Slog
News & ArtsWednesday, October 12, 2011
Housekeeping I'm Sorry for My Small Role in the Great Andrew Meyer Pogrom of 2011
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 5:44 PM
In my defense: I didn't finger the guy—he he, finger the guy—I accepted the eye witness/stiffee's ID and blogged and linked. My post amplified the stiffed bartender's misidentification and that made things worse for all those innocent Andrew Meyers out there, may they rest in peace. And I'm sorry for that—but only for that.
1
Trying to get someone fired for a stupid comment on a reciept is an abusive of your position. Reporting on facebook posts is a disgrace to your profession. You might also own up to some catty weight comments made in the past.
2
Better than nothing, but may I point out that you reached many more people than Victoria Liss's FB page did? "Small role" my fanny. And the defiant "that - and only that" statement. Not necessary.
That said, I forgive you, Dan.
That said, I forgive you, Dan.
3
What happened? Is there something back in the original post that says? Could I maybe just go look that up instead of posting this inane comment?
4
I'm not impressed, Dan. My opinion of you has changed. Forever. And I've been a BIG fan. Show some humility, for god's sake!
:-(, :-(, and more :-(
:-(, :-(, and more :-(
7
Let's not remove the primary blame from where it belongs. The original douchetard Andrew Meyer is still the one responsible for the whole mess, including (at least in part) the collateral damage to his namesakes.
8
Christ, nice way to change the headline of the post to be even more obnoxious. Sorry, I'm taking my forgiveness back, because three fucking instances of petulance means the apology is completely insincere.
Someday I'll understand how someone who can be such an awesome advice columnist and righteous gay rights leader can also be a big fucking 47 year old baby, too. That day is not today.
Someday I'll understand how someone who can be such an awesome advice columnist and righteous gay rights leader can also be a big fucking 47 year old baby, too. That day is not today.
9
Dan shouldn't you be more sensitive with regard to online bullying? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST you are an extreme narcissist and a hypocrite.
14
Has anyone considered that the tip was appropriate?
I dine out a lot and in the last 20 years, I have left a zero tip maybe 5 times, and each time is was appropriate.
I dine out a lot and in the last 20 years, I have left a zero tip maybe 5 times, and each time is was appropriate.
15
@11 not can't, but won't. He could. He could do it. But he won't. Because deep down, in spite of his recent anti-bullying campaign, Dan is, himself, a bully. Tried and true. He's shown it again and again on Slog. And as a bully, he simply won't lower himself to make a genuine or sincere apology. Ever.
17
@14 it's not about the 0 tip.
I know a lot of us are Dan Trolls, but I don't really see how he's such a bad person for the post - it was posted elsewhere (not just on facebook, but on jezebel and the Seattle PI) and he didn't say "go get 'em" - just commented on the story in progress.
the line out posts, on the other hand..
I know a lot of us are Dan Trolls, but I don't really see how he's such a bad person for the post - it was posted elsewhere (not just on facebook, but on jezebel and the Seattle PI) and he didn't say "go get 'em" - just commented on the story in progress.
the line out posts, on the other hand..
18
In the course of life we occasionally step in it. How we handle it speaks volumes about our character. Unfortunately, Dan has proven himself - on more than one occasion - to be petulant and graceless when he steps in it. I've lost a lot of respect for him because of this.
21
I feel like the primary person who needs to apologize is the asshat who left the snarky comment after stiffing the server & pilfering the tip jar too. Had that not happened, Dan would not have helped to turn a selfish act from an insensitive & thieving pos into an international event. Knowing that Dan didn't start the fire, I'm satisfied with his response....knowing that he has learned from his error. Wonder if the guilty party who cannot spell, does not always tip & sometimes steals will ever apologize to Victoria or the many others who share his name? Seems like (to me, anyway) that Dan has performed a public service for the untold numbers of folks out there in the world who forget how truly creepy social media has made us as a society become. Dan has reminded the world that if you are going to be a dick & don't want it ever traced back to you.....just be NICE.
22
@8:
Look, Dan is clearly semi-repentant. There's no need to viciously add 20 years to his age.
...someone who can be such an awesome advice columnist and righteous gay rights leader can also be a big fucking 47 year old baby, too
Look, Dan is clearly semi-repentant. There's no need to viciously add 20 years to his age.
23
No, the asshat isn't to blame for ANY OF THIS. The stupid bartender should have either blown off the incident or confronted the guy next time he came in. She caused concrete problems for real people, she hurt her own reputation, and has made me and others never want to revisit the two businesses she works for. If I were her employer I'd be tempted to fire her. Dan didn't commit a crime, but he did amplify the bartender's stupidity. I genuinely hope he gets burned in this so he thinks twice before he does this kind of thing again (that is if he wants to maintain some kind of public career. But I know that won't happen and the non-existent ethical system that governs blog journalism will continue.
24
I love the word "pogrom".
and whatever...I have plenty of friends whom I'd like to see apologize for this flame war over Dan Savage.
and whatever...I have plenty of friends whom I'd like to see apologize for this flame war over Dan Savage.
25
If Dan wants a real career and doesn't want to piss away all the good will he's generated over It Gets Better, he'd be well advised to stay out of the petty daily interactions of average people. There are public figures that can and should be held accountable. Getting involved with a small-time dispute between two people is unprofessional and the kind of thing that can become a real career-destroying scandal.
26
26: Seriously. He's lucky this transgression just resulted in a few hard feelings and some cheap laughs.
29
Dan, no respect for bringing this to anyone's attention; a person leaving no tip and a snarky comment is news? If it's really so important to you I daresay you could spend the rest of your life writing about nothing else.
Of course your post said "Go get him." Why else would have posted his full name, and what you thought was his place of employment?
Not leaving a tip and making rude comments is simply not the worst things in the world. And rude comments are the easiest thing to deflect. Adults know that people who make rude comments are generally immature; mature people can shrug a rude comment off.
The waitress took it to a level that was entirely inappropriate, and did herself and her business a disservice. Then everyone leaps on the wrong man; threats of actual bodily harm were posted. Who knows what messages they may have sent privately. Maybe they screwed up his email or phone; maybe a prospective employer saw the comments on the FB page. Maybe he's now being stalked. Maybe he'll be physically attacked. And you don't sound sympathetic at all.
How do you even know the waitress didn't write that comment on the slip herself, to make her complaint more "valid"?
I guess you only have empathy for people you like. If it's a gay teen being bullied, that's bad. But you don't like "Andrew" so it's okay to bully him. Hypocrite.
I'd have felt sorry for that waitress if she hadn't gone online about it. But slapping the guy back so harshly about it, tagging the wrong person, and sounding about as sorry about it as you do was just wrong. It made such a big fuss out of something so minor. She's worse than he is, really. As are you.
Of course your post said "Go get him." Why else would have posted his full name, and what you thought was his place of employment?
Not leaving a tip and making rude comments is simply not the worst things in the world. And rude comments are the easiest thing to deflect. Adults know that people who make rude comments are generally immature; mature people can shrug a rude comment off.
The waitress took it to a level that was entirely inappropriate, and did herself and her business a disservice. Then everyone leaps on the wrong man; threats of actual bodily harm were posted. Who knows what messages they may have sent privately. Maybe they screwed up his email or phone; maybe a prospective employer saw the comments on the FB page. Maybe he's now being stalked. Maybe he'll be physically attacked. And you don't sound sympathetic at all.
How do you even know the waitress didn't write that comment on the slip herself, to make her complaint more "valid"?
I guess you only have empathy for people you like. If it's a gay teen being bullied, that's bad. But you don't like "Andrew" so it's okay to bully him. Hypocrite.
I'd have felt sorry for that waitress if she hadn't gone online about it. But slapping the guy back so harshly about it, tagging the wrong person, and sounding about as sorry about it as you do was just wrong. It made such a big fuss out of something so minor. She's worse than he is, really. As are you.
32
I figure it was a good tip. It could save her life - look at her facebook page, she is fat. America seems to be on this bender to redefine fat as being ok, when it's really, really not. Fat is bad, fat kills, and friends don't let friends live fat.
The only thing Andrew is guilty of is a lack of tact.
The only thing Andrew is guilty of is a lack of tact.
35
This is rich.
Dan's snarky smug shitass advice to Andrew: "my point; that we live in a different world now. Be an asshole if you like, treat people like shit, accuse someone falsely. But you might not want to write your assholery down and post it and sign your name to it, you know? Because the Internet"
wow.
talk about biting yourself in the ass.....
Dan's snarky smug shitass advice to Andrew: "my point; that we live in a different world now. Be an asshole if you like, treat people like shit, accuse someone falsely. But you might not want to write your assholery down and post it and sign your name to it, you know? Because the Internet"
wow.
talk about biting yourself in the ass.....
36
Dan's original post was not really about what did or did not happen in that bar, but about the way anonymity can no longer be assumed - it's no longer as easy to be an asshole with impunity. Nothing in what has since happened makes that point any less true.
I live in a small town. Dropped my car off to get new tires, the guy says "I'll give you a ride home, I'm going by your place anyway" - I've never seen him before, but he knows where I live. Go into a restaurant I eat at maybe once every three years, and the cook says "agony's order's ready" when my food comes up. That's just what it's like, living in a small town; we take it into account when we think about acting like assholes. We know that we won't get away with it.
Dan was pointing out that the wider world is becoming more like a small town. He's right, and I don't really see that he has much to apologize for.
I live in a small town. Dropped my car off to get new tires, the guy says "I'll give you a ride home, I'm going by your place anyway" - I've never seen him before, but he knows where I live. Go into a restaurant I eat at maybe once every three years, and the cook says "agony's order's ready" when my food comes up. That's just what it's like, living in a small town; we take it into account when we think about acting like assholes. We know that we won't get away with it.
Dan was pointing out that the wider world is becoming more like a small town. He's right, and I don't really see that he has much to apologize for.
37
@19 and 20, Stiff means no tip. It also means you're a douche, but not a criminal.
@32, Yes, I"m sure she's making changes today based on his helpfully intended advice. Because everytime someone calls somone else fat, it's only meant to be helpful--so this must be the first time she's ever heard such sage advice, otherwise she'd be skinny by now! Especially brave when left behind on a note. Not cowardly at all.
It's all about intent. no tip, and a cowardly insult left on the bill? He meant to hurt her. A mean, petty little man who didn't have the guts to complain to her face.
@32, Yes, I"m sure she's making changes today based on his helpfully intended advice. Because everytime someone calls somone else fat, it's only meant to be helpful--so this must be the first time she's ever heard such sage advice, otherwise she'd be skinny by now! Especially brave when left behind on a note. Not cowardly at all.
It's all about intent. no tip, and a cowardly insult left on the bill? He meant to hurt her. A mean, petty little man who didn't have the guts to complain to her face.
38
@35? What the hell? He didn't accuse someone. This is a blog. Where other blogs and weird news of the day is noted. For all those who've ever waited a table, Dan passed it along. I freaking loved it.
39
Regarding all the references to online bullying showing up, I would hope that people could recognize the difference between (a) a teenager in a vulnerable period of life and an adult, and (b) someone being bullied for who they are vs. shamed for what they've done.
40
@36: "Dan was pointing out that the wider world is becoming more like a small town."
god, I hope not, small towns are usually banal, boring, limiting, backbiting and petty tiresome shit ass places to be. sort of like facebook.
god, I hope not, small towns are usually banal, boring, limiting, backbiting and petty tiresome shit ass places to be. sort of like facebook.
42
37: She's also an attention-hungry idiot who didn't think about the consequences of her actions. Fuck her. I hope she gets fired.
43
36: Yeah, here come the rationalizations and the apologists.
Much in the same way that people with authority shouldn't be allowed to intrude into people's sex lives, people with authority shouldn't be allowed to intervene in a one-on-one tip dispute.
Much in the same way that people with authority shouldn't be allowed to intrude into people's sex lives, people with authority shouldn't be allowed to intervene in a one-on-one tip dispute.
44
Portland Scribe, I'm not buying it. Dan posted the guy's full name, where he believed the guy to work, and said point-blank that he stiffed a Capitol Hill bartender. He didn't even say 'allegedly'. That's accusing someone.
He linked to the FB where all of this was going on, including the mis-identification of some poor schmoe with the same name. Without any corroboration, this was reckless. It contributed to the schmoe's struggles.
I agree with Agony's point that Dan was trying to get at the idea that in a world with less anonymity, being a jerk in public can have public consequences. However, by irresponsibly linking to the FB page and using the guy's whole name, Dan fueled the fire. He also altered his post, first using strike-throughs and then simply deleting some inflammatory material. This isn't illegal, but it is unprofessional, unethical, and slimy.
Housekeeping--not Retraction. 'Small Role' . "he he, finger the guy" 52-80's right; this is a nonpology.
He linked to the FB where all of this was going on, including the mis-identification of some poor schmoe with the same name. Without any corroboration, this was reckless. It contributed to the schmoe's struggles.
I agree with Agony's point that Dan was trying to get at the idea that in a world with less anonymity, being a jerk in public can have public consequences. However, by irresponsibly linking to the FB page and using the guy's whole name, Dan fueled the fire. He also altered his post, first using strike-throughs and then simply deleting some inflammatory material. This isn't illegal, but it is unprofessional, unethical, and slimy.
Housekeeping--not Retraction. 'Small Role' . "he he, finger the guy" 52-80's right; this is a nonpology.
46
@34 - We don't know what she said/did to him to cause this. It's very possible that he was entirely out of line in writing this on the tip line. Which would, as I said, be a lack of tact. Or, it could be that she insulted him, gave him crap service, and went on a power trip while serving him. In which case I think the tip is awesome just to get her goat.
But that being said, she should put her pride away and recognize the tip for what it is - good advice. Unless she dies in an accident of some sort, her obesity will likely be the cause of her death at some point. This is the part that people seem to be missing. She Will Die from being fat. I'd say dealing with a bit of wounded pride should take priority over dying.
