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News & ArtsFriday, October 30, 2009
News / ??!! Silent Truth
Posted by Paul Constant on Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 1:25 PM
In a small village in the dun-colored hills of South Waziristan, soldiers found a German passport belonging to Said Bahaji, a German citizen and associate of Mohammed Atta, the leader of the 9/11 hijackers.The passport was issued in Hamburg in August 2, 2001 and was accompanied by a Pakistani visa dated August 3, 2001. The documents indicated that Mr. Bahaji landed in Karachi from Istanbul on Sept. 4, 2001.
The apparent presence of Mr. Bahaji in the tribal areas of Pakistan is a clear indication that members of the Qaeda network — including participants in the 9/11 plot — have taken refuge here, as American officials, like Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday, have charged.
"Well, shit," I thought. "This is going to punch a hole in a bunch of 9/11 Truther theories. I wonder how they're going to respond." After all, Truthers are big on disseminating information, right? So I went to a bunch of Truther sites to see what they had to say about this New York Times story.
Hmmm. We Are Change Seattle doesn't have anything at all about it. 911 Blogger is weirdly silent, too. Come on, guys! Isn't somebody going to float a theory that the Pakistani Army is covering for George W. Bush by faking information? Nothing at 911 Truthaction except for that stunning silver fox of a Wheelie-Truther there to the left. Almost all of these sites to make scary references to Glenn Beck. And it looks like 911Truth.org doesn't have anything about it either...wait a minute! I see the words "New York Times" further down on the page. Maybe they have something to say about the Pakistani evidence:
Sigh. Never mind.
1
still doesn't explain how a 47 story building (WTC7) falls to the ground in 6 seconds, while never being hit by a plane...
2
That's because it's an obvious plant by the Pakistanis trying to get more funding from us.
Which you'd know if you realized that al-Qaeda still gets more than 95 percent of its funding and volunteers from just one country - Saudi Arabia.
And which is why we have CIA predator drones illegally assassinating their leaders in Yemen (which is a Good Thing, unlike the clusterfuck that is the Iraq War and the Afghanistan War).
Which you'd know if you realized that al-Qaeda still gets more than 95 percent of its funding and volunteers from just one country - Saudi Arabia.
And which is why we have CIA predator drones illegally assassinating their leaders in Yemen (which is a Good Thing, unlike the clusterfuck that is the Iraq War and the Afghanistan War).
3
@1, agreed. I mean...how could a building, which is located right next to the twin towers, possibly crumble from a mere multiple tons of concrete, glass, air plane wreckage, and other debris in a mere 6 seconds...after having been put under all this strain for a long period of time. Yes. Hmm. I can't possibly imagine a scenario in which that might happen. Nope.
4
@3, especially a building that's been on fire for quite a few hours. I believe that that makes them impervious to collapse, right truthers?
5
This also shits on the pervasive "Why are we fighting the Taliban? They didn't have anything to do with 911!" crap too.
6
The reason WTC7 collapsed was because of FNORD, the sudden FNORD of FNORD, and too many FNORD in the FNORD.
7
Maybe the Truthers and Birthers can all fuck off to a little island somewhere and make babies....then they can return to their jobs at Kinkos.
9
@3/4
can you please point out the fire and structural damage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p…
can you please point out the fire and structural damage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p…
11
@9
No, because I'm at work and they don't let me watch youtube videos here.
OMG!
THEY ARE A PART OF THE CONSPIRACY!
No, because I'm at work and they don't let me watch youtube videos here.
OMG!
THEY ARE A PART OF THE CONSPIRACY!
13
@11
well watch the video later, then explain it....
btw, i don't claim to speculate on who or what happened on 9/11.... just asking questions....
but apparently asking questions about our government is a radical idea in your opinion....
one that requires your mockery.
well watch the video later, then explain it....
btw, i don't claim to speculate on who or what happened on 9/11.... just asking questions....
but apparently asking questions about our government is a radical idea in your opinion....
one that requires your mockery.
