Find Your Valentine
Slog
News & ArtsMonday, October 12, 2009
Politics / Homo You Can't Criticize If You Don't Get Involved, Part 36,798
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM
Meighan Doherty, one of the organizers of the march and much-panned rally here in Seattle (NOT THE D.C. March, people), responds to complaints...
This was a learning experience for everyone involved, as are all large projects like this, and despite opposition, challenges and lots of daunting work, everyone pulled their weight and made a valid and necessary contribution. I have been working with at-risk LGBT youth since I was 16 years old and I have never seen a more mature, accountable and positive group of young people. If anyone has a big problem with it then I echo the comment above: either join in the fight or create your own groups but don't knock the work of these people if you have no idea what went into putting this weekend together. I am proud to have been a part of this and I hope regardless of your personal opinion we all remember that there is a lot at stage with Referendum 71 and we ALL need to get involved.
First, props to the folks who organized a weekend's worth of activities. I know what goes into organizing events like these, and what those meetings can be like, and it's a lot of hard work.
But you still gotta take your lumps, hard work or no hard work, mature and accountable or infantile and unaccountable. When you plan a political rally and march and ask people who aren't involved in the planning to attend—when the success of your march and rally hinges on the attendance of folks who weren't involved in its planning—you have to be ready to take responsibility for the way the event came off. Sorry, but you can't hide behind the hard work you did behind the scenes and demand immunity from criticism. That's not the way it works.
Yes, people should get involved. And people do. But for some people showing up at a demonstration is as involved as they're willing to get or able to get at this time in their lives. If you hold these people in contempt—if your rally demonstrates that you're contemptuous of their time and your reaction to their criticisms demonstrates that you hold their feedback in contempt—don't be surprised if they don't show up at your next march or rally or demonstration. And you need them to show up. You can't claim to be leading a movement if no one is following. It's not good enough to say, essentially, that you can't criticize if you don't get involved. You want them to get involved, you need them to get involved, you needed the people who showed up on Sunday to stay involved. So their criticisms matter. You should be anxious to hear them and take action on them.
Around 3 PM on Sunday I was walking down 15th—I couldn't make the rally because I was with child—and I noticed about a dozen people walking south on 15th away from Volunteer Park carrying R-71 signs. I thought that was odd. The rally couldn't be over already, could it? Now I know that those were people leaving early, people who had given up on the march because they had had it with the rally. Those people won't be back. Maybe you don't think you need them. But you do. And any movement that takes people who by their very presence at a rally demonstrate they're willing to become politically involved and drives them away in droves, well, that's not a recipe for success.
And, I'm sorry, but it sure doesn't sound like everyone involved "made a valid and necessary contribution." It sounds whoever was in charge of the rally, whoever picked the speakers and "entertainers," really blew the pooch. That's something to bear in mind as you move forward. At the very least whoever it was that put the rally together shouldn't be given that job again. That's accountability. And remember: it's activism, not the special olympics. Not everyone is entitled to a medal.
1
People who organize things like this don't grok modern FB times. Start the event with a quick welcome speech, give people useful things they can choose from and go do, and give people who want to stand around and listen to speeches for hours go off to do that.
Fewer speeches. More action. Doesn't matter what the action is - doorbell, FB events, direct phone of friends and relatives, whatever. But the speech stuff went out last millenia.
Fewer speeches. More action. Doesn't matter what the action is - doorbell, FB events, direct phone of friends and relatives, whatever. But the speech stuff went out last millenia.
2
In the other comments thread I saw that there were workshops. Really? Are we on the set of Higher Learning or 90210 ca. 1994? That word is anathema to getting things done.
3
Also, attending a rally counts as "Getting Involved" for God's sake.
If you want to be a leader, and someone criticizes you along these lines, just say, "Thank you for your passion," and then take their advice or don't.
If you want to be a leader, and someone criticizes you along these lines, just say, "Thank you for your passion," and then take their advice or don't.