But that being said, she should put her pride away and recognize the tip for what it is - good advice. Unless she dies in an accident of some sort, her obesity will likely be the cause of her death at some point. This is the part that people seem to be missing. She Will Die from being fat. I'd say dealing with a bit of wounded pride should take priority over dying.
47
I'm glad you did it, the people here who aren't need to lighten the F up, the guy did a really nasty thing, you called him out on it, and it's your blog, so all the self righteous, faux indignant haters out there need to perhaps get some semblance of a life. What a bunch of whiny hypocrites. Not tipping someone and then insulting them on top of it? Andrew Meyer is a douche, and the people berating you for your blog post aren't much better. There.
48
"@44: "This isn't illegal, but it is unprofessional, unethical, and slimy."
aka; the "new media" model. it is what it is.
aka; the "new media" model. it is what it is.
49
@47 You only know one side of the story. What if she called him a stupid cunt/fag/piece of shit and spit in his food before coming to the table? Would you still think he wasn't justified in doing what he did?
We only know one side of the story. There is a reason why the courts give both sides a chance to explain their story in a situation - because listening to only one side of the story biases the listener.
We only know one side of the story. There is a reason why the courts give both sides a chance to explain their story in a situation - because listening to only one side of the story biases the listener.
51
Well, it's Dan's playground, he can do what he wants with it. I *personally* feel that some more fact-checking would have been advised before posting 4 facts about someone in the post's title, 2 of which turned out to be inaccurate. If the point was that the 'net can amplify things, fine, but on Victoria Liss's FB page, they were saying things like this guy deserved to get ass raped, or his throat slit. & I recognized a couple of the names from Slog, too. Click again to enlarge enough to read the FB comments.
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/ima…
Dan, I've been reading you since at least 1995, maybe before, I don't remember. & you have acquired the enviable 'net power of Flying Monkeys. I've seen the tone of your writing become a touch less strident while still maintaining its humor - & that's a fine line to walk. It's disingenuous to say you didn't send your monkeys after Andrew Meyer. Not in so many words, maybe.
If the point is, we're all online now & our words/actions can be seen, because the Internet..that also goes for the guy whose playground it is.
& now for something completely different. I hope.
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/ima…
Dan, I've been reading you since at least 1995, maybe before, I don't remember. & you have acquired the enviable 'net power of Flying Monkeys. I've seen the tone of your writing become a touch less strident while still maintaining its humor - & that's a fine line to walk. It's disingenuous to say you didn't send your monkeys after Andrew Meyer. Not in so many words, maybe.
If the point is, we're all online now & our words/actions can be seen, because the Internet..that also goes for the guy whose playground it is.
& now for something completely different. I hope.
52
BTW, I just noticed that Ms. Liss, on her FB, is in those comments. I guess Barry is her boss. She said: .."Also, Barry said I could hit them if they came back..! Well, he said, "I wouldn't write you up if..."
***
Ya know, I'm a chubby chick who used to tend bar. I heard some things about my weight. I also got some mad fat tips. *shrug* There were good days & bad days. I think what the Bad Andrew did was crappy, but frankly, I don't think much of the response, either. I woulda been so fired if I did something like that in retaliation for a slight at work.
***
Ya know, I'm a chubby chick who used to tend bar. I heard some things about my weight. I also got some mad fat tips. *shrug* There were good days & bad days. I think what the Bad Andrew did was crappy, but frankly, I don't think much of the response, either. I woulda been so fired if I did something like that in retaliation for a slight at work.
53
oh man, i agree with dan, but this is a lame apology. dan was reporting on something that was a thing. people were interested in it, and it was local. he should have used the word "alleged," and maybe he didn't have to focus so much on the "this is the guy" part. and that -- and only that -- is what dan should apologize for. just like he says. only, what a spiteful apology. eh, oh well.
54
If I were in the service industry & knew that I had mistreated a customer, who in turn left me no tip & a smart ass note, I shrug it off. I don't know for certain what happened, yet I cannot fathom making it a big deal if I had done my job, hence, I suspect that when Victoria shared what happened with co-workers & then the general public, it came from a sense of being mistreated. Agony nailed it (from my perspective) in post #36. Corydon also gets it, see post # 39.
55
47: Yeah well I guess you hold public figures like Dan to any standards of conduct then. That's nice. Fox news fan by any chance?
56
47: It's also funny that you think the guy deserved it, when in fact the culprit was never caught. In other words, the target of all this wasn't even humbled. All this fire did was create a lot of smoke. I'm glad it makes you feel better to call some guy you don't know a doucheback based on the Internet hearsay though.
57
@54 Yeah, 39 might be true if it happened to be the RIGHT FUCKING GUY who was being harassed. Both of you missed the fucking point.
58
Is her facebook page now "temporarily unavailable" or did Jezebel just disable the links to it? And if the latter, why?
59
The point isn't whether or not the bartender was justified in posting the guy's receipt. The point is that they fingered the wrong guy, Dan helped spread the word, and now he doesn't even have the decency to apologize.
60
I think we just put that one WAAAAY behind us and try never to repeat it. It was ugly, all of it.
61
@60 yep. Move on! I've bartended, and why does everyone have to tip? They don't. Most tip, but few, very few, don't and that's ok with me. Why don't we tip OTHER minimum-wage service workers? Fast-food, murder-marts, theatre staff- those people work hard and help us, why not tip them? What's so sacred about a draft beer, or a coffee?
62
@61 What's interesting is that I lived in Japan for 11 years. In Japan there is no tipping. None expected, none given, and no complaints - and the service is consistent across the board. There are a million reasons for this I would imagine, but it definitely made me look at tipping in a different light when I moved back to the homeland. Now I only tip for good service (and I tip pretty well for good service). If the service is mediocre, I may throw down a pittance, but if it's bad, they get nothing.
@54 - you are projecting your motivations onto the girl herself. Maybe you are right - maybe she did nothing wrong and therefore felt mistreated. But you cannot know that - maybe she was the rudest waitress ever, and he decided to get her back in a way that made him laugh. We really have no way of knowing without hearing his side of the story (which as far as I know, we haven't).
@54 - you are projecting your motivations onto the girl herself. Maybe you are right - maybe she did nothing wrong and therefore felt mistreated. But you cannot know that - maybe she was the rudest waitress ever, and he decided to get her back in a way that made him laugh. We really have no way of knowing without hearing his side of the story (which as far as I know, we haven't).
63
Dan is a hypocritical, self-righteous cunt who might as well get a job working for Fox.
There is no defense, you are a world-class douche.
There is no defense, you are a world-class douche.
64
Holy shit. Whether or not you got the correct 'Andrew Meyer' is irrelevant. You need to apologize for enticing cyber bullying PERIOD. Your fans will forgive.
65
Like it's anyone's fucking business if she is fat. Jesus.
Tip your bartender, or there will be consequences: sometimes you'll get watered down drinks, sometimes the Internet will collectively call you an asshole.
Tip your bartender, or there will be consequences: sometimes you'll get watered down drinks, sometimes the Internet will collectively call you an asshole.
66
As a former tarbender and server, I'm sad that I'm traveling this week and missed a bunch of this. I saw the original post and thought "right on!" Then didn't think of it until this morning driving on the 10, when I heard Kennedy (yes, her) declare Andrew Meyer her "douche of the day" and recount the story. Then tonight in San Francisco, my delightfully Russian server at 21 Am complained about "the Europeans" at the next table, who complained that she was rude and ignored them (she was hovering over them, so what?) When I told her the Meyer story, she laughed and declared that table her "thee douche of da veek". So, whatever the story was, it brightened my day (local story on radio while I'm out of town missing home) and delighted a totally cute Russian gaygirl server in San Francisco, who was unfairly maligned by one of her tables.
67
It's a serious character flaw not to be able to sincerely apologize and truthfully own up to one's part in wrongdoing. I used to be a fan of Dan's. Not anymore.
70
@47 thank you for putting it so eloquently.
and I love those faux clutching-my-pearl-necklace-and-rolling-my-eyes attitude... Wonder if some one had left the following remark... "you could be less faggy if you want to" I wonder what the self righteous @1 @8 @18 @67 ....would have done...
and I love those faux clutching-my-pearl-necklace-and-rolling-my-eyes attitude... Wonder if some one had left the following remark... "you could be less faggy if you want to" I wonder what the self righteous @1 @8 @18 @67 ....would have done...
71
Oh, for Pete's sake. I don't understand this "kill the messenger" attitude. But, whatever. I think we can all use this to learn a few things about people and ourselves. Let's hope, anyway.
72
@ 71, because his role was not merely that of a messenger; messengers don't add editorial comments that implicitly approve of the actions being taken. And if you still believe that it was simply a matter of being a messenger, then there's still the bit about him taking Liss at her word, without verification.
As I said way up top, I was ready to forgive - until Dan changed the headline, calling it a "pogrom" and showing he didn't really take this seriously at all. (The original headline featured no such word.)
I'm not going to waste time on persuading the usual sycophants, but Vince, you really seem to have a big moral blind spot here.
As I said way up top, I was ready to forgive - until Dan changed the headline, calling it a "pogrom" and showing he didn't really take this seriously at all. (The original headline featured no such word.)
I'm not going to waste time on persuading the usual sycophants, but Vince, you really seem to have a big moral blind spot here.
73
Lol at all the Dan-bashers not getting their fill in the 300+ posts of the last thread and coming back for more self-righteous scolding because his apology wasn't abject enough or broad enough. I think they probably ought to do a little self-examination and admit to themselves that no apology would have sated their indignation; if Dan had been completely abject; they would be criticizing him for taking so long, or not personally delivering his apology to the wrongly harassed Andrew Meyers. Some of them may also want to see a counselor for evaluation of their splitting/black and white thinking "You were my hero Dan, but now I can see you are an evil villain. You've doen so much good in the world but with this one post you have betrayed me and your readers and IGB!"
What a bunch of tools. To paraprhase this weeks master of douchebaggery while applying his ire int eh right direction rather than the wrong one, you all could stand to lose a little priggishness, a little self-righteousness. And of course, if you are so horrified, Stop reading and posting.
You know what? A person gets to post about an asshole who ruined their day on their facebook page. That's part of what it's for. Some things go viral. This spark of Andrew Meyer assholery tapped a vein of indignation and blew up like a fire in a dry field of wheat. The cause remains the spark of assholery. The wind is merely the conditions which spread it.
And of course, the real douche Andrew Meyers could have stepped forward with his own apology at any time, but I suppose the kind of guy who leaves nasty little barbs to the server on his receipt lacks the courage.
What a bunch of tools. To paraprhase this weeks master of douchebaggery while applying his ire int eh right direction rather than the wrong one, you all could stand to lose a little priggishness, a little self-righteousness. And of course, if you are so horrified, Stop reading and posting.
You know what? A person gets to post about an asshole who ruined their day on their facebook page. That's part of what it's for. Some things go viral. This spark of Andrew Meyer assholery tapped a vein of indignation and blew up like a fire in a dry field of wheat. The cause remains the spark of assholery. The wind is merely the conditions which spread it.
And of course, the real douche Andrew Meyers could have stepped forward with his own apology at any time, but I suppose the kind of guy who leaves nasty little barbs to the server on his receipt lacks the courage.
74
No acknowledgement that what you did was akin to what you crusade against with It Gets Better?
You are a complete tool, Dan Savage. All puffed up with faggot pride as you lambast some innocent on the internet for messing with your precious popular bartender. I hope she gets canned for her part in this, since you're obviously not going to suffer any ill effects.
You are a complete tool, Dan Savage. All puffed up with faggot pride as you lambast some innocent on the internet for messing with your precious popular bartender. I hope she gets canned for her part in this, since you're obviously not going to suffer any ill effects.
75
Oh, and an apology offered with conditions is not a sincere apology. It is just simply bullshit excuses. And it's not accepted. Try again, and try to put more effort into it next time.
76
Meh, the only people attacking you for it are those who attack you for being gay/not constantly praising their jeebus/for being sex positive.
Anyone with with a clue knows the right Andrew Meyers deserves it. Of course I think someone could have verified which one they were talking about.
Anyone with with a clue knows the right Andrew Meyers deserves it. Of course I think someone could have verified which one they were talking about.
78
This is why Dan is dooming himself to irrelevance.
If he weren't such a small person, he'd be a fantastic spokesman for the LGBT community. Instead, he's petty, he can't control his mouth, and he thinks insincerity is funny. A handful of appearances on the teevee that he always derides, and that'll be it. He'll be back to giving relationship advice, which is a great pursuit, but when you think what he might've been able to contribute to the national discussion...
It's going to have to be someone else.
If he weren't such a small person, he'd be a fantastic spokesman for the LGBT community. Instead, he's petty, he can't control his mouth, and he thinks insincerity is funny. A handful of appearances on the teevee that he always derides, and that'll be it. He'll be back to giving relationship advice, which is a great pursuit, but when you think what he might've been able to contribute to the national discussion...
It's going to have to be someone else.
79
@39: Have you noticed all the people who were being bullied just for having the name Andrew Meyer? Does that not count as "being bullied for who they are?" You almost had a point there.
80
lol again
Way to prove my point, orcas.
But please don't feel you now have to post another five indignant posts responding to me and bashing Dan some more. :)
Way to prove my point, orcas.
But please don't feel you now have to post another five indignant posts responding to me and bashing Dan some more. :)
81
@68: Oh, her little half-apology got reposted too. Still not fired, I see. What a shame. I liked Bimbo's, but there are burritos elsewhere with much less childish waitstaff.
83
78 FTinsightfulW
It is inevitable that a smug asshole prick will self destruct;
Dan's meltdown on Mayer where he fantasized about raping Santorum was his last appearance on TV, this is another embarrassing nail in the coffin of his attention whore 15 minutes....
