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News & ArtsThursday, October 22, 2009
Politics Snowe Job
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Maine's Olympia Snowe won't support any health care bill that includes a public option. Can the White House pull its tongue out of her ass now?
1
Or can we finally have the Burris/Snowe cage match the American people have been clamoring for for so long?
2
There are good compromises and there are bad compromises. The bad compromises water things down to the point of ineffectiveness, or worse, amount to King Solomon's "split the baby in half." The good compromises manage to accomplish the pro side's goals while addressing the anti side's concerns--or at least the concerns that the anti side is (perhaps disingenuously) trying to appeal to.
For me, the good compromise on the public option is the opt-out or opt-in idea--provided that public option that states are opting into or out of is a real public option that has the leverage of being national. If the likes of Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson can't break a filibuster--can't let a bill be brought to a vote--for something that lets states control their own fate, then they deserve to be stripped of any of the perks of belonging to the Democratic caucus.
For me, the good compromise on the public option is the opt-out or opt-in idea--provided that public option that states are opting into or out of is a real public option that has the leverage of being national. If the likes of Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson can't break a filibuster--can't let a bill be brought to a vote--for something that lets states control their own fate, then they deserve to be stripped of any of the perks of belonging to the Democratic caucus.
4
We elected Democrats to do the job with or without Republicans. It's clear it must be without. Do the fucking job and pass public option!
6
Fifty-Two-Eighty: Do they even have the votes to get this passed with Snowe on-board? I think not.
There are 60 members of the Democratic caucus. They need 60 votes to break a filibuster and get this bill voted on. After that, they need 50 votes to get this passed.
I could swear coming across an interesting piece of info. Well, it's really interesting if it's accurate. It was that never in Senate history has a senator voted to filibuster their own party's bill. So if just one Democrat breaks rank and joins a Republican filibuster, it would be unprecedented.
There are 60 members of the Democratic caucus. They need 60 votes to break a filibuster and get this bill voted on. After that, they need 50 votes to get this passed.
I could swear coming across an interesting piece of info. Well, it's really interesting if it's accurate. It was that never in Senate history has a senator voted to filibuster their own party's bill. So if just one Democrat breaks rank and joins a Republican filibuster, it would be unprecedented.
7
It's a shame that you feel like you've got to be an armchair Senate parliamentarian to follow this debate. It's a shame there appears to be so much misinformation and distortion out there about Senate procedure. I've never been able to get a straight explanation as to the feasibility of reconciliation--which would need only 50 votes + the VP.
8
She doesn't support the "opt out" idea for a public option -- which is good; that idea is CRAP!
(Look how well letting douchbag Gov's "opt out" of the stimulus money worked!)
Give her a trigger --one that the Dems get to pull for once, I might add-- and then see what she has to say.
(Look how well letting douchbag Gov's "opt out" of the stimulus money worked!)
Give her a trigger --one that the Dems get to pull for once, I might add-- and then see what she has to say.
11
Leave the Republicans out of it-
they are irrelevant.
The Democrats don't have their own member's support, blaming the Republicans is just a ruse to avoid confronting that truth.
they are irrelevant.
The Democrats don't have their own member's support, blaming the Republicans is just a ruse to avoid confronting that truth.
12
Wow, so we are finally realizing we need to count votes in the Senate. As noted before, it takes an LBJ.
So...why no effort to mobilize grass roots in Maine, Arkansas, MT, etc.? To change those blue dogs and Snowe's electoral calculus? 52% in Maine support public option.
As for the 60 vote rule, well, it's the dumbasss Democrats that keep supporting it by not changing it every time the Senate is reconsituted every two years. "Change," what a joke.
Reconciliation doesn't really work it's supposed to be for budget things only so it's a pretty big expansion of that to use it for substantive changes like health care reform.
Better is holding the all night filibuster and MAKING THE GOP SHOW ITSELF ON TV AS PREVENTING A VOTE UP OR DOWN...once they back down, say after 3-4 days ...then we can pass the substantive pacakge with just 50 votes.
Obama and Dems also showed new fire in attacking insurers and a committee vote to end antitrust exemption, so that's part of it too, fucking go to war.
So...why no effort to mobilize grass roots in Maine, Arkansas, MT, etc.? To change those blue dogs and Snowe's electoral calculus? 52% in Maine support public option.
As for the 60 vote rule, well, it's the dumbasss Democrats that keep supporting it by not changing it every time the Senate is reconsituted every two years. "Change," what a joke.
Reconciliation doesn't really work it's supposed to be for budget things only so it's a pretty big expansion of that to use it for substantive changes like health care reform.
Better is holding the all night filibuster and MAKING THE GOP SHOW ITSELF ON TV AS PREVENTING A VOTE UP OR DOWN...once they back down, say after 3-4 days ...then we can pass the substantive pacakge with just 50 votes.
Obama and Dems also showed new fire in attacking insurers and a committee vote to end antitrust exemption, so that's part of it too, fucking go to war.
13
The D's should just propose an amendment to abolish Medicare (a/k/a socialized medicine) and make the Rs vote on it.
14
Let's face it, now that it's out of committee, Sen. Reid can do anything he wants with only 50 votes.
Yes, not 60, 50.
Once it's on the floor, from the Speaker, you can't hold it.
Yes, not 60, 50.
Once it's on the floor, from the Speaker, you can't hold it.
15
Snowe only voted for the Baucus version so that the primary bill would be a version with many poison pills(no public option, mandates for high premiums, taxes on union plans, more) for the majority of Democratic Senators and Representatives. Who knows if anything will pass?
16
Timrrr @8:
So Timrrr, please let us inside this great mind of yours and tell us what's so crappy about the opt-out idea. As a practical matter, very few states would opt out--a good thing--so the public option would have the kind of breadth and leverage it needs to be effective.
And why are you so quick to have Olympia Snowe tell American what is acceptable rather than the other way around?
She doesn't support the "opt out" idea for a public option -- which is good; that idea is CRAP!
So Timrrr, please let us inside this great mind of yours and tell us what's so crappy about the opt-out idea. As a practical matter, very few states would opt out--a good thing--so the public option would have the kind of breadth and leverage it needs to be effective.
And why are you so quick to have Olympia Snowe tell American what is acceptable rather than the other way around?
17
"Can the White House pull its tongue out of her ass now?"
A truer thought has never been expressed so eloquently.
A truer thought has never been expressed so eloquently.
18
I don't recall Olympia Snow being sworn in on a blustery January morning surrounded by millions of supporters. I don't recall her party being returned to power either. I'm not sure, but, I'm pretty sure Maine's population is lower than the fucking county I live in. And I'm pretty god-damned sure I don't care if she wan't a public option or not because she isn't in charge and never was.
19
Besides, those 40 senators only represent 10 percent of the US population anyway.
Kick em to the curb.
Kick em to the curb.
20
enough with the vague threats. force the filibuster. and fastidiously adhere to the rules. lets see those elderly grandees stand up all night and talk. they won't do it. they can't do it.
21
seriously. democrats are so spineless. the republicans would be shoving they're agenda through (they have) as fast as they fucking could, bipartisanship be damned. there's a lesson there, dems.
do it and take sole responsibility for it, for better or worse.
do it and take sole responsibility for it, for better or worse.
23
@17 — This may be a sign of the apocalypse, but SNL's TheRock Obama skit did a nice job too. Glad a coworker forced it on me.
"Put head in hand, I smash it now."
"Put head in hand, I smash it now."
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