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Monday, October 24, 2011

Religious Bigot to Straight Parents: Ask Hospitals to Keep LGBT Staff Away From Your Children

Posted by on Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:18 AM

Rightwing lunabigot Linda Harvey of Mission America is advising parents to "communicate" to hospitals that they do not want "open homosexuals"—a.k.a. members of a hospital's LGBT employee organization—to care for their children lest the gay rub off:

Do you think these folks provide good role modeling at a time when your child is very vulnerable? [Let’s] say your eleven year-old has broken her leg rather badly and needs to be in the hospital a few days, which would you prefer: a nurse who’s proud of her lesbianism, who has rainbow identifiers on her work clothing, or a nurse who does not?

I would like to suggest that parents think long and hard about this. If you want your children to admire people who proclaim a homosexual lifestyle, they’re involvement with your child during a hospital stay is sure to be an influence. And let me be clear that folks involved in these behaviors can be certainly competent workers but they are tacking on to their workplace identity one that is highly offensive to many people and can be erroneously influential to children who won’t, or shouldn’t, see the whole picture of how this behavior really manifests itself.

Harvey suggests that parents write "a letter that you file with your pediatrician that should your child ever be hospitalized, you do not want your child to be treated or cared for" by a gay. But first a parent needs to "select [a] pediatrician very carefully," Harvey warns, because secretly gay pediatricians might ignore your advance hate directive... or they might whistle show tunes during office hours or invite your kids to brunch or something else that's gay and terrible!

Harvey notes that straight parents should clearly communicate that it's okay for gay and lesbian doctors and nurses to treat their children in "emergency situations," which can be seen as either tremendously gracious on Harvey's part—"Well, okay, that lesbian nurse can save my daughter's life"—or as the kind of wishy-washy moral relativism that is destroying the moral fabric of this great nation.

 

Comments (147) RSS

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MacCrocodile 1
I know she's been around for a while, but it seems like I've been hearing a lot about her lately. Is she doing some kind of PR Crazy blitz?
Posted by MacCrocodile http://maccrocodile.com/ on October 24, 2011 at 7:37 AM · Report this
Jennifer in Chicago 2
Excuse me, I broke MY wrist when I was eleven. I doubt my mother gave two shits about who or what my doctors and nurses did in the privacy of their own homes.
Posted by Jennifer in Chicago http://truthinessandbullshit.blogspot.com on October 24, 2011 at 7:39 AM · Report this
3
A child infected with impure ideas should be dead to you, anyway, so what would be the point of emergency treatment? Making an exception for when your child needs emergency treatment is just like making an abortion exception for rape and incest. I fully expect all the Republican candidates at the next debate to denounce Harvey's lack of moral certitude.
Posted by Eric from Boulder on October 24, 2011 at 7:40 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 4
But @ 2, they FLAUNT IT IN YOUR FACE. Don't you get it?

I expect more and more of this as true LGBT equality comes closer to reality.
Posted by Matt from Denver on October 24, 2011 at 7:41 AM · Report this
Vince 5
Can you imagine somebody saying if an Asian or African American works at the hospital, they don't want them treating their child? Any parent that listens to medical advice from religious fanatics shouldn't even be a parent. I'm reminded of the Oregon couple that were recently found guilty in the death of their child because they used prayer instead of medicine on a child with an easily cured illness.
Posted by Vince on October 24, 2011 at 7:43 AM · Report this
MacCrocodile 6
@5 - You'll never convince them that sexuality is congenital. But, to play along with the choicers for a moment, if someone refused to allow a Jewish or Christian nurse touch their child, that'd be something.

But so help me god, no damned left-handed person will lay a backwards hand on my child!
Posted by MacCrocodile http://maccrocodile.com/ on October 24, 2011 at 7:49 AM · Report this
this guy I know in Spokane 7
@5 No no, you see, being gay is a CHOICE; being ethnic is simply a birth defect. Those Negroes and Orientals can't help being what they are --- that's why we should feel sorry for them, and admire their persistence in the face of adversity, instead of vilifying them. They're doing the best they can with the cards they've been dealt.

(However, if a black doctor sets your daughter's broken leg and she grows up to have a thing for black men... well, you have only yourself to blame.)
Posted by this guy I know in Spokane on October 24, 2011 at 7:50 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 8
Well, she probably figures that if the child needed emergency treatment, it might already be unconscious ... and therefore wouldn't notice that One. Of. Those. People was treating the wee one.

Seriously, her obsessive fetish about denying productive members of society the respect to which they are entitled is disgusting. But I guess it's what she's reduced to spouting, if THEY can't be fired due to orientation.

God, Froot Loops makes more sense than she does!
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on October 24, 2011 at 7:51 AM · Report this
kim in portland 11
I have a chronically ill child, and all I care is that they know what they are doing and they have compassion. If your priority is the sexual orientation or gender identification of who those who care for your child instead of being about the actual care your child is receiving, then you're a lousy parent.

This woman saddens me, but I thank her for the work she does for equality and justice. Her attitude just fuels the change. They have lost. When your religious polls show that 67% of religious Millennials support equality then the tide has turned. Heck, the president of Focus on the Family even
admits this. But, yay, she found a way to milk fifteen more minutes of "fame".
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on October 24, 2011 at 7:59 AM · Report this
12
Can't wait for one of these letters to actually be filed. The hospical will simply decline to admit the patient. Who will then claim discrimination.
Posted by Texans on October 24, 2011 at 8:04 AM · Report this
Gus 13
Someone needs to create a nice little symbol that the bigots can wear -- some kind of anti-rainbow non-pink-triangle thing -- so the rest of us can start demanding that we not receive treatment from them, less the bigotry rub off.
Posted by Gus on October 24, 2011 at 8:07 AM · Report this
14
Why, yes, Mrs. Harvey: let us discuss the kind of people I would not want to treat my children. We will start with narrow minded religious bigots who see no problem in brainwashing vulnerable minds to share their delusional hatreds, and work out from there.
Posted by TechBear on October 24, 2011 at 8:12 AM · Report this
15
"they’re involvement with your child...."

Was Ms. Harvey home skoold?
Posted by Samuel on October 24, 2011 at 8:12 AM · Report this
16
" who has rainbow identifiers on her work clothing"

Last I checked, nurses were only allowed to wear name tags.
Posted by Hal_10000 on October 24, 2011 at 8:12 AM · Report this
17
@5 It only matters if they are openly Asian.
Posted by jec81 on October 24, 2011 at 8:17 AM · Report this
18
I suggest also making a request to the hospital cafeteria to have uncontaminated silverware. Do you want your children to eat with the same spoon as somebody who has smoked a pole?

I am sure these requests will be taken about as seriously as a guy requesting "no fat chicks."
Posted by Reg on October 24, 2011 at 8:21 AM · Report this
Lola, Missing Iowa City 19
Crap! Another recruiting opportunity foiled again! How else can we fill our ranks, if not to recruit children? WE CANNOT REPRODUCE, thus we must recruit!
Posted by Lola, Missing Iowa City on October 24, 2011 at 8:24 AM · Report this
20
I remember distinctly, when I broke my arm when I was five, the first thing the nurse told me what "where does it hurt". The second thing, of course, was "I'm a lesbian, and you should totally become one too."
That's when I became a lesbian. At least, until 11 years later, when I fell off my bike and went to the hospital again. My nurse then was straight, so I became straight again.
It really is that simple, people!
Posted by juli81 on October 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM · Report this
BEG 21
Do they ever think of anything else besides teh gay? No wonder they're afraid their kids will start thinking of nothing else, as well...
Posted by BEG http://twitter.com/#!/browneyedgirl65 on October 24, 2011 at 8:41 AM · Report this
22
Plenty of eleven year olds have suffered at the hands of heterosexuals. I can't believe the idiocy of some people.

