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News & ArtsMonday, September 7, 2009
Sex Remember, Kids: Outing Is WRONG
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Well, at least it's wrong when gay people do it to other gay people—like when Mike Rogers outs a closeted gay politician who uses his office to do real harm to other gay people. When Rogers outs a piece of shit closet case like South Carolina Lt. Governor Andre Bauer or Florida Governor Charlie Crist, there's always a lot of handwringing about the emotional violence of outing, the unfairness of exposing someone's private life, the vicious and low motives of the people doing the outing, blah blah blah. But no one objects to outing when the police do it to nobodies:
“It doesn't matter whether you’re heterosexual or homosexual, this is not targeting men, it’s targeting people that are openly out in a county park on trails who've been seen by family members and others, engaging in sexual activity,” said Det. Ed Troyer of the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department.Troyer said for everyone arrested, 10 more were spotted or released because they weren't caught in the act.
“Ninety-five percent of these guys are married and their biggest fear is their wife finding out. Well, their wives are going to find out,” Troyer said.
1
accusing does not equate to outing, Dan.
It's really sad that you take a bloggers blogging as fact. But then, you are immersed in this so your intellectual skepticism most likely been obliterated.
People who he won't identify have told him they have messed around with the lt. gov.! with nothing else to go off of! It's written in digital print, and not on a bathroom wall, so it must be true!
It's really sad that you take a bloggers blogging as fact. But then, you are immersed in this so your intellectual skepticism most likely been obliterated.
People who he won't identify have told him they have messed around with the lt. gov.! with nothing else to go off of! It's written in digital print, and not on a bathroom wall, so it must be true!
2
i would think that these geniuses outed themselves by having sex in a public park, but what do i know? i'm just a taint.
3
I'll come down squarely in the middle here. I've been known to have some fun in inappropriate places with people unknown to me - although the idea of going to the well-known cruisy places seemed tacky to me. I always liked the spontaneity.
And I resent that a lone man can't go to some of the more notorious parks - like Westcrest or T-107, without getting the fisheye from the non-cruisers, and the unwanted attentions of the cruisers. Sometimes it's nice just to be able to walk in the woods or on the shore without worrying about sex. If that means periodic busts, I guess that's what we need to do.
But I would also point out that we - as a state - tend to bring some of this on ourselves. Oregon, and even my native state of Iowa, allows "arcades" where a guy can go in a private room, watch some porn and maybe have a friend in there with him. In Washington state, they have the same set up, but with half-doors on the booths, staff that patrols with flashlights, and regular police busts - so naturally this sort of activity spills out into the parks.
I'd say it would be far more productive to work on repealing some of the states ridiculous morality laws so that this sort of thing can be more naturally kept in appropriate spaces, but nobody has the political courage to take on something like that.
Some men are going to cruise - there's no getting around that. The question is where do we as a society want them to cruise?
And I resent that a lone man can't go to some of the more notorious parks - like Westcrest or T-107, without getting the fisheye from the non-cruisers, and the unwanted attentions of the cruisers. Sometimes it's nice just to be able to walk in the woods or on the shore without worrying about sex. If that means periodic busts, I guess that's what we need to do.
But I would also point out that we - as a state - tend to bring some of this on ourselves. Oregon, and even my native state of Iowa, allows "arcades" where a guy can go in a private room, watch some porn and maybe have a friend in there with him. In Washington state, they have the same set up, but with half-doors on the booths, staff that patrols with flashlights, and regular police busts - so naturally this sort of activity spills out into the parks.
I'd say it would be far more productive to work on repealing some of the states ridiculous morality laws so that this sort of thing can be more naturally kept in appropriate spaces, but nobody has the political courage to take on something like that.
Some men are going to cruise - there's no getting around that. The question is where do we as a society want them to cruise?
4
It's not exactly your "private" life when you do it in a public park. And people who cheat, whether homo or hetero, aren't on my list of favorite people. Yes, I'm sure it's embarassing.
But there are clubs to go to if you need some cock. All in private where nobody will reveal your name.
But there are clubs to go to if you need some cock. All in private where nobody will reveal your name.
5
Its a waste of POPO money to bust men in parks, If you dont want to see men having sex in a park do go at night and dont look for it. It is just like the old ladies who look up dirty words in dictionarys just to be offended by them
7
Closet cases in public places - UNITE! Down with THE MAN!
Bring the giant paper mache puppets.
Let's get a benefit concert going with George Michael. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mich…
Bring the giant paper mache puppets.
Let's get a benefit concert going with George Michael. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Mich…
9
The police didn't out 'nobody'.
Behavior carries consequences.
Men who break the law and cheat on their significant other in a public place run the risk of having their behavior exposed.
The same thing happens to hetero's caught with prostitutes.
The nice Detective is right.
