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News & ArtsSaturday, October 17, 2009
Politics What He Said
Posted by Dan Savage on Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 10:38 AM
Charles Blow in today's NYT:
When, Mr. President? When will your deeds catch up to your words? The people who worked tirelessly to get you elected are getting tired of waiting. According to a Gallup poll released on Wednesday, Americans’ satisfaction with the way things are going in the country has hit a six-month low, and those decreases were led, in both percentage and percentage-point decreases, by Democrats and independents, not by Republicans.The fierce urgency of now has melted into the maddening wait for whenever.
The president's popularity among Democrats and independents will rebound, of course, if he ultimately signs a comprehensive health care reform package that includes a public option and if he is ever seen doing anything—not just talking, but doing—about DADT, to take just two examples (both cited by Blow). All will be forgiven. But if the last 10 months are any indication about the next 38 are going to, well, it's going to be a roller coaster ride for the people who worked tirelessly to elect the president. Or, hey, who knows: maybe the people who elected the president will learn to relax and trust him—and take in stride his seemingly masochistic desire to reach out to people who pummel, betray, and insult him at every turn—if and when he begins to deliver on his agenda.
1
" people who pummel, betray, and insult him at every turn—"
hey Dan-
that's You!
they're talking about You on the Slog today!!
hey Dan-
that's You!
they're talking about You on the Slog today!!
2
whaaaa
We worked tirelessly to elect the president!
And have sat on our Asses bitching ever since;
and wonder why nothing has happened...
We worked tirelessly to elect the president!
And have sat on our Asses bitching ever since;
and wonder why nothing has happened...
3
But somehow you ignored this:
White House Issues Statement Supporting R71 in Washington, Opposing Q1 in Maine
http://www.gayapolis.com/news/artdisplay…
White House Issues Statement Supporting R71 in Washington, Opposing Q1 in Maine
http://www.gayapolis.com/news/artdisplay…
4
There was movement on DADT this week (not reported in Slog)...
"There were indications of seriousness of purpose on DADT repeal today by this White House with its intent to nominate an Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness. Dr. Stanley is likely to be the President’s key Pentagon player in the DADT debate and will be critical for the President in getting military uniform buy-in. Historically, the position of Under Secretary of Defense provides oversight of 'don’t ask, don’t tell.'”
-Kevin Nix, Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
"There were indications of seriousness of purpose on DADT repeal today by this White House with its intent to nominate an Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness. Dr. Stanley is likely to be the President’s key Pentagon player in the DADT debate and will be critical for the President in getting military uniform buy-in. Historically, the position of Under Secretary of Defense provides oversight of 'don’t ask, don’t tell.'”
-Kevin Nix, Servicemembers Legal Defense Network
5
Also, the fact that he's losing support with Democrats and Independents but not Republicans is not surprising. He can't lose support with a demographic where he has no support. And he had record levels of support overall. So the fact that he's losing some, and it's coming from those who support him is not surprising.
7
What is the fetishization over the public option? It's not even the most important part of the legislation. Would it be great to have? Yes. Is it the end all be all?
8
Obama is about to deliver big time on health care, and a public option may very well be a part of it. Obama and the health insurance industry are having a pretty nasty public break up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/us/pol…
We're not in the Clinton years. The tide has turned.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/18/us/pol…
We're not in the Clinton years. The tide has turned.
9
I'm pissed, too, but I have a hope. I suppose it's sort of like the kid who turns his hat inside-out when his home football team is down by two touchdowns with two minutes to go. Not likely, but they just might win...
Obama is saving his (dwindling) political capital to spend all at once. He doesn't want to risk losing any support on health care, so he does nothing else. As soon as that passes, he'll repeal DADT, introduce a plan to end DOMA, and close Gitmo in a week.
...and my hat's on inside-out.
Obama is saving his (dwindling) political capital to spend all at once. He doesn't want to risk losing any support on health care, so he does nothing else. As soon as that passes, he'll repeal DADT, introduce a plan to end DOMA, and close Gitmo in a week.
...and my hat's on inside-out.
10
I haven't lost my my hopey yet. Yes, I want him to honor his word, but I'd still vote the same today as I did last Novemember.
