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Friday, May 6, 2011

SL Letter of the Day: One Word

Posted by on Fri, May 6, 2011 at 4:06 PM

In your response last week to "Classy Lady", you told her that "a woman who is pregnant and has decided to have an abortion should tell the guy who knocked her up about the pregnancy and her decision to abort...unless she sincerely believes...that the guy is gonna bully, badger, and/or be violent toward her in an attempt to prevent her from choosing abortion."

I'm a 21-y.o. female dating a 26-y.o. guy who has 6 kids by 5 different women (one of whom passed away a month after giving birth), and in explaining to me how these kids came about, he mentioned that none of the pregnancies were planned (at least three of them happened only after one sexual encounter) but that he is adamantly against abortion and would refuse to allow a woman to abort his children. He has mentioned to me several times throughout the course of our (four-month) relationship his desire for me to stop taking my birth control pills, insisting that being with me makes him feel ready to start a family and that our child(ren) would be the only ones that he wanted to have. Are these red flags? I mean, he is a great father, has been through a lot in his life to the point where I would understand how he has made destructive &/or inadvisable choices in his past (his youngest is 3), and as time goes on he seems more comfortable confiding in me and opening up to me about his life.

I wish that was the only contentious issue; a couple of days ago, he brought me to his apartment (which I had never been to before and where his most-recent baby-mother and their child are staying since she just moved back to town). A couple of times before he brought me over he asked me if I would be willing to have a threesome, which is something I am not entirely opposed to if the conditions were right. But then he told me it would be with this baby-mother because she is bisexual and he trusts her and wouldn't want to bring just anyone into our relationship. I was entirely opposed to this and feel as though I made it clear to him. However, later that evening and into the next morning, she basically cock-blocked us and then they both passively propositioned me the next morning, as he grabbed both of us to him and she asked me whether I was down or not. I missed many opportunities to speak up or ask her to leave us alone, and also shut down a couple of times when he asked me what was on my mind because I wanted to speak to him at length in private. I wonder if they have been fooling around in the week or so that they have been staying together and whether this was orchestrated behind my back the whole time, or whether I can even trust him in spite of all that we have been through and our normally great relationship/communication. I also haven't heard from him since.

I know this whole thing might sound ridiculous but I really need a dose of reality and perspective that I hope you are willing to provide to me, even if you don't print this.

Too Heartbroken and Confused to Think of a Clever Acronym

My response after the jump...



Comments (133) RSS

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Jesus monkey fucking christ.

Run fast.
Posted by catballou on May 6, 2011 at 4:09 PM · Report this
Dan, you should recruit for Amway. You'd make a fortune.
Posted by doceb on May 6, 2011 at 4:10 PM · Report this
ha ha...She won't run, though. She's real real dumb, and that's what happens to real real dumb. That's why she's with this guy...because she's basically retarded.
Posted by PugilistPuck on May 6, 2011 at 4:11 PM · Report this
balderdash 4
This has to be fake. No one is that stupid - or at least no one who is smart enough to use birth control and write to Dan.

Run the fuck away. Just because you should have done it months ago doesn't mean it's too late.
Posted by balderdash on May 6, 2011 at 4:11 PM · Report this
rockshrine 5
I've met guys like this. Here's some simple steps to resolving this issue.
1. Run
2. Block his number
3. Tell friends and family about the situation for backup, just in case.
Posted by rockshrine on May 6, 2011 at 4:13 PM · Report this
Fifty-Two-Eighty 6
Oh brother. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, just get the fuck outta there.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty on May 6, 2011 at 4:13 PM · Report this
piminnowcheez 7

The only way my advice would differ from Dan's is three extra words and an exclamation point:

Oh my God, run!
Posted by piminnowcheez on May 6, 2011 at 4:13 PM · Report this
Sargon Bighorn 8
FAKE. Women can't be that dumb.
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on May 6, 2011 at 4:13 PM · Report this
T 9
How the fuck do people this stupid make it to 21 in the first place?
Posted by T on May 6, 2011 at 4:15 PM · Report this
kitschnsync 10
Holy crap. DTMF past-haste.

Off-topic: You were excellent at the Solid Ground luncheon today, Dan. Most affairs like that trot out a couple of speakers with tearjerker stories, with the goal of "inspiring" you to fork over lots of cash. This isn't always a bad thing, of course, but it does sometimes feel manipulative... And it certainly gets old.

You were funny and direct, and the IGBP story is truly inspirational in that it shows one can make big difference in the lives of others without a lot of money. Sometimes a single Youtube video is all it takes! Noble deeds have a snowball effect.

(I probably shouldn't use "snowball" in a SLLOTD thread to describe noble deeds, but there it is.)
Posted by kitschnsync on May 6, 2011 at 4:16 PM · Report this
rockshrine 11
She isn't necessarily dumb. This guy most likely played the "I'm a sweet guy stuck who has had some bad luck with women" card. She becomes emotionally attached, and BOOM!

In comes the abuse and cruelty.
Anyone can fall for it.
Posted by rockshrine on May 6, 2011 at 4:22 PM · Report this
Great advice. Run. What is there to hang around for? Are you a glutton for punishment ... or maybe for baby #7? Then you'll be tied to him for 18 years, along with 5 (or more) other women. Imagine that nightmare!
Posted by peace 2 you on May 6, 2011 at 4:23 PM · Report this
Callie 13
Obviously, DMTMFA (as fast as humanly possible). Also, to the first point in the letter, please watch Law and Order SVU's most recent episode which guest stars Uncle Jesse. I mean John Stamos. If I remember correctly, detective Olivia Benson called it "reproductive abuse."
Posted by Callie on May 6, 2011 at 4:24 PM · Report this
"This guy most likely played the 'I'm a sweet guy stuck who has had some bad luck with women' card."

Except SIX children with FIVE women by age 26 makes this an immediate and obvious lie

She's dumb and he targets dumbs
Posted by Reader1 on May 6, 2011 at 4:26 PM · Report this
Honey. You are 21 years old. You have your whole life ahead of you. If your best friend came to you and said "so I'm dating this guy who has six kids by other women, is vehemently anti-choice, wants me to have his baby, oh and wanted me to sleep with him and his ex," what would you say? I know my answer would be "get the fuck out or I will MAKE you." Seriously.

Getting into this relationship may or may not have been a mistake; staying in it definitely will be.
Posted by KayElle on May 6, 2011 at 4:26 PM · Report this
Three word follow-up:
Don't look back.
Posted by RDM on May 6, 2011 at 4:28 PM · Report this
I'm curious how that other woman died, a month after giving birth. Violent death, maybe?

I was also struck by the LW's tendency to blame herself for the apparent "miscommunication", saying "I missed many opportunities to speak up or ask her to leave us alone."

Finally, she should learn the meaning of the word passive. Passive is her not telling the asshole and his live-in to fuck off. This is NOT passive: "both passively propositioned me the next morning, as he grabbed both of us to him and she asked me whether I was down or not."

Posted by EricaP on May 6, 2011 at 4:31 PM · Report this
One wonders what the fuck her father did to her.
Posted by pox on May 6, 2011 at 4:33 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 19
@ 4, 8, and elsewhere: If you think it's fake only because of how "stupid" you judge this letter writer to be, then you really have no idea about people. None at all.

