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News & ArtsMonday, November 9, 2009
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Should He Finally Meet His "Ex" In Person?
Posted by Dan Savage on Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:14 PM
I am a male 20-year-old college student and I have a dilemma on my hands. In order for you to make an informed response to this question you have to know a little history first.Almost 3 and a half years ago I met someone on the Internet whom I immediately befriended because of our knack of conversing for hours. After about a year of talking on and off we started to become more serious in our conversations. This eventually developed into a relationship, the best I have ever had. I have never been more emotionally satisfied with a relationship before or sense. The only problem was, she lived in Nevada and I in Pennsylvania. After trying to do a long term relationship for a few months, she made it clear she could not be in the relationship any longer because she needed the physical side of the relationship also. I knew this was for the best but it hurt nonetheless.
About 3 months after this break up I found a new significant other who I am still with. The relationship I am in now is great, emotionally, intellectually, and sexually. I could not be happier. But I have started talking again to the ex. She has recently moved and has her own apartment now and I now have the funds to finally open the door to actually meet her in person. We have been discussing a trip because we have wanted to meet for many years but have never had the chance. This creates many problems. My ex and I have discussed how if we were able to meet face-to-face, something will happen. We both still have feelings for each other and we may get overwhelmed given the excitement of actually seeing each other. Hooking up seems like an inevitability.
The rest of the question—and my response—after the jump.
I have no fucking idea what to do. I would love a little help. I feel I can articulate this situation and my feelings of not wanting to leave my current girlfriend to my current girlfriend but given the situation I feel as if she would immediately be very angry and break up with me. This reaction is completely understandable because I would obviously be cheating on her if I hooked up with my ex. I just feel as if I need to gain some sort of closure on the relationship by going through with this trip and actually having what I could not have many years ago. I know all of this is selfish because I just want to have the relationship I missed out on but I can't help to feel that there is something genuine and real there that I need to experience. I guess my question is, should I go ahead and see this ex and go where that takes me? If I was to do this, I feel it would be unfair to not let me girlfriend know about the situation and I would love some help on how I could tell her about this. Let me know what your take on the situation is and any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.What To Do About My Ex
Your ex is not your ex, WTDAME, because your ex was never your girlfriend at all.
I realize that the Internet has changed everything about sex and relationships, WTDAME, but one thing hasn't changed: you're not actually seeing someone if you've never actually seen that person. (And seen them in person—not pics, not cam sessions. IN PERSON, in the flesh.) You had brief and impassioned Internet flirtation with a woman who lived at the other end of the continent—WHEN YOU WERE 16 YEARS OLD. You were not in a relationship, you were not in love. You were typing.
Should you meet this girl in person? Only if you're prepared to risk destroying your current relationship—a great relationship, the best you've ever been in, one that satisfies you emotionally, intellectually, and sexually—for a person you've never met. (I'm going to assume that you've actually met your current girlfriend and that your sexual relationship involves actual physical contact and not just opening a chat window.) Bearing in mind that the odds are slim any woman a boy meets by age 20 is going to turn out to be the love of his life, WTDAME, I actually think you should go meet this woman, assuming she's a woman, in person. It's that or obsess about what-might-have-been all your life. And I don't you need to tell your girlfriend exactly where you're going or exactly why. Tell her you're going to see an old friend. Go and meet this woman and if it turns out—against the odds—that she's the love of your life, and if you two do hook up, break up with your current girlfriend—your first and only girlfriend—when you get home.
But if—and this is the far likelier outcome—you go and meet this stranger and the physical attraction you assumed would be there isn't, WTDAME, make your apologies, say your goodbyes, chalk the experience and the trip up to your youth and stupidity and go home and make it up to your current girlfriend in a thousand little ways.
And this you can do—taking off without being honest about where you're going—because you are young and stupid and you are allowed, this once, to be a deceitful little shit because you need to resolve your curiosity about this other woman, your supposed "ex." You also need to learn your lesson, WTDAME, and I predict the lesson will be this: in future don't risk a good thing—like your current girlfriend—for bullshit reasons.
UPDATE: What about pics? Webcams? I've updated my response—I figured they had exchanged photos. But seeing someone's photos, or grainy webcam sessions, and meeting them and smelling them and inhaling their pheromones and getting a whiff of their breath and BO, etc., is important. He may not be chemically into this woman, however hot he thought her pics were—if they were her pics.
1
Yes he does need to tell his girlfriend where he is going. He knows he wants to hook up with this "ex". He is traveling to see another woman that he most likely plans on sleeping with...and not only that but they have begun to converse online again. If the first time around just conversing online with this woman constituted a relationship then what's the difference now? He's cheating on his girlfriend with his "ex" just by talking to her online, by his definition.
Please don't push people to cheat just because they are "dating" someone. It starts a pattern and what's to stop them when they are married. Best to learn when they are young that if their minds start wandering to other woman while they are in a relationship then it's a possibility there may be some issues in their current relationship and they should look into that before running off to see if they girl they never met was the one that got away.
