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News & ArtsFriday, May 20, 2011
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: ETMFA
Posted by Dan Savage on Fri, May 20, 2011 at 3:39 PM
I'm a 24-year-old woman, and recently I met a great boy. We've been on a couple of dates, we get on really well, and I'd like to pursue it further. But I've got one problem. I broke up with my boyfriend of 4 years 6 weeks ago. It's a bit messy, he's 27, we lived together for 2 years, he still lives in our shared house, rent comes out of my account, he owes me a lot of money and barely makes payments. He's never held down a job and is directionless. Despite all this it should've been an amicable break up, but in the first week I moved out he slept with his friend's girlfriend, told me about it in the name of 'honesty' then got together with a new girl and they've been very coupley from day one. We share a lot of friends so it's hard to ignore. The way he's behaving seems so violent and unthoughtful. Although he's always been a bit irresponsible I never expected this of him.
So obviously, I'm not in the most stable of states right now, what are my responsibilities towards this new guy? Meeting someone so nice and interesting has really helped take my mind off this sucky situation. I don't want to parade any of this unpleasantness in front of him as it's not really his problem and I don't want it to define me, but obviously it's quite a big deal in my life right now. I'm normally very stable and together and although I put on a good front and am fun to be with I'm not over everything yet. Is it too soon?
Tired Of This
My response after the jump...
················
Too soon to kick your directionless, mooching loser of an ex-boyfriend to the curb? Nope, not too soon. And if this new boy is giving you the incentive to evict the motherfucker already, TOT, that's great. Add that item to the growing list of the new boyfriend's good qualities.
As for your ex-boyfriend debts...
Figure out how much your ex-boyfriend owes you, TOT, then figure out how much you'd be willing to pay to be rid of your ex-boyfriend. If the amount he owes you is lesser than the amount you would pay to be rid of him, getting rid of him was a bargain. If the amount he owes you is greater than the amount you would pay to be rid of him, you're just going to have to eat the loss.
Either way, TOT, your ex is never going to pay the money he owes you. The longer he stays, the more he owes you and the more you're out in the end. Kick the loser out, get a responsible roommate, date the nice boy.
1
I'm not following something here, because the writer said "...in the first week I moved out he slept with his friend's girlfriend...."
Is she not living there any more? Is he living there and she's paying for it, or ... what the heck is going on?
Is she not living there any more? Is he living there and she's paying for it, or ... what the heck is going on?
2
She can't be stupid enough to be paying the bills on a place her ex is living in without her, can she? She should close the account that pays the rent, and let the douchebag get evicted.
3
"violent"? Really? Dicktastic sure, but not violent.
But typing of something totally unrelated, check it out, atheists have better sex lives, says Science: http://www.alternet.org/sex/150978/athei…
But typing of something totally unrelated, check it out, atheists have better sex lives, says Science: http://www.alternet.org/sex/150978/athei…
4
@1 I'm with you but later she says "in the first week I moved out"...so what the hell? Did she move out and she's paying the entire rent for this no account bum AND rent for her new place? Either way. Do what Dan said. Get whatever you can from this shithead and move on.
5
Actually, if she kept the reciepts she can go after him in small claims court. Then she gets her money or he gets a record.
6
Her name's probably on the lease, in which case making sure the rent gets paid is, in some ways at least, in her best interests.
She needs to talk to the landlord and take care of that pronto, though. Leases can be amended.
She needs to talk to the landlord and take care of that pronto, though. Leases can be amended.
7
@1: "Is she not living there any more? Is he living there and she's paying for it, or ... what the heck is going on?"
That's exactly what seems to be happening. Can't hurt his fee-fees, now.
"He's never held down a job and is directionless"
Obviously, paying the rent is going to fix all this.
That's exactly what seems to be happening. Can't hurt his fee-fees, now.
"He's never held down a job and is directionless"
Obviously, paying the rent is going to fix all this.
8
Yeah, the details are a little confusing, but the gist of it remains the same: This guy's a deadbeat loser, and the first order of business is definitely to Evict the Motherfucker Already.
I'd suggest that she spend a few minutes talking to a lawyer locally to make sure all the "Ts" get crossed and the "Is" get dotted. This can come back to haunt her if it's not done properly.
And, oh yeah, sue the fucker for what he owes while you're at it, if only for the personal satisfaction of making him squirm.