Dan is wrong.
Behavior carries consequences.
Men who break the law and cheat on their significant other in a public place run the risk of having their behavior exposed.
The same thing happens to hetero's caught with prostitutes.
The nice Detective is right.
Dan is wrong.
10
you seem to have a lot of sympathy for someone who just said that they didn't have a ton of sympathy for "straight" cruisers. don't these wives have a right to know that they're married to cowardly, anonymous sex-having closet cases?
11
....and the wives should find out - if for no other reason than to give informed consent. If anyone brought that shit into my bed without telling me, I'd be fucking furious.
12
Yo', why don't we pause and ask our selves why a "straight" man might go cruising for sex in a public park. It is directly rooted in their own shame of what gets their rocks off. When love and sex between men is socially accepted, I predict park cruising will subside. The first place I ever had sex with a man was in Volunteer Park in 1987. I was a closeted young man, very afraid of any gay identity. Volunteer Park was my only outlet for human touch for at least two years. Finally in the early 90s I came out and developed a sence of pride about who I am. Somewhere along the line I developed the social tools and sensibility to meet folks the normal way and cultivate relationships. I still go to the parks sometimes (Saturday night in Volunteer actually), for sport fucking, as those early years of shame ingrained "park sex" as a fetish for me. One plus about having a bunch of men standing around in a park at night hoping to find sex is that it keeps other more serious and violent crime away. These Police sting operations will not stop men from using the parks. Check your history, park and toitel cruising has been around... Well, as long as there has beel parks, in America anyway. While I've had thousands of sexual encounters in parks, I do not recomend or condone it. It is definitely risky, empty, antisocial behavior. But rather than going around arresting people and ruining lives, like in the Red Scare days, I recomend working to end the stigma associated with love and sex between men. The only way men will leave the dark shadows is if the are accepted in the light. "different people have peculiar tastes" Lou Reed. (pianfully typed on a smart phone, forgive all the errors, please)
13
Would be nice if the wives would have informed consent about having sex with their husbands who are having sex with other people. I don't care if it's men or women; it's potentially unsafe for the wife who doesn't have say-so about it happening. That's really shitty on the part of the husbands.
14
i wish ken hutchinson would be caught in one of these stings. then i and a few other people will be very happy that he got outed.
15
I can't remember, were you upset when politicians are "outed" in airport restrooms, or was that inappropriate?
17
@5, or do not go in the middle of the day, middle week, either.
I do not take my kids to the nearest park, too many men parking their work trucks and fucking in the bushes.
I do not take my kids to the nearest park, too many men parking their work trucks and fucking in the bushes.
19
Maybe for some of these men, the arrest and outing will be a blessing in disguise. Hopefully they can learn to accept themselves, and let their wives move on to straight men. I have so many friends who felt they had to get married, and have children.
Gay men need to stop being ashamed, and stop letting society pressure them into living a lie. It's not a matter of will power. If you are gay, you are gay. No amount of wishing, hoping, praying, pretending, self hating, or gay bashing is going to make you stop wanting gay sex. Marrying a woman won't make you straight. Your true sexual identity will come out, be it seeking secret sex in parks, or whatever. Denying your true self will affect you, and those around you, so just accept who you are. Find yourself another gay man, and have a good, happy, and true life.
Gay men need to stop being ashamed, and stop letting society pressure them into living a lie. It's not a matter of will power. If you are gay, you are gay. No amount of wishing, hoping, praying, pretending, self hating, or gay bashing is going to make you stop wanting gay sex. Marrying a woman won't make you straight. Your true sexual identity will come out, be it seeking secret sex in parks, or whatever. Denying your true self will affect you, and those around you, so just accept who you are. Find yourself another gay man, and have a good, happy, and true life.
21
"Its a waste of POPO money to bust men in parks, If you dont want to see men having sex in a park do go at night and dont look for it. It is just like the old ladies who look up dirty words in dictionarys just to be offended by them"
You know the difference between public property and private property, right?
"having a bunch of men standing around in a park at night hoping to find sex is that it keeps other more serious and violent crime away."
You have evidence for that fantasy fact?
You know the difference between public property and private property, right?
"having a bunch of men standing around in a park at night hoping to find sex is that it keeps other more serious and violent crime away."
You have evidence for that fantasy fact?
22
These raids by the cops might be a big waste of money, time, etc., or they may not.
They are NOT outing though. Arresting someone for breaking the law, even a bad law, is not 'exposing their behavior'. The criminal is the one who exposed it.
So, a person could honorably support these raids, and agree that outing is wrong.
They are NOT outing though. Arresting someone for breaking the law, even a bad law, is not 'exposing their behavior'. The criminal is the one who exposed it.
So, a person could honorably support these raids, and agree that outing is wrong.
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