I'm with everyone else (including 4): Get out of there, and NEVER speak to this person again. Get a new phone, move back to your parents' home for a while, brush up on self defense, and don't ever allow yourself to be in the same building as this man.
Posted by Matt from Denver on May 6, 2011 at 4:35 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 20
There needs to be a new acronym, because DTMFA doesn't quite fit the bill on this one.


Dump the mother-fucker but not before cutting his balls off first. These are the people who spread their genes in the world, no wonder it's so fucked up.
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on May 6, 2011 at 4:39 PM · Report this
aardvark 21



this guy sounds AWESOME are you crazy?! hes already 26 so you probably want to get on that train because he's probably only got another 35+ years left of this. you can have babies 7+8 if you play your cards right! jump in!

i once got two feeder mice as pets and in a few weeks the cage had about 15 mice running around. they were so cute! yeeeeee!
Posted by aardvark on May 6, 2011 at 4:45 PM · Report this
Callie 22
@20 I thought the same thing. I was going to add "As fast as humanly possible" to the acronym, but instead just added it afterward. DTMFAAFAHP
Posted by Callie on May 6, 2011 at 4:46 PM · Report this
BEG 23
Posted by BEG!/browneyedgirl65 on May 6, 2011 at 4:56 PM · Report this
Lose-Lose 24
I'm experienced enough to know that this isn't fake. As much as I wish it were, cases like this -and worse (and yes, there are worse cases)- are real, very real.


Honey, please read this response and take it to heart. Though we don't know you, we feel for you already. All the signs are there, you do a good job in painting them in HUGE, BRIGHT NEON COLORS that the rest of us can read them clearly, while you are perhaps too close to see what that sign says.

I'd even go far to direct you to services to help women in your situation. I don't think calling a domestic abuse hotline is out of order- and hey, thanks google!- check out, 1-800-799-SAFE. They can at least direct you to local resources to help you make the moves and cut the ties that you need to cut. While this might not like seem abuse to you (it is, emotional abuse at the very least right now), I'm sure everyone will agree that abuse is sure to happen: more manipulation, your emotional needs, him leaving you for another baby-mama, the drama that he will drag you into, the children he will leave you you with.

Good luck, in all sincerity, you'll need it.
Posted by Lose-Lose on May 6, 2011 at 5:03 PM · Report this
If it's not a fake, the general setup of "I've knocked up a lot of women and don't do much to raise the kids, but you're special so lets make babiez!" is absolutely a freaking red flag.
Posted by Smhill on May 6, 2011 at 5:04 PM · Report this
zivilisierter Wurm 26
Oi Gewalt...This is an extreme case, but I am quite honestly amazed how many women seem to fall for the "good dad at heart trapped with an evil ex" schtick. I've seen this play out several times with friends, and it inevitably ends with the somehow SHOCKING revelation that Good Dad is exactly as big of a flake/ gold-digger/CPOS/ as he was with his baby-momma.

I'm not saying honest-to-god nice fellas don't occasionally get saddled with the unplanned loin-product of crazy-exes. But seriously ladies: the real good guys? They are the ones who were demanding two different kinds of birth control before they stuck it in...
Posted by zivilisierter Wurm on May 6, 2011 at 5:05 PM · Report this
Doctor Memory 27
wurm@26: I'm willing to allow that a good guy might get saddled with a kid by a crazy ex... once. But SIX TIMES? Hell to the N-O-O-O.
Posted by Doctor Memory on May 6, 2011 at 5:11 PM · Report this
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the performance?
Posted by DavidinKenai on May 6, 2011 at 5:12 PM · Report this
Fnarf 29
Sweetie, if you don't get away from him as quickly as possible, within three years you're going to be living with your children by him in your car.
Posted by Fnarf on May 6, 2011 at 5:18 PM · Report this
Fish Wrench Asteroid 30
I had the exact same thought before I pushed the after the jump button.

I've met many girls this naive, and many boys this predatory. It's what you get when you don't teach children critical thinking as a skill, and appeal to authority for everything you tell them to do. They end up believing everything anyone says so long as it's said with authority. The girl isn't dumb, she just hasn't been taught how to think critically.
Posted by Fish Wrench Asteroid on May 6, 2011 at 5:19 PM · Report this
I'm with #20. This asshole needs to be sterilized before he brings any more kids into the world. Fuckinggoddammotherfuckingfuck I hate stories like this and sadly I know they are horribly common.

Seriously: two men committing to each other in a loving relationship is somehow immoral, but some asshole impregnating 6 women and never taking one single bit of responsibility for any of it is OK?!? GODDAMMIT!
Posted by Donna on May 6, 2011 at 5:25 PM · Report this
Lance Thrustwell 32
Unless Dan edited the hell out of this letter, the grammar and spelling are too good for her to be THIS dumb. There are only two possibilities left: either it's fake, or she has fairly serious psychological problems if she's in this kind of denial about what an obvious low-life psychopath this guy is.

Assuming the latter is the case, yes, run. But run to a therapist.
Posted by Lance Thrustwell on May 6, 2011 at 5:27 PM · Report this
Please, please, please back away from this situation. And I would start laying down boundaries right away, because he may decide to come after you if you dump him instantly. Be very careful. All my alarms went off when I read the part about how he would never allow a woman to have an abortion. Allow? Whoa. Allow? OMG. Are you listening, dear letter writer? Allow. Allow. You actually DO know what to do.
Posted by Sarah in Olympia on May 6, 2011 at 5:30 PM · Report this
Michael of the Green 34
You've dated him for four months, are considering starting a family with him, and he only JUST NOW let you visit his apartment?
Posted by Michael of the Green on May 6, 2011 at 5:39 PM · Report this
You are incredibly stupid or you would have run a long time ago and you would never have had to ask for advice.

Have yourself fixed.

You are too fucking stupid to risk having kids. It would be cruel.
Unless you receive a brain transplant your next hookup is not likely to be any better.

Posted by (however, of course, the letter is fake....) on May 6, 2011 at 5:42 PM · Report this
This was Wednesday night's Law & Order SUV, only it was John Stamos spreading his seed worldwide(the last time to the girl from Footloose, over 50 yo now).
Posted by SoSea Resident on May 6, 2011 at 6:02 PM · Report this
I wish I believed this were fake. But it's me, oh, 17, 18 years ago. There were only 3 kids by 2 women, plus there was jail time, and he pressured and pushed my sexual boundaries. He never kept a job any amount of time, but he wrote poetry and made me feel beautiful and wished he could only have kids with me and had a long sob story about his exes and how the world had conspired against him. I was a good girl, a star pupil with excellent grammar skills, thank you very much @32, but very sheltered by evangelical parents and very naive.

Please run. By providence or luck I never got pregnant in 5 years, so thankfully I never, ever have to see or think about him anymore.

"It's what you get when you don't teach children critical thinking as a skill, and appeal to authority for everything you tell them to do. They end up believing everything anyone says so long as it's said with authority." @30, you nailed it so hard with this. That is exactly what happened with me.
Posted by CLDG on May 6, 2011 at 6:05 PM · Report this
Even the brightest of us can get into situations where we think we're being good partners to people who we think love us, when really we're being duped by psycho creeps. It's a hell of a lot easier to see from the outside than from the inside, it always is. This girl made a big step recognizing the problem, was lucky to be saved from the reproductive abuse, which can be rationalized away, by the more glaring offense of that fucked up threesome plan.

