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News & ArtsMonday, January 9, 2012
Homo Hutcherson Cancels on Gay Marriage Debate
Posted by Dominic Holden on Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 1:42 PM
Pastor Ken Hutcherson called a minute ago. The Antioch Bible Church pastor and gay marriage opponent says Town Hall (seating capacity 850) is not a large enough venue for the debate on January 18. Unless the event is moved from Town Hall to the Meydenbauer Convention Center in Bellevue, Hutcherson would cancel. That venue costs $10,000 and, Hutcherson said, we'd likely have to charge admission to cover the cost of the new venue. Hutcherson adds that Stephen Pidgeon, an attorney and the other anti-gay-marriage debater, is also pulling out due to concerns about the size of the venue.
Over 800 people already have tickets, Town Hall has booked the great hall, Dave Ross has agreed to moderate, and the Seattle Channel is planning to live-stream the debate—so even those without tickets will be able to watch and listen. Hutcherson and assistant Rachael Whaley were unequivocal last week that they were committed to participating at Town Hall. "Left you a message to say Steve Pidgeon is in," Whaley wrote in an email last Thursday afternoon. "So it will be Pidgeon and Hutcherson."
We can't move to a new location on such short notice.
So now we need to find replacements for Hutcherson and Pidgeon. Which isn't going to be easy: No one wants to argue the anti-side, it seems, and people working with state senators say none of them will participate. I got hard "no"s last week from the most outspoken anti-gay senators, Val Stevens and Dan Swecker.
We're putting out calls left and right—pastors, lawmakers, activists, everyone—trying to get someone willing to stand in front of an audience and explain why they believe two people of the same gender shouldn't get married. The event is going be moderated by KIRO's Dave Ross, so it'll be all fair and square.
7
I'll do it. I'm great at sourcing and referencing key arguments!
Or something.
Barring that, Senator Haugen?
Or something.
Barring that, Senator Haugen?
9
Have you tried Cary Condotta? He seems to be just the right amount of crazy to agree to the debate.
10
I TOTALLY think Dan should do it #1!!!
But the fact they bailed shows how very weak their argument against allowing same sex marriage really is.
But the fact they bailed shows how very weak their argument against allowing same sex marriage really is.
12
Of course they cancelled. Arguing against marriage equality in downtown Seattle? They’re scared. They’ll be outnumbered. Tickets are sold out, which means they can’t pack the audience with trucked-in supporters. If it were in Bellevue, they could e-mail all the area’s mega-churches and get them to fill the auditorium.
14
What about that "SeattleBlues" character?
He thinks he's such hot shit, here's his big chance.
There's that asshat anonymous troll, too...why doesn't he "man-up"??
He thinks he's such hot shit, here's his big chance.
There's that asshat anonymous troll, too...why doesn't he "man-up"??
15
I still don't think you should validate Hutcherson with having him on a debate anyway. The guy is mentally & physically ill. This is a power play by him. Fuck that guy.
19
I say ditch the debate and turn the whole thing into a roast of Ken Hutcherson, complete with a Ken Hutcherson-shaped pinata that is, of course, full of shit.
20
Get Andrew Sullivan. That old Oxford thing will kick right in, and any good debater SHOULD be able to argue both sides of anything, since whatever you personally believe you have to articulate your opponents' arguments to defeat them.
21
By January 18th, Rich Santorum should be available - coupled with - oh, God, you would need a huger venue - Marcus Bachmann!!!
22
How do you commit to a debate in a venue without first checking out the size of the venue? Was the venue booked before the debaters were?
23
Hutcherson & Pidgeon! What utter fucking chickenshits! Jesus wouldn't slink away from a chance to witness to 850 sinners. Your behavior is not exactly strong in the Lord, Ken & Stephen!
26
@22) The location, size of the venue, first-come-first-served online tickets, and all the details were agreed upon first.
28
I'm thinking of a word to describe Hutcherson.
Starts with a C. Ends with what Robin was to Bruce Wayne.
C.ward ...
