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News & ArtsFriday, October 23, 2009
Chow Hey Cheapskate!
Posted by Bethany Jean Clement on Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:27 AM
- evil robot 6 / stranger flickr
From the Puget Sound Business Journal:
Zagat’s 2010 America’s Top Restaurants survey of 45 markets showed that Seattle was tied with Hawaii for the stingiest tippers, giving just 18.4 percent.
What's with you people? Saint Louis and Philadelphia tip better than you. At this point, 20 percent is the baseline. If you're tipping less than that for anything save abysmal service, you should just stay home.
Thanks to kid icarus.
1
Fuck you. Being poor needs to spread out. Plus, half the servers/bartenders in Seattle suck.
Still, I tip hard.
Still, I tip hard.
2
JUST 18.4%? umm, isn't a tip supposed to be 15-20%? how the hell much are we supposed to be tipping these days? more than 20%? fuck that.
4
I tip bartenders, waiters, and cabbies. Baristas, subway sandwich makers, etc can go fuck themselves.
5
Wait, what the fuck? TFA says the national average was 19.1%. Even St. Louis and Phillie, which were apparently the best, were at 19.6%.
Go fuck yourselves with your 20% baseline.
Go fuck yourselves with your 20% baseline.
6
No. I will and do tip what the service deems appropriate. Shitty service = shitty tip. Great service = great tip. Work for your f'ing money. I do.
7
And if their tips suck, they should get another job. Then, somebody who gives a fuck and is happy with an EASY minimum wage job can jump in there. Fuck that smarmy sense of entitlement.
8
Also, we are already paying 10% above the listed price for everything we're expected to tip on. I wonder how the map of sales taxes lines up with the map of tipping trends.
9
So the national average is 19.1% (up .1% from last year); tips in Philly and St Louis are 19.6%, and we're at 18.4%. I'm surprised the range is so small; dunno how they did the survey, but a lot of that variation could be within the margin of error. I'd think there would be some sort of regional variations in tipping rates, but there apparently really isn't.
10
tipping is for quality of service-and nothing else. if people aren't tipping big in seattle then perhaps they aren't getting good service. because let me tell you, some of the snarky, rude, omg like i'm so much cooler than you could ever be service that some people give in seattle - deserves no tip at all!!!
11
Servers in Seattle get paid more than most servers across the country because their tips do not compensate their base wage. And for the most part, they give sub par service and are lucky for the 15% I routinely tip them.
Also, why is everything a tipping profession now? I went through the DQ drive thru with my kids and my cc receipt had a tip line. Really?
Also, why is everything a tipping profession now? I went through the DQ drive thru with my kids and my cc receipt had a tip line. Really?
12
How is it that tip percentages keep ratcheting up? Are food and drink items going down in price so percentages go upward to compensate? I thought 15% was baseline for groups smaller than six, and 18%+ for larger groups. I bet food and drink in Philadelphia and Saint Louis are cheaper than in Seattle and Honolulu.
14
oh and anyone who puts out a tip jar with the word KARMA on it - automatically gets no tip as they obviously have no concept of what karma is.
15
most good restaurants have an auto-grat at 18% for large parties. so they are undertipping themselves for crap's sake.
fuck this article and another meaningless cheap shot at seattle. fuckers.
fuck this article and another meaningless cheap shot at seattle. fuckers.
17
The baseline is 15%. 20% is appropriate only for exceptional service. The study doesn't look at variations in quality of service by city, does it? Hmm.
18
Get angry at the employers who expect you to make up your pittance of a salary with a tip. Don't get all mad at the customers for paying what it says on the menu.
19
Yeah, BJC - 20% is NOT the baseline. its more like 15%. I do 20 normally because I tend to go to regular haunts and appreciate my familiar bartenders/servers, but generally, how much do we have to fawn over servers to make sure they approve of our presence? 25-30% ? I agree that those who do not tip should pop a pizza in the oven, but don't preach over tipping especially when no one has a job.
20
How do these other regions' sales taxes compare to Seattle's? When you're paying 10% sales tax on a meal already, tipping 20% can't be considered automatic.
21
Severs in Seattle need to wake-up to the fact that a tip is earned and I don't think "absymal service" should be the threshold on which we base the tipping percentages
I dine out 2 or 3 times a week and over the last few years I have found the level of service in Seattle restaurants to be sliding, considerably. I am not saying that service has become "abysmal" across the board but standards have slipped and what passes as acceptable service would never have gelled a few years ago. I have noticed this trend in casual and fine dining establishments and I can only assume that the slip in service standards is tied into the sense of entitlement engendered by postings like this and our society in general.
That being said I usually tip 20% because it's just easier to double the tax but if service is poor, mediocre, or lazy I have no trouble dropping that and telling the manager about the poor service. Tips are earned, if you provide good service you get a good tip, if you provide middling or bad service you get a middling or bad tip. End of story.
I dine out 2 or 3 times a week and over the last few years I have found the level of service in Seattle restaurants to be sliding, considerably. I am not saying that service has become "abysmal" across the board but standards have slipped and what passes as acceptable service would never have gelled a few years ago. I have noticed this trend in casual and fine dining establishments and I can only assume that the slip in service standards is tied into the sense of entitlement engendered by postings like this and our society in general.
That being said I usually tip 20% because it's just easier to double the tax but if service is poor, mediocre, or lazy I have no trouble dropping that and telling the manager about the poor service. Tips are earned, if you provide good service you get a good tip, if you provide middling or bad service you get a middling or bad tip. End of story.
22
Liberal hipsters expect the government to take care of the 'little people'.
They are very generous- with Other People's money...
They are very generous- with Other People's money...
23
Washington requires paying full minimum wage for waiters ($8.55/hour), whereas most (all other?) states allow for a lower minimum wage ($2.13/hour). Hence, by virtue of being in Washington, Seattleite's are $6.42/hour more generous than other states. I imagine that more than makes up for the measly 1.2% difference between the most generous cities and Seattle. For that 1.2% difference to be more prominent, a waiter would have to push at least $535/hour of sales, which strikes me as rather high.
24
Stingy?
Tips used to be 10 percent.
They went up to 15 percent towards the end of the last century.
You have got to be kidding me. 18 percent is too much.
Tips used to be 10 percent.
They went up to 15 percent towards the end of the last century.
