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Wednesday, November 18, 2009

SL Letters of the Day: Thank-You Notes

Posted by on Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:01 PM

I'm a pretty regular reader of your column, and this week I was looking through the archives for things I'd missed. Two columns prompted me to write and thank you for helping me navigate a difficult situation. The first was a letter from a sex-deprived man essentially begging you for permission to cheat on his wife. He used the acronym LDS, which is of course an immediate indication that he, like me, belongs to that gay-bashing, magic-underwear wearing religion based in Utah. The other was the two-part column on sappy endings, wherein you showed that two people with very different sexual interests can make things work and be happy. ["Sappy Endings," February 15, 2007; "Sappy Endings II," February 22, 2007.]

Lest you misunderstand, I spent 40 years as a participating, card-carrying, self-loathing Mormon, complete with the creepy underwear thing. I'm now 45 and have been out of the church for 5 years, though out of respect for my wife's wishes I haven't formally resigned my church membership. All during those years I suppressed my sexuality to a ridiculous degree. Mormons are terribly sexophobic, with one "prophet" telling us that masturbation inevitably leads to homosexuality. And of course it was a Mormon bishop who explained to me what masturbation was when I was 12 (they don't think twice about having a grown man regularly interviewing young boys and girls behind closed doors about their sexual habits). Needless to say, I grew up with some terrible sexual hangups and fears.

The rest of TFE's letter—and another nice thank-you note that arrived in the mail today—after the jump.

I was a good boy. I never had sex before marriage and swore off masturbation at age 17 because I was told that the Holy Spirit doesn't hang out with wankers. I didn't even have a clear picture of what female genitalia looked like until my honeymoon (and my wife wouldn't look at me below the waist for at least a month). But I knew I was different. By the time I admitted I was bisexual with BDSM interests, I was married with a bunch of kids. My wife asked me if I had any sexual fantasies, and it took a lot of prompting for me to get it all out. Of course, she freaked, being the straightlaced Mormon mom she is, and I regretted telling her at all.

Mormon men are supposed to "preside" in the home (that's such a creepy expression), and women are supposed to be subservient and pop out lots of babies. There's no place for a submissive guy like me in that culture, though I'm sure those issues of unequal gender roles played a big part in developing my sexual interests. At one point, my wife suggested that we speak with our bishop about my "unnatural" desires. You can guess how well that went. But your column helped me realize that I wasn't a freak; in fact, my fantasies are pretty mundane, all things considered. You also helped me to understand that I needed to communicate to my wife that this part of me was important and needed to be expressed. After a lot of talking (and some therapy and marriage counseling), we have reached a really good place in our marriage. She is most definitely GGG (she has her limits, as does everyone), and she finds that she really enjoys seeing me get so much pleasure out of the experience. Of course, I do my best to give her what she needs, and we're both deliriously happy.

I don't have a question, but just wanted you to know that you have made a profound difference in my life. And may I apologize to you and everyone who supports equal marriage rights for ever supporting a destructive and bigoted organization like the LDS church. I have a blog that deals fairly often with my issues with Mormonism, including the two miserable, soul-crushing years I spent as a missionary overseas. So, people can change, and it's good to have people like you to help us.

All my best to you and your partner (that should be spouse, dammit),

Thanks For Everything

Thanks for the nice note, TFE, and I'm glad the column helped. The more Mormon men out there getting their asses beat—safely, sanely, consensually—the better, I say. And here's another lovely little thank-you note that arrived in the mail today...

Listening to your latest podcast, I agree with the caller who says you´ve been sounding a bit down lately. So I thought that I´d write a note to tell you how much I enjoy your podcast and that nearly all of my friends listen to it and enjoy it as well. I'm a Canadian student (21, straight, female) on exchange to Paris right now and having a great time. I have a 45 minute walk to university evey day, and I have downloaded all of the available back issues and I listen to them every morning. It always sets my day off to a good start.

I´m also very happily living the life that is being an exchange student... I have a more serious partner who is in Madrid, so we don´t see each other that often, but it's amazing when we do. Here in Paris I have another boy who I'm beginning to experiment BDSM with (in French, so it counts as studying and being academic) and another possibility who I flirt with in the library regularly. We've got a date planned for this weekend.

So, in essence I'm a slut at the moment and it's awesome. It's slightly messy, because I think most human sexual encounters are, but it's lots of fun. Listening to your podcast for the past couple years has certainly helped me grow up as well. When my best gay friend sent me a link to your column four years I was shocked. I didn't even know that vibrators existed back then! Now I'm being tied up, I can talk dirty in three languages, and I'm having an awesome time. And I think it's probably all due to you. Some might call it corruption, Dan, but I want to thank you for it.