Starts with a C. Ends with what Robin was to Bruce Wayne.
C.ward ...
29
Come on! Where's the can-do attitued? It'd be worth it to hit up every wealthy, homo-friendly benefactor with a checkbook designated for "giving" just to show up with a Meydenbauer contract (or better yet, get KeyArena or the Friggin' Tacoma Dome, if they want a big venue). Put it off a week or two if you have to, but corner those chickenshits. I'll donate.
31
@ 11, SB would be beholden to rules like "staying on topic" and "using the time allotted," which would be troublesome for him, judging from his SLOG comments indicate. God only knows how he'd handle having his ignorance dissected in a setting where he can't just run away.
33
I'm willing to take the side that civil marriage should be unestablished for everyone, both same-sex and opposite-sex.
34
Gotta say I'm not surprised and totally agree with @12; Hutch & Pidgeon clearly must have thought they'd be spewing their hate to a handful of heathens, and when the place "sold out" before they could even get their own congregants to sign up for tickets, they knew they'd be appearing in front of a largely hostile audience that wouldn't simply swallow their bigoted chum hook, line and sinker.
And of course, they also know there's no way "The Stranger" is going to fork out $10K OR make people pay to see the debate, especially in an Eastside venue where the homophobes will have a better chance of packing the house, so they turned their yellow tails and ran.
So much for the power of their convictions, and good riddance sez I...
And of course, they also know there's no way "The Stranger" is going to fork out $10K OR make people pay to see the debate, especially in an Eastside venue where the homophobes will have a better chance of packing the house, so they turned their yellow tails and ran.
So much for the power of their convictions, and good riddance sez I...
35
Remember when C.R. Douglas backed out and nobody showed up on the pro-tunnel side for the Town Hall Tunnel Debate? But you all showed up and approved each other anyway? We could do that for this one, nobler cause and all.
Seattle could have its first livestreamed circle jerk of 2012 come January 18. If we all pull together we can make it happen.
Seattle could have its first livestreamed circle jerk of 2012 come January 18. If we all pull together we can make it happen.
36
What pussies. Just because Dan and Laurie were going to shred their logic, tear them to bits and laugh over the curled-up pieces in front of an audience is no reason for them to pull out like that.
Not a big enough venue? How small is this "internet" thing, anyway?
Not a big enough venue? How small is this "internet" thing, anyway?
37
Not enough of "their" people got tickets. That's the problem. They want an advantage with the audience, and they didn't get it.
38
First Lutheran Church of West Seattle - Pastor Ron Marshall, I think. He was one of the folks not too excited about letting gay pastors with committed relationships serve in the Lutheran church. If he can't do it, I'm certain he'll have people to refer you to.
39
The top 10 anti-same-sex marriage arguments are easy to present no matter which side you're on. Here we go, kids!
1. It will destroy humanity! Yup! The Pope recently said so and he must know!
2. It will destroy marriage! Because, you see (ahem...) it will degrade the essence and sacredness of marriage. Why and how? Because, erm... It goes against Nature and natural law. Now, no more questions about natural law because, really, ew! butt-sex "is icky", to quote National Organization for Marriage spokesperson Dr. J. Morse. And no animals ever do it and don't confuse us with documented scientific observations, please!
3. Marriage is God-ordained and we need the government out of the marriage business! So no more courthouse-issued wedding licenses and no more federal benefits or retirement benefits for anyone thank you very kindly!
4. The family is holy and the cornerstone of society. Gay families are icky and actually have never existed. Never in history, nope. No wayyyyy!
5. Gay people don't really want marriage. So, please ignore the worldwide movement.
6. Gay people don't really exist and if they do, in far fewer numbers than they claim. So, will they please just shut up so we can all move on to something else?
7. We don't have to provide any evidence to the public or to the courts to support our claims because we don't need to! Such were the words of Prop8 lawyer Charles Cooper spoken in reply to a slack-jaw judge's request for proof.
8. If same-sex marriage becomes legal, our children will learn marriage and love are normal. Such knowledge would harm their innocent souls.
