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Thursday, February 9, 2012

LGBTQITSLFA Required Listening: Howard Stern on Ellen, JC Penney, Bullied Gay Kids, Rosie, Santorum, Bachmann, et al

Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 1:19 PM

I can't count the number of times I've defended figures like Howard Stern and Bill Maher—straight entertainers who 1. fully support gay rights but 2. sometimes tell jokes that sensitivos consider homophobic. These guys are on our side and they're good for our side. Yeah, sometimes the tell jokes or do bits that are rooted in what is clearly their own personal discomfort with/fear of gay sex, particularly that man-on-man buttsex they never tire of hearing about, obsessing about, joking about, etc. But you know what? There are a lot of people out there who oppose gay rights because they're uncomfortable with gay sex and a lot of these folks—and lots of them are the kinds of guys who listen to Stern—are convinced that their own personal discomfort with gay sex requires them to oppose gay rights. What the Sterns and Mahers demonstrate is that you can be a little uncomfortable with gay sex—you can even have sense of humor about your discomfort, you can even tell the occasional joke about it—and still support the full civil equality of LGBT people.

Anyway, listen to Howard Stern lay into the bigots. It's beautiful radio.

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This is great. Listen to Stern's voice as he talks about the 14 yr old girl who killed herself. You can tell he's speaking as a father.

Posted by PoliGeek on February 9, 2012 at 1:31 PM

Eh, while I totally get that he makes a good ally, it's just hard to reconcile that with the persona.

I don't hate the guy, and I'm very glad that he invites George Takei and others to come on his show ( even if just to be riffed on ), but I don't enjoy the douchey/wacky/sexist morning zoo character.

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 9, 2012 at 1:36 PM

Is he doing less of it lately? I'd probably be more likely to tune in if so.

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 9, 2012 at 1:37 PM

I'm not a big fan of him, because the humor's just not my style, but this is totally fantastic and excellent.

Posted by Helix on February 9, 2012 at 1:42 PM

Thanks a million for this. I love everything about this, down to the belch nine minutes in. Maher, feh, I admire him enough but he gives me a rash. Howard Stern, though - whatta mensch.

Posted by gloomy gus on February 9, 2012 at 1:44 PM

Howard Stern has totally evolved on gay issues. What a pity more straight guys don't come around to his way of thinking. We gay people are under attack and we need allies who are strong, confident of their own sexuality, and not threatened by gay people.

Stern is right - the homophobes should be spat upon every time they open their mouths and spew their hate. It's time our straight allies do their part to help us out. Rise up, straight people! We need your help.

Posted by tniel on February 9, 2012 at 1:48 PM

One of the frustrating things about being a Howard Stern fan in this town is trying to convince people how intelligent and progressive the bulk of the subject matter is. Between the sybian rides and toilet humor you have three bright people (namely Howard, Robin, and Fred) plainly and nonsensically speak of human rights, gay rights, the folly of the right, to an audience that needs to hear it the most, mainly white straight males.

Posted by stjerome on February 9, 2012 at 1:51 PM

The only problem with Howard Stern, are his fans.

Posted by Kinison

on February 9, 2012 at 2:01 PM

@5: "Maher, feh, I admire him enough but he gives me a rash. Howard Stern, though - whatta mensch."

I probably give Stern more cred than Maher. Stern pretending to be a lot more retarded than he is is less distressing than Maher portraying himself as much more sensical than he is in reality.

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 9, 2012 at 2:05 PM

This is the first time I've heard a bit from Howard Stern that didn't make me disgusted, but then it's been awhile since I was given a reason to listen to him.

Posted by Knat on February 9, 2012 at 2:06 PM

As a gay kid who grew up listening to Stern (and oftentimes defending him to my other more-leftist-than-thou friends throughout high school) I can definitively say that he helped save my life. His book Private Parts came out around the time I hit puberty. I remember reading the parts about Lesbians = Ratings but more importantly as a young gay man, he included a profile of Xibohn (I'm pretty sure I'm spelling that wrong) but here was a guy including a gay man and his story in his bio.

Part of the Howard Stern story is a genuine love of the "freaks" and their inclusion to tell their own stories on his radio show, no matter how outrageous... Was it played for laughs? Absolutely. Was it part of a section called "the Wack Pack," regrettably so.

But in spite of all that, the mere fact that Howard sought to include a gay man in his bestselling book meant everything to me at the time. I'm sure I'm not the only non-stereotypical gay man (well, I'm more of a stereotype now than I was when I was in middle and high school) who listened to him at impressionable age and is alive today, in part, because of it!!