4
And this is how it starts. Prop 8 failed in california because political groups who opposed it, didn't take enough time to organize events properly. They spent the bulk of their time emailing people (donors on their lists) and at the last minute asked for millions in donations for ad campaigns. No wonder we lost! If they had organized huge protests - like the one in L.A in February of 2003, protesting the Iraq war- more people would have been exposed. (That protest made the front page of the L.A times because they had over 300,000 people in the streets)
What groups in WA need to do, is learn from the mistakes of California. Organize more marches, talk to the would-be biggots of your community to change their mind! There's no sense in standing around talking poetry with a bunch of your friends! Get in the face of those who oppose you and you'll have a better shot at winning.
What groups in WA need to do, is learn from the mistakes of California. Organize more marches, talk to the would-be biggots of your community to change their mind! There's no sense in standing around talking poetry with a bunch of your friends! Get in the face of those who oppose you and you'll have a better shot at winning.
5
I didn't go to the match because I was phone banking for the approve 71 campaign. I called real votors with real ballots arriving in just a few days. It sounds like my time was better spent.
6
There was a lot of talk from the other post about the cops changing plans at the last minute. They're not allowed to do that.
If you had the permit for a certain time, for the whole street, you should have just started the march. And if the cops complained and started arresting people, wouldn't that have made a great story.
The crowd was dissatisfied at a poorly organized rally. Own up to it and admit you let down most of the supporters yesterday.
If you had the permit for a certain time, for the whole street, you should have just started the march. And if the cops complained and started arresting people, wouldn't that have made a great story.
The crowd was dissatisfied at a poorly organized rally. Own up to it and admit you let down most of the supporters yesterday.
7
I was immediately turned off by the the 16 or 17 people who kept trying to sell me the socialist paper. Seriously. No means no. Stop paper raping me.
8
When I was in college a group supposedly representing NORML held a "rally" in the central square on campus. It degenerated in a bunch of hippies drawing chalk pictures of bongs on the pavement. I remember being very pissed off and embarrassed because as a responsible pot smoker I knew damn well that these idiots were not helping my cause. This rally reminds me of that memory. Just my two cents.
10
generic activities with no focus don't make sense. at least get everyone attending to freaking sign up so you have your list, probably half of them aren't registered to vote. did anyone capture their names and e mails? what if the rally was really successful and drew 50 people from benton county? is anyone going to teach them to go contact their state legislator and tell her or him to get on board with marriage equality?
anything permanent built out of this?
and what the FUCK with an aimless rally on cap hill when as the commenter said you gotta make the phone bank phone calls to actually win the R 71 vote?
VOTING counts most then HOLDING ELECTEDS RESPONSIBLE then persuading people in benton and chehalis etc.
i think capitol hill is already persuaded, duh!
anything permanent built out of this?
and what the FUCK with an aimless rally on cap hill when as the commenter said you gotta make the phone bank phone calls to actually win the R 71 vote?
VOTING counts most then HOLDING ELECTEDS RESPONSIBLE then persuading people in benton and chehalis etc.
i think capitol hill is already persuaded, duh!
12
Meanwhile where were all you guys? Didn't see you in the African-American or Asian neighborhoods doorbelling ...
13
There are two valid reasons for making political speeches: 1) to help frame talking points on complex issues to focus what is said to those outside of the movement, and 2) to generate media soundbytes. Anything else is simple self-indulgence.
14
"it's activism, not the special olympics"
Too funny.
And come on, did this rally actually feature angst poems read by quavery voiced lesbians? Or is someone just exaggerating to make a point? Because that sounds more like a parody of a gay rights rally than an actual one.
Too funny.
And come on, did this rally actually feature angst poems read by quavery voiced lesbians? Or is someone just exaggerating to make a point? Because that sounds more like a parody of a gay rights rally than an actual one.
15
@14 Apparently she was trans, but yes, she read three poems, and I think the voice quavering was due to nerves more than emotion.
16
I was up in Maine working to support our marriage law. I certainly couldn't afford to take a weekend away to walk around on the national mall. Barney Frank was right.
17
FALLOPIAN FANDANGO
My woman self.
My womb. And self.
Stands here, trembling deprived.
Oppressed.
We must rise up
from our porch swings
our Michigan Womyn's Music Festivals
our Crochet for Kucinich rallies.
