Slog
News & ArtsFriday, February 10, 2012
Occupy / City Crowdsourcing Uncut Police Video from the Dec. 12 Occupy Protest at the Port of Seattle
Posted by Eli Sanders on Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 6:00 AM
- E.S.
Remember the December 12, 2011 West Coast Port Shutdown protests? The flying flares, the stun grenades, the claims of police brutality (by a clergyman!), the edited SPD video that was released shortly afterward to show, in the words of one police spokesman, that the port protest was "not peaceful"?
- Via John Helmiere
- Minister John Helmiere
Remember how Minister John Helmiere, of the Valley & Mountain Spiritual Community in Columbia City, said he saw himself in the edited police video ("I’m the tall guy in the white overcoat," he told me back on Dec. 16) but conceded the edited police video didn't show his alleged beating at the hands of police?
"I wish there was more," Helmiere told me at the time.
Well, now there is more.
On Dec. 16, I filed a public records request with the Seattle Police Department asking for the full, unedited video taken by two police department employees who shot video of the Dec. 12 Occupy/West Coast Port Shutdown protests. I recently got the SPD's response—two discs that the SPD says show "all video" from the event—and the wonderful Kelly O has now posted the video from both discs on YouTube for your examining.
Here are the videos:
I've watched both of these videos and I have to say that for myself, the major takeaway is how patient and self-controlled the police were in response to an incredible stream of verbal abuse that was hurled at them—along with bags of paint, pieces of wood, and other objects—by the protesters.
Check out, for example, the guy in the Santa hat who I noticed at around 10:00 on Part I of the video ("What the fuck's the matter with you?" he yells at an officer trying to clear him from an intersection) and who can still be seen shouting at officers ("I'll take that fucking badge off you, bitch") at 17:20 and beyond.
There is certainly scuffling, and pepper-spraying, and use of force by police to clear the intersections and roadways that protesters were occupying. You'll also see more of Minister Helmiere in his white overcoat and black stocking cap (starting at around 20:00 on Part I). Oh, and there's a male protester claiming rape, who gets arrested starting at about 23:00 on Part II and by 24:00-ish is yelling: "Don't touch my ass! Don't touch my dick! They're raping me!"
But I didn't see any rape or brutality by police.
I'll admit I've only watched these once, though.
Maybe you'll see something I didn't? If so, please note the time stamp—and whether it's on Part I or Part II—in the comments.
1
That's the really hard part about being a cop. You can be the most wonderful, patient, understanding law officer ever and have dozen of fellow officers be the same, but if ONE of you is an asshole, then you're all considered assholes.
2
@1 The only assholes are the "protesters" who act like school children. Congratulations assholes! You've made OWS loook even worse than your critics claimed. And you've squandered your credibility.
3
Eli Sanders, you are a fool. Why would the cops film themselves beating people?
Are you really that stupid? Is the Stranger really staffed by such dimwits? Maybe you and Dominic Holden can go jerk each other off in the bathroom.
Fine, these videos are the final word. Because the police chose to not film other cops beating people, it never happened.
Go kill yourself you petty fascist-loving yuppie.
Are you really that stupid? Is the Stranger really staffed by such dimwits? Maybe you and Dominic Holden can go jerk each other off in the bathroom.
Fine, these videos are the final word. Because the police chose to not film other cops beating people, it never happened.
Go kill yourself you petty fascist-loving yuppie.
4
"how patient and self-controlled the police were in response to an incredible stream of verbal abuse"
Well, thank God for our police! Protect and serve! Good show, boys in blue! You deserve a warm fuzzy, not these mean insults.
Kind of wondering why there weren't public records requests filed for the times the police used horses and bikes to force protesters around. Or, you know, the time the old lady got pepper sprayed.
Cops suck.
Well, thank God for our police! Protect and serve! Good show, boys in blue! You deserve a warm fuzzy, not these mean insults.
Kind of wondering why there weren't public records requests filed for the times the police used horses and bikes to force protesters around. Or, you know, the time the old lady got pepper sprayed.
Cops suck.
5
@3 They now make (get this) portable telephones that can take photos! And movies! Regular people—even protesters—own these devices.
Do you really believe Eli and Dominic wouldn't be the first to put up victim video if it existed? Put up or shut up.
Do you really believe Eli and Dominic wouldn't be the first to put up victim video if it existed? Put up or shut up.
7
Yes, @3 is definitely worth reading, if only for a good laugh. Clueless fuckwits like that are the reason nobody takes these people seriously.
8
Does anyone know how I could make that fella's line "they're touching my asshole!" into a ringtone?
10
@4 Suppose a group of striking workers were to block a road or sidewalk and prevent replacement workers from entering a business. In your opinion, how should that conflict be resolved?
11
@ 7, what's worse is that Occupy is completely sidetracked by that bullshit. Protesting police will do nothing about Wall Street's power, which was supposed to be the point.
12
@4 People who block streets and fuck up other peoples' day so they can play revolutionary suck too.
13
Oh, see, the problem is you're watching what the SPD claims to be "uncut" footage.
Real citizens have had uncut (REAL uncut) footage up on youtube since it happened.
Real citizens have had uncut (REAL uncut) footage up on youtube since it happened.
14
@1: If you're protecting known assholes/murderers/what have you KNOWINGLY, then yes, you are included in that grouping of "asshole."
15
Pulled from under the cut, because Eli deserves to see it twice:
Eli Sanders, you are a fool. Why would the cops film themselves beating people?
Are you really that stupid? Is the Stranger really staffed by such dimwits? Maybe you and Dominic Holden can go jerk each other off in the bathroom.
Fine, these videos are the final word. Because the police chose to not film other cops beating people, it never happened.
Go kill yourself you petty fascist-loving yuppie.
Eli Sanders, you are a fool. Why would the cops film themselves beating people?
Are you really that stupid? Is the Stranger really staffed by such dimwits? Maybe you and Dominic Holden can go jerk each other off in the bathroom.
Fine, these videos are the final word. Because the police chose to not film other cops beating people, it never happened.
Go kill yourself you petty fascist-loving yuppie.
17
@ 15, since you seem to be Slog's poster child for Occupy Seattle, can you address how this is supposed to end Wall Street's dominance over American politics and the ever-widening gap between the über-rich and the rest of us? Because I don't see the connection.
18
Yes, please provide a link to un-cut video footage from the protesters point of view. Pretty sure it will only confirm what the police have said all along, that the protest was not peaceful, that many were looking for pick a fight with the cops, to compensate for having a small penis.
19
@17 Yes, I have the same questions for people who constantly espouse faith that third-way Dems--who push relentlessly for bailouts of Wall St. and the banks (see: yesterday)--will effect anything similar.
The Stranger staff has always had a little soft spot for beating up those dumbasses in the park though. Reminds me how awful and so against our affluent liberal sensibilities that some dumb Black Flag morons pushed over a traffic cone and sign. The horror. Please get Gregoire up there so we can have a barnburner of a speech.