I'd suggest that she spend a few minutes talking to a lawyer locally to make sure all the "Ts" get crossed and the "Is" get dotted. This can come back to haunt her if it's not done properly.
And, oh yeah, sue the fucker for what he owes while you're at it, if only for the personal satisfaction of making him squirm.
9
I agree with Dan. If he has no money, suing him is just going to prolong the entanglement. Cut your losses, forgive the debt, start a new page. I went around in my twenties trying to collect all that was owed to me and it was a big waste of time and energy, and I never got the money anyway.
10
Kick the bum out, tell the landlord you're not paying for the lease anymore, and that he should look for new tenants. In most states, he has a legal obligation to do so. You can also do your own search for new tenants as well-- it's not a sublease (which most agreements do not allow) because they would be signing with the landlord rather than you. If a new tenant signs for your unit, you are off the hook for any remaining payments.(*)
The worst that can happen is that the landlord doesn't find anyone, and you end up paying for the remaining lease-- which you're doing now anyway. The best that can happen is that you or your landlord find a new tenant who takes over your lease, and you don't owe anything any more. You can even sweeten the pot for new tenants by offering to pay some fraction of the payments, if necessary. Needless to say, you have pretty much no chance of getting another tenant to move in if your loser ex-boyfriend is still hanging around.
(*)Aside: If you live in a multi-complex unit and your landlord is a dick, he may claim that the new tenants are filling other vacancies and not yours, and thus you're still on the hook. You may want to do some research into your state's landlord-tenant laws if you're worried about your landlord trying to fuck you over.
The worst that can happen is that the landlord doesn't find anyone, and you end up paying for the remaining lease-- which you're doing now anyway. The best that can happen is that you or your landlord find a new tenant who takes over your lease, and you don't owe anything any more. You can even sweeten the pot for new tenants by offering to pay some fraction of the payments, if necessary. Needless to say, you have pretty much no chance of getting another tenant to move in if your loser ex-boyfriend is still hanging around.
(*)Aside: If you live in a multi-complex unit and your landlord is a dick, he may claim that the new tenants are filling other vacancies and not yours, and thus you're still on the hook. You may want to do some research into your state's landlord-tenant laws if you're worried about your landlord trying to fuck you over.
11
It sounds to me like she moved out of their shared apartment, but kept it in her name and her ex-BF is in an illegal sublet situation (no emphasis on the "illegal", that's just what i'd call it if the landlord doesn't know)—probably arranged due to his credit, er, I mean "directionless lifestyle", situation, and her penchant for being taken advantage of.
There's no question you'll want to end this arrangement, but how all depends on some details. If my guess above is right—does your landlord know you moved out and he stayed? Simple, call the landlord and tell him that account is no longer valid to draw from. Make sure you're off the lease. Did you just get your own place and the ex is subletting from you and not on the lease? In that case, you'll probably have to give your landlord the minimum days notice (I'm guessing your original lease is up, based on saying you lived there 2 years together), tell your ex "hey dude, I'm giving notice to the landlord, you've got 30 days starting __."
Or, what #10 described, if that's the situation you're in.
Just don't put yourself in a situation that will fuck up your credit, and regardless of what you and the landlord talk about on the phone, send letters to their address stating as such via registered post for your records.
There's no question you'll want to end this arrangement, but how all depends on some details. If my guess above is right—does your landlord know you moved out and he stayed? Simple, call the landlord and tell him that account is no longer valid to draw from. Make sure you're off the lease. Did you just get your own place and the ex is subletting from you and not on the lease? In that case, you'll probably have to give your landlord the minimum days notice (I'm guessing your original lease is up, based on saying you lived there 2 years together), tell your ex "hey dude, I'm giving notice to the landlord, you've got 30 days starting __."
Or, what #10 described, if that's the situation you're in.
Just don't put yourself in a situation that will fuck up your credit, and regardless of what you and the landlord talk about on the phone, send letters to their address stating as such via registered post for your records.
12
P.S. The sooner you take care of this, the sooner you'll stop feeling you're complicating things with the new boy. It's OK to move on.
13
I don't understand this one at all. Since it's their "shared house", it sounds to me like they both still live there, but she moved out to a different room of the house. It's not clear she can legally evict him, though I agree that she should look into what her legal rights/responsibilities are.