Posted by modrachlan srarmons on October 24, 2011 at 9:00 AM · Report this
23
Oh, wait, does this mean I should raise a stink about the well-meaning nurse who gave crosses to my family when my aunt was dying in the hospital? As I'm an atheist, she was "tacking on" an extra identity to her workplace persona that was fairly offensive to me. I didn't need to be evangelized while trying to focus on my auntie in her last days. Perhaps I should have demanded that she remove the offensive crosses she was wearing. Cuts both ways, Linda dear.
Posted by JrzWrld on October 24, 2011 at 9:04 AM · Report this
Joe Szilagyi 24
Ever more evidence that these people are losing any and all grip on society as the years roll by. Just like on abortion; they're literally running out of viable ideas and each new one is rapidly approaching the level of a Wily E. Coyote level of desperation scheme to kill the gay and/or progressive Road Runner. Meep meep, assholes.
Posted by Joe Szilagyi http://twitter.com/joeszi on October 24, 2011 at 9:05 AM · Report this
25
Maybe the bigots should wear a black/gray/white rainbow. This would signify that no color is allowed into their miserable little lives.
Posted by SeattleKim on October 24, 2011 at 9:14 AM · Report this
Dr_Awesome 26
Gus, there are bigot decals one can get: one occasionally sees jacked- up pickup trucks around here with a copy of the long, narrow rainbow decal, except it reads 'Hetero' in tiny letters, and instead of a rainbow the band alternates black and white rectangles.
And there are black-and-white versions of the american flag, too.
The sad message of these seems to be "I see the world in black and white only, my world has no shades of grey."
Oh, and any jacked-up truck with one of these bigot stickers also always has a cross decal, a jesus-fish, and a 'heretic' decal.
Posted by Dr_Awesome on October 24, 2011 at 9:18 AM · Report this
Rob in Baltimore 27
What if she said something like this?

Do you think these folks provide good role modeling at a time when your child is very vulnerable? [Let’s] say your eleven year-old has broken her leg rather badly and needs to be in the hospital a few days, which would you prefer: a nurse who’s proud of her Judaism, who has Star of David identifiers on her work clothing, (or a Yamaka for a male) or a nurse who does not?

I would like to suggest that parents think long and hard about this. If you want your children to admire people who proclaim a Jewish lifestyle, they’re involvement with your child during a hospital stay is sure to be an influence. And let me be clear that folks involved in these behaviors can be certainly competent workers but they are tacking on to their workplace identity one that is highly offensive to many people and can be erroneously influential to children who won’t, or shouldn’t, see the whole picture of how this behavior really manifests itself.
Posted by Rob in Baltimore http://www.wishbookweb.com/ on October 24, 2011 at 9:24 AM · Report this
28
@23 FTW. I refuse to let my kid be cared for by someone wearing a cross. It's offensive, really, to flaunt that part of your identity. If you choose to be Christian, there is nothing I can do about it, but I don't want you wiping your jesus all over my kid at her most vulnerable. It's inappropriate, really.

And @5, I used to work in a nursing home, and it was very common for the residents to have "No Ethnic" written into their care plan. But then, these were 90 year olds with severe dementia who would flip out if a black/asian/excessively tan white person tried to wipe their ass. Just a fun fact.
Posted by Sugarbush on October 24, 2011 at 9:25 AM · Report this
Certainly! 29
Ms Harvey's obsession with lesbians is starting to look pretty dyke-y...
Posted by Certainly! on October 24, 2011 at 9:26 AM · Report this
MacCrocodile 30
@25 - Gray is the color of moral relativists. The Christians' rainbows are black and white and not at all bent... like prison stripes.
Posted by MacCrocodile http://maccrocodile.com/ on October 24, 2011 at 9:26 AM · Report this
KK_SNH 31
Seriously? Does this douche stay up at night thinking up new ways to teach people ways to pass along descrimination and hate to our kids? STOP THE HATE!
Posted by KK_SNH on October 24, 2011 at 9:40 AM · Report this
32
@27 I was gonna do the same thing - only replacing it with "bigoted religious zealots."
Posted by TB on October 24, 2011 at 9:42 AM · Report this
33
This would never fly at my hospital.
Posted by natalie on October 24, 2011 at 9:47 AM · Report this
34
@31

Yes, unfortunately The Savage does.

And I agree, he should stop the hate.
Posted by Seattleblues on October 24, 2011 at 9:53 AM · Report this
angel in indy 35
My state representative is also a nurse in the cancer unit at our local hospital. She voted in favor of the anti-gay marriage amendment 3 times. (she claims to be a democrat... hah!) If I was in the hospital, I'd be very uncomfortable having her deal with me or my partner. But it never occurred to me to refuse to let her treat us.
Posted by angel in indy on October 24, 2011 at 9:58 AM · Report this
37
I care about medical personnel's competency, compassion, and professionalism in dealing with my two-year-old son. I can't imagine caring about a doctor or nurse's sexual orientation just as I can't imagine caring about something like his or her skin colour, religion, gender identity, ethnicity, etc..

During the first year of my son's life, I'd often talk to a nurse friend of mine about questions and concerns I had about my son. This nurse has spent most of his career working in an NICU. He's a caring, compassionate, and knowledgable nurse who gave me excellent, helpful advice. He's also gay. My husband/son's dad is bi. I'm straight. We have other gay, lesbian, and bi friends. My son's sexual orientation is based on who he is, not who any of us are. The Linda Harveys of the world are so irritating, bigoted, and wrong!
Posted by canada girl on October 24, 2011 at 10:05 AM · Report this
39
Is the lesbian nurse going to be kissing her girlfriend in front of a patient? Obviously not - when a good professional goes to work, whether gay or straight, they leave their sexuality at home. It shouldn't have any influence on patient care, and a rainbow flag is just a symbol that most kids won't understand. This woman is afraid of bigot's stereotypes, not real people.
Posted by I have always been... east coaster on October 24, 2011 at 10:15 AM · Report this
40
I also note that the pedophilia libel, while not explicitly stated, is right under the surface of this bigoted missive.
Posted by I have always been... east coaster on October 24, 2011 at 10:24 AM · Report this
venomlash 41
@5: Absolutely. That's what I said when I (along with about 50 other SLOGgers, I suspect) sent this one in.
Posted by venomlash on October 24, 2011 at 10:25 AM · Report this
42
In 1959, when my mom was pregnant with me, there were 2 OBGYNs stationed on George AFB; one black, one white. On the morning of my Mom's first appointment, the white nurse came out to the waiting room and in a confidential tone told her that she'd been assigned to a "negro" doctor and could be reassigned to a white one if she wanted without any problem. She didn't, and instead she gave me a cool civil-rights era birth story. Moral arc/history/ bends/justice, etc.
Posted by Whitey's Conspiracy on October 24, 2011 at 10:31 AM · Report this
43
Perhaps Ms. Harvey should decline all future medical care for herself...as well as food & beverage. Folks like her are less harmful to the general population once they've achieved room temperature for an extended period of time.
Posted by TampaDink on October 24, 2011 at 10:39 AM · Report this
thatsnotright 44
This brings David Sedaris and the "chocolate Santa" episode to mind. I would imagine there are some good hospitals where te charge nurses would be gleefully assigning the most out staff they could find.
Posted by thatsnotright on October 24, 2011 at 10:40 AM · Report this
45
Whistling show tunes?? Does she honestly believe pediatricians have that kind of time on their hands?
Posted by GibsonGirl55 on October 24, 2011 at 10:50 AM · Report this
46
@34 Get tested for reading comprehension. And do something about your own hate before you go criticizing others. I would also ask you not to lie about other people, but you seem so firmly committed to making false accusations that it's pointless to suggest that you stop. Besides it's kind of fun watching you be as stupid, petty, and bigoted as you claim others are.
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 24, 2011 at 10:51 AM · Report this
47
Won't it be nice when people who think like this will at least be ashamed enough of it to keep their mouths shut?