Girl, get OUT. Tell as many people as you can, and make sure you're sleeping somewhere safe. Whatever support network you can cobble together before making the jump will save your life, at least emotionally, at worst physically. No good relative or friend would NOT want to get you out of this place you're in.
Posted by 21 is difficult on May 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM · Report this
@14: It's even worse. If his youngest is 3, then he had six children by five different women by the age of 23. How can you have that many children that young and still want more?
Posted by but, what, huh? on May 6, 2011 at 6:16 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 40
just another day in Moss Side, eh, fnarf?
Posted by scary tyler moore on May 6, 2011 at 6:21 PM · Report this
Reverse Polarity 41
Holy shit!

Yeah, run.

Honey, he's lying. There are guys out there that are really good at lying, and they love the idea of knocking up as many naive girls as possible. To them it is a joke and a challenge. Nothing more. The minute you are pregnant and it's too late to abort, he'll dump you and move on to the next conquest, and you'll never hear from him again. You are nothing but a prospective baby-momma #6.
Posted by Reverse Polarity on May 6, 2011 at 6:22 PM · Report this
pissy mcslogbot 42
only if perhaps she (and all of his other baby mommas) would have just followed this sage advice from those paragons of virtue ---MTVs teen moms, and had only cuddled w/ this douchefuck?

Posted by pissy mcslogbot on May 6, 2011 at 6:29 PM · Report this
Yeah, this is called Reproductive Abuse. A guy who is obsessed with his own progeny regardless of the women carrying his babies.

And, Law & Order SVU covered this JUST LAST WEEK with John Stamos. Look it up, watch it, breakup with this fool.
Posted by Extuno on May 6, 2011 at 6:33 PM · Report this
doloresdaphne 44
@37 & 30. Agreed.

And while my first response to this letter was "run" just like everyone else, memories of my younger, stupider self are resurfacing. I remember a time I might not have been so quick to say “run.”

As a woman in my early twenties who was yet to analyse and challenge the harmful socialisation which had lead me to become a passive person who was programmed to put up with unfathomable amounts of bullshit from men if I happened to be attracted to them, I got close to making some pretty dumb choices in the name of "staying with the man I loved," too.

I look back now with horror, but at the time I was under a cloud of stupidity. For some of us gals, learning not to put up with bullshit from men is something we have to learn the hard way.

For me, I self destructively pursued a relationship with a man who treated me like shit, and it was only after I became so fed up by the mind fuck, combined with one friend mentioning to me that I was not handling the situation in a sane way that I made a turn around. If it wasn’t from the advice of a friend, combined with reading lots of books on how women are socialised to put up with shit from men, I might still be where I was.

Some women unfortunately need some event or crisis to happen in order to learn to respect themselves. It’s not always instinct for all of us.
Posted by doloresdaphne on May 6, 2011 at 6:44 PM · Report this
I work in a high school. One year, my valedictorian became pregnant in the fall of her senior year. By spring, she'd run away from home and ended up finishing her diploma at PCC. (Her home parents were not crazy evil people, either.) My point is, even girls with excellent academics can make horrible life choices. LW's spelling, grammmar and punctuation do not rule out her being in the relationship as described.

Honey, if you are in the relationship as described, tell the guy you're thinking about your future. Start taking community college classes (if you're not already in school). Dropping him quick might set him off, but definitely start phasing him out. You need to study. You can't go out; you have an 8:30 class next morning. Get involved with a campus group or two, and talk about it to him a lot. Pretty soon, you'll just have no time for him. Or he'll start seeing you as 'lame' or 'boring' and drop you. Problem solved!

Of course, the above plan takes some time. You may prefer to go the shorter route others have suggested.
Posted by clashfan on May 6, 2011 at 6:51 PM · Report this
despicable me 46
How does this guy support his kids? Are all of his ex's on assistance, cause it aint cheap to pay child support for 6 kids? For 18 years each? What does he do for a living? Finally, he hasn't contacted you since the incident?

HELLO? Knock, knock? Anyone home? That red flag just went up in flames!
Posted by despicable me on May 6, 2011 at 6:57 PM · Report this
blackhook 47
Lance @32 pointed out that this allegedly clueless lady is perhaps a bit too grammatically-correct to be so transparently stupid.

So I'm leaning toward this letter being a fake - though a pretty good one at that! Otherwise, as Lance astutely says, she is as whacked as he is psycho. I *hope* it is a fake.
Posted by blackhook on May 6, 2011 at 7:00 PM · Report this
My immediate reaction was "fake". But then I remembered my asshole cousin who had three children (that we know of) by two different women (both with college degrees) and dated several others while living at home with his parents. He could never hold down a job because eventually he'd end up being supervised by a woman and, in his own words, "no bitch is going to tell me what to do". But he could be a charming and sexy asshole and there was never a shortage of women willing to believe his sad-sack of horseshit.

Eventually he vanished to avoid paying child support. After five years with only a couple of calls home to my aunt on Mother's Day, his parents got a phone call from the police in Calagary saying he had dropped dead of a stroke while jogging. Good fucking riddance was all I could say.

My aunt and uncle have spent their retirement trying to raise his kids -- the girls are doing ok, but his now 18 year old son has only completed 10th grade, does drugs to numb his pain, is in and out of jail and is basically a bigger fuck up than the dad who abandoned him.

So sweetheart, take everyone's advice and run. Do not let this guy charm you into doing something stupid with your life. Don't let his bad choices and manipulation overwhelm you. You deserve better and at 21 there is every likelihood you will find a much much better guy to share your life and have babies with -- when you are ready to in 5-8 years.

Run and don't look back. Good luck, kiddo.
Posted by Smartypants on May 6, 2011 at 7:16 PM · Report this
kim in portland 49

There are more red flags flying here than in China on a national holiday. Separate yourself from this individual as soon as possible.

Try this working definition of Domestic Violence: Coercive behavior used by one person to control and subordinate another in an intimate relationship. These behaviors may include physical, sexual, psychological and economic abuse."

Can you recognize your relationship here? Your gut is talking to you and it is telling you to get away. Don't silence it, listen to it and love yourself.
Good luck.
Posted by kim in portland on May 6, 2011 at 7:17 PM · Report this
For heaven's sake, people, everyone was stupid at 21. It's only slightly less stupid than 18.

I was screaming "RUN" at the 6 kids portion.
Posted by blah on May 6, 2011 at 7:19 PM · Report this



Keep yourself safe from this man and RUN RUN RUN.
Posted by hazakaza on May 6, 2011 at 7:21 PM · Report this
Seriously, though. Where does he fish to find women this consistently stupid? Does he post on a Jersey Shore webforum or something?
Posted by idk where the pool of fucking morons comes from but... on May 6, 2011 at 7:58 PM · Report this
I stopped reading after "are these red flags?"