The Stranger staff has always had a little soft spot for beating up those dumbasses in the park though. Reminds me how awful and so against our affluent liberal sensibilities that some dumb Black Flag morons pushed over a traffic cone and sign. The horror. Please get Gregoire up there so we can have a barnburner of a speech.
21
From what I've seen, the protesters have been filming just about everything that happens, so I find it hard to believe that the alleged police brutality would go unrecorded. People can claim whatever they want, (Jenifer Fox seems to have fallen of the edge of the Earth after being pressed to provide documentation to show that she was actually pregnant, and then miscarried.) but without presenting evidence, these claims only hurt their cause.
22
If I was holding a gun and a taser and mace and a shield and was wearing bullet-proof body armor and was trained in combat techniques had a whole phalanx of comrades on my side who had the same advantages and would come to my defense no matter what (tactically and legally), I think it would be pretty effortless for me to keep calm and cool when a handful of non-violent hippies were shouting mean words at me. And I would be a bit embarrassed if you called me a saint for exhibiting professional behavior in these circumstances. Do you give your interns a gold star for showing up to work on time?
23
@ 22, hey, glad to see someone else here! You think you can break through the silence of your comrades on this thread and answer @ 17?
24
@23, Tu quoque, tu quoque! @17 is a nonsensical question as OWS* itself was never going to address that. Now please Matt tell me how your brilliant electoral strategy is going to do that? We were told by you guys that you were the more practical ones. How's anything from a civil liberties, mass financial fraud, war mongering-standpoint been alleviated by support for the glorious third way? Concrete non-Lilly Ledbetter answers please.
*Let's forget about Occupy Seattle because they were clearly sucky almost from the beginning.
*Let's forget about Occupy Seattle because they were clearly sucky almost from the beginning.
25
Yeah. And while you're at it can we see the medical records you guys promised of that girl who claimed she miscarried due being pepper sprayed by the cops?
The credibility of Seattle OWS is as close to absoute zero as you can get. And, frankly, in some ways The Stranger right along with it.
Soem of the blame should actually go to some of the writers at the Stranger for the total failure of Seattle OWS.
See, it feels like there has been some sort of Stalin historical revisionist memory wipe on SLOG and at The Stranger in general.
Doesn't anybody else remember how The Stranger was hyperventilating over Seattle OWS for the first months with rarely any real critical judgement or detached coverage?
Though, true, Eli was one of the first to a little more skeptical and objective -Eli deserves credit for at least trying ( he's the best writer at The Stranger for sure).
But the rest of the The Stranger staff? Not so much. It was ridiculous. There were like five or six glowing articles a DAY on SLOG about how awesome and ground breaking OWS was.
This. Despite the fact that many of us, deeply sympathetic the aims of OWS, who went down there saw with our own eyes the same disorganized flighty lefities, that would inevitably derail anything positive, at the lead. And so we left knowing what was going to happen. It was like a script it was so predictable. But the Stranger kept declaring that, no, this was a broad-based Capital M Movement in Seattle (in New York, yes - here? Bullshit). THE PEOPLES MICROPHONE! NO HIERARCHY! CONSENSUS!
Oh. God.
Clearly OWS Seattle was going to be hijacked by a narrow band of self-interested and deluded dip shit anarchists from day one. There was nobody there with any sense to prevent it.
And now?...
The Stranger is clearly so embarrassed by this "movement" it's like all of the previous gushing coverage never even happened.
Next time. Start out with actual journalism. Don't bullshit people. Dump the ideology for five seconds. Have a modicum of emotional distance.
Be MORE like Eli.
More...
The credibility of Seattle OWS is as close to absoute zero as you can get. And, frankly, in some ways The Stranger right along with it.
Soem of the blame should actually go to some of the writers at the Stranger for the total failure of Seattle OWS.
See, it feels like there has been some sort of Stalin historical revisionist memory wipe on SLOG and at The Stranger in general.
Doesn't anybody else remember how The Stranger was hyperventilating over Seattle OWS for the first months with rarely any real critical judgement or detached coverage?
Though, true, Eli was one of the first to a little more skeptical and objective -Eli deserves credit for at least trying ( he's the best writer at The Stranger for sure).
But the rest of the The Stranger staff? Not so much. It was ridiculous. There were like five or six glowing articles a DAY on SLOG about how awesome and ground breaking OWS was.
This. Despite the fact that many of us, deeply sympathetic the aims of OWS, who went down there saw with our own eyes the same disorganized flighty lefities, that would inevitably derail anything positive, at the lead. And so we left knowing what was going to happen. It was like a script it was so predictable. But the Stranger kept declaring that, no, this was a broad-based Capital M Movement in Seattle (in New York, yes - here? Bullshit). THE PEOPLES MICROPHONE! NO HIERARCHY! CONSENSUS!
Oh. God.
Clearly OWS Seattle was going to be hijacked by a narrow band of self-interested and deluded dip shit anarchists from day one. There was nobody there with any sense to prevent it.
And now?...
The Stranger is clearly so embarrassed by this "movement" it's like all of the previous gushing coverage never even happened.
Next time. Start out with actual journalism. Don't bullshit people. Dump the ideology for five seconds. Have a modicum of emotional distance.
Be MORE like Eli.
26
@ 24, your question is a non sequitur. But it has an answer - if the Democrats have a strong left wing, the elected Dems will champion left wing causes. If it's weak, they'll champion centrist causes.
Study American political history sometime.
Anyway, I'll take your weak bailing on my question as meaning that you have no idea how to answer it.
Study American political history sometime.
Anyway, I'll take your weak bailing on my question as meaning that you have no idea how to answer it.
27
@26 It is absolutely not a non-sequitor, especially when you claim your way is better. You've been on here trolling for your faith in the D machine. Keep on shilling, you still look like a moron.
Actually, yeah, study political history sometime. I dunno, maybe the 1900s or so when there were a flurry of alternative parties that pushed the major parties to the far left. Those alt parties did not win but they effected some change many decades later. Still waiting for concrete examples in history where intra-party, pro-establishment movements actually effected comparable change.
Actually, yeah, study political history sometime. I dunno, maybe the 1900s or so when there were a flurry of alternative parties that pushed the major parties to the far left. Those alt parties did not win but they effected some change many decades later. Still waiting for concrete examples in history where intra-party, pro-establishment movements actually effected comparable change.
28
It is a non sequitur because we're discussing the uselessness of confronting the police. I hadn't mentioned party politics at all, and neither had anyone else. You changed the subject, apropos of absolutely nothing on this diary. That's the dictionary definition of a non sequitur.
29
@27, "your way isn't any better!" is just as bad a defense as "what he did was way worse!" or "he started it!"