It is inevitable that a smug asshole prick will self destruct;
Dan's meltdown on Mayer where he fantasized about raping Santorum was his last appearance on TV, this is another embarrassing nail in the coffin of his attention whore 15 minutes....
84
O.M.G....
Did our little danny Bear False Witness?!
That's a commandment, danny.
And it's way worse than buttsex or raping your kid.
'cause there ain't no commandments about buttsex or raping your kid.
You might as well rape the kid when he gets home from school, danny.
It wouldn't be as bad as Bearing False Witness.
Did our little danny Bear False Witness?!
That's a commandment, danny.
And it's way worse than buttsex or raping your kid.
'cause there ain't no commandments about buttsex or raping your kid.
You might as well rape the kid when he gets home from school, danny.
It wouldn't be as bad as Bearing False Witness.
85
Can't believe you'd use the word "pogrom" to describe this. Do you know what real pogroms were? Learn some history and have some sensitivity to men and women and children who were raped and murdered.
86
The bullying that's taking place (again) in this very blog is worse than what happened between the bartender and the bar patron. IMO.
This seems like the modern day version of a public stoning, and it's making a lot of us kinda sick to our stomachs. Please stop the verbal abuse.
We can be better people than this.
This seems like the modern day version of a public stoning, and it's making a lot of us kinda sick to our stomachs. Please stop the verbal abuse.
We can be better people than this.
87
can someone please link what the fuck happened? I saw the original post with the receipt pic and now this, but nothing in between.
88
@72 On the original post I said I thought it was all petty and vindictive. What I saw Dan's post saying was look out if you are going to be an asshole to people and leave your I.D. with them because they will try to get revenge on the social network. I never saw Dan saying "Go get him". It was an interesting story for it's modern implications. But the vitriol spewed directly at Dan makes me think the intentions of his attackers are far from pure themselves.
89
Thank you for the links to the facebook comments, Eva. As one of the flying monkeys from way back, I smiled to see a commenter with Dan's babydaddy's stage name for a handle saying he had pitched the story to Dan. While that doesn't fix the problems with the original story, it does suggest this could be sort of a family kerfuffle, which I can't help but think is kinda sweet.
90
73: Yeah bro, we're a bunch of tools because we don't go on random crusades against innocent people based on the account of an unreliable woman. You're so righteous and in charge bro willing to go out there and make a fool of yourself over a random chick on the Internet! Rock on!
91
This a good example of why mob justice, digital lynch mobs or whatever you call them is a bad idea.
92
And I should point out in case someone doesn't read those comments from facebook, Terry's comments leave no doubt he was concerned right from the start about the consequences of bullying the wrong Andrew. He asked her very clearly if she knew which Andrew it was.
93
let's direct some of this energy toward finding THESE FUCKERS:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=173_13185…
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=173_13185…
94
@ 88, it wasn't exactly "go get him," but it wasn't exactly "Oh, here's something interesting that's going on." There was tacit approval of what was going on, as evidenced by all the info originally included in the post, and Dan's "hey, shit happens to jerks on the internet" tone. He became part of the story when he posted it.
Honestly, that's not what's infuriating, though. What's infuriating is that he made a mistake and isn't owning it. He's offering a fauxpology, making light of the damage caused by the flames he helped fan and showing all the maturity of a 9 year old who put his chewing gum in another kid's hair.
Over the years, I've come to accept that this is part of who he is. We can't have Dan, the guy who made Rick Santorum an unelectable joke, without Dan, the guy who constantly jumps the gun before getting all the facts. Dan, who co-created (and probably deserves sole credit for making possible) the It Gets Better project, which likely was motivated by the same impulse that made him smear a King5 reporter as a goat fucker when she issued a sloppy story. His good work is so good that I just have to take the shit too.
Like I said, I hope to someday understand this; maybe it won't piss me off so much then.
Honestly, that's not what's infuriating, though. What's infuriating is that he made a mistake and isn't owning it. He's offering a fauxpology, making light of the damage caused by the flames he helped fan and showing all the maturity of a 9 year old who put his chewing gum in another kid's hair.
Over the years, I've come to accept that this is part of who he is. We can't have Dan, the guy who made Rick Santorum an unelectable joke, without Dan, the guy who constantly jumps the gun before getting all the facts. Dan, who co-created (and probably deserves sole credit for making possible) the It Gets Better project, which likely was motivated by the same impulse that made him smear a King5 reporter as a goat fucker when she issued a sloppy story. His good work is so good that I just have to take the shit too.
Like I said, I hope to someday understand this; maybe it won't piss me off so much then.
95
Speaking of Santorum, did Miss Savage consider the fact that her witty little campaign to make a joke out of the name "Santorum" might hurt a whole family including kids?
Of course not.
Don't forget readers - Danielle is not a journalist, she was a theater major. It's all about the drama, ethics be damned
Of course not.
Don't forget readers - Danielle is not a journalist, she was a theater major. It's all about the drama, ethics be damned
97
Gotta agree with Matt from Denver. Dan's a great writer and a great spokesman for the LGBT community, but he also uses his platform to be an asshole regularly. This was another example. I can't say I hope the real Andrew Meyer sues Victoria and Dan, but I'm sorry to say I would not be surprised if he did -- and won.
98
Making fun of someone's physique is never acceptable. And for #32 who thinks it's acceptable "in the name of health," you cannot tell a person's health by looking at their size. There are healthy heavy people and unhealthy skinny people. So how about STFU, mind your own body, and let other people mind theirs.
The problem here was the fact that there is more than one Andrew Meyer. The Andrew Meyer who actually did this deserves all of the ridicule and calling out that he gets. He is an immature, nadless wank job.
The problem here was the fact that there is more than one Andrew Meyer. The Andrew Meyer who actually did this deserves all of the ridicule and calling out that he gets. He is an immature, nadless wank job.
99
How about a link, Keekee, or at least instructions on where to look for it? I'm not finding it, and I'm trying hard!
101
Anyone who thinks social sanctions against assholes is the same thing as bullying gays for being gay is part of the problem. Your issues go far deeper than using poor analogies.
102
If you want to talk about contributing to blaming the wrong guy, sure that's bad. BUT the act of publicly attempting to shame someone for no-tip + calling the waitress fat is not the same thing at all. Someone didn't "choose" to be gay, but this guy (whoever the fuck he is) chose to be a regressive asshole.
103
I still think you were a bully with your original repost. You have no first hand knowledge of the situation Dan. You made an ass of yourself with that post and this apology is half hearted at best. For all you know she treated her customer badly and while his comment was uncalled for the $0 tip may very well have been deserved. If her online behavior over this is any clue to her behavior at work... I think she might have been the one to start this.
104
@103: "For all you know she treated her customer badly"
Oh fuck off. We "don't know" that she could have spat on his nonexistent children and rubbed a used condom in his mother's face, but he would have CALLED OUT the poor service on the check, not made the fratboy fat joke.
Oh fuck off. We "don't know" that she could have spat on his nonexistent children and rubbed a used condom in his mother's face, but he would have CALLED OUT the poor service on the check, not made the fratboy fat joke.
105
There are so many angry people! Cmon guys, it's the blog for our local paper. Chill the fuck out.
Oh wait, I forgot. People from all over the country read this, so let me rephrase that: it's the blog for OUR local paper, so get a goddamn life. Dan is not a "spokesperson" for every queer baby that ever crawled out of a womb. He's a guy, on a blog, writing stories about Seattle. Sure, he does other shit too, but those things? not relevant to this little slog story. I think I'm going to stop reading the comments in Dan's posts, because there are way too many people who don't come here for local news, but to bitch that Dan isn't being enough of a paradigm of virtue. Boring.
Oh wait, I forgot. People from all over the country read this, so let me rephrase that: it's the blog for OUR local paper, so get a goddamn life. Dan is not a "spokesperson" for every queer baby that ever crawled out of a womb. He's a guy, on a blog, writing stories about Seattle. Sure, he does other shit too, but those things? not relevant to this little slog story. I think I'm going to stop reading the comments in Dan's posts, because there are way too many people who don't come here for local news, but to bitch that Dan isn't being enough of a paradigm of virtue. Boring.
106
This is a repost from the PI thread, culled from Ms. Liss' Facebook page:
On her facebook posts.....
Victoria Liss
Apparently that tubby queen with the woman voice from Chelsea Lately was at Rebar last night....
Share • May 29 at 7:25pm •
Victoria Liss
I think I'm turning Asian. My breath smells like kimchi and Red Mango fro yo! I knew this much liquid eyeliner would do it!
Share • May 12 at 3:33pm •
Victoria Liss
Dear customers: when you hear me yelling "EXCUSE ME" it means get out of my way. Not flip my tray or cry like a little b***h when your coat gets a spill on it.
Share • March 12 at 10:04pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
Put your shirt on, your body disgusts me.
Share • June 26 at 3:33pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
he's a cheap a** indian guy. they all order jack and cokes and don't tip. what ev. If he can't chill will Bettines, I know I'm hatin the right man. f**k that s**t.
July 3, 2010 at 5:05am
Victoria Liss
Ah s**t no camera phone and a guy that looked like a total igor got on the bus!
Share • January 28 at 10:46pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
I hate white people!
Share • November 25, 2010 at 11:54pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
This little kracker in Jerry Maguire basically is live action Ralph Wiggum.
Share • October 5 at 1:44pm via mobile •
On her facebook posts.....
Victoria Liss
Apparently that tubby queen with the woman voice from Chelsea Lately was at Rebar last night....
Share • May 29 at 7:25pm •
Victoria Liss
I think I'm turning Asian. My breath smells like kimchi and Red Mango fro yo! I knew this much liquid eyeliner would do it!
Share • May 12 at 3:33pm •
Victoria Liss
Dear customers: when you hear me yelling "EXCUSE ME" it means get out of my way. Not flip my tray or cry like a little b***h when your coat gets a spill on it.
Share • March 12 at 10:04pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
Put your shirt on, your body disgusts me.
Share • June 26 at 3:33pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
he's a cheap a** indian guy. they all order jack and cokes and don't tip. what ev. If he can't chill will Bettines, I know I'm hatin the right man. f**k that s**t.
July 3, 2010 at 5:05am
Victoria Liss
Ah s**t no camera phone and a guy that looked like a total igor got on the bus!
Share • January 28 at 10:46pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
I hate white people!
Share • November 25, 2010 at 11:54pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
This little kracker in Jerry Maguire basically is live action Ralph Wiggum.
Share • October 5 at 1:44pm via mobile •
107
This is a repost from the PI thread, culled from Ms. Liss' Facebook page:
On her facebook posts.....
Victoria Liss
Apparently that tubby queen with the woman voice from Chelsea Lately was at Rebar last night....
Share • May 29 at 7:25pm •
Victoria Liss
I think I'm turning Asian. My breath smells like kimchi and Red Mango fro yo! I knew this much liquid eyeliner would do it!
Share • May 12 at 3:33pm •
Victoria Liss
Dear customers: when you hear me yelling "EXCUSE ME" it means get out of my way. Not flip my tray or cry like a little b***h when your coat gets a spill on it.
Share • March 12 at 10:04pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
Put your shirt on, your body disgusts me.
Share • June 26 at 3:33pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
he's a cheap a** indian guy. they all order jack and cokes and don't tip. what ev. If he can't chill will Bettines, I know I'm hatin the right man. f**k that s**t.
July 3, 2010 at 5:05am
Victoria Liss
Ah s**t no camera phone and a guy that looked like a total igor got on the bus!
Share • January 28 at 10:46pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
I hate white people!
Share • November 25, 2010 at 11:54pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
This little kracker in Jerry Maguire basically is live action Ralph Wiggum.
Share • October 5 at 1:44pm via mobile •
On her facebook posts.....
Victoria Liss
Apparently that tubby queen with the woman voice from Chelsea Lately was at Rebar last night....
Share • May 29 at 7:25pm •
Victoria Liss
I think I'm turning Asian. My breath smells like kimchi and Red Mango fro yo! I knew this much liquid eyeliner would do it!
Share • May 12 at 3:33pm •
Victoria Liss
Dear customers: when you hear me yelling "EXCUSE ME" it means get out of my way. Not flip my tray or cry like a little b***h when your coat gets a spill on it.
Share • March 12 at 10:04pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
Put your shirt on, your body disgusts me.
Share • June 26 at 3:33pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
he's a cheap a** indian guy. they all order jack and cokes and don't tip. what ev. If he can't chill will Bettines, I know I'm hatin the right man. f**k that s**t.
July 3, 2010 at 5:05am
Victoria Liss
Ah s**t no camera phone and a guy that looked like a total igor got on the bus!
Share • January 28 at 10:46pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
I hate white people!
Share • November 25, 2010 at 11:54pm via mobile •
Victoria Liss
This little kracker in Jerry Maguire basically is live action Ralph Wiggum.
Share • October 5 at 1:44pm via mobile •
108
@106: "This is a repost from the PI thread, culled from Ms. Liss' Facebook page:
On her facebook posts....."
You know, in a thread devoted to tearing apart someone for misrepresenting someone else, it's probably not a good idea to post some troll's idea of a joke as serious. You do realize that none of those entries existed when her FB was publicly viewable, or are you that credulous?
On her facebook posts....."
You know, in a thread devoted to tearing apart someone for misrepresenting someone else, it's probably not a good idea to post some troll's idea of a joke as serious. You do realize that none of those entries existed when her FB was publicly viewable, or are you that credulous?
109
They did exist because I had to look up Ralph Wiggum to understand her comment when I was reading it with my own eyes the first time. Why does Seattle defend their trash?
110
The Weekly apologized days ago - unequivocally, unlike Savage who tried to worm out of his words - and while you're trying to lean how to write Dan, learn how to spell (It's hee hee, not he he).
