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Friday, October 30, 2009

Savage Love Letter of the Day

Posted by on Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 3:35 PM

I read your column all the time and I'm hoping you could help me with something. I'm a straight 16-year-old female and I like porn. But for some reason I really enjoy watching Girl-On-Girl or a Girl-With-Toys. If there is a guy in it I find myself looking at the girl. I have no sexual desire for women when I'm not watching porn and I have all the normal teen girl fantasies about boys. But I do remember when I was around eight experimenting sexually with a neighbor (also a girl, also around eight). Does watching lesbian and/or bi porn have something to do with processing that experience or am I a lesbian and don't know it yet? I'm seriously trying to figure this out.

Very Confused

You might be a lesbian or bisexual but not because you experimented with a neighbor girl at age eight—if that made girls queer, VC, there wouldn't be many straight women around. If you do wind up being a lesbian when you grow up it’ll be because you’re emotionally and sexually attracted to other women, not because your were spooked into lesbianism by the kind of run-of-the-mill sexual experimentation that almost all children engage in.

Why can’t you take your eyes off the women when you watch porn if you're not queer? Well, you could be projecting yourself into the porn, i.e. wishing you were those women, wishing you were experiencing what they’re experiencing, getting off vicariously. Or… you could wanna fuck those girls. You need to ask yourself this: What goes through my mind when I'm watching porn? And why didn't I include that highly relevant detail in my letter to "Savage Love"? If you want to kiss those women, if you want to get all girl-on-girl with ‘em, if you want to be the one manipulating those toys, or being the toy, then you might be a dyke.

As for those normal-teen-girl-fantasies-about-boys, do you fantasize about having a boyfriend or do you fantasize about doing a boyfriend? If your boyfriend-related fantasies revolve around the social perks alone—the companionship, the affirmation, the status—you might be a dyke. But if your fantasies about a boyfriend include sucking face (and other things) in addition to the social perks, well, you might be straight or bi.

You’re only 16, VC. Right now all you can do is listen to your heart and your twat and trust that they will, in good time, let you know who and what you are. In the meantime, enjoy—because what other choice do you have?

 

Comments (47) RSS

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Griffin 1
Wait two years and go to college? In the meantime, enjoy your porn.
Posted by Griffin on October 30, 2009 at 3:41 PM · Report this
2
oh to be 16 again. Especially nowadays.
Posted by Shnurkyef on October 30, 2009 at 3:46 PM · Report this
michael strangeways 3
just because you enjoy looking at something doesn't mean you want to experience it...millons of people read murder mysteries but don't (really) have any desire to experience the real thing (as victim, suspect, culprit or detective). Or, you might really love space travel sci-fi but have little interest in actually traveling in a space ship and encountering a real alien. The IDEA of space travel and hooking up with Neptunians is fun when you read about it or see it on screen but the reality is scary, claustrophobic, and probably highly annoying.

And, this girl could just be a highly specific voyeur.
Posted by michael strangeways http://www.seattlegayscene.com/ on October 30, 2009 at 4:03 PM · Report this
Fnarf 4
Jesus, no kidding. When I was 16 porn meant the moldy early-seventies Playboys (that would be pre-pubic hair) that my friend had hidden in a hole out in the woods behind his house.

My advice to this girl would be "you're still going to be trying to figure this out forty years from now, dear, and it's the figuring out that's the good part."
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on October 30, 2009 at 4:04 PM · Report this
Fifty-Two-Eighty 5
Well, I certainly can't comment about anything lesbian, so I'll leave that to the people who can. But I'd jump on a spaceship to Neptune tomorrow if I had the chance.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty http://www.nra.org on October 30, 2009 at 4:06 PM · Report this
Jaymz 6
I flashed on a film where the male-female leads switch glasses in a movie theater: The blue glasses put you in the position of the male and the pink glasses put you in the position of the female on the screen. Anyone remember the name of that one? The "projecting" part of Dan's response makes a lot of sense to me, but the best part is telling her to be honest with her own feelings and desires. Good job, Dan.
Posted by Jaymz on October 30, 2009 at 4:13 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 7
pics or it didn't happen ;-)
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on October 30, 2009 at 4:16 PM · Report this
Irena 8
This could have been me when I was in my early teens, and I turned out straight (for the most part). Girls were just prettier and sexier than boys. Of course, I grew up in a small town, where all the guys had mustaches and hockey hair! They were all about impressing each other, not us.