You have got to be kidding me. 18 percent is too much.
26
Bartenders don't deserve tips more than baristas do, especially if they're only pouring a beer, wine, or a shot. (Naturally that goes for baristas who are only giving you drip coffee.) If you tip one, tip the other.
And yes, past 20% is too high unless you've given me "release."
I can only imagine the poll reached these figures by discounting nontippers altogether. I've worked a few restaurants and coffee bars and never heard of tips being that high on average. Granted, I worked "family" places in more suburban settings, and people are definitely cheaper in the burbs. Did this study focus on downtown cores only?
And yes, past 20% is too high unless you've given me "release."
I can only imagine the poll reached these figures by discounting nontippers altogether. I've worked a few restaurants and coffee bars and never heard of tips being that high on average. Granted, I worked "family" places in more suburban settings, and people are definitely cheaper in the burbs. Did this study focus on downtown cores only?
27
I don't understand why we should pay servers in lieu of their employers. I get especially confused at owner operated places. If you want more money, raise your prices. Fuckers
28
I think it should be noted that the minimum wage in Seattle for a waiter or waitress is $8.07. WA is one of the few states that does not allow for waiters or waitresses to be paid less than minimum wage.
A quick look puts a waiters salary in Missouri at $3.62 (50% of minimum wage) and in Pennsylvania at $2.83 per hour if they make more than $30 in tips per week.
Plus, I assume in WA state, included in the price of food is the additional overhead to pay the wait staff more. So food is more expensive and when you tip you are also tipping on the cost of their salary.
A quick look puts a waiters salary in Missouri at $3.62 (50% of minimum wage) and in Pennsylvania at $2.83 per hour if they make more than $30 in tips per week.
Plus, I assume in WA state, included in the price of food is the additional overhead to pay the wait staff more. So food is more expensive and when you tip you are also tipping on the cost of their salary.
29
Will and 23 others are all bent out of shape over what, exactly? A quarter? On a $50 tab the difference between 18% and 20% is a whole freaking dollar. On your $10 lunch it's twenty motherfucking cents. Good god, wouldn't you important people to have to let go of THAT for anything less than a handjob and third cup of coffee. Yeah, bitch: WORK for those dimes I might or might not let you have if you're good to me.
Fucking a-holes. Put some fucking money on the table and walk away. You'll be happier.
For the record: I'm a thousand years old, eat out all the damn time, and I NEVER, ever, ever get bad service. I get good service when he cunts at the table next to me are getting treated like dirt, and deservedly so. And that's BEFORE I tip. Because I AM NOT AN ASSHOLE TO SERVICE PEOPLE.
Fucking a-holes. Put some fucking money on the table and walk away. You'll be happier.
For the record: I'm a thousand years old, eat out all the damn time, and I NEVER, ever, ever get bad service. I get good service when he cunts at the table next to me are getting treated like dirt, and deservedly so. And that's BEFORE I tip. Because I AM NOT AN ASSHOLE TO SERVICE PEOPLE.
30
I tip 20% generally, but only so I don't have to do hard math. I will tip less if the service isn't good, though.
In PA, servers are paid far under minimum wage - $2.83 an hour. In my current state of Louisiana it is even worse - $2.13 an hour. I agree that employers should be paying these people a fair wage, but if they aren't, I don't have a problem with making it up with tips.
In PA, servers are paid far under minimum wage - $2.83 an hour. In my current state of Louisiana it is even worse - $2.13 an hour. I agree that employers should be paying these people a fair wage, but if they aren't, I don't have a problem with making it up with tips.
32
I normally like your work, Bethany, but seriously -- fuck off.
There is a reason journalists should stay away from statistics and this is a glaring example -- for the reasons listed above, and several others: small sample size, biased sources, total dining amount, subgroups within the population (ie youre prob preaching to the choir -- tell it to the fuckwits from the burbs who tip 10% at the downtown chains and think they're leaving you a kings ransom), sales tax included in the base, and so on.
And yes the quality of service at so many places is off the charts horrible. There's a thread for you, Bethany: Who has the worst service among Cap Hill restaurants?
I'll start by nominating Broadway Grill -- in fact we should name the award in its honor.
Okay I'm done now.
There is a reason journalists should stay away from statistics and this is a glaring example -- for the reasons listed above, and several others: small sample size, biased sources, total dining amount, subgroups within the population (ie youre prob preaching to the choir -- tell it to the fuckwits from the burbs who tip 10% at the downtown chains and think they're leaving you a kings ransom), sales tax included in the base, and so on.
And yes the quality of service at so many places is off the charts horrible. There's a thread for you, Bethany: Who has the worst service among Cap Hill restaurants?
I'll start by nominating Broadway Grill -- in fact we should name the award in its honor.
Okay I'm done now.
35
@ 29, I don't know about others, but for me it's the increasing expectations that I give generously without any discernible improvement in service. I remember learning to tip 15% as a kid, and in recent years being told that that's stingy, tip 18%, and now all of a sudden I'm a cheapskate unless I'm tipping 20%??
Your post actually works against you in a way - a quarter here or a dollar there adds up. You've heard of nickle and diming I'm sure?
I don't begrudge servers, waiters, baristas and bartenders tips, but I do begrudge their ever-growing expectations. I'm always nice and I always tip (unless service is really, really bad, such as once in a restaurant when they not only forgot my daughter's order [always bad - always serve children first] but didn't even say sorry or express the least bit of regret), but like everyone else I'm getting squeezed on all sides. I resent the growing expectations that I give super generously which I view as undeserved.
Give to your heart's content, Fnarf, but NEVER fucking judge anyone for not doing as you do.
Your post actually works against you in a way - a quarter here or a dollar there adds up. You've heard of nickle and diming I'm sure?
I don't begrudge servers, waiters, baristas and bartenders tips, but I do begrudge their ever-growing expectations. I'm always nice and I always tip (unless service is really, really bad, such as once in a restaurant when they not only forgot my daughter's order [always bad - always serve children first] but didn't even say sorry or express the least bit of regret), but like everyone else I'm getting squeezed on all sides. I resent the growing expectations that I give super generously which I view as undeserved.
Give to your heart's content, Fnarf, but NEVER fucking judge anyone for not doing as you do.
36
The only thing worse than people asking tips are people whining about giving tips while complaining about all the bad service they get.
