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News & ArtsMonday, September 21, 2009
Life "By my telling you I loved you, the meaning behind this is, Jesus Christ teaches to love all people, regardless of who they are."
Posted by Eli Sanders on Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:03 AM
Last May, as I was flying down to southern Oregon to attend a Hillary Clinton rally, I found myself seated next to Pastor David Kirby of the United Family Fellowship in Klamath Falls. We talked about why he believes that Obama is a secret Muslim; why Clinton is "crooked as a snake"; how much he loves me (“I don’t even know you, man, but I love you,” Kirby told me); how he would be thinking of (and praying for) me when he got into bed that night; and how he wanted me to be thinking of him when I got into bed.
Well, of course I blogged about the experience and sent Kirby a link. More than a year ago.
Fast forward to yesterday, when a clarifying e-mail arrived in my in-box:
Hi Eli,David Kirby here. I'm the pastor you interviewed in May of last year around the time of the Clinton rally in Medford Or.
I just read the article of the interview. Thanks for printing most of what I said. However, you did miss quote me in one place. Here's your quote; " After the plane lands he tells me he’s going to pray for me as he’s getting into bed tonight. He also tells me that he hopes this image—him talking to God about me in bed—is with me while I’m in bed tonight."
What I said was, when I went to bed that night I would pray for you, that God would reveal himself to you. That I hoped that God climbed in bed with you, meaning, he would be in your thoughts all night. I do hope you will come to believe in God and his son Jesus Christ. Oh, At the time of the interview, I didn't know you were gay, but that would not have mattered to me had I known it. I am just a servant of God, not a judge.
Maybe sometime in your past, a person who said they were a Christian responded to you in a negative way. If that happened I will tell you I'm sorry in behalf of the body of Christ. God made a way for all to come to him and that is through Jesus his son. This is all in the New Testament.
One more thing. Just so you understand. By my telling you I loved you, the meaning behind this is, Jesus Christ teaches to love all people, regardless of who they are. Had you known me before I became a Christian, you would understand the "I Love You" in a different way than you portrayed in your article. Only Christ can love greater than we can imagine. We can't do anything to deserve his love, he just loves us.
I am still praying for you. If your ever in Kfalls, look me up, I'd be glad to buy your lunch.
Pastor David Kirby
3
"Had you known me before I became a Christian, you would understand the "I Love You" in a different way than you portrayed in your article."
This guy is a toilet stall away from a news story...
This guy is a toilet stall away from a news story...
4
So just because you are gay he assumes you don't know what it means when a Christian you hardly know says "I Love You." Nice.
6
I'm sure this guy's motives are pure but sure is easy to see how one the subjects in the ongoing Youth Pastor serial can twist this kind of language into -- well, the stuff resulting in mug shots.
7
Sitting next to this guy on a plane is my worst nightmare. Maybe sitting next to Eli is, too. Chatty people, shhhh.
9
I love how Christians always assume it was some random negative experience that made us not believe as opposed to just say finding the whole story silly and nonsensical.
10
@7: No, chatty people are awesome on frightening flights, like flying out of JFK and shooting up and up and up and up into the air over the Atlantic, looking down and only seeing the sandy rump of Long Island and a bunch of whales slowly milling about offshore before doing some weird pinwheel maneuver and heading back inland high enough that you're sure you're about to slam into the side of a satellite.
No, please, chatty people, talk to me, I really really really would enjoy the distraction.
No, please, chatty people, talk to me, I really really really would enjoy the distraction.
11
You make a good point, Giffy. I know that is one of the first thoughts that comes to mind, when I'm met with hostility from an unbeliever. I'm guessing it's my poverty that I suppose that the hostility originates from a point of anger. Or, perhaps it's my person that pisses them off, and I'm deluding myself? Anything is possible.
13
True story---on a flight to Chicago to take a licensing exam. Charts, files, books, what-have-you strewn across my lap. The chatty little old lady next to me comments on my work; I agree that I am working. She asks me what I'm doing in Chicago; I excuse myself from further chat, saying that I am preparing on the plane for work I'll be doing there.
She is silent for a moment and then counters with: "You know, my husband was dead for two weeks and I didn't know it."
At this moment I knew I had been bested---whether I wanted to be or not, I was her helpless conversation prey.
She is silent for a moment and then counters with: "You know, my husband was dead for two weeks and I didn't know it."
At this moment I knew I had been bested---whether I wanted to be or not, I was her helpless conversation prey.
16
I got stuck next to a very polite, seemingly-rational (at first) biblical literalist on a short hop from Spokane to Seattle last year. I asked him which version of the Bible he read, and he replied that he only read the King James version. Since he was polite, I didn't mention that that version is considered to be riddled with mistranslations.
I did, however, explain that as a Spanish-English translator and interpreter I was acutely aware of how difficult it can be to translate a phrase that is embedded in the language and customs of one culture into another, and I asked him how he could be sure the King James version was the literal word of god when it had been translated several times, across several centuries, and several different languages.
His reply? "I have faith."
Can't argue with that logic, but I'm with Rob: I think I'd rather take the snakes.
