Here's another conversation about Don't Ask, Don't Tell between a gay guy and an active-duty service-member. (I had a similar conversation with my brother earlier this week.)
Jon Brock, an intern at The Stranger, had a conversation over Facebook chat the other day with a friend, Chris, who's a 2LT in the United States Army Reserve. They've known each other since middle school. Chris is stateside now, but he was previously an enlisted soldier deployed to Iraq in 2004 and 2005, stationed in Nasiriyah. He's a conservative, a college graduate, and he's been in the Army since 2001. He has consented to having his thoughts published.
The text of this chat is unedited, though it begins midstream. It's after the jump.
Chris
Frankly, I understand both sides of the argument. But the reasons that this policy are in place is to keep unit cohesion and not deter from the mission. There are many homosexuals serving in the military and with distinction. It is no different if you worked at a law firm or were public figure, you're personal life has no place in the work environment.
there are similar polices for police departments/fire. which have the same reasoning
8:00 pmJon
can you name some? i'm interested into verifying that information.
and if someone worked for a law firm, they would not be fired if they mentioned, in whatever manner, that they were homosexual. unless, of course, the person responsible for hiring/firing has a personal issue with it, and decides to fire the person.
8:02 pmJon
and, forgive my ignorance on unit composition, but if you and your unit were on a mission, would you fall apart if you knew one of your fellow soldiers was gay? or a lesbian?
8:03 pmChris
law firm bad example. but in public/government agencies, your personal life really does not have a place
8:04 pmJon
you could say that of any job. that one is suppose to leave their personal issues at home. however, people in public service are not being fired because they are gay. the exception being the military.
8:04 pmChris
unit cohesion/composition can be affected by numerous thigns. which could include someone talking too much about their homosexuality. or the same way that a heterosexual would talk about fucking some other guys wife
8:05 pmJon
so you just admitted that it's indistinguishable. a straight guy talking too much about fucking some girl is just as bad as some guy talking too much about fucking a guy. right? but there is no law in place preventing that heterosexual male from serving.
8:05 pmChris
and it is very different issue in the military with people living together. not many jobs require you to live with strangers
in some cases it is indistinguishable
8:06 pmJon
i understand that aspect. but again, could you not sleep at night if you knew the guy one bunk over was gay?
that would imply that one has the ingrained notion that we're predatorial.
if a gay guy is in the military, he's there for a reason. and it is not to make passes on other guys.
8:07 pmChris
i personally would be fine. BUT there are cases where homosexuals have made advances to guys. this is not cool in an all male environment
8:08 pmJon
have there been instances where male soldiers have made advances on women soldiers? would that be cool for those in an all female environment, if separated that way?
8:08 pmChris
There are fraternization policies for male/female which prohibit this kind of action
thats where the dont ask dont tell policy kinda falls under
you can have relationships with other members of the military if they are not in your direct chain of command/ and or unit
8:09 pmJon
the downside to that is that it is attempting to work as a discretionary advisory, but instead it acts as a basis for immediate termination.
8:11 pmChris
another aspect to this is safety. it sucks that it has happened. but gays who come out in the military have gotten hurt. obviously the people were punished
this also happens outside the military
8:12 pmJon
then that matter needs to be addressed directly, not by further dehumanizing us and pushing us out of the military.
that makes us the perpetrator, not the victim.
8:13 pmChris
its hard to explain but there some serious policies in place on the subject of fraternization, talking about personal stuff, sexual orientation
8:13 pmJon
that's the classic "well, if she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have dressed like that" argument.
8:14 pmChris
even a heterosexual who talks about inapproiate topics have been fires
fired
8:14 pmJon
yes, but for their action, not just BEING of a different sexual orientation.
okay, i have to go, so i will give you the last remark.
8:15 pmChris
i understand that. and you can be homosexual in the military, you just don't tell people. i know it sucks but it thats how it is and it's their for legit reasons to keep everyone happy and not force homosexuals out
i just don't like it when gays think that they have no right to be in the military when in fact they do
8:16 pmJon
i understand the point you're trying to make, i think it is more sympathetic than other conservatives would argue, but i still disagree. thank you for the lively debate.
8:17 pmChris
your welcome. until next time
8:17 pm