Thanks for posting this, Dan. I stopped listening when he went to satellite but I think I may become a subscriber just because of this one statement.

Babaabooey!!!! Bababooey!!!!!

Posted by DannyG on February 9, 2012 at 2:07 PM

@7 is right. They have brought an entire audience along that would normally not be exposed to more nuanced and progressive ideas of tolerance.

Frankly I wish there more people on left that understood Stern.

It seems most modern liberals can't abide edgy satire with out going into rhetorical histrionics incapable of considering context.

Thanks, Dan.

Posted by tkc on February 9, 2012 at 2:09 PM

I suppose it's the difference between willful stupidity and smug, willfully ignorant stupidity.

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 9, 2012 at 2:11 PM

Is it just me or does he sound like Alan Alda?

Posted by heywhatsit!? on February 9, 2012 at 2:12 PM

@12: "It seems most modern liberals can't abide edgy satire with out going into rhetorical histrionics incapable of considering context."

As far as I'm aware, since the beginning, the main people complaining about Stern and trying to get him taken off the air have been the right wing.

"most modern liberals can't abide edgy satire with out going into rhetorical histrionics incapable of considering context"

Apparently, considering your opinion on Penn and plenty of other topics, liberals don't like you because you come off as an asshole. Sometimes shit is unnecessary and distasteful. The person consistently going into histrionics in these threads is you, bitching about those "liberals that can't take a joke".

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 9, 2012 at 2:22 PM

I like that line about kicking the shit out of Hitler. He's right.

Posted by Vince on February 9, 2012 at 2:28 PM

I <3 Howard.

Posted by merry on February 9, 2012 at 2:31 PM

@15

What? Liberals don't like me! (OH GOD NO! Where will I ever get sushi!?!) When did this happen? Is there poll out there? Considering that fact that I am a liberal this may make for some interesting complications when it comes time for me to masturbate.

And do tell. What is my opinion of Penn, exactly? And please point out these histrionics of which you speak? I'm curious.

Somebody is sure insecure about something. What did I do to get so under your obviously thin skin?

Posted by tkc on February 9, 2012 at 2:34 PM

@18: "What did I do to get so under your obviously thin skin?"

Making enough nonstop bitchy comments about "PC liberals" for me to pay attention, I suppose.

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 9, 2012 at 2:41 PM

Howard Stern is Howard Stern. He is not going to suddenly become Louis Rukeyser. And he is NOT "morning zoo." Stern is a hugely smart, funny, engaging man with a terrific set of interviewing skills. I stopped listening to him as much since he reupped with Sirius only because Artie is gone and there is less diversity in the studio (too much agreeing, too much of the same thing etc.). But the man is a god. Love him.

Posted by puppydogtails on February 9, 2012 at 2:44 PM

And yet...

At the same time, Gay Men, for example, can start behaving more like part of the mainstream and less a part of a disenfranchised subculture that sees any male as fair game for a sexual event, comment, or stare.

Like in "The Elevator" from SNL:

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/95/95celeva…

How about it?

Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe

on February 9, 2012 at 2:47 PM

@21: "sees any male as fair game for a sexual event, comment, or stare."

Oh you wish.

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 9, 2012 at 2:49 PM

@19 Well. I'm flattered. But you have me at a disadvantage. I forget you exist five seconds after I hit the post button and have no idea what you talk about.

I believe I have literally never used the laughable term "PC liberals" in my life. So this notion you have of me is thoroughly a construct of your own imagination. And whatever attention you give me is your own problem. But if you stalk, I leave my blinds up around 9:30.

And. For the record my opinion of Sean Penn is that he's a great actor but probably hell to hang around.

Posted by tkc on February 9, 2012 at 2:52 PM

Can you two fuck off with your flame war please.

Posted by puppydogtails on February 9, 2012 at 2:55 PM

#22

Look, twice I went to Red Robin in the past week.

For some reason the first time, this guy came around my booth (I was alone reading my Kindle and having a Whiskey burger) and started like bending over at the next table and sticking his butt in my face while I was trying to eat.

I wrote a complaint to Red Robin and tried to be as sensitive as I could possibly be. I tried to describe the behavior and so on, and why it made me feel uncomfortable.

Then I gave them another chance last night. Was it any different? No, the guy was still doing what he did the last time.