I don't have a question right now, but I was wondering if you could please do another show with Mistress Matisse? That episode is my favorite. [It's SLP Episode 97—click and scroll down.] I walk past 2 convents and a seminary on my way to class, and as I was listening to it for the first time the head nun (abbess?) starting yelling at the younger ones as you two talked about nun-on-nun porn. I cried I was laughing so hard and had to turn down a side street.

Thanks again, please keep up the great work!

K.

 

Comments (33) RSS

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kim in portland 1
Every one deserves a high five, Dan. Glad you got one.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on November 18, 2009 at 4:24 PM
Vince 2
It's a revolution. You're starting a fucking revolution! Hoorah!
Posted by Vince on November 18, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Dingo 3
Yay. I've been watching a lot of the Dan-relatnd stuff on YouTube lately, and even though I don't even live in America, I appreciate everything he does to promote equality for gay people there.
Posted by Dingo on November 18, 2009 at 5:32 PM
Sachi 4
Yep. well deserved. :-)
Posted by Sachi http://web.me.com/thorw/Claire_and_Sachi on November 18, 2009 at 5:38 PM
Dingo 5
And doooo you feeeel the looove toniiiight.... Dammit, where's my lighter.
Posted by Dingo on November 18, 2009 at 5:56 PM
6
Mormons are filth. The only way to deal with them is to look right through them. If a Mormon asks for directions, send them to fucking Timbuktu with a nice friendly smile on your face. Any gay man who remains in that shitty homophobic organization is a self-loathing - well - Mormon. Is there any worse insult than to call someone a "Mormon"? Even "seeping cunt" is a compliment compared to the word Mormon.

It's a beautiful day.
Posted by Mormons Smell Like Satan's Cockcheese on November 18, 2009 at 5:57 PM
KingofQueenAnne 7
"Miserable and soul-crushing" describes my LDS South American mission perfectly.
Posted by KingofQueenAnne http://blingeejesus.blogspot.com on November 18, 2009 at 6:18 PM
emma's bee 8
Well deserved kudos for Dan. Thanks to the letter-writer and an hour of free time, I got schooled on ex-mormon blogs, e.g., http://www.exmormon.org/
Posted by emma's bee on November 18, 2009 at 6:47 PM
emma's bee 9
RE @8: For example, peruse the following fascinating excerpt:

"Mormonism includes many other unusual teachings which you will probably not be told about until you have been in the church for a long time...In addition to those mentioned elsewhere in this article, the following are noteworthy: NOTES
...
God lives on a planet near the star Kolob.

God ("Heavenly Father") has at least one wife, our "Mother in Heaven," but she is so holy that we are not to discuss her nor pray to her.
...
We can become like God and rule over our own universe.
There are many gods, ruling over their own worlds.
...
Jesus Christ was conceived by God the Father by having sex with Mary, who was temporarily his wife.
...
In the highest degree of the celestial kingdom some men will have more than one wife.

Before coming to this earth we lived as spirits in a "pre-existence", during which we were tested; our position in this life (whether born to Mormons or savages, or in America or Africa) is our reward or punishment for our obedience in that life.

Dark skin is a curse from God, the result of our sin, or the sin of our ancestors. If sufficiently righteous, a dark-skinned person will become light-skinned.

The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. All humanity before the Great Flood lived in the western hemisphere. The Ark transported Noah and the other survivors to the eastern hemisphere.
...
Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow.

Mormons should avoid traveling on water, since Satan rules the waters.

The sun receives its light from the star Kolob.

If a Gentile becomes Mormon, the Holy Ghost actually purges his Gentile blood and replaces it with Israelite blood.
A righteous Mormon will actually see the face of God in the Mormon temple.

You can identify a false angel by the color of his hair, or by offering to shake his hand. "
More...
Posted by emma's bee on November 18, 2009 at 6:56 PM
10
Battlestar Gallactica was based on Mormonism (Kolob or Kobol; the twelve tribes +1, us;?), and Glen Larsen (creator, with a lower-case "c") lives/d in Bountiful. That's my one BSG trivia point.

Mormons are crazy, relentless, and persuasive.

Why do you never take the Bishop fishing alone? He'll drink all your beer.
Posted by Jamie_J on November 18, 2009 at 8:20 PM
seandr 11
"I agree with the caller who says you've been sounding a bit down lately"

Well, I would certainly have some down days if I had to deal with all the trolls and haters that you do.

