they'll have totally spaced and forgotten this whole "you're a member of the fascist media now" bizniss.
16
They're just upset that MJ may be decriminalized (see NY Times and WaPo today) and that means that it won't be a protest anymore.
Which means it turns into a giant post-Seafair event and gets gobbled up by corporate masters.
Even if we are going to tax MJ and sell it in liquor stores.
Which means it turns into a giant post-Seafair event and gets gobbled up by corporate masters.
Even if we are going to tax MJ and sell it in liquor stores.
17
I was at hempfest last year, registering voters who would hopefully participate in the 08 presidential election. I was there all day long, both days, and got three people registered. I'll never go back. The people who attend this event told me they weren't interested in voting, or that they were convicted felons. I can't believe that they would go to a festival, cheer when anyone said "Legalize!" but not actually empower themselves to make a difference. LAME.
18
If I had a decade of experience with a group, and then decided to criticize them in public before approaching them behind the scenes with my suggestion, I'd expect them to be pissed too.
You probably know that it's hard for many community groups in Seattle to get positive press in Seattle. It's even harder because of the sorry state of the alt press here. So many local activists work in obscurity and rely largely on volunteers for lack of money, then get shat on by their so-called supporters in the "alternative press" for their supposed lack of professionalism. To have one of their own go off and armchair quarterback by invoking anti-hippie stereotypes, or call them "regressive and archaic," must be especially galling. As if this makes the alt press appear any more legit to those in power, or as if it make any positive contribution to the hard-working people whose vision it criticizes.
Take a step back and think about it, Dominic. If even friends of many years are backing off from you now that you're writing for the Stranger, maybe it's worth asking yourself why. Does the Stranger's style of journalism allow for more than cheap gotcha politics? Is this the kind of social change work you aspire to?
While name calling may be protected by the First Amendment, that doesn't mean it's good journalism, or that the only way to constructively engage those you disagree with is by being flip and condescending.
You probably know that it's hard for many community groups in Seattle to get positive press in Seattle. It's even harder because of the sorry state of the alt press here. So many local activists work in obscurity and rely largely on volunteers for lack of money, then get shat on by their so-called supporters in the "alternative press" for their supposed lack of professionalism. To have one of their own go off and armchair quarterback by invoking anti-hippie stereotypes, or call them "regressive and archaic," must be especially galling. As if this makes the alt press appear any more legit to those in power, or as if it make any positive contribution to the hard-working people whose vision it criticizes.
Take a step back and think about it, Dominic. If even friends of many years are backing off from you now that you're writing for the Stranger, maybe it's worth asking yourself why. Does the Stranger's style of journalism allow for more than cheap gotcha politics? Is this the kind of social change work you aspire to?
While name calling may be protected by the First Amendment, that doesn't mean it's good journalism, or that the only way to constructively engage those you disagree with is by being flip and condescending.
19
the 1st hempfest was fun.
the 2nd hempfest, the PNW was bone dry and everyone who showed up did so to mooch. off me.
i've never been back.
the 2nd hempfest, the PNW was bone dry and everyone who showed up did so to mooch. off me.
i've never been back.
21
@18: You're a little too starry-eyed and quixotic for your own good.
And you sound like Sarah Palin.
And you sound like Sarah Palin.
23
@18
He offered constructive criticisms, and while the 'patchouli stained...' was certainly name-calling, he's speaking to the community as well as the organizers. The Stranger seems a very appropriate place for such comments. Not every criticism needs to be behind the macrame beaded curtain.
He offered constructive criticisms, and while the 'patchouli stained...' was certainly name-calling, he's speaking to the community as well as the organizers. The Stranger seems a very appropriate place for such comments. Not every criticism needs to be behind the macrame beaded curtain.
24
Dom;
1. All organizations in Seattle are like that.
2. Don't give up! Make it louder! Do a viral video mocking the situation. They want to make you feel bad and shut you up, so if you don't have a ton of other things going on I say you should destroy them.
1. All organizations in Seattle are like that.
2. Don't give up! Make it louder! Do a viral video mocking the situation. They want to make you feel bad and shut you up, so if you don't have a ton of other things going on I say you should destroy them.
25
dude, that really sucks. but like I've said before: everyone that I've ever known who has gone to hempfest has left at some point covered in someones vomit that isnt theirs.
you dodged the bullet on that one.
you dodged the bullet on that one.
27
@22: Or Dominic could focus less on the types of fabrics used to decorate Hempfest and more on the issue of drug reform. Which is more substantive and important?
@21: Well hey tell me what activism you've been involved in for years, and perhaps we can commission a piece by Dominic to go in an assess your friends' fashion sense. Because that will help them a lot!
@21: Well hey tell me what activism you've been involved in for years, and perhaps we can commission a piece by Dominic to go in an assess your friends' fashion sense. Because that will help them a lot!
28
wow, I knew hippies were stupid, but sheesh...how smart is it to kick out a reporter for the pot friendliest newspaper in town, AND do it in a childish, petulant way.
Epic fail, Hempfest douches.
Epic fail, Hempfest douches.
29
@23: Agreed there were some constructive ideas. But they were not couched constructively. More like mocumentary news-making.
30
Hopefully this comment won't be deleted like the last one (it oh so mysteriously disappeared).
I think you're a hypocrite. If someone said "Dominic Holden hurts the gay rights movement because he smokes pot, take away his gay card", there would be a fuss.
You did the same thing when you talked about hippies being bad for the legalization of pot.
I think you're a hypocrite. If someone said "Dominic Holden hurts the gay rights movement because he smokes pot, take away his gay card", there would be a fuss.
You did the same thing when you talked about hippies being bad for the legalization of pot.
31
@30 "gay card"
are you seriously comparing homosexuality to the choice someone makes to smoke pot?
are you seriously comparing homosexuality to the choice someone makes to smoke pot?
33
"Epic fail, Hempfest douches."
Agreed!
I'm going to find a tie-die tshirt tonight and symbolically burn it while smoking a joint....
Agreed!
I'm going to find a tie-die tshirt tonight and symbolically burn it while smoking a joint....
35
@17
My volunteers and I had the same experience this past weekend. At least before it seemed to me and some of my volunteers who have attended before that there was some premise that it was about legalization and a gathering of political power. This year it really did just seem like an excuse for people to get together and smoke.
My volunteers and I had the same experience this past weekend. At least before it seemed to me and some of my volunteers who have attended before that there was some premise that it was about legalization and a gathering of political power. This year it really did just seem like an excuse for people to get together and smoke.
36
The Stranger still counts as 'media'?
who would of thunk between dozens of mad rad penis sucking blogs and chuckles insane typing?
who would of thunk between dozens of mad rad penis sucking blogs and chuckles insane typing?
37
They're no better than the cop busting people for smoking pot at a festival called HEMPFEST.
It's not going to stop people from commenting negatively on their show. Makes me glad I only went Saturday, I figured Sunday would be more crowded than it was Saturday and Saturday you couldn't move. Every year I've gone it's got bigger and bigger but the venue pretty much stays the same. They aren't going to go anywhere if they treat local reporters like crap. You figure the people who would be removed from hempfest are the kind that are doing something illegal, I never thought anyone would be removed for having thoughts in their head. Hempfest has grown too big for it's own good.
It's not going to stop people from commenting negatively on their show. Makes me glad I only went Saturday, I figured Sunday would be more crowded than it was Saturday and Saturday you couldn't move. Every year I've gone it's got bigger and bigger but the venue pretty much stays the same. They aren't going to go anywhere if they treat local reporters like crap. You figure the people who would be removed from hempfest are the kind that are doing something illegal, I never thought anyone would be removed for having thoughts in their head. Hempfest has grown too big for it's own good.
38
@30 - Actually reporters regularly do criticize Gay Pride, that it needs to tone down the antics, some may even suggest that we no longer need a gay pride parade, but nobody pulls their press credentials because of it. Truly amazing.
42
Wow, sounds like Hempfest organizers are as angry in response to criticism as Obama's ass sniffers, i mean supporters.
43
Attention Non-profit Board Members!!!