Please don't push people to cheat just because they are "dating" someone. It starts a pattern and what's to stop them when they are married. Best to learn when they are young that if their minds start wandering to other woman while they are in a relationship then it's a possibility there may be some issues in their current relationship and they should look into that before running off to see if they girl they never met was the one that got away.
3
What he should do is have his best friend deliver a note that reads, "DO YOU WANT TO GO OUT WITH ME? YES or NO?" during recess. If she checks yes, he should totes get back together.
4
I couldn't agree more, Dan. My husband and I met at 16, didn't see each other for 7 years, and then reconnected and took the leap to live in the same state. Sometimes these things work out.
5
@1 He is not cheating on his current girlfriend because he is going to meet somebody.
He has to do more than just meet other people in order to cheat, doesn't he?
He has to do more than just meet other people in order to cheat, doesn't he?
6
OH YOU DARN KIDS WITH YOUR INTERNETS!
Seriously, Dan, as far as I read, he never said he hadn't seen her. Just that they hadn't physically met. Trading pictures, phone conversations, old-school webcams and the like are all a possible factor in their relationship ("relationship" in this case meaning -whatever- connection they had, not your standards for a dating relationship). You're usually a lot better at this advice thing, Dan. Damn.
Seriously, Dan, as far as I read, he never said he hadn't seen her. Just that they hadn't physically met. Trading pictures, phone conversations, old-school webcams and the like are all a possible factor in their relationship ("relationship" in this case meaning -whatever- connection they had, not your standards for a dating relationship). You're usually a lot better at this advice thing, Dan. Damn.
7
@5...he has started talking online with a woman who he had a relationship with, he is thinking of flying to another state to see her, they have discussed that they will most likely sleep with each other once they do see each other and he hasn't said a thing to his current girlfriend about it. He's lying and soon will be cheating on her.
8
OMG, that's hilarious: "I've never been more emotionally satisfied with a relationship before or since"...at age 16 (thanks for doing the math, Dan). What, did they bond over typing about some Emo song? Jesus Christ, this kid is an idiot. True, we are all idiots at 16, but boy am I grateful the internet wasn't around when I was 16 so that the whole world couldn't witness my ridiculousness back then.
10
"You also need to learn your lesson, WTDAME, and I predict the lesson will be this: in future don't risk a good thing—like your current girlfriend—for bullshit reasons."
If you don't think that lying to present girlfriend to go visit a high-school flame qualifies as risking a good thing, what does?
Don't go, idiot. Even if she was a good match for you ten years ago, neither of you is the person you were then, and you didn't even really know her then. Don't go.
If you don't think that lying to present girlfriend to go visit a high-school flame qualifies as risking a good thing, what does?
Don't go, idiot. Even if she was a good match for you ten years ago, neither of you is the person you were then, and you didn't even really know her then. Don't go.
12
@5, no. If he gets on the plane he's already cheating. He's pursuing a romantic relationship outside of his REAL relationship, whether they have sex or not.
It's a terrible mistake to go see this person. You WILL destroy your current relationship, I guarantee it.
It's a terrible mistake to go see this person. You WILL destroy your current relationship, I guarantee it.
13
God, I thought the letter a couple of weeks ago was bad. Listen up, kids: If you're not fucking somebody, it's not a "relationship," nor is that person your "girlfriend." In this case, it's even worse yet - he's never even met this woman. Sheesh.
14
you're 20.
odds are very good you will fuck up your current relationship even if you don't go see miss high school internet crush. the odds are also very good that fantasy woman won't be nearly as great as you think, as well as the odds that you aren't very slick and you'll get busted by your current GF if you sneak around.
man up, tell your GF that you are 20, you have to get your ya yas out, & you can't lie to her about it, let her scream at you and call you a snake, go fuck the idealized internet woman, and when it sucks, come crawling back begging forgiveness. it's the oldest college story in the world.
i give you 50/50 odds she'll take you back.
odds are very good you will fuck up your current relationship even if you don't go see miss high school internet crush. the odds are also very good that fantasy woman won't be nearly as great as you think, as well as the odds that you aren't very slick and you'll get busted by your current GF if you sneak around.
man up, tell your GF that you are 20, you have to get your ya yas out, & you can't lie to her about it, let her scream at you and call you a snake, go fuck the idealized internet woman, and when it sucks, come crawling back begging forgiveness. it's the oldest college story in the world.
i give you 50/50 odds she'll take you back.
15
You got this one right.
Dan, I have an unrelated question for you:
http://questionland.thestranger.com/ques…
Dan, I have an unrelated question for you:
http://questionland.thestranger.com/ques…
16
Or, you know, work out a deal where he can bang the ex as a one-night-only thing, if it comes to that, and if it doesn't at least he had permission to try.