My hypothesis is that such people are jerks whose pompous, elitist attitude ("Work for your money. I do.") deserves poor service. If you meet three jerks in a day, you're the jerk.
My hypothesis is that such people are jerks whose pompous, elitist attitude ("Work for your money. I do.") deserves poor service. If you meet three jerks in a day, you're the jerk.
38
@ 29 "For the record: I'm a thousand years old, eat out all the damn time, and I NEVER, ever, ever get bad service."
I call major bullshit on that statement. It is not possible to dine out and "NEVER, ever, ever" receive less than good service unless one's standards of service levels are already so low that even the least attentive service qualifies as good. Feel free to flame on that but I too dine out all the time, treat servers as people and still occasionally encounter a server that seems troubled and annoyed by the fact that I am asking them what they like on the menu, for a glass of water, to bring the drink the forgot, or simply have been seated in their section.
Your point on quibbling over dimes is well made.
I call major bullshit on that statement. It is not possible to dine out and "NEVER, ever, ever" receive less than good service unless one's standards of service levels are already so low that even the least attentive service qualifies as good. Feel free to flame on that but I too dine out all the time, treat servers as people and still occasionally encounter a server that seems troubled and annoyed by the fact that I am asking them what they like on the menu, for a glass of water, to bring the drink the forgot, or simply have been seated in their section.
Your point on quibbling over dimes is well made.
39
Fnarf @ 29 is wrong. And stupid.
I get bad service all the time (probably because I look like a douche), but I tip pretty damned well. I do it because I am NICE AND DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT MY MONEY.
BUT, I do give a fuck when somebody complains about how much they AREN'T getting for service that is THEIR JOB!!! I was a bartender, I've seen and heard the other staff complaining about tips when I know that they suck.
AND, fnarf, just because you can afford that extra quarter or dollar 3 times a day, 7 days a week or whatever, that is not indicative of other people's ability to do the same.
Dick.
The argument boils down to... the server should do their fucking job and do it well without expecting ANY tip whilst the customer should enjoy their service and tip accordingly (based on the quality of service and ABILITY to tip).
I know I'm rambling and my comments are very disjointed. Fuck you, Gauss!
I get bad service all the time (probably because I look like a douche), but I tip pretty damned well. I do it because I am NICE AND DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT MY MONEY.
BUT, I do give a fuck when somebody complains about how much they AREN'T getting for service that is THEIR JOB!!! I was a bartender, I've seen and heard the other staff complaining about tips when I know that they suck.
AND, fnarf, just because you can afford that extra quarter or dollar 3 times a day, 7 days a week or whatever, that is not indicative of other people's ability to do the same.
Dick.
The argument boils down to... the server should do their fucking job and do it well without expecting ANY tip whilst the customer should enjoy their service and tip accordingly (based on the quality of service and ABILITY to tip).
I know I'm rambling and my comments are very disjointed. Fuck you, Gauss!
40
#29, you know, your entire first paragraph could be suitably directed towards servers with a sense of entitlement making $8/hr. "It's just a dollar". Very true, yet some of them bitch and bitch when you "undertip" their shit service.
41
And another thing: where's ECB when you need her? How much am I supposed to tip at a fucking food truck?
42
15% on pre-tax total, then round up based on service. if you ask me if i'm "still working on it", you get pre-tax 15% EXACTLY.
fuck you 20% baseline.
fuck you 20% baseline.
44
@29 and 40,
And it could be directed at the author of this post who's shaming a group of people for tipping 1.6 percent too "low."
And it could be directed at the author of this post who's shaming a group of people for tipping 1.6 percent too "low."
45
Survey says !
10% for ambivalent service
15% for good service
20% for great service
20% baseline? That is bullshit.
10% for ambivalent service
15% for good service
20% for great service
20% baseline? That is bullshit.
48
The tipping creep doesn't just apply to obvious things like food service. I was under the mistaken impression that tipping was mainly expected at restaurants/bars and hair salons, for cabs, and maybe a few other services. Of late, I've heard the outrageous claim that I'm supposed to give Christmas gifts to various people including my hairdresser and my doctor. Seriously, what the fuck? I'm supposed to give a Christmas gift to someone who earns 10 times my salary? Fuck whoever made up these rules. Fuck them hard.
49
this whole thing is stupid. tip fairly, whether that's 18 or 20 percent. if tipping that much is hard for you, then eat out less often. but yeah, servers get paid quite well in washington for a job that is not entirely that difficult. sure it is stressful, but most jobs come with stress. and considering the low level of education required for the job, the take home wage is actually quite high.
50
@ 46, what constitutes "great service" exactly? Do you try out new places a lot or do you just haunt a few places exclusively? Being a regular always gets you better service.
51
I don't have time to read the article, but I wonder about two things: What the relative sales tax is in the cities in the poll. Many people don't think to tip on the bill *before tax* which is actually what you are supposed to do, they tip on the bill after tax, which could incrementally drive up tipping rates in areas with high tax. Also, doubling the sales tax is a common math shortcut in all places, so a tax rate of 7.5% vs 9.5% could make a real difference.
Also, I wonder if they took into account tipping in bars, where the rate often far exceeds 20% (people routinely tip $1 for a $3 beer, for example).
Also, I wonder if they took into account tipping in bars, where the rate often far exceeds 20% (people routinely tip $1 for a $3 beer, for example).
52
also, you're old. speaking as a younger male, most servers ignore me entirely. maybe they expect me to tip poorly. apparently between 18 and 21 percent IS poorly, though, so maybe they're right. why can't our tips be included in the check like in europe? this system is clearly f'ed up.
53
If it's something that involves working, i.e., latte's, mochas, whatevs, yeah, I'll tip something, but pouring coffee into a cup for $2, no.
54
15% is still the baseline, usually rounded up to the nearest $1, $5 or $10 or whatever depending on the size of the bill.
Going much over 20% (except when rounding up by small amounts for convenience of making change or doing the math) is not necessary, and kind of weird. If you go over 25% you're hitting on your server in a potentially creepy way. Not that they will usually mind the money, but still, kind of creepy. Unless someone in your party is seriously too drunk, too loud, a toddler who throws things, or has fur and a tail. Then you need to aim for 25% or even more if you cost them money from other customers.