We know you're trying to help, but seriously...
Sit the Fuck Down.
Shut the Fuck Up.
Let the media relations people handle it.
Because you evidently do not know what the Fuck you are doing.
Thank you for your attention.
We know you're trying to help, but seriously...
Sit the Fuck Down.
Shut the Fuck Up.
Let the media relations people handle it.
Because you evidently do not know what the Fuck you are doing.
Thank you for your attention.
44
Why would you go anyway, knowing how the tie-dye attitude would affect your delicate sensibilities? I'm glad they had balls enough to ban your ass! I had a blast and enjoyed ALL of the vendors, both the tied and dyed and all of the rest!
45
I went to Hempfest this year for the first time in many years, andI was reminded why I hadn’t been back. I was even annoyed by donating money. After we, my husband and I, each stuffed $5 in the collection thingies we were offered a schmata, probably made in China, certainly not made of hemp fiber, emblazoned with pot leaves. -BLECH- this is not the message that will win hearts and minds.
This event does nothing to draw in your average voting pot smoker, like myself. It seemed to me to be mostly rather skeevy people from Kent who wanted to smoke a bowl in public, and listen to alternative bands. Some of us like jazz, classical and show tunes to go with our weed.
I am very pro legalization; have written to my elected officials, donated money, etc. But I agree if Hempfest were what it would look like after legalization I might not want it to happen.
Although I do not now, nor will I ever, own a piece of tie-dye clothing I would be happy to know about/purchase clothing made from hemp. Also do you really need what seemed like several million vendors hawking pipes of every size shape and material? Maybe create a specific area where all these can be sold allows people to see what is available, comparison shop etc.
The organizers need to wake up, and put a new face on this event or we are going to be living with the laws we have for a very long time. The best speaker I heard was a woman from the November Coalition http://november.org/ talking about how her family has been affected by the war on drugs.
So thank you Hempfest organizers for the hard work you do to put on such a huge event! I know you work very hard but please try and reach out to “movable middle” so we can see pro legalization efforts succeed as opposed to wallow in the political backwaters.
More...
This event does nothing to draw in your average voting pot smoker, like myself. It seemed to me to be mostly rather skeevy people from Kent who wanted to smoke a bowl in public, and listen to alternative bands. Some of us like jazz, classical and show tunes to go with our weed.
I am very pro legalization; have written to my elected officials, donated money, etc. But I agree if Hempfest were what it would look like after legalization I might not want it to happen.
Although I do not now, nor will I ever, own a piece of tie-dye clothing I would be happy to know about/purchase clothing made from hemp. Also do you really need what seemed like several million vendors hawking pipes of every size shape and material? Maybe create a specific area where all these can be sold allows people to see what is available, comparison shop etc.
The organizers need to wake up, and put a new face on this event or we are going to be living with the laws we have for a very long time. The best speaker I heard was a woman from the November Coalition http://november.org/ talking about how her family has been affected by the war on drugs.
So thank you Hempfest organizers for the hard work you do to put on such a huge event! I know you work very hard but please try and reach out to “movable middle” so we can see pro legalization efforts succeed as opposed to wallow in the political backwaters.
46
@13 "Finally, it needs to be 18 and over."
Yes, yes and more yes. Sorry, but after seeing all the pictures on Seattlepi.com of what were obviously middle schoolers getting high, there needs to be an age restriction. I'm a supporter of legalization, but I'm not comfortable with young kids getting high.
Pictures of 13-year olds toking up at a pro-legalization festival = losing the P.R. war.
Yes, yes and more yes. Sorry, but after seeing all the pictures on Seattlepi.com of what were obviously middle schoolers getting high, there needs to be an age restriction. I'm a supporter of legalization, but I'm not comfortable with young kids getting high.
Pictures of 13-year olds toking up at a pro-legalization festival = losing the P.R. war.
47
#35 - Dorsal, why the hell would you get into this free speech, name calling grudge match.
You really are a politcal newbie. Wow, bad choice. And by the way, if pot smoking at a free speech event bothers you, don't go.
Seattle is one of the most pot friendly of cities in America. And has been that way for 50 years.
Dorsal, need to explain. I voted for you but, will go get a new ballot if needed.
Free speech and pot liberation are very important. issues to me.
Toeing the Stranger grudge fight is not.
You really are a politcal newbie. Wow, bad choice. And by the way, if pot smoking at a free speech event bothers you, don't go.
Seattle is one of the most pot friendly of cities in America. And has been that way for 50 years.
Dorsal, need to explain. I voted for you but, will go get a new ballot if needed.
Free speech and pot liberation are very important. issues to me.
Toeing the Stranger grudge fight is not.
48
It's the reverse Groucho Marxian thing: "We don't care to belong to any club that will not have Dom as a member..." They must be smokin' petty. I didn't know there was a uniform code for hipsters. And ah yes, who doesn't want to sport odoriferous dreadlocks to complement the ever chic tie dye and the dirty toenails...
49
oh, stfu Ace.
you're like a vegan in a typical restaurant - have to complain cause the other diners who aren't in your face are eating meat or shrimp or something and don't think they should live the way you do.
you're like a vegan in a typical restaurant - have to complain cause the other diners who aren't in your face are eating meat or shrimp or something and don't think they should live the way you do.
50
I am shocked that a reporter would ask tough questions about, and level criticism against a public organization. Reporters are supposed to privately approach the organization and politely ask it to change. They should afflict the afflicted and comfort the comfortable-
Wait a second, that's all backwards.
Despite of Magical Trevor's criticism in the comments, I think that the Stranger's handling of Hempfest has been as fair and objective as any other issue covered in its pages. And as someone else pointed out, other groups seem to be able to resist throwing a temper tantrum and trying to shut out the press because their feelings were hurt.
The hippies need to calm down and relax a little. If only they had access to some method of mellowing out a bit...
Wait a second, that's all backwards.
Despite of Magical Trevor's criticism in the comments, I think that the Stranger's handling of Hempfest has been as fair and objective as any other issue covered in its pages. And as someone else pointed out, other groups seem to be able to resist throwing a temper tantrum and trying to shut out the press because their feelings were hurt.
The hippies need to calm down and relax a little. If only they had access to some method of mellowing out a bit...
51
It's true that the hippie brand is toxic to the pot legalization movement. On the other hand, hippies have been the ones carrying this movement since its inception, telling them to butt out now that it's gaining some popularity is unfair.
Dominic, judging from your article "A Few Words About Hempfest", it sounds like you want to change the tone of the event from that of a festival to a political rally. But from what I understand, Hempfest is more about celebrating Marijuana than advocating for its legalization. People don't go to celebrations because they're eager to work for political reform. Your suggestions may make Hempfest more effective, but they could also kill it.
Dominic, judging from your article "A Few Words About Hempfest", it sounds like you want to change the tone of the event from that of a festival to a political rally. But from what I understand, Hempfest is more about celebrating Marijuana than advocating for its legalization. People don't go to celebrations because they're eager to work for political reform. Your suggestions may make Hempfest more effective, but they could also kill it.
53
Vivian McPeak is an egotistical, whiny asshole. I had to deal with him a few years back when I was working with SCN/Peace Heathens, and his bullshit almost made me quit. This seems typical of his idiocy.
54
Y'know Dom, I kinda get where you're coming from now. I understand that Hempfest needs to 'grow up' a bit and take itself a bit more seriously. At the same time, it's roots are also important i.e. hippies. What else, aside from ditching the tie-dye, could be done? It's obviously large enough for the venue it's in now. What is the next step?
56
One year my band was scheduled to play. In the morning it was raining hard. They called to say our stage was closed and our set canceled. In the afternoon it cleared up, so the stage was open. We were told that when it came time for our set which had been canceled, they announced from the stage that we had simply not shown up. It's maybe a small insult to a band nobody's heard of, but we take our commitments seriously. To us it was personally insulting and slanderous. Fuck them.
57
That's not what "sour grapes" means.
Also, you didn't "proverbially" stab anyone or anything. That's not what that fucking means either.
