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News & ArtsThursday, November 3, 2011
Books Two Dick Moves from Amazon
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 3:07 PM
Dick Move One: Amazon gave away a self-published author's e-book for free by accident. They accidentally gave it away 6,116 times. Are they going to compensate the author for accidentally giving his book away for free? Probably not:
...Amazon refused to pay royalties on any of the copies it gave away for free. Crawford started a little social media campaign, his story started getting picked up and yesterday, almost a month after the saga began, a Kindle Direct Publishing rep called Crawford and told him that while he won’t be getting any money, Amazon will “research the entire chain of events and will get back to you in a day or two.”
Dick Move Two: Amazon Flow is a new app that allows you to scan any product barcode at a brick and mortar store and the app replies "with Amazon's price, reviews and 'multimedia content'." People have been doing this at bookstores for ages, but the fact that Amazon is now openly endorsing this kind of behavior—allowing customers to visit local businesses (businesses that, I might add, pay sales and other taxes into the local economy) and do their browsing there before buying the product online—is a different level of douchery. It's about as close as Amazon can legally come to stealing from small businesses, taking advantage of their high overhead by treating them as product showrooms without giving them a cent of subsidy.
1
This is surely one of the reasons why Elliot Bay (for example) has its own barcode system and sticks its barcodes over the ones printed on books.
3
Amazon should claw back all the examples of Crawford's books that they gave away (or everything after chapter 3...) At least they'd get money (and royalties for Crawford) from anyone who liked the book and hadn't finished it yet.
4
I agree with "Dick Move One" but "Dick Move Two" is a bit of a stretch. Consumers have been comparative shopping for years, before Amazon.com and before the internets. The advent of barcode scanning technology and smartphones makes easier for people to do this in real-time but suggesting that people will only be using this technology in small businesses and that Amazon is somehow legally stealing from business is piffle. PS I have been able to do this for at least a year with Amazon.com’s standard shopping app.
5
@4, comparison-shopping Amazon while you are standing in the brick and mortar store is ABSOLUTELY a dick move no matter what kind of store you're in. If I ran a shop and saw you doing that I'd chase you out of my store with a crowbar.
Think about what you're doing. Think about what your neighborhood will look like without any shops in it.
Think about what you're doing. Think about what your neighborhood will look like without any shops in it.
8
Are you kidding @ Paul and fnarf?
I'm a music collector, and I go to bricks and mortar places all the time. (Um, it's a prerequisite of any visit to a new city to identify and visit all the used classical shops.)
Half the fun is finding something you didn't know existed, or something that you'd been looking for but hadn't really needed enough to buy online. As soon as I see something that's rare or that I want right now in a store, I pull up amazon on my iPhone and check their used price against the stores. Many, many times the store has a lower price -- either because they have a fixed price on used items, or because they don't bother to check.
Just last week I got four rare Soviet CDs for $10 each, and each are going on amazon for more than $25. Extra happiness at a deal like that.
I'm a music collector, and I go to bricks and mortar places all the time. (Um, it's a prerequisite of any visit to a new city to identify and visit all the used classical shops.)
Half the fun is finding something you didn't know existed, or something that you'd been looking for but hadn't really needed enough to buy online. As soon as I see something that's rare or that I want right now in a store, I pull up amazon on my iPhone and check their used price against the stores. Many, many times the store has a lower price -- either because they have a fixed price on used items, or because they don't bother to check.
Just last week I got four rare Soviet CDs for $10 each, and each are going on amazon for more than $25. Extra happiness at a deal like that.
9
@7 I'd enjoy that, actually.
Unlike Fnarf, I actually know how to use crowbars, and I'm not talking the baby ones you are thinking of, but the 2 meter long ones we used to use to build bridges and plant explosives with (p.s. don't use the explosives until after you use the crowbar, if you don't want to go boom).
Unlike Fnarf, I actually know how to use crowbars, and I'm not talking the baby ones you are thinking of, but the 2 meter long ones we used to use to build bridges and plant explosives with (p.s. don't use the explosives until after you use the crowbar, if you don't want to go boom).
10
Uhh.. I comparison shop Amazon in brick and mortar stores all the time, TO DECIDE WHAT TO BUY IN THE BRICK AND MORTAR STORE! Sorry but I find the Amazon reviews to be a great help when trying to decide which, of similar, products to buy. Sometimes Amazon is a little cheaper, but the price difference is rarely enough to make me reconsider buying the product, in the store, RIGHT NOW.
When local stores start having little screens where you can read consumer-provided reviews, let me know!
When local stores start having little screens where you can read consumer-provided reviews, let me know!
11
Given the number of brick and mortar stores that boast that they will 'beat any price', I can't get too worked up. Competition in business is a life-and-death struggle, always has been, always will be. They're just upset that they can't win the competition.