I never tip based on quality of service; mostly I go by whether our party was a big pain in the ass or a regular pain in the ass. If the service is bad, I tip the same and never come back.
Going much over 20% (except when rounding up by small amounts for convenience of making change or doing the math) is not necessary, and kind of weird. If you go over 25% you're hitting on your server in a potentially creepy way. Not that they will usually mind the money, but still, kind of creepy. Unless someone in your party is seriously too drunk, too loud, a toddler who throws things, or has fur and a tail. Then you need to aim for 25% or even more if you cost them money from other customers.
I never tip based on quality of service; mostly I go by whether our party was a big pain in the ass or a regular pain in the ass. If the service is bad, I tip the same and never come back.
55
Here's an idea- how about we do away with tipping all together, and restaurants and bars build the revenue lost without tips into the price of food/drinks so servers can still make a decent wage?
This notion of tipping as a motivator for good service is completely bullshit- know what happens in other industries when an employee doesn't do their job well? They get written up or fired... and I don't see why that can't work for the service industry too.
(Is tipping supposed to make up for shitty customers? Because it stands to reason that the kindness and compassion of a patron is directly proportionate to the amount of tip. Shitty customers generally leave shitty tips, so you're screwed in that regard.)
Can you imagine if every industry expected tips? If Police expected a tip for solving a murder quickly, or the Comcast guy for showing up on time, or even a surgeon for a procedure done correctly?
This notion of tipping as a motivator for good service is completely bullshit- know what happens in other industries when an employee doesn't do their job well? They get written up or fired... and I don't see why that can't work for the service industry too.
(Is tipping supposed to make up for shitty customers? Because it stands to reason that the kindness and compassion of a patron is directly proportionate to the amount of tip. Shitty customers generally leave shitty tips, so you're screwed in that regard.)
Can you imagine if every industry expected tips? If Police expected a tip for solving a murder quickly, or the Comcast guy for showing up on time, or even a surgeon for a procedure done correctly?
56
1)the automatic 20% tip is bullshit... (and, yeah, I've been a waiter). I undertip for deliberate BAD service (less than 15% more than 10) and usually tip in the 18% for average/good service and 20% if it's brilliant service, or if i'm drunk.
2)it's a fuckin' Zagat survey which doesn't mean much...And I'm a Midwesterner...I really doubt your average St Louisian is tipping anything close to 20%.
3)FNARF has never had bad service?
In Seattle, The Home of the Surly Disinterested Waitron?
Apparently, he's eating out at Salty's and The Cheesecake Factory...
2)it's a fuckin' Zagat survey which doesn't mean much...And I'm a Midwesterner...I really doubt your average St Louisian is tipping anything close to 20%.
3)FNARF has never had bad service?
In Seattle, The Home of the Surly Disinterested Waitron?
Apparently, he's eating out at Salty's and The Cheesecake Factory...
57
On an unrelated note, Savage's post "Who Said It?" with a current comment count of 51 is showing up on the Most Commented sidebar but this post, with 54 as I type this, is not. I'm guessing that the script that runs that sidebar has some code giving preference to Savage - he always has something in there.
58
Tips are an educational activity designed to remind the person working for the tip that they need to go find a real job. Seriously. I tip either 20% or zero, but even the people getting the 20%: get a non-tipping job.
Plus, 18.4% of of something is a shitload more than 20% of...nothing. I don't think 20% tippers are being kept out of bars and restaurants because they're already over-capacity with "cheapskates".
Plus, 18.4% of of something is a shitload more than 20% of...nothing. I don't think 20% tippers are being kept out of bars and restaurants because they're already over-capacity with "cheapskates".
59
"If you're tipping less than that for anything save abysmal service, you should just stay home."
Funny you say that because I do stay home not because it's not worth it to spend $6 - $10 for a sit down meal. It certainly is. But after tax and tip expectations for two people it just adds up too quickly so rather than eating out 3-4 times week I now eat out once per week.
I say we all stay home! Do the servers a big favor from these cheapo 15% tips.
Funny you say that because I do stay home not because it's not worth it to spend $6 - $10 for a sit down meal. It certainly is. But after tax and tip expectations for two people it just adds up too quickly so rather than eating out 3-4 times week I now eat out once per week.
I say we all stay home! Do the servers a big favor from these cheapo 15% tips.
60
I guess I'm tip-ignorant. Or old and crotchety. I remember when 10% was customary. I was barely getting used to 15%. I was still under the impression that 20% was extravagant, not baseline.
Hmmm. Maybe I should institute tips for my business...
Hmmm. Maybe I should institute tips for my business...
61
There is no way in hell this information is accurate. Anybody who works in the service industry will tell you those numbers are outrageously high. There are still plenty of people who tip 10% or not at all, and no way are there a commensurate number of people who tip 30%-40% to balance it out.
62
@58: WTF? Get a "real" job? Seriously, what the fuck does that mean? Only white collar jobs are "real" jobs?
A full-time waitron in a moderately priced, moderately successful restaurant with a liquor license in Seattle can easily be pulling down $20 to $30 an hour...I have a crappily paid white collar job in an office and that's more than I make.
Does that make my job less real than theirs? What's your cut-off for a "real" job? $40k a year? $50K? Apparently, everyone making less than that isn't "real" to you and of no consequence so I guess that means 95% of the people who make, distribute and sell the clothes you wear and the food you eat aren't important enough to exist in your definition of reality.
Seriously, you need to fuck off with that elitist bullshit. You're just asking for some bad karma.
A full-time waitron in a moderately priced, moderately successful restaurant with a liquor license in Seattle can easily be pulling down $20 to $30 an hour...I have a crappily paid white collar job in an office and that's more than I make.
Does that make my job less real than theirs? What's your cut-off for a "real" job? $40k a year? $50K? Apparently, everyone making less than that isn't "real" to you and of no consequence so I guess that means 95% of the people who make, distribute and sell the clothes you wear and the food you eat aren't important enough to exist in your definition of reality.
Seriously, you need to fuck off with that elitist bullshit. You're just asking for some bad karma.
63
Right on Fnarf! Thanks for pointing out what should be obiious: you'll get good service if you're not an asshole.