And I got off on the power dynamic between girls -- my friends were bad girls, mean girls, so there was a lot of potential for sexy fantasies there. But I sometimes think it's because guys aren't sexualized as much by our culture, whereas women really are. As an older teen, I had a series of intense crushes on guys who turned out to be gay, or effeminate straight guys (others called them fags, I called them hot). What can I say, I like pretty, sexy things. Maybe the LW just hasn't found her type of boy yet. I say, give it time.
Posted by Irena on October 30, 2009 at 4:46 PM · Report this
Bauhaus I 9
Silently, but profoundly and deeply, I roar with laughter at the thought of tight-assed Conservatives reading Savage's words to a sixteen-old-girl advising her to, "listen to your heart and your twat."

Where were you when I was sixteen, Dan?
Posted by Bauhaus I on October 30, 2009 at 4:57 PM · Report this
Vince 10
What do you masturbate about? Do you fantasize about a guy or a girl? That might be a clue.
Posted by Vince on October 30, 2009 at 5:32 PM · Report this
attitude devant 11
Wow, what a sweet letter. Remember when you thought you had to be one thing or another, and your essential self seemed mysterious, even to you?
Posted by attitude devant on October 30, 2009 at 5:51 PM · Report this
Rotten666 12
When I die i want to be reincarnated as a hot 16 year old lesbian.
Posted by Rotten666 on October 30, 2009 at 5:51 PM · Report this
Rotten666 13
When I die I want to be reincarnated as a hot 16 year old lesbian.
Posted by Rotten666 on October 30, 2009 at 5:53 PM · Report this
14
It took me a long time to figure out why I like girl-on-girl porn. I'm a straight-ish woman, and I like to watch girly action because I identify with the girls and what they're experiencing. What turns my crank is, as Dan points out, the sense of projecting myself into their situation. Watching a girl get all hot and bothered stimulates my empathy juices!
Posted by Maile on October 30, 2009 at 5:53 PM · Report this
15
i think #3 might be on to something, with the voyeur mention. and i use voyeur as something positive.

VC never specifically says she's turned on by the girl/girl porn - just that she likes it. could 'like' mean curious, fascinated by, interested in, etc? at 16 i could have confused those feelings for actual sexual attraction. and at 16, who doesn't want to see someone of the same sex? who wouldn't want a peek? so dan is right that only time will tell, and only VC will know for sure. a straight guy's 2 cents.

(a straight guy who remembers the first porn he watched, and how seeing another guy's cock was as much part of the experience as the woman.)
Posted by from_ohio on October 30, 2009 at 6:05 PM · Report this
16
@9
Posted by from_ohio on October 30, 2009 at 6:09 PM · Report this
Loveschild 17
The two most important things that should've been asked were overlooked by Savage. Are this girls parents aware of what she has been doing since she was eight? And who is she obtaining porn from now?

It's greatly crass for Savage to not have asked that, for all we know this kid could be the victim of some sort of abuse that has led to this sort of confusion in her mind.
Posted by Loveschild http://www.samaritanspurse.org/index.php/articles/responding_to_haiti_earthquake/ on October 30, 2009 at 6:13 PM · Report this
18
#3 is right with the voyeur mention. and i'll use voyeur in a positive way.