9. If same-sex marriage becomes legal, our children might think we're bigots. That would be... just too horrible. Therefore, we must ban it by all means, even by constitutional amendment.
10. If same-sex marriage becomes legal, heterosexuals will stop being attracted to each other and will stop making babies and the world will be doomed. Dooooomed! Do you hear me, doooooomed!
And there you have it in a nutshell. All the rational arguments against same-sex marriage are... irrational.
More...
1. It will destroy humanity! Yup! The Pope recently said so and he must know!
2. It will destroy marriage! Because, you see (ahem...) it will degrade the essence and sacredness of marriage. Why and how? Because, erm... It goes against Nature and natural law. Now, no more questions about natural law because, really, ew! butt-sex "is icky", to quote National Organization for Marriage spokesperson Dr. J. Morse. And no animals ever do it and don't confuse us with documented scientific observations, please!
3. Marriage is God-ordained and we need the government out of the marriage business! So no more courthouse-issued wedding licenses and no more federal benefits or retirement benefits for anyone thank you very kindly!
4. The family is holy and the cornerstone of society. Gay families are icky and actually have never existed. Never in history, nope. No wayyyyy!
5. Gay people don't really want marriage. So, please ignore the worldwide movement.
6. Gay people don't really exist and if they do, in far fewer numbers than they claim. So, will they please just shut up so we can all move on to something else?
7. We don't have to provide any evidence to the public or to the courts to support our claims because we don't need to! Such were the words of Prop8 lawyer Charles Cooper spoken in reply to a slack-jaw judge's request for proof.
8. If same-sex marriage becomes legal, our children will learn marriage and love are normal. Such knowledge would harm their innocent souls.
9. If same-sex marriage becomes legal, our children might think we're bigots. That would be... just too horrible. Therefore, we must ban it by all means, even by constitutional amendment.
10. If same-sex marriage becomes legal, heterosexuals will stop being attracted to each other and will stop making babies and the world will be doomed. Dooooomed! Do you hear me, doooooomed!
And there you have it in a nutshell. All the rational arguments against same-sex marriage are... irrational.
44
What about that megachurch pastor who just put out a sex book? He's pretty homophobic in his marital views.
45
I was surprised when you invited Hutcherson in the first place. Stability doesn't seem to be his forte. They are probably trying to burn you guys or are just concerned about a vocal and majority unfriendly audience. Especially if this is going down with cameras.
I really think the devil's advocate idea is a good one. Maybe you can find an impartial lawyer type or someone in the pro-side to give it their all in opposition to gay marriage.
True dialectic debate is almost a lost art. No one should 'win' at a forum like this one. The case for each side should be made, questioned and intelligently discussed.
I really think the devil's advocate idea is a good one. Maybe you can find an impartial lawyer type or someone in the pro-side to give it their all in opposition to gay marriage.
True dialectic debate is almost a lost art. No one should 'win' at a forum like this one. The case for each side should be made, questioned and intelligently discussed.
47
Hutch is such a fraud. If I had 10K laying around, I'd step forward and reserve the Meydebauer Center just to see him squirm. He just pulled that stunt to get out of it. Not even the Eastside - aside from Teh Jesus People - is all that worked up about gay marriage.
48
What about Bob Struble from the Knights of Columbus. He always likes going on TV to hate the gays. He's fucking crazy too! http://www.linkedin.com/in/struble98337
49
Ohhh, I know. We can get our esteemed attorney general to do it. He's a lawyer, he is opposed to equal rights, and he is trying to be our governor. Trifecta.
51
@19 Shit would be smelly and cleanup would be unpleasant. I think it should be filled with white feathers.
54
I jokingly posted this three days ago on the original thread:
"Is it true that if Ken Hutcherson doesn't show up that Clay Jenkinson will portray him?"
"Is it true that if Ken Hutcherson doesn't show up that Clay Jenkinson will portray him?"
55
Even if they reserved the Meydenbauer for the event, what's to keep them from pulling the same stunt again, just to gouge Dan and the rest of The Stranger for $10k?