Yes, you clueless ninny, those are red flags. Those flags are so red, they're on fire. Why do you assume that you're somehow different than the FIVE other women this man "started a family" with? You're not. Get out.
Posted by suddenlyorcas on May 6, 2011 at 8:11 PM · Report this
Either total SVU ripoff, or somebody in the PR department at NBC hoped to get this in just BEFORE the episode came out on Wednesday.
Posted by pacnwjay on May 6, 2011 at 8:36 PM · Report this
biju 55
fake, come on
Posted by biju on May 6, 2011 at 9:11 PM · Report this
This is insane, this is insane, this is insane, this is insane. Run run run run run!
Posted by gnot on May 6, 2011 at 9:15 PM · Report this
Also, in case this isn't instantly crystal clear, he's been living with his latest baby mama for the entire time. So yeah, they are fucking. Which is by far the least of your problems. And no, you cannot trust this, I hesititate to call him a man, this guy, at all. AT ALL. RUN.
Posted by gnot on May 6, 2011 at 9:23 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 58
"There are more red flags flying here than in China on a national holiday."

Kim, that's a fantastic turn of phrase.
Posted by Matt from Denver on May 6, 2011 at 9:27 PM · Report this
KetchupSoldier 59
@55 Have you read any of these comments from women who found themselves in remarkably similar situations? Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction...
Posted by KetchupSoldier on May 6, 2011 at 10:23 PM · Report this
TVDinner 60
Oh girl, trust your gut. It's telling you the truth: this guy has danger written all over.

I used to tolerate incredible shit from partners, because I didn't think I was valuable enough that another person would wanna fuck me. This was before I realized that I was the Keeper of the Magic Pussy. Men are not difficult to get in the sack. Therefore, there's no reason to tolerate bullshit just because it's attached to a cock. There are lots of cocks, and many of them are attached to actual nice people who will treat you with respect. Might as well get rid of this cock, and wait a little while for a better one to come into orbit. They always do, even if you don't look like the girls in the magazines. Hell, none of us do.
Posted by TVDinner http:// on May 6, 2011 at 10:32 PM · Report this
aardvark 61
tvdinner you have a pussy?? and you are on slog on a friday night? and dont appear drunk? tvdinner, i never would have imagined you so.. real. stopit
Posted by aardvark on May 6, 2011 at 11:36 PM · Report this
aardvark 62
@60 and @58, matt too. i think the correct way to think about men is how 60 begins to see the penis, attached, not attached, an animal with a mind of its own. half of humanity is a swarm of penises, flying around like flies. swat it away if you dont like it, or remember there will be LOTS and LOTS more flies, endless even, that you can eat or swat away another day. no rush! learn to love yourself first!
Posted by aardvark on May 6, 2011 at 11:58 PM · Report this
MythicFox 63
Jesus Christ, run. This sounds like the setup to a crappy slasher flick.
Posted by MythicFox on May 7, 2011 at 12:52 AM · Report this
are you fucking retarded?!
Posted by joemomma on May 7, 2011 at 1:59 AM · Report this
Rev. Adam McKinney 65
Hold on. You're fucking this guy without a condom? At four months? After he's impregnated five women? After he asks you to have a threesome with his live-in ex?

How did it feel to type out that letter? If there is a brain in that head of yours, you must have come to your answer by the very last word, right?

If you needed Dan and a few dozen other people to tell you how crazy you were acting before you could move on, well, there you have it. Do not walk. Run.

And get tested.
Posted by Rev. Adam McKinney on May 7, 2011 at 2:08 AM · Report this
Rach3l 66
My nice response: He cannot POSSIBLY be paying child support to all of these women. Think about why he actually wants to impregnate you. I'm wondering if he maybe has some sort of STD that he's trying to spread intentionally, or some other nefarious reason for taking young and presumably attractive women out of the dating pool.

My honest, lizard-brain response: There are so many red flags in this story that there is no way any reasonable person would be able to see past them to a good guy. I am honestly flabbergasted. OP yes, you sound quite leotarded. Why didn't you leave when he asked you to stop taking birth control? FUCK'S SAKE!
Posted by Rach3l on May 7, 2011 at 2:56 AM · Report this
What makes the LW think she's any more special to this lying, abusive POS breeder than all the other woman he's fucked and fucked over? Just how is he supporting the children he's already fathered and how much time does he actually spend with them? I mean, a great father, get real. What does he do, gather all of his spawn together so play daddy? I can just imagine well imagine how thrilled the mother's would be, assuming they even exist. The logistics of being a father to six kids, much less six kids by five different women, is mind boggling. What's her life going to be like after the POS dumps her for another woman or other women who eat up his line of BS with a spoon? She'd wind up a single parent with this joker, he being such a great father and all, continuing to drop in now and then. What sane man would want to deal with the drama and complications of her existence? It may be only a urban legend or movie plot, but I understand that single mothers have a hard time finding someone who wants to be in a committted LTR. I'm in no way an expert in this area. Even if you are already poly, the existence of someone else's offspring complicates life. You'd be entering into a relationship with not only mother, but the child(ren) and their father(s). This may make me a bad person or not, but I'd never enter into a serious LTR with a single mother if the father(s) were still alive. No problem with NSA sex, but that is a completely different dynamic. In nature, one of the first acts of a new alpha male among pack/pride animals is to kill or chase off the offspring of the old alpha male. That's what Hamlet's uncle, the king, tries to do. Just some late night thoughts with no real purpose.

Some women are so naive and gullible (men as well) that they shouldn't be allowed in public without a keeper.
Posted by are people really this stupid a rhetorical question on May 7, 2011 at 2:58 AM · Report this
Rach3l 68
And after reading all of the comments, I see that the male's desire to spread his seed far and wide is actually a recognized pathology! That makes sense.
Posted by Rach3l on May 7, 2011 at 3:05 AM · Report this
Wow, this girl is actually clinging onto Dan's statement that sometimes men should get input into whether or not a woman decides to get an abortion - to justify her boyfriend being the type of asshole who says he'd never ALLOW a woman to get an abortion! Wow.

Also, the LW should know that abusive partners often want their victims to get pregnant, and will use a variety of tactics to sabotage or withhold birth control:…

What I'm saying here is you better make sure as shit he has no access to your BC. In fact, get a new package right now - you think 6 unplanned pregnancies were actually all accidental? He is either outright forcing his girlfriends to stop taking the pill, or he is poking holes in condoms, or switching out women's pills for aspirin.

Run away, run away!
Posted by planned barrenhood on May 7, 2011 at 3:16 AM · Report this
geez you people are prudes.
this dude is just a typical upstanding citizen of Gommorah.
bzness as usual in the Land of Depravity....
Posted by don't EVEN act surprised or shocked.... on May 7, 2011 at 3:24 AM · Report this
This is very Murdochian - the unicorn girl, raised on Love Conquers All and believing in the power of virginity (often remaining virgin in soul even after much experience), goes and persecutes the dragon with her own ideas of redemption until it has no recourse but to eat her.