VC never explicitly says she's turned on by the girl/girl porn, but likes it. could 'like' mean curious, interested in, fascinated by, etc? i know at 16 i could have confused those feelings for actual sexual attraction. and at 16 who doesn't want to sneak a peek of someone else's body, especially of the same gender? dan is right, only time will tell, and only VC can tell for sure. a straight guy's 2 cents.

(a straight guy who remembers the first porn he watched, and seeing another guy's cock was as much part of the experience as the woman.)
Posted by from_ohio on October 30, 2009 at 6:22 PM · Report this
kim in portland 19
I'm glad your around today, Dan. I'll echo, Bauhaus I, you sure would have been a hell of a lot of help when I was sixteen, too.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on October 30, 2009 at 6:34 PM · Report this
Carollani 20
GAY! So, so gay.
Posted by Carollani http://twitter.com/carollani on October 30, 2009 at 6:57 PM · Report this
brocaine 21
John Berger's "Ways of Seeing" has an amazing chapter about the female nude that totally gets to what this is about, and it is fucking great.
Posted by brocaine http://www.superporkteenexplosion.com on October 30, 2009 at 7:03 PM · Report this
22
You've got it wrong on this one, Dan. Even the straightest 16-year-old girl in the world takes a while to get used to the naked male form. Women are visually prettier to young women. Girls get drawn into sex for emotional reasons and to be desired, they like the power and the attention and want to be brought to orgasm. Men are the orgasm bringers and the ones who stir their hearts. It's part of growing into a woman to develop appreciation for the male body as visually erotic--it takes sexual experience and maturity.
Posted by Marrena on October 30, 2009 at 7:17 PM · Report this
23
"If your boyfriend-related fantasies revolve around the social perks alone—the companionship, the affirmation, the status—you might be a dyke. But if your fantasies about a boyfriend include sucking face (and other things) in addition to the social perks, well, you might be straight or bi."

With the genders switched, this helped me answer questions about myself. Great advice Dan.
Posted by MT3 on October 30, 2009 at 7:23 PM · Report this
24
I just asked the same thing; Dan, if someone had asked me "do you fantasize about having a boyfriend or do you fantasize about doing a boyfriend?" I probably wouldn't have struggled through a relationship with a guy for five years in high school. Now that I've come to terms with my sexuality, I couldn't be happier.
Posted by yes_lucy on October 30, 2009 at 7:53 PM · Report this
25
And now I'm flashing on dubious hit singles:

Listen to your heart!
And your twa-a-a-at!
When you watch porn,
it's girls that you loo-ook at.
To know how you're wanting,
you must figure out why;
Listen to your heart
before you pursue some guy.
Posted by christopher on October 30, 2009 at 8:00 PM · Report this
26
And now I'm flashing on dubious hit singles:

Listen to your heart!
And your twaa-aa-aa-at!
When you watch porn,
it's girls that you're looking at.
To know how you're wanting,
you must figure out why;
Listen to your heart,
before you pursue some guy.
Posted by christopher on October 30, 2009 at 8:02 PM · Report this
27
And now I'm flashing on dubious hit singles:

Listen to your heart!
And your twa-a-a-at!
When you watch porn,
it's girls that you loo-ook at.
To know how you're wanting,
you must figure out why;
Listen to your heart
before you pursue some guy.
Posted by christopher on October 30, 2009 at 8:02 PM · Report this
28
And now I'm flashing on dubious hit singles:

Listen to your heart!
And your twa-a-a-at!
When you watch porn,
it's girls that you loo-ook at.
To know how you're wanting,
you must figure out why;
Listen to your heart
before you pursue some guy.
Posted by christopher on October 30, 2009 at 8:08 PM · Report this
29
And now I'm flashing on dubious hit singles:

Listen to your heart!
And your twa-a-a-at!
When you watch porn,
it's girls that you loo-ook at.
To know how you're wanting,
you must figure out why;
Listen to your heart
before you pursue some guy.
Posted by christopher on October 30, 2009 at 8:23 PM · Report this
30
Well, guys in porn are terrifying. I can't imagine many 16 year old girls being attracted to them. I can't imagine many girls of any age being attracted to them. They're some ugly manifestation of the id, which is why dudes like them.