56
Steve Pigeon just submitted an initiative today that "redefines the definition of marriage as being between one man and one woman."
http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiati…
http://www.sos.wa.gov/elections/initiati…
57
attorney@stephenpidgeon.com
http://www.abchurch.org/about-us/staff/1…
(send email from this page)
Let 'em have it.
http://www.abchurch.org/about-us/staff/1…
(send email from this page)
Let 'em have it.
58
Neither pastors Mark Driscoll or Tim Gaydos from Mars Hill are willing to participate. Spoke to their people last week.
60
Just a thought... How big is that piece of shit church of Hutch's? If it's more than 850 seats, and he would agree to the already-agreed-upon parameters and to honor the outstanding tickets, and pay for the internet hook-up, why not have it there?
Oh, and get it in writing this time.
Oh, and get it in writing this time.
61
@33, that's not a "side," it's a bottom. floor. sub-basement. Not to mention a redistribution of wealth to contract lawyers.
Gus @35, I know you're pretty happy about that last line already, so I'll just sneak in a quick stroke while the house lights are down.
Gus @35, I know you're pretty happy about that last line already, so I'll just sneak in a quick stroke while the house lights are down.
62
Yeah, Driscoll came to my mind as well, but he's really more interested in screaming at people within the church rather than outside.
63
There has to be some articulate right-wing college professor or journalist whose willing to argue the other side to promote his latest book or whatever. Where's Ann Coulter when you need her?
64
What about Gallagher?! He's conservative as shit, plus after the debates he can smash a bunch of fruit with a sledgehammer! What homohating pastor would do that?! Plus, he would definitely do it for way less than 10,000$.
65
Goddamn queer bullies scaring away an honest debate about their freak-ass penis-on-penis marriages!
Gay Mafiosos win again!
Save us Ken! The Homo Army marches on!
I love me much Hutch.
Gay Mafiosos win again!
Save us Ken! The Homo Army marches on!
I love me much Hutch.
67
Chickenshiiiiiiit!
We gotta get Loveschild up in this bitch. I'd nominate Alleged instead but I'm pretty sure his entire point and counterpoint addresses would just be lengthy streams of racial slurs interspersed with semi-intelligible screeching about "anal health" and "the gay disease."
We gotta get Loveschild up in this bitch. I'd nominate Alleged instead but I'm pretty sure his entire point and counterpoint addresses would just be lengthy streams of racial slurs interspersed with semi-intelligible screeching about "anal health" and "the gay disease."
70
I sent a strongly worded email to Antioch. And I second @50's suggestion. Get the 'new christian' who doesn't hate the gays, just thinks they sin like the rest of us. They represent Christians in this town better than anyone.
73
I think it was the live slogging that spooked KH. He realized that his biggoted words would be immortalized in a less than positive light, where he couldn't control the environment. So he had to either create a more supportive audience, or run away.
74
This reminds me of when Christopher Hitchens spoke at Town Hall, and he could not find anyone local to debate.
75
McKenna! McKenna! McKenna! It's an issue currently facing the state he's running to be governor of, and he's a successful attorney who shouldn't be afraid to defend his stance. Of course, that's a "should", and he'll back out with some "pre-existing schedule conflict" so he's not on the record against an issue most of the state he wants to run agrees with, but it'd make me honestly respect the guy if he did.
78
I actually find it encouraging that none of the bigots want to go on record trying to defend homophobia. It shows that the tide truly is turning, and they know they are wrong and in the minority.
82
#42 said: Publicly invite Santorum to represent their side, in a grudge match of sorts.
Totally. Goad him. If Santorum can't stand up to Dan Savage, how is he going to stand up to Russia?
(Get Babeland to donate a gift basket to him if he shows up and doesn't walk out before the debate ends.)
Totally. Goad him. If Santorum can't stand up to Dan Savage, how is he going to stand up to Russia?
(Get Babeland to donate a gift basket to him if he shows up and doesn't walk out before the debate ends.)