The simple fact is, these mask-and-hoodie wearing boobs are challenging not the established order but the safety and well-being of ordinary people. YOU DON'T REPRESENT US. Your "revolution" isn't going to happen and couldn't solve the problems we face if it did; you people couldn't solve the problem of an untied shoelace, let alone an economic order. YOU ARE INFERIOR.
Now, get the fuck out of our streets -- not your streets -- or the police will clear you out of them, as it is their duty to do. It's called TAKING OUT THE TRASH.
The simple fact is, these mask-and-hoodie wearing boobs are challenging not the established order but the safety and well-being of ordinary people. YOU DON'T REPRESENT US. Your "revolution" isn't going to happen and couldn't solve the problems we face if it did; you people couldn't solve the problem of an untied shoelace, let alone an economic order. YOU ARE INFERIOR.
Now, get the fuck out of our streets -- not your streets -- or the police will clear you out of them, as it is their duty to do. It's called TAKING OUT THE TRASH.
30
@29 If you're going to quote me, you might want to actually quote me. Also, see tu quoque.
Just because I don't fall for Matt's trolling doesn't mean I am one of *them*, Fnarf. (*wink, wink*) Honestly, you sound like a fucking Republican trog (oops, or Dem) who thinks most of the world is drone worthy. I'm not exactly sure it's superior to have all this disowned rage or equally despicable endorsement of violence* that you do. Now go back to your superior Dem precinct meetings and dreams of hippy punching.
*And yes OWS lost me with their refusal to be endorse non-violent action.
Just because I don't fall for Matt's trolling doesn't mean I am one of *them*, Fnarf. (*wink, wink*) Honestly, you sound like a fucking Republican trog (oops, or Dem) who thinks most of the world is drone worthy. I'm not exactly sure it's superior to have all this disowned rage or equally despicable endorsement of violence* that you do. Now go back to your superior Dem precinct meetings and dreams of hippy punching.
*And yes OWS lost me with their refusal to be endorse non-violent action.
31
Hmmm.... Being unable to answer a reasonable question = the person posing the reasonable question is a troll.
It's about time that Godwin's Law was updated.
It's about time that Godwin's Law was updated.
32
@31 I guess I'd question your ironclad logic that it's a) a reasonable question and b) that it was addressed to me. I don't need to address your nonsensical question to somebody else. I'd rather just hold you accountable for your bullshit, third-way fellating philosophy each time I can.
33
Hey Matt, the idea was to shut down the port as a west coast solidarity effort to protest the growing gap between rich and poor. If basic human needs are ignored for more ipads from China, then the wheels have fallen off the bus and business as usual cannot continue. I'm sorry the cops got in the middle of this cat fight with the wall street investors and the unemployed, it certainly wasn't the point of the entire thing. Does that clear anything up for you?
34
@33 In your opinion, was the force used by the police to disperse the protestors reasonable under the circumstances?
35
@ 33, yes, thank you, it does. There's been enough anti-police actions that I forgot that this didn't begin as one of them.
@ 32, if you can question the reasonableness of my question, do it. Just calling it nonsense doesn't make it so. (It's moot now, in light of 33, but you can still learn from 33 and maybe salvage your rep a bit.)
@ 32, if you can question the reasonableness of my question, do it. Just calling it nonsense doesn't make it so. (It's moot now, in light of 33, but you can still learn from 33 and maybe salvage your rep a bit.)
37
I don't really think about use of force by police as reasonable or unreasonable anymore. They are a force of nature like rattlesnakes and thunderstorms, not really useful to get mad at them or pass judgements on motives. Cops serve the interests of the corporate powers that rule our world, they will use whatever force is available to them keep them safe to do business.
Protesters also are products of their times and circumstances. My grandfather witnessed food riots in downtown Minneapolis the winter of 1933, kind of makes the port actions of last December look like a game of patty cake. In fact, the coming election cycle of 2012 really looks like a shit storm of disenfranchised poor people and militarized municipal police, throw in some new laws about domestic terrorism, a few more demobilized soldiers looking for work, and you will be begging for "safe and sane" road blockades like these videos show.
Protesters also are products of their times and circumstances. My grandfather witnessed food riots in downtown Minneapolis the winter of 1933, kind of makes the port actions of last December look like a game of patty cake. In fact, the coming election cycle of 2012 really looks like a shit storm of disenfranchised poor people and militarized municipal police, throw in some new laws about domestic terrorism, a few more demobilized soldiers looking for work, and you will be begging for "safe and sane" road blockades like these videos show.
38
@ 36, you're right. I'm probably the only person who pays you any attention, so a nonexistent reputation can't really be hurt, can it?
39
You know, if a protest is called "Occupy Wall Street", it's probably not entirely idiotic to expect it to address injustice in the financial sector.
@17 - You seem satisfied with @33's response, but I think it's a red herring: even if Occupy had managed to completely shut down sea trade to and from the US indefinitely, I don't see how that would do anything to address economic injustice in the US.
The real answer to your question, the only solution that Occupy has ever had to the problem of economic injustice, is to replace existing social, political, and economic structures with non-hierarchical, borderless communities of autonomous individuals making societal decisions via supermajority-consensus process.
I'd like to have a serious discussion with Occupiers about whether or not this sort of scholarly, small-a anarchism can work even on paper, but all I've managed to get in response is "we're just beginning" and "there's a lot of work to do." The issues aren't new, though, of course: serious, modern, anarchist political theory has been debated for over 200 years now, and many of the structural problems in anarchism that have been raised in that time remain very much unsolved.
There's also the matter of the deep philosophical divisions to which serious, theoretical anarchists are notoriously prone; I'm content to leave those alone for now, as it seems Occupy has managed for the most part to paper over those splits for the sake of actually getting out into the streets and doing stuff.
@17 is a nonsensical question as OWS* itself was never going to address that.
You know, if a protest is called "Occupy Wall Street", it's probably not entirely idiotic to expect it to address injustice in the financial sector.
@17 - You seem satisfied with @33's response, but I think it's a red herring: even if Occupy had managed to completely shut down sea trade to and from the US indefinitely, I don't see how that would do anything to address economic injustice in the US.
The real answer to your question, the only solution that Occupy has ever had to the problem of economic injustice, is to replace existing social, political, and economic structures with non-hierarchical, borderless communities of autonomous individuals making societal decisions via supermajority-consensus process.
I'd like to have a serious discussion with Occupiers about whether or not this sort of scholarly, small-a anarchism can work even on paper, but all I've managed to get in response is "we're just beginning" and "there's a lot of work to do." The issues aren't new, though, of course: serious, modern, anarchist political theory has been debated for over 200 years now, and many of the structural problems in anarchism that have been raised in that time remain very much unsolved.
There's also the matter of the deep philosophical divisions to which serious, theoretical anarchists are notoriously prone; I'm content to leave those alone for now, as it seems Occupy has managed for the most part to paper over those splits for the sake of actually getting out into the streets and doing stuff.
