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Monday, November 1, 2010

That Woman Is Not Making Comics in Order to Be Sexually Attractive

Posted by on Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 2:37 PM

Some comments by cartoonist Kate Beaton and a cartoon by Gabby Schulz about the relationship between female cartoonists and their male fans has caused the requisite commenter shitstorm on the comics nerdblogs. Here's the opening of the comic:


But you should read the whole thing. And then you should wonder at the terror of the masculine comics boards unleashed upon a female cartoonist who dares to suggest that they might be sexist: For example, it only takes a few comments before someone breaks out the old "Can’t we go back to a time where everything didn’t have to be so PC?"-argument. The response to that one is pretty good:

And yes, I too wish we could all go back to a time when people of privilege could use pejorative words that applied to other people with less social power as freely as they liked without anyone raising an eyebrow. Truly, that was a golden era if you were white and straight and Christian and a guy, and totally awesome because you didn’t have to think about the implications of your slurs.

Eventually, they had to close down the comments thread because "we’re having to delete more comments than we are actually letting through." It's unfortunate that the argument centers around one 'compliment'—"I want to marry you and have your babies"—because there's a billion directions this conversation could go.


Comments (68) RSS

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Fnarf 1
Well, you have to admit, the chick in that comic is pretty hott.

But really this boils down to "people are crazy". The artist is right on, but in a world where he who yells loudest wins, what did you expect?
Posted by Fnarf on November 1, 2010 at 2:53 PM · Report this
alithea 2
if it was an issue of "people are crazy" and not an issue of sexism, you would have the same issue when the genders are reversed. however, female fans of comics do not react the same way or with the same frequency to male cartoonists.
Posted by alithea on November 1, 2010 at 3:03 PM · Report this
brandon 3
Geeks are homophobic, misogynist assholes?! Who'da thunk it!

Most straight male geeks are only geeks because they were picked last at baseball and had knack for Dungeons and Dragons, not because of some moral superiority, as they would have you believe. Their single-mindedness can be so extreme that they never bother to question their beliefs, much like the dumb christian jock in high school.

They are opposite sides of the same white privileged male coin. Considering that, the homophobic taunts on Xbox live and the demeaning of women on blogs makes a whole lot more sense.
Posted by brandon on November 1, 2010 at 3:04 PM · Report this
alithea 4
also i cannot get over how much the reaction from that comic is ... exactly what is taking place in that comic.
Posted by alithea on November 1, 2010 at 3:14 PM · Report this
Fish Wrench Asteroid 5
I get it, but it's a little bit sex-phobic.

Being talented and smart and artistic makes you sexier. It's not sexist for a straight guy, albeit and idiot straight guy to be sexually attracted to a woman because she does something cool.

Maybe he's a jerk for being so blunt about it, but it's not sexist to want to fuck someone because you like what they do.
Posted by Fish Wrench Asteroid on November 1, 2010 at 3:14 PM · Report this
Baconcat 6
@2: This

I'd wager girlgeek reactions to gender issues in comics are waaaaaaaay better (and sometimes involve near-photorealistic homoerotic art)
Posted by Baconcat on November 1, 2010 at 3:15 PM · Report this
Ziggity 7
As a man who frequently pledges to undergo radical insertive uteroplasty and marinate in the appropriate hormone cocktail to reach the fertility conditions necessary to bear Lindy West's children, the above arguments leave me both ashamed and regretful for my recent non-refundable down payment to that Bolivian surgeon.
Posted by Ziggity on November 1, 2010 at 3:22 PM · Report this
Fish Wrench Asteroid 8
@2 What about rock groupies? Straight male musicians don't have a hard time getting fucked by straight women.
Posted by Fish Wrench Asteroid on November 1, 2010 at 3:23 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 9
You think this is bad, you should see what they let thru on the PI, Times, and WaPo boards.
Posted by Will in Seattle on November 1, 2010 at 3:28 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 10
Women make comics like this, where men make comics like this.

It's funny because it's true.
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on November 1, 2010 at 3:29 PM · Report this
Yes, white straight christian guys are always "people of privilege". Stupid cunt.
Posted by catsnbanjos on November 1, 2010 at 3:36 PM · Report this
TortoiseTurtle 12
No more gender trolling, you sons of bitches at Slog! Doesn't anyone remember the civil war from two weeks ago?