17
What's with this dramatic vacation shit? If your pen-pal want to comes to town, meet in a coffee shop and chat like normal people. And why now, after all this time?
18
I had a similar internet relationship around 18 or so that went off and on for a few years, but ended up being more over the phone than anything.
I eventually met the girl in person a few years after the peak of our talking and it was nice but... eh, it really wasn't as big a deal as maybe I'd built it up as. I drove like 2-3 hours to do it and it was nice but it wasn't the start of any great romance or anything.
All that being said, I agree, he should see her and he'll probably have a similarly mundane experience.
I eventually met the girl in person a few years after the peak of our talking and it was nice but... eh, it really wasn't as big a deal as maybe I'd built it up as. I drove like 2-3 hours to do it and it was nice but it wasn't the start of any great romance or anything.
All that being said, I agree, he should see her and he'll probably have a similarly mundane experience.
19
I'm sorry. I just do not understand how people who have never met can have these all consuming relationships. I think there is something wrong with people who can claim love for someone and not know anything about them. Do you know her real age? Her real name? Her arrest record? Even if she is a she?
Why in the world would you risk everything you have for non-sense. It's so OCD! Forget it. Forget "her".
Why in the world would you risk everything you have for non-sense. It's so OCD! Forget it. Forget "her".
20
@5 ,@7 , @12 Yes, of course if they did something it would be "cheating"....... but meeting other people is not cheating in and of itself.
Please note he is stupid, shallow, young and inexperienced.
And yes Fnarf, it'll ruin his current relationship if they do something. He obviously doesn't care about her or he wouldn't even consider meeting up with an avatar....
Please note he is stupid, shallow, young and inexperienced.
And yes Fnarf, it'll ruin his current relationship if they do something. He obviously doesn't care about her or he wouldn't even consider meeting up with an avatar....
22
I had an long-distance online "girlfriend" when I was 15 or 16. Back then, the internet wasn't as prolific and the only ability I had to see her was one picture that she mailed to me, as in through the post office.
Finally meeting her a year later, everything happened exactly as you said. We met, immediately saw that we had absolutely no attraction for each other despite our repeated declarations of love over the past year, and ended it there. I took away a pretty important lesson: despite all my claims of the relationship being better because of how much we talked, it was worse because of how incredibly little I actually knew about her.
It's almost as embarrassing to think about now as it was then, but I had never had a real girlfriend and no sex advice columnist to listen to and teach me the importance of such things as physical contact and face-to-face time. Good advice, Dan, but I would personally recommend not meeting this girl because of the strong possibility that he's going to regret it.
Finally meeting her a year later, everything happened exactly as you said. We met, immediately saw that we had absolutely no attraction for each other despite our repeated declarations of love over the past year, and ended it there. I took away a pretty important lesson: despite all my claims of the relationship being better because of how much we talked, it was worse because of how incredibly little I actually knew about her.
It's almost as embarrassing to think about now as it was then, but I had never had a real girlfriend and no sex advice columnist to listen to and teach me the importance of such things as physical contact and face-to-face time. Good advice, Dan, but I would personally recommend not meeting this girl because of the strong possibility that he's going to regret it.
23
there is no better time to ruin a "perfectly good" relationship in the hopes of finding something better than at age 20.
in other news: there is no worse time to settle down and assume your current girlfriend is "the love of your life" than at age 20.
in other news: there is no worse time to settle down and assume your current girlfriend is "the love of your life" than at age 20.
24
And that's how I got married to the love of my life, and am in the best relationship I could ever be in.
Those scary internets!
Those scary internets!
25
I work with a woman who was married in her 20s (she's now in her 50s) for about 3 years before her husband died. She tells long, loving stories about how he was the love of her life, the perfect man, hour one true soul mate. To hear her talk, you'd never realize she remarried only a few years later, and has been with her husband ever since. She even refers her dearly departed as her husband, while referring to her current husband by name only. They have had CHILDREN together. Still, she looks back on her first husband and sees perfection. Why?
The man she married is now a memory, he can never forget to call, or leave the milk out on the counter, he's perfect in her mind and memory, he's not real to her anymore. What this kid has is something like that. He met a girl online, they chatted, they talked about their childhoods and their dreams, but they never met. He never had to look at a pimple slowly growing over her nose, or smell her morning breath, or listen to her whine about her brittle hair. He's in a relationship that pales in comparison, though it is much more full than what he had before. He now is with a woman who can't pretend to be afk everytime she's annoyed with him.
That's not to say he didn't have some sort of connection with this girl, but their relationship took place in a fantasy world where you can be whoever you want to be, and arguments are drawn out, with enough time to check a thesaurus. The girl he's with now is a real person, with feelings and flaws.
