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News & ArtsFriday, October 9, 2009
Politics I (Heart) Streetcar
Posted by Will Kelley-Kamp on Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:51 PM
If Seattle had built its first modern streetcar anywhere other than in Paul Allen's South Lake Union, streetcars might not have such a bad reputation.
I'm taken by the fact that both of the mayoral candidates, even transit-y Mike McGinn, are opposed to building a streetcar on First Aveneue. That streetcar line is often mentioned as part of any viaduct replacement option. But Joe Mallahan—who's against streetcars on principle—and McGinn don't include it in their viaduct plans.
Lots of cities are considering new streetcars. Sure, they cost a little more to build, but if you built them right, they can make for a snappy way to get around town.
There's one really good reason why Seattle built our first modern streetcar line in South Lake Union: It was largely paid for by a taxes on businesses in the neighborhood. It's not clear if that is something that can be done in other neighborhoods. The First Hill Streetcar is getting built, but that's because Sound Transit is paying for it (out of Seattle tax money).
Streetcars aren't getting much love during the campaign. Mallahan just doesn't like them, and McGinn is perhaps making a smart choice tactical choice by opposing the downtown line. Bad reputation or not, they're not worth abandoning.
3
I guess I agree with McGinn and Mallahan. First Ave is already a clusterfuck during rush hour. A streetcar on Second and Fourth would make a lot more sense; there's actually room for it.
4
Interesting points. I think it has more to do with the misallocation of resources - first, people remember that the Billionaires stole our trolley for their sculpture park, haven't replaced it yet, and then built one in an area without sufficient density to make it worthwhile.
Will it eventually become a great part of a streetcar line? Maybe. That area will eventually grow enough, and if we extend light rail, monorail, and streetcars more, it should do fairly well.
But right now it's like a thumb in our eye, reminding us they're trying to force us to pay for their other projects, the lower-speed lower-capacity Millionaire Mercer Mess fix and the lower-freight lower-capacity Billionaires Tunnel we thought we were voting down.
Come back in 2020 and ask the question again.
Will it eventually become a great part of a streetcar line? Maybe. That area will eventually grow enough, and if we extend light rail, monorail, and streetcars more, it should do fairly well.
But right now it's like a thumb in our eye, reminding us they're trying to force us to pay for their other projects, the lower-speed lower-capacity Millionaire Mercer Mess fix and the lower-freight lower-capacity Billionaires Tunnel we thought we were voting down.
Come back in 2020 and ask the question again.
5
@3 - as to room, that's the current buildings - should they actually complete all those planned buildings, it's possible 2nd and 4th will get really choked, cause rich people like to drive their cars by themselves, and have their limos block the streets.
6
Neutral point of view toward the mayoral candidates? I was looking for Slog. Where the fuck is this?
7
@5, what? What the fuck? Are you under the impression that 2nd and 4th Avenues have no buildings on them now? Have you ever even been downtown?
8
It's possible to get from the International District to Lake Union in under 30 min. by using the bus tunnel and street car. It's kinda fun, actually.
9
I'm opposed to street cars too. What we need is an elevated train running on a single rail that would rise above all the traffic. Something that would ONLY stop at designate stops. If only we could think of what we could call it. If only we could build something like that in the 21st century.
Maybe someday. Maybe in time for Captian Kirk's graduation or more likely in time for Captian Picard's retirement party. Someday......
Maybe someday. Maybe in time for Captian Kirk's graduation or more likely in time for Captian Picard's retirement party. Someday......
10
Did you just say "snappy" way to get around? Try the slowest way out of all options.
I love that streetcars can be fun, carless ways to get around, but generally, they are only charming when one is on vacation or otherwise have zero time constraints. A good use of a streetcar might be getting home after a night out on the town, but that's about all.
They're quaint, slow and emissions-free. Otherwise, they're mostly useless.
I love that streetcars can be fun, carless ways to get around, but generally, they are only charming when one is on vacation or otherwise have zero time constraints. A good use of a streetcar might be getting home after a night out on the town, but that's about all.
They're quaint, slow and emissions-free. Otherwise, they're mostly useless.
12
Where can one find an updated map of current street car projects and others that are already in the works?
This is best I've been able to find:
http://www.seattlestreetcar.org/img/Stre…
This is best I've been able to find:
http://www.seattlestreetcar.org/img/Stre…
13
@ 10 That totally depends on the implementation. When I lived in Heidelberg Germany the Strassebahn (Streetcars) were fast and reliable, which was important b/c they were my sole mode of transportation.
15
@7 - Fnarf, you really need to show up for the zoning meetings where they set the cap levels for building heights, and pay attention to the nice 3x5 boards that show development plans.
Yes, what I said.
And we were off to such a nice balanced start ...
Yes, what I said.
And we were off to such a nice balanced start ...
16
Streetcars are essentially light rail without their own roads. If you go to downtown Portland, you'll have trouble telling the streetcars apart from the street-bound light rail.
SDOT has a planned streetcar network that was approved by the Seattle City Council (minus Rasmussen and outgoing McIver; Licata opposes it but voted for it in exchange for including an obstructionist amendment).
There are three new lines (not including the BUTT) that can be built in 1-3 years, as opposed to 10-20 years for new light rail lines. We just need advocates on the city council and a friendly Mayor McGinn on board.
Streetcar network map: http://www.cityofseattle.net/transportat…
* First Ave through Belltown to lower Queen Anne (FABQueen)
* Extend the SLUT to Ballard (SLUT B)
* Eastlake to University District (name pending)
We need to get the city council on board (especially Licata if he's re-elected), and get Mike McGinn 100% on board (and make sure he's elected).
SDOT has a planned streetcar network that was approved by the Seattle City Council (minus Rasmussen and outgoing McIver; Licata opposes it but voted for it in exchange for including an obstructionist amendment).
There are three new lines (not including the BUTT) that can be built in 1-3 years, as opposed to 10-20 years for new light rail lines. We just need advocates on the city council and a friendly Mayor McGinn on board.
Streetcar network map: http://www.cityofseattle.net/transportat…
* First Ave through Belltown to lower Queen Anne (FABQueen)
* Extend the SLUT to Ballard (SLUT B)
* Eastlake to University District (name pending)
We need to get the city council on board (especially Licata if he's re-elected), and get Mike McGinn 100% on board (and make sure he's elected).
17
The capital cost of the SLUT came mostly from business taxes, but the operating costs come out of Metro's budget -- dollars that would otherwise have gone towards other north end service hours.
19
Forget streetcars. When McGinn is elected, his director of aviation Cary Moon will be providing us all with Flex-Gyrocopters. We will spit upon the evil billionaires sitting stuck in their evil Hondas.
23
Not supporting a 1st Avenue Streetcar does not necessarily equal being anti-streetcar. Nor does it mean not supporting a streetcar as part of a revitalized Waterfront.
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