84
Get that goofy guy, Larry Stickney, to come do it. He's the Faith and Freedom Network guy. Or maybe Joseph Backholm, from the Family Policy Institute?
85
I think it would have been great if he had managed to pack the venue with his supporters, since It's just possible that a few of them would be persuaded by the good guys, whose arguments they probably haven't heard before. At the very least they'd be forced to confront the fact that their pastor is an idiot who can't debate a ham sandwich.
87
Darn. I was going to be sure there was a sea of pink I'm Loved By PFLAG stickers on the audience.
88
Dan, offer to take down spreadingsantorum.com, if he'll come do the debate. He'd have a very hard time refusing.
90
Darn I was going to be sure there was a sea of pink I'm Loved by PFLAG stickers on those in the audience.
91
So now it's up to Hutcherson to secure the better venue -- being at the original venue was agreed upon, then later wasn't acceptable. That's fine, but it's on him to find a new place and make it happen.
If he's unwilling to do that, then yes, it begins to look like fear and the cheap shot of possibly costing the Stranger some dough.
If that in fact is the case, then we need to keep pressing our case with the best messages we have.
If he's unwilling to do that, then yes, it begins to look like fear and the cheap shot of possibly costing the Stranger some dough.
If that in fact is the case, then we need to keep pressing our case with the best messages we have.
92
Maybe you could get Wamu Theater to host it? They are quasi publically owned, and maybe they would give you a discount for something that will be such a huge public issue?
93
Really Dominic? Did you not try to find a bigger venue and fail? Then Hutch found one that you refused. Did he not tell you money would not be an issue, he would pay for it? Your readers are human beings and deserve the truth.
95
Wait...isn't this the same guy who was a key organizer of the "May Day for Marriage" rally at Safeco Field in 2004? He's fine with expressing his views in front of tens of thousands of people who agree with him, just not in front of 850 people who might not.
What a cowardly concession.
What a cowardly concession.
96
I was in the room during the speaker phone conversation with Hutfch/Dominic today. Dominic knows this is true, ask him.
97
"No one wants to argue the anti-side, it seems, and people working with state senators say none of them will participate." Don't forget that you're asking people to join on short notice a debate in which the moderator, time, location, and other key details have already been arranged.
101
Nobody reads comment 101, but it's amazing that any intelligent person didn't assume that hutcherson would bag it.
105
@96, even if he did want to pay for it... It is in Bellevue, not Seattle. Who would want to go all the way out there for an event?
106
@63: She'll come when called, but you have to set out the candles, draw the pentagram, place the sacrifice in said pentagram, then chant her true name three times. All in all, a lot of work just to be in the presence of someone who is pretty unpleasant all the time.
107
@96 even if brain damaged Hutch did offer to pay for it (re-cooping his costs in charging tickets is ridiculous) he agreed to the debate AND the venue beforehand. Backing out now like this when he couldn't get his way just reeks of cowardice.
108
Oh Pastor Hutch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2…
Here's your lifetime supply of Rice-a-Roni, The San Francisco Treat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ytCEuuW2…
Here's your lifetime supply of Rice-a-Roni, The San Francisco Treat.
109
Have you tried calling the Santorum campaign? He's generally willing to stand in front of crowds to condemn gay marriage. Doing this would show that he's got a pair of huge brass balls which is good for a candidate. Maybe you could offer that if he does this debate you would take down www.spreadingsantorum.com . That might be enough incentive for him and crushing him in a debate on gay marriage would be even more valuable at this point in the campaign than continuing the site.
110
I'm sure "Hutch" would love to hear about our disappointment. You can e-mail him at Antioch Bible Church. Five years ago at Mt. Si he wouldn't answer my question in an assembly; here he is - still backing down every chance he can. Couldn't pack the venue, so now he has to withdraw. I'm still waiting, Hutch. Kit
112
@93, meet @91. Venue was agreed upon.