11
The "liberal" people who worked for Obama need to quit whining about his record. Obama's behavior before the election totally predicted this would happen. The NY Times wrote a front page article about it. The guy had political expediency written all over him before the election and liberals chose to ignore it or to slap the "divisive" label on Hillary.
12
He has delivered on his agenda, just not the single part of the agenda that you seem to care about, so you toss him out the window. You're a jerk, Dan.
13
I'm still hopeful... it's just that the health-care reform thing was promised (or something) in 1992, and the DADT thing was signed into law, by a Democratic candidate-&-then-President who talked a good game but who turned out to be a big weenis on those issues. So now I'm apprehensive as well.
Like Kim, I'd still vote for him today; but I'm worried, and I'm going to stay worried until a health-care reform law is enacted and DADT is dismantled. (I know, it could be awhile...)
Like Kim, I'd still vote for him today; but I'm worried, and I'm going to stay worried until a health-care reform law is enacted and DADT is dismantled. (I know, it could be awhile...)
14
Forget Government Option. Nonprofits like the Swiss have works for me.
I'd be happy with getting rid of DADTand following through with his promise to win in Afghanistan... hopefully the BBC leak is correct and there will be an announcement in the next couple of weeks of 45K more troops. Remember, this is the war Obama said we should have been fighting all along.
I'd be happy with getting rid of DADTand following through with his promise to win in Afghanistan... hopefully the BBC leak is correct and there will be an announcement in the next couple of weeks of 45K more troops. Remember, this is the war Obama said we should have been fighting all along.
15
Because McCain/Palin woulda been so much better. I love it when Savage over-reaches with political slogging. It reminds me of when my kids were toddlers and would play dress up with daddy's ties or mommy's high heels. Keep em coming Danny, it's my favorite part of Slog.
16
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17
I find the attitude of those who cry everytime someone criticizes Obama fascinating. Bottom line, Obama was handed a huge mandate and almost unlimited political capital. He has control of both houses, and a much larger Senate majority than his GOP predessors. Every poll shows overwhelming support ofr a public option. Remove the south from the polls, and you have a supermajority supporting a public option. But if you point out that he is not living up to his potential, you're a cry baby.
Add Aravosis of Americablog to the list of "whiners" who "never do anything but complain":
"If President Obama isn't willing to fight for what he reportedly considers the most important piece of legislation of his entire presidency, then what will he fight for? It's never going to change, folks. This is what the next three years are going to be like - always settling for less, when he could have had more, in order to avoid a fight. Democrats need to start demanding that this White House give Democrats just as much say in legislation as it always seems to give Republicans. "
Add the labor movement to your list of "whiners" who "sit on their ass bitching"
AFSCME's McEntee takes on W.H.
By: Ben Smith
October 17, 2009 05:33 AM EST
The president of one of America’s largest labor unions, Gerry McEntee, has emerged as a major obstacle to the White House’s efforts to maintain a unified front in the health care debate.
"We have had just about enough of his gratuitous slaps," said a senior White House official Friday, calling the politically charged language "outrageous and unacceptable" from an ally — even from one that had, the official noted, devoted substantial resources to health care efforts.
McEntee’s posture – and the fierce response from a White House determined to keep allies in line – reflects a broader dilemma on the left of the Democratic Party, which is feeling both lingering satisfaction at Obama’s victory and frustration at his caution.
Only 3 of 23 judicial confirmations have made it through the process, and he won't fight for that either.
So whatever you may think about the 'whiners', remember this: In 2012, people are not going to flood to the pols for someone they view as ineffectual, cowardly or inept. It doesn't matter if the perception is fair or not - If Obama doesn't aggressively fight for what he purportedly believes in, he will be a one term president.
More...
Add Aravosis of Americablog to the list of "whiners" who "never do anything but complain":
"If President Obama isn't willing to fight for what he reportedly considers the most important piece of legislation of his entire presidency, then what will he fight for? It's never going to change, folks. This is what the next three years are going to be like - always settling for less, when he could have had more, in order to avoid a fight. Democrats need to start demanding that this White House give Democrats just as much say in legislation as it always seems to give Republicans. "
Add the labor movement to your list of "whiners" who "sit on their ass bitching"
AFSCME's McEntee takes on W.H.
