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Monday, October 19, 2009

Savage Love Letter of the Day

Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:18 PM

I'm a 27 year-old man. Last winter, I was visiting with my best friend (Judy) who was also entertaining another friend of hers (Gloria). After an evening of drinks and conversation, Judy retired to bed and Gloria and I proceeded to have sex. It was a great night and, besides that, we got along handsomely and began a low-intensity, long-distance, non-exclusive relationship. We have seen each other about one out of every eight weekends since we met, with one of us flying two thousand miles to make it happen. I wouldn't say things were "serious" but we are very close, sexually and otherwise.

Needless to say, I was surprised last week when Judy, to whom I talk almost every night, mentions off-hand that Gloria is a part-time "Adult Service Technician" on Craigslist. This has upset me greatly. I like to think that I'm relatively licentious personally, and am a big believer in sex workers' rights and so forth. And, clearly, one of those rights should be some freedom from social ostracizing and the freedom to enter relationships with others. However, I also think the other people in those relationships have a right to know that their sex partners are sex workers. Shouldn't Gloria have told me? Moreover, shouldn't Judy, my best friend, have told me? Judy argues that this was Gloria's call, and besides, I'm being sex-negative by even suggesting that this would make a difference. Do I have a right to be angry, even if I probably wouldn't have done anything any differently if I had known? Is there some way to inform a friend that they're potentially sleeping with a prostitute without violating someone's privacy? I feel like both of these women have abused my trust.

Too Openminded Or Not Enough

My response after the jump...

Highly relevant information was withheld from you, TOONE, info that any reasonable person would expect you to take into account when making a decision about whether to form a romantic attachment. That you would have continued to see Gloria despite her sideline doesn't change the fact that Gloria and Judy actively withheld this relevant info from you. The withholding was the violation—of your trust and your friendship—not the sex work. So your anger is justified, TOONE, and can't be dismissed as "sex negativity." This isn't about prejudice against sex workers. Gloria has revealed herself to be less than trusting and less than trustworthy and your "best friend" has demonstrated that her first allegiance is to Gloria. Those are the issues, TOONE, and Judy's efforts to make this into a debate about your character reveals her to be manipulative on top untrustworthy.

For the record: I don't think Gloria had a duty to disclose the sex work sideline when you were just some one night-stand she met through a friend. When you fuck someone you just met you self-nominate as the kind of person who's willing to fuck someone he knows next to nothing about. If you don't want to accidentally fuck sex workers or MTFs or Republicans or Top Chef contestants, TOONE, take more time to vet your sex partners.

Like you, TOONE, I support the rights of sex workers. But you know what? I also believe that the sex partners of sex workers have rights too. Doing sex work places a person at greater risk of contracting a sexually transmitted infection; that means the sex partners of sex workers are at potentially greater risk. You had a right to make an informed decision about whether or not you want to enter into a relationship, exclusive or not, with a sex worker. And you weren't able to make an informed decision because, once again, that information was withheld.

To sum up: you're right, Judy's wrong, and now you get to make a decision about seeing someone who does sex work. There may be mitigating factors to take into consideration—did Gloria withhold the info out of fear? does she agree that it was wrong? is she doing sex work that doesn't put you at any risk, like domination?—but no one could fault you for dropping both these women.

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Comments (33) RSS

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sepiolida 1
Is this her primary source of income? If they've been seeing each other that long, they must have discussed what her job is, so either she lied to him about that or this is a side thing. Either way, I don't think she owes the person she sees once every 8 weeks for sex full disclosure, especially when they have an open relationship anyway (and he was perfectly fine with her being the type to sleep with a guy she just met...)
Posted by sepiolida on October 19, 2009 at 3:30 PM
2
began a low-intensity, long-distance, non-exclusive relationship.