12
Hmmm. I actually have done Dick Move Two in reverse. I've been browsing at Powell's in Portland, and indecisive about whether or not to buy a book. I've looked it up on amazon on a smart phone to see what the reviews were like... and then bought the book at Powell's. So I wasn't really price shopping; I was just using amazon reviews to help me decide if I wanted to read the book or not.
13
They should take advantage of amazon on that. Put up terminals in the store where you can see the reviews and media content. Prices are not all that different between the two and you can walk out with the book right then at the store. Plus as 11 says many will match the price anyway.
Hell they could run their used book section right through Amazon Market place with the books all stored in the back and simply retrieve them for people who want to buy them after pursuing the selection on the terminal.
Hell they could run their used book section right through Amazon Market place with the books all stored in the back and simply retrieve them for people who want to buy them after pursuing the selection on the terminal.
14
@ 5, STFU. As if you would chase anyone with anything other than your ponderous internet bloviating.
I choose to spread my money around, I shop on Amazon.com (mostly for consumer electronics, please point me to a local/small Seattle retailer of such products and I would happily check them out), local small businesses and large brick and mortar retailers.
I do use Amazon.com's app at Elliot Bay to look up reviews of books before buying them from Elliot Bay.
My neighborhood is Downtown Seattle which is chock full of large retailers, small retailers and everything in between, I'll make sure to offer to buy you a drink when I wake-up and find it bereft of brick and mortar shops.
I choose to spread my money around, I shop on Amazon.com (mostly for consumer electronics, please point me to a local/small Seattle retailer of such products and I would happily check them out), local small businesses and large brick and mortar retailers.
I do use Amazon.com's app at Elliot Bay to look up reviews of books before buying them from Elliot Bay.
My neighborhood is Downtown Seattle which is chock full of large retailers, small retailers and everything in between, I'll make sure to offer to buy you a drink when I wake-up and find it bereft of brick and mortar shops.
15
Seperate, genius, non-dick move:
----------------
Dear Customers,
Today we're announcing a new benefit for Kindle owners with an Amazon Prime membership: the Kindle Owners’ Lending Library.
Kindle owners can now choose from thousands of books to borrow for free, including over 100 current and former New York Times Bestsellers — as frequently as a book a month, with no due dates. No other e-reader or ebook store offers such a service.
The Kindle Owners’ Lending Library features a wide array of popular titles, including Water for Elephants, Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game, and Fast Food Nation – plus award-winning novels such as The Finkler Question, motivational books like The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, biographies and memoirs including Kitchen Confidential, and Pulitzer Prize-winning books like Guns, Germs, and Steel.
We’re adding the Kindle Owners’ Lending Library to Prime membership at no extra cost — Amazon Prime remains just $79 a year, which gives you free two-day shipping on millions of products, plus unlimited instant streaming of almost 13,000 movies and TV shows.
If you’re a Kindle owner with Prime, you can start borrowing books today. If you don’t yet have a Kindle, our all-new Kindle family is available from just $79.
----------------
So they make $79 a year on their customers (the price of Prime), give them an incentive to buy more Amazon stuff (free shipping), and get an e-reader in their hands ready for when they want to read a book not in the 100-book library. Genius.
----------------
Dear Customers,
Today we're announcing a new benefit for Kindle owners with an Amazon Prime membership: the Kindle Owners’ Lending Library.
Kindle owners can now choose from thousands of books to borrow for free, including over 100 current and former New York Times Bestsellers — as frequently as a book a month, with no due dates. No other e-reader or ebook store offers such a service.
The Kindle Owners’ Lending Library features a wide array of popular titles, including Water for Elephants, Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game, and Fast Food Nation – plus award-winning novels such as The Finkler Question, motivational books like The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, biographies and memoirs including Kitchen Confidential, and Pulitzer Prize-winning books like Guns, Germs, and Steel.
We’re adding the Kindle Owners’ Lending Library to Prime membership at no extra cost — Amazon Prime remains just $79 a year, which gives you free two-day shipping on millions of products, plus unlimited instant streaming of almost 13,000 movies and TV shows.
If you’re a Kindle owner with Prime, you can start borrowing books today. If you don’t yet have a Kindle, our all-new Kindle family is available from just $79.
----------------
So they make $79 a year on their customers (the price of Prime), give them an incentive to buy more Amazon stuff (free shipping), and get an e-reader in their hands ready for when they want to read a book not in the 100-book library. Genius.
16
Amazon's other app has always had similar functionality, though it was based on taking a photo of the object rather than its barcode. You could almost imagine that reading the reviews in-store would just prompt an in-store purchase, rather than buying online, paying shipping, and waiting for it to arrive.
17
Here's a dilemma.