Before you post, some bullshit about equality or rights or something, just stop, breathe deeply and find the courage to walk away.

Hey Paul, 9/11 probably didn't go down exactly the way the government said it did. Can I get a full-blown article about my insanity now? That's the kind of trolling you're good at.
Posted by TortoiseTurtle on November 1, 2010 at 3:38 PM · Report this
Joe Szilagyi 13

however, female fans of comics do not react the same way or with the same frequency to male cartoonists.

Not to be a smart ass, but I've seen girls fawn over Geoff Johns. Maybe it's his fixation on rings.
Posted by Joe Szilagyi on November 1, 2010 at 3:40 PM · Report this
Suppose a straight, nerdy guy who posts comics on the internet has a Facebook page with only a few dozen friends - all dudes. Try as he might, girls are just not into him. But one day he wins the lottery and suddenly the internet marriage proposals roll in from dozens (if not hundreds) of women. Isn't the straight nerd being objectified in exactly the same manner as comic girl? Isn't it really about seeking out what the other person have to offer, even if that other person is trying to get attention for something else?
Posted by montex on November 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM · Report this
alithea 15
@8 im not sure i get your analogy. yes, women are socialized to seek validation through sex or attention, often through males with some sort of status, like a musician or a comic book artist.

but... perhaps its because women know better than to offer up unsolicited, tasteless "compliments" especially in the context of somebody's craft. groupies don't approach male musicians and out of nowhere say, "i want to fuck you!!!!!!" without some sort of context. but then again, women receive daily doses of unwanted unwelcomed sexual attention so they tend to be a bit smarter about boundaries and context.
Posted by alithea on November 1, 2010 at 3:47 PM · Report this
Fistique 16
Dudes are trying to be progressive and anti-sexist when they say they want to have your babies, though, right? And that's why they react so defensively when women say that actually, they do mind after all?
Posted by Fistique on November 1, 2010 at 3:48 PM · Report this
Dee 17
Although I somewhat agree with Kate (and the other female comic artists) on the broad point at hand, the original 'offending' comment was SO not sexist. The "have your babies" thing is a well-used phrase, it is not trying to elicit sex, nor is it praise based only on looks/gender.

I'm female and I've used it many times as a compliment toward men, for various reasons. To like something someone has produced SO MUCH that you would bear their children because of it is obvious hyperbole about how much you like that thing. Not how much you want to bone the person who made it.

I also think that women who go on to use such small (perceived) insults as a jumping point into an argument about "the possibility that perhaps... women could be treated a little more like, you know, humans" really aren't helping the feminist cause. That kind of reactionary, bitter and overgeneralized response really doesn't help distance feminists from the typical stereotypes. It's like when PETA loses their shit over someone killing a beetle, and vegetarians everywhere collectively sigh.
Posted by Dee on November 1, 2010 at 3:48 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 18
@13 is correct.

It's a fairly common reaction from all fans to writers, comic artists, and everything.

And musicians too.

Regardless of gender.
Posted by Will in Seattle on November 1, 2010 at 3:49 PM · Report this
alithea 19
@11 please learn how privilege works because ... yes they are.
Posted by alithea on November 1, 2010 at 3:49 PM · Report this
"I want to have your babies" is different from "I want to fuck you." The first implies that you want to have kids Just Like Him, which is a pretty nice compliment -- and doing the heavy labor of childbearing is kind of a big favor to a guy. The second implies that he just wants to get off. There's a big difference in aggression level and attitude between "use me!" and "I want to use you!"
Posted by Susan on November 1, 2010 at 3:56 PM · Report this
Fistique 21
Let's also not conclude that, because women are oppressed by sexism, they always act commendably. Some women are just gonna be inappropriately sexually aggressive and freak poor Trent Reznor out. That's a fact.
Posted by Fistique on November 1, 2010 at 4:00 PM · Report this
Jason Baxter 22
Kate Beaton's great. Her story in the last issue of Marvel's "Strange Tales II" was a delight.
Posted by Jason Baxter on November 1, 2010 at 4:03 PM · Report this
Delishuss 23
Hooray, the Slog threads are gonna go the way of Gabby's comic and comment board! How predictable. @20, if the comment makes the artist uncomfortable, is it really worth parsing over the implications of the terminology? Having kids involves fucking, ya know. The sexual objectification is implicit.
Posted by Delishuss on November 1, 2010 at 4:05 PM · Report this
wingedkat 24
Eh, I don't think its sexist or uncomplimentary to say "I like what you do so much I want to have your babies" whether you are male or female addressing a male or female. I've known lots of people who say that, male and female, gay and straight.

