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Sunday, March 4, 2012

Who Will Speak Up for the Poor Brainwashed Women Who Have Been Lead to Believe That Their Bodies Are... Theirs?

Posted by on Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 2:02 PM

Consider my email inbox. Consider the letters that pour in daily. Consider how difficult it must be for someone—anyone—to write something—anything—that makes my jaw drop open. So congrats to Pastor Joshua Genig of Atlanta's Lutheran Church of the Ascension, who nearly caused me to shatter my jaw on my laptop just now. Pastor Genig had wrote this in a post at First Things:

Who is speaking up for the mothers who, under HHS mandate, have been falsely coerced into feeling that to be a woman means to have “control” of their own bodies?

One little HHS mandate was all it took to "falsely" coerce women into believing that they're not really women if they don't have control over their own bodies. Such impressionable creatures! So easily lead astray! Someone needs to explain to these confused women that the bodies of real women are controlled by Rush Limbaugh, Rick Santorum, Bayer Aspirin, Roy Blunt, Pastor Genig, any resident zygotes, and those child-rape-enabling paragons of virtue over at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. (Via Sullivan.)

Hey, look! It's Pastor Genig's email address: prgenig@ascension-lcms.com. And, hey! Atlanta's Lutheran Church of the Ascension is on a Facebook! So modern!

 

Comments (102) RSS

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nellodee 1
Jaw. Dropped.
Posted by nellodee http://nellodee.wordpress.com/ on March 4, 2012 at 2:10 PM · Report this
2
That Facebook link appears to go to an outdated page for this church. It directs you here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/13663909…
Posted by DizzyLizzy on March 4, 2012 at 2:14 PM · Report this
3
I love how he chides Obama for "passing judgment" on other people. Speck-log-eye moment if I ever saw one.
Posted by EricaP on March 4, 2012 at 2:15 PM · Report this
4
Their current Facebook page seems to be here:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lutheran-…
Posted by aiff on March 4, 2012 at 2:17 PM · Report this
5
Wouldn't the correct quote be from Mark 12:17?
"And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him."

Which, traditionally, has been interpreted as "pay your taxes". I see no reason why that would not also include the requirement to pay for the health insurance the government requires you to provide for your employees.

Since your soul belongs to God, you do not have to USE the services that you are paying the government to provide if that would conflict with your religion.

But you still must pay what the government requires.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on March 4, 2012 at 2:18 PM · Report this
6
How can you even have a reasoned discussion with someone like that? I really try to take the tact of to each his own, but people like this...they need their own country or something. Somewhere far away from me.
Posted by sisyphusgal on March 4, 2012 at 2:32 PM · Report this
kim in portland 7
The GOP's religious fanatics are all for small government, except between a woman's legs. I don't need either the government or some company CEO imposing their religious ideology coming between me and my doctor.

Perhaps I should write Pastor Genig and invite him to discuss how offensive it is that impotent men can't accept the will of God in their lives? If God wanted them to be having sex they'd be able to get it up by his grace. Instead they refuse his blessing and ignore his will with Cialis and Viagra. They should be accepting their lack of errection as sharing in the suffering of Christ. They aren't submitting to God's will and are setting a poor example.

Why is knowing that these individuals get their knickers in a twist over my ability to have non procreative sex, such a turn on?
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on March 4, 2012 at 2:32 PM · Report this
8
Missouri Synod is fucking nuts. ELCA would never stand for this kind of crazy shit.
Posted by Nic in Greenlake on March 4, 2012 at 2:40 PM · Report this
Vince 9
Women are going to have a very clear choice this November.
Posted by Vince on March 4, 2012 at 2:40 PM · Report this
10
@8 beat me to it. Yeah. The LCMS does tend to be completely insane.

The ELCA, on the other hand, covers voluntary abortion in their clergy health plan...
Posted by Sheryl on March 4, 2012 at 2:44 PM · Report this
Ratatoskr 11
I'm not a mother, does that mean I can still feel like I have control over my lady-body?

Then again, if these chucklefucks got their way I wouldn't be allowed any access to birth control pills so I would already be a mother!