Frankly, I understand why he wants to jump back into the rose-tinted fantasy, but the reality is much more fulfilling in the long run, and that girl in his arms has stuck there by him through all of his real-world bullshit. If he goes off to fulfill his curiosity and leaves that girl in the dust, he doesn't deserve more than the asci-girl he wants so much.
More...
The man she married is now a memory, he can never forget to call, or leave the milk out on the counter, he's perfect in her mind and memory, he's not real to her anymore. What this kid has is something like that. He met a girl online, they chatted, they talked about their childhoods and their dreams, but they never met. He never had to look at a pimple slowly growing over her nose, or smell her morning breath, or listen to her whine about her brittle hair. He's in a relationship that pales in comparison, though it is much more full than what he had before. He now is with a woman who can't pretend to be afk everytime she's annoyed with him.
That's not to say he didn't have some sort of connection with this girl, but their relationship took place in a fantasy world where you can be whoever you want to be, and arguments are drawn out, with enough time to check a thesaurus. The girl he's with now is a real person, with feelings and flaws.
Frankly, I understand why he wants to jump back into the rose-tinted fantasy, but the reality is much more fulfilling in the long run, and that girl in his arms has stuck there by him through all of his real-world bullshit. If he goes off to fulfill his curiosity and leaves that girl in the dust, he doesn't deserve more than the asci-girl he wants so much.
26
Right on, Dan. He should go meet this girl, have a totally "mundane experience," as IGotKittyPryde put it, and get it out of his system. I think what some of us are missing here is that people fuck up when they're young. You NEED to fuck up now and again when you're young, because those fuck-ups and how you deal with them, teach you valuable lessons. This guy is 20 years old, and he needs space to make his mistakes and learn from them. He make screw up his current relationship, but many, many 20 year olds do not know enough about themselves to know what they want out of a relationship. I was one of them. When I was 20, I was head-over-heels in love with a guy who couldn't have been more wrong for me, and was kind of an asshole. I'd have married him if he'd asked me, and been completely miserable. Thank goodness I got dumped.
27
You know, you're all a bunch of tired old cynics. Yes, I'm a tired old cynic too, but not being a tired old cynic - being young and naive and clueless - is one of the charming things about being 20. Believing that you have met your soul mate over an internet chat room? I think it's sweet. I say go and explore it. You've already got one foot out the door of your current relationship anyway if you're obsessing about this other girl. You're not married. You're not tied down. Follow your heart. If it all turns to custard, well that'll just be part of life's outrageous fortune.
Ps. See what I did there? I quoted Shakespeare, just to show that I'm not completely devoid of romance. You're all lucky it wasn't Romeo and Juliet!
Ps. See what I did there? I quoted Shakespeare, just to show that I'm not completely devoid of romance. You're all lucky it wasn't Romeo and Juliet!
28
I'm definitely pro-closure, but it sounds like WTDAME is hoping this will lead to rekindling their relationship, despite them still living in different states. And sleeping with this "ex", saying goodbye, and going back to his gf just sounds unnecessarily dramatic. I second Dan's advice and predictions.
29
After turning this one over, I think that he should go ahead and meet up with his fantasy relationship, just because of the slap-in-the-face shock he is likely to get when it turns into a disaster. The experience might help him to grow up a little.
Its funny how incredibly difficult this particular situation is to handle for so many people, and I've seen it happen over and over. All the texting, tweets, IMs, e-mails, Facebook pokes, voice chats and pic-exchanges in the world are just being worked into a fantasy-space "story" being created inside your head, where you are busy projecting all kinds of wonderful things onto this "other". When you finally meet face-to-face, ferociously complex subconscious and biological real-world cues are happening, and the outcome of this encounter is mostly out of your conscious control. I suspect that for many people learning this only comes from making a lot of mistakes.
Its funny how incredibly difficult this particular situation is to handle for so many people, and I've seen it happen over and over. All the texting, tweets, IMs, e-mails, Facebook pokes, voice chats and pic-exchanges in the world are just being worked into a fantasy-space "story" being created inside your head, where you are busy projecting all kinds of wonderful things onto this "other". When you finally meet face-to-face, ferociously complex subconscious and biological real-world cues are happening, and the outcome of this encounter is mostly out of your conscious control. I suspect that for many people learning this only comes from making a lot of mistakes.
30
I would advise the kid that he's making a huge mistake even considering the matter. Three reasons: 1) you have to live in the present, not the past, at least for another 40 years, and then you can turn into your bitter grandparents if you want to; 2) you're not the naive, virginal, online nerd that this woman remembers; and, 3) you're not available, not unless you're a huge jerk in an emotionally dishonest relationship now, and it doesn't sound like that.
Besides all that, take a moment to ask yourself why the fuck is she contacting you now, anyway? Just how messed up is her life if she's obsessing on a remote online chatbuddy from 4 years ago? There's a reason they call it "the past." It's over.