I think Shulz made a pretty funny comment about what happens when people online talk about sexism though, from the female point of view.
Posted by wingedkat on November 1, 2010 at 4:08 PM · Report this
The point is that a guy telling a girl "I want to fuck you." isn't really a compliment. If he's hetro and she isn't a hunch-back or anything of course he wants to fuck her.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on November 1, 2010 at 4:18 PM · Report this
Fnarf 26
@2, the category of "men are sexist" is subsumed in the category "people are crazy". The statements are not in opposition. White comics dudes are sexist nimrods BECAUSE they are people and therefore crazy and offensive. If you are looking for enlightened, un-sexist dudes, you probably shouldn't be looking on the internet, and certainly not in anyplace comics-related.
Posted by Fnarf on November 1, 2010 at 4:27 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 27
@25 yeah, but sadly, he probably thinks it IS a compliment.

At least it's not K/S fanfic.
Posted by Will in Seattle on November 1, 2010 at 4:27 PM · Report this
Fish Wrench Asteroid 28
@15 I don't think it's only validation through sex. Women can be horny, and want to fuck guys because being good at something and being popular makes you more attractive.

I think I'm confused because if a guy said he wanted to fuck me because he liked my comic, I would think that was awesome. But I'm a guy so I don't live in the same sexual-political circumstances. I can definitely see how it would be threatening and/or discouraging.

I would never say anything like that in that context in person or online because it would be uncouth.
Posted by Fish Wrench Asteroid on November 1, 2010 at 4:28 PM · Report this
@ 5 is correct.

I'm hoping one day that even progressives will discover women are the equals of men and not delicate flowers to be protected from the cruel world.

Then they'll stop impeding equality as badly as the conservatives are.
Posted by True on November 1, 2010 at 4:40 PM · Report this
The only important point here is what Jason said @22 -- Kate Beaton is fantastic and anything that gets her comics more attention is therefore good.
Posted by Peter F on November 1, 2010 at 4:46 PM · Report this
uh, I think the thing to focus on here is not "how dare someone say 'I want to have your babies'" but perhaps more of a "why didn't he just say 'oops, my bad' when she said she didn't care for the statement?"
Posted by tal on November 1, 2010 at 5:18 PM · Report this
uh, I think the thing to focus on here is not "how dare someone say 'I want to have your babies'" but perhaps more of a "why didn't he just say 'oops, my bad' when she said she didn't care for the statement?"

I mean, when I say stuff that other people take offense to, and I didn't mean to offend, I apologise.
Posted by tal on November 1, 2010 at 5:18 PM · Report this
dammit, my first double post.

Posted by tal on November 1, 2010 at 5:19 PM · Report this
bhowie 34
I think the point is that when a guy is good at something/does something cool/is funny he is received first and foremost for what he DID. When a woman does it she is often/usually/always received as a WOMAN first and foremost before being recognized for the accomplishment. The added insult to injury is that women, in a patriarchal society, no matter what they do or who they are, are made to feel like they are constantly being sized up for their possible (or actual) sexual objectification. White men have the privilege of receiving merit for their actions alone, and the reason so many do not understand her irritation is because they've never had to face any feelings otherwise.
Posted by bhowie on November 1, 2010 at 5:20 PM · Report this
This comic is sexist. Seriously.

There's a good broad point to be made here, but this comic is a terrible argument for it.
Posted by supergp on November 1, 2010 at 5:32 PM · Report this
@32 FTW.
Posted by gavastik on November 1, 2010 at 5:42 PM · Report this
DeaconBlues 37
The comic, while accurate, is not very helpful, since it is also breathtakingly sexist.
Posted by DeaconBlues on November 1, 2010 at 6:27 PM · Report this
I always wish more dudes would spend some time thinking about the context that these kinds of responses come from before they get mad because they feel yelled at. There's a whole person and life behind that comic (and Kate Beaton's comments), and they're lady people/lives. Their experiences with sexual compliments are probably different from yours, if you're a guy. So dudes who think, "But I love it when gals tell me they wanna fuck me," please be reminded of the whole lifetime of sexual compliments that most women have received. One dude saying he wants to have your babies or fuck you does not an angry lady make. But dudes saying that stuff to you your whole life? Maybe Mr. One-Millionth-Sexytime-Compliment gets yelled at. And maybe he should just deal with it. Or even apologize, knowing that it's not all about him. (Or maybe he just inspires an awesome comic that's funny and well-drawn and makes a ton of peeps on the internet very, very happy.)
Posted by annabee on November 1, 2010 at 7:44 PM · Report this
wingedkat 39
Tal @32,

Who knows, he may have apologized.