Do not be that girl. You do not have the power to transform dragons into princes (and would not know what to do with one if you did). Stop trying before you are eaten. Learn this thoroughly and develop a chooser that can find you a prince. Then try again.
Posted by vennominon on May 7, 2011 at 6:01 AM · Report this
Haters need to shut up. Look, hon. We've all had lapses in judgment--I don't think I want to know anybody who hasn't--and creeps like this guy specialize in taking advantage of your shame and insecurity. In the infatuated period you considered the idea of making babies with him, but now that you've seen his apartment and been propositioned by his "ex" you're thinking twice about it. Maybe just the process of writing this letter has made you realize you want out of this situation. Turn around and walk away, knowing that you were able to shake off your confusion and get out when things got too fucked-up. Ignore the jerks in this thread who are tearing you down--let them choke on their own self-satisfaction. You're lucky you had the judgment to question the situation and get out when you did.
Posted by Prettybetsy on May 7, 2011 at 7:23 AM · Report this
Um, fake.
Posted by mitten on May 7, 2011 at 7:48 AM · Report this
"But we have such a solid relationship despite the fact that he is pressuring me to become pregnant, already has 6 kids with 5 other women, and is living with one of them who along with him attempted to pressure me into a threesome despite my visible discomfort."

Such a solid relationship. Such "good" communication. And 4 entire months of proof of his reliability and maturity? What a shame to see something so worth saving on the rocks.

I take two things away from this: 1. People who have low self-esteem and/or terror at the thought of being alone will rationalize anything away; and 2. We need national bullshit-detector training.

Posted by maddy811 on May 7, 2011 at 7:56 AM · Report this
It's me, the LW. Just to set the record straight, he is employed; has a great job (although he has a GED -- very intelligent though), makes probably more money than I (with my impending bachelor's degree) could hope to make anytime in the near future, is extremely successful for his age. No this is not fake, although I wish it was.

The details of his bm-situation were revealed to me piece by piece as time went on. It's easy to believe someone when you've gone to work with them (which takes up a lot of their time and often takes them out of town), spoken to their family members, hung out with their friends, go to school over an hour away from where they live, etc.

I do have great critical-thinking skills, just not where matters of my heart are concerned, and I did not grow up with any positive examples of relationships; yes I will be starting therapy next week. & as someone who had an abortion as a teenager, I had mixed feelings on his convictions about the subject; thank God I at least felt the need to finish school before I entertained the idea of kids with him, and at least this situation happened sooner rather than later so that I had no choice but to step back and see what is going on for what it is rather than what I wish it to be.

I appreciate all you guys have to say and am taking it very seriously.
Posted by The LW on May 7, 2011 at 8:22 AM · Report this
@14 - But at least 3 of them were conceived after just one sexual encounter! So they hardly count at all! Right?

Heartbroken, if the message hasn't got through yet - run so fast you leave scorchmarks and a Roadrunner dust trail. NOW.
Posted by onetequilatwotequila on May 7, 2011 at 8:22 AM · Report this
Ha! Just beaten past the post.

LW; his intelligence and money just make it easier for him to manipulate you. (And no doubt others.) Keep running.
Posted by onetequilatwotequila on May 7, 2011 at 8:25 AM · Report this
I might have thought this letter was fake. Then I remembered that one of my best friends, a smart, educated, tough woman was involved with a guy like this when she was 20. LW, please oh please believe me that the best thing she ever did in her whole life was get away from him. It wasn't easy. When she told him they were through he assaulted her. She hid at my house for days. We were so young I don't think we really understood the gravity of the situation. LW, this guy will not be there for you. He will not provide for you or your kids. He will treat you like property and then move on as soon as he sees the next shiny thing. Leaving you to spend your entire youth raising a kid (or two!) with no help. Get out NOW. (and get an IUD. They are cheap, better than the old kind they used to have, and it can be your little secret.)
Posted by teamcanada on May 7, 2011 at 8:56 AM · Report this
shw3nn 79
LW, it doesn't surprise me at all that this guy is able to make a lot of money with only a GED. He sounds like a very accomplished con-artist.

Do not think he is anything else. This is the worst case scenario that Imma lay out for you and it is a distinct possibility.

The most likely explanation for his situation is that he gets off on getting people to do crazy things for him.

If he is intelligent, how did he manage to accidentally get a girl pregnant the first time he had sex with her on three separate occasions?

Doesn't it make more sense that he pulled the same shit on them that he's pulling on you? He made them feel like they were special and had a great connection....they agreed to stop using BC.....they got pregnant...he lost interest.

That's the biggest thrill he could get from you, getting you to have his child. That would be you changing the whole rest of your life for him.

But, you're obviously not going to so he tries something else. How about a threesome? Fuck! You're already open to the idea? That's no fun. How about we raise the stakes? Let's see if you'll agree to a threesome with the woman who had his child.

He can't let you think about it, though. He'll have to spring this on you or you'll just refuse.

That is how dark and twisted this situation might actually be. People like this exist.

Posted by shw3nn on May 7, 2011 at 8:58 AM · Report this
shw3nn 80
Lemme just add, this guy managed to convince his ex-girlfriend and mother of his child to help him seduce his current girlfriend.

This is a talented manipulator and you haven't given in to any of his crazy requests. That's a job well done.

I wouldn't take the insults you're getting in these comments too much to heart. They are intended to slap sense into you before you ruin your whole life, not to make you feel like an emotionally crippled idiot.

You probably could benefit from some therapy. We all could. I'm just saying, you're not a basket case or anything. This guy is obviously really good at getting people to trust him and feel safe and connected to him. You have kept yourself protected so far. Well done.
Posted by shw3nn on May 7, 2011 at 9:17 AM · Report this
@75 You did not answer the most immediate comment made to you. Did you leave this guy or not? If you come back and say that you are still with him, then I'm sorry; You're a fool. Stop rationalizing his behavior by returning here to make excuses about how educated he is and GET THE FUCK OUT of that relationship. You aren't using your critical thinking skills for this situation, and have ASKED OTHERS to use their critical thinking skill FOR YOU... and then you return to excuse your "partner" some more. Get out, you idiot.
Posted by suddenlyorcas on May 7, 2011 at 9:26 AM · Report this
Oh, and LW? Do you even know where this guy works, or does he keep that a secret from you as well? You keep raising more and more flags each time you come back to defend him. And why exactly are you still defending this creep? Run.
Posted by suddenlyorcas on May 7, 2011 at 9:27 AM · Report this
Agree with post @38. Being emotionally manipulated isn't the same thing as being stupid. When people are lonely or in a vulnerable position they sometimes make stupid choices they wouldn't normally make. At 21 this girl is probably still on the naive side and makes excuses for this guy b/c she wants to believe that she's in love. And it's always easier to see it from the outside, when you're not the person who's vulnerabilities are being exploited.
Posted by Run and don't look back! on May 7, 2011 at 9:30 AM · Report this
@79 spot on. Great statement-People like this exist. I didn't fully understand or appreciate that till my best friend of 17 years went bunny-boiler psychotic on me. But until you have a bad experience with a bad apple, you don't really recognize it for what it really is.

Most normal people tend to give psychos the benefit of the doubt, because they assume that the psycho thinks just like they do. They don't think like you at all. They're constantly manipulating and purposely wearing your defenses down so they can control you. A lot of people will often assume that you can give others the benefit of the doubt, even if there are some glaring problems, as long as everything else seems on the up and up.

The rationale goes something like, well, he has a great job and I've met all of his friends. Or, she went to college, is articulate and seems stable enough. You don't really learn to see all the signs until you've seen them a few times and know what to look for. It's easy to make excuses for the red flags if everything else seems ok.