By: Ben Smith
October 17, 2009 05:33 AM EST
The president of one of America’s largest labor unions, Gerry McEntee, has emerged as a major obstacle to the White House’s efforts to maintain a unified front in the health care debate.
"We have had just about enough of his gratuitous slaps," said a senior White House official Friday, calling the politically charged language "outrageous and unacceptable" from an ally — even from one that had, the official noted, devoted substantial resources to health care efforts.
McEntee’s posture – and the fierce response from a White House determined to keep allies in line – reflects a broader dilemma on the left of the Democratic Party, which is feeling both lingering satisfaction at Obama’s victory and frustration at his caution.
Only 3 of 23 judicial confirmations have made it through the process, and he won't fight for that either.
So whatever you may think about the 'whiners', remember this: In 2012, people are not going to flood to the pols for someone they view as ineffectual, cowardly or inept. It doesn't matter if the perception is fair or not - If Obama doesn't aggressively fight for what he purportedly believes in, he will be a one term president.
18
What's going to happen is this: Obama will never get around to DOMA or DADT this term. He won't be re-elected and then the Republicans will return to power and we're fucked. You think Bush was bad? Hide and watch.
19
i worked hard to get him elected, i have a lot riding on him overturning some policies (a lot more than most people here) but i'm still with him. i think he's pretty savvy and there is a lot we don't see that goes on behind the scenes. he ran a very good campaign and kept it on message even when other people where urging him to switch it up. i think we as liberals need to do a lot more work ourselves and stop relying on a president to do it for us. we got him elected but its not over.
20
Obama isn't reaching out to the "people who pummel, betray, and insult him" - everyone knows the hardened conservatives are a lost cause.
He's reaching out to those in the middle. He needs those people, and like it or not, so do you.
He's reaching out to those in the middle. He needs those people, and like it or not, so do you.
21
@18 you know that's what they want you to think, right?
As Obama said, "I'm not tired, I'm refreshed. And I'm just getting started."
PHew. good to know.
As Obama said, "I'm not tired, I'm refreshed. And I'm just getting started."
PHew. good to know.
22
Obama will only sign a true health care reform bill if Congress gives it to him. He's not the one coming up with the bill. If it's not a good bill, blame the Dems in Congress, not him.
He's only been in office 8 months now. Do you think he needs a little more time to transform the country? The place has been pummelled by Republican-led Congresses off but mostly on for almost 40 years now.
DADT is not the most burning issue in this country. A bigger issue would be the seeming need to have a constant infusion of cannon fodder to go to Iraq, Afghanistan, and soon probably Iran. Soldiers who get kicked out for admitting they're gay at least aren't dying or incurring horrible brain damage in the desert.
We can't "win" in Afghanistan. There's nothing to win; the place is run by a few corrupt modernized politicians, many corrupt tribes, and the Taliban which gets its money by buying opium poppies from peasants.
He's only been in office 8 months now. Do you think he needs a little more time to transform the country? The place has been pummelled by Republican-led Congresses off but mostly on for almost 40 years now.
DADT is not the most burning issue in this country. A bigger issue would be the seeming need to have a constant infusion of cannon fodder to go to Iraq, Afghanistan, and soon probably Iran. Soldiers who get kicked out for admitting they're gay at least aren't dying or incurring horrible brain damage in the desert.
We can't "win" in Afghanistan. There's nothing to win; the place is run by a few corrupt modernized politicians, many corrupt tribes, and the Taliban which gets its money by buying opium poppies from peasants.
23
@22, Yeah, and everyone said that we couldn't win in Iraq, but Bush FINALLY decided to listen to his Generals and gave us enough troops and now look where we are at. No it's not a perfect situation, but I can tell you it is a much better place than when I got there in early spring 07.
Afghanistan will be a longer haul. It won't turn around as quickly as Iraq, but it can be done. The people there aren't subhuman, as much as you would like to believe they are. Given the time and opportunity, they WILL work to build a better life for themselves and their children. If only Obama decides to do the right thing and give them that time.
