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News & ArtsWednesday, August 3, 2011
Religion / Books Slaughterhouse-Five Is Apparently "Contrary to the Bible" Now
Posted by Paul Constant on Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:12 PM
The board voted 4-0 recently to ban Slaughterhouse-Five and another book, Sarah Ockler’s Twenty Boy Summer, after a local resident complained...Wesley Scroggins had originally targeted three books, but the board voted to keep one, Laurie Halse Anderson’s award-winning Speak, on the shelves. According to the Springfield News-Leader, Scroggins “challenged the use of the books and lesson plans in Republic schools, arguing they teach principles contrary to the Bible.”
"Wesley Scroggins" practically sounds like a Vonnegut character. And, hey: Since Slaughterhouse-Five is one of the greatest anti-war books ever written, does that mean that the Bible is pro-war?
(Via Christian Nightmares.)
1
Wesley Scroggins sounds like the antagonist in a Mark Twain novel to me. He would get scammed by Huck Finn or something. Fitting since Missouri was the birthplace of Mr. Clemens. What a shame.
6
I was the most naive, sheltered kid in the world, and I read Slaughterhouse Five in ninth grade. I suffered no ill effects. The librarian at the local branch of the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh let me start reading books from the adult section when I was 10 as long as my mom OK'd them first, and I read some pretty grown-up things then. I hate censorship.
Also, on an unrelated note, the top video pick on the page with the original article is of a place called Glory Hole Falls. I thought you all would appreciate that, because I am going through a delayed adolescence now that I'm middle aged.
Also, on an unrelated note, the top video pick on the page with the original article is of a place called Glory Hole Falls. I thought you all would appreciate that, because I am going through a delayed adolescence now that I'm middle aged.
7
What I want to know is, when, precisely, did the American people get taken hostage by pinheads?
So now, any preposterously-named pinhead can have a knee-jerk reaction, and thereby get to negatively impact the education of hundreds, thousands of kids?
Okaaaaaay then....
So now, any preposterously-named pinhead can have a knee-jerk reaction, and thereby get to negatively impact the education of hundreds, thousands of kids?
Okaaaaaay then....
9
I'd like to see a little more oversight to what these school boards are able to do. We're making it too easy to create your own little bubble where thought can't penetrate and demented interpretations of the Bible reign supreme.
10
@8 Seriously.
We should start putting these stories up with phone numbers and addresses to be able to weigh in on these decisions.
We should start putting these stories up with phone numbers and addresses to be able to weigh in on these decisions.
12
@2 I'm not 100% positive it's from Slaughterhouse-Five, but I think there's a passage in there where he talks about how the sacrifice of Jesus wasn't a real sacrifice, since he already knew he was God, was telling everybody, & knew he had nothing to fear; and that the story would've had a much better moral id Jesus didn't know he was the son of God until after he was crucified.
15
Yes, in fact, the Bible is pro-war. It's pro-genocide, for that matter. The Bible lies on the exact opposite side of all the relevant issues from Slaughterhouse Five. In that respect, this idiot is correct.
It runs deeper than that, though. Vonnegut is a humanist writer. The Bible is deeply anti-human. The divide is fundamental. Anything that elevates man denigrates God; anything that elevates God must denigrate man. That is the nature of worship and subservience. Vonnegut believes that people are complex, and have rights, and that the universe is more complicated than "God is super cool." That is incompatible with Christianity.
I'm not offering a commentary on the whole "Establishment Clause" issue because I feel like that element is completely self-explanatory here.
It runs deeper than that, though. Vonnegut is a humanist writer. The Bible is deeply anti-human. The divide is fundamental. Anything that elevates man denigrates God; anything that elevates God must denigrate man. That is the nature of worship and subservience. Vonnegut believes that people are complex, and have rights, and that the universe is more complicated than "God is super cool." That is incompatible with Christianity.
I'm not offering a commentary on the whole "Establishment Clause" issue because I feel like that element is completely self-explanatory here.
16
"Since Slaughterhouse-Five is one of the greatest anti-war books ever written, does that mean that the Bible is pro-war?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkxvIaKs…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkxvIaKs…
17
Sarah Ockler is an old friend of mine - she's actually pretty happy the school board did something that stupid. She's been getting a lot of support (not to mention free publicity) from it.
18
@15
The bigotry and ignorance you show in one breathtaking swoop just amaze me.