It's especially difficult as a woman, because you are taught to be nurturing from a young age. Women that get taken advantage of or wind up in abusive relationships aren't stupid- it's like what @78 said: "People like this exist." And they know exactly what they're doing when they manipulate, because most of them have been at it a long time and gone through a lot of people before you. They're good at lying and cheating.
Posted by psychos are talented liars on May 7, 2011 at 9:54 AM · Report this
@82, the LW does know where he works, she answered that question when she wrote back @75: "It's easy to believe someone when you've gone to work with them." She's not an idiot, she just fell in with a con man. Con men are successful because they are really charming,a and they don't make it easy to see through their bullshit.

And if you read @75, it sounds like she is preparing to leave him. Which makes me so so so happy! Good morning, everyone!
Posted by EricaP on May 7, 2011 at 10:45 AM · Report this
very bad homo 86
If she really is this clueless, I doubt she will listen to anyone's advice.
Posted by very bad homo on May 7, 2011 at 11:01 AM · Report this
It's LW again... To answer @81 I haven't even been able to speak to him since he dropped me home later the morning of the incident so it's not as if I've had the opportunity to take much action. From reading some of the comments (especially @79/@80) it seems like he may have realized that I'm not quite as dumb/easy to manipulate as he would prefer so he is just abandoning ship, which is fine with me. Will I answer if he decides to call again? No. And I wasn't offering excuses for him, just felt defensive at the accusations of how idiotic I am and was trying to put things in a broader perspective as far as what other things attracted me to him/diminished the blow of various warning signs.

And it's definitely much easier for you guys to judge from your outsider vantage point. I definitely know what I have to do to save myself but that doesn't mean this is easy for me emotionally. And yes, again, I am starting therapy soon.
Posted by The LW once again on May 7, 2011 at 11:12 AM · Report this
sirkowski 88
She should also have her tubes tied. Or removed or whatever.

Also, don't operate heavy machinery.
Posted by sirkowski on May 7, 2011 at 11:15 AM · Report this
Womyn2me 89
You know how we breed intelligence out of our dinner animals: cows, chickens and the like?

sometimes I think our culture breeds out intelligence in straight women.
Posted by Womyn2me http://http:\\ on May 7, 2011 at 11:18 AM · Report this
sirkowski 90
I do have great critical-thinking skills,

NO YOU DON'T. What you have is hubris.
Posted by sirkowski on May 7, 2011 at 11:27 AM · Report this
@90 - You, sir, have hubris. It is hubris to think that if you were faced with a con man/woman, you would not succumb to his/her charms.

I have met one amazingly talented con man. I opened the door one day, to find him there, on my door-step. He was all of 20 years old, and I was 35. I never give money to door-to-door solicitors. Never. I don't even listen to their story. I say politely, no thank you, and I close the door. But I gave him $40 for his purported school trip to Spain (yeah, right), even though I knew his story was ridiculous. I was lucky he was only asking for a small amount of money. And I fantasize about him, to this day.
Posted by EricaP on May 7, 2011 at 11:33 AM · Report this
LW again

...Thanks to all of you who actually bothered to read the entirety of what I had to say and offer actual insight rather than simply leaping at the opportunity to tear me down. I truly appreciate it and like I said, I'm taking this all in and taking steps to separate myself from this situation and better myself as a person.

Posted by The LW once and for all on May 7, 2011 at 11:34 AM · Report this
She is a fucking idiot. DO NOT REPRODUCE!!!!
Posted by kevin11 on May 7, 2011 at 11:38 AM · Report this
LW, sorry, some people get a charge out of piling on - and clearly don't read anyone else's comments. There is a big difference between being dumb and being inexperienced. And this culture needs a serious change in what we teach our children about love. So we're surprised to find teenage boys who think stalking = romance? And girls who think that love = being "the one" who will "believe in me" no matter what manner of bullshit gets piled on?

One thing I want so badly to do, and I'm not sure how, is to give my daughter a bullshit detector. When I was that young I believed everything people told me. I had no way of sussing out con men, fabulists, or just (as in the case of my ex) people with no connection between their vision of themselves and reality.
Posted by CLDG on May 7, 2011 at 12:15 PM · Report this
@92 - My aunt got pregnant by a guy like this and married him (she was his seventh wife, the others had restraining orders). He moved his mistress in to raise her children (thank god) a week after the car accident he caused to remove her from the picture because she told him she was leaving (oh, don't worry. He took out a huge life insurance policy first.). She was magna cum laude at a top tier university and had a high paying professional job until he convinced her to quit it. She also had no model for what a good relationship was. She and her kids paid the price. You'll usually never see the real side of a sociopath until they've really really got you for good. They are flawless reproductions of the best a human being can be, better than real normal people. They find out what you want, and become everything you've ever wanted in personality, interests, they create themselves to match what you need better than anyone really could until they own you and then, well, that's it. You're fucked. They often have a lot of people on the hook - you were shown these people (co-workers, baby mama, friends, even relatives - who by the way you shouldn't rely on in general to warn you off) in order to make you trust him more. It's unlikely he's ever actually truly real and genuine with anyone, because he is not capable. There is no cure for this. Nothing you or anyone else can do will change what he is. It is likely he was the victim of abuse when younger and trots that out slowly over time to make it feel like you're the only one he's ever truly trusted/loved/etc. He's had a lot of practice with that spiel, so he's very good at it. People like this are incapable of love, incapable of caring. They are really truly monsters. They can mimic true love flawlessly, but it is not real. It won't hurt him a bit to find another young, inexperienced, willing to ignore the massive warning signs girl to take your place. If he's out of town a lot, a lot of traveling, hell, even if he's not, he's probably got a few lined up already. He feeds off the ownership and misery of women, that is all he has and all he wants. If you've had no model for what a good relationship is, it sounds like your childhood may have been a bit rocky. For the sake of yourself and your potential future kids, please get some serious help now when you are young. You will be so much better off for it. And use that therapist to not only get into those issues, but run any future boyfriends by them, and whoever else you can find who you feel has good solid judgement (generally older women, probably not your mom if she didn't do so well for herself). Then listen to those people, until you can make these kind of judgements for yourself. This will take years to learn, possibly years of therapy. But you have to, if you want to avoid situations like this. People are calling you stupid because it is so obviously a terrible situation, but if it is possible for you to ignore the most obvious warning signs because of emotional entanglement you need to be very careful for the next several years at least at who you choose to get emotionally entangled with, because it seems like you are dangerously vulnerable. Life alteringly dangerously vulnerable. Please get help and be careful with yourself. You deserve a lifetime of better relationships than those who raised you, you don't have to keep on paying the price of a rotten childhood forever. These are learned skills, you are smart and you can learn them. Good luck.
Posted by gnot on May 7, 2011 at 12:20 PM · Report this
Centopar 96
LW - good for you, honey. Keep on not picking up that phone, and emphasise getting out of the situation *fast* - it's easy to draw things out because you don't want to hurt people, and you don't want to feel like the bad guy. Don't; it won't salve anybody's feelings, and you absolutely don't *owe* this guy an easy or pleasant end to things. And the therapy you're having should help you to see that you you're doing the good and healthy thing.