And change the world.
Women.
Our power is now.
Rise sister! Rise sister!
Thank you for listening to my angsty Lesbanian poem.
My woman self.
My womb. And self.
Stands here, trembling deprived.
Oppressed.
We must rise up
from our porch swings
our Michigan Womyn's Music Festivals
our Crochet for Kucinich rallies.
And change the world.
Women.
Our power is now.
Rise sister! Rise sister!
Thank you for listening to my angsty Lesbanian poem.
18
My family and I arrived at 10:45 to be on place for the march. We gave up around 1:00 p.m. when NOTHING was happening. My partner and have a three year old little girl...how much f***ing longer were we supposed to wait while our daughter grew visibly and verbally bored?
If it's true that the march was on hold until all the droopy lesbians could read their bad, angst filled poetry, I'm glad we left. I don't need empty Obama promises, and I don't need preachy dykes F***ing up my weekend.
If it's true that the march was on hold until all the droopy lesbians could read their bad, angst filled poetry, I'm glad we left. I don't need empty Obama promises, and I don't need preachy dykes F***ing up my weekend.
20
Absalom @18... are you talking about the Seattle rally yesterday? Even the rally didn't start till 2pm, and the march at about 3:30. We arrived at 3pm, and saw lots of people bailing before the 3:30pm march. When announcers said that "we'll be starting soon," it would have been rad if they would have said WHEN. I had no idea how long we were going to be waiting there, and when the girl said "third and final poem," I was seriously shocked. THREE poems??? I might've been one who left early if we'd gotten there at 2pm.
I'd like to add another complaint for the organizers... yes, the singer/songwriters and poets were off-message, but for fucks sake... someone should have done something about all the off-message signs, posters, and chants. Too many Mike McGinn and Dow Constantine that had NOTHING to do with Ref 71 or GLBTQ rights, and too many pro-immigration and pro-choice posters. Yes, people feel strongly about those issues, but we can't miss/mix-up the message when the message (APPROVE REF 71 ON YOUR BALLOT THIS MONTH!) is absolutely time-critical!
I'd like to add another complaint for the organizers... yes, the singer/songwriters and poets were off-message, but for fucks sake... someone should have done something about all the off-message signs, posters, and chants. Too many Mike McGinn and Dow Constantine that had NOTHING to do with Ref 71 or GLBTQ rights, and too many pro-immigration and pro-choice posters. Yes, people feel strongly about those issues, but we can't miss/mix-up the message when the message (APPROVE REF 71 ON YOUR BALLOT THIS MONTH!) is absolutely time-critical!
21
PECKER PECCADILLO
My manly self.
Muh Dik. And self.
Sits there, trembling deprived.
Oppressed.
It must rise up
from where it swings
where did I leave the damn Viagra?
my Crotch, smelling like cornchips, really.
And change muy shorts.
Muy Dik.
Our power is now.
Rise muy Dik! Rise muy Dik!
My manly self.
Muh Dik. And self.
Sits there, trembling deprived.
Oppressed.
It must rise up
from where it swings
where did I leave the damn Viagra?
my Crotch, smelling like cornchips, really.
And change muy shorts.
Muy Dik.
Our power is now.
Rise muy Dik! Rise muy Dik!
22
Dan, instead of bitching about the rally, why not use the platform and following you enjoy to take every possible opportunity, every breath and waking moment to tell people to GIVE MONEY to the cause and VOTE TO APPROVE R-71. If it doesn't pass, the 15 minutes or whatever time you took to write this were not well-spent.
23
Dude, if you're such an expert then why didn't you step up and put your weight behind this? You're coming off as an old man thinking about "the good ole days of gay rights"
24
This is seriously my first time to this website and I'll make it a point to be my last. Our younger generation is so turned off by old gays sitting and bitching and acting like they're better. Get over it. This was all organized by blogs and pop-up websites. Sorry it's hard for you to surf the internet, but there were still 250,000 people who loved the march and what it stood for. I'm included. I've never done anything like this before and you're trying to make me and thousands of others feel bad. Fuck you.