(but maybe the Lutherans wouldn't want me to breed...I'd be having filthy Jew-babies with my filthy-Jew boyfriend that would pop out of my sinful not-one-drop-failing ladybits. And those Lutherans really, really, really do hate the Jews...)
Posted by Ratatoskr on March 4, 2012 at 2:48 PM · Report this
12
@11 - Speaking as a Lutheran, your last statement is not true. Yes, Martin Luther wrote several anti-Semitic screeds. The contemporary Lutheran Church, at least the moderate-to-progressive arms of it, repudiates those documents of Luther's. You will never hear an ELCA pastor, and probably never hear even an LCMS or WELS pastor, preach on or teach "On the Jews and Their Lies, That Jesus Christ was Born a Jew, or On the Holy Name and the Lineage of Christ.

Luther may be a revered figure in our denomination, but he was hardly perfect. While he spoke so eloquently about God's love and grace, his anti-semetism was just downright vile.
Posted by Sheryl on March 4, 2012 at 2:57 PM · Report this
13
Just to play devil's advocate, it's possible that he was not contrasting a woman's control of her own body with handing that control over to other people. He may have meant that women should not necessarily try to control their bodies and instead let their bodies control themselves.

Which is still an utter shite argument because nobody is trying to force women to take birth control or get abortions. Women who choose to let their bodies control themselves have always had that option and no one has ever suggested taking it away.

But looking at his statement that way transforms it from jaw-dropping to merely "bad."
Posted by JPT on March 4, 2012 at 3:10 PM · Report this
rob! 14
Though a cliché, it cannot be said enough: Why don't people like Rick Santorum and Joshua Genig combine forces with the Taliban? It's the same bloody god—christianity, islam, and judaism are all branches of the same gnarled tree.
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on March 4, 2012 at 3:12 PM · Report this
15
Led, not lead (X2)
Posted by cheakamus on March 4, 2012 at 3:12 PM · Report this
16
I can't wait for the end of the dominance of everyone's belief systems in the public sphere. Yes, I hold out for this in the next 1000 years. I don't like most people, I don't want to know what idiocy is ramblin' round in that there brain of yers, and I certainly don't need it in policy discourse. Keep that to yourself, please. Fuck.
Posted by barfy cute on March 4, 2012 at 3:20 PM · Report this
Griffin 17
Scarier still are the plenitude of comments on the post that are in agreement. I'm as much Lutheran (ELCA) as Dan is Catholic, and it's shit like this why there are multiple flavors of Lutheranism.

These are the same people in the same ideology of a century ago, who believed that vaccinations interfered with God's will as to who would live and die. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now. And most of their parishioners know it, given by how small their families are.
Posted by Griffin on March 4, 2012 at 3:28 PM · Report this
Ratatoskr 18
@12 I've known many people (including a branch of my own family) that had to leave the Lutheran church because they kept on running into open anti-semitism at different Lutheran congregations in different parts of the US. Maybe it was conservative Lutheran churches though. Doesn't stop me from thinking Luther was an A-class asshole and being suspicious of his church.

But I'm suspicious of pretty much all Christian churches' views on the Jews, openly anti-semitic or not, because I know my history and had the shitty experience of growing up in a heavily Christian area with a "Jewish-sounding" last name.

Posted by Ratatoskr on March 4, 2012 at 3:29 PM · Report this
stirwise 19
@13: I think you're being far too generous. I believe he's referring to the notion that we shouldn't endeavor to control our own bodies, but to let God control them. For men, that means that they can act as they believe God wills them to, for women it means that they are to allow God to control their bodies through His earthly workers: men. The Christian Patriarchy belief structure is pretty clear that God has power over us all, to which we must submit totally, and that women must submit to their fathers and husbands as they would to God, as men are the closest thing to God that women have access to.
Posted by stirwise on March 4, 2012 at 3:30 PM · Report this
20
If a god's will can be bested by a pill, it doesn't seem like that god would be worth worshiping.
Posted by dirge on March 4, 2012 at 3:45 PM · Report this
21
Spam, spam, spam, spam!

Pornographic spam, if I have anything to type about it.
Posted by blah on March 4, 2012 at 3:51 PM · Report this
22
Hey, hey! Blocked after 3 wall posts. New record.