111
JPierce, methinks your "lean" instead of "learn" bespeaks of the need to utilize the very medicine you so lavishly prescribe to our dear Mr Savage.
112
Just to comment: I live in Detroit and wouldn't have heard anything about this if not for Savage's original post. (I subscribe to his Slog RSS feed.)
113
104: The problem is you don't know anything. You weren't there. You're choosing to accept her story. Good for you, but stop acting like you're an objective judge in this. You have no clue about what happened. Stop pretending you do.
114
101: I dislike anyone who tried to regulate private interactions between strangers. It's not your business. At most, it's her and her friends/coworkers' business. You don't have a right to butt you fat fucking head into their business, you really don't.
115
My sincere apology to the wronged Andrew(s), you didn't deserve this and I hope that your spirit(s) are up, and you'll someday have a good long laugh at our collective arsehole behavior. We collectively sucked. I am sorry for your suffering and wish you all the best.
Kind regards,
kim in portland
Kind regards,
kim in portland
116
And this is why you write a shitty blog rather than have a real job that pays for your worthless life Only a pathetic blogger would jump to such ridiculous concluson.
I hate supporting you with welfare. Please kill yourself and make your parents proud for hte first time sincehtey were aghast that they were pregnant with an unwanted baby.
I hate supporting you with welfare. Please kill yourself and make your parents proud for hte first time sincehtey were aghast that they were pregnant with an unwanted baby.
117
I had no opinion of this story at all until now. I don't even know why Dan and others chose to make this our business. And I think his credit card receipt should be private. The credit card company should pull their card reader for breaching the privacy of someones credit card transactions. And Victoria should be escorted to the door as fast as her Fat legs can carry her.
I just viewed Victoria Liss FB page her interests among others are "white Slavery"
She attacks someone by the name of John Corbett for being a vegetarian and working for Applebees..
Those defending this FATA$$ bigmouth are idiots. She is a vulgar turd who most likely didn't deserve a tip. Her being FAT is her own fault. SHE LIST CINNABON AS 'BADASS'. Think maybe that has something to do with her being Fat and atrocious?
and 107 is a far more reliable and fair source than someone who poses as a Zombie Ayn Rand but is a loudmouth arrogant zombie him/herself. Has this despicable insult to Ayn Rand any proof those comments were not posted to Victorias FB page? Of course not she just expects us to believe her because she can swear and insult .
I just viewed Victoria Liss FB page her interests among others are "white Slavery"
She attacks someone by the name of John Corbett for being a vegetarian and working for Applebees..
Those defending this FATA$$ bigmouth are idiots. She is a vulgar turd who most likely didn't deserve a tip. Her being FAT is her own fault. SHE LIST CINNABON AS 'BADASS'. Think maybe that has something to do with her being Fat and atrocious?
and 107 is a far more reliable and fair source than someone who poses as a Zombie Ayn Rand but is a loudmouth arrogant zombie him/herself. Has this despicable insult to Ayn Rand any proof those comments were not posted to Victorias FB page? Of course not she just expects us to believe her because she can swear and insult .
119
That Victoria was foolish enough to go to a network as wholly inadequate as is Facebook for what should have been a simple fact-finding mission done elsewhere, was her only mistake.
Any fool can go to the website at http://www.soundpolitics.com/voterlookup…, plug in Andrew Meyer, and strongly deduce that the Andrew Meyer who lives, oh, say, less than half-a-mile from Bimbo's is the correct target.
The waitress in this case was 100% in the right and her employer has but two options with regard to the incident:
(a) They can STFU and stand behind her silently
or
(b) They can dare to discipline her and then endure the wrath of her reaction which will be a lawsuit based on the public knowledge that Bimbo's has fostered a workplace environment in which harrassment is common. (she has photographic proof of same, and we've all now seen it)
As for the rest of us, we should use resources far more credible than mere Facebook and send Andrew Meyer up the river where he belongs. Obviously he had every right to leave a $0.00 tip, but the waitress had every right to do as she pleased with a 'personal' message written to her, and on stationery of HIS choosing.
Of course this is not about the tip... and soon the wrath of western society will come down hard upon the correct Andrew Meyer, as it should.
All we can do is sit back, laugh and taunt as justice is served hot and steamy to Andrew Meyer.
Any fool can go to the website at http://www.soundpolitics.com/voterlookup…, plug in Andrew Meyer, and strongly deduce that the Andrew Meyer who lives, oh, say, less than half-a-mile from Bimbo's is the correct target.
The waitress in this case was 100% in the right and her employer has but two options with regard to the incident:
(a) They can STFU and stand behind her silently
or
(b) They can dare to discipline her and then endure the wrath of her reaction which will be a lawsuit based on the public knowledge that Bimbo's has fostered a workplace environment in which harrassment is common. (she has photographic proof of same, and we've all now seen it)
As for the rest of us, we should use resources far more credible than mere Facebook and send Andrew Meyer up the river where he belongs. Obviously he had every right to leave a $0.00 tip, but the waitress had every right to do as she pleased with a 'personal' message written to her, and on stationery of HIS choosing.
Of course this is not about the tip... and soon the wrath of western society will come down hard upon the correct Andrew Meyer, as it should.
All we can do is sit back, laugh and taunt as justice is served hot and steamy to Andrew Meyer.
120
#119, you may want to reserve judgement until you actually hear or read Andrews version of the story, so far Vic hasn't gotten a lot correct. Add that you can now go on Yelp and read about an individual's experience at Bimbo's that shockingly mirrors (i'm not going to vouch for the authenticity) the incidents Vic mentioned in her interview and you and everyone else who jumped on Andrew look like pretty horrible individuals. Why not take a gander on Yelp at the review and what it says? Does an customer, battling anorexia, being told they can use a few extra pounds sound like an event that could reasonably expect the fat comment on the bill?
Just an idea, but perhaps Vic really isn't someone that you should be protecting and Andrew shouldn't be getting ANY criticism.
Just an idea, but perhaps Vic really isn't someone that you should be protecting and Andrew shouldn't be getting ANY criticism.
121
#119, you may want to reserve judgement until you actually hear or read Andrews version of the story, so far Vic hasn't gotten a lot correct. Add that you can now go on Yelp and read about an individual's experience at Bimbo's that shockingly mirrors (i'm not going to vouch for the authenticity) the incidents Vic mentioned in her interview and you and everyone else who jumped on Andrew look like pretty horrible individuals. Why not take a gander on Yelp at the review and what it says? Does an customer, battling anorexia, being told they can use a few extra pounds sound like an event that could reasonably expect the fat comment on the bill?
Just an idea, but perhaps Vic really isn't someone that you should be protecting and Andrew shouldn't be getting ANY criticism.
Just an idea, but perhaps Vic really isn't someone that you should be protecting and Andrew shouldn't be getting ANY criticism.
122
ok i'm feeling like a total ignorant idiot but voter registration with full names, home addresses and BIRTHDAYS are completely public and ONLINE?
BIRTHDAYS? you gotta be kidding me!
why the fuck do i bother hiding my birthdate on Facebook then? Or expect it to be private info on a huge assortment of many other accounts, online or otherwise?
and since when did i get this naive. crap.
BIRTHDAYS? you gotta be kidding me!
why the fuck do i bother hiding my birthdate on Facebook then? Or expect it to be private info on a huge assortment of many other accounts, online or otherwise?
and since when did i get this naive. crap.
124
See now, THIS is what the internet can get us these days:
per Secretary of State Sam Reed's PUBLIC voter registration database...
Sam S. Reed, 3201 Sherwood Dr. SE, Olympia, WA Birth date 1941-AUG-10
Sam S. Reed's wife, Margery A., at same address, birth date 1941-AUG-10
Sam S. Reed's son, David S, at same address, birth date 1966-JUL-23
...and David, tsk tsk, the last time you voted was in 2008. shame!
oh, and whether or not I should be posting this on a random, public site? Per Sound Politics' defense, HEY IT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION, SO IT'S OK!
Can someone explain to me why every voter's birthday needs to be public?
oh and another silly thing...the database does the nice little thing of hiding the last digit of the address number with an "e" for even and an "o" for odd! so nice of them to be concerned for our privacy! (I was able to guess Sam Reed's house number in about 10 seconds)
per Secretary of State Sam Reed's PUBLIC voter registration database...
Sam S. Reed, 3201 Sherwood Dr. SE, Olympia, WA Birth date 1941-AUG-10
Sam S. Reed's wife, Margery A., at same address, birth date 1941-AUG-10
Sam S. Reed's son, David S, at same address, birth date 1966-JUL-23
...and David, tsk tsk, the last time you voted was in 2008. shame!
oh, and whether or not I should be posting this on a random, public site? Per Sound Politics' defense, HEY IT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION, SO IT'S OK!
Can someone explain to me why every voter's birthday needs to be public?
oh and another silly thing...the database does the nice little thing of hiding the last digit of the address number with an "e" for even and an "o" for odd! so nice of them to be concerned for our privacy! (I was able to guess Sam Reed's house number in about 10 seconds)
126
@119 that's ridiculous. For one, Andrew Meyer is a common name. Who are you to "deduce" that a given AM is the right one based on any given Internet search? For two, a review has been posted on Yelp by a "Drew" that describes what I assume to be the incident in question. It's quite a different version than Victoria Liss tells. Based on my own past experience at Bimbo's, I'd be more inclined to believe the Yelp reviewer. For three, persons are posting to Slog comments reportedly from Victoria Liss' Facebook page. If these are indeed her comments, she is posting some pretty vile, bigoted, prejudiced comments about random strangers for all the world to see. For four, according to a commenter on Slog, his GIRLFRIEND was the one who left the comment on the receipt, unbeknownst to AM. So you see? All kinds of things can be deduced from the Internet. And "wrath of her reaction"? PUHLEEZE. By her own account she's been home hiding under the sheets for two days, hoping this all blows over. Too bad it's tied to her name on the Internetz FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER. The "wrath of western society" is actually coming down on Ms. Liss, and pretty fucking hard.
127
what about your apology to the COMPANY THAT SUPPORTS 30,000+ PEOPLE IN THE SEATTLE AREA, since you cast aspersions on that company for no reason, because you jumped to conclusions with no research about the subject. Repeating nasty, harmful stereotypes does not make you a journalist. Or make you funny, for that matter.
128
Dan I used to respect you, but you've lost it over this. You're too smart and you've used your online voice as a bully pulpit too many times, to play "dumb" over this. If you want to use social media/slog as a bully pulpit, fine, but makes you have the right person and that it's for a good reason. And for godshakes man, when you fuck up admit it, and don't play dumb and joke it off. You bullied the wrong guy, you fucked up. You knew what would happen when you posted an editorial article about how much of a douche he is and then linked to a page that listed his full name/fb profile link. COME ON MAN, APOLOGIZE! Seattle weekly has. Yeah you don't really have to, your face won't be posted everywhere on the net next to a blogger bullied wrong man story, if you don't apologize. But people like me, who respect you and back your bully pulpit aren't looking at you the same anymore. DO THE RIGHT THING DAN. LEAD BY EXAMPLE. BE A BIG PERSON AND ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG.
129
Fox News mentioned the fiasco this morning.
Picture of the FAT bitch and
a shot of the receipt with the lose weight comment.
she will come to regret being such a cunt.......
Picture of the FAT bitch and
a shot of the receipt with the lose weight comment.
she will come to regret being such a cunt.......
130
Dan criticizing Palin's completely inappropriate choice of words: http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…
Dan's use of 'Pogrom' is also completely inappropriate. This is what happens when you try to parse an apology. Sometimes the cover up is worse than the crime; apparently, sometimes an apology is worse than the original post.
Dan's use of 'Pogrom' is also completely inappropriate. This is what happens when you try to parse an apology. Sometimes the cover up is worse than the crime; apparently, sometimes an apology is worse than the original post.
131
POLITICS She Who Must Not Be Discussed (According to Paul)...
posted by DAN SAVAGE on TUE, JAN 18, 2011 at 8:51 AM
...opened her idiot mouth last night. “Blood libel obviously means being falsely accused of having blood on your hands,” Palin whined to Sean Hannity. Um... not quite, Sarah:
Actually, it's much more than that. It's a historic and defamatory slur on an entire group of people, meant to demean, and even more, dehumanize them. It's not simply being falsely accused of having blood on your hands, otherwise anyone falsely accused of a crime could claim "blood libel," and that's not what it means by any stretch.
But I suppose if you're not that bright, mock education, have never properly mastered the English language, and use phrases that your speechwriter gives you without really knowing what they mean, or having any notion of the history behind them (does anyone seriously believe that Palin knew the history of the phrase—please), then yes, you might be confused about the meaning and usage of "blood libel."
posted by DAN SAVAGE on TUE, JAN 18, 2011 at 8:51 AM
...opened her idiot mouth last night. “Blood libel obviously means being falsely accused of having blood on your hands,” Palin whined to Sean Hannity. Um... not quite, Sarah:
Actually, it's much more than that. It's a historic and defamatory slur on an entire group of people, meant to demean, and even more, dehumanize them. It's not simply being falsely accused of having blood on your hands, otherwise anyone falsely accused of a crime could claim "blood libel," and that's not what it means by any stretch.
But I suppose if you're not that bright, mock education, have never properly mastered the English language, and use phrases that your speechwriter gives you without really knowing what they mean, or having any notion of the history behind them (does anyone seriously believe that Palin knew the history of the phrase—please), then yes, you might be confused about the meaning and usage of "blood libel."
132
I don't really want to keep this alive, but someone on the other thread pointed out that a "Drew" reviewed Bimbo's on Yelp, and it sounds like it's the same guy.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/bimbos-cantina-s…
His side of the story makes Victoria look a lot worse. Apparently she told the girlfriend that she could stand to put on some weight.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/bimbos-cantina-s…
His side of the story makes Victoria look a lot worse. Apparently she told the girlfriend that she could stand to put on some weight.