Jesus Christ. What a whiner.
Posted by keshmeshi on October 19, 2009 at 3:43 PM
Mike in MO 3
the brightside is he is playa enough to score a bunch of freebies. don't look a gift whore-se in the mouth. yuk yuk
Posted by Mike in MO on October 19, 2009 at 3:45 PM
hartiepie 4
He didn't ask about her sexual history and now he feels betrayed?

@2 is right ----- whiner and I'll add immature.

And BTW: Thank goodness Dan went out of his way to be sure everybody knows he isn't against sex workers, 'cause who would have ever been able to guess he had such a position....
Posted by hartiepie on October 19, 2009 at 3:54 PM
T 5
Flying 2,000 miles every other month to see each other isn't exactly what I'd call "low-intensity." That's roughly from Seattle to Chicago, which would be like $350 roundtrip. The dude's well within his rights to be upset, but I think he's also downplaying this relationship a bit.
Posted by T on October 19, 2009 at 3:55 PM
Will in Seattle 6
I'm guessing he had some kind of fantasy that it was a Knocked Up kind of thing.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on October 19, 2009 at 3:56 PM
7
Agreed, @5. The moment he paid for a plane ticket just to come see her was the moment she should have disclosed her hobby or anything else out of the ordinary that might pop up in the future.
Posted by Disclosure on October 19, 2009 at 4:07 PM
8
I don't get it. I thought an Adult Service Technician on Craiglist is someone who goes through the Adult Service ads and moderates them by flagging inapprorpiate content and processing payments for ads.

is it actually a euphemism for sex work -- or is it part time tech work for a highly trafficked section of craigslist?
Posted by Finding a unique nickname on October 19, 2009 at 4:12 PM
9
Actually I think I'm with keshmeshi on this one. He agreed on a non-exclusive arrangement. Is he is upset by the number of her "outside" sexual encounters, or by their commercial status? If it's just the sheer volume of sexual encounters - I'd say that agreeing to a non-exclusive relationship without specifying limits means that he has no grounds for complaint. If it's the commercial nature of the encounters that upsets him, I think Judy is right and he's simply prejudiced against sex work, which kind of vindicates Gloria's decision not to tell him.
Posted by Aussie Steve on October 19, 2009 at 4:17 PM
Max Solomon 10
i presume you're a straight man, as you like to have sex with women. however, your "best friend" is a woman whom you're NOT sleeping with, but you "talk to almost every night", and who lives in another city?

is "judy" your sister? because otherwise something smells like bullshit.
Posted by Max Solomon on October 19, 2009 at 4:20 PM
11
Reverse the genders and decide: If this was a dude not disclosing a large number of outside sexual relationships (whether conducted for money or not,) would it be cool? Or would he be a low-down, lying snake?
Posted by Look Into His Eyes on October 19, 2009 at 4:24 PM
12
it's an interesting ethical conundrum. what if the girl wasn't a prostitute but just INCREDIBLY promiscuous? what if she had as many sex partners as a whore, but was not a professional sex worker -- i.e. an "amateur whore"? would she then have an obligation to tell the dude?

most people would probably say no - that's her private life, right? but if she's a sex worker she has an obligation?

interesting - i don't really know the answer here. does a professional whore have a higher obligation than an amateur whore? :)
Posted by pffft on October 19, 2009 at 4:40 PM
13
As a former sex worker, I disagree with Dan's advice here. Many sex workers are fairly open about what they do for a living. Others prefer to keep it quieter for social or career reasons.

TOONE has a right to pout for an hour, but not a right to be upset. In his own words, it's a "low-intensity, long-distance, non-exclusive relationship." Nothing was said about them limiting their sexual liaisons elsewhere in the name of minimizing health risks or enhancing the romance of their relationship or anything else. Had Gloria been out banging different guys without making money I fail to see how there's any issue at all going on.