Besides all that, take a moment to ask yourself why the fuck is she contacting you now, anyway? Just how messed up is her life if she's obsessing on a remote online chatbuddy from 4 years ago? There's a reason they call it "the past." It's over.
31
WTDAME - Aside from Dan's advice, I'd like to add this:
If the relationship you're in now is "great, emotionally, intellectually, and sexually" and you "could not be happier", then why in the fuck do you feel the need to fuck up this great relationship for a woman you never even met?
Yes, you had great conversations with her, but I'm willing to bet that you're either a selfish asshole who just wants to fulfill the primal urge to fuck this woman, or you're lying about how "great" your current relationship is. If your current relationship is so "great", then where's the urge to fuck around coming from? If you want to blame it on the fact that you're 20 and want to fuck around a bit, then why get in a relationship?
Man up, keep what you have, go meet this woman and keep it platonic for NOW. If shit doesn't work out with your your current "great" relationship, THEN you can try this other woman out - if she's not with anyone else at that time.
If you hurt this "great" woman you're with now, just for some pussy, karma will come back on your ass like the worst boomerang ever.
If the relationship you're in now is "great, emotionally, intellectually, and sexually" and you "could not be happier", then why in the fuck do you feel the need to fuck up this great relationship for a woman you never even met?
Yes, you had great conversations with her, but I'm willing to bet that you're either a selfish asshole who just wants to fulfill the primal urge to fuck this woman, or you're lying about how "great" your current relationship is. If your current relationship is so "great", then where's the urge to fuck around coming from? If you want to blame it on the fact that you're 20 and want to fuck around a bit, then why get in a relationship?
Man up, keep what you have, go meet this woman and keep it platonic for NOW. If shit doesn't work out with your your current "great" relationship, THEN you can try this other woman out - if she's not with anyone else at that time.
If you hurt this "great" woman you're with now, just for some pussy, karma will come back on your ass like the worst boomerang ever.
32
I think Dan's completely right and the crux of it is that if he doesn't meet up with the 'ex', he'll always be obsessed with the 'what if'? Especially at the age of 20 you should explore any important what if's might be out there, lest you have all this regret later on. I'd break down the odds of the encounter as:
80% no real world chemistry at all- they leave at a hearty hand shake
18% minimal chemistry- enough for a make out/poke and they both realize it aint it
2% there's actually something there they should explore
I also agree with Dan to tell the current gf nothing- yes, it's sneaky, but the most likely outcome is that nothing happens, he gets closure, and gets to appreciate how good he has it right now. The current gf, in turn, will definitely appreciate rather his renewed enamor, rather than being with some wishy-washy nitwit who's kinda into her, kinda not which is their current situation..
80% no real world chemistry at all- they leave at a hearty hand shake
18% minimal chemistry- enough for a make out/poke and they both realize it aint it
2% there's actually something there they should explore
I also agree with Dan to tell the current gf nothing- yes, it's sneaky, but the most likely outcome is that nothing happens, he gets closure, and gets to appreciate how good he has it right now. The current gf, in turn, will definitely appreciate rather his renewed enamor, rather than being with some wishy-washy nitwit who's kinda into her, kinda not which is their current situation..
35
i agree with dan... this kid's in love with a notion, not a person. he should go and face the reality. it may work it may not. as for the gf... i agree with dan also. don't go all stupid over this people- he's 20... remember when you were 20? exactly...
36
You're all a bunch of old fools, seriously. Believe it or not, it's possible to connect with someone without meeting them in person. I know the internet is a bis scary devil creation, but we young folk actually know how to use it to meet and talk to other human beings. Is there always the possibility of lies? Yes. Is there the possibility of grand, elaborate ruses spanning months and years? YES. But I think If you chat with, correspond with, trade pictures with, spend hours on the phone with, and share webcams with someone, it's quite possible to form the beginnings of a legitimate relationship there.
You all seem to assume he just chatted to a faceless name in some IRC chatroom and NOTHING else. It's pretty clear to me that he got to know this woman about as well as you can without physically meeting, which is more than you technophobic old fucks seem to think. I agree that they are likely different people now, but you guys are total dickwads for acting like he's stupid and overblown in his perception of their connection.
Dan, I love you, but this was the first time you ever came across as truly out of touch. (You also came off as assholishly condescending, but you're prone to such bitchiness from time to time, so I just ignore it and read the next one.) I dont blame you. You didn't grow up with the internet. I have had it fairly constantly since I was 12. My entire teenage life was spent with access to the internet. If you didn't grow up with it, it isn't as vibrant and real to you.
You all seem to assume he just chatted to a faceless name in some IRC chatroom and NOTHING else. It's pretty clear to me that he got to know this woman about as well as you can without physically meeting, which is more than you technophobic old fucks seem to think. I agree that they are likely different people now, but you guys are total dickwads for acting like he's stupid and overblown in his perception of their connection.