I would love to establish an International "No I Do Not Want Sex With A Dude" high sign. It could even be a lapel pin. Please, tell me what the "turn off" button is and I'll shut up!?!

Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe

on February 9, 2012 at 2:58 PM

I'm a married woman and a huge fan of Howard, Robin, Fred, the whole gang. They have been passionately speaking out against homophobes for years now. Howard does joke around about gay sex, but he jokes around about straight sex too. He's a horny goofball, but he's also compassionate and very self-deprecating. I can understand why uptight, sexually repressed right-wingers hate him, but I just feel bad for his left-wing haters. They're missing out on something great.

Posted by Amanda on February 9, 2012 at 3:01 PM

@21, gay men, like all women, stare at you only for purposes of threat assessment.

Posted by gloomy gus on February 9, 2012 at 3:02 PM

#27

See, look, to me it's a serious issue.

It's one of the reason I suppose Marriage Equality.

I think there is a whole bunch of "underground" stuff that goes on and the justification is that "well, we're not fully entitled citizens".

Agreed. I understand.

I think that pot users feel the same way.

But I say, yes, and if you get the same rights and privileges as everyone else, then the bullshit has to go away because it's no longer justified.

I don't think that's being unreasonable.

Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe

on February 9, 2012 at 3:05 PM

@24 Gladly. 'specially since you said "please."

Posted by tkc on February 9, 2012 at 3:06 PM

@ 25: If you just openly admitted you were obsessed with gay sex, instead of passive-aggressively writing letters after the fact, you might be surprised and dismayed to discover how few gay men actually have any interest in you.

gloomy gus @27 FTW.

Posted by Chase on February 9, 2012 at 3:09 PM

This makes me wonder if The Stranger staff has ever listened to Adam Carolla outside of that particular OWS rant. He deserves to be mentioned alongside Stern based on the nature of this piece.

Posted by Chali2Na on February 9, 2012 at 3:11 PM

@14 he does sound quite a bit like Alan Alda. WHAT Howard says is quite a bit different though.

Posted by Sandiai on February 9, 2012 at 3:14 PM

@2 -- Anyone who would accuse Howard Stern of being morning zoo has no idea what that term means. His entire career is built on satirizing and subverting morning zoo conventions. He's more scornful of zookeepers than anyone else, which you'd know if you'd ever really listened to him. It's obvious you haven't, which makes you typical of his loudest detractors.

Posted by Amanda on February 9, 2012 at 3:16 PM

@25: "I would love to establish an International "No I Do Not Want Sex With A Dude" high sign. It could even be a lapel pin. Please, tell me what the "turn off" button is and I'll shut up!?!"

If I took what you were bitching about seriously, everyone I've ever ridden a bus with and every waiter that I've ever seen was trying to bang me. You're a thoroughly silly person.

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 9, 2012 at 3:16 PM

@28 Supreme Ruler, I don't know what goes on in your head, but the world is not full of gay guys making passes at you. Nor is it full of straight women who want your bod. Most of the time most people are not thinking about sex.

That guy in the Red Robin may or may not be gay, but he probably finds that position easier to talk with his customers. Maybe he's insensitive. Maybe he has a bad back. Asking him not to stick his ass so close to your face would have gotten much better results than writing a letter to corporate offices. Or do all waiters at Red Robin stand the same way?

Posted by Schweighsr on February 9, 2012 at 3:16 PM

@25: really? That's your complaint? You realize that's how straight guys are perceived by women, right? It's not a gay guy thing, it's a guy thing.

Posted by switzerblog on February 9, 2012 at 3:19 PM

@28- Welcome to a day in the life of any reasonably attractive (or even not particularly attractive but kinda young) woman. Let me know if you find that high sign.

Posted by chi_type on February 9, 2012 at 3:22 PM

His humor isn't really my thing but I know enough people I otherwise like & respect to understand he isn't actually a complete douche.

But I really find other things funnier. Just me. If there's a transcript of this, though, I have no doubt I'd enjoy it. I'll poke around.

Posted by BEG

on February 9, 2012 at 3:27 PM

I still firmly believe that if John Kerry had gone on Stern's show and done a nice long interview he could have won the election. Stern was a huge Kerry supporter, hated Bush, and as someone else pointed out, probably the best interviewer in mainstream media today.

Posted by catsnbanjos on February 9, 2012 at 3:57 PM

It's true, some uptight, insecure straight men are afraid gay guys will hit on them the way straight guys hit on women. If you really think he's coming on to you (chances are it's all in your imagination) You can do what we women do with such unwanted attention:ignore it.