25
The fact that young people were at the forefront of planning this event is great news, but it also carried with it a double-edged sword. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. It's certainly no big news to anyone that from about age 12 to somewhere around 25 the world just simply revolves around you, plain and simple. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with it, it's the great thing about being young. The problem is that when you organize a march in which all age groups are asked to participate (from the very young to the quite old) you had better well make sure you have some grown ups on site to see to it that the focus is on the community as a whole as opposed to me me me.
I know we're old and we lack vision but the truth is some of us remember when marching and showing up meant something. You were bearing witness by your presence to the cause and sometimes that carried with it personal risk as well. It was serious business but there was also high-spirited joy (think Mahalia Jackson at the 1963 March on Washington). The "I Have A Dream" speech was not a rehash of the Martin Luther King Story, it was a vision for the nation at large. I realize that speechifying is part of deal with these things and I don't go expecting to hear the next Martin Luther King. But I also don't go expecting a Winona Ryder performance either ("Heathers", "Beetlejuice", "Girl, Interrupted" - take your pick).
Remember, it's not just about you. Make that your mantra for your next event (oh, and no poetry either, Robert Frost is dead and Maya Angelou is probably out of your reach, so just skip it, okay?).
I know we're old and we lack vision but the truth is some of us remember when marching and showing up meant something. You were bearing witness by your presence to the cause and sometimes that carried with it personal risk as well. It was serious business but there was also high-spirited joy (think Mahalia Jackson at the 1963 March on Washington). The "I Have A Dream" speech was not a rehash of the Martin Luther King Story, it was a vision for the nation at large. I realize that speechifying is part of deal with these things and I don't go expecting to hear the next Martin Luther King. But I also don't go expecting a Winona Ryder performance either ("Heathers", "Beetlejuice", "Girl, Interrupted" - take your pick).
Remember, it's not just about you. Make that your mantra for your next event (oh, and no poetry either, Robert Frost is dead and Maya Angelou is probably out of your reach, so just skip it, okay?).
26
Poor Billion. I think she was confusing the Seattle march with the DC march. Young people do things like that sometimes.
27
So young billion why ever learn anything? Anything you learn is from something or someone OLD. The generation you are chiding built the platforms you are now dancing on. You are surely shaking the foundation which your life is built upon. Be careful what you wish for or work with others and quit being ageist. Turn down the iPod, turn off the iPhone and listen...listen to real living people.
28
If we don't watch out, the other side will figure out how to weaponize delays and angsty poetry and kill all our protests before they begin.
I wonder if there's a similar device we can use against them.
I wonder if there's a similar device we can use against them.
29
#5 - you sound so dumbly smuger than thou - 500 people carried Approve Ref: 71 sings in the march, I helped pass them out....could have used another 100... they were passed out at the beginning of the march by organizers, delivered by SGN - all over TV, news pix.... take a look.
THAT is damn fine get out the vote. In your base, when that is the task.... to get those ballots returned.
Oh, I know it is fun to be so smug. Get over it. ALL efforts are important to get out the vote.... yours phone banking and carrying sing viewed by many thousands on TV - called again, FREE MEDIA, highly needed in any campaign.
Now, get on the clue bus and you will be forgiven.
THAT is damn fine get out the vote. In your base, when that is the task.... to get those ballots returned.
Oh, I know it is fun to be so smug. Get over it. ALL efforts are important to get out the vote.... yours phone banking and carrying sing viewed by many thousands on TV - called again, FREE MEDIA, highly needed in any campaign.
Now, get on the clue bus and you will be forgiven.
30
I'm glad to see so many sloggers responding as they have. And before anyone else gets down on young people, I'm 24 years old and I know better than to think much good came out of the angsty poetry. I hope everyone knows the Approve 71 campaign wasn't involved in planning this weekend's events in Seattle because they know there're better ways for them to spend their resources.
As predicted, the rally turned into all of nothing because that's what rallies typically do. Nothing. As a community, we MUST start being smarter in the way we use our limited time and resources, rather than burning energy doing feel-good events that give people an excuse not to spend time doing the actual hard work - contacting voters - that it takes to WIN.