Why not the obvious: "Duh, you're bi." Maybe mostly-straight-bi, or bi-for-my-boyfriend-bi, but likely at least a little bi. You just visited the Kinsey Institute, didn't they tell you about the spectrum?
Posted by Schorschi on October 30, 2009 at 8:28 PM · Report this
seandr 31
If enjoying girl-girl porn makes a woman a lesbian, my marriage is in big trouble.
Posted by seandr on October 30, 2009 at 9:43 PM · Report this
Greg 32
Go make out with some girls, see if it does anything for you. (Don't do it at a party. All you'll get is dudes taking pictures to post on the internet.)
Posted by Greg on October 30, 2009 at 10:15 PM · Report this
33
loveschild, she didn't say she's been watching porn since she was eight. and do her parents know she watches it? so, she should go tell them so they can get her into therapy for her perversions? and no one has to supply her with porn, it's not all that hard for a 16 yr old with any smarts to access it on her own, and among her friends, in 2009. your comments suggest like you were beamed in from midcentury just to comment here, then beamed back again until next time.
Posted by ellarosa on October 31, 2009 at 1:09 AM · Report this
34
The only porn I ever got my hands on when I was 8 (and 9, 10, etc), back in the 70s/80s were my dad's copies of Playboy and Oui and my mom's copies of Nancy Friday's books. I'm a straight woman and still find this stuff titillating, which I find kind of annoying (have you ever read Nancy Friday??). So I'm fascinated that kids today have access to honest-to-god porn at age 8 and up. It will be really interesting to see how this shapes sexuality for their generation. I just hope she is finding stuff that portrays women in an empowered light, rather than the usual run-of-the-mill degradation.
Posted by mitten on October 31, 2009 at 8:09 AM · Report this
Reverse Polarity 35
Why are (male) cum shots so important in straight porn? Keep in mind that a vast majority of the consumers of straight porn are men. Why would straight guys NEED to see male cum shots?

It isn't because they are gay or love cock. It is because they empathize with the male actors in porn. They mentally put themselves in the place of the male actors.

So VC might be gay or bi, but more likely VC is just straight and empathizing with the female porn stars.
Posted by Reverse Polarity on October 31, 2009 at 9:36 AM · Report this
Mike in MO 36
I very definitely realized my sexuality through watching porn. I knew I liked the girls, but couldn't help being turned on by the guys too. Then I watched some outright gay porn and KNEW.

She's probably bi.
Posted by Mike in MO on October 31, 2009 at 9:39 AM · Report this
37
Hmm. Why is it that wanting to kiss a chick in a fantasy makes you a lesbian but wanting to get raped in a fantasy scenario *doesn't* mean you want to get raped in real life?
Posted by idaho on October 31, 2009 at 10:46 AM · Report this
38
I totally watch the girl in porn, too. You're *supposed* to watch the girl. The whole porn is geared towards looking at the girl. The important part: while you're watching. do you want to fuck the girl or be the girl?
Posted by MichelleZB on October 31, 2009 at 11:58 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 39
"Why are (male) cum shots so important in straight porn? Keep in mind that a vast majority of the consumers of straight porn are men. Why would straight guys NEED to see male cum shots?

It isn't because they are gay or love cock. It is because they empathize with the male actors in porn. They mentally put themselves in the place of the male actors."

Hahahah, this is why straight m/f porn grosses me out. The guys are generally ugly, hairy, and either overmuscled or fat and stupid, grunts are gross, they talk too much, and cumshots do not make me "empathize".
Posted by undead ayn rand on October 31, 2009 at 12:38 PM · Report this
40
1) Everyone's right about the guys in porn. Ugh. I'm with Irena @ 8. Try some pretty boy porn!

