Slog
News & ArtsFriday, July 16, 2010
At Large They Blow Up Buses, Don't They?
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:40 AM
I was a little nervous about getting on this bus yesterday in SF—and I'm thinking the wealthy "conservative gadfly" behind these bus ads doesn't actually use public transportation.
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Dan? Why were you getting on a SamTrans bus? Were you headed down the Peninsula? If you were going someplace in the City, you'd be on a MUNI bus.
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Ugh, looks like this website (www.refugefromislam.com) is at least slightly connected to the rabidly anti-Muslim Pamela Geller who does the Atlas Shrugs blog -- her book about Obama's secret war on America is prominently featured on it, at least. http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/
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It makes me kind of happy that three of the world major religions, Islam, Catholicism, and Apple all have massive public relations problems.
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Yes, they blow up buses. And anything else they can get their slimy little shit-stained hands on. Fuck, cockroaches are a higher lifeform.
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@5, but they have since they began, and here they still are, so don't count on those free iPhone repairs just yet.
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@9, Yes, they do. They being fundamentalist Islamic nuts. Just like they, crazy evangelical nuts, hate the gays and they, republicans, fuck up the country.
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You should ride Muni instead of SamTrans. Never a dull moment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx6FRSemW…
Hopefully I will see you around town while you are here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx6FRSemW…
Hopefully I will see you around town while you are here.
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Speaking of rabid Islamic extremists...
The FBI warned Seattle cartoonist Molly Norris on Tuesday to beware of the death threats made against her by a radical cleric associated with al-Queda.
The FBI warned Seattle cartoonist Molly Norris on Tuesday to beware of the death threats made against her by a radical cleric associated with al-Queda.
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I saw a similar billboard in Waco, Texas that said, "Are you questioning your sexuality?" followed with "Call our helpline, we're here to save you!" Fear tactics work, every ad you see is probably preying on fear of - or desired indulgence in - one of the seven deadly sins. Everyone needs a hobby, its just too bad that some people's hobbies include spending inordinate amounts of money to spread hatred and bigotry.
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Hey, I'm not on here every day like a lot of you guys.
Anyway, besides being less able than Christian extremists to take criticism of their holy dude, Muslim extremists (and probably even some not-so-extremists) also seem to become much more apoplectic when someone leaves, or wants to leave, their religion.
Anyway, besides being less able than Christian extremists to take criticism of their holy dude, Muslim extremists (and probably even some not-so-extremists) also seem to become much more apoplectic when someone leaves, or wants to leave, their religion.
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I guess I didn't get the memo that says it's cool for liberals to hate Muslims.
Aces.
I know we're allowed to hate Catholics (well, not really, just the clergy, all other Catholics are 'victims' or something).
So who's next, Jews? Or do they get a pass or something?
Aces.
I know we're allowed to hate Catholics (well, not really, just the clergy, all other Catholics are 'victims' or something).
So who's next, Jews? Or do they get a pass or something?
20
I don't hate Muslims—and I don't hate Catholics. My mother was a Catholic, and I ran and got her a priest when she needed one. But this liberal does hate murderous Islamic extremists—and right-wing Fundy Catholic bigots too. Hate 'em. Those ultra-conservative Jews who hate the gays and threatened to set off bombs at a gay pride parade in Israel? Hate 'em.
You know, I think it's okay for liberals to hate the enemies of liberal democracy, liberalism, pluralism, etc. Intolerance is always wrong—except in self-defense.
You know, I think it's okay for liberals to hate the enemies of liberal democracy, liberalism, pluralism, etc. Intolerance is always wrong—except in self-defense.
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19 I guess I didn't get the memo that says it's cool for liberals to hate Muslims.
Because there was no such memo. Being critical of intolerant members of a religion -- whether it's Islam, Christianity, Judaism or some other -- is not the same as hatred for all believers.
There are many Muslims who are peaceful, kind, loving people. In fact, the great majority are. Unfortunately, it's a religion that also seems to spawn the most rabidly intolerant and violent adherents.
It's not just Muslim extremists hating Christians and Jews. Even within Islam, you have hatred between groups (e.g. the Sunnis & Shiites) Back in May, six men affiliated with the Pakistani Taliban (who are Sunnis) killed more than 80 members of minority Muslim Ahmadi sect -- attacking them in mosques -- because they don't consider them to be true Muslims. For all of their intolerance, you don't see fundamentalist Christians slaughtering Mormons in their temples because they don't see them as true Christians.
Because there was no such memo. Being critical of intolerant members of a religion -- whether it's Islam, Christianity, Judaism or some other -- is not the same as hatred for all believers.