Posted by alisamc

on February 9, 2012 at 4:08 PM

Oh Bailo. If that incident you describe happened at all (highly doubt it) you probably misinterpreted it. What that waiter was probably doing is called "cleaning." You should give it a try you hog.

When are you scheduled to gun-down a woman's exercise class?

Posted by McGee on February 9, 2012 at 4:16 PM

I love this. I love the fact that he explains it in terms that his audience can grasp and understand and he gets it so f-ing right!

Posted by wishicould on February 9, 2012 at 4:17 PM

I'm not a fan of everything Howard Stern is and says, but wow, was I ever cheering during this rant. Thanks for posting it!

Posted by secretchord on February 9, 2012 at 4:41 PM

He's still the king. This is amazing.

Posted by Tom X on February 9, 2012 at 4:43 PM

Yeah, Robin, knows what's up. I love me some Cory Booker too. Whoa man.

Posted by GlamB0t on February 9, 2012 at 4:59 PM

@33: I was going to say that, but you beat me to it. No one who ever heard him doing the bit where Robyn forces him to do the Friday morning "It's The Weekend!" Morning Zoo thing would accuse him of being a Morning Zoo hack.

I don't listen anymore, but back in the day, 20+ years ago, when Stern and crew were first expanding out of the NYC market to Philadelphia and beyond, I remember a bit he used to do called "The Homo Room," wherein he and his guest would trade stories about homosexual experiences they'd had. The background sound effects were clinking chains and dripping water, and there was a general goofiness about it, but they weren't making fun of being gay. It was probably the only mainstream media discussion of the sort going on at the time. Remember: This was a horrible classic rock station. The audience really were people who needed to hear this stuff. I doubt he meant it as any kind of public service, but he managed to goof on issues without being homophobic or cruel. Mostly.

Posted by aureolaborealis on February 9, 2012 at 5:11 PM

Here is a link to the Rolling Stone article he is referencing:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new…

Posted by Badger on February 9, 2012 at 5:13 PM

FWIW: Robyn was the first "mainstream" media woman I ever heard admitting that she enjoyed anal sex.

Posted by aureolaborealis on February 9, 2012 at 5:14 PM

@21: Imagine the kind of shit that lesbians have to deal with...

Posted by venomlash on February 9, 2012 at 5:38 PM

@47 That article is truly chilling. If anyone has any doubt about the existence of true evil in the world today, they need look no further than suburban Minnesota.

Posted by chi_type on February 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM

I don't think I'm over him calling that college women's basketball team a bunch of nappy-headed ho's.

Posted by clashfan on February 9, 2012 at 7:24 PM

It must be 15 years at least since I've listened to him, and I was surprised at
1) how there was no attempt to make a joke
2) how "flat" the whole Sirius radio experience is.

But I appreciated his attitude and dedication and hope that he's reaching a population that might be homophobic and bigoted (though I don't think that the Bachman and Santorum-supporting crowd necessarily listen to him anyway).

@51: you're confusing Stern with Don Imus. And you're committing apostrophe abuse. It's "hoes" or "hos," not "ho's."

Posted by nocutename on February 9, 2012 at 9:22 PM

And oh yeah; Dave Letterman is an asshole too. Kirstie Allen busted him for making fat jokes about her and he promised to be nice, well the next night he made fat jokes about her. Dickhead.

Posted by alisamc

on February 9, 2012 at 10:18 PM

Oh. My. God. That was fucking inspired!! Go Howard!

Posted by seandr on February 9, 2012 at 10:44 PM

I just wish he'd gotten the attribution right. Matt Taibbi didn't write that particular wonderful article. Sabrina Ruben Erdely did.

Posted by mran on February 10, 2012 at 12:15 AM

I'm not a big fan of Mr Stern -- some of the stuff he does seems exaggerated way beyond context -- but I can see he's not just a simpleton or a guy who's out there to get laughs by saying outrageous things. There's something more to him than that, enough that I can understand his admirers.

It's a curious thing in American culture, this blend of high and low motives, deep ideas and stupid clichés. I have the feeling this is evolving into something quite interesting. The Simpsons, South Park, Family Guy, Louie C.K... There's something going on in America that involves both intelligence and the appearance of stupidity. Ultimately, I like that. I wonder where it's going.

Posted by ankylosaur on February 10, 2012 at 2:13 AM

Brilliant rant!

Has anyone here seen this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgm06iMF4…

It's *Bill O Reilly defending Ellen*! Seriously!