But - where does she get off saying that he is being "violent and unthoughtful"? Aside from being financially irresponsible, has he done anything wrong by sleeping with his friend's girlfriend or being coupley with a new girl?
But - where does she get off saying that he is being "violent and unthoughtful"? Aside from being financially irresponsible, has he done anything wrong by sleeping with his friend's girlfriend or being coupley with a new girl?
14
Erica, if it's her name on the lease, she can absolutely evict him.
And I'll reconsider my advice about suing him. I sue people all the time - it's hardly a stressful, traumatic experience for me. But I'm sure it is for most people, and the chances of ever getting a nickel out of this lowlife are pretty small, so yeah, that might not be such a good idea.
And I'll reconsider my advice about suing him. I sue people all the time - it's hardly a stressful, traumatic experience for me. But I'm sure it is for most people, and the chances of ever getting a nickel out of this lowlife are pretty small, so yeah, that might not be such a good idea.
15
Isn't eviction a complicated process?
http://washingtonlandlordtenant.info/
This website says "Self-help eviction is illegal in Washington. This is true whether or not there was a written lease or rental agreement."
So I'm thinking her first step is to go talk to a lawyer...
http://washingtonlandlordtenant.info/
This website says "Self-help eviction is illegal in Washington. This is true whether or not there was a written lease or rental agreement."
So I'm thinking her first step is to go talk to a lawyer...
16
This lady is running around telling everyone her ex is "violent" because he slept with other women after their breakup? She's a nut.
See y'all at the SEAF after party Saturday evening.
See y'all at the SEAF after party Saturday evening.
18
Erica, it's pretty simple compared to a lot of things. Then again, I'm a lawyer. But that's one of the reasons why I recommended that she talk to a lawyer.
19
He's irresponsible, never held down a job, is directionless, unthoughtful and continues to live rent free in your old place, but you didn't see this coming?
Oh, TOT's, it's over, it's been over for a long time. As hard as it is to hear, he's not going to change so you need to change. Do yourself a favor and find a way to ETMFA TODAY.
Oh, TOT's, it's over, it's been over for a long time. As hard as it is to hear, he's not going to change so you need to change. Do yourself a favor and find a way to ETMFA TODAY.
23
The R and probably the first D are just for rhetorical consistency, before anyone suffers a loss of temper.
24
I dunno, the way I read the letter, she's more upset about him sleeping with these other girls and being "couply" then about the money aspect.
Hon, you broke up with him. He can sleep with anyone he wants to, without doing you wrong. Especially since you seem to be aiming to find an new BF yourself.
Get yourself free of financial entanglements with him, and move on.
Hon, you broke up with him. He can sleep with anyone he wants to, without doing you wrong. Especially since you seem to be aiming to find an new BF yourself.
Get yourself free of financial entanglements with him, and move on.
25
Wallow in your misery, LW. You lost my sympathy when you admitted that your boyfriend of four years never held a stable job. Just shows that your judgement has been lacking for a loooong time. Then you go and say that his behavior is "violent"...wtf?
26
To answer the question as I read it is it too soon to get involved with this new guy because of the drama: hell, no, just so long as you communicate with the new guy what he's getting into.
If this scares him off completely, you've found out sooner rather than later that he's not worth the trouble. If he sticks around and supports you, you've got yourself a relationship with a guy who isn't a directionless loser.
If you break up with him because of your ex boyfriend, he might as well not be your ex anymore because he's still getting a say in your love life.
If this scares him off completely, you've found out sooner rather than later that he's not worth the trouble. If he sticks around and supports you, you've got yourself a relationship with a guy who isn't a directionless loser.
If you break up with him because of your ex boyfriend, he might as well not be your ex anymore because he's still getting a say in your love life.
27
Totally, totally agree with Dan. I made that exact same calculation 10 years ago over money my ex owed to the IRS but which was in both of our names. We actually put in the marital dissolution agreement that he acknowledged it was his and he agreed to pay it. I should have known that if he'd never paid for a damn thing in the 5 years we were married, or paid child support to his previous children, he wasn't going to start paying his debts now, but right then I was sick and damn tired of bailing him out. (Oh, and he had way underpaid taxes to avoid getting garnished for child support. Quality dude.)