Only took suggesting Pastor Genig has womb envy.
Posted by blah on March 4, 2012 at 3:56 PM · Report this
23
@14

What you've got there is two companies with similar products and a longstanding rivalry going after the same customer base. It shouldn't be at all surprising that they're working on things like brand loyalty and vendor lock-in, rather than trying to negotiate a merger.
Posted by robotslave on March 4, 2012 at 3:58 PM · Report this
24
@23 The fact that different types of religious wack jobs don't always get along with each other is good news for folks of the not-crazy persuasion.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on March 4, 2012 at 4:33 PM · Report this
Cato the Younger Younger 25
they are keeping their facebook page "clean" of anything disagreeable.
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on March 4, 2012 at 4:34 PM · Report this
26
Emailed and commented on the website. With polite rage.
Posted by thejessicall on March 4, 2012 at 4:42 PM · Report this
27
Emailed and commented on the article, though the website moderates the comments before allowing them to show up.

Facebook messages might be better than posting on the wall if they're censoring that as well.
Posted by thejessicall on March 4, 2012 at 4:46 PM · Report this
eastcoastreader 28
haha! silly me! I thought having control over my body made me a human being, but as a woman, I guess I'm not entitled to the status of human being!
Posted by eastcoastreader on March 4, 2012 at 4:49 PM · Report this
Keekee 29
Huh. I was just on their FB page & commented on the post & now when I went back, the whole post has been deleted.
Posted by Keekee on March 4, 2012 at 5:07 PM · Report this
30
@28 He did put 'control' in quotation marks. Pastor G would probably say he does support a women's right to choose whether or not she becomes a mother. If she doesn't want babies she should abstain from sexual intercourse. The core philosophy of people like this guy and Senator Frothy is that sex of the non-baby making variety is BAD.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on March 4, 2012 at 5:07 PM · Report this
31
I tried to make a comment on the link they posted to the article... And as a hit comment, they pulled the whole thing! They have some very wary watchdogs.
Posted by Mer-Mer on March 4, 2012 at 5:11 PM · Report this
32
I note that women "feel" rather than "know" or "think". Because this is just about their feelings.
Posted by JMC-Texas on March 4, 2012 at 5:23 PM · Report this
33
I just posted the following: If your argument is so weak that you need to legislate your view of women's health care, you may want to rethink it. You've already likely lost said argument and might want to engage in some humble learning and listening. Good luck.

Ok, not my crispest, but I posted it, drove my daughter to class and it was gone by the time I returned. Then again, Missouri Synod is the Lutheran church's nasty, racist, homophobic cousin. I'd expect nothing less from them.
Posted by jt on March 4, 2012 at 5:36 PM · Report this
BritishRichard 34
On it, consider this flying monkey unleashed also this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/91214…

They don't do themselves any favours do they?
Posted by BritishRichard on March 4, 2012 at 5:45 PM · Report this
Womyn2me 35
@6, there is a country that thinks just like this pastor. It's called Saudi Arabia. Different religion, mind you, same thought process.
Posted by Womyn2me http://http:\\www.shelleyandlaura.com on March 4, 2012 at 5:54 PM · Report this
in vino veritas 36
is it wrong if I find the guy hot?
Posted by in vino veritas on March 4, 2012 at 6:01 PM · Report this
BritishRichard 37
@35 He probably couldn't cope with the alcohol ban there. I mean seriously there is no way a sober, rational person made those comments. I'm guessing he's drank his dick away at some point; couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Anyway. Promise I'm not hijacking but please all you colonials, help the old country out and condemn this old bigoted f*&cker:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/91214…

Posted by BritishRichard on March 4, 2012 at 6:03 PM · Report this
38
@11 you reminded me of a joke:
A nun is making her rounds in a local hospital. She sits down with a man and asks him if he's healing (which he is) and then starts to talk to him about his life.
"Are you married?"
"Yes, I am," he says.
"And do you have children?"
"6," he says proudly.
"Oh, what a good Catholic you are! You took God's words to heart and were fruitful and multiplied!"
"Actually, Sister, I'm Jewish."
"DIRTY SEX MANIAC!"

As for the rest of the nonsense, I'm not touching it. That's just crazy shit. Although, gotta say, I'd love me some of whatever that idiot is smokin'.
Posted by ThetaSigma on March 4, 2012 at 6:20 PM · Report this
39
How silly of me to think that as a woman in the 21st century I would actually have control over my own body!? Thank goodness there are smart, wise, and "godly" men like Pastor G to make those oh-so-important reproductive decisions for me! I'm sure he and all the other wise men out there know what's best for me, even though none of them have met me or know anything about my health and possible reproductive needs.