It sounds like you were on the pill and not using condoms before you found out about his sexual history. I hope you decide to get tested. It will help draw a line as well as setting your mind at rest; it's also a rather unpleasant but useful lesson in how to approach protection with any partners you have later on. Best of luck, and chin up.
Posted by Centopar on May 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM · Report this
P.S. Keep in mind it's likely that you are obviously visibly vulnerable - guys like him can see it and will seek you out. It wasn't just a bad decision on your part to date him - he went after you - they are looking for girls like you, so you'll be exposed to a higher percentage of guys like this than the average population until you are stronger, at which point they won't bother you anymore (so many other fish in the sea, he's found at the very least, what five or six other women who were so willing to believe him they had his child??? - No way he got three women pregnant first try by the way - statistically almost impossible.). Not only will you attract them like flies, but bastards like this will also be more attractive to you than good guys until you learn better life skills. That's how some women get stuck in a lifetime of dating nothing but bastards. It's ok though - most guys aren't like this, you'll find one eventually, but for now I'd steer clear of relationships until you're a bit stronger.
Posted by gnot on May 7, 2011 at 12:44 PM · Report this
The only thing I would mention, since everyone has done a great job, is that at any time all these women can sue him

How are you going to like living in poverty and your man can never afford to take you out or buy you things?

(maybe that will get her attention!)
Posted by pb1025 on May 7, 2011 at 1:03 PM · Report this
Yeah, fake. Six kids with 5 different women by age 26 and pressuring his current gf to go off birth control? Sounds fake. A woman silly enough to ask if any of these details are "red flags"? Fake.
Posted by Amanda on May 7, 2011 at 1:20 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 100
@ 99, and those who made similar leaps, just shut up, please.

@ LW, glad some of us could be of service, and thrilled to read that you're moving in the right direction.
Posted by Matt from Denver on May 7, 2011 at 1:41 PM · Report this
sirkowski 101
@91 That's the old "it could happened to anyone" bullshit. It's when you don't think yourself smarter than you really are that you're cautious about manipulators. You can't make me feel bad for not being a victim like she is.
Posted by sirkowski on May 7, 2011 at 2:39 PM · Report this
@101 - Luck has had nothing to do with your success in life? You are completely safe from con men and other dangers, due to your excellent self-knowledge? That's your hubris, right there. The LW is learning from her mistakes, while you, sir, seem incapable of the same.
Posted by EricaP on May 7, 2011 at 2:56 PM · Report this
wingedkat 103
@ LW, 92, 87

You're not stupid, or an idiot. I actually hope you've stopped reading these comments by now, because there's no need to take that kind of abuse.

The idiots saying that crap have no idea what they're talking about, and someday are going to get taken in as bad or as worse by someone. You've seen the red flags with plenty of time to get out, which makes you the smart one. You'll be better at recognizing a smooth, manipulative bastard next time you meet one. I was.

Just treasure the good parts, learn from the bad, and move on. Don't let this mess you up for other guys though, it was only 4 months, and he's not worth dwelling on.
Posted by wingedkat on May 7, 2011 at 3:39 PM · Report this
wingedkat 104

She's not a victim.

Look at her letter! She avoided the situation, remained on BC, was disgusted by her exBF and his baby-moma, and saw the red flags. She left that guy behind the moment she wrote that letter. It was probably as clear to her on the second read as it is to us.

So she didn't want to admit that she'd been taken in, who would?
Posted by wingedkat on May 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM · Report this
TreGibbs 105
How do people get so fucking stupid and oblivious? At some point, they deserve what they get - I mean, COME ON !
Posted by TreGibbs on May 7, 2011 at 4:24 PM · Report this
@80 - it seems really unlikely the baby mama is an ex. She's living with the guy in an apt the letter writer has never been to, in another town, and he travels a lot for work, prob works late, etc. Pretty sure that was her home the letter writer was invited to visit, not just his.
And it seems pretty clear she'd have stayed with him had this situation not happened. So she's lucky he screwed up in such a dramatic fashion. And if she doesn't have a bullshit detector that goes off until something this drastic happens, she needs some new friends ASAP, who will tell her what everyone is telling her here. Why hasn't everyone been telling her this from the beginning?
Posted by gnot on May 7, 2011 at 5:32 PM · Report this
Amaranthus 107
Posted by Amaranthus on May 7, 2011 at 6:38 PM · Report this
yucca flower 108
@ Too Heartbroken and Confused to Think of a Clever Acronym,

RUN. RUN. RUN!!!!!!

If this shiz is for realz, the dude's a sociopath! No, those 6 kids weren't conceived after sex "one time"! They were conceived with women just like YOU! You're the latest notch on his bed post! Oh, and, Darling, if you marry this creep you'll be on the hook for his child support payments! CP comes out of your (his n' hers) combined incomes and I gotta feeling your dude has got no income except you!

RUN. RUN. RUN!!!!! Just like #107 says, "RUN LIKE YOUR ASS IS ON FIRE!"
Posted by yucca flower on May 7, 2011 at 7:04 PM · Report this
Posted by DRF on May 7, 2011 at 7:26 PM · Report this
doloresdaphne 110
"You know how we breed intelligence out of our dinner animals: cows, chickens and the like? sometimes I think our culture breeds out intelligence in straight women"

I find that statement highly offensive. Highly offensive, but highly probable.

I'm bisexual, and I've for a long time now believed my heterosexual side to be my stupid side : )
Posted by doloresdaphne on May 7, 2011 at 9:26 PM · Report this
A few questions for you:
he is adamantly against abortion and would refuse to allow a woman to abort his children
What do you think about this? Is this ok with you?

his desire for me to stop taking my birth control pills
What about what you want? Is this what YOU want? Or his he the driver and you're the passenger in this relationship?

being with me makes him feel ready to start a family and that our child(ren) would be the only ones that he wanted to have
How does this make you feel? If it makes you feel special, ask yourself why. You say he's a great father, but he's basically saying the ones that he has with you will be more important and wanted than the ones he already as.

Are these red flags?
What's your opinion?

Glad to hear that you'll start therapy - I hope your therapist is a good one and that it'll be a productive process for you. In the meantime, I think you'll find very useful, starting with this post:…
Posted by LM on May 7, 2011 at 10:45 PM · Report this
Hmm. I wonder if she's kinky and submissive and likes someone being in charge... maybe she needs a loving dominant guy/girl who will treat her right.
Posted by BlackRose on May 8, 2011 at 2:34 AM · Report this

Seriously though, girl needs to watch the latest Law & Order: SVU.
Posted by Real-life reproductive abuser! on May 8, 2011 at 9:17 AM · Report this
LW, you are obviously intelligent, and having had a similar situation myself, I never thought this letter was fake. Please read gnot's comments at 95, 97, 106, etc. This man is a sociopath. They are much more common than most people realize. One way some sociopaths like to use people is to get a lot of women pregnant. A baby mama will never be able to break free from him; he'll have some measure of control her whole life long. You should check out the blog It's by and for sociopaths and others with different personality disorders. You are so being played. But by a very sophisticated sociopath. He is very dangerous. He is NOT what he seemed to you to be. Please be safe and please just get away from him. Good luck.
Posted by HRH on May 8, 2011 at 11:20 AM · Report this
@110 - it's worse than that. You can't breed intelligence out of women without breeding it out of men - so hopefully that's not happening. But you sure as shit can culturally imprint them to be stupid in certain ways, teach them from birth to ignore danger at their own expense in order to make them better submissive self deprecating low self esteem totally willing to be paid less on the dollar underwhelming lesser members of society. And yeah, I catch myself falling into those patterns - pitching my voice higher, acting more helpless and clueless than I am, meeting other people's needs above my own by default, being ridiculously tolerant of bullshit - and I get really fucking mad at myself. But it still happens. Goddammit.
Posted by gnot on May 8, 2011 at 11:56 AM · Report this
blackhook 116
I'm not sure breeders should be allowed to have children ...their world is sick & depraved!
Posted by blackhook on May 8, 2011 at 1:06 PM · Report this

I actually expected post-partum depression exacerbated by the fact that this deadbeat isn't supporting her in the least. "Passed away" my ass. If he said something like "it was a traffic accident" then it was probably somewhere along the lines of her walking out in front of a bus in the middle of the night, after 3 consecutive weeks of 3 hours of sleep.
Posted by gromm on May 8, 2011 at 9:40 PM · Report this
Glad to hear that the LW is distancing herself from this creep. Your next step should be to call a domestic abuse hotline and get some advice about whether or not you need to take extra precautions for your safety (say, staying with a friend for a few days, or letting a security guard at work know that this guy shouldn't be let in).