Do you people with the 'service people suck and don't deserve tips' attitude think that servers can't smell your shit from a mile away. People who get all bent out of shape about tipping almost always think that the service in their town sucks but what city is service great in? Take a look in the mirror and try treating your servers/bartenders/baristas etc. like poeple then be amazed at the good service, great coffee, stiff pours, and occasional freebie or secret treat. There are exceptions but for the most part, people who work in the service industry do it because we love food, drinks, coffee, cutting hair, or whatever and we like people. It's not even all about tips, it is a job and we do need the money but a 10% tip from an awesome customer who's kind of broke totally beats a 30% tip from a d-bag. If you treat us like crap we'll fuck with you and ruin your day, but we want you to have a great time and leave happy and full, buzzed, and looking good. We really do.
Do you people with the 'service people suck and don't deserve tips' attitude think that servers can't smell your shit from a mile away. People who get all bent out of shape about tipping almost always think that the service in their town sucks but what city is service great in? Take a look in the mirror and try treating your servers/bartenders/baristas etc. like poeple then be amazed at the good service, great coffee, stiff pours, and occasional freebie or secret treat. There are exceptions but for the most part, people who work in the service industry do it because we love food, drinks, coffee, cutting hair, or whatever and we like people. It's not even all about tips, it is a job and we do need the money but a 10% tip from an awesome customer who's kind of broke totally beats a 30% tip from a d-bag. If you treat us like crap we'll fuck with you and ruin your day, but we want you to have a great time and leave happy and full, buzzed, and looking good. We really do.
64
Would it be reasonable to speculate that, because servers are given higher base pay in Washington, restaurants save money by hiring fewer of them? And since there are fewer of them, they're required to wait on more tables than in other places, thus resulting in them becoming more busy and causing an overall decline in service?
65
I tip for sit-down food service. I usually double the sales tax, which yields 20% of the pre-tax bill. Nobody should tip on sales tax collections.
66
let's be honest. the food in Seattle is already incredibly overpriced for what you get. even the 'good' restaurants are only good in comparison to other Seattle restaurants. with Seattle being full of transplants and most of the food being average at best, should people really be expected to encourage mediocrity?
in my experience, it's not all that uncommon to have overcooked pasta in Seattle, and that's just a basic.
when it comes to drinks, since i tip before i taste, i always overtip with 20% being a base for most drinks, but often it's more. i even tip for the tap water i drink in bars.
in my experience, it's not all that uncommon to have overcooked pasta in Seattle, and that's just a basic.
when it comes to drinks, since i tip before i taste, i always overtip with 20% being a base for most drinks, but often it's more. i even tip for the tap water i drink in bars.
67
Having worked at a million restaurants in Seattle(scientific fact), as a busboy and waiter, I can attest that Seattle has some of the most bitchy diva servers in the country that expect to be tipped 20-30 percent every night regardless of how well they do their job.
In my experience, the ones that complain the most are the ones that provide the shitty service, will get your order wrong, and are generally rude. The good ones, and they are out there, generally don't complain because they are getting tipped well already.
In my experience, the ones that complain the most are the ones that provide the shitty service, will get your order wrong, and are generally rude. The good ones, and they are out there, generally don't complain because they are getting tipped well already.
68
I thought it was 15%. Where the hell does 20% come in? I would prefer all around good service and raised prices to tipping because I don't think tipping works. The better the restaurant, the better the service... In my experience in CA.
69
Might I direct you all to
10-Percent Tip Teaches Waitress Valuable Lesson
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/542…
That is all.
10-Percent Tip Teaches Waitress Valuable Lesson
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/542…
That is all.
70
@65 raises a good point.
Look, a standard tip is 15 percent on the PRE-TAX amount of the bill.
18 percent is fairly typical if service is good.
20 percent is for excellent service or if the group was being difficult.
But it's still on the pre-tax amount. Maybe this confuses some, but the tip is NEVER on the post-tax amount. You don't get a pay raise just cause we voted for light rail.
Look, a standard tip is 15 percent on the PRE-TAX amount of the bill.
18 percent is fairly typical if service is good.
20 percent is for excellent service or if the group was being difficult.
But it's still on the pre-tax amount. Maybe this confuses some, but the tip is NEVER on the post-tax amount. You don't get a pay raise just cause we voted for light rail.
71
and just for the record, even if a drink at Moe Bar is $2 tonite, if I was going, I'd probably leave $1 after I paid for the $2 drink, because they're great people there.
72
@48: Tip your doctor? Really? I've never heard that, and a Google search brings up nothing. Not sure who you might have heard that from, but it's BS.
73
Normally, you're not supposed to tip business owners (including the nice guy who runs a cafe) or professionals of any kind.
If you know them personally and they're friends, of course you can get them a present for their birthday or appropriate holiday, but that's not the same thing.
If you know them personally and they're friends, of course you can get them a present for their birthday or appropriate holiday, but that's not the same thing.
74
Matt in Denver nails the fuck out of it. I'm so fucking sick of being told how to tip. And where does it end? Five years from now it'll be 25%. Fuckers.
75
Don't servers here make the $7.50 minimum wage as a base? Its like $4 in NY. I tip well regardless.
77
"A person who is nice to you, but is not nice to the waitress, is not a nice person." --Dave Barry
I treat waitstaff - or any service personnel - the way I would like to be treated if I were working that particular job myself. I expect decent service, and will call their attention to problems, but I don't ask for a lot of special stuff and I don't make a scene or generally act like a dickhead. I nearly always get good service. When I don't, if it's clearly the server's fault, then they get less than 15%. Any kind of decent service gets 20%. I only occasionally go to 25% and above,and I either have to have caused some kind of problem or asked for something special to tip that high. Or occasionally, it's because the server was both cute and flirtatious; I'm as susceptible to that as any other lecherous old fart.
I wonder where all these surly servers are. I see them very occasionally, mostly as baristas, but almost never at sit-down restaurants. Most of the ones I see are both hard-working and pleasant.
I treat waitstaff - or any service personnel - the way I would like to be treated if I were working that particular job myself. I expect decent service, and will call their attention to problems, but I don't ask for a lot of special stuff and I don't make a scene or generally act like a dickhead. I nearly always get good service. When I don't, if it's clearly the server's fault, then they get less than 15%. Any kind of decent service gets 20%. I only occasionally go to 25% and above,and I either have to have caused some kind of problem or asked for something special to tip that high. Or occasionally, it's because the server was both cute and flirtatious; I'm as susceptible to that as any other lecherous old fart.