Did I wake up in the Dark Ages? Wow!
Posted by SherBee on March 4, 2012 at 6:40 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 40
@ 37, I've not known sobriety to be a measure of one's rationality.
Posted by Matt from Denver on March 4, 2012 at 7:01 PM · Report this
Birdie 41
Dear Dan (and just about everybody else on the Interwebs),

The past tense of "lead" is "led." Better change that headline. :)

Thank you,

Ms. Grammarian
Posted by Birdie on March 4, 2012 at 7:08 PM · Report this
balderdash 42
Just because they rarely say this shit openly doesn't mean they don't believe it any more - and by "they" I mean many so-called "moderate" conservatives in the modern US; and by "it" I mean their continuing refusal to accept that women are people too. "It all started to go wrong when we gave 'em the vote" is not an uncommon thing to hear outside of the big cities, you know.
Posted by balderdash http://introverse.blogspot.com on March 4, 2012 at 7:53 PM · Report this
43
Yeah, the voting decision is pretty straightforward this way. I've heard guys express that this is a trivial issue and people are letting this sex thing distract from the real issues. This is NOT trivial. The economy will recover eventually and the overall effect on me will be important, yeah, but not nearly as important as it will be if I am forced to carry an infant to term that I don't want, because I couldn't get birth control and then couldn't get an abortion. The economy isn't nearly as important as me having to adopt or otherwise take care of an otherwise undesired child of my daughter's. Or son's. The impact of limiting access to birth control is HUGE! It directly impacts my life far more than war, compulsory draft, economic hardship, unemployment, bird flu or any number of terrorists.

The single most important issue on the ballot, for me, is easy access to birth control. If the Republicans want to stand against that, then they've essentially cast my vote for the other party.
Posted by Gamebird on March 4, 2012 at 7:59 PM · Report this
GhostDog 44
Obviously women control their own bodies. If they didn't then they would have shipped me a variety of regional sweets before telling the closest conservative what for.

But unfortunately my "Fem-Control-O-Ray" Doesn't seem to be working. This is especially sad as I really would like to see what dessert is in northern Washinton.
Posted by GhostDog on March 4, 2012 at 8:06 PM · Report this
seandr 45
I don't see how you can win a national election if your platform is blatantly insulting to 51% of the population.
Posted by seandr on March 4, 2012 at 8:09 PM · Report this
46
@ 35 You beat me to it! Every time I hear these people, I think, They want a Saudi Arabia right here. Women can't drive and they have to stay home their entire lives, a fundamentalist monarchy rules the land in conjunction with an orthodox church, there are no civil or human rights, and they're drilling for oil everywhere. Perfect! They should be our allies!
Posted by floater on March 4, 2012 at 8:16 PM · Report this
Knat 47
The First Amendment's church-state separation apparently only matters when they feel the state is mandating something they should control (namely, the private workings of all lady-parts). But of course their increasingly intrusive grasps into politics (helping draft legislation, preaching to the faithful whom to vote for from their pulpits) doesn't count somehow.
Posted by Knat on March 4, 2012 at 8:20 PM · Report this
48
@45 Marx would blame false consciousness. I would blame an ancient electorate. In either case relevant stakeholders - here, women - don't recognize their own interests (even old women have young relatives who face this issue). Have you ever read stories from abortion providers about women who protest clinics one week and then waltz in the next, expecting abortions? They're a trip.
Posted by sahara29 on March 4, 2012 at 8:39 PM · Report this
49
@41: You call yourself "Ms. Grammarian" and you let this one slip by???

Pastor Genig had wrote...

Posted by bigyaz on March 4, 2012 at 8:49 PM · Report this
seandr 50
@48: True, a lot of (conservative) women vote against their interests. Still, it's hard to imagine that Limbaugh's commentary was especially well received even among that crowd.

When you consider this in the context of the ultrasound legislation in Virginia, the Komen debacle, Santorum's rant against birth control, the "aspirin between the legs" comment, and I'm probably missing some others, I think conservatives have crossed the line for many of their own womenfolk.

Posted by seandr on March 4, 2012 at 9:41 PM · Report this
Supreme Ruler Of The Universe 51

Truth be told...

Catholic women rally against contraception mandate

A 29 year-old mother of two, Uebbing said that birth control teaches women that their natural fertility is something that needs to be reduced in order to “level the playing field” with men.