Where I live (Arizona), there are two brick-and-mortar stores. One of them is a locally-owned used bookshop. It's stupid, in a place like that, to comparison shop, since your'e pretty much guaranteed to always find the better deal right there in the store.
The other store is a Hastings, which is a chain owned out of Texas, and which is run by a bunch of right-wing wackaloons. I've checked for Kindle titles more than once while there, and sometimes make purchase decisions while right there in the store - feeding the Amazon demon, yes, but sucking funds away from a company that aggressively promotes drooling fucktards like Beck and Coulter on their endcaps.
So does that qualify as a dick move, too? Or is overgeneralization without any trace of nuance the more dickish behavior?
Where I live (Arizona), there are two brick-and-mortar stores. One of them is a locally-owned used bookshop. It's stupid, in a place like that, to comparison shop, since your'e pretty much guaranteed to always find the better deal right there in the store.
The other store is a Hastings, which is a chain owned out of Texas, and which is run by a bunch of right-wing wackaloons. I've checked for Kindle titles more than once while there, and sometimes make purchase decisions while right there in the store - feeding the Amazon demon, yes, but sucking funds away from a company that aggressively promotes drooling fucktards like Beck and Coulter on their endcaps.
So does that qualify as a dick move, too? Or is overgeneralization without any trace of nuance the more dickish behavior?
19
I've seen much use of this app by people in thrift stores who I assume are either used bookstore owner/employees or Amazon sellers themselves, checking the market before they spec.
You don't need Amazon to have affiliated digital kiosks linking independent bookstores. I'd rather see a Powell's/Strand brand.
You don't need Amazon to have affiliated digital kiosks linking independent bookstores. I'd rather see a Powell's/Strand brand.
20
@13 nails it. Paul and Fnarf are being hysterical here. If your business model relies on the customer being uninformed then this century is going to kill you (And you don't just have to beat Amazon on price). Oh, and the scanning feature has been around for at least a couple of years ... You guys just discovered it?!
21
But there's zero chance the price will be lower at Elliott Bay. Why even go there in the first place?
I don't get the tax thing. I live in Washington and pay taxes all the time at Amazon. And I have lots of friends and neighbors who work for Amazon.
Yr whining up the wrong tree.
I don't get the tax thing. I live in Washington and pay taxes all the time at Amazon. And I have lots of friends and neighbors who work for Amazon.
Yr whining up the wrong tree.
22
Yeah, the e-book thing is a 100% dick move.
The shopping app--yes and no. Having instant access to the awesome force of Amazon reviews (they really are usually pretty good) when shopping for appliances and such or any comparable products that are worth let's say $100+ is pretty handy. I've read Amazon reviews right in a Sears or Best Buy before just for that.
Using it to undercut mom & pop shops is a dick move, however.
The shopping app--yes and no. Having instant access to the awesome force of Amazon reviews (they really are usually pretty good) when shopping for appliances and such or any comparable products that are worth let's say $100+ is pretty handy. I've read Amazon reviews right in a Sears or Best Buy before just for that.
Using it to undercut mom & pop shops is a dick move, however.
23
@21 Ditto New York on the taxes. Amazon collects here, too. Only way around it is to buy from an out-of-state merchant on Amazon's Marketplace. Then, they don't collect.
24
@ 21 & 23 Amazon.com does collect state income taxes in states where they have offices, like Washington and I assume New York. They do not however collect state income taxes in all states, like California, and that is a legitimate complaint.
Complaining of unfair competition due to this app is not.
Complaining of unfair competition due to this app is not.
25
If apple did dick move number two, I feel that Paul would be all about it.
Dude app developers have been doing this since app development came to be. Also, have you thought of the following two things?:
1. Brick and mortar prices could be cheaper.
2. Thousands of brick and mortar stores sell online ON AMAZON.
Dude app developers have been doing this since app development came to be. Also, have you thought of the following two things?:
1. Brick and mortar prices could be cheaper.
2. Thousands of brick and mortar stores sell online ON AMAZON.
26
@24 Nobody pays taxes they don't have to. That problem has to do with the laws in the States and at the federal level and could be fixed by them.
27
Yep - I've used Amazon's scanning app at Elliott Bay for reviews or info and never once bought online instead. Please don't judge me if you see me on my phone.
28
@24 (21, 23, et al):
However, Dick Move #3 for today is that Amazon is actually getting INTO the tax collecting business (for fun & profit--mostly for the profit) now:
However, Dick Move #3 for today is that Amazon is actually getting INTO the tax collecting business (for fun & profit--mostly for the profit) now:
Amazon now sees a profit in becoming tax collector
Amazon.com for years has fought state efforts to force it to collect sales taxes from its customers. Now, instead of battling the tax man, the company is looking to profit — by hiring itself out as an Internet tax collector.
In an abrupt about-face, the company is now offering to handle sales-tax chores for merchants who sell products through its site for a fee equivalent to 2.9 percent of the taxes collected.