Afghanistan will be a longer haul. It won't turn around as quickly as Iraq, but it can be done. The people there aren't subhuman, as much as you would like to believe they are. Given the time and opportunity, they WILL work to build a better life for themselves and their children. If only Obama decides to do the right thing and give them that time.
24
Somehow it seems it is only ok to take bold, and to some, "radical" if you're a republican.
Obama and these democrats need to learn that no matter how liberal or moderate they are as politicians, the right is going to call them socialist, communist, extreme-leftist anyways. So they might as well push through a bold, progressive agenda. As brazenly as the Bush administration/republican congress did those 8 godawful years.
Why is it that these democrats in the highest ranks of government seem to be the last people on earth who realize that republicans consider them not just a rival party, but a cancer and enemy of America that needs to be forced out of government forever? You cannot reach out to people like this and why the fuck would you with a filibuster-proof senate majority? This shit is just unbelievable. Am I the only one who is suspicious? I wonder sometimes if these democrats are delaying/preventing progress on purpose because it seems so insane that they are not bringing about change that would make them very popular.
Obama and these democrats need to learn that no matter how liberal or moderate they are as politicians, the right is going to call them socialist, communist, extreme-leftist anyways. So they might as well push through a bold, progressive agenda. As brazenly as the Bush administration/republican congress did those 8 godawful years.
Why is it that these democrats in the highest ranks of government seem to be the last people on earth who realize that republicans consider them not just a rival party, but a cancer and enemy of America that needs to be forced out of government forever? You cannot reach out to people like this and why the fuck would you with a filibuster-proof senate majority? This shit is just unbelievable. Am I the only one who is suspicious? I wonder sometimes if these democrats are delaying/preventing progress on purpose because it seems so insane that they are not bringing about change that would make them very popular.
25
@24 First you make the false assumption that aside from campaigns there is any real difference between Republicans and Democrats when in reality, the difference is between Coke and Pepsi. Yeah, we each have our favorite, but it's still just a choice between two corn syrupy carbonated beverages.
Secondly, Bush only had both houses for 4 years, from 02-06.
Secondly, Bush only had both houses for 4 years, from 02-06.
27
@23 YOU are a fucking idiot.
on iraq:
you're a fucking idiot.
on afghanistan:
you're a fucking idiot and subhuman.
on iraq:
you're a fucking idiot.
on afghanistan:
you're a fucking idiot and subhuman.
28
It's all fine and good for everyone to be angry about former President Clinton signing DADT into law, but lets be clear about two things:
1. It was a small part of a general appropriations bill, not a bill designed to create DADT
2. The 103rd Congress had plenty of opportunities to amend the bill to exclude DADT, or not write it in to begin with.
That bill's sponsor, by the way, was Democratic Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums. Did anyone else we know pass that bill?
Aye WA-1 Cantwell, Maria [D]
Aye WA-2 Swift, Allan [D]
Aye WA-3 Unsoeld, Jolene [D]
Aye WA-4 Inslee, Jay [D]
Aye WA-6 Dicks, Norman [D]
Aye WA-7 McDermott, James [D]
No WA-8 Dunn, Jennifer [R]
Aye WA-9 Kreidler, Myron [D]
Wow. Well surely our then Senators stood against that bill!
Yea WA Murray, Patty [D]
Nay WA Gorton, T. [R]
Oh, well fuck. So both our current Senators voted yes for it.
BUT WAIT! There was an amendment to remove DADT from the bill and leave it to the discretion of the president! Who was that brave man? Why it was Rep. Marty Meehan of Massachusetts, who would later in 2005 introduce the Military Readiness Enhancement Act, to repeal DADT (it has been since reintroduced twice, and will likely be the bill that eventually does repeal DADT).
The amendment failed, obviously, by about 96 votes. How did we do?
Aye WA-1 Cantwell, Maria [D]
Aye WA-2 Swift, Allan [D]
Aye WA-3 Unsoeld, Jolene [D]
Aye WA-4 Inslee, Jay [D]
Aye WA-6 Dicks, Norman [D]
Aye WA-7 McDermott, James [D]
No WA-8 Dunn, Jennifer [R]
Aye WA-9 Kreidler, Myron [D]
Well, at least we tried to nip it in the bud, but failing that, it was an appropriations bill and we voted for it anyhow.