133
Sooo, after reading the yelp review, I imagine this is what happened: Andrew and his gf walk in, get shitty service from an asshole waitress, fire back a bit of their own assholeness (understandable) and the girlfriend writes a note on the receipt (which Andrew may or may not have known about). Victoria reads the note, gets all fucking ridiculous about it and acts as if someone just killed her fucking grandmother or something. Normal people shrug this shit off. She is more of an asshole than anyone in this whole scenario.
134
Oh and Dan, you could at least admit you were wrong to not even consider the fact that there are two sides to any story. Christ. This makes you look horrible, and has really tainted my opinion of your ability to report on anything.
135
Wow. I just read the Yelp review. If it's at all accurate it explains a lot about the incident. The GF even used the same wording back to Victoria that was used on her, just reversed it. Victoria allegedly said to her "you could stand to gain a few pounds", so the GF just turned that around.
This is 100% different from how it was presented. It wasn't some random jerk commenting on the weight of a server, it was the customer's girlfriend responding, after her own weight had been commented on BY the server, after requesting no beans on her taco, which she then received anyway, after waiting over a half-hour to even order.
& the FB comments posted above are from Victoria's account.
Ms. Liss may have the "biggest tits on the Hill", & be a popular bartender with pre-existing customers, but this whole brouhaha shouldn't have happened. Who cares if Jezebel ran it first, this was the wrong thing to highlight.
This is 100% different from how it was presented. It wasn't some random jerk commenting on the weight of a server, it was the customer's girlfriend responding, after her own weight had been commented on BY the server, after requesting no beans on her taco, which she then received anyway, after waiting over a half-hour to even order.
& the FB comments posted above are from Victoria's account.
Ms. Liss may have the "biggest tits on the Hill", & be a popular bartender with pre-existing customers, but this whole brouhaha shouldn't have happened. Who cares if Jezebel ran it first, this was the wrong thing to highlight.
136
Thanks for that, Eva. I now feel better about jumping to the conclusion I jumped to before I had the whole story.
137
oof. Yelp now shows several bad reviews due to this incident. i wonder if they are pissed at Liss?
138
@132: "His side of the story makes Victoria look a lot worse. Apparently she told the girlfriend that she could stand to put on some weight."
If he made the review before this kerfuffle hit the mainstream, I'd be a lot more inclined to believe his side of the story.
If he made the review before this kerfuffle hit the mainstream, I'd be a lot more inclined to believe his side of the story.
139
@138
Is there a more credible reason to doubt "Drew" than Victoria?
The Cha was my neighborhood bar in the 90's and I used to love it! More and more I experience the same thing Drew is describing: slow service, dirty looks, deep sighs, screwed up orders, most likely because I don't flaunt hipster royalty. (And yes, I tip 20% almost no matter what...)
The point is, media jumped behind the online vendetta based on a facebook post by one person, representing one side of one small issue when it is not outside the realm of possibility that she really did delivered very bad, very rude service in the first place.
Is there a more credible reason to doubt "Drew" than Victoria?
The Cha was my neighborhood bar in the 90's and I used to love it! More and more I experience the same thing Drew is describing: slow service, dirty looks, deep sighs, screwed up orders, most likely because I don't flaunt hipster royalty. (And yes, I tip 20% almost no matter what...)
The point is, media jumped behind the online vendetta based on a facebook post by one person, representing one side of one small issue when it is not outside the realm of possibility that she really did delivered very bad, very rude service in the first place.
140
Dan your true colours came out with this. You, Dan Savage, became the person you claim to fight against. You became a bigoted bully. You used your position as a leading columnist, to pick a fight with an innocent Andrew Meyer. What would you have done if Rick Santorum did this to poor Andrew Meyer. What's worse is that you are a coward. But then again that's what bullies are. A coward who doesn't have the balls to offer an adequate apology. Go suck eggs, bigot.
141
@132 His side of the story doesn't really matter AT ALL.
A quick review of this Fat slob Victorias fb profile and you can clearly see she has a habit of making an ass out of herself. Someone who looks like her has no business attacking other peoples eating habits either.
Only a Zombie would defend that Vulgar turd Liss. Hey what do you know, we have a candidate zombie here doing just that.
A quick review of this Fat slob Victorias fb profile and you can clearly see she has a habit of making an ass out of herself. Someone who looks like her has no business attacking other peoples eating habits either.
Only a Zombie would defend that Vulgar turd Liss. Hey what do you know, we have a candidate zombie here doing just that.
142
Here's the issue with justifying SOME bullying because the object "deserves it", is a "douchebag", was unjustifiably an "asshole" or whatever justification might be used in this particular case: it weakens the case against any other bullying. Bullying is wrong in ALL cases. Otherwise, those same arguments can be used by the assholes who bully LGBT folks, or women (of any orientation) or people of color or overweight people or nerdish people. For them, their objects "deserve it", too.
I try to teach my kids about hypocrisy and as much as I enjoy reading Dan's column/blog and applaud his advocacy, approving SOME bullying really harms his credibility in advocating against the bullying with which he disagrees.
It was a hugely dickish move for this guy - or his girlfriend or anyone else - to write the comment on the bill. But bullying an asshole is just bullying - and that anonymous bullying that so many have engaged in is a big sign of cowardice.
I try to teach my kids about hypocrisy and as much as I enjoy reading Dan's column/blog and applaud his advocacy, approving SOME bullying really harms his credibility in advocating against the bullying with which he disagrees.
It was a hugely dickish move for this guy - or his girlfriend or anyone else - to write the comment on the bill. But bullying an asshole is just bullying - and that anonymous bullying that so many have engaged in is a big sign of cowardice.
145
If a lazy slob insults me and says i could stand to gain a few pounds and i tell her she could stand to lose a few pounds, that isn't bullying. It is retaliation. Maybe it's wrong maybe it isn't.
Some people think it's better for people in the LGBTQ community to just sit back and take whatever insults and attacks bullies throw around and some choose to fight back. Fighting back doesn't make you a bully. If we let Bullies have their way and choose not to fight back there would be no civil rights movement at all.
Defending oneself isn't bullying. The FB page of this atrociously vulgar slob, Victoria, is a running attack on many people for their looks or ethnicity.
Victoria Liss is the Bully, not just in this instance but in others too.
Some people think it's better for people in the LGBTQ community to just sit back and take whatever insults and attacks bullies throw around and some choose to fight back. Fighting back doesn't make you a bully. If we let Bullies have their way and choose not to fight back there would be no civil rights movement at all.
Defending oneself isn't bullying. The FB page of this atrociously vulgar slob, Victoria, is a running attack on many people for their looks or ethnicity.
Victoria Liss is the Bully, not just in this instance but in others too.
147
@146,
What if she did?
Dan clearly isn't sorry. I'm guessing his (and the Stranger's) lawyers told him to say he was.
What if she did?
Dan clearly isn't sorry. I'm guessing his (and the Stranger's) lawyers told him to say he was.
148
@MyChalkLine, I agree. I left this comment on the original (now deleted) story, and I don't think it was up for long before the entire post with all comments got removed, so this seems as good a place to repost it as any:
I've been following this story since the Jezebel post. At first I was shocked at the rudeness of the customer in question (and I'm still not comfortable with the weight comment, although if the Yelp review is him and not a hoax, and if the Yelp review is the truth, I can see where the comment came from and it sounds less like a body-snark and more like a "How do you like it when people comment on your weight?").
But then I started to get uneasy about the level of vitriol being aimed at him; yes, he was a jerk, but he was just a jerk, you know? He didn't physically attack her, he didn't bring in a dead cat and ask her to cook it for him, he didn't molest a couple of kids. He just acted like a jerk. Did that really deserve so much press?
I never honestly believed what she said about him stealing her tips. First, she only had $1.25 in quarters in there? How did she know the exact amount--I used to tend bar and rarely knew exactly how much was in my jar. Second, her manager really stood there and watched it happen and did nothing? Didn't detain the guy, didn't make him give it back, nothing? The manager is happy to have her spread the customer's info all over Facebook, but actually physically backing her up while the guy stole her tips was going too far? Don't they have a doorman who could have stopped him? Why were the police not called? (I know it's a small dollar amount, but when someone is that big a jerk you call the cops if for no other reason than to throw some fear into them.)
Then I saw her Facebook page and my unease turned into something stronger. And it kept turning while I read her self-congratulatory interview, you know, the one where she said "Hey, this guy was rude to a bartender...if you're a jerk you better delete your Facebook page and change your name," as if being forced to change your name to avoid harassment by mobs of scary strangers online is a just and right punishment for stiffing a bartender on a $30 tab and telling her she could stand to lose a few pounds. It kept turning when I saw her friends use the word "retard" as an insult, because apparently it's okay to be cruel about disabled people (as long as you're not calling them fat, at least).
It kept turning when those friends who, again, called the customer a "fucking retard" for making the "lose/loose" error could not themselves properly differentiate between "your" and "you're," and when Victoria made several spelling/grammar/punctuation errors of her own. It turned harder when she cackled and rubbed her hands together as she viciously ripped apart every aspect of the wrong man's looks, then linked to his wife's Facebook page and did the same to her. And it got even worse as she and her friends practically blew themselves because they were so gleeful and proud of the way they were raking a stranger over the coals and encouraging thousands of people to send nasty messages and threats to that person, like what they were doing was striking a blow for civil rights instead of taking junior high to a national level and conceivably ruining a person's life because he said something not very nice about her weight.
The more I looked at her Facebook page, in fact, the more I realized that while it doesn't justify the weight comments (again, though, if she honestly said "You could stand to gain a few pounds" to another woman, customer or not, recovering anorexic or not, I can't entirely blame him for responding in kind; he should have taken the high road, yes, but again I see it as a "Is it any more appropriate when I make comments about your weight than it was for you to make them?" thing)... She is quite simply a vile human being. A comment about her weight is wrong but it's awesome for her to take pictures of random strangers and post them on her Facebook page with insults about their looks. It's totally hilarious to use "fag" as an insult, and comparing straight men to gay men in order to insult the straight man is also okay! Racism is cool, too, as is sexism. All the best people insult those who are not exactly like them, especially when who they are is a cookie-cutter hipster whose "original, creative, and witty" behavior and outlook and jokes look and read exactly like those of any of the thousands of other "original, creative, and witty" hipsters out there; the utter mundanity of that Facebook page is incredible. Apparently the only original or creative thoughts Ms. Liss has are...well, no, there's no indication of originality or creativity anywhere on that page. Even her memories sound like someone else said them better first.
So in the end it just feels like...well, yeah, what he did was wrong, but it's hard to believe he wasn't provoked, because he at least left his rude comment after personally interacting with her. She on the other hand feels totally justified in saying far worse things about innocent people she encounters throughout the day who did absolutely nothing to deserve her cruelty, and by taking this public and congratulating herself in calling out a lynch mob--and you may think I'm being overdramatic here, but can anyone honestly say it's beyond the realm of possibility that some looking-for-a-reason-to-snap gun aficionado could have seen this and decided that shooting the customer would be a great statement against the cruel yuppie world? Is it beyond the realm of possibility that the customer (or simply a poor lookalike) could have been walking down the street and been spotted and set upon by rock-throwing drunks, and sustained some serious injuries? That he could have had his possessions stolen and/or vandalized, that he could have been attacked, that his wife whose Facebook page was also linked to, insulted, and made fun of could have been attacked?--she proved that she is seriously lacking in both maturity and humanity, so self-absorbed that she sees this as a chance to prove how "powerful" she is without even a thought to the potential consequences of her actions. (One of her Facebook friends actually commented, "Doesn't he know who you ARE?" as if anyone should care.)
The fact that she ending up IDing the wrong man--and made a lazy, facile "Oopsie! My bad, tee-hee, don't forget to tip 20%!" apology, FFS--underscores her irresponsibility and carelessness. A totally innocent man could have been--and has been--hurt by her childish vendetta. And funnily enough it's probably a blessing at least to some degree; at least the Wrong Man doesn't live in Seattle.
This sort of torch mob is never a good thing. Everyone who encouraged this one should be deeply ashamed of themselves. Again, even if she had provided excellent service, all that happened was the guy stiffed her and made a rude comment about her weight. Is that really a good reason to figuratively put him naked in the stocks while thousands of people throw fruit? Really? Now anyone who has a bad day or says something in the heat of the moment that they may regret deserves to be forced to delete their Facebook pages or change their names, as if they molested children or murdered someone or something? Let's save the name-and-shame campaigns for people who actually did something worthy of it.
Victoria Liss should especially be ashamed of herself, though I doubt she actually is. Her lip-service apologies sound to me like exactly that; it doesn't seem to me as if she's capable of understanding what "shame" is. Or any other actual human emotion.
More...
I've been following this story since the Jezebel post. At first I was shocked at the rudeness of the customer in question (and I'm still not comfortable with the weight comment, although if the Yelp review is him and not a hoax, and if the Yelp review is the truth, I can see where the comment came from and it sounds less like a body-snark and more like a "How do you like it when people comment on your weight?").
But then I started to get uneasy about the level of vitriol being aimed at him; yes, he was a jerk, but he was just a jerk, you know? He didn't physically attack her, he didn't bring in a dead cat and ask her to cook it for him, he didn't molest a couple of kids. He just acted like a jerk. Did that really deserve so much press?
I never honestly believed what she said about him stealing her tips. First, she only had $1.25 in quarters in there? How did she know the exact amount--I used to tend bar and rarely knew exactly how much was in my jar. Second, her manager really stood there and watched it happen and did nothing? Didn't detain the guy, didn't make him give it back, nothing? The manager is happy to have her spread the customer's info all over Facebook, but actually physically backing her up while the guy stole her tips was going too far? Don't they have a doorman who could have stopped him? Why were the police not called? (I know it's a small dollar amount, but when someone is that big a jerk you call the cops if for no other reason than to throw some fear into them.)