14
@13
Well you got that last part right.
This is an issue that has been investigated ad nauseum and constantly the facts come out not supporting the truthers claims and yet, 8 years down the line, they are still making these silly arguments based on an IDEA that came to a few peoples minds when they watched shaky camera footage on Fox News.
Well you got that last part right.
This is an issue that has been investigated ad nauseum and constantly the facts come out not supporting the truthers claims and yet, 8 years down the line, they are still making these silly arguments based on an IDEA that came to a few peoples minds when they watched shaky camera footage on Fox News.
16
"well watch the video later, then explain it....
Explains what? It shows barely 30% of the structure.
Explains what? It shows barely 30% of the structure.
17
It was the Triumverate! Col. Sanders, The Queen and the Rothschilds! It was all planned out in their secret lair, otherwise known as "The Meadows".
19
I think the truthers and birthers are the same people. I know this is wishful thinking, but I'd hope that our country doesn't have enough retards in it to fill both retarded idea pools. Hopefully we have truthers just moving onto the birther concept and we can continue to ignore the same bunch of assholes.
Too much to ask, I know.
Too much to ask, I know.
20
@19 No, the Truthers are generally the absurd ultra-extreme-far Left. The Birthers are generally the absurd ultra-extreme-far Right.
What we need is a prominent Truther to marry a prominent Birther, Carville-Matalin style. Orly needs some sugar!
What we need is a prominent Truther to marry a prominent Birther, Carville-Matalin style. Orly needs some sugar!
21
@9. Can't watch YT at work. Also can't be bothered. I suggest you take your ideas to http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php… and talk to the people, including structural engineers, there.
22
@20 At some point the absurd ultra-extreme far Left and the absurd ultra-extreme far Right become the same thing.
24
@22, Agreed.
Anarchists and extreme libertarians are pretty much the same exact thing, for example.
Anarchists and extreme libertarians are pretty much the same exact thing, for example.
25
@6, these FNORD are top-secret spy enemies of the FNARF. FNARF brought down all the building with loud humming noise to make FNORD look bad. FNORD in big trouble, FNARF get off scot-free.
27
19, 20, 22, 24 etc.....
you're all making generalizations and stereotyping specific arguments. which is silly. when someone questions something, such as the JFK murder, what has that do with which political idealism someone subscribes to?
i certainly agree that people who call themselves "truthers" are acting fanatical. alex jones is a douchebag, duh. but it doesn't mean that we can therefore ignore the questions that linger about any controversial incident because alex jones or group of "truthers" co-opted a reasonable line of questioning.
(remember, lenin and stalin all co-opted communism as their guise for dictatorship. in essence, they are the ones who dismantled karl marx's credibility in the realm of political thought....)
point is, nobody has explained how WTC7 came down the way it did. and that is a REASONABLE question to ask.
you're all making generalizations and stereotyping specific arguments. which is silly. when someone questions something, such as the JFK murder, what has that do with which political idealism someone subscribes to?
i certainly agree that people who call themselves "truthers" are acting fanatical. alex jones is a douchebag, duh. but it doesn't mean that we can therefore ignore the questions that linger about any controversial incident because alex jones or group of "truthers" co-opted a reasonable line of questioning.
(remember, lenin and stalin all co-opted communism as their guise for dictatorship. in essence, they are the ones who dismantled karl marx's credibility in the realm of political thought....)
point is, nobody has explained how WTC7 came down the way it did. and that is a REASONABLE question to ask.
29
@27, we are dismissing you now because these claims have been made for years and years. Many of us have investigated them and several studies HAVE been done on why WTC7 collapsed. The arguments simply aren't convincing.
Hence why we lump you in with the truther loons.
Hence why we lump you in with the truther loons.