Vonnegut didn't 'elevate man' in Slaughterhouse 5. Nor do most modern writers, sculptors, painters, architects or other artists. What they elevate is the mundane, the mediocre the unremarkable. Rather than celebrate exceptional people doing exceptional things in the humanist tradition, they glorify grocery shopping and showering and 2 McDonalds workers getting married. Gay, black McDonalds workers bound to a wheelchair and suffering mild retardation, of course.
The Bible asks of us to be better human. It is the polar opposite of denigrating humanity. It supposes a deity made the sacrifice of life and assumed all the guilt and pain of every human being out of love for created man. It supposes this sacrifice made necessary by the free will we all have to choose betterment or worsening of ourselves.
Now, you can accept or reject Christianity. Goes back to that free will thing. You can accept or reject a God of any kind. But to outright lie about it is just contemptible.
The bigotry and ignorance you show in one breathtaking swoop just amaze me.
Vonnegut didn't 'elevate man' in Slaughterhouse 5. Nor do most modern writers, sculptors, painters, architects or other artists. What they elevate is the mundane, the mediocre the unremarkable. Rather than celebrate exceptional people doing exceptional things in the humanist tradition, they glorify grocery shopping and showering and 2 McDonalds workers getting married. Gay, black McDonalds workers bound to a wheelchair and suffering mild retardation, of course.
The Bible asks of us to be better human. It is the polar opposite of denigrating humanity. It supposes a deity made the sacrifice of life and assumed all the guilt and pain of every human being out of love for created man. It supposes this sacrifice made necessary by the free will we all have to choose betterment or worsening of ourselves.
Now, you can accept or reject Christianity. Goes back to that free will thing. You can accept or reject a God of any kind. But to outright lie about it is just contemptible.
19
I'm going to take your butthurt as a compliment, Sb. I'm going to take the fact that you are offended by my rejection of a book that is nothing but a series of parables in which humans are reminded of how much they supposedly owe to an infinitely superior, paternalistic power - not at all unlike rhetoric offered to slaves, back in the day, to assure them that their obedience was virtuous - as an affirmation.
And I can't help but notice you didn't address the war and/or genocide issue. The only good Samaritan is a dead Samaritan, after all.
And I can't help but notice you didn't address the war and/or genocide issue. The only good Samaritan is a dead Samaritan, after all.
20
Aptly named Balderdash,
So what's there to address with regard to war or genocide? Bad things, obviously. The first is occasionally a necessary and justifiable evil. The latter is never either necessary or justified and never anything but evil. See? In 3 sentences all that needs said has been said, and I didn't need a whole unreadable book to do it.
Actually- I don't have any particular interest in whether you accept or reject the Bible, Quran, Book of Rainbows and Unicorns or your dogmatic and fanatic atheism. Your call. Again, kinda what 'free will' means.
It's the stupidity of a provably false statement that offends me.
For me, aiming at a target I know I can't hit at least means I do better than aiming at nil. For me asking people to try to do better doesn't seem that denigrating of humanity. But then, I think humanity CAN do better, and atheists, particularly liberal atheists, don't.
And I guess I lack your awesome self possesion. Or callow youthfullness. I recognize that we are more than the sum of our parts, since my experience doesn't support the opposite conclusion. If you think that all you sense is all there is, I pity you more than I'm 'butthurt' by anything you might have to say.
So what's there to address with regard to war or genocide? Bad things, obviously. The first is occasionally a necessary and justifiable evil. The latter is never either necessary or justified and never anything but evil. See? In 3 sentences all that needs said has been said, and I didn't need a whole unreadable book to do it.
Actually- I don't have any particular interest in whether you accept or reject the Bible, Quran, Book of Rainbows and Unicorns or your dogmatic and fanatic atheism. Your call. Again, kinda what 'free will' means.
It's the stupidity of a provably false statement that offends me.
For me, aiming at a target I know I can't hit at least means I do better than aiming at nil. For me asking people to try to do better doesn't seem that denigrating of humanity. But then, I think humanity CAN do better, and atheists, particularly liberal atheists, don't.
And I guess I lack your awesome self possesion. Or callow youthfullness. I recognize that we are more than the sum of our parts, since my experience doesn't support the opposite conclusion. If you think that all you sense is all there is, I pity you more than I'm 'butthurt' by anything you might have to say.
21
How did I know that Seattleblah would chime in here, other than it's a post that's custom made for a priggish blowhard with only the most basic understanding of theology?