Since these are public forums and discussions, he very well could have apologized, while other people took up the flame of indignation.
Posted by wingedkat on November 1, 2010 at 7:49 PM · Report this
This thread is so great I want to have ALL your babies.
Posted by Just a thought on November 1, 2010 at 9:26 PM · Report this
Seeing Kate's comics made me want to have tea with her and listen to her talk about Canadian history.
Seeing pictures of her made me want to have her babies.
Posted by paulus on November 1, 2010 at 9:52 PM · Report this
zivilisierter Wurm 42
I've yet to be in a room which contained: 1+ female, and a reference to Neil Gaiman, without some mention of his hotness and/or wanting his babies. It's not like women are somehow above the abstraction of creative talent to beauty: if genes selecting for moodiness and anomie weren't considered attractive, there would be a whole lot fewer artists generally. This isn't to say, I don't see a problem-relationship between the internets and misogyny: comments propositioning women for their talent are crude, in the very least. And I can imagine it's fairly insulting to have people constantly insinuate that something you worked hard to craft is predicated on something totally irrelevant. But I've been to any number of concerts where a woman asked and received some famous boob-signature; they seemed happy at this turn of events, and I can only presume the bassist of Franz Ferdinand was too. Clearly, in some circumstances getting attention for creative endeavors makes everyone happy.

Is the issue then with the about boundaries? A woman has every much a right to find Neil Gaiman sexy, as I have, say, to think Sylvia Plath was a hottie. I wouldn't have sent her a letter explaining exactly how this makes me want to fuck her - but it's probably too late for that now, and illegal anyways.
Posted by zivilisierter Wurm on November 1, 2010 at 10:00 PM · Report this
zivilisierter Wurm 43
In the end, I see this more like cat-calling than some deontological debate over whether sexual attraction is a priori debasing to the artist: it's the idea that anytime and anywhere, a man can choose to define the personal boundaries of a woman regarding her beauty.
Posted by zivilisierter Wurm on November 1, 2010 at 10:17 PM · Report this
Posted by dwight moody on November 1, 2010 at 11:36 PM · Report this
43 = yes. It's the lack of boundaries on the part of male fans that makes them feel like an appropriate response to a talented female artist is "it is so sexually attractive to me that you are talented" that's at issue here. I understand that in colloquial terms people are often not good at separating the languages of love/admiration/lust/approval/desire to own and keep/etc. But people ought to take a moment to THINK about how they are phrasing their compliments.

You see this same shit coming up with talk about cat-calling, exactly. Guys will get all riled up and say "But I would never say something disgusting or threatening to a woman!" Well unfortunately dudes, other men will. There's a reason why we ladies get our guard up when a guy says "HEY LOOKIN GOOD", it's because we never know if he is one of the ones who will berate us for ignoring him, try to grab us, follow us for the next 10 blocks, etc. Maybe Kate Beaton has often been stalked online by dudes who start out by making sexualized compliments like "Have my babies"?

This shit is just not as innocuous as you think it is, guys. It would be great if we lived in a world where you could just toss out whatever "edgy, funny, sexy" compliment you wanted, entirely devoid of the context of a world in which women are constantly evaluated according to our appearances to the exclusion of our other qualities - and in which there is a fine line between an appreciative smile and a predatory leer. But we don't live in that world. So check yourselves before you creep out your favorite lady comics creators (&c.) please.
Posted by planned barrenhood on November 2, 2010 at 3:54 AM · Report this
Independent of the message, the annoying thing about this cartoon is that any attempt to disagree with its premise will be declared to be evidence that it's correct. It's an impressive rhetorical trick, I guess.
Posted by Morosoph on November 2, 2010 at 8:44 AM · Report this
femwanderluster 47
UH...Y'all do know that Gabby is a DUDE, yes?…
Posted by femwanderluster on November 2, 2010 at 8:59 AM · Report this
femwanderluster 48
A white, cis-gender (I'm only assuming straight because it's not mentioned otherwise).