You can look this stuff up, people. I hear google's big with the young folks.
Also, you didn't "proverbially" stab anyone or anything. That's not what that fucking means either.
You can look this stuff up, people. I hear google's big with the young folks.
58
Dom, you used your platform at the Stranger to publically insult the event, its organizers, and its patrons. Of course they kicked you out, who wouldn't?
As for your critique of the event, has it occurred to you that there is value in allowing people to be extra freaky in public (see, for example, the gay pride parade)? That exposing people to the fringe makes everyone else seem more acceptable and mainstream? Give it some thought.
As for your critique of the event, has it occurred to you that there is value in allowing people to be extra freaky in public (see, for example, the gay pride parade)? That exposing people to the fringe makes everyone else seem more acceptable and mainstream? Give it some thought.
59
Way to use this public forum to air a personal grievance. Yes, it did sound like sour grapes, and after hearing you out, it still sounded like sour grapes. Your personal life isn't news.
60
I think at this point Hempfest has just become a money making scheme. Lots of vendors paying to be there and volunteers giving their time and labor. All those donations. Who ends up with all that money?
61
I volunteered my time & energy to ask *beg* people attending hempfest to donate money towards the event so that it can continue to happen. My training was minimal if not non-existent, my supervisors giving me conflicting information & everyone shouting over each other trying to be heard above the train noise & the hustle & flow of people. It was a very frustrating situation for all involved, the crowd getting hot & squished, the volunteers directionless & near-deaf with lost voices trying to sell bobbles as people just want to get by. The planning for flow of people was ok I guess... if you were expecting about 1/3 of the amount of people that showed up.
Anyways, I just wanted to reiterate the "celebrity" mentality that the hempfest organizers are cultivating, and frankly, as someone who believes strongly in reforming our failed prohibition policies, this mentality is driving their allies away in droves. I don't know if I want to volunteer again if I'm treated with as much disdain and disrespect by the "elite" of the hempfest movement as I was this past weekend.
I am annoyed they booted you, for trying to help them.
Anyways, I just wanted to reiterate the "celebrity" mentality that the hempfest organizers are cultivating, and frankly, as someone who believes strongly in reforming our failed prohibition policies, this mentality is driving their allies away in droves. I don't know if I want to volunteer again if I'm treated with as much disdain and disrespect by the "elite" of the hempfest movement as I was this past weekend.
I am annoyed they booted you, for trying to help them.
62
The numb-skulled ignorance and arrogance of the Hempfest organizers reminds me of Bush-Cheney ("either you're 100% with us or you're with the terrorists"). Great strategic thinking, Vivian -- shitting on one of your organization's longest-standing supporters, who also happens to be a key member of the local media outlet that has been Hempfest's most influential supporter. I suppose you have to expect this kind of reaction from the sheep-like followers who can't distinguish a thoughtful critique from a "public insult" (see post 58 above). But you'd like to think that the organizers of an event this large would have the personal maturity and intelligence to welcome well-intended suggestions from folks who obviously know something about the topic at hand. If this is how the Hempfest brass treat their allies, how on earth do they respond to the Bill O'Reilly types who are only too eager to demagogue events like this for the very reasons that Dominic zeros in on? Way to win friends and influence people, Vivian.
63
If nothing else: this is a perfect demonstration of exactly why uncompromising countercultural groups are so rarely able to accomplish anything more than constructing a small, esoteric and short-lived echo chamber that allows its participants to feel good about themselves for a few years.
Once again, we find a group devoted to a leftist issue put the narcissism of minor distinctions above its capacity to build coalitions and do something helpful for humanity. Occasionally, you see this among the right-wingers as well. Occasionally. Not nearly as often.
Well done, Hempfest.
Once again, we find a group devoted to a leftist issue put the narcissism of minor distinctions above its capacity to build coalitions and do something helpful for humanity. Occasionally, you see this among the right-wingers as well. Occasionally. Not nearly as often.
Well done, Hempfest.
64
Eh, that was poorly worded. I didn't mean to imply that the right did more to help humanity, only that they're better at building coalitions.
65
Rebecca @59, you are forgetting what this is all about. It is about Dominic. "Tragically self-centered" he is not!
66
Hempfest is to pot rights as the pride parade is to gay rights. They're both just a big party to openly celebrate, increase visibility, and raise funds for legalizing pot and/or being gay. It's also good practice for cops to restrain themselves from bashing the skulls of freaks.
The only way Hempfest could fail is if no one showed up and smoked pot. From the looks of things, Hempfest is as successful as ever. Despite the tie dye.
P.S. Dom - you are mistaking a personal/professional failure of yours with actual news. Good luck patching things up with the enemies you've made. Or not.
The only way Hempfest could fail is if no one showed up and smoked pot. From the looks of things, Hempfest is as successful as ever. Despite the tie dye.
P.S. Dom - you are mistaking a personal/professional failure of yours with actual news. Good luck patching things up with the enemies you've made. Or not.
67
Hempfest is a product of the awesomeness of Seattle, which says more about Seattle than it does about Hempfest. But legalization is not going to spring from this event. It's a celebration of the fact that for a weekend, you can get high in Seattle in public.
I've appreciated Dom's commentary on this issue - all of it. Considering the fact that he's actually done something positive for the legalization movement that has had real impact on people, one would think that his commentary is valued. I've gone to hempfest twice and I always leave thinking "these are not my people." Which is fine I guess, based on the comments here and their treatment of Dom, it sounds like they don't want me and mine either.
Keep fighting the good fight Dom. Thanks for all you're doing and all you've done.
I've appreciated Dom's commentary on this issue - all of it. Considering the fact that he's actually done something positive for the legalization movement that has had real impact on people, one would think that his commentary is valued. I've gone to hempfest twice and I always leave thinking "these are not my people." Which is fine I guess, based on the comments here and their treatment of Dom, it sounds like they don't want me and mine either.
Keep fighting the good fight Dom. Thanks for all you're doing and all you've done.
68
seandr, do you have to practice to be that much of a douchenozzle or does it just come naturally?
70
@66. The other way for Hempfest to fail is not to achieve its stated objectives. Here is one of them:
"In particular, Seattle Hempfest seeks to advance the cause of Cannabis policy reform through education, while advancing the public image of the Cannabis advocate or enthusiast through example."
If Hempfest changed their stated objectives to line up with yours, @66, then Dominic would be seriously out of line. But given the above, I think his criticisms are valid.
"In particular, Seattle Hempfest seeks to advance the cause of Cannabis policy reform through education, while advancing the public image of the Cannabis advocate or enthusiast through example."
If Hempfest changed their stated objectives to line up with yours, @66, then Dominic would be seriously out of line. But given the above, I think his criticisms are valid.
71
Dominic might have an honest complaint but what a bunch of whining, uninspired responses he has drawn. Is this the official "complain about a free festival that celebrates freedom and allows you smoke comfortably in public" spot? Don't you have an interpol concert to whine about?
72
Agree with @61 about the "celebrity mentality" Hempfest organizers cultivate. Hempfest normalizes pot use in our fair city and state, and thus it is ultimately a good thing for marijuana reform. At the same time, Hempfest could advance its stated mission more effectively if the organization's leadership weren't so petty and personal.
I mean, the Hempfest board of directors took a vote to ban a Stranger writer from speaking at their event? That was the pressing issue of the day for this nonprofit board -- that a Stranger writer used the phrase "patchouli-stained ghetto" in reference to their event? And they were so afraid that he would be invited to speak at their Hempfest, that they took up a motion to ban the offending party from ever speaking at their event? Eek!
The real problem: a handful of Hempfest board members have hypersensitive egos.
I mean, the Hempfest board of directors took a vote to ban a Stranger writer from speaking at their event? That was the pressing issue of the day for this nonprofit board -- that a Stranger writer used the phrase "patchouli-stained ghetto" in reference to their event? And they were so afraid that he would be invited to speak at their Hempfest, that they took up a motion to ban the offending party from ever speaking at their event? Eek!
The real problem: a handful of Hempfest board members have hypersensitive egos.