I did, however, explain that as a Spanish-English translator and interpreter I was acutely aware of how difficult it can be to translate a phrase that is embedded in the language and customs of one culture into another, and I asked him how he could be sure the King James version was the literal word of god when it had been translated several times, across several centuries, and several different languages.
His reply? "I have faith."
Can't argue with that logic, but I'm with Rob: I think I'd rather take the snakes.
17
Is he disingenuous or naive about the extent to which prominent christians "respond in a negative way" to homosexuals?
18
Attiude Devant, my fellow dancer, there are some on Slog that I piss off on a regular basis, much to my regret.
20
actually, all things considered, he seems like a damned decent guy. I wish all Christians were that loving.
21
Baconcat - I only talk to other plane passengers when the trip is rough. I'll even hold hands with an especially nervous person [I actually did this on a turbo prop commuter in a thunderstorm] - but if the flight is normal and the flying is clear, I shut up. And I expect my neighbors to have the courtesy to do the same.
22
@RDM: probably naive couched in a culture which makes the nicest of them think horrible things about who people are. Then again, I think horrible things about everyone :\
@Root: yeah - he may have some wacky, stupid and unintelligible things going on in his beliefs, but I fully expected the reply to be some sort of gutteral warcry.
@Root: yeah - he may have some wacky, stupid and unintelligible things going on in his beliefs, but I fully expected the reply to be some sort of gutteral warcry.
23
@21 - hear hear. Or at least, please have the awareness to register that headphones + pillow + putting your jacket over you like a blanket + dark glasses = doesn't want to chat.
24
News flash: the whole "Let's make fun of the silly, silly Christians, ha ha ha" thing is getting pretty freakin' old.
28
@26: while I don't entirely disagree with you, if you're coming to Slog for maturity and the ability to stop beating dead horses, you are always in the wrong place.
29
@26 -- you know, if they didn't have their finger in every little thing (pun intended), it would be boring and immature.
However, too many of them whine and complain like babies so it seems about right to me.....
However, too many of them whine and complain like babies so it seems about right to me.....
31
@ 29 - The way to react to that is with righteous anger, not snark.
If you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that we got them beat ten ways from Sunday in the whining and complaining department.
If you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that we got them beat ten ways from Sunday in the whining and complaining department.
34
See, this (plane trips with annoying/weird/self-righteous people) is why God made the iPod and Valium. Take a Valium and turn on your iPod, and the flight is painless!
Best flight I ever had was a JAM-packed to the gills plane trip from Orlando to Seattle (via the long route because of bad thunderstorms) - because the plane was packed with geeks coming back from Tech-Ed. Every one of us plugged in our iPods, got out our books or our electronic toys, and minded our own business. Quietest plane EVER. And that would have been a HORRIBLE flight if not for that, because it took forever. I slept the entire way, which was lovely.
Best flight I ever had was a JAM-packed to the gills plane trip from Orlando to Seattle (via the long route because of bad thunderstorms) - because the plane was packed with geeks coming back from Tech-Ed. Every one of us plugged in our iPods, got out our books or our electronic toys, and minded our own business. Quietest plane EVER. And that would have been a HORRIBLE flight if not for that, because it took forever. I slept the entire way, which was lovely.
35
@31 Nope, I don't agree that "we've got them beat"... Not at all. But it isn't a contest, is it?
And there's nothing wrong with being snarky about the people you don't like. Being snarky at your friends doesn't work......
And your suggestion about righteous anger: Isn't that what they are doing? I think so and I find it reaaaaaaalllly annoying , so no I won't do it.
Heading back up to my snarky post now...
And there's nothing wrong with being snarky about the people you don't like. Being snarky at your friends doesn't work......
And your suggestion about righteous anger: Isn't that what they are doing? I think so and I find it reaaaaaaalllly annoying , so no I won't do it.
Heading back up to my snarky post now...
36
This is a perfect example of why evangelical religious people are terrible people. Oh sure they "love you" and they want to buy you lunch and invite you to hang and are all warm and fuzzy....until it is abundantly clear that you're not going to buy into their crazy talk and drink the Kool Aid. Then it's hellfire and damnation and you become a "servant of the devil" or some crap. Then they try to fuck with you and work to take away your rights, beat you up, or kill you.
These people are among the worst kinds of human beings.
These people are among the worst kinds of human beings.
37
@ 13 is the story worth it? Would you mind telling us,am dying to know how can one own a dead husband and not be aware of that. Sorry for being so nosy, but I am just too curious.
***
Very bad homo,i second what Kim said, thank you for the compliment. Technically speaking.. for all the sh-t we take for you guys from the likes of Loveschild , and we do honestly fight for your rights ,you could have extended your courtesy and add:
"And the good Christian women we have here Slog are the best on the world- crazy, sexy, hot, nice ,absolutely perfect! To borrow from a Pastor David Kirby: if i wasn't gay I would think of them tonight in bed" :)
***
Very bad homo,i second what Kim said, thank you for the compliment. Technically speaking.. for all the sh-t we take for you guys from the likes of Loveschild , and we do honestly fight for your rights ,you could have extended your courtesy and add:
"And the good Christian women we have here Slog are the best on the world- crazy, sexy, hot, nice ,absolutely perfect! To borrow from a Pastor David Kirby: if i wasn't gay I would think of them tonight in bed" :)
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