There are many Muslims who are peaceful, kind, loving people. In fact, the great majority are. Unfortunately, it's a religion that also seems to spawn the most rabidly intolerant and violent adherents.
It's not just Muslim extremists hating Christians and Jews. Even within Islam, you have hatred between groups (e.g. the Sunnis & Shiites) Back in May, six men affiliated with the Pakistani Taliban (who are Sunnis) killed more than 80 members of minority Muslim Ahmadi sect -- attacking them in mosques -- because they don't consider them to be true Muslims. For all of their intolerance, you don't see fundamentalist Christians slaughtering Mormons in their temples because they don't see them as true Christians.
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Well said, Dan. You are totally right.
You know, I think it's okay for liberals to hate the enemies of liberal democracy, liberalism, pluralism, etc. Intolerance is always wrong—except in self-defense.
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Extremist Muslims (who seem to usually be Sunnis, in particular Wahhabis) also hate Muslims who are Sufis.
In yet another attack on a Sufi shrine, two suicide bombers struck a hugely popular mosque in the old city, killing at least 44 people and leaving more than 200 wounded in the country's cultural centre, Lahore. Thursday night's attack on the Data Gunj Baksh shrine dedicated to a ninth century Sufi saint follows the Taliban attack on Ahmedis last month.
Although no one has yet claimed responsibility for the attack, Taliban militants and their Punjabi jihadi allies have targeted such shrines in the past and have openly threatened the Sufis, whom they consider heretics.
Terrorists, who are wedded to the ultra-orthodox Wahabism, have struck repeatedly in Lahore, Rawalpindi and Islamabad ever since the "clean up" of Lal Masjid, according to Pakistani intelligence sources. The Taliban are violently opposed to any form of shrine worship, even if it is by Muslims.
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I don't know what is more ridiculous - the poster on the bus or the idea that the poster makes the bus scary because of all the Muslim extremists running around Seattle blowing up buses with posters that offend them.
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18/nicole: Apostasy is a crime punishable by death in Islam.
Yep. I'm sure fundamentalist Christians don't like seeing Christians convert to another religion but they don't go batshit crazy about it like extremist Muslims do. Take the case of Egyptian Mohammed Hegazy, who converted from Islam to Christianity in 1998.
Can you imagine Pat Robertson, as fundamentalist (and crazy) as he is, declaring that the U.S. government should give a Christian who has converted to Islam three days to reconvert and then kill him if he refuses?
Yep. I'm sure fundamentalist Christians don't like seeing Christians convert to another religion but they don't go batshit crazy about it like extremist Muslims do. Take the case of Egyptian Mohammed Hegazy, who converted from Islam to Christianity in 1998.
Sheikh Gad al-Ibrahim told Al-Quds al-Arabi that "The Egyptian government should find Mohammed Hegazy and apply shari'a, giving him three days to reconvert and then killing him if he refuses". Sheikh Youssef al-Badri and Souad Saleh, a professor at Egypt's al-Azhar university where Egypt's top Islamic scholars work, agreed with Al-Ibrahim, openly challenging statements by Egypt's second highest religious authority last month that 'apostasy from Islam' should not be punished in this world.
Can you imagine Pat Robertson, as fundamentalist (and crazy) as he is, declaring that the U.S. government should give a Christian who has converted to Islam three days to reconvert and then kill him if he refuses?
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@26: I agree, but I think that fundie Christians in the USA refrain from calling for people to be killed (usually) because this country has the resources to easily track down people who make death threats inside its borders.
A lot of majority-Muslim nations aren't quite as good on that front.
A lot of majority-Muslim nations aren't quite as good on that front.
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venomlash, it's not because we have resources to track death-threat-making people down and Egypt doesn't. I doubt that Sheikh Gad al-Ibrahim issued his statement from a hidden cave. It's because it's very likely not a crime for a sheikh (or iman or anyone else) to call for someone's death for apostasy or heresy.
Let me put it another way. If fundie Muslims had their way in Egypt, I have little doubt they would cheerfully kill Muslims who converted to Christianity. If fundie Christians had their way in the U.S. no way do I believe they would kill Christians who converted to Islam.
Let me put it another way. If fundie Muslims had their way in Egypt, I have little doubt they would cheerfully kill Muslims who converted to Christianity. If fundie Christians had their way in the U.S. no way do I believe they would kill Christians who converted to Islam.
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Saw one of these in Chicago last weekend, but the text was different. It said (I think): "HONOR KILLING? Is your family threatening you? Leave Islam Safely." And directed to www.leaveislamsafely.org - they must have bought up several domain names. Also, It was atop a cab, which was extra weird because I would think there's a decent number of Muslim cab drivers here. At the time, I thought to myself, 'surely fearing one's family and wanting to leave a religion are separate issues-- the vast majority of American Muslim women don't fear honor killings, right?'