I wish more SLOG guys were as aware as Gabby is.
Posted by femwanderluster on November 2, 2010 at 9:01 AM · Report this
femwanderluster 49
A white, cis-gender (I'm only assuming straight because it's not mentioned otherwise) MAN.

I wish more SLOG guys were as aware as Gabby is.
Posted by femwanderluster on November 2, 2010 at 9:01 AM · Report this
This is incredibly stupid. When you create art and make it public, you open yourself up to all sorts of comments and reactions. Don't go public if you can't handle it. And there's nothing wrong with finding creativity and talent incredibly sexually attractive. So attractive that you don't even think, you just express how you feel. And this happens to men and women.

I'm also baffled by the title. "making comics in order to be sexually attractive"? No one thinks that's her primary motivation for making the comic; it's just that making the comic does in fact make her more sexually attractive. Still, the guy in the comic does need to work on his approach.
Posted by BlackRose on November 2, 2010 at 10:52 AM · Report this
@31-33: Yes, thank you. If anyone tells me something I said (like a compliment) kind of makes them uncomfortable, in a nice, polite way, I'd apologize and refrain from saying that thing to them. Not a big deal.

I too am aware of the general harmlessness "I want your babies", but again, I don't see saying it to someone as my complete and utter right.

This isn't only a sexual thing; it's a general fame thing. A lot of people have easy boundaries when it comes to accepting various forms of adulation; some people feel uncomfortable having to learn how to deal with hundreds of internet-stranger fans, and need a certain level of decorum to cope.
Posted by Gloria on November 2, 2010 at 10:58 AM · Report this
Let's take another example.

Chick drummers and bass players. Hot, right?
Posted by pffft on November 2, 2010 at 12:20 PM · Report this
@50: There's nothing wrong with expressing your discomfort or asking for some courtesy.

"So attractive that you don't even think, you just express how you feel."

I don't get it. So, because Kate Beaton's fans feel pure emotion, it's OK for them to express it the way THEY want, but when Kate Beaton wants to respond in a way based on HER pure emotion, it's her not being able to "handle" the situation.

She did handle. She handled by responding to the comment, and sharing her position. "Handling" is not, by definition, just accepting a situation. That a person says to her "I want your babies" is not some kind of absolute truth of the cosmos or scientific fact of nature that she can't fight; she can ask them not to say that, and that is her right.

Also, when you're a fan and offer YOUR commentary, why don't the same strings attach? If an author offering her work to the public has a responsibility to respect some fans' tics and quirks in expressing their sexual attraction, maybe those fans should try to consider her tics and quirks if they love her so much. They are, after all, benefiting from free entertainment; they owe her as much as she owes them.
Posted by Gloria on November 2, 2010 at 12:45 PM · Report this
schmacky 54
I'm confused. Haven't women been clamoring for decades to be desired for something besides their looks? This guy is into her simply because he digs her as an artist. What the hell is sexist about that? It's anti-sexist, actually. If he said something like, "I like your cartoons, but your hot ass makes me want to screw you!" that would be sexist.

Besides, as others have stated, expressing admiration for a person's accomplishments and/or abilities with sexuality is a time-honored tradition for women toward men. Is that sexist now too? Or is it only sexist when it's the other way around?

I don't get it.
Posted by schmacky on November 2, 2010 at 4:36 PM · Report this
Fistique 55
@54, you are confused. Women have been clamoring for decades to be treated like humans, not to be sexually desired in new ways.
Posted by Fistique on November 2, 2010 at 5:45 PM · Report this
@54: "Is that sexist now too? Or is it only sexist when it's the other way around?"

I dunno, is it too hard to judge on a case-by-case basis? An individual basis?

Am I supposed to be defining my personal comfort level by what other women have been doing? Am I ruining the women's united front!? Oh shit. Sorry! Is there a number I should call and check to see if something is sexist before I can feel uncomfortable?
Posted by Gloria on November 2, 2010 at 6:54 PM · Report this
Aussie Steve 57
Ahem, I am straight, male, of European ancestry and I like comics. I am not sexist, racist or homophobic. I'm not the only one.