If you are feeling bummed out, you should know that there is a certain genius to Savage Love (both the concept and the execution), and unlike most people who punch the clock at some meaningless job, you actually get to do something that helps people.
Posted by seandr on November 18, 2009 at 8:22 PM
12
I'd love to know the URL for TFE's blog, if anyone should know it or find it.
Posted by watty on November 18, 2009 at 9:08 PM
sugar2s 13
Love. I'm joining those letter writers in sending it your way. Thanks for all you do.
Posted by sugar2s on November 18, 2009 at 9:55 PM
14
@12: TFE asked me not to share his blog's URL here. If anyone should find it, please don't post it to Slog, per TFE's request.
Posted by Dan Savage on November 18, 2009 at 10:00 PM
15
Here's another ex-Morm chiming in: thank you from the bottom of my heart for improving my sex life so fantastically. My ex-Mormon missionary husband thanks you too. Keep doing the good lord's sexy work. I don't give a fuck what The Prophet would say about it--your place in heaven, assuming it exists, is assured.
Posted by katallred on November 18, 2009 at 11:01 PM
16
Yay Dan! You've made an *immeasurable* difference in my sex life, too. You completely rock. Keep up the good work.
Posted by laurelgardner http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5877570 on November 18, 2009 at 11:41 PM
17
11
It is hating, not being hated, that destroys ones spirit.
It is what we harbor and nurture in our own heart that determines what we are and how we feel.
Posted by Soaring Spirits on November 19, 2009 at 5:34 AM
tjc 18
@9: "Christ will not return to earth in any year that has seen a rainbow. "

Well, no wonder the Mormons hate the gays. We're single-handedly preventing the return of Jesus through our showing of rainbows.

And society's use of lawnsprinklers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIYZvr3ue…
Posted by tjc on November 19, 2009 at 6:09 AM
tjc 19
Also, Dan -- Based on your title, I thought the topic was going to thank you note etiquette after sex. You know, when should you send a thank you note after sex.

Do you thank only the host of a 3 way or also the other guest; do you thank a sub involved in a BDSM scene or does that break the role; should a top thank a bottom and/or vice versa; how do you handle feeling bad about forgetting to thank someone whose name you don't know or remember, etc.

All these questions that Miss Manners simply refuses to answer!
Posted by tjc on November 19, 2009 at 6:16 AM
attitude devant 20
Ahhh Jeez, Dan, ARE you down? One of the problems with your job is you don't get the positive feedback that comes to people who have jobs like Kim's and mine. We see the difference we make every day. Seeing our clients thrive sustains us when others are just hateful to us.

So let me add to the chorus: you are doing real, important work here. Seriously! You are making a HUGE difference in people's lives. Unfortunately in this culture all the great ones (Kinsey, Sanger, you) attract all kinds of craziness---don't let it get to you!

My Rx for you: go watch the last interview in "Kinsey" again, the one with the middle-aged lesbian in San Francisco. Watch that three or four times. Multiply what she says to him by, I dunno, a couple hundred thousand times:

"But everything HAS changed, dear man. Everything has changed, thanks to you."
Posted by attitude devant on November 19, 2009 at 6:45 AM
21
Can someone please explain the "magic underpants" thing to me? I don't know what that is, and I'd love some enlightenment. :)
Posted by Nikki in MN on November 19, 2009 at 8:41 AM
emma's bee 22
@21: from those who should know (see link@8):

"If you prove yourself to be faithful, hard working and obedient, you will eventually be considered worthy to "receive your endowment" in a Mormon temple. You will not be told in advance exactly what to expect in this lengthy ceremony, except that the details of the ritual are secret (Mormons prefer to say they are just "sacred," but they treat them as though they are secret). As part of that ceremony you will be required to swear a number of oaths, the penalty for violation of which is no longer stated but until 1990 was death by various bloody methods, such as having your throat slit from ear to ear. You will be given the secret signs and passwords which are required to enter heaven. (Although most Mormons who have not received the endowment know very little about the ceremony, the entire liturgy is now available on the Internet to Mormon and non-Mormon alike.) After receiving the endowment you will be required to wear a special undergarment at all times. "
Posted by emma's bee on November 19, 2009 at 8:54 AM
attitude devant 23
Oh, Nikki, you poor naive thing. Mormons are supposed to wear sacred "garments" under their clothes at all times. They are sort of a modified union suit---probably had some utility on the frontier. To your eye, they would look like very dowdy white cotton t-shirts and long-legged boxers. Incredibly ugly--kind of baggy and lumpy.