Posted by Megaera on February 10, 2012 at 4:52 AM

Sensitivos - Bitches who have to bitch about something regardless of the situation are one of the worst enemies of every movement.

Posted by Kylere on February 10, 2012 at 6:29 AM

I love that Howard gives a shout-out to Cory Booker of Newark. He's awesome, and I love how he laid out the case for gay marriage in a press conference. It was great.

Posted by JrzWrld on February 10, 2012 at 6:59 AM

Changing the subject back to Ellen DeGeneres, JC Penney's and the One Million Moms: those moms are still calling and writing JCPenney's trying to get Ellen fired. I encourage you to write or call JCPenney's in support of keeping Ellen. A customer service rep will reply to you with a nice note.
http://www.jcpenney.com/jcp/CustomerServ…

Posted by Violet415 on February 10, 2012 at 7:36 AM

It is so strange, are conservatives obsessed with homosexuality or are gays obsessed with conservatives? I guess it wouldn't matter if people like santorum would just leave homosexuals alone. We got it already, his belief is that it's not God's plan; fine Rick, you've said now move on. Does that make sense? Example, you tell someone at work don't like them and then you're supposed to avoid them. If you go to work everyday and continually say "I don't like you because blah blah blah.", then at some point it becomes harassment. For some reason this reminds me of the Stephen Fry debate about whether or not the Catholic Church is a force of good in the world. I think you can still find that on youtube.
Final thought, I'ld bang Howard Stern; but then again, I'ld bang Rick Santorum too. Guess there's no standards left because I can't get a date any hole will do.

Posted by usairdude on February 10, 2012 at 7:42 AM

@21 Try being female.

Posted by Seltzer on February 10, 2012 at 7:57 AM

@52, of course you are right. I did have them confused in my head. Apologies to Mr Stern and his fans. (I'm often iffy on apostrophes when it comes to the plurals of neologisms such as 'ho' and 'CD'. I'm not sure we've reached consensus.)

Posted by clashfan on February 10, 2012 at 8:02 AM

Howard Stern is like Dear Abby--both people work within the constraints of what their audience expects/will tolerate to nudge them along in the right direction. Good work Howard!

Posted by sfguy on February 10, 2012 at 8:06 AM

I couldn't agree more, Dan.

Posted by Dave1 on February 10, 2012 at 8:19 AM

@38 Did you find one? I'll have a crack at it tonight (tomorrow at the latest) if you don't post that you found one...

Posted by Rubbish_Transcriber on February 10, 2012 at 9:33 AM

@56 -- I don't see what Louis CK has to do with the appearance of stupidity, but okay.

Posted by Amanda on February 10, 2012 at 10:52 AM

@46: Let me rephrase, I just don't like the morning talk radio format, whether he invented it and everybody imitated or not. Real or satire. I still wish him the best in this.

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 10, 2012 at 2:25 PM

Pretty good for Howard. I think I cringed only once (apparently Cory Booker is "well-spoken").

Posted by Mr. J on February 10, 2012 at 2:36 PM

@67: Once again, you beat me to it.
@56: I don't see Louis CK in that group at all, either his stand-up or his show(s). Were you thinking of someone else, Ank? Louie Anderson?

Posted by aureolaborealis on February 10, 2012 at 5:27 PM

@6, "What a pity more straight guys don't come around to his way of thinking."

Well, as a straight guy who has mostly straight guy friends, I think that we are. Of course there are still millions of bigoted straight guys still out there but their numbers are dwindling. I'm sick of people bashing other people because of their sexuality. I'm in tennessee and we recently had a state representative say in an interview that if he saw a transgendered man using a woman's restroom that he would stomp the transgendered person to death. WTF? This man is an elected representative! We're trying to get him out of office, but this is the deep south. If we get the bigots out of our government, it will be easier to silence them in the general population. Anyway, I'm rambling now. Great audio clip. Kudos to Howard.

Posted by participantawardrecipient on February 11, 2012 at 9:08 AM

@71 participantawardrecipient
Kudos to you.

Posted by Mr. J on February 12, 2012 at 10:53 AM

This is a pretty good rant. I haven't listened to him much, but the last time I listened to anything of Howard Stern's I was so turned off by it that it's prevented me from listening to anything else by him until now. I was always kind of ashamed that he was one of the so-called "liberal" talk-show hosts, but I'm less so now that I've listened to this.

Posted by alguna_rubia on February 12, 2012 at 10:49 PM