Dan, I love you, but this was the first time you ever came across as truly out of touch. (You also came off as assholishly condescending, but you're prone to such bitchiness from time to time, so I just ignore it and read the next one.) I dont blame you. You didn't grow up with the internet. I have had it fairly constantly since I was 12. My entire teenage life was spent with access to the internet. If you didn't grow up with it, it isn't as vibrant and real to you.
38
Hmm. Not really knowing a person because it's online? Yeah, granted, but I'd say that I know plenty of people in relationships who seem like complete strangers to each other.
People can lie to you in person too. They just lie about different things.
People can lie to you in person too. They just lie about different things.
39
@36, I'll freely admit to being an old fool, but how dare you assume that you know more about the Internet than some of us do. My bill for last month shows that I used 500 GB of data - on my fucking BlackBerry. Don't try to teach your grandfather how to suck eggs.
40
Have the balls to tell your current girlfriend what you're doing. She deserves to know that you're not completely emotionally committed to her. After all, if it's OK for you to fly across the country to meet this woman you think you might have a romantic interest in, it's OK for her to hedge her bets too, right?
If so, then you're being as fair as you can be. If not, you're just another asshole.
If so, then you're being as fair as you can be. If not, you're just another asshole.
41
I had a very similar experience to this kid. In my twenties I had a boyfriend who was basically satisfactory--who at the time I would have described in the magical, blissful terms he uses here--and a guy I'd been conversing with intensely online for years.
Because I was so young, the boyfriend had encouraged me to open up our relationship so that I could experiment before settling down. I had a chance to meet Internet Guy, so I talked over the visit and ramifications with my boyfriend. We met and clicked, although I won't say there wasn't awkwardness at first. Chatting online is not a good way to know if you're going to be able to deal with someone's physical presence and mannerisms. It is, however, a great way to build the communication skills that are crucial to a successful relationship.
When I got back, I broke it off with my boyfriend in the most honest and direct way I know how, but of course I still wish I could have avoided hurting him. Six years later, Internet Guy and I are still going strong.
Because I was so young, the boyfriend had encouraged me to open up our relationship so that I could experiment before settling down. I had a chance to meet Internet Guy, so I talked over the visit and ramifications with my boyfriend. We met and clicked, although I won't say there wasn't awkwardness at first. Chatting online is not a good way to know if you're going to be able to deal with someone's physical presence and mannerisms. It is, however, a great way to build the communication skills that are crucial to a successful relationship.
When I got back, I broke it off with my boyfriend in the most honest and direct way I know how, but of course I still wish I could have avoided hurting him. Six years later, Internet Guy and I are still going strong.
42
@36:
I grew up with the Internet as much as you did, and I think Dan's advice is good. I had several friendships (and at least one "relationship") that were conducted mostly via instant messaging, long emails, and the rare phone call or webcam. Most of these were complete busts in person. The most serious relationship, while deep and moving and personal from a distance, was controlling and creepy when we were in the same place physically.
But I've also met the occasional person online who turned out to be awesome-- my best friend of three years and I corresponded for two months before actually hanging out in person, and my fiancé and I solidified our early relationship and got to know each other better through long, personal emails, though we met in person first.
Someone can be a totally different person online, consistently, than he or she is in Real Life. This is important.
I grew up with the Internet as much as you did, and I think Dan's advice is good. I had several friendships (and at least one "relationship") that were conducted mostly via instant messaging, long emails, and the rare phone call or webcam. Most of these were complete busts in person. The most serious relationship, while deep and moving and personal from a distance, was controlling and creepy when we were in the same place physically.
But I've also met the occasional person online who turned out to be awesome-- my best friend of three years and I corresponded for two months before actually hanging out in person, and my fiancé and I solidified our early relationship and got to know each other better through long, personal emails, though we met in person first.
Someone can be a totally different person online, consistently, than he or she is in Real Life. This is important.
43
I don't know. I fell in love long-distance, for real. I think phone AND pictures are necessary for that experience -- email isn't enough, because people can hide too much behind written words, in a way that they can't over the phone -- but when we met in person, it wasn't any more real, it was just more fun.
A person can LIE. A person can send photos of somebody else. But most people won't actually do that. Most people who meet on the internet are just people who'd rather not hang out in bars. And those people sometimes fail (the first time around the block, before they've discovered the HORRORS of the long-distance relationship) to set firm rules as far as geography.
Anyway. With honestly and self-awareness engaged, I totally disagree about the meeting-in-person being a prerequisite for love and/or an actual romantic relationship.
Are people honest and self-aware at 16? Not usually.
A person can LIE. A person can send photos of somebody else. But most people won't actually do that. Most people who meet on the internet are just people who'd rather not hang out in bars. And those people sometimes fail (the first time around the block, before they've discovered the HORRORS of the long-distance relationship) to set firm rules as far as geography.
Anyway. With honestly and self-awareness engaged, I totally disagree about the meeting-in-person being a prerequisite for love and/or an actual romantic relationship.