But I err: After all, we should foster and nurture his presence here for his children's sake: the more time he spends bloviating on Slog, the less they have to listen to the old windbag.
But I err: After all, we should foster and nurture his presence here for his children's sake: the more time he spends bloviating on Slog, the less they have to listen to the old windbag.
22
See above.
And it's funny how you casually dismiss the genocide angle. What exactly do you know about, say, the Amalekites or the Midianites? Just to name two?
And I'm curious what "provably false statement" you mean, exactly. We might have different definitions of "provable."
...In that mine requires evidence and yours apparently requires... I don't know? Wishes and fairy dust? What's "provably false" about a literary interpretation? Do tell.
And it's funny how you casually dismiss the genocide angle. What exactly do you know about, say, the Amalekites or the Midianites? Just to name two?
And I'm curious what "provably false statement" you mean, exactly. We might have different definitions of "provable."
...In that mine requires evidence and yours apparently requires... I don't know? Wishes and fairy dust? What's "provably false" about a literary interpretation? Do tell.
23
@18: You need to (re)read your Vonnegut if you think he celebrates the mundane rather than the human. His stories are anything BUT mundane. I'd suggest "God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater" for you.
24
Hey SB, you know that your comments on this thread actually support @ 15's assertions, don't you?
25
@ 23, SB's comments are those of one who felt he was forced to read this liberal novelist in college. Actually, most of his posts reveal someone who was scarred by the whole collegiate experience, what with all those liberal professors heaping scorn on unsuspecting con kids...
26
Wesley scroggins associate professor @ missouri state
His contact info here
http://coba.missouristate.edu/61583.htm
Since he has no problem impressing his opinion on our youth feel free to impress your opinion on him
What a douche!
His contact info here
http://coba.missouristate.edu/61583.htm
Since he has no problem impressing his opinion on our youth feel free to impress your opinion on him
What a douche!
27
Anyone who doesn't like Texas gal Valerie Perrine as Montana Wildcat is sick...SICK I tell you!
http://community.klipsch.com/forums/stor…
28
I keep a Bible in the john. Lots of pages. Very economical. The thin sheets aren't very efficient, but it doesn't matter. Justice is its own reward.
29
@15. Well said! Vonnegut's brand of compassionate, honest humanism is an example I strive to live up to.
It is ridiculous to take him out of high schools. No one needs to hear/read truth (as in little "t" truth, not big "T" Truth) more than teens.
It is ridiculous to take him out of high schools. No one needs to hear/read truth (as in little "t" truth, not big "T" Truth) more than teens.
31
"Rather than celebrate exceptional people doing exceptional things in the humanist tradition, they glorify ...Gay, black McDonalds workers bound to a wheelchair and suffering mild retardation, of course."
>> So in your world, anyone who is gay, black, poor, in a wheel chair, or suffering mild retardation, is unworthty of the attention? Should be invisible? I just want to be be clear where you stand?
Also, please site some works I can google of arts and media that DO celebrate exceptional people doing exceptional things? In the internet age, someone must be doing it. I want to see what you would value.
>> So in your world, anyone who is gay, black, poor, in a wheel chair, or suffering mild retardation, is unworthty of the attention? Should be invisible? I just want to be be clear where you stand?
Also, please site some works I can google of arts and media that DO celebrate exceptional people doing exceptional things? In the internet age, someone must be doing it. I want to see what you would value.
32
The Bible is a fatally flawed mythology filled with the hate and blood lust of an ancient people. It should not be used to determine our lives anymore than Greek mythology.
34
The biggest issue of Slaughter House is the negation of the concept of free will, which I've heard, is (ironically) a cornerstone of several religious movements. It is also extremely uncofortable for the time-travelers among us.
You might want to check my article on the topic:
http://www.vladimirkokorev.com/slaughter…
You might want to check my article on the topic:
http://www.vladimirkokorev.com/slaughter…
35
I would imagine that the absence of free will is a major issue of Slaughter House for some religious organizations who kind of promote free will, as long as such will is employed to subscribe to their own organization. Not pointing fingers at anyone.
It also might depress any wanna-be-time-travelers. Just written a piece on that: http://www.vladimirkokorev.com/slaughter…
It also might depress any wanna-be-time-travelers. Just written a piece on that: http://www.vladimirkokorev.com/slaughter…
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