30
@9 why did you use that video when you can see so many other angles of WTC7's massive fire here?:
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_fire.h…
http://www.911myths.com/html/wtc7_fire.h…
31
@30...
ha! that's a one-story fire! do you think they build skyscrapers that can collapse when one floor is on fire?
look at this one... the whole building was completely on fire for 15 hours and the core never collapsed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQ…
@29, mister investigator, please share your explanation of how wtc7 came down like that in 6 seconds with no visible overwhelming damage or fire?
until you do, stop offering me your holy classification of my thoughts.
ha! that's a one-story fire! do you think they build skyscrapers that can collapse when one floor is on fire?
look at this one... the whole building was completely on fire for 15 hours and the core never collapsed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQ…
@29, mister investigator, please share your explanation of how wtc7 came down like that in 6 seconds with no visible overwhelming damage or fire?
until you do, stop offering me your holy classification of my thoughts.
32
@31- So someone hit that building, which was a a replica of WTC 7 with tons of concrete at some point? No? Well then you haven't proved anything.
33
Like I said, old argument. No need to debate it here. Your opinion has been widely discredited for years.
There have been official investigations into why it collapsed. Go to the wiki if you want to learn more.
Not all skyscrapers are built the same. The world is not a series of certainties and the idea that a skyscraper could be severely damaged by a prolonged fire left un fought is certainly within the realm of possibility. Disregarding the crazyness of believing the government is responsible, I don't understand why it seems like an impossibility to you.
There have been official investigations into why it collapsed. Go to the wiki if you want to learn more.
Not all skyscrapers are built the same. The world is not a series of certainties and the idea that a skyscraper could be severely damaged by a prolonged fire left un fought is certainly within the realm of possibility. Disregarding the crazyness of believing the government is responsible, I don't understand why it seems like an impossibility to you.
34
The real reason for all the high-pressure tactics to keep Obama's true mixed-race and true birth certificate squelched is because he shares the same bio-father and I and other "Manchurian Candidates" do. (On the white side)
Former Ministerium Fuer Staasscherheit (Stasi) Master Spy Markus Wolf (A master of false documentation and crafted Legends) had Celiac's disease (He told me), a particular
gift for espionage operatives, and he used his resources to pick
women of the same genetics, in order to create proverbial "Manchurian
Candidates." That he had intended to run on a life-long operation of
the destruction of western capitalism by subversion from within. (See my website)
But I was used by US Agencies in the '70's to lure him to the West, where he was
"Turned," from the East, by placing me in US Army M.I. & sending me to
Germany. He became a "Consultant" for the US since, drawing out the enemy agenda in advance, and drew up the Patriot Act, for example.
Every future Obamamania theme was preempted in advance by the CIA and the Bushes.
A lot of other spies were lured out, too.
Gen. Wolf was gifted in many things, to include applied psychology, and PSYOPS, (He designed many of our anti-war songs - Peter, Paul & Mary...) but his medical expert for personal terror and assassination was apparently a former Nazi SS Munthausen concentration camp Doctor "Death," Aribert Heim.
In retrospect, I can say that my father has had more influence in American Politics over these last decades than has any US President.
But only now can I share my entire genetic "Espionage family" with the world:
http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com
"Telling the truth during times of universal deceit will be a
revolutionary act." George Orwell, "1984"
More...
Former Ministerium Fuer Staasscherheit (Stasi) Master Spy Markus Wolf (A master of false documentation and crafted Legends) had Celiac's disease (He told me), a particular
gift for espionage operatives, and he used his resources to pick
women of the same genetics, in order to create proverbial "Manchurian
Candidates." That he had intended to run on a life-long operation of
the destruction of western capitalism by subversion from within. (See my website)
But I was used by US Agencies in the '70's to lure him to the West, where he was
"Turned," from the East, by placing me in US Army M.I. & sending me to
Germany. He became a "Consultant" for the US since, drawing out the enemy agenda in advance, and drew up the Patriot Act, for example.
Every future Obamamania theme was preempted in advance by the CIA and the Bushes.