40
As a grandchild of a Chicagoan from 1968 I can tell you this was no police riot. I kept waiting for swinging billy clubs, mass arrests and curb stomps. Instead I saw restrained, measured, competent police actions to defend the area from vandalism and further abuse by some hotheads who were given every chance to clear out and who none the less were treated very gently considering the circumstances. I am not seeing a riot. You whining babies have no idea what a police riot looks like if you think this was one.
Memo to the so called occupy kids: YOU ARE IDIOTS. You are not accomplishing anything but drive people away from your cause. I am anti cop when they do something dumb, like stomping the mexican piss, or beating up a 15 year old girl in custody, or our shining example of cop incompetence Ian Burk. But not this time. The police did their jobs, they took your crap, they did what they were supposed to and they kept their response to the minimum required to handle the situation. Kudos to the police for keeping violence down and providing the public property under assault with some measure of safety from spoiled angry children, which is all I see on the protest side, spoiled angry children. Go home and do some bongs you failed reject loser protest wannabe jerks.
Memo to the so called occupy kids: YOU ARE IDIOTS. You are not accomplishing anything but drive people away from your cause. I am anti cop when they do something dumb, like stomping the mexican piss, or beating up a 15 year old girl in custody, or our shining example of cop incompetence Ian Burk. But not this time. The police did their jobs, they took your crap, they did what they were supposed to and they kept their response to the minimum required to handle the situation. Kudos to the police for keeping violence down and providing the public property under assault with some measure of safety from spoiled angry children, which is all I see on the protest side, spoiled angry children. Go home and do some bongs you failed reject loser protest wannabe jerks.
41
@39 A group of people willing to submit to a central authority gains to many military and economic advantages to make anarchism practical.
42
@ 39, nah, I was really wondering how the hell they think marching around, saying ALL cops are bastards and waving torches, will do a damn thing about anything. I had really forgotten that this particular protest was supposed to do something else that was counterproductive. I think that was because they were all revved up to hate the police, talking about it, so it got all mixed up in their message; but that was still my error.
It IS interesting that no one has come along to say "police brutality @ xx:xx."
It IS interesting that no one has come along to say "police brutality @ xx:xx."
44
Even though OWS has defined its own irrelevance by choosing protests with no obvious* link to their cause, they have effected change. I doubt all of this recent pandering to the middle class by both the Ds and the Rs would exist if not for OWS. Might not change anything, but the wealth disparity between the 1% and 99% has gotten tons of press as a direct result of the movement.
* Thanks, @33, for that explanation. I had no idea what shutting down the ports had to do with wealth disparity. It's a shame, though, that such an explanation is required. If it doesn't fit on a sign, pick another venue.
* Thanks, @33, for that explanation. I had no idea what shutting down the ports had to do with wealth disparity. It's a shame, though, that such an explanation is required. If it doesn't fit on a sign, pick another venue.
45
This video is NOT unedited.
In part I, after the camera pans away from Helmiere at 23:45 there are several cuts at these times:
23:52, 24:02, 24:28, 25:04, 25:18 (suddenly sound!)
Where else has the video been edited? WHY is this video being presented as "uncut" when it obviously HAS been edited?
Here is Helmiere in his own words, and video of him being snatched from behind, and also video of him standing at the scene afterward, with visible red marks on the side of his face.
In part I here, Helmiere is seen and heard for a moment at 16:04 telling one officer "I was struck violently many times". The officer taking video IMMEDIATELY pulls the camera away from Helmiere, and we can't hear anything else he says.
Also in part I, after 13:00, police grab a woman with bright head hair BY her hair and yank her away after she announced "the whole world is watching!". (Helmiere can be seen in the background being shoved around and then pulled to the ground.) Here is another angle of the red-haired woman (at 00:29), showing police throw her to the ground HARD (unfortunately video is very dark).
It was a chaotic scene, but there WERE instances of excessive force/brutality enacted by police including throwing flash grenades into a dense crowd (imagine if one of those had gone off in someone's face?).
And that guy in the santa hat is RIDICULOUS. Gotta wonder: provocateur?
In part I, after the camera pans away from Helmiere at 23:45 there are several cuts at these times:
23:52, 24:02, 24:28, 25:04, 25:18 (suddenly sound!)
Where else has the video been edited? WHY is this video being presented as "uncut" when it obviously HAS been edited?
Here is Helmiere in his own words, and video of him being snatched from behind, and also video of him standing at the scene afterward, with visible red marks on the side of his face.
In part I here, Helmiere is seen and heard for a moment at 16:04 telling one officer "I was struck violently many times". The officer taking video IMMEDIATELY pulls the camera away from Helmiere, and we can't hear anything else he says.
Also in part I, after 13:00, police grab a woman with bright head hair BY her hair and yank her away after she announced "the whole world is watching!". (Helmiere can be seen in the background being shoved around and then pulled to the ground.) Here is another angle of the red-haired woman (at 00:29), showing police throw her to the ground HARD (unfortunately video is very dark).
It was a chaotic scene, but there WERE instances of excessive force/brutality enacted by police including throwing flash grenades into a dense crowd (imagine if one of those had gone off in someone's face?).
And that guy in the santa hat is RIDICULOUS. Gotta wonder: provocateur?
46
@41
Yes, the military problem is a very old one in anarchist theory; not just defense against external states (which presumably wouldn't exist, in end-state anarchist society) but also against internal groups that might adopt organized violence in opposition to established society, or simply for their own advantage, e.g. religious cults, racist militias, street gangs, etc. The problem is how to structurally* prevent anarchism from devolving into warlordism.
"Economic advantage" is a bit more slippery; some anarchist thinkers just define the concept out of existence, while others, notably anarcho-capitalists, simply don't agree that a non-hierarchical society would be at any economic disadvantage.
* ideological assertions like "nobody will want to be a warlord, so it's not necessary" are not structural solutions.
Yes, the military problem is a very old one in anarchist theory; not just defense against external states (which presumably wouldn't exist, in end-state anarchist society) but also against internal groups that might adopt organized violence in opposition to established society, or simply for their own advantage, e.g. religious cults, racist militias, street gangs, etc. The problem is how to structurally* prevent anarchism from devolving into warlordism.
"Economic advantage" is a bit more slippery; some anarchist thinkers just define the concept out of existence, while others, notably anarcho-capitalists, simply don't agree that a non-hierarchical society would be at any economic disadvantage.
* ideological assertions like "nobody will want to be a warlord, so it's not necessary" are not structural solutions.
47
@45
Er, the fact that a piece of footage is not continuous does not mean it has been edited. These video cameras do have "stop" and "pause" buttons.
Granted, that doesn't mean the police didn't simply turn off the cameras during the various beatings, grenadings, horse-stompings, and ultraviolence they inflicted on protesters.