Then I saw her Facebook page and my unease turned into something stronger. And it kept turning while I read her self-congratulatory interview, you know, the one where she said "Hey, this guy was rude to a bartender...if you're a jerk you better delete your Facebook page and change your name," as if being forced to change your name to avoid harassment by mobs of scary strangers online is a just and right punishment for stiffing a bartender on a $30 tab and telling her she could stand to lose a few pounds. It kept turning when I saw her friends use the word "retard" as an insult, because apparently it's okay to be cruel about disabled people (as long as you're not calling them fat, at least).
It kept turning when those friends who, again, called the customer a "fucking retard" for making the "lose/loose" error could not themselves properly differentiate between "your" and "you're," and when Victoria made several spelling/grammar/punctuation errors of her own. It turned harder when she cackled and rubbed her hands together as she viciously ripped apart every aspect of the wrong man's looks, then linked to his wife's Facebook page and did the same to her. And it got even worse as she and her friends practically blew themselves because they were so gleeful and proud of the way they were raking a stranger over the coals and encouraging thousands of people to send nasty messages and threats to that person, like what they were doing was striking a blow for civil rights instead of taking junior high to a national level and conceivably ruining a person's life because he said something not very nice about her weight.
The more I looked at her Facebook page, in fact, the more I realized that while it doesn't justify the weight comments (again, though, if she honestly said "You could stand to gain a few pounds" to another woman, customer or not, recovering anorexic or not, I can't entirely blame him for responding in kind; he should have taken the high road, yes, but again I see it as a "Is it any more appropriate when I make comments about your weight than it was for you to make them?" thing)... She is quite simply a vile human being. A comment about her weight is wrong but it's awesome for her to take pictures of random strangers and post them on her Facebook page with insults about their looks. It's totally hilarious to use "fag" as an insult, and comparing straight men to gay men in order to insult the straight man is also okay! Racism is cool, too, as is sexism. All the best people insult those who are not exactly like them, especially when who they are is a cookie-cutter hipster whose "original, creative, and witty" behavior and outlook and jokes look and read exactly like those of any of the thousands of other "original, creative, and witty" hipsters out there; the utter mundanity of that Facebook page is incredible. Apparently the only original or creative thoughts Ms. Liss has are...well, no, there's no indication of originality or creativity anywhere on that page. Even her memories sound like someone else said them better first.
So in the end it just feels like...well, yeah, what he did was wrong, but it's hard to believe he wasn't provoked, because he at least left his rude comment after personally interacting with her. She on the other hand feels totally justified in saying far worse things about innocent people she encounters throughout the day who did absolutely nothing to deserve her cruelty, and by taking this public and congratulating herself in calling out a lynch mob--and you may think I'm being overdramatic here, but can anyone honestly say it's beyond the realm of possibility that some looking-for-a-reason-to-snap gun aficionado could have seen this and decided that shooting the customer would be a great statement against the cruel yuppie world? Is it beyond the realm of possibility that the customer (or simply a poor lookalike) could have been walking down the street and been spotted and set upon by rock-throwing drunks, and sustained some serious injuries? That he could have had his possessions stolen and/or vandalized, that he could have been attacked, that his wife whose Facebook page was also linked to, insulted, and made fun of could have been attacked?--she proved that she is seriously lacking in both maturity and humanity, so self-absorbed that she sees this as a chance to prove how "powerful" she is without even a thought to the potential consequences of her actions. (One of her Facebook friends actually commented, "Doesn't he know who you ARE?" as if anyone should care.)
The fact that she ending up IDing the wrong man--and made a lazy, facile "Oopsie! My bad, tee-hee, don't forget to tip 20%!" apology, FFS--underscores her irresponsibility and carelessness. A totally innocent man could have been--and has been--hurt by her childish vendetta. And funnily enough it's probably a blessing at least to some degree; at least the Wrong Man doesn't live in Seattle.
This sort of torch mob is never a good thing. Everyone who encouraged this one should be deeply ashamed of themselves. Again, even if she had provided excellent service, all that happened was the guy stiffed her and made a rude comment about her weight. Is that really a good reason to figuratively put him naked in the stocks while thousands of people throw fruit? Really? Now anyone who has a bad day or says something in the heat of the moment that they may regret deserves to be forced to delete their Facebook pages or change their names, as if they molested children or murdered someone or something? Let's save the name-and-shame campaigns for people who actually did something worthy of it.
Victoria Liss should especially be ashamed of herself, though I doubt she actually is. Her lip-service apologies sound to me like exactly that; it doesn't seem to me as if she's capable of understanding what "shame" is. Or any other actual human emotion.
149
@139: "Is there a more credible reason to doubt "Drew" than Victoria?"
No, at this point I'm just sick of all parties involved. It's plausible.
@140: "Dan your true colours came out with this. You, Dan Savage, became the person you claim to fight against. You became a bigoted bully"
Do the false equivalencies never stop? Yes, posting incorrect information on a website is absolutely like bullying gay children to death. Dan Savage is exactly like violent, taunting homophobes.
You people are disgusting.
No, at this point I'm just sick of all parties involved. It's plausible.
@140: "Dan your true colours came out with this. You, Dan Savage, became the person you claim to fight against. You became a bigoted bully"
Do the false equivalencies never stop? Yes, posting incorrect information on a website is absolutely like bullying gay children to death. Dan Savage is exactly like violent, taunting homophobes.
You people are disgusting.
150
CHS, doing it the right way. Love the thoughtful letter from the wrong Andrew's wife!
http://capitolhillseattle.com/2011/10/14…
http://capitolhillseattle.com/2011/10/14…
151
@ 138, I read the whole review closely and carefully, and couldn't find a single clue that "Drew" is even aware of this shitstorm. Also, the tone is calm enough to be truthful (which is usually a big clue - people who are just pissed but know they were wrong are the ones who cover it up with anger.) Finally, there ARE other reviews that predate this incident that paint the picture of a staff that goes out of their way to treat certain clientele in a passive-aggressive manner. It supports Drew's story.
Does it mean that it should be taken as the gospel truth? No. But right now, based on the actions of all the participants in the story, I judge Drew as the most trustworthy one. Sure, they shouldn't have written that on the receipt; and obviously he didn't cop to leaving a zero tip on Yelp. He and his girlfriend aren't saints. But now I really doubt that they stole anything from the tip jar.
Does it mean that it should be taken as the gospel truth? No. But right now, based on the actions of all the participants in the story, I judge Drew as the most trustworthy one. Sure, they shouldn't have written that on the receipt; and obviously he didn't cop to leaving a zero tip on Yelp. He and his girlfriend aren't saints. But now I really doubt that they stole anything from the tip jar.
152
When Homophobe Republicans like say Rick Santorum start spewing their idiocy and hate for gays does Dan Savage shrivel up and back down? Or does he get right back into their face with say a campaign to retaliate?
Of course Dan would do exactly what the customers who felt slighted did. They retaliated by name calling. Is there a difference between calling someone fat and redefining their name as a vulgar sexual term?
I really love Dans aggressiveness and will to fight back, he is, and continues to be, an inspiration. He made a mistake, we all do. I stand by him though and continue to support his efforts to make positive change.
But i will not support Victoria Liss who, like Santorum, deserves a taste of her own medicine.
Any Zombie who finds that 'disgusting' can crawl back under the grave they dug themselves out of.
Of course Dan would do exactly what the customers who felt slighted did. They retaliated by name calling. Is there a difference between calling someone fat and redefining their name as a vulgar sexual term?
I really love Dans aggressiveness and will to fight back, he is, and continues to be, an inspiration. He made a mistake, we all do. I stand by him though and continue to support his efforts to make positive change.
But i will not support Victoria Liss who, like Santorum, deserves a taste of her own medicine.
Any Zombie who finds that 'disgusting' can crawl back under the grave they dug themselves out of.
153
@152: Look, I've changed my mind on the whole matter and am willing to see his perspective as plausible, but not all social sanctions are "bullying".
People were angry with the guy for (AS INITIALLY BELIEVED) being sizeist/misogynist. The fuck-up was that it was not the right guy, I don't see anything wrong with being angry with regressives.
People were angry with the guy for (AS INITIALLY BELIEVED) being sizeist/misogynist. The fuck-up was that it was not the right guy, I don't see anything wrong with being angry with regressives.
154
The mistake is not that it was the wrong man.
The mistake was assuming this woman was a victim. She clearly makes a habit of attacking people based on looks and ethnicity. She publicly attacks John Corbett because he is a vegetarian. It seems eating habits are not off the table.
And your 'disgusting' remark wasn't directed at Victoria or the customer. You shot your mouth off without the facts, as usual. You defended an aggressive woman, who regularly victimizes others for much less, simply because she is fat.
You have to have a mind to be able to change it. Arrogance does not replace intelligence.
The mistake was assuming this woman was a victim. She clearly makes a habit of attacking people based on looks and ethnicity. She publicly attacks John Corbett because he is a vegetarian. It seems eating habits are not off the table.
And your 'disgusting' remark wasn't directed at Victoria or the customer. You shot your mouth off without the facts, as usual. You defended an aggressive woman, who regularly victimizes others for much less, simply because she is fat.
You have to have a mind to be able to change it. Arrogance does not replace intelligence.
155
Isn't online (or on-receipt) personal attacks and name calling what we are supposed to be against, no matter what side you take?
If it keeps up here, it takes away from the real issue, which in my mind is not "who was right that night at the Cha Cha" but WTF are media personalities thinking by taking up a personal vendetta and giving it the same weight as a civil rights violation? Fanning the flames to the point of potential personal harm? Then not even giving a nod to the fact that they are complicit in turning something petty into something truly ugly?
I've been following this out of curiosity about the media's role in this. And, since we're on the blog post from Dan Savage, about how he'd handle admitting he let his emotions override any sense of professional journalism.
The media has so much power, I don't think its a "let's just drop this" situation. Unless the press feels responsibility for their actions, they may not exercise any. This is one of the only ways I'm aware of to make the press feel responsibility...
If it keeps up here, it takes away from the real issue, which in my mind is not "who was right that night at the Cha Cha" but WTF are media personalities thinking by taking up a personal vendetta and giving it the same weight as a civil rights violation? Fanning the flames to the point of potential personal harm? Then not even giving a nod to the fact that they are complicit in turning something petty into something truly ugly?
I've been following this out of curiosity about the media's role in this. And, since we're on the blog post from Dan Savage, about how he'd handle admitting he let his emotions override any sense of professional journalism.
The media has so much power, I don't think its a "let's just drop this" situation. Unless the press feels responsibility for their actions, they may not exercise any. This is one of the only ways I'm aware of to make the press feel responsibility...
156
People, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaake up.
With regard to the incident at Bimbo's on the night in question, the waitress/bartender remains 100% in the right, and Andrew (F??) Meyer remains 100% in the wrong.
If you and your buddy are sitting in a tent down at Westlake Mall, and he whispers to you "I'm going to kill _______(someone so big it would be wrong of me to use his title here, even as an example)_______" ... you just shrug it off. At such time as when YOU repeat those same words in writing, later, and eventually ON THE INTERNET(no matter the means by which those words got on the internet)... the really big, really important law enforcement agencies are going to come after YOU... and not after your friend who merely spoke out loud to you.
When you accuse your friend of having uttered the same words, you have no proof, so it is at best a "he said, he said" situation. When you are dumb enough to write those words down, then you deserve all that is going to come your way, as does Andrew (F?) Meyer.
Andrew Meyer remains the one and only appropriate societal target merely for his having been so stupid as to have had that message written on a document which probably didn't pass through too many sets of hands before it reached its target.
Nowthen, to #120/121... I went to Yelp, and read Andrew's so-called "version" of the story. I failed to locate the part about his girlfriend being "anorexic" (nor would it matter). That he posted such a review as a way of damage control long after the fact makes it meaningless. And nobody is "protecting" Vic... for all we know, she may have a grow-op somewhere, and by having brought this undue attention UPON HERSELF, she may be condemned for that or other (more likely) misdeeds.
To #122 - You said it, we didn't. Just like with Facebook, it was YOUR CHOICE to sign-up for having your data a part of a vast, PUBLIC database. That you did so falls on nobodies shoulders but your own (as was the case with Andrew Meyer... and thankfully, because we all know that society is 'society', he WILL get what is justifiably coming to him)
To #124 - Yes, the explanation is easy: "... because every OTHER voter's birthday is public information" (don't ignore the obvious)
To #135 - If Andrew Meyer's girlfriend, ("anorexic" or not), was the stupid person who wrote the note, and brought the wrath of the whole world down on Andrew Meyer, then HE DESERVES it... for first having been dumb enough to trust her in any way. That she betrayed that trust in a way that is going to do him considerable harm is poetic justice. Furthermore, when Andrew Meyer incurs enough of the public's wrath and revenge it might, hopefully, reach a point where it harms such a would-be-stupid girlfriend at the same time.
More...
With regard to the incident at Bimbo's on the night in question, the waitress/bartender remains 100% in the right, and Andrew (F??) Meyer remains 100% in the wrong.
If you and your buddy are sitting in a tent down at Westlake Mall, and he whispers to you "I'm going to kill _______(someone so big it would be wrong of me to use his title here, even as an example)_______" ... you just shrug it off. At such time as when YOU repeat those same words in writing, later, and eventually ON THE INTERNET(no matter the means by which those words got on the internet)... the really big, really important law enforcement agencies are going to come after YOU... and not after your friend who merely spoke out loud to you.
When you accuse your friend of having uttered the same words, you have no proof, so it is at best a "he said, he said" situation. When you are dumb enough to write those words down, then you deserve all that is going to come your way, as does Andrew (F?) Meyer.