A lot of other spies were lured out, too.
Gen. Wolf was gifted in many things, to include applied psychology, and PSYOPS, (He designed many of our anti-war songs - Peter, Paul & Mary...) but his medical expert for personal terror and assassination was apparently a former Nazi SS Munthausen concentration camp Doctor "Death," Aribert Heim.
In retrospect, I can say that my father has had more influence in American Politics over these last decades than has any US President.
But only now can I share my entire genetic "Espionage family" with the world:
http://www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com
"Telling the truth during times of universal deceit will be a
revolutionary act." George Orwell, "1984"
35
The truthers are a lot like the moon landing deniers in that they don't seem to understand basic science. I'm always hearing arguments like, "Well, the fire wasn't hot enough to melt steel." Which neglects that steel loses a lot of strength at temperatures well below its melting point.
@31: The building that burned for 15 hours had a concrete core that helped support it -- and it still partially collapsed. The collapse was limited mostly because of a stiffer "technical level" that held mechanical equipment. The WTC towers were constructed differently.
@31: The building that burned for 15 hours had a concrete core that helped support it -- and it still partially collapsed. The collapse was limited mostly because of a stiffer "technical level" that held mechanical equipment. The WTC towers were constructed differently.
36
@31: There were fires on 9 floors, in the central floor structure where the upper and lower flowers are structurally joined, there was a massive fire that damaged the integrity of the girders that supported the east side of the structure. Debris falling from above slammed into the building, which eventually led to a full structural failure of the girders supporting the east side of the building. The balance of the building was thrown off thanks to the fire and damage from above, and the central core collapsed.
Firefighters were aware of imminent collapse after the building formed a large bulge, too.
FEMA has a report that runs into the hundreds of pages with structural analysis, including analysis of the probability of a controlled demolition (none).
So let's stop being wackadoodles.
Firefighters were aware of imminent collapse after the building formed a large bulge, too.
FEMA has a report that runs into the hundreds of pages with structural analysis, including analysis of the probability of a controlled demolition (none).
So let's stop being wackadoodles.
37
It was nothing more than a passport which belonged to someone who knew Mohammed Atta. It doesn't establish any new data, really.
I'm one of those "nuts" who does believe that elements of the preceding US administration likely had at least foreknowledge of, and possibly a hand in, causing the events of 9/11 to happen. The main reason I started believing this was that "al-Qaeda" was never mentioned anywhere in the news until AFTER 9/11. I got a hold of a bunch of Air Force training manuals which were printed in the years 1999 and 2000, and their material on Terrorism and Terrorist Groups mentioned absolutely no "al-Qaeda", and only had Osama bin Laden mentioned as a sort of footnote, a single sentence that called him the 'son of a wealthy Saud family, who commits acts of terror alone or with a few accomplices". In 2001, after mid-September, suddenly everything was all about this "al-Qaeda" group, and Bush got to have all his wars. It's just massively fishy. When all the stuff about controlled demolition came out, it was no surprise to me at all.
It is sad however how fucked up the 9/11 truth movement became...whether it was a result of agent provocateuring or just people being idiots and assholes because there's a massive propensity for human beings to end up doing this when they're clustered in any sort of hostile group or movement...is something I don't feel I'll ever be able to know for sure. But last I remember seeing, the truther sites were all lousy with backbiting, infighting and really idiotic levels of braggadocio on top of a paranoia-environment that goes beyond what I think makes sense for it to have gone...
The site I used to hang out on, Letsroll.com, is now mostly populated by right wing type nutbars who think Obama's a worse president than Bush, who spend a lot of time comparing "end time prophecy notes" and "spiritual warfare tips"-- and who seem to be enjoying being on the "rebel" side of the fence a lot more than I'd ever have imagined.
More...