They are the source of much hilarity within and without the church. You'll often hear Gentiles (non-Mormons) talk about VGL's (visible garment lines), as in: "Well you can tell HE still drinks the Kool-Aid; look at his VGLs!" Sometimes you can find them for sale on E-bay, but devout Mormons try to snap them up ASAP to keep us Gentiles from getting our hands on them.

Good source (the best, in fact) of info about the LDS---Fawn Brodie's bio of Joseph Smith, "No Man Knows My History." As fascinating read, and since it's winter where you are, you have the time for it.
Posted by attitude devant on November 19, 2009 at 8:55 AM
24
I've been debating whether or not to give out my blog address, bwhat what the heck. I think I was just concerned that some of the Mormon folks who have harassed and attacked me will just get further ammunition. But who cares? Thanks again, Dan. My blog is at runtu.wordpress.com. TFE
Posted by runtu on November 19, 2009 at 9:47 AM
emma's bee 25
Thanks for your bravery, runtu/TFE! Esp. given the nature of possible punishments, as outlined in the excerpt @23.

You are a mensch.
Posted by emma's bee on November 19, 2009 at 9:51 AM
26
@24- you are a brave man. And Dan, may I second, or third, or hundredth the above- you help people, more people than you will ever know.
Posted by C from Mass. on November 19, 2009 at 11:56 AM
27
I hadn't thought about the "penalties" from the temple in a long time. I can't believe I used to think such stuff was normal.
Posted by runtu on November 19, 2009 at 1:42 PM
28
Thanks for explaining. As a non-Mormon, I had no idea that's what they believed. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Posted by Nikki in MN on November 20, 2009 at 7:17 AM
29
BTW - Why are men allowed to take several wives in the Mormon religion, but women can't have more than one husband? Is it really that sexist a religion? And if so, why don't more people question it and leave? There are several religions out there where women aren't treated as nothing more than a maid service / baby factory.
Posted by Nikki in MN on November 20, 2009 at 7:47 AM
30
Yes, it is that sexist of a religion. Properly speaking, polgyny is not practiced currently, but Mormon scripture says that polygyny will be practiced in the hereafter, at least if you're a faithful Mormon. Polyandry is out, though, except for Joseph Smith, who happily fucked married women without the knowledge or consent of his wife or their husbands.
Posted by runtu on November 20, 2009 at 9:20 AM
31
Was Joseph Smith such a suave and charismatic stud that people would just blindly follow him? I don't understand why someone (much less the many thousands, possibly more) would buy the stories he told. Is it just blind faith since it's all they heard practically from birth? Do a lot of Mormons just not think for themselves? I'm trying to understand what the appeal is. I read a few testimonials from ex-Mormons who started questioning their religions, and it makes me wonder if people are just told not to question things or if they just aren't speaking out.

I know there are other religions out there who discourage questions or just answer with "it's God's will, ours is not to question why" and other blather non-answers like that. Are mormon kids fed the same stuff?
Posted by Nikki in MN on November 20, 2009 at 11:28 AM
32
That's an excellent question. I really can't answer for why the early Mormons were so attracted to Joseph Smith and his new religion. I suspect it's just that they were looking for something like that, and he came along and gave it to them. But that's just a guess.

Anyway, why don't people question? It's complicated. For starters, there is a long tradition within Mormonism of distrusting any information that doesn't come from the official church. Anything critical is labeled "anti-Mormon" and is considered dubious and dishonest at best. So, most people don't really dig very deeply into the religion past the stuff that is pounded into them every day in church and at home. But I think it goes deeper than that. Mormonism isn't just a practice or a community; it is a way of looking at the world, so everything you see and do is filtered through a Mormon lens. I hope I'm OK linking to this, but I wrote about this on my blog a while ago (http://runtu.wordpress.com/2009/10/01/tr…). Maybe that will help you understand a little.
Posted by runtu on November 20, 2009 at 2:26 PM
33
Pretty funny how little integrity any of you have. You ex-mormons are sad excuses for people. Who gives up 2 years for something they don't believe in? You want to blame the LDS church because you don't choose to stand up for what you do or don't believe in? Give it a rest. YOU are responsible for your life and the way you feel about things. Everyone likes to blame others for their perceptions and feelings. GROW UP.
Posted by Buhrandone on December 3, 2009 at 2:10 PM

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