1. It was a small part of a general appropriations bill, not a bill designed to create DADT
2. The 103rd Congress had plenty of opportunities to amend the bill to exclude DADT, or not write it in to begin with.
That bill's sponsor, by the way, was Democratic Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums. Did anyone else we know pass that bill?
Aye WA-1 Cantwell, Maria [D]
Aye WA-2 Swift, Allan [D]
Aye WA-3 Unsoeld, Jolene [D]
Aye WA-4 Inslee, Jay [D]
Aye WA-6 Dicks, Norman [D]
Aye WA-7 McDermott, James [D]
No WA-8 Dunn, Jennifer [R]
Aye WA-9 Kreidler, Myron [D]
Wow. Well surely our then Senators stood against that bill!
Yea WA Murray, Patty [D]
Nay WA Gorton, T. [R]
Oh, well fuck. So both our current Senators voted yes for it.
BUT WAIT! There was an amendment to remove DADT from the bill and leave it to the discretion of the president! Who was that brave man? Why it was Rep. Marty Meehan of Massachusetts, who would later in 2005 introduce the Military Readiness Enhancement Act, to repeal DADT (it has been since reintroduced twice, and will likely be the bill that eventually does repeal DADT).
The amendment failed, obviously, by about 96 votes. How did we do?
Aye WA-1 Cantwell, Maria [D]
Aye WA-2 Swift, Allan [D]
Aye WA-3 Unsoeld, Jolene [D]
Aye WA-4 Inslee, Jay [D]
Aye WA-6 Dicks, Norman [D]
Aye WA-7 McDermott, James [D]
No WA-8 Dunn, Jennifer [R]
Aye WA-9 Kreidler, Myron [D]
Well, at least we tried to nip it in the bud, but failing that, it was an appropriations bill and we voted for it anyhow.
29
@27, how was I wrong? Do you really need me to go put up the list of all the politicians who were saying Iraq was in a civil war and that the US had already lost? That protested against the surge saying it was futile?
They were wrong. Dead wrong. Iraq is relatively calm these days, very calm for the US forces who almost never leave their FOBs. The ISF are growing into their role, perhaps not as fast as we would like, but they are moving that way. In almost just about every way you can look at it, Iraq is heck of alot better place now than in 06/07. Amazing considering we had already lost, na?
And on Afghanistan, do you really not remember how many times Obama used it as mirror to hold up to Iraq? Saying it was righteous war, and that Iraq had been a costly distraction? How many others parroted that line? And now that Iraq is winding down and out of the public eye, those some people are now turning on Afghanistan, using almost the exact same lines but with the addition of 'they are in Pakistan anyway.'
They were wrong. Dead wrong. Iraq is relatively calm these days, very calm for the US forces who almost never leave their FOBs. The ISF are growing into their role, perhaps not as fast as we would like, but they are moving that way. In almost just about every way you can look at it, Iraq is heck of alot better place now than in 06/07. Amazing considering we had already lost, na?
And on Afghanistan, do you really not remember how many times Obama used it as mirror to hold up to Iraq? Saying it was righteous war, and that Iraq had been a costly distraction? How many others parroted that line? And now that Iraq is winding down and out of the public eye, those some people are now turning on Afghanistan, using almost the exact same lines but with the addition of 'they are in Pakistan anyway.'
30
@24: Your point about the futility of bipartisanship is well-taken, but I think your underestimating the challenges posed by intra-party disagreement. For better or worse, congressional Democrats don't walk in thoughtless, robotic lock-step (like Republicans did when they were in charge). Democrats only have their majorities because they welcomed conservative "Blue Dogs" into the fold. Most of those conservatives squeaked-out victories in districts won by Bush and McCain. Do you think they should side with party leaders over the wishes of their own constituents? Should they betray their voters, assuring they aren't reelected? Do you want Republicans - who will never work with us under any circumstances - to take those seats?
I'm glad that - unlike the GOP - Democratic leaders don't insist on self-defeating purity.
I'm glad that - unlike the GOP - Democratic leaders don't insist on self-defeating purity.
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