I'm one of those "nuts" who does believe that elements of the preceding US administration likely had at least foreknowledge of, and possibly a hand in, causing the events of 9/11 to happen. The main reason I started believing this was that "al-Qaeda" was never mentioned anywhere in the news until AFTER 9/11. I got a hold of a bunch of Air Force training manuals which were printed in the years 1999 and 2000, and their material on Terrorism and Terrorist Groups mentioned absolutely no "al-Qaeda", and only had Osama bin Laden mentioned as a sort of footnote, a single sentence that called him the 'son of a wealthy Saud family, who commits acts of terror alone or with a few accomplices". In 2001, after mid-September, suddenly everything was all about this "al-Qaeda" group, and Bush got to have all his wars. It's just massively fishy. When all the stuff about controlled demolition came out, it was no surprise to me at all.
It is sad however how fucked up the 9/11 truth movement became...whether it was a result of agent provocateuring or just people being idiots and assholes because there's a massive propensity for human beings to end up doing this when they're clustered in any sort of hostile group or movement...is something I don't feel I'll ever be able to know for sure. But last I remember seeing, the truther sites were all lousy with backbiting, infighting and really idiotic levels of braggadocio on top of a paranoia-environment that goes beyond what I think makes sense for it to have gone...
The site I used to hang out on, Letsroll.com, is now mostly populated by right wing type nutbars who think Obama's a worse president than Bush, who spend a lot of time comparing "end time prophecy notes" and "spiritual warfare tips"-- and who seem to be enjoying being on the "rebel" side of the fence a lot more than I'd ever have imagined.
39
33, 35 ,36
why the certainty? you've been convinced by wikipedia or george bush in your line of conviction. and that's silly...
there are many people on both sides of this argument who make great points. @36 in particular makes some good points. but i don't think anybody should go around proclaiming to fully understand what happened.
just as i don't think anyone should go around proclaiming that God exists, just because somebody else told them so.
so, have fun with your ironclad convictions. and be sure to keep on dismissing anyone who questions you.
why the certainty? you've been convinced by wikipedia or george bush in your line of conviction. and that's silly...
there are many people on both sides of this argument who make great points. @36 in particular makes some good points. but i don't think anybody should go around proclaiming to fully understand what happened.
just as i don't think anyone should go around proclaiming that God exists, just because somebody else told them so.
so, have fun with your ironclad convictions. and be sure to keep on dismissing anyone who questions you.
40
Hmmm, whose explanation should I accept for WTC7's collapse?
The ASCE's (American Society of Civil Engineers)? or someone's who's watched a video and thought it looked funny?
That said, the Bush administration was creepy and secretive enough that it isn't at all surprising that these conspiracy theories cropped up.
The ASCE's (American Society of Civil Engineers)? or someone's who's watched a video and thought it looked funny?
That said, the Bush administration was creepy and secretive enough that it isn't at all surprising that these conspiracy theories cropped up.
41
@39, recent studies have shown that people with ironclad convictions enjoy better mental health than people who are uncertain.
42
I was raised on Dr. Dobson, and have just sent him a letter requesting his assistance to help me stop loosing faith in the Christian Church. My Mom respects Dr. Dobson as much or more than any other Christian leader, and she is interested to see his response. I only started learning the truth about the 9/11 attacks last fall. It took me an entire year to convince my own parents to listen to me, and begin reviewing the evidence for themselves. Now that they have thoroughly and objectively taken a fresh look into all the available evidence, they too are now aware of how badly we have been deceived. They now fully support my mission to find out what really happened to 2,993 of our fellow countrymen that fateful September morning. My mom is very interested to see if/how Dr. Dobson will respond. Please read my open letter to Dr. Dobson and share your thoughts at.........
http://blandyland.com/?p=459
Does Christ's Church really stand for TRUTH & JUSTICE? That is the question!
Daniel Edd Bland III
www.BlandyLand.com
http://blandyland.com/?p=459
Does Christ's Church really stand for TRUTH & JUSTICE? That is the question!
Daniel Edd Bland III
www.BlandyLand.com
43
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