Keep your head up, it's great that you decided to write to Savage at this point in the relationship, and started realizing that none of this crap was normal BEFORE he had you convinced to go off of BC. Your plans to start therapy soon are also a great idea.
Posted by planned barrenhood on May 9, 2011 at 3:51 AM · Report this
@84 - very true.

"Most normal people tend to give psychos the benefit of the doubt, because they assume that the psycho thinks just like they do."

I'm living with a guy who over the course of a year and a half has shown himself not to be a particularly honourable person. I've discovered him to be a destructive person who gets enjoyment out of undermining me, and doing things he knows will upset me. When I raised the issue of his to the two (smart, decent) women we also live with, they thought I was making it up. I've realised that it's probably because they are decent people, and it's beyond their imagination that this guy might not be a decent human being.
Posted by quiet here on May 9, 2011 at 5:43 AM · Report this
and to add one more thing,

I've got a theory about women and why so many put up with disproportionate amounts of bullshit from dudes. I think it's because women are on the whole better people (if you think I'm being sexist, look at the statistics on homicides - most are carried out by men).

And so these women tend to project their own good selves onto the men they love. They project their own compassion, sensitivity, capacity for love and empathy onto men who sometimes don't meet these assumed standards.

The true character of the men these women give their energy to then comes as an unpleasant surprise, after much denial
Posted by quiet here on May 9, 2011 at 5:50 AM · Report this
@120 - no, women aren't better people than men. They are in general more subservient and tolerant of emotional abuse. That doesn't make them better people, just gullible.
Posted by gnot on May 9, 2011 at 8:28 AM · Report this
@121 - in this society, anyway. It depends on the culture.
Posted by gnot on May 9, 2011 at 8:29 AM · Report this
shw3nn 123
@120 The only person I've ever known personally who was a sociopath to the degree that the guy described here is was a woman. When I knew her, she was married to a man who married her because she got pregnant. He married her right away and then she had a miscarriage in the bath. She described the miscarriage as the baby coming out of her with arms and legs. She buried it before her husband got home.

They eventually had other kids.

There were six of us that played D&D together. She accused me of hitting on her husband. She accused the husband of another married couple of hitting on her. And she accused my ex boyfriend whom she regularly used as a free babysitter of intending to molest her children (At that point, he was the only one of the four of us willing to go within 500 feet of that psycho). He was the life long best friend of her husband. He was her husbands only close friend at that point. After that accusation, she was the only person her husband had besides his parents.

From what we could piece together from his myspace page, she divorced him a couple of years later and remarried very quickly.
Posted by shw3nn on May 9, 2011 at 10:38 AM · Report this
@123-I'm guessing your sociopath might've suffered from Borderline Personality Disorder.
Posted by HOT PUSSY on May 9, 2011 at 1:47 PM · Report this
shw3nn 125
@124 I can see why you would think that but it's not true. In each case, it was a long, dispassionate, systematic campaign of disinformation. She was never a moody person at all. And she never confronted the people she was saying these things about. She really was like a femme fatale.
Posted by shw3nn on May 9, 2011 at 2:15 PM · Report this
@125-Yow! Yep, someone who acts borderline but isn't is in some ways much worse than a borderline.
Posted by HOT PUSSY on May 9, 2011 at 7:02 PM · Report this
@125. My lay understanding is that psychopaths (Antisocial PD) are certainly capable of behavior like this, but they just don't care enough about the core relationship to do it. However, having known a person with Borderline personality, this seems relatively consistent. Unless there's a part I'm missing, of course, and god knows I don't have the whole story.

And please, please note, someone with borderline personality is not "a borderline". They're a person. Their inner life is a hell beyond my or your imagination. You may not be able to maintain a friendship or relationship with such a person - I wasn't - but a little compassion, please.

To LW, nothing that hasn't been said already. It seems like you've explained away his circumstances as being a good person who occasionally does bad things - or who has had bad things happen to him. I'll avoid moralizing and simply point out that you're unlikely to have a stable, conventional long-term relationship with him. (To say the least).

If you want what he has to offer, all's well and good. Just remember that what he has to offer in a relationship isn't what he says he has to offer, or what you wish he had to offer, it's what he's offered all the other women in his life. Which is a train wreck. If you don't like the sound of that, then it's time to go.
Posted by TokenCanadian on May 9, 2011 at 9:45 PM · Report this
A lot of people posting here have failed to notice that the letter writer has already replied. Twice. Don't know why so many people think unregistered comments aren't worth their attention; I'm just as anonymous with a username as I am without.
Posted by Anonymous registered user on May 10, 2011 at 2:28 AM · Report this
129 Comment Pulled (Spam) Comment Policy
shw3nn 130
@127 I do not agree that what she did required concern for a core relationship.
Posted by shw3nn on May 10, 2011 at 8:21 AM · Report this
I met a guy like this recently. No, not romantically. I hired him to do some work for me, and when he didn't show up one morning, he gave me an explanation later. Turns out he got arrested on a warrant for non-payment of child support. Further turns out he had 5 kids by 5 different women, but he tried to justify the arrest by saying he wasn't convinced that the kid in question (that he wasn't paying support on) was his. (I think this was on top of the 5 he admitted to).
He also seemed to feel that this kind of family situation was Totally Normal, and then he went on to say something to my boyfriend (not me) about how you don't really feel Like A Man until you've got a woman knocked up.
I suspect the guy the LW met is a very similar person...
I don't get it. I really don't. But they're out there.
Posted by childfree on May 10, 2011 at 11:19 AM · Report this
MythicFox 132
@128 -- It's not the anonymity, it's the fact that they don't care enough to set up a username and possibly make themselves blockable in the future. And technically, you're a little less anonymous when I can click on your handle and bring up a record of posts to confirm that you may or may not be a troll/gardener/mechanic/superhero/etc.
Posted by MythicFox on May 11, 2011 at 6:46 PM · Report this
It's not nice to say so in this country where abortion is such a divisive issue, but honestly, filtering out guys who are anti-abortion is a good way to avoid situations like this. It hasn't failed me yet. At the very least, even if he's personally squeamish about abortion, he should at least understand that the decision is not his to make.
Posted by Erda on May 22, 2011 at 12:44 AM · Report this

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