I wonder where all these surly servers are. I see them very occasionally, mostly as baristas, but almost never at sit-down restaurants. Most of the ones I see are both hard-working and pleasant.
78
The rules for tipping:
Competent service = 15%
Good service = 18-20%
Exceptional service = 20%+
Bartender/Barista service = $1-$2 per drink, depending on complexity and special requests.
Those are the rules. If you don't tip bartenders or waiters, or baristas, you go to hell.
Competent service = 15%
Good service = 18-20%
Exceptional service = 20%+
Bartender/Barista service = $1-$2 per drink, depending on complexity and special requests.
Those are the rules. If you don't tip bartenders or waiters, or baristas, you go to hell.
79
I just found out the new Emily Post recommends anyone earning more than $100,000 a year (from any source) should tip at 25 percent, and anyone who makes more than $500,000 a year should tip at 50 percent.
Sounds fair to me.
Sounds fair to me.
80
I used to agree with never going below 20% but that was before times got tough. Now if rounding to the nearest dollar means dipping slightly below 20, I don't worry about it. And you would advise me to just stay home and not spend any money at all? Dumb.
82
Since I was in high school (sales tax at about 7.5%) the rule of thumb was to tip double the tax. I want to know, when did that rule change?!
84
Tips are a way for the owner of a business to shift the cost of labor to the customer in way that makes it look voluntary. And it's crap. If the staff was properly paid, and the cost figured into the bill people would know what they would be earning and everyone could relax.
As for the 20% bullshit, that' something I think was started on some waiter's blog-and now it's loose in the wild and people are starting to believe it. NO ONE I know after 20 years in the industry expects 20% as a baseline for tipping.
I tip well, I'm nice to my service staff and I still feel anger at the way tips are used to manipulate to dining public.
As for the 20% bullshit, that' something I think was started on some waiter's blog-and now it's loose in the wild and people are starting to believe it. NO ONE I know after 20 years in the industry expects 20% as a baseline for tipping.
I tip well, I'm nice to my service staff and I still feel anger at the way tips are used to manipulate to dining public.
85
Seriously, 82, now 83, comments about tipping? What a bunch of superficial dickheads The Stranger readers are!
87
15% is perfectly acceptable.
I've worked in food service for 5 years, and over that time I've learned to tip 20% to make up for the shitheads who don't know how to tip. Exceptional service I'll go 30-50%, depending on the size of the bill of course.
I've worked in food service for 5 years, and over that time I've learned to tip 20% to make up for the shitheads who don't know how to tip. Exceptional service I'll go 30-50%, depending on the size of the bill of course.
88
As we all know, Money is the root of all Evil.
So, if you're an America-hating Republican, just sneer at your waiter.
So, if you're an America-hating Republican, just sneer at your waiter.
89
Remember: if you can't afford the tip, don't eat out as often, see restaurants close, servers don't have to worry about the level of their tips anymore, problem solved.
90
#85 this happens like once every few months. I was going to say something about it way back around comment #15, but, alas...
92
Children, it's 15%.
Round up if the service was good, or tip 20% if you're a guilt-ridden, insecure Seattleite.
Round up if the service was good, or tip 20% if you're a guilt-ridden, insecure Seattleite.
93
I only tip 15%, I don't give a shit if the service was excellent or just great. If the server sucks, I write in the tip line to go "F" themselves.
With a 20% tip you are paying with tax over 30% over list prices which is stupid.
The problem in Seattle is that everyone is so passive they allow these servers to get a way with shitty service and still give them a 20% tip. Stop the cycle, if you get crappy service let the manager know. All they need is someone to be badmouthing their establishment all over town.
With a 20% tip you are paying with tax over 30% over list prices which is stupid.
The problem in Seattle is that everyone is so passive they allow these servers to get a way with shitty service and still give them a 20% tip. Stop the cycle, if you get crappy service let the manager know. All they need is someone to be badmouthing their establishment all over town.
94
@88: The love of money is the root of all evil. Money itself is wonderful, I'd rather have it than not. But do I love it? No, we're just good friends.
95
What the fuck? Fuck that. I tip 15% at restaurants or other places with servers. If there's a tip jar, I dink in whatever my change is. If I like the person. Fuck you otherwise.
96
So, when do people tip less because the food was bad? Even if the service was good do you take into account that they food was awful? I had this discussion recently with someone and her view was that you should be tipping on the quality of service as the wait staff can rarely control what comes out of the kitchen. (Of course, that's not always true based on the cold or tepid food I've received when the waiter was slow.)
97
The reason is because restaurant workers in WA get $8.55/hr + tips. Restaurant workers in other states like Colorado ($2.13/hr + tips) and North Carolina ($2.50/hr + tips) don't get anything near that. Servers in Washington have it easy.
98
Good point, @96. Normally tips are split between waitstaff and kitchen, so it depends on what happened when you told the server that your food/drink was bad. Did they do anything about it?
99
#98. It's happened a number of times to all us, I'm sure, so it wasn't a specific example. But I'm one to "gently" discuss the issue with the waiter (unless it's going to put a damper on the party) without any expectations of what will happen next. Some will offer to take it off the bill, some will offer something else, some will offer dessert, etc., and some don't care that much. It all depends, but I don't really want anything and frequently I don't take what they offer as that wasn't the point. So, when it comes to the tip, though, how they responded is taken into account as that's kind of a measure of the quality of service. (Earlier in life I worked in many restaurants, beginning at the age of 15, so I'm coming at this from perspective of knowing what goes on in the kitchen and the front of the house.)
100
I tip 15%, but if I get a discount I always tip on the non-discounted amount. It's not the server's fault I had a coupon.
I also try to tip in cash whenever possible. I've noticed credit card tips sometimes don't go through.
I also try to tip in cash whenever possible. I've noticed credit card tips sometimes don't go through.
101
@58: WTF? Get a "real" job? Seriously, what the fuck does that mean? Only white collar jobs are "real" jobs?
While not being the only disqualifier for what I consider to be a "real" job, being dependent on tips is near the top (along with mandatory union membership, not that I'm opposed to the idea of unions).
I've worked for tips (food service), and it quickly impressed upon me how crappy the job was. I'd get dinged for shit that was often completely beyond my control, while being paid a shitty below-minimum wage rate? Get me the hell out of here.