[More]
29
@20 said it perfectly. The uninformed customer no longer exists (at least not for urban bookstores).
I actually think @13 has the right observation but precisely the wrong response. I shop at local bookstores to support local businesses, but also because it's nice to be able to browse the shelves, read a sample page or two, etc.
Put all the books behind the counter, and now what's the point of going into a store at all?
For bookstores to succeed, they have to offer what Amazon can't. That means no waiting for shipping, and it means a pleasant browsing experience.
I actually think @13 has the right observation but precisely the wrong response. I shop at local bookstores to support local businesses, but also because it's nice to be able to browse the shelves, read a sample page or two, etc.
Put all the books behind the counter, and now what's the point of going into a store at all?
For bookstores to succeed, they have to offer what Amazon can't. That means no waiting for shipping, and it means a pleasant browsing experience.
30
For those who think the comparison-shopping is wrong, I ask again: is it wrong to do it in places like Target and Walmart?
Also, is it okay to undercut a mom & pop store if mom & pop are assholes?
Also, is it okay to undercut a mom & pop store if mom & pop are assholes?
31
First dick move IS a dick move and is probably the bad decision of a middle manager who will most likely be reprimanded or fired, if the author files a lawsuit. It will also probably result in a payment.
Second dick move in in fact NOT a dick move and is useful and rad, because as a consumer, I'd like to have a not fucking huge markup, thanks. It's called a free market economy. Evolve or die.
Second dick move in in fact NOT a dick move and is useful and rad, because as a consumer, I'd like to have a not fucking huge markup, thanks. It's called a free market economy. Evolve or die.
32
I'll agree on dick move #2 if Paul will agree that bookstores are pulling major dick moves by putting up signage indicating that they have books that people can just go buy without waiting for Amazon to ship them. It's pretty unfair to post signs that say "bookstore", when a customer who might be planning to order from Amazon could see it and think "you know what, I could just stop in there and grab it right now."
Oh, wait, it's Constant. The guy who starts with Amazon news and works backwards to come up with a rationale for why it's evil. Amazon could provide free health care for the entire U.S., and this guy would find a way to spin it as a dick move.
Oh, wait, it's Constant. The guy who starts with Amazon news and works backwards to come up with a rationale for why it's evil. Amazon could provide free health care for the entire U.S., and this guy would find a way to spin it as a dick move.
33
So I'm already at the store, and the item is in my hot little impatient consumer hands. I'm going to use that app to get reviews and more info. Unless it's outrageously more expensive (and shipping eats up a lot of savings), I'll go for the immediate gratification every time.
34
@30 For those who think the comparison-shopping is wrong, I ask again: is it wrong to do it in places like Target and Walmart?
For me it's not so much a morality question, just a matter of looking at long-term benefits versus short-term. Do I want the store to remain in business? Does it provide a good service for me? With Elliott Bay, for example, it does provide me with a lot I can't get online, like community building, physical browsing, author events, etc. I'm not going to give my money to a Walmart, for example, because I personally don't care if they stay in business or not.
You vote with your dollars, vote for who you want to survive.
For me it's not so much a morality question, just a matter of looking at long-term benefits versus short-term. Do I want the store to remain in business? Does it provide a good service for me? With Elliott Bay, for example, it does provide me with a lot I can't get online, like community building, physical browsing, author events, etc. I'm not going to give my money to a Walmart, for example, because I personally don't care if they stay in business or not.
You vote with your dollars, vote for who you want to survive.
35
I just loaded this app onto my ipad, and started scanning things at home. For the first time ever, I want to get an iphone.
Among other things, I found out that the pair of pants I bought today at a brick-and-mortar were cheaper there than at Amazon.
And yes, I'd love to use this when I'm scanning books at the Goodwill.
Among other things, I found out that the pair of pants I bought today at a brick-and-mortar were cheaper there than at Amazon.
And yes, I'd love to use this when I'm scanning books at the Goodwill.
36
It is a very useful tool for someone who wants to buy something to scan something at a store and find a place to get it at a better price. What do you propose, a pop up that educates people on how this is bad for local businesses? Some sort of disclaimer? You can't put the genie back in the bottle, here.
37
@34, that makes perfect sense. It's not a dick move to provide the app, just depends on how you use it.
38
Amazon Flow sounds like the SNL "Price Is Right" stamp gun.
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75egun.p…
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75egun.p…
39
I avoid brick-and-mortar shops. Not structurally reliable. They'll collapse like pancakes when The Big One hits. Luckily, Amazon delivers to my bunker.
40
Both dick moves, which is why I feel no qualms about reading the first few pages of a book on Amazon before deciding if I want to order it (for a higher price, but no shipping fees) from my local bookstore. I got Mindy Kaling's book a week early by doing just that.
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