But, hey, "Let's get real," huh? Bellevue is Hutcherson's stomping ground, right below Capitol Hill is not. He wants to pack the crowd w/ "his" audience. He thought he could w/ the original venue, but, let's face it, the guy isn't that bright. When he discovered how incompetent he had handled things, he called it off.
If he offered to pay for the venue, then why did he suggest they charge admission? Convenient that you left that part out. He wants to charge admission because he thinks that people who want those who love each other to benefit fully & equally from the laws of this country don't have that much money. He thought the admission fee would be a barrier. Or he's just a cheapskate bastard. Perhaps a little of both. Either way, he wants to rig the audience.
If you think that Dominic & the Stranger were trying to rig it, perhaps there's something to that as well. But downtown Seattle is centrally located to a lot of people, as well as the major media outlets, far more than Bellevue. It's a beautiful, comfortable hall w/ wonderful acoustics, and there's a lot of history.
And it was agreed upon by both parties.
Spin this how you like, but we all know the truth: Hutcherson is a coward. If he's convinced of his truth, it doesn't matter if he speaks it in front of a stadium full of hecklers. But he's not convinced, not in his heart. He's able to make bank w/ his schtick, but in his heart of hearts, he knows he's wrong. This is about love, and he's preaching the opposite.
But, hey, "Let's get real," huh? Bellevue is Hutcherson's stomping ground, right below Capitol Hill is not. He wants to pack the crowd w/ "his" audience. He thought he could w/ the original venue, but, let's face it, the guy isn't that bright. When he discovered how incompetent he had handled things, he called it off.
If he offered to pay for the venue, then why did he suggest they charge admission? Convenient that you left that part out. He wants to charge admission because he thinks that people who want those who love each other to benefit fully & equally from the laws of this country don't have that much money. He thought the admission fee would be a barrier. Or he's just a cheapskate bastard. Perhaps a little of both. Either way, he wants to rig the audience.
If you think that Dominic & the Stranger were trying to rig it, perhaps there's something to that as well. But downtown Seattle is centrally located to a lot of people, as well as the major media outlets, far more than Bellevue. It's a beautiful, comfortable hall w/ wonderful acoustics, and there's a lot of history.
And it was agreed upon by both parties.
Spin this how you like, but we all know the truth: Hutcherson is a coward. If he's convinced of his truth, it doesn't matter if he speaks it in front of a stadium full of hecklers. But he's not convinced, not in his heart. He's able to make bank w/ his schtick, but in his heart of hearts, he knows he's wrong. This is about love, and he's preaching the opposite.
114
Dear Let's Be Real - Do you expect us to believe that Hutch was willing to pay for renting out a venue in Bellevue when it was just in Dec that he sent emails out to his church demanding they start giving more because the pastors on staff weren't getting paid regularly? Let's be real indeed. I'm on your email list, I have these.
In the 5th chapter of Matthew Jesus (You remember him, right? I can introduce you to him sometime if you haven't met) said to let your yes be yes and your no be no "anything beyond this comes from the evil one." Hutch has proven himself to be a false prophet and an opportunist. How many times has the man said that God told him something and it didn't come to pass? Whether it was him making an ass of himself in front of Microsoft or claiming that God was not going to allow the pass of Ref 71 he has proven himself to be untrustworthy. I'm not sure why his church can't see that.
Please, for his sake and everyone else within earshot of him, get this man out from behind a microphone and get him help. He obviously has mental issues and he's using God to validate his narcissism and delusions of grandeur.
In the 5th chapter of Matthew Jesus (You remember him, right? I can introduce you to him sometime if you haven't met) said to let your yes be yes and your no be no "anything beyond this comes from the evil one." Hutch has proven himself to be a false prophet and an opportunist. How many times has the man said that God told him something and it didn't come to pass? Whether it was him making an ass of himself in front of Microsoft or claiming that God was not going to allow the pass of Ref 71 he has proven himself to be untrustworthy. I'm not sure why his church can't see that.
Please, for his sake and everyone else within earshot of him, get this man out from behind a microphone and get him help. He obviously has mental issues and he's using God to validate his narcissism and delusions of grandeur.
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