Good Christians: it really is time to start disowning bigots.
Posted by beef rallard on October 24, 2011 at 10:53 AM · Report this
btmom 48
Because, you know, the only reason a nurse or tech at in a children's hospital/ward might wear scrubs with RAINBOWS on them is to tell people they are GAY. WTF?

This woman is so stupid I am surprised she manages to feed herself. She clearly has no idea how a hospital or other medical facility operates. They can't accommodate crap like this. They have no time and not enough personnel to deal with the bullshit. If a gay nurse is covering the floor your kid is on, what are they going to do, have a nurse from another floor abandon his/her floor to run to your kid when she needs attention? Is there supposed to be a chinese fire drill every time something needs to be done to your kid to accommodate your paranoid bigotry? Get a grip and STFU. Where I live this request legally could not be honored, but I can't imagine any hospital (except one which already discriminates in hiring LGBT personnel) agreeing to honor such a directive.
Posted by btmom on October 24, 2011 at 11:01 AM · Report this
very bad homo 49
This nut case is obsessed with homosexuality. It's a lot more dangerous for her children to be around her, if you ask me.
Posted by very bad homo on October 24, 2011 at 11:08 AM · Report this
Nofo 52
I'm not sure what I'd do if I were an emergency room doctor and Maggie Gallagher or Pat Robertson or Antonin Scalia or any of their ilk came in needing life-or-death medical care. I guess it's good for the courts that I'm not a doctor and I'll never find out ...
Posted by Nofo http://nofo.blogspot.com on October 24, 2011 at 11:13 AM · Report this
53
Every time I spend inordinate amounts of time trying to figure out if someone is homosexual, they're always rubbing my nose in it.
Posted by cpt. tim on October 24, 2011 at 11:14 AM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 54
"Come to the LGBT side. We have brunch."
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on October 24, 2011 at 11:20 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 55
@ 46, I know you like taking on SB (it's a dirty job, so we're glad you're doing it), but he was clearly trying to be clever.
Posted by Matt from Denver on October 24, 2011 at 11:23 AM · Report this
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot 56
@5

Let's not kid ourselves: there was a point in country's history when it was "normal" for whites to refuse to be seen by black nurses or doctors (those who could afford to go to school for it, that is). That was the segregated South. Whites and blacks couldn't use the same toilets, drinking fountains, schools...

Yes, that time passed (no pun intended) with a fight, so will this.
Posted by Whiskey Tango Foxtrot http://lifetimesshortnow.blogspot.com on October 24, 2011 at 11:27 AM · Report this
57
@55 I get that he was trying to be clever and as usual failed spectacularly. It's his old trick of "I can't defend [insert name of bigot/homophobe/idiot] so I'll throw out a dishonest attack against Dan instead". I decided not to play along. And if you look at some of the other things he's written he really does have a problem with reading comprehension.
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 24, 2011 at 11:30 AM · Report this
58
Oh my god. As a lesbian nurse at a pediatric hospital, I am TOTALLY buying a rainbow pin to put on my ID tag.

Last week, a major hospital in my city started an official rainbow sticker / ID badge program to make sure GLBT patients and families were feeling respected and validated. Even the straight allies wear them. I would *love* to have this wingnut have to get admitted to this hospital - her head would implode from all the gay.
Posted by kitty demure on October 24, 2011 at 11:35 AM · Report this
jackdee 59
This shit just makes me angry. I didn't know that was possible anymore...

Fucking bigots. Why can't they all drink the kool-aid and kill themselves already!
Posted by jackdee on October 24, 2011 at 11:38 AM · Report this
60
@17: Or if they are promoting the Asian lifestyle.
Posted by Eric from Boulder on October 24, 2011 at 11:41 AM · Report this
62
So...If THE most qualified surgeon for whatever surgery your child need just happens to be gay, you would rather a less qualified person care for them? That seems downright irresponsible. Like those parents who forbid their deathly ill child from receiving care because receiving care would be somehow thwarting "god's Will"
Posted by Jrlschumacher on October 24, 2011 at 11:51 AM · Report this
63
To be fair, she's right. A sick kid may very well look up to an admire a capable gay care giver and therefore not grow up to be a homophobe.

Where she's looney-tunes is in thinking that is a bad thing.
Posted by amiller92 on October 24, 2011 at 11:54 AM · Report this
snoozn 64
I was once in a situation where I should have written a note to the hospital that I didn't want my daughter exposed to religious wingnuts. A few days after the Columbine shooting I had to take my youngest to Denver Children's Hospital for some tests. My older daughter, who was six at the time was with me too. While I stayed with the baby to comfort her during the tests, my six-year-old stayed with a nurse in another room. On my way home I found out the nurse had talked to her the whole time about Columbine and how the killers were in Hell now and what was happening to them. Scared the shit out of her. And SO INAPPROPRIATE. So yes, this is stupid. I think medical PROFESSIONALS need to avoid all controversial/religious/political discussion with children, ESPECIALLY when the kids' parents aren't around.
Posted by snoozn on October 24, 2011 at 11:58 AM · Report this
65
Yep, that is indeed the kind of thing that people in the future will look at with amazement ('how could they be so mean to other people?'). Just as the attitudes feelings of pre-Civil-Rights-movement Southern racists are now difficult to understand ('would they feel really so bad if that black guy sat at a table in their restaurant, or drank from their fountain, or sat at the front of the bus?').

Which means that a good reason to keep this woman's letter on file is historical documentation. When the first scholarly account of homophobia in the late 20th / early 21st century is written, this is the kind of materials the author(s) will need.
Posted by ankylosaur on October 24, 2011 at 11:59 AM · Report this
balderdash 66
Well, this makes perfect sense if you really do believe that homosexuality is a (breathtakingly ill-advised unless you enjoy fear) choice. And that it's wrong and bad and that Jesus loses his boner when the wrong people touch each other.

My suggestion is that you worry more about keeping your children away from clergy.
Posted by balderdash http://introverse.blogspot.com on October 24, 2011 at 12:08 PM · Report this
mommyducky 67
@65 You are absolutely right!
Posted by mommyducky on October 24, 2011 at 12:22 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 68
@ 57, I disagree. A response like yours is exactly what playing along is to him. He says something silly and generates an angry response from someone. It's the name of the troll game.

He doesn't have reading comprehension problems, he has a reality comprehension problem.
Posted by Matt from Denver on October 24, 2011 at 12:22 PM · Report this
Rev.Jim 69
Obviously this brilliant person is clueless about the critical nursing shortage in this country. Hospitals would hire homosexual demons with horns and tails if they came with an R.N. license and were willing to work hospital surge. Yeah, good luck with that one, Cunterella de Ville.
Posted by Rev.Jim on October 24, 2011 at 12:40 PM · Report this
Vince 70
@56 That was my point. Thanks for saying it better than I did.
Posted by Vince on October 24, 2011 at 12:42 PM · Report this
71
@5 I can. I worked in a health care clinic years ago, with one caucasian doctor and one african-american doctor. A patient came in one time and freaked out that she was going to be treated by the AA doctor. The other doctor was not in that day - I can't remember how it was resolved but it was a big honkin WTF moment for me.
Posted by genevieve on October 24, 2011 at 12:54 PM · Report this
72
@28. hahaha, excessively tan...
Posted by ilovecake on October 24, 2011 at 12:59 PM · Report this
73
Arguing that gay citizens are due equal treatment under the law is pretty hard to dispute. I personally wouldn't want to take that tack anyway, or see how it could be defensible under the Constitution or basic morality or ethical treatment of others.

Come to that, I can't see how hating someone based on their poor personal sexual choices is Christian as I understand the term. Nor can I understand how those choices are my business from that same perspective.