Andrew Meyer remains the one and only appropriate societal target merely for his having been so stupid as to have had that message written on a document which probably didn't pass through too many sets of hands before it reached its target.
Nowthen, to #120/121... I went to Yelp, and read Andrew's so-called "version" of the story. I failed to locate the part about his girlfriend being "anorexic" (nor would it matter). That he posted such a review as a way of damage control long after the fact makes it meaningless. And nobody is "protecting" Vic... for all we know, she may have a grow-op somewhere, and by having brought this undue attention UPON HERSELF, she may be condemned for that or other (more likely) misdeeds.
To #122 - You said it, we didn't. Just like with Facebook, it was YOUR CHOICE to sign-up for having your data a part of a vast, PUBLIC database. That you did so falls on nobodies shoulders but your own (as was the case with Andrew Meyer... and thankfully, because we all know that society is 'society', he WILL get what is justifiably coming to him)
To #124 - Yes, the explanation is easy: "... because every OTHER voter's birthday is public information" (don't ignore the obvious)
To #135 - If Andrew Meyer's girlfriend, ("anorexic" or not), was the stupid person who wrote the note, and brought the wrath of the whole world down on Andrew Meyer, then HE DESERVES it... for first having been dumb enough to trust her in any way. That she betrayed that trust in a way that is going to do him considerable harm is poetic justice. Furthermore, when Andrew Meyer incurs enough of the public's wrath and revenge it might, hopefully, reach a point where it harms such a would-be-stupid girlfriend at the same time.
157
@156, VICTORIA LISS LIED. SHE HAS ADMITTED THAT SHE LIED. Your defense of that fat liar makes you look ridiculous. She is a liar. She has admitted that she is a liar. And she is fat.
158
I'm reposting from CHS in it's entirety a response from the wife of the man that Victoria Liss mistakenly accused, and upon whom she unleashed an Internet lynch mob, with Dan's help:
"To Whom It May Concern:
I just finished reading your article - Another Andrew Meyer apology - and would like to make a response. I am absolutely sickened by the amount of press coverage Victoria Liss is receiving from the media regarding the public social media crusade she started against my husband, Andrew "Andy" Meyer. Andrew Meyer is a common name and I am not certain the number of different Andrew Meyer's she "attacked" before claiming my husband was THE customer who stiffed her from a tip and made a degrading comment about her weight. However, she decided to post my husband's picture which, in turn, led to others "digging up" information on him...some going as far to find his photo and college information from the Texas Tech Phi Kappa Psi website.
I would like to clarify for the record that she has not personally apologized to Andy regarding the situation she created. She has apologized through those who write the articles about this situation and to those who read her facebook wall. My husband received disturbing messages, some as far as threatening to kill him, for days. And I received countless messages harassing me about marrying a "national joke".
The mistake was discovered after my husband contacted Cha Cha Lounge to let them know that we had moved from Seattle to Dallas three years ago and have not been to visit since. They responded that they would take down the post but could not control those who had already re-posted his picture. Fortunately, they came out several hours later with an apology (both personally and publicly). It's unfortunate that an individual and business would react to a negative situation through the use of social media to bully/harass another individual rather than respond in an appropriate manner.
What does this say to our children who are bullied/harassed on a daily basis by their peers in school? Often times the end result is catastrophic - alcohol/drugs, dropouts, suicide, etc. It is my hope that all parties involved - Victoria, Cha Cha Seattle, and news sources - really use this opportunity to reflect on the consequences of how they attempted to resolve this particular manner and, in the future, THINK before they start a campaign to victimize somebody else.
Sincerely,
Jennifer Meyer"
More...
"To Whom It May Concern:
I just finished reading your article - Another Andrew Meyer apology - and would like to make a response. I am absolutely sickened by the amount of press coverage Victoria Liss is receiving from the media regarding the public social media crusade she started against my husband, Andrew "Andy" Meyer. Andrew Meyer is a common name and I am not certain the number of different Andrew Meyer's she "attacked" before claiming my husband was THE customer who stiffed her from a tip and made a degrading comment about her weight. However, she decided to post my husband's picture which, in turn, led to others "digging up" information on him...some going as far to find his photo and college information from the Texas Tech Phi Kappa Psi website.
I would like to clarify for the record that she has not personally apologized to Andy regarding the situation she created. She has apologized through those who write the articles about this situation and to those who read her facebook wall. My husband received disturbing messages, some as far as threatening to kill him, for days. And I received countless messages harassing me about marrying a "national joke".
The mistake was discovered after my husband contacted Cha Cha Lounge to let them know that we had moved from Seattle to Dallas three years ago and have not been to visit since. They responded that they would take down the post but could not control those who had already re-posted his picture. Fortunately, they came out several hours later with an apology (both personally and publicly). It's unfortunate that an individual and business would react to a negative situation through the use of social media to bully/harass another individual rather than respond in an appropriate manner.
What does this say to our children who are bullied/harassed on a daily basis by their peers in school? Often times the end result is catastrophic - alcohol/drugs, dropouts, suicide, etc. It is my hope that all parties involved - Victoria, Cha Cha Seattle, and news sources - really use this opportunity to reflect on the consequences of how they attempted to resolve this particular manner and, in the future, THINK before they start a campaign to victimize somebody else.
Sincerely,
Jennifer Meyer"
161
hey danny-
more about your favorite fat chick
"Problem was that the Andrew Meyer that Liss vilified (she posted a link to his Facebook page and a photo) was the wrong Andrew Meyer.
Well, turns out that this isn't the first time that Ms. Liss has had experience accusing the wrong person of something awful.
In September 2007, Matthew Oly and Bryan Krieger were arrested and charged with felony harassment after Liss and a friend of hers, Marcus Wilson, identified them as having threatened to kill Wilson.
But six months later it became clear that Liss and co. weren't actually too sure that they had the right guys.
According to court documents obtained by Seattle Weekly, Wilson told officers that he was walking on Pike Street in Capitol Hill around 4 a.m. when someone asked him to borrow change. Wilson denied the request and kept walking, but when he did he said the person called him a "faggot" and threatened to kill him.
The man then supposedly followed Wilson and continued to hurl homosexual slurs at him until a second person rode up on a bicycle and started calling Wilson a "faggot" as well.
At this point Liss called Wilson--the two worked together at Pony at the time--to arrange to meet him, and Wilson answered the phone "in a panic."
Wilson told Liss that he was being "gay bashed" and to come quickly.
Liss told police that when she met Wilson, he was encircled by two men, both threatening to kill him.
At one point another man, Christopher Lynch, approached the group and began to call Liss "ugly," at which point she "became enraged" and called 911.
By the time police arrived, the two main harassers had left, but Liss and Wilson provided descriptions of them and two men, Kreiger and Oly, were arrested shortly afterward.
Liss and Wilson were then taken to the location where the two were being detained, and they identified the pair as the men who had harassed and threatened Wilson.
The two were quickly booked into King County Jail, and four days later both men were charged with felony harassment, though both denied it was they who'd done the harassing.
Skip about six months: Kreiger submitted to a polygraph test about the incident--a test he passed with flying colors.
Meanwhile, Liss and Wilson suddenly began to have doubts about both Oly and Kreiger being the ones who made the threats.
Suddenly the case was dismissed.
According to the Order of Dismissal, the reason for dropping the case was not only the results of the polygraph test, but also due to "some uncertainty as to the identity of the perpetrators."
King County Prosecuting Attorney spokesperson Dan Donohoe explains further. "I spoke with Deputy [King County] Prosecutor Mike Hogan. His recollection was that Liss and Wilson became less certain of the identity of the people responsible."
That was, of course, after the two had been jailed, charged, forced to retain lawyers, submit to polygraph tests, and generally have their lives turned upside down for several months.
Note: Liss did not respond to numerous calls for comment about this incident."
More...
more about your favorite fat chick
"Problem was that the Andrew Meyer that Liss vilified (she posted a link to his Facebook page and a photo) was the wrong Andrew Meyer.
Well, turns out that this isn't the first time that Ms. Liss has had experience accusing the wrong person of something awful.
In September 2007, Matthew Oly and Bryan Krieger were arrested and charged with felony harassment after Liss and a friend of hers, Marcus Wilson, identified them as having threatened to kill Wilson.
But six months later it became clear that Liss and co. weren't actually too sure that they had the right guys.
According to court documents obtained by Seattle Weekly, Wilson told officers that he was walking on Pike Street in Capitol Hill around 4 a.m. when someone asked him to borrow change. Wilson denied the request and kept walking, but when he did he said the person called him a "faggot" and threatened to kill him.
The man then supposedly followed Wilson and continued to hurl homosexual slurs at him until a second person rode up on a bicycle and started calling Wilson a "faggot" as well.
At this point Liss called Wilson--the two worked together at Pony at the time--to arrange to meet him, and Wilson answered the phone "in a panic."
Wilson told Liss that he was being "gay bashed" and to come quickly.
Liss told police that when she met Wilson, he was encircled by two men, both threatening to kill him.
At one point another man, Christopher Lynch, approached the group and began to call Liss "ugly," at which point she "became enraged" and called 911.
By the time police arrived, the two main harassers had left, but Liss and Wilson provided descriptions of them and two men, Kreiger and Oly, were arrested shortly afterward.
Liss and Wilson were then taken to the location where the two were being detained, and they identified the pair as the men who had harassed and threatened Wilson.
The two were quickly booked into King County Jail, and four days later both men were charged with felony harassment, though both denied it was they who'd done the harassing.
Skip about six months: Kreiger submitted to a polygraph test about the incident--a test he passed with flying colors.
Meanwhile, Liss and Wilson suddenly began to have doubts about both Oly and Kreiger being the ones who made the threats.
Suddenly the case was dismissed.
According to the Order of Dismissal, the reason for dropping the case was not only the results of the polygraph test, but also due to "some uncertainty as to the identity of the perpetrators."
King County Prosecuting Attorney spokesperson Dan Donohoe explains further. "I spoke with Deputy [King County] Prosecutor Mike Hogan. His recollection was that Liss and Wilson became less certain of the identity of the people responsible."
That was, of course, after the two had been jailed, charged, forced to retain lawyers, submit to polygraph tests, and generally have their lives turned upside down for several months.
Note: Liss did not respond to numerous calls for comment about this incident."
162
Anybody who's defending this cyberbullying crap is full of shit. He's done it before with a person who didn't like Michael C. Hall's gay character. I mean, that was fucking petty especially when her platform is a FB post and his is a nationally read blog/syndicated column/whatevs. Dan got a lot of good will for the campaign against bullying for gays and he deserves that. It's not a bad analogy at all to compare the two if we think all humans deserve the benefit of the doubt without direct knowledge of the situation. Even bad Andrew Meyer deserves that--of course a lot of snarky assholes will disagree. Yet Dan helped to instigate death threats against innocent Andrew Meyer(s) as well.
But hey, Dan usually bullies/shames fat people. Now he's sticking up for 'em without even thinking about it.
So that's progress, right?
But hey, Dan usually bullies/shames fat people. Now he's sticking up for 'em without even thinking about it.
So that's progress, right?
163
Check your sources before you post tripe. "[S]mall role" eh? You played the BIGGEST role. You're a cyber-bully.
164
wow I didn't know he got death threats or to what extent the harassment actually went . Dan are you sure that is ALL you are sorry for? This is pretty concerning that you would use your "power" so carelessly against others. I only know you from the it gets better campaign and the Santorum definition but after reading this latest apology again i can honestly say I am not interested in knowing anything more about you. You sounded as vindictive as ms. Liss. Maybe that is just your thing like I said I don't know much about you but I could almost imagine you stamping your foot in a huff with your arms folded. Like I said maybe that's what you were going for.
165
One last thing... You Dan Savage are a Bully. There is absolutely to argument to that now proven fact. Talk about self destructive behavior.
168
Hey Owners of Bimbos/Cha cha,
Great publicity, huh? I've never been to your place of business. Been following the whole story, though. Maybe a quick look at your yelp review might be in order. Hmm, even the GOOD reviews point out that the service is sub-par! And the bad reviews are all about bad service. Sounds like your food is acceptable, but I gotta say, I can find acceptable food with good service in lots of other places... shoot, even the dreaded Azteca has polite, friendly wait staff!
Regarding tipping... it's not a right! Good service while eating out deserves a decent tip. I don't think that a big tip for bad service is deserved. I've not tipped only 2-3 times ever, and on those occasions, the service was totally horrible! I tip 99.999999% of the time... I figure it's part of eating out. Reading the yelp reviews, it's clear that those who are cool enough get good service at your business... and anyone who does not meet the standard should be grateful for even being served at all!
A GREAT restaurant gives great service to everyone...
Great publicity, huh? I've never been to your place of business. Been following the whole story, though. Maybe a quick look at your yelp review might be in order. Hmm, even the GOOD reviews point out that the service is sub-par! And the bad reviews are all about bad service. Sounds like your food is acceptable, but I gotta say, I can find acceptable food with good service in lots of other places... shoot, even the dreaded Azteca has polite, friendly wait staff!
Regarding tipping... it's not a right! Good service while eating out deserves a decent tip. I don't think that a big tip for bad service is deserved. I've not tipped only 2-3 times ever, and on those occasions, the service was totally horrible! I tip 99.999999% of the time... I figure it's part of eating out. Reading the yelp reviews, it's clear that those who are cool enough get good service at your business... and anyone who does not meet the standard should be grateful for even being served at all!
A GREAT restaurant gives great service to everyone...
169
That's why I won't tip for crappy service. I don't care if they depend on tips for their wages. If they do depend on tips for their wages, then they should make sure they are giving good enough service to get tips.