Are people honest and self-aware at 16? Not usually.
44
Dan typed: "And I don't you need to tell your girlfriend exactly where you're going or exactly why. Tell her you're going to see an old friend."
It doesn't really work that way in the real world though. The conversation doesn't go like this:
him: Can you take me to the airport next Saturday? I have an 8 am flight.
her: Wow, I had no idea you were going on a trip, where are you going?
him: Gonna see an old friend.
her: OK, cool, have fun!
Er... no. She's going to ask who this friend is, and when she learns it's a woman she's going to be even more curious. So he has to blatantly lie to his girlfriend, either by saying it's a male friend or totally downplaying his intentions with this ex-penpal (I'm guessing his uncomfortable behavior when talking about it will totally give him away), or tell her the truth. I bet he doesn't have the guts to tell her the truth.
It doesn't really work that way in the real world though. The conversation doesn't go like this:
him: Can you take me to the airport next Saturday? I have an 8 am flight.
her: Wow, I had no idea you were going on a trip, where are you going?
him: Gonna see an old friend.
her: OK, cool, have fun!
Er... no. She's going to ask who this friend is, and when she learns it's a woman she's going to be even more curious. So he has to blatantly lie to his girlfriend, either by saying it's a male friend or totally downplaying his intentions with this ex-penpal (I'm guessing his uncomfortable behavior when talking about it will totally give him away), or tell her the truth. I bet he doesn't have the guts to tell her the truth.
45
#40 is right, tell her you're going to scope out a potential replacement so she has the opportunity to play while you're gone. Maybe she has a guy she is crushing on too, and she'd enjoy the chance to see if he's better than you. That'd be totally OK with you, right, isn't that what you're planning to do?
Nah, I still don't think you have the guts to be honest. You're going to sneak around behind the girlfriend's back until you know if she should be dumped or kept around until you feel like checking things out with someone else again.
Nah, I still don't think you have the guts to be honest. You're going to sneak around behind the girlfriend's back until you know if she should be dumped or kept around until you feel like checking things out with someone else again.
46
I think he should go see her. He's just a kid still. Just from what he is saying it sounds like his whole two (or one if you don't count the internet thing) relationships have both been these earth shattering, satisfying relationships. He sounds really inexperienced and slightly naive in love and life, so I think he should go out, satisfy his curiosity and have a good time.
I think Dan's advice was pretty spot on, though maybe he could have been a little easier on the condescending "Its the internet, its not real" perspective. I think it's just easier to understand where this kid is coming from when you're someone who grew up using the internet a lot.
Either way, I hope this kid understands that it's likely that his current girlfriend, and his internet girl are both not the loves of his life. He's only 20. Which is why he should go. Make mistakes and learn from them. Or just have a good time.
I think Dan's advice was pretty spot on, though maybe he could have been a little easier on the condescending "Its the internet, its not real" perspective. I think it's just easier to understand where this kid is coming from when you're someone who grew up using the internet a lot.
Either way, I hope this kid understands that it's likely that his current girlfriend, and his internet girl are both not the loves of his life. He's only 20. Which is why he should go. Make mistakes and learn from them. Or just have a good time.
47
By all means, the next time he's single, go visit the ex flame. But being in a relationship means being in a relationship, you're not available to explore feelings for other people. Break up with your 'amazing sexually and emotionally' gf first, and then see how excited you are to explore things with the old flame now that you're free. I bet it isn't nearly the irresistible appeal it has now, because, you're an asshole.
48
The idea that it's "technophobic" to believe that you've never met people who you've never met is hysterical.
I cannot believe there are still people who haven't figured out that you can't have a relationship -- other than pen-pals -- with anyone you have never met. That is just about the saddest thing ever. You can be intrigued by a pen-pal, you can be fond of a pen-pal, you can even be turned on by a pen-pal. You cannot, however, be a boyfriend or girlfriend to anyone you have never met. No matter how many of your teenage years you spent on your computer.
And it's not about lies, people. It's about reality. As in: the reality is you have never met this person.
If you've grown up with computers and still don't know that, still haven't learned the difference between real life and virtual life, still don't know the difference between theoretical people and actual people (hint: the actual people are actually present in your actual life), then at least have the sense to not be proud of not knowing it.
I cannot believe there are still people who haven't figured out that you can't have a relationship -- other than pen-pals -- with anyone you have never met. That is just about the saddest thing ever. You can be intrigued by a pen-pal, you can be fond of a pen-pal, you can even be turned on by a pen-pal. You cannot, however, be a boyfriend or girlfriend to anyone you have never met. No matter how many of your teenage years you spent on your computer.
And it's not about lies, people. It's about reality. As in: the reality is you have never met this person.
If you've grown up with computers and still don't know that, still haven't learned the difference between real life and virtual life, still don't know the difference between theoretical people and actual people (hint: the actual people are actually present in your actual life), then at least have the sense to not be proud of not knowing it.