After a couple years of excuses and bullshit and regular updates to (actually very nice!) IRS people, I realized that my life was SO MUCH BETTER without him that I would pay 10 times that amount to be rid of him, so I emptied my savings account to pay it and he was over. Best decision I could have made.
After a couple years of excuses and bullshit and regular updates to (actually very nice!) IRS people, I realized that my life was SO MUCH BETTER without him that I would pay 10 times that amount to be rid of him, so I emptied my savings account to pay it and he was over. Best decision I could have made.
28
TOT:
Get as far away from your ex as you possibly can. Get him out of your house, run, do not walk, do not pass go.
I dated a man like this for almost three years in college. I got pregnant. We got married, went on to have two more kids, and I lived with his violence, his threats, his irresponsibility, his emotional, spiritual, verbal and eventually physical abuse, his brandishing loaded weapons towards me and towards my children. My divorce took eighteen months and cost tens of thousands of dollars because of his abuse of me through the courts.
When he found out I was moving on to a better life, he found out who my boyfriend was, stalked him, poisoned his dogs, stalked me. I got a restraining order a year ago. I got nothing but debt, and to keep the house that we are upside down on in the mortgage. I am remarried, thank Christ for that. My new husband was also in an abusive marriage- it happens to men too. He escaped when his ex wife was convicted of Felony attempt to commit first degree homicide, when she tried to hire and under cover detective to murder him and collect on the insurance policy she had taken out on him.
My best friend from my very early life is a gay man. He was in an abusive relationship too. He was battered, and when he tried to escape from this relationship, his "lover" beat him so badly he was in a coma for several months. He survived, but he also learned that his ex also infected him with HIV, and after years of living with the virus, he's finally succumbing to it, so this asshole will wind up killing him after all.
I look over my shoulder every where I go. My ex was convicted of felony threats against me, it's still not likely he will go to jail for long. He's going to jail in a few weeks for failure to pay what little child support they imputed to him during the divorce.
Whatever this guy owes you, IT'S NOT WORTH IT.
You are young. Get him gone, move away, get away, run as fast and as far as you can, do not look back, do not let him contact you in any way. TRUST ME. I am 38 now and have been living in a cage for 17 years.
~ Been there, and then some.
More...
Get as far away from your ex as you possibly can. Get him out of your house, run, do not walk, do not pass go.
I dated a man like this for almost three years in college. I got pregnant. We got married, went on to have two more kids, and I lived with his violence, his threats, his irresponsibility, his emotional, spiritual, verbal and eventually physical abuse, his brandishing loaded weapons towards me and towards my children. My divorce took eighteen months and cost tens of thousands of dollars because of his abuse of me through the courts.
When he found out I was moving on to a better life, he found out who my boyfriend was, stalked him, poisoned his dogs, stalked me. I got a restraining order a year ago. I got nothing but debt, and to keep the house that we are upside down on in the mortgage. I am remarried, thank Christ for that. My new husband was also in an abusive marriage- it happens to men too. He escaped when his ex wife was convicted of Felony attempt to commit first degree homicide, when she tried to hire and under cover detective to murder him and collect on the insurance policy she had taken out on him.
My best friend from my very early life is a gay man. He was in an abusive relationship too. He was battered, and when he tried to escape from this relationship, his "lover" beat him so badly he was in a coma for several months. He survived, but he also learned that his ex also infected him with HIV, and after years of living with the virus, he's finally succumbing to it, so this asshole will wind up killing him after all.
I look over my shoulder every where I go. My ex was convicted of felony threats against me, it's still not likely he will go to jail for long. He's going to jail in a few weeks for failure to pay what little child support they imputed to him during the divorce.
Whatever this guy owes you, IT'S NOT WORTH IT.
You are young. Get him gone, move away, get away, run as fast and as far as you can, do not look back, do not let him contact you in any way. TRUST ME. I am 38 now and have been living in a cage for 17 years.
~ Been there, and then some.
29
@28 - See, that's what "so violent" looks like. Sorry your ex, your husband's ex and your friend's ex were all such total shit-heads, but thanks for posting.
And, thank god for all the undercover cops posing as contract killers and waiting to be hired by crazy spouses.
And, thank god for all the undercover cops posing as contract killers and waiting to be hired by crazy spouses.
30
Run him over with your car. It's a solution to your problems, and you'll feel much better having done it. Take it from someone on the internet.