I'm the one paying the patronage. The money that I have is money I have put out effort to make. I'm not going to take the money that I earn, earned by being good to my clients and ensuring that they get quality service, and throw it at some waitress who acts like she's doing me a favor by deeming to take my money at her restaurant. It's called the 'service' industry for a reason. Those who can't give proper service shouldn't be doing it.
I'm the one paying the patronage. The money that I have is money I have put out effort to make. I'm not going to take the money that I earn, earned by being good to my clients and ensuring that they get quality service, and throw it at some waitress who acts like she's doing me a favor by deeming to take my money at her restaurant. It's called the 'service' industry for a reason. Those who can't give proper service shouldn't be doing it.
170
I saw this in unregistered comments, but was about to link to it anyhow. Apparently, this other thing happened awhile back, where a friend of Ms. Liss's got gay-bashed & they wound up accusing/identifying the wrong guys:
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweek…
So, I dunno. This more recent "wrong Andrew" fat comment incident seems like a hefty overreaction on her part, especially with the history of having cried wolf on the wrong people previously. AND I don't think they should be able to post the guy's signature, AND frankly, I heard way worse when I tended bar, AND the Yelp review would indicate that Ms. Liss started it. :/ Should someone just insult a server? No way, that's dehumanizing & insensitive. But there's a whole lotta dog-piling of stuff to indicate that Gawker, Jezebel & Dan leaped to inaccurate conclusions here.
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweek…
So, I dunno. This more recent "wrong Andrew" fat comment incident seems like a hefty overreaction on her part, especially with the history of having cried wolf on the wrong people previously. AND I don't think they should be able to post the guy's signature, AND frankly, I heard way worse when I tended bar, AND the Yelp review would indicate that Ms. Liss started it. :/ Should someone just insult a server? No way, that's dehumanizing & insensitive. But there's a whole lotta dog-piling of stuff to indicate that Gawker, Jezebel & Dan leaped to inaccurate conclusions here.
171
Liberals believe capital punishment is morally WRONG because sometimes the wrong person is convicted and killed.
Likewise, internet character assassination is MORALLY WRONG because innocent people will be irreparably hurt.
Danny is the internet's pot bellied redneck bigot Southern Governor, willy nilly executing the wrong people with nary a whiff of remorse...
Likewise, internet character assassination is MORALLY WRONG because innocent people will be irreparably hurt.
Danny is the internet's pot bellied redneck bigot Southern Governor, willy nilly executing the wrong people with nary a whiff of remorse...
172
I'm confused. I read the Yelp review, and it said they ordered two margaritas, and tacos, and then a final round of drinks... and then he mentioned that the margaritas were $10 and there was actually a mistake on the bill that overcharged him... but didn't the credit card receipt that she posted list $28 and some odd cents? Maybe my math is wrong here, but shouldn't the drinks alone have been more like $40? Plus whatever the tacos were?
I'm just curious about this. I don't think it really matters what exactly happened. I do think the resulting witch hunt is sad. And as someone who has a really difficult time apologizing, I think it would be good for Dan to remember that sometimes a half-hearted apology is worse than just not saying anything at all. I think you're awesome, Dan, and it'll take more than this to make me think anything less, but I do wish you had handled this better. especially considering the collateral damage.
I'm just curious about this. I don't think it really matters what exactly happened. I do think the resulting witch hunt is sad. And as someone who has a really difficult time apologizing, I think it would be good for Dan to remember that sometimes a half-hearted apology is worse than just not saying anything at all. I think you're awesome, Dan, and it'll take more than this to make me think anything less, but I do wish you had handled this better. especially considering the collateral damage.
173
Dan, if you want to use your platform for good, please shout to the world about this vindictive bitch as loudly as you did when you thought she was a poor abused dive bar server. Act like you demand that Christian advocates do when they trumpet someone who turns out to be a dirty POS in real life. Posting a contrite mea culpa on the slog doesn't count. You made this into a national story, you fix it.
Why the fuck does this cunt still have a job? I'll never spend another dollar at a place that lets some butthurt famewhore publish a customer's credit card receipt to incite a witch hunt.
Why the fuck does this cunt still have a job? I'll never spend another dollar at a place that lets some butthurt famewhore publish a customer's credit card receipt to incite a witch hunt.
174
Haven't you people hunted down Andrew Meyer yet???
Get off your butts, do some research, stay away from Westlake, and put your union to good use in the way of overwhelming Andrew Meyer.
And here's a tip: Don't begin (anew) with Andrew Meyer's who live in Texas and who haven't been around Seattle in years!!
All of the other build-up and aftermath to that receipt is just craaaaaaaaaaap. It doesn't matter how many drinks he had, or what type they were, that his tip was $0.00, or that there was a miniscule mistake on his tab. Andrew Meyer needs to be hunted down and made to own-up to his written statement on that receipt.
Get off your butts, do some research, stay away from Westlake, and put your union to good use in the way of overwhelming Andrew Meyer.
And here's a tip: Don't begin (anew) with Andrew Meyer's who live in Texas and who haven't been around Seattle in years!!
All of the other build-up and aftermath to that receipt is just craaaaaaaaaaap. It doesn't matter how many drinks he had, or what type they were, that his tip was $0.00, or that there was a miniscule mistake on his tab. Andrew Meyer needs to be hunted down and made to own-up to his written statement on that receipt.
176
@OdeToTheLustyLady,
Are you serious? You still think this ridiculous infantile attack needs to be continued, over something just about any reasonable adult on the planet would shrug off? Even after Liss has been shown to be a completely unreliable source? Are you planning to go after her for the numerous racist, rude, offensive comments she herself wrote all over her Facebook page? I don't see you demanding that she be "hunted down and made to own-up" to any of the things she said about other people.
Here I thought people might have actually learned a lesson about what sort of behavior actually warrants an internet lynchmob of this nature, and that a comment about "stand[ing] to loose[sic] a few pounds" was not one of those behaviors.
Are you serious? You still think this ridiculous infantile attack needs to be continued, over something just about any reasonable adult on the planet would shrug off? Even after Liss has been shown to be a completely unreliable source? Are you planning to go after her for the numerous racist, rude, offensive comments she herself wrote all over her Facebook page? I don't see you demanding that she be "hunted down and made to own-up" to any of the things she said about other people.
Here I thought people might have actually learned a lesson about what sort of behavior actually warrants an internet lynchmob of this nature, and that a comment about "stand[ing] to loose[sic] a few pounds" was not one of those behaviors.
177
To 'Chessie' and all the rest of you:
Were this a mere battle between persons Andrew Meyer and Victoria Liss, and they were conducting this battle out of earshot of all other people, then nobody would care whether they fought to the death. Victoria Liss's character has exactly no bearing on Andrew Meyer's offence - NONE WHATSOEVER !!!
Furthermore, Liss as a "completely unreliable source" doesn't matter at all either, for she presented us all with the source document. Had Liss somehow forged this document in an attempt to zero in on one particular target, it is highly unlikely the person's name would randomly be "Andrew Meyer", AND if it was, Liss would never have fingered the wrong Andrew Meyer (somebody in Texas, who hasn't even set foot in Seattle in years, for god's sake!).
So, once you break this whole episode down, it becomes all of the servers of this society against one Andrew Meyer.
That The Stranger and its editor thought it perfectly appropriate to call-out a random "Andrew Meyer" assures that it is clearly far much more than appropriate for Mr. Drew Meyer to be outed and publicly shamed by as many servers (other women, and overweight people) world-wide who see fit to take action. (for the record, I recognize this despite never having been among any of those 3 groups)
Now get off your butts and do some research and hunt him doooooooooooown !!!
And Chessie, no one anywhere should be made to "shrug off" a blatantly offensive, written statement offered point-blank in one's workplace. Can you understand that much????
Were this a mere battle between persons Andrew Meyer and Victoria Liss, and they were conducting this battle out of earshot of all other people, then nobody would care whether they fought to the death. Victoria Liss's character has exactly no bearing on Andrew Meyer's offence - NONE WHATSOEVER !!!
Furthermore, Liss as a "completely unreliable source" doesn't matter at all either, for she presented us all with the source document. Had Liss somehow forged this document in an attempt to zero in on one particular target, it is highly unlikely the person's name would randomly be "Andrew Meyer", AND if it was, Liss would never have fingered the wrong Andrew Meyer (somebody in Texas, who hasn't even set foot in Seattle in years, for god's sake!).
So, once you break this whole episode down, it becomes all of the servers of this society against one Andrew Meyer.
That The Stranger and its editor thought it perfectly appropriate to call-out a random "Andrew Meyer" assures that it is clearly far much more than appropriate for Mr. Drew Meyer to be outed and publicly shamed by as many servers (other women, and overweight people) world-wide who see fit to take action. (for the record, I recognize this despite never having been among any of those 3 groups)
Now get off your butts and do some research and hunt him doooooooooooown !!!
And Chessie, no one anywhere should be made to "shrug off" a blatantly offensive, written statement offered point-blank in one's workplace. Can you understand that much????
179
The Lusty Lady was cool - you aren't.
Ms. Liss has definitely been hoisted by her own petard - 5 years from now when she's looking for another job she's gonna seriously regret the Google joke her name has become.
Ms. Liss has definitely been hoisted by her own petard - 5 years from now when she's looking for another job she's gonna seriously regret the Google joke her name has become.
180
It infuriates me that there is this mindless obsession with "rallying to the defense" of another "wronged woman" in all ways possible... and in this case there is NO credibility or consideration given the customer involved. Everything is on the fat girl's word. Everything. No consideration given any snarky comments given by her, or any lousy attitude of entitlement on her part, or any notion that she simply has an axe to grind against most any man anywhere anytime. After all - she has "feminist" views... i.e. she is "held back" and wronged because she packs a vag. And if she feels that way - then it must be true. Right?
Reverse the genders here. Firswt of all - it wouldn't even be a story. It would be a case of "suck it up dude!" Now consider if a woman had come to that bar, gotten bent over something and then wrote a comment to the male server that he needs to work out, or brush his teeth, or have a bath, etc., etc., etc., and then HE proceeds to go on line to track, identify, and vilify HER far and wide in the social mainstream media, what then? He would immediately be cast as a stalker, as a predator, and as a woman-hating abuser. SHE (the woman) would still be the martyred little victim. I'm sure Savage (head firmly up his ass) would still be rallying to her cause. After all, it's so nicely PC, culturally mandated, and just damned easy to do. So enlightened!
I hope the Andrew Myers in Texas files a libel action and sues this fat cunt's fat fucking ass off. What a filthy example of a culture she is - and to have her treated as a victim in national news is enough to make one puke.
Reverse the genders here. Firswt of all - it wouldn't even be a story. It would be a case of "suck it up dude!" Now consider if a woman had come to that bar, gotten bent over something and then wrote a comment to the male server that he needs to work out, or brush his teeth, or have a bath, etc., etc., etc., and then HE proceeds to go on line to track, identify, and vilify HER far and wide in the social mainstream media, what then? He would immediately be cast as a stalker, as a predator, and as a woman-hating abuser. SHE (the woman) would still be the martyred little victim. I'm sure Savage (head firmly up his ass) would still be rallying to her cause. After all, it's so nicely PC, culturally mandated, and just damned easy to do. So enlightened!
I hope the Andrew Myers in Texas files a libel action and sues this fat cunt's fat fucking ass off. What a filthy example of a culture she is - and to have her treated as a victim in national news is enough to make one puke.
181
Barney, you don't get it.
For there to be "no credibility", you'd have to rewind the last 2 1/2 weeks and erase the offensive statement from the receipt. Even you, who is now the king of "no credibility" went on to write as if the offensive note were a given.
There is nothing before or after the moment he wrote that offensive statement on her receipt which could possibly right the wrong done unto her.
Needless to add, the "social media" does as it pleases once given a target. In such cases the "social media" is as strong or as weak as is any individual. That allows the rest of us to just stay out of the way and let it happen...
Nowthen, lets say that indeed the genders were "reversed"... and, say, it was me who had been the target of such an inexcusable offense. Unlike Victoria Liss I would have done immediate and extensive research to narrow the candidates down even further from the extreme few which exist locally now. My grand retribution would have come down far more stealthfully, and along less-wobbly means than Facebook. I'm not even sure if I'd need to enlist the help of friends let alone that of a self-serving community newspaper (whose priorities have so far been to target some Texas resident for the offense while not seeming to care about the actual culprit despite earlier implications).
Drew Meyer's being in the wrong (and offering further evidence of his being very dense) is cemented by the fact he was stupid enough to leave such a note associated with a perfectly identifiable credit card bill. Had Drew Meyer not been that stupid, he wouldn't have much of society hunting him down as I write.
For there to be "no credibility", you'd have to rewind the last 2 1/2 weeks and erase the offensive statement from the receipt. Even you, who is now the king of "no credibility" went on to write as if the offensive note were a given.
There is nothing before or after the moment he wrote that offensive statement on her receipt which could possibly right the wrong done unto her.
Needless to add, the "social media" does as it pleases once given a target. In such cases the "social media" is as strong or as weak as is any individual. That allows the rest of us to just stay out of the way and let it happen...
Nowthen, lets say that indeed the genders were "reversed"... and, say, it was me who had been the target of such an inexcusable offense. Unlike Victoria Liss I would have done immediate and extensive research to narrow the candidates down even further from the extreme few which exist locally now. My grand retribution would have come down far more stealthfully, and along less-wobbly means than Facebook. I'm not even sure if I'd need to enlist the help of friends let alone that of a self-serving community newspaper (whose priorities have so far been to target some Texas resident for the offense while not seeming to care about the actual culprit despite earlier implications).
Drew Meyer's being in the wrong (and offering further evidence of his being very dense) is cemented by the fact he was stupid enough to leave such a note associated with a perfectly identifiable credit card bill. Had Drew Meyer not been that stupid, he wouldn't have much of society hunting him down as I write.
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