But dear lord, just look at all the cameras and smartphones in that crowd. It kind of beggars belief that the police could have beaten the crap out of anyone that day without footage from half a dozen different angles showing up on the internet.
Everyone who says the pigs were totally out of control at the port protest seems to agree that there's tons of footage on YouTube proving it. Does anyone have a link? Even a single link?
Er, the fact that a piece of footage is not continuous does not mean it has been edited. These video cameras do have "stop" and "pause" buttons.
Granted, that doesn't mean the police didn't simply turn off the cameras during the various beatings, grenadings, horse-stompings, and ultraviolence they inflicted on protesters.
But dear lord, just look at all the cameras and smartphones in that crowd. It kind of beggars belief that the police could have beaten the crap out of anyone that day without footage from half a dozen different angles showing up on the internet.
Everyone who says the pigs were totally out of control at the port protest seems to agree that there's tons of footage on YouTube proving it. Does anyone have a link? Even a single link?
48
@47 Yes, a camera may be turned off and on. And that is exactly right: The most important thing to remember about this video is that it WAS filmed by police. Which of course means that the police chose what to point the camera at, and when to stop and start the camera.
But watch the video at each of the time measures I noted. They occur when the camera is in motion and/or there is activity being filmed. ("Er",) Do YOU think that is a natural time to turn a camera off? What we're left with during that segment of the video is nothing more than a series of snippets.
SO WHY ARE THE POLICE (AND KELLY O) SELLING THIS VIDEO AS "UNCUT"?
And yes, there is video "out there" of examples of excessive force from that night.
"Does anyone have a link? Even a single link?"
I presented you with TWO such links in my last post. Please watch them.
There is more video still, that I remember seeing in the days after the event. I'm looking for them and I'll post them if I find them. Sadly there is no central video repository for these events, and what is on YouTube is not reliably labeled.
But watch the video at each of the time measures I noted. They occur when the camera is in motion and/or there is activity being filmed. ("Er",) Do YOU think that is a natural time to turn a camera off? What we're left with during that segment of the video is nothing more than a series of snippets.
SO WHY ARE THE POLICE (AND KELLY O) SELLING THIS VIDEO AS "UNCUT"?
And yes, there is video "out there" of examples of excessive force from that night.
"Does anyone have a link? Even a single link?"
I presented you with TWO such links in my last post. Please watch them.
There is more video still, that I remember seeing in the days after the event. I'm looking for them and I'll post them if I find them. Sadly there is no central video repository for these events, and what is on YouTube is not reliably labeled.
49
Whoops, that should say:
SO WHY ARE THE POLICE (AND ELI SANDERS) SELLING THIS VIDEO AS "UNCUT"?
Don't know where I got Kelly O's name from... guess I was looking at one of her posts earlier and had her name in my head.
SORRY KELLY O!!!
SO WHY ARE THE POLICE (AND ELI SANDERS) SELLING THIS VIDEO AS "UNCUT"?
Don't know where I got Kelly O's name from... guess I was looking at one of her posts earlier and had her name in my head.
SORRY KELLY O!!!
50
@48
Oh, yes, when a person decides to move from one location to another, I think that would certainly be a natural time to temporarily stop filming. Don't you?
The Stranger is presenting the video as uncut because there is no evidence at all that it has been edited. The police are presenting it as uncut because that's what they were legally required to provide under the FOIA request. And your paranoid* CAPS LOCK HYPERVENTILATING fails to provide any evidence of video tampering, I'm afraid.
You provided links to: 1) one video of crowds milling about calmly with some smoke in the background while two unharmed protesters were on the ground being arrested, 2) one video of protesters jumping in front of and onto an ordinary citizen's car, 3) one content-free video of local news fluff, and 4) one video that is apparently a much darker and murkier bit of footage of the confrontation with the female protester which was included in the edited version of the video originally supplied by the police in December (though yours does include some nice new verbal abuse of a police officer from a protester, thanks for that).
What we've been asking for is video footage of the alleged beatings, horse attacks, face grenades, and so on. You know, clear, unambiguous police brutality. Your links are definitely not what we've been asking for.
* what is it with OS participants who are convinced that all the cop-hate and pro-violence stuff is the work of "provocateurs", yet won't vote to disavow the sort of provocation these agents are supposedly fomenting?
Oh, yes, when a person decides to move from one location to another, I think that would certainly be a natural time to temporarily stop filming. Don't you?
The Stranger is presenting the video as uncut because there is no evidence at all that it has been edited. The police are presenting it as uncut because that's what they were legally required to provide under the FOIA request. And your paranoid* CAPS LOCK HYPERVENTILATING fails to provide any evidence of video tampering, I'm afraid.
You provided links to: 1) one video of crowds milling about calmly with some smoke in the background while two unharmed protesters were on the ground being arrested, 2) one video of protesters jumping in front of and onto an ordinary citizen's car, 3) one content-free video of local news fluff, and 4) one video that is apparently a much darker and murkier bit of footage of the confrontation with the female protester which was included in the edited version of the video originally supplied by the police in December (though yours does include some nice new verbal abuse of a police officer from a protester, thanks for that).
What we've been asking for is video footage of the alleged beatings, horse attacks, face grenades, and so on. You know, clear, unambiguous police brutality. Your links are definitely not what we've been asking for.
* what is it with OS participants who are convinced that all the cop-hate and pro-violence stuff is the work of "provocateurs", yet won't vote to disavow the sort of provocation these agents are supposedly fomenting?
51
@50 And why exactly should we believe the police, Eli Sanders, or least of all you, that this video is "uncut"? Where is your evidence that this video HASN'T been edited? If you can't prove that this video is "uncut", why claim that it is? Simply present it as "some footage provided to us by the police".
Whether fragmented by repeatedly turning the camera off and on, or by editing out segments of video at a later time, this video cannot be honestly described as "uncut". It is not a continuous stream of footage of the activity that night.
Hell, In the last few minutes of part 1 above, the snippets are 30 seconds or less, one as short as 10 seconds, conveniently missing the action with Helmiere.
What we're left with is all but worthless. Footage filmed by police, compiled by police, edited by police (No, I forgot, it wasn't edited -- IT WAS FILMED IN 10 SECOND CLIPS!) and with sound omitted by police, simply cannot be relied upon as an accurate depiction of events as they happened.
Yet what we DO see are flash grenades being thrown directly into dense crowds of people (in part 1 above starting at 14:10), pepper spray unloaded as if putting out a fire, horses charging dangerously close to people on the ground, police using bicycles as weapons to VIOLENTLY shove into the crowd, and open-handed strikes directly at people's faces (here is a clear view of that).
We also see the beginning moments of at least two instances of excessively forceful arrests. Fortunately both of the these instances were filmed (at least partially) by people from other vantage points.