Picking the internet apart each and every day to see a) how bad those evil Christians are and b) how horribly MEAN people are for your lifestyle choice of homosexuality is just as tricky as trying to defend people like this woman though. It's silly, childish, petty. It's the behavior of a perpetual adolescent. In others words, Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Dan Savage.

I could care less if Savage, my neighbor, my attorney or my health care provider are gay. Just isn't on my radar of things that merit my time and attention. However, I feel a deep repugnance for those that having chosen a lifestyle dislike the social consequences of that choice and whine about those consequences incessantly.

For people like Savage the gay anthem would run to words to the effect if 'It isn't FAAAIIIRRR!!!!!!' From my 5 year old this is irritating but understandable. From a nearly 50 year old man it's simply contemptible.
Posted by Seattleblues on October 24, 2011 at 1:02 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 74
every minute you spend on slog, SB, is a minute taken away from your family. so fuck off home.
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on October 24, 2011 at 1:06 PM · Report this
75
So what if the gay/lesbian doctor has a better success rate than the straight? What if the only resident that's available in an emergency situation is gay? I'm guessing that even the most bigoted parents, when faced with these circumstances, are not even going to think to ASK. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it illegal for hospitals to start keeping "gay lists" around?
Posted by MinnySota on October 24, 2011 at 1:12 PM · Report this
76
@73 Explain how exactly Dan wanting to live his life and marry the person he loves affects you. Can you?

Maybe you should go back and read what exactly it is that Linda Harvey is saying, and see what Dan is criticizing. Or are you actually defending what she's saying? It sounds like you're not, but you're also trying to distract people from the issue by making completely nonsensical claims. From a 5 year old this would be understandable. I don't know how old you are, but presumably you're old enough to know better. So grow up.

Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 24, 2011 at 1:17 PM · Report this
very bad homo 77
@73 - What do you get out of being here on Slog?
Posted by very bad homo on October 24, 2011 at 1:21 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 78
@77: an erection, no doubt.
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on October 24, 2011 at 1:30 PM · Report this
79
And God forbid a person of color take care of your child lest any of that rub off. She is an idiot.
Posted by Mitch on October 24, 2011 at 1:36 PM · Report this
kim in portland 80
"Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Dan Savage" is silly sounding, Seattleblues.

Do you know why it is silly? Because many here have met him. Some of us have chatted on the phone even. Others have been introduced to his family members. Some have sat down and ate a meal or chatted over a beer. You see, your attempting to introduce us to someone we know.

I think you are right, society is frowning. A good number of us are frowning at you. We frown at you because you insist that we should have second class citizens. We frown at you because you are talking about and pretending to know someone that many of
us socialize with.

I'll tell you what is exceedingly frustrating, in my opinion, an about 40 year old man who makes up falsehoods and uses coy nicknames like "The Savage" or "Bwarney Fwank". Nigh, it isn't exceedingly frustrating it is distressingly sad. But, hey, it's my $0.02 and I'm aware that it is an opinion that can be dismissed.

Enjoy your day.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on October 24, 2011 at 1:37 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 81
@ 78 FTW.
Posted by Matt from Denver on October 24, 2011 at 1:45 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 82
Kim, do you use a mac or a windows clone?
Posted by Matt from Denver on October 24, 2011 at 1:46 PM · Report this
kim in portland 83
Matt,

My phone. Being legally blind, I can bring it up to my face and see okay, eventhough I have to wear two sets of corrective lenses. Why are my typos hurting your eyes?
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on October 24, 2011 at 2:01 PM · Report this
84
@ 74

I work from home.
Posted by Seattleblues on October 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM · Report this
85
@78 and 81

Keeping your strange little fantasies to yourselves would be more seemly...
Posted by Seattleblues on October 24, 2011 at 2:27 PM · Report this
86
@80

"Because many here have met him. Some of us have chatted on the phone even. Others have been introduced to his family members. Some have sat down and ate a meal or chatted over a beer. You see, your attempting to introduce us to someone we know."

My deepest sympathies. Being in the presence of that level of moral decreptitude, active malice and even evil is truly a horrible way to spend anyones time.

I don't know the fortuitously named Savage. I never will, if my inclinations are consulted.

I don't know one tree from another either, in a general way. But I know the apple tree in my backyard by it's yearly output. And I know Savage by the damaging effect he and those like him have on society.

I have never advocated for second class citizen status for any person. As things stand the laws apply equally to Savage and myself. I can marry a woman, and so can he. He can't marry a man, and neither can I. He and I must equally accept the social consequences of our romantic choices. Perfect equality under the law.

People like Savage do however in insisting that gays have the right to set the social and legal terms for the vast majority of their fellow citizens based solely on their lifestyle choices.
Posted by Seattleblues on October 24, 2011 at 2:34 PM · Report this
87
Good God. You know what? If I had kids I would want them cared for by people who did their jobs, behaved professionally, and dressed appropriately. THAT is good role modeling. If a doctor or nurse or other staffer is behaving sexually at work, then there's a problem, but a rainbow pin, holding hands, or a peck on the cheek from a visiting significant other is not a problem.
Posted by DRF on October 24, 2011 at 2:44 PM · Report this
88
@Seattleblues.

So, in your moral universe, the work of the Anti-Defamation League, or the Southern Poverty Law Center, to locate, publicize, and denounce examples of bigotry would amount to nothing but childish whining. Like Mr. Savage, their work (in your eyes) amounts to hollering "It isn't FAIIIIRRR!"

Cultured adults, as you imagine yourself, are so ethically and emotionally superior to those silly fools who make such a childish BOTHER about bigotry. So much wiser, and nobler, to spend one's idle moments trolling and sneering than emulating fools like Pastor Bonhoeffer.
Posted by Functional Atheist on October 24, 2011 at 2:51 PM · Report this
kim in portland 89
Thank you for the laugh, Seattleblues.

You can't convince me that you are not morally decrepit, and not active in your malice. I am glad that you finally admit to not knowing Dan Savage. So in the interest of integrity you'll stop with the falsehoods. Yes?

I do not need nor want your sympathy. But I shall give you this, though, spending time with someone blind to his moral failings and full of perceived moral superiority is a "horrible waste of time." I have tasted the "fruits" of your writings here and fine them unhealthy, even if they are amusing.

Take care.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on October 24, 2011 at 2:54 PM · Report this
91
@88

The SPLC is a bit more questionable than the Anti Defamation League in their ideologically blinded choices, but both are at least attempting good work. And neither are in any way comparable to the execrable Savage.

Dan Savage and the other writers here lie consistently. When they don't lie openly, they misrepresent what others write or say. They read only far left echo chamber sources and skew even those farther left in misleading headlines to postings. The SPLC should be eyeballing Savage and the Stranger if they're after hate groups as much as some of the admittedly bigoted groups they do list.

For reference, see the ongoing jihad Savage is waging against Rick Santorum. Mr. Santorum isn't a public official, nor likely to become one. He has no effect on the life of Savage or anyone else who simply ignores him. But since Savage tasted the bullies' power of a vicious and vulgar personal campaign against the man he simply can't do without that addiction. This is of a pattern with pretty much any political stance taken by the Stranger. Personal attack stands in for reasoned analysis, and unsupported assertions for supporting cites.

Comparing this cesspool to the occasional good work of the SPLC and Anti Defamation League is itself defamatory.
Posted by Seattleblues on October 24, 2011 at 3:19 PM · Report this
MirrorMan 92
Well, I see our favorite village idiot has poked his head from his burrow, and unleashes yet more typed drivel resembling mental diarrhea. Case in point:”I have never advocated for second class citizen status for any person. As things stand the laws apply equally to Savage and myself. I can marry a woman, and so can he. He can't marry a man, and neither can I. He and I must equally accept the social consequences of our romantic choices. Perfect equality under the law.”
Well, let’s just make a slight change to this statement and see if we can’t make it a little clearer, hmm?
“I can marry a woman AS LONG AS THEY ARE OF THE SAME RACE.”
Wasn’t that long ago the rule of the law said the above was true. Of course, things have changed since then, but some people refuse to evolve. Fine by me. It never ceases to amaze me how some people can be so obtuse about certain things, and refuse to examine their point of view. Of course, the easy answer is because they are an idiot.
Posted by MirrorMan on October 24, 2011 at 3:28 PM · Report this
MirrorMan 93
@91:
"Mr. Santorum isn't a public official, nor likely to become one."