73
"If we listened to you, folks would think that there were a lot of Juggalos and pot smoking at Hempfest with the only political advocacy at the entire shebang consisting of a few haggard hippies rehashing (it's a pun, stick with me here) the same failed tactics of the past 40 years."
Sounds like the current administration and bipartisanship :p
Sounds like the current administration and bipartisanship :p
74
It's not going to stop people from commenting negatively on their show. Makes me glad I only went Saturday, I figured Sunday would be more crowded than it was Saturday and Saturday you couldn't move. Every year I've gone it's got bigger and bigger but the venue pretty much stays the same. They aren't going to go anywhere if they treat local reporters like crap. You figure the people who would be removed from hempfest are the kind that are doing something illegal, I never thought anyone would be removed for having thoughts in their head. Hempfest has grown too big for it's own good.
Too crowded to move? Too big for its own good? Are we sure we're not talking about Bumbershoot?
Or are all of Seattle's big festivals turning into the same big problem?
75
Those idiots should grow the fuck up. It's obvious you really love Hempfest and these morons chose to take a piece of constructive criticism as an attack. And even if you had written a hit piece, they should have left you the fuck alone. Any idiot should know that treating reporters like crap leads to bad press. The fact that you didn't write a screaming hit piece after being treated like this is, in my opinion, irrefutable proof that you are at heart a friend of Hempfest.
77
@56: "It's maybe a small insult to a band nobody's heard of, but we take our commitments seriously. To us it was personally insulting and slanderous. Fuck them."
The Hempfest organizers did something similar to Sir Mix-a-Lot when weather rained out his set four or five years ago. That's the reason he and his band played Taste of Edmonds last Saturday rather than Hempfest.
The Hempfest organizers did something similar to Sir Mix-a-Lot when weather rained out his set four or five years ago. That's the reason he and his band played Taste of Edmonds last Saturday rather than Hempfest.
78
Dominic was welcome at the backstages of all the other stages. While I don't agree with kicking him out of the back of mainstage, I understand the concern that Dominic was potentially seeking more fodder for his blog. Criticism is one thing, but public denigration because a giant organization of volunteers doesn't turn course to follow one person's recommendations is another.
I agree Hempfest shouldn't have gotten so hurt about a few words in a blog, but when someone who has been a member of your family for so long publicly humiliates you and has nothing positive to say, it hurts. There are ways to criticize without sounding like Hempfest is dead and you are its savior. Hempfest should have taken the high road that no one seems to have taken in this situation.
On a lighter note, the festival drew record crowds, so apparently not everyone is offended by tie-dyes on the stages.
I agree Hempfest shouldn't have gotten so hurt about a few words in a blog, but when someone who has been a member of your family for so long publicly humiliates you and has nothing positive to say, it hurts. There are ways to criticize without sounding like Hempfest is dead and you are its savior. Hempfest should have taken the high road that no one seems to have taken in this situation.
On a lighter note, the festival drew record crowds, so apparently not everyone is offended by tie-dyes on the stages.
79
Actually, after a number of individuals reached out to you after your initial article, which called Hempfest a "ghetto", and saw your continued negativity-many of us decided you have a job to do and you have to have readers to keep your job. You, like anyone else whose livelihood depends on ratings or numbers of readers will say what it takes for the pay check. We don't receive paychecks-we will do what we need to do to accomplish our goals. No one has ceased caring for you. If you did this to a corporate event-you would not even have gotten the pass you did get. I think it is important (for everyone-not just the author of this SLOG) to remember that the event being discussed has over 140 year round coordinators-0 of whom get paid. All of whom use and donate their money and items to the event. Maybe the author is right and we need to make some of the changes wants. We will just need to change one other little detail...
Hempfest would no longer be a free event. I know we ask for a donation and we bug you for money and you buy food and all that...but the fact is there is NOT A SINGLE OTHER EVENT that you can attend for free for two days and have 6 stages of entertainment to choose from...want to see an upgrade? I wonder...are you willing to pay for it?
Just a thought...it is free...think if it as a present....so the socks are tie dyed instead of argyle..they are still a pair of fucking socks.....
DANKmomma
(oh, and I hope some of the folks who came both days did have a good time)
Hempfest would no longer be a free event. I know we ask for a donation and we bug you for money and you buy food and all that...but the fact is there is NOT A SINGLE OTHER EVENT that you can attend for free for two days and have 6 stages of entertainment to choose from...want to see an upgrade? I wonder...are you willing to pay for it?
Just a thought...it is free...think if it as a present....so the socks are tie dyed instead of argyle..they are still a pair of fucking socks.....
DANKmomma
(oh, and I hope some of the folks who came both days did have a good time)
80
One more note. Anyone here who has never had a chance to meet this mysterious and egotistical board of directors...can do so often. They are usually the ones handing out the fliers about the event..they also come to our staff potlucks and hang out...um...and they are pretty cool... and I suggest you go somewhere far from here...some other state 2 or 3 states away even-well, I will only say this. I quit telling people what I do at hempfest because I, like most of our board, don't really want the extra attention. quite frankly Dom, I think the "celebrity status" thing helped you get to where you are right now and um, is what you were counting on to keep you away from back stage main stage...you got treated just like any other reporter would have...you just wanted more.
81
Totally, Dom! I had the same thing happen. I was dating this chick for 2 years and then we broke up. I kept coming over to her house and she started to get weird about it. She kept telling me about how I was obsessing and couldn't move on and about how way creepy that was; blah, blah, blah. She even suggested that I need counciling!
Then one day when she came home I had let myself in and was MAKING HER DINNER and she goes all weird and calls the cops. Can you believe they ordered me to leave?! Uh, I have been going there for years! Then she gets a restraining order and they say I can't come back? LAME! What happens when she gets hungry?
Well, now she is getting her final justice. EAT BLOG POST SHANNON!!!! Are you ready to take me back now? Before you answer remember, I can post again! Are you ready for that SHANNON?
Then one day when she came home I had let myself in and was MAKING HER DINNER and she goes all weird and calls the cops. Can you believe they ordered me to leave?! Uh, I have been going there for years! Then she gets a restraining order and they say I can't come back? LAME! What happens when she gets hungry?
Well, now she is getting her final justice. EAT BLOG POST SHANNON!!!! Are you ready to take me back now? Before you answer remember, I can post again! Are you ready for that SHANNON?
82
DANK momma, your thin skin is clouding your objectivity. There is plenty positive about Hempfest in each of these articles.
Also, your characterization that this is a hit job for money is completely disingenuous - even you can see that he is doing this out of a love for the festival, and that he could have written a glowing article about your hippie party and still gotten paid, still kept his job.
The shame lands on you, too, here. I hope you are sensitive enough to see how unfair your comments are.
Also, your characterization that this is a hit job for money is completely disingenuous - even you can see that he is doing this out of a love for the festival, and that he could have written a glowing article about your hippie party and still gotten paid, still kept his job.
The shame lands on you, too, here. I hope you are sensitive enough to see how unfair your comments are.
83
I'm with Dom...it's like Gay Pride with the excessive emphasis on rainbow merchandise, drag queens, leathermen and dykes on bikes. There's nothing wrong with tie-dye, hippies, rainbow flags, drag queens, leathermen and dykes on their bikes, (bless all their in your face, little hearts) but focusing so intently on the most visible signs of a culture/movement is a disservice to the culture/movement as a whole and the majority of hemp lovers who aren't dirty hippies and the majority of queers who've never worn drag, leather or rainbow hued mullets. There's more to the Hemp Rights movement that hippies and tie-dye, and there's a helluva lot more to Gay Rights than drag queens and leatherman on rainbow hued floats.
84
@17 and @35
Gee, guys. Between Hempfest volunteers (God bless 'em!) and the League of Women Voters, 594 registration forms were completed this year.
I believe you, about you not getting very many people to register, but maybe it's something about how you go about the process, not the tie-dye or the stupid uncommitted pot smoking kids-these-days or something.
Come volunteer next year. The Voter Registration team can help you get lots of legible complete registrations. I think you'll find that it's more fun when you have more success.