In one instance a man (who is seen earlier holding his hands up in the air in a peaceful gesture) is shoved around by police, and then pulled backwards by his shirt to the ground. (In part I above at 13:30 & 22:30 and here at 1:25) This is Minister John Helmiere. We don't see what happens after that in the "uncut" police footage, but by Helmiere's account he was pinned to the ground while being punched in the side of the face. We do see footage of Helmiere shortly afterward telling one officer "I was struck violently many times" (in part 1 above at 16:00), and the markings on his face (at 0:09 here) seem to corroborate that claim.
In another instance, a woman is violently yanked forward BY HER HAIR, then thrown with great force into the asphalt. (In part 1 above at 13:00 and here at 0:25)
I don't know what else to say but that I am saddened if that does not meet YOUR standards for excessive force.
P.S. I had presented you with TWO links. Not zero. Not four. Two. One of the links mistakenly pointed to your "local news fluff" rather than the interview with Helmiere here (happens when you have a bunch of links open).
More...
Whether fragmented by repeatedly turning the camera off and on, or by editing out segments of video at a later time, this video cannot be honestly described as "uncut". It is not a continuous stream of footage of the activity that night.
Hell, In the last few minutes of part 1 above, the snippets are 30 seconds or less, one as short as 10 seconds, conveniently missing the action with Helmiere.
What we're left with is all but worthless. Footage filmed by police, compiled by police, edited by police (No, I forgot, it wasn't edited -- IT WAS FILMED IN 10 SECOND CLIPS!) and with sound omitted by police, simply cannot be relied upon as an accurate depiction of events as they happened.
Yet what we DO see are flash grenades being thrown directly into dense crowds of people (in part 1 above starting at 14:10), pepper spray unloaded as if putting out a fire, horses charging dangerously close to people on the ground, police using bicycles as weapons to VIOLENTLY shove into the crowd, and open-handed strikes directly at people's faces (here is a clear view of that).
We also see the beginning moments of at least two instances of excessively forceful arrests. Fortunately both of the these instances were filmed (at least partially) by people from other vantage points.
In one instance a man (who is seen earlier holding his hands up in the air in a peaceful gesture) is shoved around by police, and then pulled backwards by his shirt to the ground. (In part I above at 13:30 & 22:30 and here at 1:25) This is Minister John Helmiere. We don't see what happens after that in the "uncut" police footage, but by Helmiere's account he was pinned to the ground while being punched in the side of the face. We do see footage of Helmiere shortly afterward telling one officer "I was struck violently many times" (in part 1 above at 16:00), and the markings on his face (at 0:09 here) seem to corroborate that claim.
In another instance, a woman is violently yanked forward BY HER HAIR, then thrown with great force into the asphalt. (In part 1 above at 13:00 and here at 0:25)
I don't know what else to say but that I am saddened if that does not meet YOUR standards for excessive force.
P.S. I had presented you with TWO links. Not zero. Not four. Two. One of the links mistakenly pointed to your "local news fluff" rather than the interview with Helmiere here (happens when you have a bunch of links open).
52
Personally, my own memory of the events that day is much more along the lines of this video.
Did you all know that Geo of Blue Scholars was there? :D
Did you all know that Geo of Blue Scholars was there? :D
53
Surely the recent moves to go after banks was because people were so upset at Occupy! We certainly wouldn't be moving on foreclosure relief or talking about income inequality if it weren't for people being mad at Occupy! Port truckers wouldn't be rising up if they weren't mad at Occupy! And Longview wouldn't have made a landmark breakthrough in labor negotiations if it weren't for hating Occupy.
If nobody hated Occupy we'd still be talking about deficits and obamacare waivers. You haters are motivators. We're in ur head changin ur narratives.
If nobody hated Occupy we'd still be talking about deficits and obamacare waivers. You haters are motivators. We're in ur head changin ur narratives.
55
@53
I don't think anyone ever doubted that the committed core participants of Occupy thrive on opposition.
What remains to be seen is whether the general public — that other 99 percent — will be convinced, come spring, if what Occupy has decided is really needed then is more dressing up like the clown-bandito alliance, more cop baiting, more throwing of flares and debris, more trumped-up claims of police brutality, more refusals to disavow violence, more peaceful property damage, and more finger-pointing at shadowy "agents provocateurs" whenever anyone calls bullshit on any of it.
I don't think anyone ever doubted that the committed core participants of Occupy thrive on opposition.
What remains to be seen is whether the general public — that other 99 percent — will be convinced, come spring, if what Occupy has decided is really needed then is more dressing up like the clown-bandito alliance, more cop baiting, more throwing of flares and debris, more trumped-up claims of police brutality, more refusals to disavow violence, more peaceful property damage, and more finger-pointing at shadowy "agents provocateurs" whenever anyone calls bullshit on any of it.
57
@56
I think you mean this.
Did you notice that hoodie guy's friend in green is trying to pull hoodie guy's hands away from the cop, throughout the sequence?
Do you realize that to normal people, a single punch, shove, hair-pulling, or similar does not constitute "police brutality," particularly when the recipient is advancing on the cops, or actively resisting arrest?
When a non-violent protest has a clash with the police, it's far, far more likely to come off well on camera when everyone protesting has had enough training to stay disciplined in the use of non-resistance, non-aggression, and passive tactics planned in advance.
I think you mean this.
Did you notice that hoodie guy's friend in green is trying to pull hoodie guy's hands away from the cop, throughout the sequence?
Do you realize that to normal people, a single punch, shove, hair-pulling, or similar does not constitute "police brutality," particularly when the recipient is advancing on the cops, or actively resisting arrest?
When a non-violent protest has a clash with the police, it's far, far more likely to come off well on camera when everyone protesting has had enough training to stay disciplined in the use of non-resistance, non-aggression, and passive tactics planned in advance.
58
@57 "Do you realize that to normal people, a single punch, shove, hair-pulling, or similar does not constitute 'police brutality'[...]?"
Define "normal people" and show me your sources regarding whether or not a punch is or is not considered "police brutality." They sound pretty fucked up and entitled to me.
Also, for everyone who's inquired: Here's at least one video taken by an occupier at the port. There are probably dozens more, but frankly it's hard to track down really clear video of acts of explicit brutality in that chaotic of a setting. That doesn't mean it didn't *happen*; it was happening constantly. Getting in a vantage point to record it -- especially if you came with the intent to protest and support your friends -- is another matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKUM5EppK…
Define "normal people" and show me your sources regarding whether or not a punch is or is not considered "police brutality." They sound pretty fucked up and entitled to me.