49
Aw, dammit. When I read the title, my mind registered "Should He Finally Meet His "Ex" In Prison?" Instead I find insipid, stupid tweener drama. Totally disappointed.
50
Oh grow the heck up! At 20 you may still be young and stupid, but really, shouldn't you be slightly mature? He still sounds 16. Meet or don't. I don't think life hangs in the balance.
PS I married my husband at 20. We're still going strong 9 years later, which is maybe why I think he's a little old for this kind of BS.
PS I married my husband at 20. We're still going strong 9 years later, which is maybe why I think he's a little old for this kind of BS.
51
Good advice, Dan. I was a little worried reading the letter that you wouldn't call Bullshit on the virtual girlfriend thing and I'm glad you did. And I also think he should meet this so-called Ex so he can discover what many of us did when this internet dating thing began -- that there is a real and significant difference between virtual reality and real reality. I still think there's a difference between real friends and facefuck -- er, facebook -- friends, but I know for sure there's a difference (usually measurable in inches) between a virtual lover and a real one.
52
This has already been said, but what the hell.
Don't live with "what ifs." They'll suck you dry. Go into this knowing that there's a chance it'll be wonderful. Go into it knowing there's an even bigger chance it won't.
Go into it knowing you're likely to fuck up your current relationship. Be as ethical to her as possible. Be completely, clearly, kindly, and morally as ethical as you possibly can. And know and accept that Karma is going to bite you in the ass anyway.
But don't live with What If. Meet your Internet romance. Life is damn short, and the best thing we can do for ourselves is make sure that we have as few "what if I'd..." as possible.
But, dude, you're probably going to lose your current girlfriend. I'd feel bad for her, except for the fact that she deserves better than a guy who's pining for "what if."
Don't live with "what ifs." They'll suck you dry. Go into this knowing that there's a chance it'll be wonderful. Go into it knowing there's an even bigger chance it won't.
Go into it knowing you're likely to fuck up your current relationship. Be as ethical to her as possible. Be completely, clearly, kindly, and morally as ethical as you possibly can. And know and accept that Karma is going to bite you in the ass anyway.
But don't live with What If. Meet your Internet romance. Life is damn short, and the best thing we can do for ourselves is make sure that we have as few "what if I'd..." as possible.
But, dude, you're probably going to lose your current girlfriend. I'd feel bad for her, except for the fact that she deserves better than a guy who's pining for "what if."
53
@ 13 Really? So if two people wait before becoming physically intimate for personal or religious reasons or even just maturity levels, they aren't in a relationship? You have to fuck to be sensual and physical with someone? Those first few however many weeks or months don't count because penetration wasn't involved? I agree that seeing people face to face is an important part of a relationship, but I don't think you have to jump right into bed just so you can call someone your boyfriend or girlfriend.
54
I hope to Christ that the jackass who pulled this whole "we've been soulmates on the Internet" thing on me (and flew her into town while we were dating, then broke up with me when she landed), reads this. It was almost nine years ago, but I guarantee you, ex-boyfriend, you sounded just as stupid as this dude. "Our relationship was like Casablanca", my ass.
I hope current girlfriend leaves this dude to his Internet fantasy and finds someone who doesn't find it romantic to be hung up this way for years.
I hope current girlfriend leaves this dude to his Internet fantasy and finds someone who doesn't find it romantic to be hung up this way for years.
56
He's a 20-year-old college kid who's been dating the same girl for three years and loves her and is happy with her but doesn't want to commit to spending the next fifty years with her without ever trying anything/anyone else, which is both normal and reasonable. (The timespan suggests they started dating in high school and have continued well into college, which raises the question of whether this is also a LDR or they made their college choices around each other or what.)
One way or another, he's got to explore something outside of the one current relationship he's in. Some people can marry their high school sweethearts and be completely happy forever never knowing anything else but if he's having thoughts like this he's clearly not one of those people.
One way or another, he's got to explore something outside of the one current relationship he's in. Some people can marry their high school sweethearts and be completely happy forever never knowing anything else but if he's having thoughts like this he's clearly not one of those people.
57
Ahhh, yes. This. I did this. I never tell the story because while I like to be honest about my mistakes, I only have so much appetite for describing in detail just how much of an idiot I was.
58
I support the definitions here that state relationships require face to face in person reality contact- but I take issue with assuming that sex makes a relationship "real"- I mean holy cow- people used to define sex as "penetration" and that would mean lotsa sexually active seriously committed couples aren't even dating in some of your opinions. Just sayin'.
59
It is totally possible to be in love over the internet, and you can define yourself as being in a relationship if you want to. But one this is for sure, an internet relationship sucks compared to a flesh-and-blood-and-cum-and-sweat-and-vaginal fluids-and-etcetera relationship.
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