Being an activist isn't about doing what's fun... it's about doing what's effective. The more we can internalize that message in our community, the better off we'll all be.
As predicted, the rally turned into all of nothing because that's what rallies typically do. Nothing. As a community, we MUST start being smarter in the way we use our limited time and resources, rather than burning energy doing feel-good events that give people an excuse not to spend time doing the actual hard work - contacting voters - that it takes to WIN.
Being an activist isn't about doing what's fun... it's about doing what's effective. The more we can internalize that message in our community, the better off we'll all be.
31
@ 20, I actually didn't mind the candidates being represented there. I thought it was good for them or their campaigns to show the support for our cause and I thought it was nice that Mike McGinn was working the crowd because I actually got to discuss some things with him. That said, I do agree about the other issues cluttering up our cause. It takes people off message with the socialist, pro choice, healthcare, etc signs.
@ 24, there is a preview comment phase before you actually post, maybe you should have read what you wrote at that point to see how stupid and ignorant you sounded. You don't even know what march this thread is talking about...unless you are really that dense to think there were 250,000 people at the Seattle rally. If you are talking about the DC march, it was organized by Cleve Jones, an "old gay" who worked with Harvey milk and started the AIDS quilt.
@ 24, there is a preview comment phase before you actually post, maybe you should have read what you wrote at that point to see how stupid and ignorant you sounded. You don't even know what march this thread is talking about...unless you are really that dense to think there were 250,000 people at the Seattle rally. If you are talking about the DC march, it was organized by Cleve Jones, an "old gay" who worked with Harvey milk and started the AIDS quilt.
32
@31 Not sure what you are talking about. Socialists cluttering up the cause? Since it was organized by the local socialists organization. Approve Ref. 71 and others had nothing to do with this rally. It was thier platform to talk about whatever. If you want to organize your own rally that is exclusively about gay rights and Approve Ref. 71, more power to you.
33
@ 32, I didn't know SEATTLE OUT PROTEST was the local socialist organization. I don't see it on their website. I see a few sponsors on the poster are socialist organizations but it is a coalition of several sponsors and doesn't say anything about it being a socialist party rally & march. Maybe that is why more elected officials were apprehensive about speaking. The headline is Seattle LGBT Equality Weekend and below it says Sunday rally/march. Why am I not supposed to think it was exclusively about gay rights by that?
34
The Freedom Socialist Party ran the pride parade for decades, based mostly on the ability of a very large woman on the organizing committee who could yell louder and longer than anyone else. Hence, they have sort of a sponsor emeritus status at any gay political event.
35
No elected officials - shit - Jamie Petersen has been un - elected ... god, how did that escape me.
Jamie spoke as a featured speaker and was cheered and well received, and seemed very happy to be there. Maybe the smartest of our political elected leaders? He focused on Ref: 71. Who would have been better? He sponsored the legislation in Olympia along with Ed.
Every speaker talked about Ref:71 - there were tons of home made signs about the campaign and printed signs carried deliberately by hundreds people marching, and you think the campaign had nothing to do with the event?
Oh, they didn't organize it. Well hate to tell you aside one meeting, and phone banking they have organized nothing else in the region..... apparently maxed out in some way. And, to be fair, raising money and making phone calls is tons of efforts.
I think a lot of the people here are professional complainers and love to whine. I wonder if they really do anything for the community except suck some dick when they can get it.
Oh, sorry, if you get some dick, you are an activist and of vital service to organizing in the community.
SUM TOTAL, please bother to vote. Your Civil Rights are on the ballot. And this march was a good message for tens of thousands about APPROVE REF: 71, (TV, radio, print, personal messages) free to the campaign, and keeping them.
VOTE VOTE VOTE - CARRY STAMPS FOR YOUR FRIENDS
Jamie spoke as a featured speaker and was cheered and well received, and seemed very happy to be there. Maybe the smartest of our political elected leaders? He focused on Ref: 71. Who would have been better? He sponsored the legislation in Olympia along with Ed.
Every speaker talked about Ref:71 - there were tons of home made signs about the campaign and printed signs carried deliberately by hundreds people marching, and you think the campaign had nothing to do with the event?