Gee, guys. Between Hempfest volunteers (God bless 'em!) and the League of Women Voters, 594 registration forms were completed this year.
I believe you, about you not getting very many people to register, but maybe it's something about how you go about the process, not the tie-dye or the stupid uncommitted pot smoking kids-these-days or something.
Come volunteer next year. The Voter Registration team can help you get lots of legible complete registrations. I think you'll find that it's more fun when you have more success.
86
Dominic,
I'm glad to hear you are staying relatively positive. Conflict happens. How we deal with it often defines us in the same way that our focus on our enemies follows us through life.
Its funny how the differences between people who are interested in the same issue often get in the way of cooperating.
Maybe we need another cannabis summit outside the confines of Hempfest to discuss concerns like these to the community.
My take, well-intentioned contributing hippies are good, Haters + Gangstas bad at Hempfest. I'm sick of hearing pissed off and angry music at Hempfest. Maybe I'm missing something.
We want to see you back at Hempfest Dominic!
Here's to Raw Cannabis People Power!
Cheers,
Daniel Johnson, Hemp Ride participant
(flyer) http://bit.ly/CtuSL
I'm glad to hear you are staying relatively positive. Conflict happens. How we deal with it often defines us in the same way that our focus on our enemies follows us through life.
Its funny how the differences between people who are interested in the same issue often get in the way of cooperating.
Maybe we need another cannabis summit outside the confines of Hempfest to discuss concerns like these to the community.
My take, well-intentioned contributing hippies are good, Haters + Gangstas bad at Hempfest. I'm sick of hearing pissed off and angry music at Hempfest. Maybe I'm missing something.
We want to see you back at Hempfest Dominic!
Here's to Raw Cannabis People Power!
Cheers,
Daniel Johnson, Hemp Ride participant
(flyer) http://bit.ly/CtuSL
87
@ 47 & 85,
Come on, Dorsol is hardly opposed to people wanting to smoke pot or engage in their free speech rights. He's said in public he's in favor of legalization. (And who could ask for a better last name or campaign logo to campaign at Hempfest?)
As one of the volunteers with him, though, it was sad to see how many folks cheered "Legalize!" and them seemed surprised when we asked if they had voted yet or, worse, admitted that they aren't registered.
More importantly, as #17 referred to, we were happy to let quite a number of folks know that they can actually get their voting rights back now -- after they told us they couldn't vote because they're felons. You wouldn't believe the looks on people's faces and it was a pleasure to point them towards the entrance and tell them to look for the guys with "REGISTER HERE" signs.
Come on, Dorsol is hardly opposed to people wanting to smoke pot or engage in their free speech rights. He's said in public he's in favor of legalization. (And who could ask for a better last name or campaign logo to campaign at Hempfest?)
As one of the volunteers with him, though, it was sad to see how many folks cheered "Legalize!" and them seemed surprised when we asked if they had voted yet or, worse, admitted that they aren't registered.
More importantly, as #17 referred to, we were happy to let quite a number of folks know that they can actually get their voting rights back now -- after they told us they couldn't vote because they're felons. You wouldn't believe the looks on people's faces and it was a pleasure to point them towards the entrance and tell them to look for the guys with "REGISTER HERE" signs.
89
Hempfest has always made me feel incredibly uncomfortable. There's nothing there for the "normal" pot smoking person. For Hempest to say that they are trying to show the community examples of real advocates and enthusiasts is ridiculous. Hempfest is in itself a barrier to progress. The image put forth by Hempfest is not one that promotes the idea that your "average" person smokes. The whole place is one big stereotype. Until Hempfest expands its scope to make every kind of smoker feel welcome it will just be seen as a rally of ancient hippies and underage thugs.
90
From Dominic's post about this on his Faceboo…:
"Patrick McCartney
As I recall, Dominic turned me down for a backstage pass in 2004 since I was media. So I find the turn of events somewhat ironic. While he and others deride hippies, they were also the anti-war protesters who inspired Nixon's war on drugs. -- An Old Hippie
Yesterday at 12:32pm"
Karma. It really does exist!
"Patrick McCartney
As I recall, Dominic turned me down for a backstage pass in 2004 since I was media. So I find the turn of events somewhat ironic. While he and others deride hippies, they were also the anti-war protesters who inspired Nixon's war on drugs. -- An Old Hippie
Yesterday at 12:32pm"
Karma. It really does exist!
91
"Honor diversity of opinions, unless it's different from ours." Sounds like something that would happen in Eugene, Oregon, as well.
92
@89: You're right. Hempfest is aimed at freaks, not at "normal" or "average" people. But that's exactly the way it should be. Some of us _are_ freaks and enjoy having an event like this where we can go and relax and be our freak selves in public around other freaks without normal people freaking out about it. If Hempfest were rebranded as a mainstream-friendly political rally catering to the average normal potsmoking American, it would stop being fun for us freaks.
Normal Americans don't need a Hempfest any more than normal non-outrageous gays need a parade, or any more than white Americans need a month celebrating their racial heritage. When you're mainstream, you have enough ownership of our society already.
Normal Americans don't need a Hempfest any more than normal non-outrageous gays need a parade, or any more than white Americans need a month celebrating their racial heritage. When you're mainstream, you have enough ownership of our society already.
94
@92: Aloysius, Hempfest's publicly-stated purpose is not to provide a fun time for freaks, it is:
If that's no longer the purpose, then Hempfest's mission statement should be revised, and people might quit offering suggestions for how Hempfest could better accomplish that mission.
Seattle Hempfest Mission Statement
Seattle Hempfest is founded in the belief that the public is better served when citizens and public officials work cooperatively in order to successfully accomplish common goals.
Objective and Purpose
To educate the public on the myriad of potential benefits offered by the Cannabis plant, including the medicinal, industrial, agricultural, economic, environmental, and other benefits and applications. In particular, Seattle Hempfest seeks to advance the cause of Cannabis policy reform through education, while advancing the public image of the Cannabis advocate or enthusiast through example.
If that's no longer the purpose, then Hempfest's mission statement should be revised, and people might quit offering suggestions for how Hempfest could better accomplish that mission.
95
I’ll chime in again here…
My husband and I are both very out gay men and I will tell you we did not feel comfortable at Hempfest this year. I heard more people using anti-gay slang last Sunday then I have for a long time, here in Seattle.
From the guy behind me in line talking about how queer something was(not in a good way) as I was waiting to get in to the fag insults that I group of kids were yelling at each other near the last stage. This was not a positive experience for me. Add to that we were the only openly gay couple we saw the entire 3 hours we walked around and it really “harshed my mellow”.
I said it in an earlier post that if Hempfest was what it would look like after legalization I might vote against it.
To those of you trying to compare Gay Pride to Hempfest- FUCK OFF. If a post equality world looked like Pride the world would be a better place.
You do yourselves a major disservice comparing fabulous drag queens to pot leaf bandana wearing punks. Drag Queens, leathermen and radical Queers push the boundaries making the world a safer place for “normal queers. This event draws in people from the Crappy suburbs (I am talking to you Kent and Lynnwood)and does very little to advance the legalization cause.
My husband and I are both very out gay men and I will tell you we did not feel comfortable at Hempfest this year. I heard more people using anti-gay slang last Sunday then I have for a long time, here in Seattle.
From the guy behind me in line talking about how queer something was(not in a good way) as I was waiting to get in to the fag insults that I group of kids were yelling at each other near the last stage. This was not a positive experience for me. Add to that we were the only openly gay couple we saw the entire 3 hours we walked around and it really “harshed my mellow”.
I said it in an earlier post that if Hempfest was what it would look like after legalization I might vote against it.
To those of you trying to compare Gay Pride to Hempfest- FUCK OFF. If a post equality world looked like Pride the world would be a better place.
You do yourselves a major disservice comparing fabulous drag queens to pot leaf bandana wearing punks. Drag Queens, leathermen and radical Queers push the boundaries making the world a safer place for “normal queers. This event draws in people from the Crappy suburbs (I am talking to you Kent and Lynnwood)and does very little to advance the legalization cause.