I've known plenty of people in the service industries who were dependent on tips, and overwhelmingly, the only ones who ended up with savings, mortgages, stability were those who figured out that tips are a sucker's game. Jobs which include paid vacation and sick leave, decent health care, a retirement plan--those are "real" jobs. Very rarely do those jobs include "tips".
Raise the minimum wage. Tips are just a way for your boss to pay you shit and make you dependent on people's largesse.
While not being the only disqualifier for what I consider to be a "real" job, being dependent on tips is near the top (along with mandatory union membership, not that I'm opposed to the idea of unions).
I've worked for tips (food service), and it quickly impressed upon me how crappy the job was. I'd get dinged for shit that was often completely beyond my control, while being paid a shitty below-minimum wage rate? Get me the hell out of here.
I've known plenty of people in the service industries who were dependent on tips, and overwhelmingly, the only ones who ended up with savings, mortgages, stability were those who figured out that tips are a sucker's game. Jobs which include paid vacation and sick leave, decent health care, a retirement plan--those are "real" jobs. Very rarely do those jobs include "tips".
Raise the minimum wage. Tips are just a way for your boss to pay you shit and make you dependent on people's largesse.
102
I give 20%, plus a buck or two at bars I frequent, because 1) I don't frequent bars with bad service, so I feel like they deserve it, and 2) if you can't afford to tip well for good service, drink at home.
If I'm comp'ed a cocktail, which happens almost always (maybe because I'm not a cheap fuck like others on this thread), I add a few bucks more.
If I'm comp'ed a cocktail, which happens almost always (maybe because I'm not a cheap fuck like others on this thread), I add a few bucks more.
103
I do stay home. Gave up the restaurant scene in Seattle about 8 years ago. The reasons: thirty plus-dollar entrees times two, frequently leaving the restaurant still hungry, and having to tip 20% on an already large tab. I was just feeling robbed - good service or not.
How many of us are in the position of not missing the 80, 90, or 100 dollars it costs to eat one meal out?
How many of us are in the position of not missing the 80, 90, or 100 dollars it costs to eat one meal out?
105
@23 Your an ass. Saying that "most" states pay a lower minimum wage to servers is ignorant and not well researched. There are a few states in the south and on the east coast that pay less but it is not the US norm by a long shot. A server at a restaurant works just as hard as any jackass behind a desk and often she has a family to raise as well just like you. I am sorry that all ya'll have a problem with sales tax and tipping etiquette but perhaps you should analyze how bad you want to eat out before you walk out your door. If you don't want to tip the 20 percent for good service go to trader joes and use your microwave.
106
I hate to be a contrarian to dear fnarf (old people need to stick together) but I am oftentimes disappointed by service people in Seattle, although it seems to have gotten better in recent years, as people of my generation have moved on to to unfulfilling corporate work where they don't have to talk to anyone.
For instance, there's a trendy coffee parlor on Pike Street up on Capitol Hill. I used to go in there almost every day, and always tipped well, but I finally gave up. I can't tell you how many times I waited until the counter person and their friend got done talking so I could place my order. And they never smiled, never acknowledged me. I'm not some bore who expects them to remember my regular order, or ask about my life, or anything like that, but a little friendliness or an occasional smile would have been nice.
And my particular pet peeve is when I put down cash for a bill, and the server asks me if I want change. It stands to figure that if I had a $7.00 lunch, and put a twenty down, I am probably expecting something back. Take the cash, and unless I specifically say to keep the change, bring me what's left over.
For instance, there's a trendy coffee parlor on Pike Street up on Capitol Hill. I used to go in there almost every day, and always tipped well, but I finally gave up. I can't tell you how many times I waited until the counter person and their friend got done talking so I could place my order. And they never smiled, never acknowledged me. I'm not some bore who expects them to remember my regular order, or ask about my life, or anything like that, but a little friendliness or an occasional smile would have been nice.
And my particular pet peeve is when I put down cash for a bill, and the server asks me if I want change. It stands to figure that if I had a $7.00 lunch, and put a twenty down, I am probably expecting something back. Take the cash, and unless I specifically say to keep the change, bring me what's left over.
107
@ 105, no one but the most awesome server in the world deserves 20%. You're most likely not as good as you think you are.
108
when i get a $7 tip on $50 from nice people that were obviously happy with my service (which is way too often these days, damn recession) i ask myself where the fuck these people come from and why they think this is acceptable. now i know, sloggers, you are everwhere! your college educations and liberal political leanings have given you just the entitlement you need to justify collectively bringing down the baseline of fair tipping. now you even have a little comment thread of friends who want to bro down with you about how service industry people make you mad and don't deserve your hard earned money!
i bet you think you deserve better health insurance than i do, but you would never say it.
i bet you think you deserve better health insurance than i do, but you would never say it.
110
@107. I AM as good as I think I am and I'm not in the service industry. I am a decent person that understands people work hard for their living and the difference between a 7 dollar tip on 50 dollar check and a 10 dollar tip is only three dollars to me, and not a big deal. But it is a huge deal to that server. It is difficult to be in a position where assholes like you are allowed to decide on the monetary worth of a person. It is too bad that you are unwilling to put aside your arrogant small mind to actually be kind and support the people working for you.
112
So now it's 20% post-tax on a tax that is already double digits. Which makes it almost a third of the bill. Okay, WTF!
113
- At coffeeshops, drop a buck for every espresso drink. Coffee and tea isn't necessarily but dropping spare pocket change is a nice touch.
- At restaurants, 15% is fine, but round up to the nearest dollar. Don't be a twat and count out pennies to make sure the waitress doesn't jack you out of an extra 0.5%. If 15% of a bill is $1.75, just make it $2. If that 25 cents matters, you probably shouldn't be eating out anyway.
- Refuse to tip at either of these establishments at your own risk. And don't come crying if the service sucks. You kind of asked for it.
- At restaurants, 15% is fine, but round up to the nearest dollar. Don't be a twat and count out pennies to make sure the waitress doesn't jack you out of an extra 0.5%. If 15% of a bill is $1.75, just make it $2. If that 25 cents matters, you probably shouldn't be eating out anyway.
- Refuse to tip at either of these establishments at your own risk. And don't come crying if the service sucks. You kind of asked for it.