Oh, they didn't organize it. Well hate to tell you aside one meeting, and phone banking they have organized nothing else in the region..... apparently maxed out in some way. And, to be fair, raising money and making phone calls is tons of efforts.
I think a lot of the people here are professional complainers and love to whine. I wonder if they really do anything for the community except suck some dick when they can get it.
Oh, sorry, if you get some dick, you are an activist and of vital service to organizing in the community.
SUM TOTAL, please bother to vote. Your Civil Rights are on the ballot. And this march was a good message for tens of thousands about APPROVE REF: 71, (TV, radio, print, personal messages) free to the campaign, and keeping them.
VOTE VOTE VOTE - CARRY STAMPS FOR YOUR FRIENDS
36
@ 35, seems we read what you wan to. I didn't say there were no elected officials. Yes, there was one and he was the most effective speaker. I just said I know that others were apprehensive and if seattle out protest is a socialist organization maybe that is why. Who would be better than Jamie Pederson? How about Ed Murray? Maybe not better but how about any of the other sponsors of the legislation that I saw when the Governor signed the bill into law? How about the elected officials that spoke at the prop 8 rally & march?
There was nothing about ref 71 in those excruciating poems and songs. I hate to tell you, but they have done other stuff other than raising money and phone banking. Have you seen the new commercial running? There are many other grassroots efforts taking place all over the state which are offshoots of the ref 71 campaign. You may not hear about them because you are Sam stuck on the hill.
Oh, and yes, almost all my free time has been spent on the campaign in one way or another in the last 4 weeks, hardly anytime for doing my part for the community by getting some dick.
I do however agree with your SUM TOTAL
There was nothing about ref 71 in those excruciating poems and songs. I hate to tell you, but they have done other stuff other than raising money and phone banking. Have you seen the new commercial running? There are many other grassroots efforts taking place all over the state which are offshoots of the ref 71 campaign. You may not hear about them because you are Sam stuck on the hill.
Oh, and yes, almost all my free time has been spent on the campaign in one way or another in the last 4 weeks, hardly anytime for doing my part for the community by getting some dick.
I do however agree with your SUM TOTAL
37
Seattle's Oct. 11 march and rally supporting Ref. 71 was absolutely great with lottsa spirit. "We're here, we're queer, don't fuck with us" really sounded good echoing off the downtown buildings. Will this alienate voters? Maybe, but after four hundred years of mistreatment, a little anger is called for. Congratulations to those who organized it, especially the socialists many whom have been on the front lines for queer rights long before elected officials dared to take up the cause -- I'm a gay socialist (with a loud voice) and I know.
@34 Yes, the Freedom Socialist Party was involved in the gay pride marches from the very first. And we built a successful coalition with many groups who weren't socialists. Those early marches were spirited, celebratory, political and fun, just like Seattle OUT Protest's march. Queers are more than just queers -- some of us are reds too. So quit dismissing the good work that gets done just because a coalition has members who are socialists.
@34 Yes, the Freedom Socialist Party was involved in the gay pride marches from the very first. And we built a successful coalition with many groups who weren't socialists. Those early marches were spirited, celebratory, political and fun, just like Seattle OUT Protest's march. Queers are more than just queers -- some of us are reds too. So quit dismissing the good work that gets done just because a coalition has members who are socialists.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: Pill The Homos! by Dan Savage
-
The AP Is Reporting That Whitney Houston Is Dead by Paul Constant
-
Slog Bible Study: Deuteronomy 21:10-14 by Goldy
-
Because Guns Make Us Safer by Goldy
-
SL Letter of the Day: Daddy Loves Who? by Dan Savage
-
Gregoire: "This is signed!" by Eli Sanders
-
Gay Kids Are Still Killing Themselves by Dan Savage
-
Whitney Is Dead, And So Is Hollywood by Kelly O
-
Planned Parenthood Exposed! by David Schmader
-
Stranger Tournament of Dunces, Match 3: Rep. Mark Hargrove vs. Rep. Norma Smith by Eli Sanders
RSS
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (37) RSS