Also, for everyone who's inquired: Here's at least one video taken by an occupier at the port. There are probably dozens more, but frankly it's hard to track down really clear video of acts of explicit brutality in that chaotic of a setting. That doesn't mean it didn't *happen*; it was happening constantly. Getting in a vantage point to record it -- especially if you came with the intent to protest and support your friends -- is another matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKUM5EppK…
59
@57
Thanks for that video:
at the 3:35 mark, there's a very good shot of the hoodies/goggles/bandannas contingent clearly and unambiguously stealing a wooden pallet, passing it over a fence behind the interviewer. It has a rather delightful Peter Sellers air to it.
at 4:15, there begin a series of shots showing protesters wearing "black bloc" costumes and carrying lit flares— not doing anything dangerous with them at this point, but there's no doubt the protesters are carrying flares.
at 5:38, a protester throws a sign at a police officer, and follows it up with verbal abuse
at 7:14, a flare is thrown
at 7:33, as mounted police move about doing nothing in particular, a protester starts shouting "animal abuse! animal abuse!" There's nothing wrong with this, of course, but it's pretty hilarious.
at 9:04 there's the sound of an explosion; no indication of what it was, or where it went off, but it does set off a new round of verbal abuse against the mounted police, who are still doing nothing in particular, other than calming horses, which were a bit startled by the explosion.
Do you think you could provide some timestamps where we can see clear evidence of police brutality? Since you don't seem to have any interest in looking up the term, it refers to the police use of "excessive force," which has an established legal meaning, as opposed to "reasonable force," which also has an established meaning in court, and which is perfectly legal.
For examples of police brutality, see here, here (obtained, incidentally, under the Washington State Open Records Act), or here. Note that all of the victims are non-aggressive, non-resisting, and helpless when the police apply force.
By "normal people" I of course mean people who understand that the police are, in fact, authorized to use force, and to people who are not politically inclined to deny any distinction between reasonable and excessive force.
As for "entitled", that's a matter of personal opinion, of course, but I think it does rather accurately describe people who feel it is their right to physically attack police officers, and also to cry "police brutality" if the cops so much as lay a finger on them during the confrontation.
More...
Thanks for that video:
at the 3:35 mark, there's a very good shot of the hoodies/goggles/bandannas contingent clearly and unambiguously stealing a wooden pallet, passing it over a fence behind the interviewer. It has a rather delightful Peter Sellers air to it.
at 4:15, there begin a series of shots showing protesters wearing "black bloc" costumes and carrying lit flares— not doing anything dangerous with them at this point, but there's no doubt the protesters are carrying flares.
at 5:38, a protester throws a sign at a police officer, and follows it up with verbal abuse
at 7:14, a flare is thrown
at 7:33, as mounted police move about doing nothing in particular, a protester starts shouting "animal abuse! animal abuse!" There's nothing wrong with this, of course, but it's pretty hilarious.
at 9:04 there's the sound of an explosion; no indication of what it was, or where it went off, but it does set off a new round of verbal abuse against the mounted police, who are still doing nothing in particular, other than calming horses, which were a bit startled by the explosion.
Do you think you could provide some timestamps where we can see clear evidence of police brutality? Since you don't seem to have any interest in looking up the term, it refers to the police use of "excessive force," which has an established legal meaning, as opposed to "reasonable force," which also has an established meaning in court, and which is perfectly legal.
For examples of police brutality, see here, here (obtained, incidentally, under the Washington State Open Records Act), or here. Note that all of the victims are non-aggressive, non-resisting, and helpless when the police apply force.
By "normal people" I of course mean people who understand that the police are, in fact, authorized to use force, and to people who are not politically inclined to deny any distinction between reasonable and excessive force.
As for "entitled", that's a matter of personal opinion, of course, but I think it does rather accurately describe people who feel it is their right to physically attack police officers, and also to cry "police brutality" if the cops so much as lay a finger on them during the confrontation.
61
This is Athens two days ago,http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1… the police have run out of tear gas, hell most of the police have left the streets and are pretending they are civilians. Over a dozen multistory office buildings were torched this weekend. If you want a reality check about what real street fighting looks like, do a quick search of news from the capitols of Europe this weekend.
This back and forth over "is it police brutality?" or "are the protesters really non-violent?" is really not the point, and I wish people would just get over the fact that police are just tools, blunt instruments really, used to assert randomly enforced rules that support the ruling elites. If there were a working justice system hedge fund managers would be perp walked to court in front of news cameras every week. Instead we get demonstrators that block traffic, shout naughty words and occasionally do some chickenshit window breaking or throwing water bottles at cops in turtle suits. This makes the news and is the subject of all this controversy? Do you realize that Europe is burning? That these financial events are about to hit our own economy?
This back and forth over "is it police brutality?" or "are the protesters really non-violent?" is really not the point, and I wish people would just get over the fact that police are just tools, blunt instruments really, used to assert randomly enforced rules that support the ruling elites. If there were a working justice system hedge fund managers would be perp walked to court in front of news cameras every week. Instead we get demonstrators that block traffic, shout naughty words and occasionally do some chickenshit window breaking or throwing water bottles at cops in turtle suits. This makes the news and is the subject of all this controversy? Do you realize that Europe is burning? That these financial events are about to hit our own economy?
62
@61
I'm entirely in agreement that the US is not Greece.
I would like to see you, too, "get over the fact that police are just tools [...] that support the ruling elites." And also perhaps to get over the fact that some people don't see the police that way at all, or perhaps see the "tools of the elites" aspect as only part of what the police are, and do. Get over it!
"Europe" is for the most part not burning at all; a few dozen buildings in one city in one country burned for one evening. It sure made for some great television, though, didn't it?
It would be much more exciting, of course, if there really were a revolution underway across Europe, but there isn't, and a bit of pretty, decorative fire behind the black-and-red flags doesn't magically radicalize average Greeks, or the European Public*. Greece hasn't even repealed the austerity vote!
And of course, if a revolution were actually happening in Europe, then it would be even more exciting if it were about to spread to America, via unspecified "financial events," presumably much nastier than the enormous ones that took place right inside the US in 2007 and 2008 without sparking even the smallest, most playful urban arson spree.
* if you're inclined to believe in such a creature; this would put you in the company of a few EMU-supporting economists, and an awful lot of Americans who lazily assume Europe is a single culture with only minor variations in internal politics across geography.
I'm entirely in agreement that the US is not Greece.
I would like to see you, too, "get over the fact that police are just tools [...] that support the ruling elites." And also perhaps to get over the fact that some people don't see the police that way at all, or perhaps see the "tools of the elites" aspect as only part of what the police are, and do. Get over it!
"Europe" is for the most part not burning at all; a few dozen buildings in one city in one country burned for one evening. It sure made for some great television, though, didn't it?
It would be much more exciting, of course, if there really were a revolution underway across Europe, but there isn't, and a bit of pretty, decorative fire behind the black-and-red flags doesn't magically radicalize average Greeks, or the European Public*. Greece hasn't even repealed the austerity vote!