96
this dialog is painful and off the point completely... Congratulations Dom for joining the crass critical ranks of the downer rag the Stranger and offering criticism that has no direction towards intelligent and informed discussion.. Ive known you for years and its kinda sad to see you guiding this in such a ridiculous direction.. So much attention is now focused on the "look and smell" of HF and not the political messages, which a few years back you seemed to give a damn about. ie people are still being tossed into jail for medical use, but clearly the tie dyed backdrops from one of the stages and a vendor called "tye dye everything" is far more worthy of coverage.. bleg~
97
@94 you are correct - the mission should be changed. it has outgrown that mission. let MPP, DPA, VCL and ACLU advance the "public image" with suits and lobbyists.
@95 you are offended by people using gay slurs, yet you totally diss on anyone from kent and lynnwood. bigotry begets bigotry. love happens by example. i feel terrible that people still use gay slurs, but unfortunately that happens a lot of places, not just hempfest, nor is it condoned by hempfest, and i will make it a point to see what can be done for next year to encourage tolerance of all kind at the festival.
when you have 100's of thousands of people show up to your festival, you cannot possibly control what the public image of those people are. people are people, and they should be allowed to show up and express themselves freely without the fashion police at the stranger coming down on them. when you hold an event that draws 350,000, politicans take notice. look at NASCAR. they dress funny and come from "crappy suburbs" as well, but politicans now consider them a class of voters. sheer numbers, people. if hempfest were all drab, no bands, only boring lecturers - no one would come! what kind of a movement is that?
@95 you are offended by people using gay slurs, yet you totally diss on anyone from kent and lynnwood. bigotry begets bigotry. love happens by example. i feel terrible that people still use gay slurs, but unfortunately that happens a lot of places, not just hempfest, nor is it condoned by hempfest, and i will make it a point to see what can be done for next year to encourage tolerance of all kind at the festival.
when you have 100's of thousands of people show up to your festival, you cannot possibly control what the public image of those people are. people are people, and they should be allowed to show up and express themselves freely without the fashion police at the stranger coming down on them. when you hold an event that draws 350,000, politicans take notice. look at NASCAR. they dress funny and come from "crappy suburbs" as well, but politicans now consider them a class of voters. sheer numbers, people. if hempfest were all drab, no bands, only boring lecturers - no one would come! what kind of a movement is that?
98
oh, and with most things, it's easier to bitch than actually contribute to change. people complain but fail to recognize that an extremely small number of people actually work to put this event on (150 on the year-round core staff, but far less who actually do the work). putting on the event itself is so overwhelming, that change can be slow to occur. but if you want to actually walk the walk, become a part of the all-volunteer crew at www.hempfest.org.
99
Dominic, you must have been ousted shortly after I had a chance to say hi to you and your brother backstage. I had my media people nearly kicked out of backstage at Main Stage as well, as Hempfest had a "backstage escort" requirement this year. Any folks with media passes without an accompanying speaker or musical performer were kicked out, I was told. Too many people trying to relax backstage didn't want any photos or stories about what they were doing, I guess.
I appreciated the back-and-forth we had on this topic over at the Stash. I'm still of the opinion that 200,000 people gathered peacefully in a park for a weekend openly smoking marijuana while an all-volunteer crew wrangles hundreds of vendors and six stages is enough of a political statement as it is.
I also understand the "that ain't me" reaction from many pot smokers. It's the same reaction my wife gives when she sees bud-covered naked women in High Times Magazine. To that I say, great, please, form a new magazine or present a new Hempfest for all the cannabis-closeted squares to come enjoy. If there are so many who are so uncomfortable with hippie tie-dye patchouli-stained ghettoes, there surely should be a huge audience for the new Short-Haired Respectable Polos & Dockers Hempfest with special guest Kenny G, and there must be plenty of ad revenue available for the new Cannabis Connoisseur Magazine.
Many have brought up the Hempfest "Objective and Purpose". 200,000 people openly smoking pot equaling no disaster is a huge example of "educat[ing] the public" "through example". Panels on hemp, media, medicine, politics, and law at Hemposium are nothing but educating the public. NORML, Oregon NORML, SAFER, and other non-profits are educating the public. Vendors selling everything you can make from hemp are educating the public.
Personally, my walking an estimated seven miles through wall-to-wall people to speak on four stages was educating the public. I guarantee you hundreds of people now have the Congressional Switchboard (202-224-3121) and the White House Comment Line (202-456-1111) programmed in their cell phones now from speeches by me and Madeline Martinez. Hundreds of people now know the prohibition stories of GA Rep. Tommy "Caning for Potheads" Benton, Michigan student Derek Copp, and Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo. I spent 25 minutes at Laughs Comedy Stage educating a growing crowd about police tactics in drug busts, marijuana health statistics, marijuana usage statistics, Constitutional rights, and state and federal legislation.
Hempfest is what it is and is the most successful one of its kind. The criticisms you leveled at Hempfest were taken culturally by people who consider themselves hippies and represent themselves with tie-dye and other counter-cultural attire. Don't be surprised they took it like organizers of a pro-Israel rally might take it if you suggested more mainstream people would be attracted to their cause if they got rid of all the Hebrew writing, offered some pork dishes, and kept those guys dressed in all black with the funny hats and curly-q sideburns off the stage.
I know that's not how you intended it; you intended constructive criticism for a huge public event to be more effective. I also know you didn't mean it personally; I've hung out with you at Hempfest and other events before and I know you to not be abrasive or insulting. But in this case, Dom, you may have just been a bit culturally insensitive. The people pouring their heart into Hempfest are hippies, so "lose the hippie vibe" sounds like "you people bring us all down" to them, and that's a helluva thing to read when you're dedicating a large part of your life to something.
And, in fact, the hippies go out of their way to make Hempfest as diverse as possible. I heard a 1930's style old timey band, hardcore gangsta rap, a bitchin' jazz acoustic guitar player, and an Ozzy Osbourne cover all on the same Main Stage (not all at once, of course). I saw Boca, Veggie, and Beef burgers served for the backstage VIPs. There was a Dancesafe stage playing the most unhippie electronica possible. I saw more guylinered multi-chained-droopy-drawers Goth kids than I did hippies.
Finally, as one commenter above made the point of "white folks don't need a month", Hempfest is for the freaky, the counter-cultural, the hippie to celebrate marijuana. The conservative-looking minivan-driving couple with the house in the hills who smoke pot in the garage when the kids are away don't need a Hempfest; they're not the ones getting harassed by police and busted for marijuana. (It's a bit of a chicken and egg, isn't it? The squares don't want to be busted like hippies, so only the hippies are left to agitate for marijuana legalization, which the squares would support if only if weren't so hippified. I say the hippies have done their share. I am ready and willing to give speeches at Squarefest whenever it comes to fruition.)
Russ Belville
Host - NORML SHOW LIVE and NORML Daily Audio Stash
More...
I appreciated the back-and-forth we had on this topic over at the Stash. I'm still of the opinion that 200,000 people gathered peacefully in a park for a weekend openly smoking marijuana while an all-volunteer crew wrangles hundreds of vendors and six stages is enough of a political statement as it is.
I also understand the "that ain't me" reaction from many pot smokers. It's the same reaction my wife gives when she sees bud-covered naked women in High Times Magazine. To that I say, great, please, form a new magazine or present a new Hempfest for all the cannabis-closeted squares to come enjoy. If there are so many who are so uncomfortable with hippie tie-dye patchouli-stained ghettoes, there surely should be a huge audience for the new Short-Haired Respectable Polos & Dockers Hempfest with special guest Kenny G, and there must be plenty of ad revenue available for the new Cannabis Connoisseur Magazine.
Many have brought up the Hempfest "Objective and Purpose". 200,000 people openly smoking pot equaling no disaster is a huge example of "educat[ing] the public" "through example". Panels on hemp, media, medicine, politics, and law at Hemposium are nothing but educating the public. NORML, Oregon NORML, SAFER, and other non-profits are educating the public. Vendors selling everything you can make from hemp are educating the public.