Really? Man, you must have blown a lobe or something. Not a big history fan, I take it. Or up on current events. Or, as I posted previously, maybe you're just an idiot. Should we have a Slog Poll for that? I mean, that was just a FAIL of epic magnitude...
Posted by MirrorMan on October 24, 2011 at 3:33 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 94
pay no attention to SB. he's nothing but a pack of cards.
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on October 24, 2011 at 3:34 PM · Report this
95
@ Seattleblues
Sounds like privileged dominant culture baby needs his bottle so hims less cwanky.
Posted by Trifle on October 24, 2011 at 3:39 PM · Report this
MirrorMan 96
@94

And he is short a deck.
Posted by MirrorMan on October 24, 2011 at 3:41 PM · Report this
97
Glance in the mirror, man-

You do realize that Rick Santorum isn't a public or elected official at present, right?

And you do realize his poll numbers and campaign status strongly suggest that he has the proverbial snowballs chance in hell of becoming president, right?

And you realize that there is a huge difference between being born a woman or black or asian and being born with a predilection to homosexuality? No? Who's the idiot again?
Posted by Seattleblues on October 24, 2011 at 3:41 PM · Report this
KittenKoder 99
Religious nuts are just insane.
Posted by KittenKoder http://digitalnoisegraffiti.com/ on October 24, 2011 at 3:55 PM · Report this
MirrorMan 100
Seattleblues, if running for the office of POTUS, and appearing on television in debates, making public appearances and speeches, if having been on television as a paid commentator, if issuing press releases, if having previously served as an elected official, does not make one a public figure, what, pray tell, does? It has nothing to do with whatever chances they have.

And there is a huge difference between being born a woman or black or asian and being born with a predilection to homosexuality? What ever could it be? Since you are the self-proclaimed genius who spewed this pile of crap, how about you 'edjumucate' the rest of us heathens?

Seattleblues, this has been said before, and it so rightly applies to you: "It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

You have just spewed stupid all over Slog. do you know how hard it is to clean that up? Man, what a tool.
Posted by MirrorMan on October 24, 2011 at 3:57 PM · Report this
this guy I know in Spokane 101
I can't believe people keep feeding this troll whenever it shows up. WTF. Is it fun or something?
Posted by this guy I know in Spokane on October 24, 2011 at 4:00 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 102
@ Kim, I was just wondering. I know how to write "2¢" on the mac but not on windows.
Posted by Matt from Denver on October 24, 2011 at 4:03 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 103
@ 101, it's just to let him know that he can fool himself, but he can't fool us.
Posted by Matt from Denver on October 24, 2011 at 4:06 PM · Report this
106
A former US Senator who is running a sufficiently credible campaign for POTUS to be invited to every debate is a public figure. Whining about attacks on Rick Santorum is the true analogue to the behavior of SeattleBlues' tantrum-prone five-year old. That Santorum is unlikely to win his party's nomination does not render him an private figure.

On the contrary, his poll standings mean that his presence in the battle for the Republican nomination is primarily to promote his particular beliefs, and himself, on the national stage. Therefore denouncing those beliefs is rendered more relevant, not less, by his marginal poll standings, as his purpose in the race is not to win it. Rather, his candidacy's purpose is to promote those very beliefs and Santorum's status as spokesperson for Republicans who share them.



Posted by Functional Atheist on October 24, 2011 at 5:02 PM · Report this
Sandiai 107
@104, your comment is hidden, so I've pasted it below.
I would also add that there are a lot of straight people on SLOG that also enjoy Dan and his politics as well. I have a special fondness for people who rail against bigotry and are fearless about it, even if they have potty mouths (on occassion). In fact, I have a bit of a crush on Dan, it's just that my crush doesn't TORMENT me, like our friend here.

"Dear Seattleblues,

An intelligent person can easily see that even with your extensive use of pretty words, your opinion about Dan Savage is obviously negative. Extending that negative opinion to the rest of the GLBT community, however, is what irritates us.

Nobody asked to you comment originally on this particular blog. You did that of your own accord, and you did so with a presumptuous air, or even better yet, with the arrogance of an entitled individual who apparently made the RIGHT choices in life and now live by the better graces of society. You then proceeded to insinuate that sexuality is a choice, and that we of the GLBT community have chosen to live in a lifestyle that degrades us to the second-class citizenship, and therefore deserve to live in that particular state. Let me clarify. Sexuality is not a choice, and those who believe that are (for the most part) either uneducated or Christian. This is why Dan Savage blatantly attacks both institutions, but because Christians are typically larger, more organized, and more directly involved in establishing anti-gay laws and ordinances, they are much easier to target. Now I will clarify further. Not only is sexuality not a choice, but a choice of religion is, and while I would really like to beat the crap out of the 7th Day Adventists with their own Book of Morman when they knock on my door, I cannot do that legally, so I attack them with something that is protected by the Constitution, which is freedom to speech. And yet these 7th Day Adventists have more protections for their personal choices than I have for my inborn characteristics. See the problem?

Firstly, if you do not like Dan Savage, do not read his work. Do not come here to criticize. If this is what makes you feel morally or intellectually superior, you clearly have some issues to work out. The people that do read his comments are people that enjoy what he has to say because we believe that in most of his opinions, he is right. Secondly, if you do not like gay people, and you have made it clear that you don't care for us, do not go out of your way to speak to us. Not only will we consider you to be an idiot, but we may also suggest that your presence here is an unconsious reflection of your inner desires, just so that we may get you to leave.

After all, Dan Savage has every right to engage in a moral crusade against people who have gone out of their way to state that a priority of theirs is to deny or take away GLBT rights and liberties. If you do not like that, then why are you reading up on it in the first place? That sounds more to me like the actions of a petulant child than anything he is doing. At least what he is doing has a purpose. You are just full of hot air."
More...
Posted by Sandiai on October 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM · Report this
108
Now I kinda hope she ends up requiring a long term care provider, and the only one around for her specialized treatment is gay. It'll be a Driving Miss Daisy kind of situation, they'll make a movie later.
Posted by JudT on October 24, 2011 at 5:35 PM · Report this
109
So, let's see if I get it straight, Seattleblues: you actually agree with what Dan wrote in this post (i.e., you're against anti-gay discrimination in hospitals), and yet you think Dan is bad because he wrote it?

This does make your personality more interesting, I admit. Would you care to explain why a guy complaining is bad when you happen to agree with the content of the complaint?
Posted by ankylosaur on October 25, 2011 at 3:32 AM · Report this
110
@101, Seattleblues is here only because he wants to play the bully, i.e. whenever he can pretend he's doing good Christian works by trying to hurt others he actually enjoys it. It's sort of fun to keep pointing out to him how his actions are in disagreement with his professed philosophy -- and then see him ignore this fact. As if he could fool his God about his real intentions here...
Posted by ankylosaur on October 25, 2011 at 3:36 AM · Report this
Rob in Baltimore 112
97, Seattleblues, Running for a national public office makes one a national public figure. Have you noticed he regularly appears on national television and radio? He's fair game for political skewering. Ricky, whines like a baby when Saturday Night Live lampoons him in a skit.

Rick Santorum's central plank in his campaign is that if he is elected president, using his power as an elected public official, he'll work to make Biblical law about gay people public law. Should Santorum be elected president, (unlikely, I know) he will be putting his and on the Bible, and swearing to uphold The Constitution, not the other way around.