Besides, Gloria is a sex worker on Craigslist, not a trafficked woman forced to work in a Bangladeshi brothel's "party room". As such, she is perfectly capable (assuming she is so inclined) of protecting her own health and that of her partners. Accidents happen, of course, but that has nothing to do with sex work. If TOONE wants to start ratcheting up his requirements in "non-exclusive relationships" then he needs to start screening his partners better.
Posted by Aaron Lawrence on October 19, 2009 at 4:44 PM
Will in Seattle 14
I think you have to bring that one up with the Guild, @12.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on October 19, 2009 at 4:44 PM
15
Dude, grow a spine. If you don't want to fuck a whore quit fucking a whore and stop caring about whether you are considered "cool" by your friend. If she thinks taking "public transportation" is sex positive then let her do it, you keep looking for non-profit pussy.
Posted by daniel2342343 on October 19, 2009 at 4:53 PM
16
@7: I wish my guy had disclosed his status when I visited him in Europe.
I heard inklings before I visited, called him out on it, but he downplayed it. Afterward he said he wanted to tell me but I "looked so peaceful sleeping there".
It would have hurt, but it would have hurt less than having to pull the actual truth from him when I got back home.
I still don't think he understood how much it hurt me for him to say, "none of your business".
Posted by Drew2u on October 19, 2009 at 5:11 PM
17
Whoa there, Dan, what's up with all the bold text in your response? Forget to close a bold tag?
Posted by James E on October 19, 2009 at 5:23 PM
kim in portland 18
I think he is whining a bit, too. The fact that he walked willingly into a non-exclusive relationships suggests that he is aware that he runs a risk of STI.
Posted by kim in portland on October 19, 2009 at 5:38 PM
julie russell 19
@18 agree..AND sex workers are generally less likely to have STI's than the general pop. Just read BROTHEL...women who sell sex have to stay super safe to stabilize their profitability
Posted by julie russell http://www.fabbseattle.org on October 19, 2009 at 6:06 PM
20
Ugh. "Proceeded to have sex". He sounds like a cop giving a statement to the press.
Posted by mint chocolate chip on October 19, 2009 at 6:11 PM
seandr 21
@9 and @13 nailed it.

The relationship is non-exclusive. They can both fuck whomever they want for whatever reason they want.

Any concern about STDs is a tangent. Not all sex workers have them, and avoiding sex work doesn't mean you won't get one. If you are concerned about STDs, you should ask about them directly, and the partner should respond truthfully.

This guy is entitled to his reaction, and I think it's understandable - even when a relationship is non-exclusive, if you start developing feelings for someone, it can be a bummer to learn the other person is fucking other people, whether for money or not. But he has not been wronged.
Posted by seandr on October 19, 2009 at 6:35 PM
22
I don't get how Judy mentions this info "off-hand" then says it's Gloria's call to reveal it. If she believes it was Gloria's call, how did it come out of her mouth so casually? And how do you get upset that somebody who sleeps with you the first night you met her probably has alot of sex?
Posted by natalie on October 19, 2009 at 6:42 PM
23
It seems to me that being a prostitute is a pretty big deal, something I would want to know about a fuck bud I had been with several times (flying 2000 miles...?!) . I have had my slutty periods, but I always wanted to know a few things about my fuck buds before we got nasty, piggie, and fluid exchangin'. What's their relationship status, what do they do for a living, are they easy to laugh with, is there something admirable about them, does their life make sense, do I generally trust them, or is my gut giving me mixed feelings? It seems like giving sex for money is big deal and a reasonable person would think it would affect someone's sexual relationship. Gloria should have told. TOONE should have asked. So move on. Sleeping with an arsonist is something I only did once.
Posted by Troyg on October 19, 2009 at 9:15 PM
24
Is it just me, or does the letter writer sound like someone who's really old? Something about the combination of words he used made him sound like he was about 65 rather than 27.
Posted by hlr on October 19, 2009 at 11:22 PM
25
@24 It's not just you, and I'm not even a native English speaker.
Posted by sadini on October 20, 2009 at 1:23 AM
26
The tone sounds like it belongs in a 1970s Playboy.
Posted by melbzig on October 20, 2009 at 6:30 AM
27
@10 How is it strange that his best friend is a woman he isn't sleeping with? You understand that dudes can be friends with girls without sleeping with them, don't you?
Posted by Lissla on October 20, 2009 at 7:12 AM
28
I call bullshit on this. If they are non exclusive, she can sleep with anyone and everyone. So what's the difference if they buy her dinner first, or through some cash on the night table when they leave. Who knows how many one night stands he has picked up.
Posted by Charm on October 20, 2009 at 7:41 AM
29
I am mystified - why would the friend have the exact same obligation as the sexual partner? I agree with Dan that Gloria erred in not disclosing this aspect of her life, but I agree with Judy that it wasn't her secret to tell. Drop "both these women"? Really?
Posted by InPhilly on October 20, 2009 at 9:54 AM
30
@23 "TOONE should have asked." Really?