114
The idea that the kitchen gets a share of FOH tips is wrong. Sometimes the reat of the floor staff is tipped out-runners, busboys, back waiters and so on, but the kitchen rarely gets tips. I only know of two establishments where the kitchen shared in tips and they were unusual enough to get written up in industry trade magazines.
115
surprised flat tipping didn't come up. according to one study they make up ~20% of the population. good read here: http://www.slate.com/id/2073161/
116
(a) I call bullshit on St Louis tipping at almost 20%; I'm from there and my entire family lives there and I've never once seen anyone tip over 15%.
(b) Having dined all over the country, Seattle has higher prices in restaurants (as do all major urban cities)- even my subway sandwhich costs about $1-$1.50 more than it does in the midwest. That means servers who are working just as hard in the midwest, earn less money from tips than those on the west coast. Consider yourself lucky if you are making 15% in tips in Seattle because it's on grossly inflated food prices and trust me, you are not working any harder than the server at the Applebees in Iowa. You are lucky there are enough people in this city willing to pay $30 for a salmon entree and yet somehow you think you deserve $6 to carry it to the table.
(c) I have a friend who serves at a semi-nice establishment in Seattle. She makes about 2.5 times what I do, has no college education, and routinely lectures me that 20% is standard because the owner of her restaurant requires servers to tip out every gd worker in the place before taking home her own tips. If she averages 15% in tips she tips out others in the restaurant from her own pocket. This is an asshole move on the owner of the restaurant and I'll be damned if I, as the customer (who incidentally tips pretty well), need to be guilt-tripped into making sure some busboy makes at least $16 an hour when that's more than I take home at my job, where I work on creating infectious disease vaccines. So for all you servers, bartenders, hair-stylists, etc who make $20+ per hour (and we all know most of you aren't paying taxes on your tips so that drives you incomes up even higher)..before you whine to your friends about what you earn and how hard your job is, think about your audience. Lots of us are toiling out there in just as stressful jobs making less than you. Suck it up- if your job sucked that bad you'd have quit by now and gotten a better one. Oh wait, you didn't go to college and aren't skilled at a trade so there's no other job that would pay you as much that requires less training than being a server!
More...
(b) Having dined all over the country, Seattle has higher prices in restaurants (as do all major urban cities)- even my subway sandwhich costs about $1-$1.50 more than it does in the midwest. That means servers who are working just as hard in the midwest, earn less money from tips than those on the west coast. Consider yourself lucky if you are making 15% in tips in Seattle because it's on grossly inflated food prices and trust me, you are not working any harder than the server at the Applebees in Iowa. You are lucky there are enough people in this city willing to pay $30 for a salmon entree and yet somehow you think you deserve $6 to carry it to the table.
(c) I have a friend who serves at a semi-nice establishment in Seattle. She makes about 2.5 times what I do, has no college education, and routinely lectures me that 20% is standard because the owner of her restaurant requires servers to tip out every gd worker in the place before taking home her own tips. If she averages 15% in tips she tips out others in the restaurant from her own pocket. This is an asshole move on the owner of the restaurant and I'll be damned if I, as the customer (who incidentally tips pretty well), need to be guilt-tripped into making sure some busboy makes at least $16 an hour when that's more than I take home at my job, where I work on creating infectious disease vaccines. So for all you servers, bartenders, hair-stylists, etc who make $20+ per hour (and we all know most of you aren't paying taxes on your tips so that drives you incomes up even higher)..before you whine to your friends about what you earn and how hard your job is, think about your audience. Lots of us are toiling out there in just as stressful jobs making less than you. Suck it up- if your job sucked that bad you'd have quit by now and gotten a better one. Oh wait, you didn't go to college and aren't skilled at a trade so there's no other job that would pay you as much that requires less training than being a server!
117
A tip is a gratuity, which by definition is at the largesse of the customer. No tip is "required" to buy a meal, and still, the service is expected because by definition, you buy a meal, you have a right to receive it warm and tasty. The tip is a way of saying thanks. Any tip should always be appreciated, even a 10 or 15% drop because it's a TIP, an extra, an act of generosity to pay more than the bill, a THANK YOU. If a server can't appreciate a thank you in any form, then there is a grave personality issue at play, an issue that a talk with a manager will surely straighten out in no time.
118
Right on BJC. I appreciate your sentiment in posting this. The whiners on this post make me sad. Sound like a bunch of elite jerks to me.
Hey everyone, maybe if you just tipped a little better you wouldn't have to post such guilty/outraged comments when someone suggests you pay an extra few cents or buck on a tip every now and then.
Hey everyone, maybe if you just tipped a little better you wouldn't have to post such guilty/outraged comments when someone suggests you pay an extra few cents or buck on a tip every now and then.
119
@ 118, here's a better idea. Why don't you tip 100% and the rest of us will stick with the REAL baseline of15-18%?
120
I'd like a survey reporting on the percentage of tips that are actually reported to the IRS as income.
121
I want to know where these thrice be damned numbers are coming from. When growing up, it was 10%. Only a few years ago it was 15%. Now it's 20%? How is a person supposed to know what percent they are supposed to be tipping?! What is all this all based on? Do we just wait until someone decides, "Oh, no, 25% is the new 10%!" and as this gradually spreads around, start doing it? Waaaaah. I don't understand.
122
BJC, thanks for bringing this up again. I think tipping should have no baseline (although personally for me its %10) but due to the vitriol on this post--myself as a server mind you--I think I will rarely ever tip %20 from now on--the service best be excellent, the check never rushed, a salutation when I sit and exit. The prices that a great deal of seattle's restaurants are charging are heinous from what comes out of their kitchens and those establishments (Harvest Vine to name one) should pay their servers more to begin with--I am not against tipping at all but when you jack the entree prices up you need to slip some of that cash into the server's paychecks as well--do not make them wholly dependent on the kindness of strangers to live their lives. And let's start that thread on who has the worst servers/service in town--Ill be interested to see if my work is on that list.
123
WA has the highest hourly mean wage for servers in the country, $13.27/hr compared to $9.41/hr national average. Don't shame people leaving 15% for adequate service, our servers are the highest paid in the country.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/2008/may/oes35303…
http://www.bls.gov/oes/2008/may/oes35303…
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