Also, gay people can't help what sex they were born any more than a person can help being born black or Asian.
Posted by Rob in Baltimore http://www.wishbookweb.com/ on October 25, 2011 at 5:21 AM · Report this
113
@91
Dan Savage and the other writers here lie consistently. When they don't lie openly, they misrepresent what others write or say.


Seattleblues, you keep making this claim but every time you're challenged to come up with specific instances you back down. Making that claim in the same thread where you've admitted Dan Savage is right just makes you sound even more ridiculous.

You can't lie about others and then claim to be morally superior. Well, I guess you can, since that's exactly what you do, but it doesn't make it true. It's just like complaining others are acting like children when you're acting so immature yourself.

As for Dan being evil, again, examine yourself before you make that accusation. You spew all kinds of insults and hatred and then you complain that others are doing the same thing. Contradicting your stupidity isn't a violation of your rights, Seattleblues. Grow up.
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 25, 2011 at 5:21 AM · Report this
114
So would it be okay for parents who don't want Black nurses/doctors to make a request that the hospital keep Black health care providers away from their children?

Ms. Harvey is a jerk.

When you go to the hospital for treatment/healthcare, the color, sexual orientation, ethnicity, race, and religion of the staff is irrelevant.
Posted by Patricia Kayden on October 25, 2011 at 6:28 AM · Report this
115
She lost me at "they're". Well, a lot before that but still, once a grammar pedant...
Posted by private universe on October 25, 2011 at 6:50 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 116
@110 (ankylosaur)

Though it may be
fun to keep pointing out to him how his actions are in disagreement with his professed philosophy -- and then see him ignore this fact
it does get tedious about the four-hundredth time (is anybody keeping stats here?) and it was a lovely respite to not have to see that name for a while in the comments section.

Mind you, I'm sure that kim in portland, scary tyler moore and others are correct in wondering why anybody would endure such a masochistic exercise - to actively seek to read a column by a man he loathes. Considering that comments can come in 24/7 - and that every moment on this forum IS a moment taken away from his oh-so-precious wife, son AND boat - we really have to wonder at the depth of his obsession with Dan.

::shakes head sadly:: Nope, not healthy at all. I think he needs to go away on a long vacation on that boat of his.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on October 25, 2011 at 7:15 AM · Report this
117
How bout just letting those fuckers stupid fat fucking children die? I mean, with those genes it'll just be good riddance.
Posted by Moonmaid on October 25, 2011 at 8:02 AM · Report this
Rujax! 118
I sure didn't miss that fuck "Seattleblues".

I'm sorry he's back.
Posted by Rujax! http://rujax.blogspot.com/ on October 25, 2011 at 9:46 AM · Report this
Rob in Baltimore 119
118, He wanted to stay away. He tried to stay away. He was white knuckling it, swearing he'd quit slog once and for all, but Seattleblues' Dan Savage obsession got the better of him.
Posted by Rob in Baltimore http://www.wishbookweb.com/ on October 25, 2011 at 11:05 AM · Report this
120
@119 Maybe he'll stay away this time since it was pointed out to him that he was actually agreeing with Dan Savage. I don't think he realized that, especially with all his rambling about what a liar Dan is. If he takes the time for any introspection he might say to himself, "Savage is a liar, but I agree with him, which makes me..."
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 25, 2011 at 11:22 AM · Report this
121
Well don't that just burst my buttons with the warm and fuzzies! Y'all missed me while I was out killing Bambis daddy this past week! For you vegetarians out there, nothing beats venison stew with a good salad and a bottle of stout on a winter evening. You just don't know what you're missing.

FYI, I don't just comment on Little Danny Boy the Savages half literate ramblings. I note the lunacies of that pre-eminent boob Charley Mudede when I can stomach them. I comment on Goldsteins odd obsession with McKenna, and failed leftist policy generally. (Of all these....gentlemen...at least this one has some faint glimmering of intelligence. Too bad he wastes it in the service of a childish and failed political and social belief system.) Frizzelle and the other boy toys on the Stranger staff rarely write anything even comprehensible but on the rare occasions they do I'll respond to their delusions. Granted I don't waste my time on the 'cultural' postings and my gag reflex can't handle the weirdos and deviants writing to Mr. Savage in his sex advice column. But the shallow and lying political columns I consider fair game, since the mindset displayed is perhaps the single greatest threat to this nation at the moment.

Not of course because Savage or Goldstein or Mudede or Constant have any substance. They don't, steeped as they are in their own moral relativism and general cynacism. This precise decay is however the threat as it spreads across this great country. As students are brainwashed into this same moral blank the media takes over and confirms for them that nothing is true or worthwhile or decent. Patriotism? Jingoist crap! Family? A holdout from when we needed such anachronisms! Integrity? The delusion of a former age! This is the message Savage and his disgusting ilk spread in every word they speak or write. As young people abused by this educational system and pop culture, for lack of a better word, mature into what passes for them as adults this nation becomes a lesser one with each subtraction of a thinking human being and replacement with a leftist automaton.

To paraphrase a bad poet, 'this is the way the US ends, this is the way the US ends, this is the way the US ends, not with a bang but with a whimper.'
More...
Posted by Seattleblues on October 25, 2011 at 11:31 AM · Report this
122
@121 Until you grow up I think you should refrain from saying others are immature.

I'm still waiting for you to provide some specific examples of some of Dan's lies. So far you haven't been able to, but that's okay. I think you know who the real liar is. Still, you have admitted you agree with Dan on more than one occasion, so even according to you not everything he says is wrong.

It looks like you didn't spend any of your time out in the woods improving your spelling ability either. Maybe when you finally become an adult you'll learn to use a dictionary.
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 25, 2011 at 11:36 AM · Report this
MirrorMan 123
Seattleblues, you like to present yourself as a deep thinker, that much is obvious. So deep a thinker, it seems, that you don't know who is a public figure.

Unless you want to clear that up?
Posted by MirrorMan on October 25, 2011 at 11:36 AM · Report this
124
@123

I don't 'present myself' as anything. I write how I write, though of course the tone in a note to my wife and in political discourse do change.

What I wrote, only you seem to have missed the point, is that Rick Santorum isn't a serious threat to Dan Savage or anyone else, no matter what he believes. What Savage is engaging in is bullying, pure and simple.

Were he to engage in a serious debate I'd take him seriously. Since he can't, since in rational debate he knows he'll lose every time, he engages in petty personal abuse and a vicious campaign against Mr. Santorum and his family. This would be contemptible even if Mr. Santorum were credibly a current or future elected or appointed official. Since he isn't, it merely shows Savage to be not only contemtible but a bully and hate monger.
Posted by Seattleblues on October 25, 2011 at 11:45 AM · Report this
125
@121 By the way, I'm glad we could warm your heart by being happy to see you return. I doubt your family felt the same way.
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 25, 2011 at 11:45 AM · Report this
126
@124 "Were Seattleblues to engage in a serious debate he might be taken seriously. Since he can't, since in rational debate he knows he'll lose every time, he engages in petty personal abuse and a vicious campaign against those he disagrees with, including Dan Savage and his family."

There, I fixed it for you.
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM · Report this
127
@122

Ah. So if someone you find loathsome and repellant, not to mention wrong on nearly everything of importance, were to be right in a few tangential instances that conclusively demonstrates your adherence to their worldview.

Intriguing.

Now, with your permission a client lunch and a full afternoons work mean I won't be able to tilt at windmills any longer today.

Have a pleasant day.
Posted by Seattleblues on October 25, 2011 at 11:48 AM · Report this
blip 128
She's gonna be really disappointed when she finds out the gays have completely infiltrated the health care industry. Even the straight ones are 'friendly.' Best of luck finding a sympathetic health care provider who are willing to discriminate against their employees on your behalf, lady.
Posted by blip on October 25, 2011 at 11:52 AM · Report this
129
@127 I find it intriguing that you know Dan is right but you can't bring yourself to outright admit it. Instead you have to make a lot of false accusations to try and distract people from the fact that you can't defend someone he's criticizing.