2) You do need time and experience to figure out your sexuality--and odds are it'll probably change a little bit with experimentation, in the sense that your taste will change over the years based on your emotional, physical and psychosexual development and your experiences. I like different things now than I did at 16 (though pretty boys still figure pretty centrally, at least in fantasy!).

3) Why does it have to be about identifying with the girl OR with the guy? For me, I like watching the girls getting into it because of the power dynamic: watching ANYONE really sexy getting turned on turns me on because the voyeuristic act of watching them get turned on makes me want it, and because I love the idea that I could make someone else feel that way (so turned on they can't help themself). Maybe try some D/s stuff as well, if she hasn't already?
Posted by Peri on October 31, 2009 at 5:10 PM · Report this
41
I'm as straight as they come, but watching an attractive guy get off (even by himself) turns me on, just because I can imagine the feeling, and so I desire it. I don't want to suck the dick I see, necessarily, but I do enjoy looking at it.
Posted by str8boi on October 31, 2009 at 11:47 PM · Report this
42
I have the exact same experience. I'm a straight girl, but when I watch porn, I'm fixated on the women- their reactions, the sounds they make, etc. I'm pretty positive it's because by the nature of porn aimed at heterosexual guys, the women are the only ones who seem to be legitimately "into" it. The men... their expressions don't change (when you actually see their faces). They rarely make noise.

They're just less erotic to watch, most of the time.
Posted by queenofspades on November 1, 2009 at 11:55 AM · Report this
43
The "projection" explanation is almost certainly correct. Turn this around for a minute and ask: "Why does so much straight male porn concentrate on the cock?" Think about it. The cock being sucked...the cock ramming the girl...the cock cumming on her face. Is it because the straight males watching are really gay? No, it's because they are projecting. This is THEIR cock being sucked, etc.

The same is true of VC. She is projecting that SHE is having that happen to her.

Or she's gay.
Posted by C_in_VA on November 1, 2009 at 1:43 PM · Report this
William T. Fuckweiler 44
A lady I know says her only erotic dreams are lady on lady, but in daytime life, she's as straight as women get (not as hetero as Alexyss K Tylor, but close). Anyway, yes, I say, It's because she relates to the female parts and female experience more strongly than the male parts / experience. Am I wrong?
-
Posted by William T. Fuckweiler on November 2, 2009 at 10:56 AM · Report this
45
Study after study has shown that womens' sexuality is much more fluid. Women are turned on by any moving images of sexual activity, no matter the species or the sex. And women thus have a significantly bigger disconnect between what they find visually stimulating (or in their fantasies) and what they like in real life.

I started watching porn in elementary school when I found my mom's stash. It was pretty instructive for my teenage sex life, but at the time I was much more interested in girl-on-girl porn, as well. I grew up to be a straight woman, and have never had any inclination to kiss much less do anything sexual with a woman in real life. Even as an adult, the things that get me off when I'm watching porn are not even remotely related to anything I would get into in real life.

Unless this chick has a crush on someone with a vagina she actually sees on a regular basis, she's probably just having a healthy time fantasizing like the rest of us.
Posted by resipsalc on November 2, 2009 at 12:10 PM · Report this
bishtraining.wordpress.com 46
"You need to ask yourself this: What goes through my mind when I'm watching porn? And why didn't I include that highly relevant detail in my letter to "Savage Love"? "

Ha loved that bit!

She may be gay or she may be straight or somewhere in between. Like someone else said, maybe it's to do with wanting to be the star of the show. Perhaps also porn with girls featuring toys rather than dick might be less threatening to someone just learning about their sexuality? Maybe? Perhaps?
Posted by bishtraining.wordpress.com http://bishUK.com on November 3, 2009 at 11:07 AM · Report this
TheFang 47
Probably just that the guys in straight porn tend to be super ugly, as a straight girl I have no desire to watch straight guy on gal porn because they're so unattractive I can't get turned on.
Posted by TheFang on November 3, 2009 at 4:21 PM · Report this

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