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I'm going to agree with, Roma. And, it is my opinion based off of my experience of being: shunned, damned to hell, called a heritic, closet atheist. Of course all I did was change denominations. *Shrug* For the most part I am invisible now, essentially a non-believer in their eyes.
But there has been rumblings in South Bend, Indiana about the un-real Christians, Porn, Homosexual Agenda, etc. by some group that believes they are defending "citizen values". But no death threats that I am aware of.
But there has been rumblings in South Bend, Indiana about the un-real Christians, Porn, Homosexual Agenda, etc. by some group that believes they are defending "citizen values". But no death threats that I am aware of.
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Thanks Kim. Another example of the degree of difference in extremist Christian vs. extremist Islamic actions is the infamous "Piss Christ" photo by Andres Serrano. A lot of Christians were outraged by that and I've no doubt that Serrano got some death threats. But he wasn't killed.
On the other hand, Theo van Gogh, who directed the film "Submission", which was critical of Islam's treated of women, not only got death threats but was murdered by a Muslim, his throat slit while walking in Amsterdam.
Christian extremists = angry German Shepherds that will bite you. Islamic extremists = rabid pit bulls that will maul and kill you.
On the other hand, Theo van Gogh, who directed the film "Submission", which was critical of Islam's treated of women, not only got death threats but was murdered by a Muslim, his throat slit while walking in Amsterdam.
Christian extremists = angry German Shepherds that will bite you. Islamic extremists = rabid pit bulls that will maul and kill you.
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I can't believe they can do this on a bus... personally if that's legal, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't put ads condemning Prop 8 (or would that be too controversial??..)
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Oh, spare me the "Our fundie Christians are much better" speech. Fact: Much of the Islamic violence is perpetrated and funded by Wahhabis. Another fact: Wahhabi sect is a very young one and is started by the British in Arabia, and being currently supported by the US. Are you going to deny that the Saudis are the US allies, while Saddam's Iraq is blown to pieces. I'm sure you're aware that Saddam was not a religious extremist by any stretch. He had one wife, and just like his daughters, she dressed in Western style. Women in Saddam's Iraq had rights, unlike the women in US ally Saudi Arabia.
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And you have one thing right; some religious douche can issue a death threat against an apostate in Egypt or Pakistan and get away with it, but try that in Turkey or Bosnia, he'll find his ass in jail in no time.(All of those being predominantly Muslim countries.) Just like a Christian fundie in Rwanda or I don't know Nigeria can try and kill an former Christian for converting to whatever. The deciding factor here is, in those countries where religious (and all other sorts of) freedom is hijacked, the law and basic human rights are hijacked too. There's no functioning judicial system and people are free to bully each other or worse.
As much as I dislike Islam, just like I do the rest of the religions, I have to point out that it's not the core of the problem here. The same crazy shit is out there, in Bible and Torah. It's the lawlessness of those countries that turn your garden variety bully into a murderous sheik. And that lawlessness was(and still is) actively supported by the Western countries like US, France and UK. Why? I think it's the same old "divide and conquer" thing. And the money involved.
As much as I dislike Islam, just like I do the rest of the religions, I have to point out that it's not the core of the problem here. The same crazy shit is out there, in Bible and Torah. It's the lawlessness of those countries that turn your garden variety bully into a murderous sheik. And that lawlessness was(and still is) actively supported by the Western countries like US, France and UK. Why? I think it's the same old "divide and conquer" thing. And the money involved.
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And finally, please don't be so naive to think that you own religious fundies are above violence. How do you explain the slayings of doctors working at abortion clinics? Now imagine, for a minute, that your country is hijacked by a group of those fanatics and the moderate population is terrorized into submission. That is exactly what happened and currently happening in a lot of Muslim communities. My credentials? I used to be a moderate Muslim girl growing up in a Muslim country with a loving and open-minded family. Today I feel less than safe when I go back to my country with my current views. And the reason I left Islam? Because I can't possibly believe God(Or Allah, or whatever) would allow this to happen to those majority of Muslims who are being terrorized every single day.
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Hey, takes.a.hike, it's great you wrote in. Your voice is distinct here, and much appreciated. Also, you get an Official Infidel Fistbump™ from me. Ready or not, here it comes:
*BUMP*
*BUMP*
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thank you, takes.a.hike and misha vargas! as a persian, i feel like westerners always think ALL middle easterners are crazy and just want to blow everything up or something. and then dan says he only hates extremists (which, duh, i hate too), but started the whole thing off with "they blow up buses, don't they?" which implies that muslims of all varieties and sundries blow up buses. just talk to your friendly local middle easterner to learn more :)
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