I hope you're more honest with your clients than you are here, but I wouldn't count on it. Maybe you're allowed to take those long vacations because whatever company you work for is better off when you're not around.

Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 25, 2011 at 11:55 AM · Report this
MirrorMan 130
Poor Seattleblues. He knows what knows. Don't confuse him with the facts.
Posted by MirrorMan on October 25, 2011 at 12:10 PM · Report this
131
So, it's THAT easy . . . well, if any one of my three daughters is hospitalized, I think I will be expressly requesting gay nurses. As a father, I am terrified of all the things that might happen to them during their teenage years and this might be a way to cross one of them (pregnancy) off the list. I am sure that once those straight nurses got done with them, they'd be looking to hook up with every boy who might cross their path which - if some have their way - will be w/no birth control available, I now have a new strategy if they get hurt or injured (my prior strategy was to push them toward becoming nuns (tough starting point being Jewish and all)). Parenting is so hard and I feel so lucky that the Slog would promote Harvey's Helpful Hints.
Posted by From the South (as in CA) on October 25, 2011 at 1:21 PM · Report this
venomlash 132
@127: I think the bigger point is that you can't provide any examples of Dan telling an outright lie. And no, stating an opinion that you disagree with does not count as lying.
Posted by venomlash on October 25, 2011 at 1:23 PM · Report this
133
Indication that a gay person can do something good and nice for you is a Lying Fact, and children might not understand that Lying Facts are to be ignored.

(It's a Lying Fact because it contradicts the True Fact that gay people are totally depraved and can sow nothing but sin and discord...the True Fact does not need mere evidence to back it up, but might look dicey in the presence of an apparent disproof-by-example.)
Posted by Gerald Fnord on October 25, 2011 at 2:19 PM · Report this
134
@129

"I hope you're more honest with your clients than you are here, but I wouldn't count on it. Maybe you're allowed to take those long vacations because whatever company you work for is better off when you're not around."

Kind of. I'm self employed.

Also, I never once mentioned Savages'family, extended or the euphamistic one at his home. Sure, I pity the poor young man growing up with no moral or ethical example, no example of a functioning heterosexual romantic relationship and all the other disadvantages under which he labors. But how that pity would be an attack is a bit beyond me.

@132

Savage and the others here repeatedly mis-state the findings of studies or other supposedly supporting cites, state what the findings in fact are in mis-leading headlines, claim that government officials with whose politics they disagree are doing things they simply aren't, and generally misleading anyone foolish enough to believe a word they write. Outright lies? Only on rare occasions, but lies by ommission are far more common than journalism for this bunch.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for vigorous debate about the issues of the day. I just don't see where leaving civility and truth out of your techniques are helpful to persuading anyone not already on your side. This is true of Fox News or the official mouthpieces for Democratic propaganda like NPR or MSNBC. If you respect your audience you tell them the whole truth about a thing and let them draw the conclusions they will. If you're a lying partisan hack with no understanding of the profession of journalism, you write for the Stranger or host a show on some joke network, as Maddow and Schultz and Limbaugh do.
Posted by Seattleblues on October 25, 2011 at 5:40 PM · Report this
venomlash 135
@134: You say that Dan Savage et alii do X, Y, and Z, but you still don't give any examples. It's like you're entirely estranged from facts or reality.
Posted by venomlash on October 25, 2011 at 6:29 PM · Report this
136
Come to think of it, a lot of the magazines in hospital waiting rooms are about interior decorating or celebrity gossip. Coincidence?
Posted by James Hutchings on October 25, 2011 at 7:28 PM · Report this
137
"Also, I never once mentioned Savages'family, extended or the euphamistic one at his home. Sure, I pity the poor young man growing up with no moral or ethical example, no example of a functioning heterosexual romantic relationship and all the other disadvantages under which he labors."

The eagle-eyed reader may notice a slight contradiction in the above statement.
Posted by James Hutchings on October 25, 2011 at 7:32 PM · Report this
kim in portland 138
You can't be the judge of civility or truth, Seattleblues. You struck out with all your own lies and incivility. You're really silly these days.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on October 25, 2011 at 7:49 PM · Report this
MirrorMan 139
Seattleblues@134: "I just don't see where leaving civility and truth out of your techniques are helpful to persuading anyone not already on your side."

Truth.

Well, you said it, not us. Truth.

Practice what you preach....if you can.

Somehow, I just don't see it happening.

You have proven yourself to be a lying, prevaricating, and altogether heinous individual with an axe to grind which you attempt to conceal under a veneer of civility. An attempt at which you fail miserably.

Face it, Seattleblues, you aren't even good enough to be a bad example.
Posted by MirrorMan on October 26, 2011 at 12:09 AM · Report this
140
@134 "Also, I never once mentioned Savages'family, extended or the euphamistic one at his home. Sure, I pity the poor young man..."

Brilliant, Seattleblues. You claim you've never done something which you then turn around and do. You've referred to the person you call a "poor young man" as Dan's son in previous comments, just as you've admitted that Dan and Terry are legally married. Oh, wait, those are facts, so I guess you'll ignore them. You must know you're wrong, though. Your spelling and arguments always get worse when you know you're lying. And you really don't know anything about how Dan's son is growing up any more than I know your children are stupid and selfish, even though you've implied that they are.

To restate what MirrorMan has said, practice what you preach. Give three specific examples of the following:

1. Special rights that homosexuals are asking for.

2. An instance of Dan lying.

3. An instance of Dan attacking someone else's children.

I won't hold my breath waiting because I'm pretty sure you won't answer. You never do, because if you could you would have given examples long ago.
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 26, 2011 at 5:26 AM · Report this
geoz 141
I have enough to worry about; I'm sure glad I don't have to lay awake at night worrying about new and twisted ways my kids can be influenced by the gay agenda. Linda must get a loads of meds to help counter the anxiety she must feel. "The gays, the gays, they will get you ANYWHERE!!"
Posted by geoz on October 26, 2011 at 6:21 AM · Report this
KittenKoder 142
@141 if only these people were smart enough to realize that they don't even know who's gay most of the time.
Posted by KittenKoder http://digitalnoisegraffiti.com/ on October 26, 2011 at 8:04 AM · Report this
Fifty-Two-Eighty 143
Really, so true. We need to do something about. Maybe a tattoo across their forehead?
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty http://www.nra.org on October 26, 2011 at 8:15 AM · Report this
Through Fade Away 144
This sounds all too familiar...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Citi…
Posted by Through Fade Away on October 26, 2011 at 12:55 PM · Report this
145
I see. For you folks a lie means 'I disagree with your opinions.' You might consult a dictionary.

As for Savage and his little copies at the Stranger one needs look no further than the lying posts regarding the police attempting to enforce the law in Oakland today. Savage and Constant make no attempt to use credible sources (Mother Jones? Seriously?) or find why the police were forced to resort to light force on a crowd of unruly hooligans. No. They simply libel the good men and women of law enforcement in Oakland without a single attempt at actual journalism.

Granted this isn't a lie of commission, exactly. If all a person read were partisan propaganda sources he or she might be tempted to believe those sources, assuming also a very low level of intelligence. I know, I have to admit low intelligence appears to be a job requirement for Stranger staff, but since Goldstein, Constant, Savage and the rest actually do have access to reputable news sources they can't use this defense.

No, what they do is lie by ommission. They present a few facts out of all context, mis-state what their cites or studies actually say, make absurd claims based on those facts or cites, and call this practice journalism.