And of course, if a revolution were actually happening in Europe, then it would be even more exciting if it were about to spread to America, via unspecified "financial events," presumably much nastier than the enormous ones that took place right inside the US in 2007 and 2008 without sparking even the smallest, most playful urban arson spree.
* if you're inclined to believe in such a creature; this would put you in the company of a few EMU-supporting economists, and an awful lot of Americans who lazily assume Europe is a single culture with only minor variations in internal politics across geography.
63
Ok this is what I see happening in Greece; http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/02/a… This is not a revolution, this is a collapse of a financial system followed by general chaos and arson (42 buildings torched in the capital alone since saturday) It you want specifics, really, read this blog, it's full of them. This is what austerity looks like, I don't care what the Greek parliament has repealed or allowed, this plan has been repeated in Portugal, Spain and soon the real powder keg, Italy.
What we are seeing here in Seattle is a microcosm of what is going on now in Greece. When disenfranchised people loose all sense of order and rationality; block streets, throw things at police, get pissed off. Action=Reaction. It's just physics. I don't blame cops or protestors for whats happening.
Blockades of transportation hubs are a natural result of too many poor people and not enough rich people. I'm sorry this fact of economics can't be printed on a t-shirt for all to see and understand, do you think all those people in Athens picked out the "right" highrise to loot and set on fire? The fact of the matter is that homeless legions in the '30s didn't form committees and raise a demands list that sparked media attention thus forcing FDR to implement New Deal policies. They build Hooverviles on the tide flats of South Seattle, starved and suffered in the millions, forcing the financial elites of their day to find a way to get them back to work and society functioning again. It isn't Occupy Seattle's fault that our way of life is not sustainable and needs changing, they are a mob, not a think tank. It's also not the cops fault that all they have are stun guns and horses to solve this problem, I bet they would love to get back to intervening in domestic violence calls and investigating homicides. Like every craftsman knows; right tool for the right job. Put economists to work on this problem, not Occupy Seattle.
More...
What we are seeing here in Seattle is a microcosm of what is going on now in Greece. When disenfranchised people loose all sense of order and rationality; block streets, throw things at police, get pissed off. Action=Reaction. It's just physics. I don't blame cops or protestors for whats happening.
Blockades of transportation hubs are a natural result of too many poor people and not enough rich people. I'm sorry this fact of economics can't be printed on a t-shirt for all to see and understand, do you think all those people in Athens picked out the "right" highrise to loot and set on fire? The fact of the matter is that homeless legions in the '30s didn't form committees and raise a demands list that sparked media attention thus forcing FDR to implement New Deal policies. They build Hooverviles on the tide flats of South Seattle, starved and suffered in the millions, forcing the financial elites of their day to find a way to get them back to work and society functioning again. It isn't Occupy Seattle's fault that our way of life is not sustainable and needs changing, they are a mob, not a think tank. It's also not the cops fault that all they have are stun guns and horses to solve this problem, I bet they would love to get back to intervening in domestic violence calls and investigating homicides. Like every craftsman knows; right tool for the right job. Put economists to work on this problem, not Occupy Seattle.
64
I do read the papers, you know. Linking to a far-left web site's spin on the news doesn't change what's actually happening in Greece.
Our way of life is, in fact, sustainable. It's not fair, of course, in all too many ways, but it is sustainable. It has sustained right through plenty of troughs in the economic cycle, and it has sustained through many would-be revolutionary enclaves of left-radicals telling themselves they're breaking shit and starting fires on behalf of "the people."
You're quite right to note that whatever we have left of the New Deal was implemented not by agitators in the streets overthrowing the government and replacing it with supermajority-consensus direct democracy, but rather by elected officials working within the existing system.
The difference between a shantytown and a protest occupation is that if you bust up a shantytown, none of the people you roust are going to have homes to return to. And the reason our actual shantytowns (e.g. Nicklesville) are so much smaller than the ones in Hoover's day is that we still have a somewhat functional system of social welfare programs that didn't exist at all back then, and were put in place precisely to keep the disenfranchised warm, dry, fed, and maybe a little drunk. You can thank FDR for a lot of that; the rest of the credit should probably go to whoever invented Xbox, 7-11, and the waterpipe.
Our way of life is, in fact, sustainable. It's not fair, of course, in all too many ways, but it is sustainable. It has sustained right through plenty of troughs in the economic cycle, and it has sustained through many would-be revolutionary enclaves of left-radicals telling themselves they're breaking shit and starting fires on behalf of "the people."
You're quite right to note that whatever we have left of the New Deal was implemented not by agitators in the streets overthrowing the government and replacing it with supermajority-consensus direct democracy, but rather by elected officials working within the existing system.
The difference between a shantytown and a protest occupation is that if you bust up a shantytown, none of the people you roust are going to have homes to return to. And the reason our actual shantytowns (e.g. Nicklesville) are so much smaller than the ones in Hoover's day is that we still have a somewhat functional system of social welfare programs that didn't exist at all back then, and were put in place precisely to keep the disenfranchised warm, dry, fed, and maybe a little drunk. You can thank FDR for a lot of that; the rest of the credit should probably go to whoever invented Xbox, 7-11, and the waterpipe.
65
I'm gonna put reading the newspapers to inform opinions about current economic problems in the same category with xbox, 7-11 and waterpipes. My own dire predictions about sustainability stem from watching commodity prices go up and my own wages stay flat; multiply that X 10 and you get Egypt.
Cheap, domestic resources like oil pulled us out of the last depression- kinda tapped that one pretty hard. If you've been to Olympia lately you'll notice those safety nets keeping black bloc kids glued to world of Warcraft and collecting food stamps are going away, leaving them with a lot more time on their hands. You'll find your self searching out a super-majority consensus based group to belong to when that shoe drops.
Cheap, domestic resources like oil pulled us out of the last depression- kinda tapped that one pretty hard. If you've been to Olympia lately you'll notice those safety nets keeping black bloc kids glued to world of Warcraft and collecting food stamps are going away, leaving them with a lot more time on their hands. You'll find your self searching out a super-majority consensus based group to belong to when that shoe drops.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Portland Voters Are Stoopid by Goldy
-
An I-5 Bridge Over the Skagit River Has Collapsed by Paul Constant
-
Why They Break Windows by Unpaid Intern
-
Usually When I'm Sent a Photoshopped Image of a Gun Pointed At Me... by Dan Savage
-
Did You Steal Our Unpaid Intern's Camera? by Goldy
-
The Only Thing More Tragic than a Bridge Collapse Would Be a 10 Cent a Gallon Increase in the Gas Tax by Goldy
-
Tornado Truthers by Dan Savage
-
Star Trek Releases Deleted Scene of Benedict Cumberbatch Showering to Counter Claims of Sexism by Cienna Madrid
-
Boy Scouts Lift Ban on Gay Members by Paul Constant
-
SL Letter of the Day: Not A Prude... And Not Just Not That... by Dan Savage
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (65) RSS