Perhaps I've been trolling sheltered waters or sailing denile, but there are some things that should be disclosed before there is a reasonable chance of them being found out and without prompting.

If you're in a (supposedly) committed relationship, carrying an STD, not-tested, a fugitive, packing non-standard or incongruous equipment, campaigning against the activities or people you're propositioning, have a medical condition that may crop up, etc., you need to 'fess up, because these are things that are on the implied questionnaire, and not correcting the assumptions is dishonest.

Now, there is certainly something to the one night stand exception, but none of the items above, and some I probably forgot to add, are all things that should not be found out after the sex that may not have happened if all the facts were known and definitely not by any means other than one partner informing the other.

There is nothing wrong with stepping outside of the standard social conventions, but it isn't right to force someone out without their informed consent.

"Hey sexy... You're not an arsonist, are you?"
Posted by I _think_ I know you... on October 20, 2009 at 2:24 PM
31
I think a lot of people are missing out on what Dan actually said: the issue isn't that Gloria's a sex worker, or at a higher risk of STDs, or the number of partners she's had, or any of that. The issue is that she DIDN'T TELL TOONE that she was a sex worker. When the letter writer states that the relationship is low-intensity, non-exclusive and casual, I think he's referring to the sexual aspects of their relationship only. He specifically states that "I wouldn't say things were "serious" but we are very close, sexually and otherwise." They have no responsibility to be monogamous, but they're 'close' and fly (very) long distance to see each other every couple of months. A one-night stand might have no obligation to disclose, but once you become close, regular FBs who shell out big $ to fly thousands of miles, you disclose.

For me, finding out that someone I sleep with on a regular basis and regard as being 'close' to me emotionally works even part-time as a sex worker would anger me because withholding something relatively major (and yes, a second career as a sex worker counts as 'major') and would be a serious breach of trust. I've done the casual open relationship thing with someone I'm close to, but honesty was always of the utmost importance: I wanted to know what was going on in his sex life, and a lie of omission would have been just as serious as a straightforward lie. Of course, a lot depends on the rules for communication and boundaries they set up. (And if they never discussed guidelines, then TOONE is an idiot and has no right to complain.) Did they agree not to talk about other partners? That's the only other way Gloria's in the right.

Also, I'm with #8: is she even a sex worker??
Posted by Peri on October 22, 2009 at 8:34 AM
32
I have to side with #8 and #31 on the "is she even a sex worker" thing. True, this could be a new slang term I'm somehow missing, but it would be nice to have some clarification from TOONE.
Posted by RWgirl on November 1, 2009 at 5:16 AM
33
I'm with @2 and @9. It is a non-exclusive relationship, so they are both free to have sex as often as they like, with whomever they choose, for whatever reason motivates them. She was under no obligation to disclose until they mutually agreed to become monogamous. It's pretty clear that TOONE's problem is not that she has sex (or performs sex-related activities - she may not ever touch a single customer) with other people, but that she gets paid for it.
Posted by blankk on November 5, 2009 at 2:42 AM

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