31
It sounds like she never really broke anything off with the ex, just let him loose to do whatever he wants. On her dime. Cut him off already so you can start enjoying this new guy.
32
1. what does the letter writer want? Sounds sorta like she wants to know how to shelter new boy from fallout from old boy and their mutual friends, while she sorts out the separation.
2. He's not 'so violent' he's so 'douchey'. There IS a difference.
This letter sucks, and the response doesn't make sense. FAIL SLLOTD.
2. He's not 'so violent' he's so 'douchey'. There IS a difference.
This letter sucks, and the response doesn't make sense. FAIL SLLOTD.
33
As many others have noted:
"Violent?" Maybe it feels like emotional violence, but it hurts your credibility to call him violent, LW, which is already suffering from putting up with this lay-about for four years. He must have a big dick because he seems devoid of other redeeming qualities.
Try to stop the financial bleeding as soon as possible--lawyer, eviction, getting out of your lease--as other noted, do whatever it takes to cut financial ties to your ex. Your chance of getting what he owes you is close to zero, and you don't want to waste your 20's chasing a bad debt, so cut bait and apply the maxim 'live and learn.'
Your situation screams ghetto and/or trailer trash to me--if your new boy isn't paying his own rent, dump him and resolve to never again date someone who isn't supporting himself. Moochers ain't worth the grief, no matter how big his dick is or how well he uses it.
"Violent?" Maybe it feels like emotional violence, but it hurts your credibility to call him violent, LW, which is already suffering from putting up with this lay-about for four years. He must have a big dick because he seems devoid of other redeeming qualities.
Try to stop the financial bleeding as soon as possible--lawyer, eviction, getting out of your lease--as other noted, do whatever it takes to cut financial ties to your ex. Your chance of getting what he owes you is close to zero, and you don't want to waste your 20's chasing a bad debt, so cut bait and apply the maxim 'live and learn.'
Your situation screams ghetto and/or trailer trash to me--if your new boy isn't paying his own rent, dump him and resolve to never again date someone who isn't supporting himself. Moochers ain't worth the grief, no matter how big his dick is or how well he uses it.
34
I think everyone is overreacting, taking the word "violent" out of context. When I read it, all I thought the writer meant is "sudden and unexpected". She didn't call HIM violent, she said the way he started to act SEEMED violent, as in "shocking".
And I can also see her point in being mad at him for dating someone new: her ex is fucking his new girlfriend in the house she's paying for. Of course it must be irritating and humiliating, she's being taken for an idiot in her own face and the face of all their common friends. I also think that the ex telling the writer he's being fucking his own "friend"'s girlfriend was an annoying way to try and make her jealous. Otherwise, what would be the point of sharing such information?
And I can also see her point in being mad at him for dating someone new: her ex is fucking his new girlfriend in the house she's paying for. Of course it must be irritating and humiliating, she's being taken for an idiot in her own face and the face of all their common friends. I also think that the ex telling the writer he's being fucking his own "friend"'s girlfriend was an annoying way to try and make her jealous. Otherwise, what would be the point of sharing such information?
35
I'm not quite sure why the commentators are jumping on the LW for using "violent"... I took her using it as sort of poetic expression, or a less common definition of the word.
Definitions of violent:
1. marked or caused by great physical force or violence: a violent stab
2. (of a person) tending to the use of violence, esp in order to injure or intimidate others
3. marked by intensity of any kind: a violent clash of colours
4. characterized by an undue use of force; severe; harsh
5. caused by or displaying strong or undue mental or emotional force: a violent tongue
6. tending to distort the meaning or intent: a violent interpretation of the text
Definitions of violent:
1. marked or caused by great physical force or violence: a violent stab
2. (of a person) tending to the use of violence, esp in order to injure or intimidate others
3. marked by intensity of any kind: a violent clash of colours
4. characterized by an undue use of force; severe; harsh
5. caused by or displaying strong or undue mental or emotional force: a violent tongue
6. tending to distort the meaning or intent: a violent interpretation of the text
36
She needs to close her account (I live in NYC and I don't know anyone who has their rent automatically taken out of their checking account), move to a nice little studio apartment FAR FAR away, and let her X figure life out for himself. And oh, never speak to him again. He's a user. Period. She's not NEARLY as together as she thinks she is.
MOVE ON.
MOVE ON.
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