Personally, my walking an estimated seven miles through wall-to-wall people to speak on four stages was educating the public. I guarantee you hundreds of people now have the Congressional Switchboard (202-224-3121) and the White House Comment Line (202-456-1111) programmed in their cell phones now from speeches by me and Madeline Martinez. Hundreds of people now know the prohibition stories of GA Rep. Tommy "Caning for Potheads" Benton, Michigan student Derek Copp, and Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo. I spent 25 minutes at Laughs Comedy Stage educating a growing crowd about police tactics in drug busts, marijuana health statistics, marijuana usage statistics, Constitutional rights, and state and federal legislation.
Hempfest is what it is and is the most successful one of its kind. The criticisms you leveled at Hempfest were taken culturally by people who consider themselves hippies and represent themselves with tie-dye and other counter-cultural attire. Don't be surprised they took it like organizers of a pro-Israel rally might take it if you suggested more mainstream people would be attracted to their cause if they got rid of all the Hebrew writing, offered some pork dishes, and kept those guys dressed in all black with the funny hats and curly-q sideburns off the stage.
I know that's not how you intended it; you intended constructive criticism for a huge public event to be more effective. I also know you didn't mean it personally; I've hung out with you at Hempfest and other events before and I know you to not be abrasive or insulting. But in this case, Dom, you may have just been a bit culturally insensitive. The people pouring their heart into Hempfest are hippies, so "lose the hippie vibe" sounds like "you people bring us all down" to them, and that's a helluva thing to read when you're dedicating a large part of your life to something.
And, in fact, the hippies go out of their way to make Hempfest as diverse as possible. I heard a 1930's style old timey band, hardcore gangsta rap, a bitchin' jazz acoustic guitar player, and an Ozzy Osbourne cover all on the same Main Stage (not all at once, of course). I saw Boca, Veggie, and Beef burgers served for the backstage VIPs. There was a Dancesafe stage playing the most unhippie electronica possible. I saw more guylinered multi-chained-droopy-drawers Goth kids than I did hippies.
Finally, as one commenter above made the point of "white folks don't need a month", Hempfest is for the freaky, the counter-cultural, the hippie to celebrate marijuana. The conservative-looking minivan-driving couple with the house in the hills who smoke pot in the garage when the kids are away don't need a Hempfest; they're not the ones getting harassed by police and busted for marijuana. (It's a bit of a chicken and egg, isn't it? The squares don't want to be busted like hippies, so only the hippies are left to agitate for marijuana legalization, which the squares would support if only if weren't so hippified. I say the hippies have done their share. I am ready and willing to give speeches at Squarefest whenever it comes to fruition.)
Russ Belville
Host - NORML SHOW LIVE and NORML Daily Audio Stash
100
@96: Michael, if the look and smell are unimportant to people who are part of it, then why all the opposition to making it look and smell like something that people who are presently turned off are more likely to be interested in? Is the goal to reach a wide variety of people or not?
101
i also have to add that I LOVE DOMINIC HOLDEN, and am a huge fan of his. he actually took that picture of "tye dye everything" while shopping with me for tie-dye knee highs (for being a drug policy reformer, i actually wear way too many suits and have very little tie-dye). and i agree with russ, which is why as a hempfest core staffer i still love dom very much, that Dom only has the best intentions with his criticisms because he really does want hempfest to succeed and reform to happen. my only suggestion: place your criticisms in the compliment sandwich. you get more bees with honey! and come on, you know there weren't just tie-dye booths. there were lots of other booths for people who don't like tie-dye, like the booths selling gas-mask bongs, and the i heart vagina inc. booth. ha! seriously, though, there were also booths selling really cool t-shirt designs, quality hemp clothing, non-profits, handmade carved jewelry, yummy food (ballard bros, mighty-o's, thai tom!)
ok, i'll quit commenting. i am going to push for a "suggestions" email on the hempfest website so people can give their suggestions. please take advantage of this. we want hempfest to be for everyone!
ok, i'll quit commenting. i am going to push for a "suggestions" email on the hempfest website so people can give their suggestions. please take advantage of this. we want hempfest to be for everyone!
102
@80: While it's great that board members flyer for Hempfest, it doesn't seem like that should make it okay for them to say, "this is my party, you can't be here!" I'm sure most of you aren't like that; it's unfortunate that you are represented by a few who are.
@97 & @98: Let's not forget that this tempest started when a few Hempfest board members (over)reacted to 2 words in a 45 word sentence in an article Dominic wrote about a marijuana decriminalization bill in the state legislature. That article in itself was a great piece of marijuana activism. You would be hard-pressed to suggest that Dominic is merely complaining without contributing his labor.
@97 & @98: Let's not forget that this tempest started when a few Hempfest board members (over)reacted to 2 words in a 45 word sentence in an article Dominic wrote about a marijuana decriminalization bill in the state legislature. That article in itself was a great piece of marijuana activism. You would be hard-pressed to suggest that Dominic is merely complaining without contributing his labor.
103
@97, 98, 99: Westseattlered and Russ, good points. Maybe (probably) internally, everything is fine. Given discussions I've read and heard lately, there does seem to be some disconnect between the reality and a lot of people's perceptions of the event. Maybe that's fine with Hempfest organizers.
If we can get 200,000 people to show up with the event in its current state (and WOW! by the way) think what could happen with a bit of tuning of the messaging. Would another 25% -- 250,000 attendees -- be too many? 300,000? What's the target? Is there a target?
It's shocking that an event of this magnitude can be run by a team of volunteers just kind of doing what they've been doing from the beginning only doing more of it. That it works is a testament to their dedication. Unless there's some strategic development happening behind the scenes, though, it's probably not reaching its potential, and that's a shame, even if it's perfectly satisfying as-is.
Maybe without even changing a thing besides the messaging, a more accurate picture of the event could be communicated to those who are turned off by what they see from afar now. Maybe rearranging the layout a bit would leave room up front for people who want to dip their toes in the Hempfest water, talk to NORML, look into getting medical marijuana for an ailing relative, find out about the state of industrial hemp, and see Rick Steves and Nick Licata speak, while still leaving plenty of room for hippies, tie-dye flags, naked bicyclists, prayer wheels, Ron Jeremy, and people smoking out of six-foot bongs farther north.
Such conceptual and physical rearranging of things would take some doing, and of course this is an all-volunteer event, so someone would have to do the work. HELLO! Dominic is practically begging to be that person. Why not tell him to put up or shut up? If the primary goal is to have a big party and preach to the choir, then tell him to STFU about adjusting the "sights and smells" to appeal to a broader base and move on with the status quo.
As a relatively unbiased third party who's mostly an outsider when it comes to Hempfest, I think people would be well off to consider the merit of his campaign before denouncing him as a traitor. The way this conflict is playing out suggests to me that there's a lot of ego getting in the way of rational thought, and if that's the case, it's unfortunate for everyone involved.
Why all the opposition to presenting the event as something that people who are not part of the counterculture might want to attend? You can look down upon them a squares with minivans smoking in their garages hills, or you can look at them as another 50,000 people who could be out there spreading the word in circles that the core Hempfest people are not part of and probably don't want to be a part of. They don't need Hempfest but Hempfest needs everyone it can get. I kind of have one foot in each of those worlds, I want to get everyone we can to be on our side when it comes to drug law reform, and I -- along with a lot of other people -- think Dominic is on to something, even if he's going about things in an overly-provocative (and very Strangeresque, in case anyone didn't notice) way.
There's a big chunk of people in my life who wouldn't miss Hempfest, and there's a big chunk of of people in my life who don't even consider it. I wish there was not so much of a split. Imagine an enormous Seattle event with Hempfest on one end, Bumbershoot, Block Party, or Bite of fucking Seattle on the other, and a whole lot of mixing in the middle so that people can be as square or as freaky as they like. It's probably not feasible, and something specifically like it may not even be desirable, but the gist of it sounds pretty appealing, and nothing like it is ever going to happen if people flip out every time someone takes a step towards their turf.