That is all.
Posted by Aussie Steve on November 2, 2010 at 8:11 PM · Report this
I think what this article is missing is that Kate Beaton didn't just tell said dude that she didn't like his compliment, end of story. She told him she didn't like his compliment, and then he tried to mansplain to her how she was all wrong, and how she should like it. Then, an internet pile-on happened, like it usually does; Gabby Schulz's comic is oversimplified and exaggerated in its depiction, but in terms of tone and implied meaning, he's not that far off.

That said, I think that Gabby Schulz's comic is representative of a larger trend than just the incident between Kate Beaton and some random internet fan. It's more about a larger internet trend, where someone denies that a sexist comment is sexist, and then uses the opinions of their sexist allies (male and female) to back them up.
Posted by The_Koots on November 2, 2010 at 8:48 PM · Report this
Lugh 59
Children, children,children.

This can all be understood by a simple review of the two most fundamental facts regarding the human condition:

1) Men are pigs.
2) Women are psychotic.

Here endeth the lesson.
Posted by Lugh on November 2, 2010 at 9:03 PM · Report this
@55 said:

Women have been clamoring for decades to be treated like humans

But being sexually desired for any reason (appearance, accomplishments, whatever) IS being treated like a human.
Posted by pffft on November 2, 2010 at 9:26 PM · Report this
Big Sven 61
If you base your happiness on the rationality/appropriateness of anonymous internet comments, you are guaranteed to be disappointed. Whoever you are, regardless of how cool your arts/ideas are.

People. Are. Dumbfucks.
Posted by Big Sven on November 2, 2010 at 10:52 PM · Report this
loosenut 62
@19, not if they're illiterate, Canadian, fat, poor, mentally ill, blind, deaf, alcoholic white straight male Christians. There's a lot of ways to be marginalized.
Posted by loosenut on November 3, 2010 at 2:34 PM · Report this
uh, are we sure that it's a guy that made the initial comment?

According to the links, the original comment was "I want to marry you and have your babies", which is a comment I see a lot on livejournal, particularly in fanfic communities. It's generally said by women, to women, as an indicator of how awesome they believe the fanfic/post/art/whatever is. It's generally meant to be complimentary, and I've never heard a man utter it, since they lack the appropriate equipment to carry babies. Hell, the very phrasing suggests that the person saying it possesses a uterus. It was invented as a phrase that was explicitly meant to be used by women and complimentary of women.

I'm not saying that she doesn't have a point, or that sexism doesn't negatively impact female creators, but, yeah. Maybe she should have looked up the phrase first.


Posted by Staoge06 on November 3, 2010 at 7:21 PM · Report this
@63: I'm male, and I say "I want to have your babies" as an expression signaling humorous, exaggerated appreciation for someone. It's not just for women, any more than you can only say it to a man.

It's more than a little silly to compare this kind of appreciation to a catcall or sexual harassment. If the artist has a problem with it, she has the right to ask her fans not to use it, and they should respect her wishes, but it's not some sort of universal standard, nor is it an example of sexism.
Posted by BlackRose on November 4, 2010 at 8:21 AM · Report this
femwanderluster 65
If anyone is interested, here is a follow-up response from the comic, Gabby, who is, again a GUY! He also happened to go to the Center for Cartoon Studies in White River Junction, VT with my older brother. Gabby is one kickass guy!

Posted by femwanderluster on November 4, 2010 at 2:43 PM · Report this
femwanderluster 66
To quote the man, Gabby, himself:

"Most of all, thank you for replicating and thus validating my own comic’s meager thesis to an exponent higher than anyone could have ever deliberately orchestrated. If anyone out there was concerned as to the general health of sexism, misogyny, and general denseness in our world today, hopefully this chunk of pixels may stand as proof that, yeah, actually, that stuff is out there, doing its creepy, hateful, jurassic dance of dumb."
Posted by femwanderluster on November 4, 2010 at 2:51 PM · Report this
femwanderluster 67
And to quote again:

"BUT ALSO, I am very happy to report that these comments are also chock full of real-life dudes who actually, vocally are down with the concept that women are humans! This is an assurance I, for one, could not possibly hear enough, these dark, post-feminist days."

Me, either! If you're out there, I'd LOVE to know where just such guys are in Seattle. They certainly seem far and few between.
Posted by femwanderluster on November 4, 2010 at 2:57 PM · Report this
schmacky 68

Thank you.
Posted by schmacky on November 4, 2010 at 4:05 PM · Report this

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