Again, these...gentlemen...aren't themselves worth the disputing. They are moral and ethical blanks by choice. They're incapable of making a stand in which principles and evidence come into play by this very choice. After all, if you've decided that no moral or ethical system is inherently superior, how can you take a stand on one? But what they represent in their puny little way is a broader existential threat to the future of this great country. Sure, they have the emotional and intellectual development of particarly poorly behaved children, but they aren't content with their own immaturity. Unless and until their depravity is mirrored in every community in this nation, until it is in fact celebrated as virtue, these barbarians won't be satisfied. And that really is the threat.
More...
Posted by Seattleblues on October 26, 2011 at 1:39 PM · Report this
146
But, Seattleblues, if you're so convinced that Dan is bad and a liar, why the heck are you here, writing comments?

That's always been the funny thing about you to me. You see, the answer is more or less clear: you're a bully, and you like inflicting pain on others against their will. And that is sad -- especially for someone who thinks he is a Christian.

Please, explain that. If Mr Savage is such a deep pit of vice and wrongness, what are you doing here?
Posted by ankylosaur on October 26, 2011 at 1:52 PM · Report this
147
SB, the funny thing about you saying Dan is not making an effort to find reliable sources? It's as if you think Dan is an old-style news reporter who should in his blog exercise fact-checking to the highest level, etc. Instead of being an advice columnist giving his opinion on stuff he happened to have read.

It's funny -- in the very process of attacking and offending Mr Savage, you make the assumption that he is more than he is. That he should be held to higher standards that your average blogger should. It's almost as if you harbored a secret admiration for him. :-)
Posted by ankylosaur on October 26, 2011 at 1:58 PM · Report this
blip 148
@145 They're incapable of making a stand in which principles and evidence come into play by this very choice.

Oh my word, that's rich. I see an awful lot of words in that comment -- a few too many of them to bother reading, tbh -- and not a whole lot of evidence. Just try backing your statements up with empirical facts. In case you haven't noticed, your opinions aren't very highly regarded around here.

@137 That doesn't exactly require an eagle eye. Just the ability to read.
Posted by blip on October 26, 2011 at 2:03 PM · Report this
kim in portland 149
A lie is an untruth, Seattleblues. You can point out the lies of other's all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you lie. You lied when you proclaimed Mr. Savage went to sex clubs, and Mr. Savage refuted your claim himself. You lied on this thread when you claim that you have said nothing about Mr. Savages extended family and son before. You've made uncivil and mean spirited comments many times before, I've personally have addressed you on this matter. There is no pretty way to put it. You lie and that is your reputation here. No amount of pointing at others changes this fact. Pointing it out isn't having a difference of opinion, it is stating that we observe that you have a problem with personal integrity.

Here is an opinion. I think you are capable of better. I think you owe your self-made proclamation of being a devout Christian a better example on this blog. I think you should be providing an example that shows a commitment to honesty, compassion, humbleness, and an ability to turn your cheek. That is my $0.02.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on October 26, 2011 at 2:26 PM · Report this
150
@147, I do think that Dan *could* fact check a little better occasionally. Witness the trouble a couple of weeks ago. Being a blogger does not absolve one of responsibility.

@145, I see that you are once again changing the subject.
Posted by clashfan on October 26, 2011 at 2:42 PM · Report this
151
They can stick with Christian doctors. That'll just make it easier for the rest of us to see doctors who believe in science.
Posted by pox on October 26, 2011 at 3:43 PM · Report this
venomlash 152
@145: A lie of omission requires that there be some crucial bit of information that changes the meaning of the rest of the story. Learn your terms:
"One lies by omission when omitting an important fact, deliberately leaving another person with a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. Also known as a continuing misrepresentation. An example is when the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly but does not tell that a fault was reported at the last service."
Posted by venomlash on October 26, 2011 at 3:52 PM · Report this
MirrorMan 153
Kim, you said: "Pointing it out isn't having a difference of opinion, it is stating that we observe that you have a problem with personal integrity."

Seattleblues DOES have a problem with personal integrity. That problem is a simple one: He lacks it altogether.
Posted by MirrorMan on October 26, 2011 at 5:13 PM · Report this
154
@145 "For you folks a lie means 'I disagree with your opinions.' You might consult a dictionary."

Sorry Seattleblues, that's your definition of a lie, not mine, and, as far as I can tell, not that of most other people here. And you've previously said that Dan is lying when his mouth is moving. Now you're accusing him of committing lies of omission, even though it's been pointed out that you don't know what that term means. It's obvious who here needs to consult a dictionary.

You conveniently ignore questions you can't answer, but just for laughs I'm going to ask again that you provide specific examples of the following:

1. Special rights that homosexuals are asking for.

2. An instance of Dan lying.

3. An instance of Dan attacking someone else's children.
Posted by Tiffany Lamp on October 27, 2011 at 4:09 AM · Report this
KittenKoder 155
@154 Okay, while I can't stand most of what SB posts ... it's just sickly misinformed, there are some things that do appear as "asking for special privileges". Though they are double edged ... so I personally have not voiced against them until seeing the effects they had, which since they're positive thus far I see them as good for everyone (speaking on hate crime legislation). But, those are "special privileges" in a way.

Another such instance (one that could hurt the TGLB people most) is the same thing that turned disability into a liability for hiring. One that I fear because ... well, the trans community is the one that can't always hide their identity during the hiring process (especially if they do a background check). It's a hard call, on one hand there needs to be some special protection of the type, but on the other if that protection gets abused it will detriment the whole. This can be perceived as "asking for special privileges" as well. It's all a matter of perspective .. and opinion.

However, until people like SB learn to at least STFU about their stupidity, such things will continue to happen. I dream like MLK ... of a truly equal society, one where everyone is considered equal, no questions, no need for special protection, none of that, but I don't expect people to stop hating. The difference lies in the law and how it treats people. Freedom of speech and expression has a dark side, it means we must also tolerate legal and non-damaging expressions of hatred as much as others. It sucks, yes, but you can't say one opinion is wrong to voice and still say you support freedom of speech or expression.
Posted by KittenKoder http://digitalnoisegraffiti.com/ on October 27, 2011 at 5:06 AM · Report this
venomlash 156
@155: If sexual orientation and gender identity are made protected categories under hate crime laws, it will be just as illegal to discriminate against a cisgendered heterosexual as against a transsexual or a homosexual. Everyone is protected equally.
This is what I keep telling Seattleblues every time he says that Teh Ghey is asking for special treatment.
Posted by venomlash on October 27, 2011 at 8:28 AM · Report this
KittenKoder 158
@156 That is a good point, however it's still segregating "classes" or "types" of people. I really don't like segregation in even the most innocent of ways. Been segregated too much in my life to not fear it, and my family as a whole has experienced the effects of a few generations back.

@157 Clarification accepted, my wording was a bit wrong, you are correct that I should have said it's wrong to make it illegal instead of the wording I chose. My bad.
Posted by KittenKoder http://digitalnoisegraffiti.com/ on October 28, 2011 at 12:50 AM · Report this
venomlash 159
@158: How is it segregating anything? All it does is acknowledge that there are certain characteristics which differ between some people. A law establishing sexual orientation as a protected category does not specifically mention gay or straight people, but rather sexual orientation itself.
For fuck sake, know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
Posted by venomlash on October 28, 2011 at 10:32 AM · Report this
162
@121: I can't believe you tried to paraphrase Eliot. To compare the Gunpowder Plot to the left-wing bringing down right-wing America on a forum under an article discussing how a certain bigot doesn't want parents to let gays treat their children in hospitals is completely baffling to me.

Let me give you a quote to let you know that the right will destroy itself (and maybe from a source you won't call "a bad poet"):

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life."
-- Theodore Roosevelt

p.s. I rarely check back on forums once I've read 160 comments, had a good chuckle at all the wingnuts (I'm looking at you SeattleDouche), and thanked my lucky stars that I'm a spiritual, straight, married gal who lives in a place that allows gays to be married. So that all my gay friends can enjoy all the things I do - namely the right to love and be loved without being prosecuted.
Posted by smashleigh on November 9, 2011 at 7:40 PM · Report this

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