Phil Mocek
Member, Cannabis Defense Coalition
Board of Directors, Capitol Hill Chamber of Commerce
Chair, Capitol Hill Neighborhood Plan Stewardship Council
semi-square computer geek with a thin streak of freak, Hempfest supporter
More...
If we can get 200,000 people to show up with the event in its current state (and WOW! by the way) think what could happen with a bit of tuning of the messaging. Would another 25% -- 250,000 attendees -- be too many? 300,000? What's the target? Is there a target?
It's shocking that an event of this magnitude can be run by a team of volunteers just kind of doing what they've been doing from the beginning only doing more of it. That it works is a testament to their dedication. Unless there's some strategic development happening behind the scenes, though, it's probably not reaching its potential, and that's a shame, even if it's perfectly satisfying as-is.
Maybe without even changing a thing besides the messaging, a more accurate picture of the event could be communicated to those who are turned off by what they see from afar now. Maybe rearranging the layout a bit would leave room up front for people who want to dip their toes in the Hempfest water, talk to NORML, look into getting medical marijuana for an ailing relative, find out about the state of industrial hemp, and see Rick Steves and Nick Licata speak, while still leaving plenty of room for hippies, tie-dye flags, naked bicyclists, prayer wheels, Ron Jeremy, and people smoking out of six-foot bongs farther north.
Such conceptual and physical rearranging of things would take some doing, and of course this is an all-volunteer event, so someone would have to do the work. HELLO! Dominic is practically begging to be that person. Why not tell him to put up or shut up? If the primary goal is to have a big party and preach to the choir, then tell him to STFU about adjusting the "sights and smells" to appeal to a broader base and move on with the status quo.
As a relatively unbiased third party who's mostly an outsider when it comes to Hempfest, I think people would be well off to consider the merit of his campaign before denouncing him as a traitor. The way this conflict is playing out suggests to me that there's a lot of ego getting in the way of rational thought, and if that's the case, it's unfortunate for everyone involved.
Why all the opposition to presenting the event as something that people who are not part of the counterculture might want to attend? You can look down upon them a squares with minivans smoking in their garages hills, or you can look at them as another 50,000 people who could be out there spreading the word in circles that the core Hempfest people are not part of and probably don't want to be a part of. They don't need Hempfest but Hempfest needs everyone it can get. I kind of have one foot in each of those worlds, I want to get everyone we can to be on our side when it comes to drug law reform, and I -- along with a lot of other people -- think Dominic is on to something, even if he's going about things in an overly-provocative (and very Strangeresque, in case anyone didn't notice) way.
There's a big chunk of people in my life who wouldn't miss Hempfest, and there's a big chunk of of people in my life who don't even consider it. I wish there was not so much of a split. Imagine an enormous Seattle event with Hempfest on one end, Bumbershoot, Block Party, or Bite of fucking Seattle on the other, and a whole lot of mixing in the middle so that people can be as square or as freaky as they like. It's probably not feasible, and something specifically like it may not even be desirable, but the gist of it sounds pretty appealing, and nothing like it is ever going to happen if people flip out every time someone takes a step towards their turf.
Phil Mocek
Member, Cannabis Defense Coalition
Board of Directors, Capitol Hill Chamber of Commerce
Chair, Capitol Hill Neighborhood Plan Stewardship Council
semi-square computer geek with a thin streak of freak, Hempfest supporter
104
Free Lunch-you may be right, I may be sensitive to this issue-on the other hand I may also believe that we as individuals-if we are communicating effectively can find middle ground and work together. I tried to make this happen a few months ago...it is apparently impossible in this situation. I truly feel that if any of this were about Hempfest having les tie dye, more "mainstream" speakers, etc. those in the media who share our beliefs could use the extended reach of their voices to say "Hey Hempfest needs to update their image--who wants to help by donating a banner?" or etc, etc, or using that voice to get the "mainstream" people they media types say we don't have there? This is why I am so sensitive...Dom is highlighting a problem, just to highlight the problem...be part of the solution then it is something more than negativity. I think that is all I ever asked. And this not just in this area...it is something we each need to do in our lives a little more often...if there is a problem help fix it, don't just bitch and demand someone else fix it.
105
Wellps, we commented on this about a month and a half ago, and it went exactly like this:
Dom, please don't ever show your face again at Burner events
At the time, a whole shit-ton of optimistics and burners jumped all down my throat for a realistic and factual perspective that Dominic Holden now held the duplicity of being a member of everything and an employee of nothing...thus rendering a healthy and critical curiosity of how this change role would play out.
I leave it at that.
A good read:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
Dom, please don't ever show your face again at Burner events
At the time, a whole shit-ton of optimistics and burners jumped all down my throat for a realistic and factual perspective that Dominic Holden now held the duplicity of being a member of everything and an employee of nothing...thus rendering a healthy and critical curiosity of how this change role would play out.
I leave it at that.
A good read:
http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
106
95
"Drag Queens, leathermen and radical Queers push the boundaries making the world a safer place for “normal queers". "
you misjudge the American mind
"Drag Queens, leathermen and radical Queers push the boundaries making the world a safer place for “normal queers". "
you misjudge the American mind
107
It's the media that puts inordinate focus on the tie-dye, the drag queens and the leathermen. I could've taken countless pictures at Hempfest that had no "hippie culture" in them, and anyone who's seen a recent gay pride parade would know that they're mostly political, largely pedestrian events that are sensationalized by the media. Dom's (the media's) obsession with the odd traditions of Hempfest only contributes to the distortion of public perception, and to the alienation of non-hippies. It's the coverage that does this, not the reality.
If he wants Hempfest to be more "inclusive", he should stop insisting that I and others are put-off by the presence of hippies, and start paying more attention to what Hempfest is really about, and to the more substantive issues. Did you see the schedule?? There was plenty to report on. Besides, I'm not a hippie, but I liked that stage with the tie-dye. It's just fabric, and it doesn't alienate me at all.
If he wants Hempfest to be more "inclusive", he should stop insisting that I and others are put-off by the presence of hippies, and start paying more attention to what Hempfest is really about, and to the more substantive issues. Did you see the schedule?? There was plenty to report on. Besides, I'm not a hippie, but I liked that stage with the tie-dye. It's just fabric, and it doesn't alienate me at all.
108
p.s. It's clear, Dom, that you were hurt by this, and I'm glad you have a place where you can come to seek support -- where others will back you up and offer their shoulders. I hope you feel better, 'cause I love your writing.
109
You people are unbelievable. The comments in this thread are precisely why I don't go to Shempfest. I volunteered in 200? and have never returned. I've been to rainbow nationals, am OCFF and have made rope sandals in Missouri. I'm a dirty fucking hippy. I was turned off by the entire situation when I was volunteer staff. The whole scene was kind of frenetic and toxic.
The responses of Shempfest leadership proves my first impressions correct. It's all about them and that's no movement.
That said, I don't think it's appropriate to report on an issue like this. It's probably not professional to use media to air a personal beef. Dominic knew he was firing across the bow by posting this. This hippy would call that agro bullshit.
Can't we just snap a binger and be friends again.
The responses of Shempfest leadership proves my first impressions correct. It's all about them and that's no movement.
That said, I don't think it's appropriate to report on an issue like this. It's probably not professional to use media to air a personal beef. Dominic knew he was firing across the bow by posting this. This hippy would call that agro bullshit.
Can't we just snap a binger and be friends again.
110
Pot is the DRAW, not the bands or the decorations. And EVERY walk of life smokes pot. So therefore catering to as many of them as possible is ideal for an event where people are supposed to enjoy themselves, that way there's something for everyone.
111
DOM, seems like you have taken the same position all the "suit" reformers have taken over the years. Reminds me of the arguements against Smoke-Ins and direct action efforts. Their is no separation of the movement just because you say so. It is a little anal for you to point out vendors of "Tye dye" that pay for space and make the event possible. As far as I could see, the crowd was varied and unique in every way. It was my first year, but the smoke of liberty was everywhere. Why weren't you celebrating? Paul Cornwell // Atlanta CAMP // The Great Atlanta Pot Festival
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