“We were told, with the advent of the birth control pill, that we might at last grasp and achieve 'equality' with men,” something that fertility and childbearing had somehow “denied us.”


http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/c…

So, there is an actual woman speaking about the issue (something I rarely find in SLOG).

For myself, I'm waiting for the Japanese to make affordable female robots that are at least 60% of the real thing. Then we guys can stay in our garages trade fembot parts. Like real men.
Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe http://www.you-read-it-here-first.com on March 4, 2012 at 9:51 PM · Report this
MythicFox 52
I once successfully had an email conversation with the Timecube guy. There was an attempt, on my part, of serious discussion and dialogue to sort of feel the guy out that was met with, well... you've been to his site. You can probably guess.

I am not desperate enough to try to address these people. They are too crazy. And this from someone who took on the Timecube guy for the heck of it.
Posted by MythicFox on March 5, 2012 at 12:30 AM · Report this
seatackled 53
@50

Apparently there are a number of high school girls saying their mothers received Limbaugh's comments pretty well.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/04…
Posted by seatackled on March 5, 2012 at 12:55 AM · Report this
seatackled 54
Franken talking to Tom Snyder on Limbaugh. Worth a look, but about 8 minutes long.

http://crooksandliars.com/bluegal-aka-fr…
Posted by seatackled on March 5, 2012 at 1:04 AM · Report this
venomlash 55
@52: WHY
Posted by venomlash on March 5, 2012 at 1:13 AM · Report this
56
@51 One of the women is 29 and has two children. She claims to be against contraception. I am going to go right out and call her a lying liar who lies. She simply won't own up to using birth control, to the point, where she's trying to deny it to other women as part of her denial. Either that or she's married to a closet case, who was happy to only sleep with her to knock her up twice.
Posted by Adacia on March 5, 2012 at 1:52 AM · Report this
57
I find this whole "war on birth control" kinda funny, cause here in Sweden we almost have the opposite problem; when I tell people that I don't want to put any more hormones into my body then it produces on its own, people look at me like I'm crazy. I have never been on the pill, had an IU, injections or any kind of hormone birth control and I never will, and here that's very rare for a woman my age (25). People always think that the freedom to choose will make everything better, but just because you can choose, it doesn't mean society won't punish you for choosing "wrong". We humans sure do like our conformity.
Posted by Friendstastegood on March 5, 2012 at 2:23 AM · Report this
58
Let see, the Republicans are against contraception, they want gays back in the closet, and both the Weekly Standard and Mitt Romney's son are busy worrying about hippies. What century are we in, exactly?
Posted by Clayton on March 5, 2012 at 5:18 AM · Report this
59
@19 (stirwise) - you articulated the theological perspective on this very well. It is the "woman must submit to man as the Church submits to God" foundation that is most chilling about comments like these.
Posted by MemeGene on March 5, 2012 at 5:27 AM · Report this
60
Has it always been like this? I've always kept a close watch on the news, and I just don't feel like there has ever been a time during my adulthood (I'm 35) when women's rights were so up for debate. I feel very threatened by the current political environment. To have someone suggest that I don't have the right to be in control of my own body and to have that assertion accepted by a large audience is terrifying to me.

It makes me want to move to Montana and form an all-female militia or something. If the Republicans win, that may be what I do:p
Posted by JrzWrld on March 5, 2012 at 6:35 AM · Report this
Canadian Nurse 61
@56: I used to belong to a church group where birth control was considered OK amongst married couples, but using natural family planning methods was considered particularly holy. Definitely knew couples who believed that fun spontaneity had no place in sex. You needed to have checked your temperatures and her cervical mucous before each time, so you were consciously having or not having babies. "Perfect use" of fertility awareness methods seems to have high effectiveness. It's just a depressing way to live out an intimate relationship.
Posted by Canadian Nurse on March 5, 2012 at 6:38 AM · Report this
62
Vis a vis the classic "Christ killer" meme,

The High priests that judged and condemned Jesus were, in my opinion, bureaucrats that fought to (successfully) maintain their entrenched hold on power in ruling the faith of the Jews. I find the similarity in the behavior of frothyman to be more of the same, but with the realm of Christian orthodoxy.

Peace.
Posted by Married in MA on March 5, 2012 at 6:53 AM · Report this
63
Dan, forgive me for being pedantic, but I think there's a misplaced "don't" in the first paragraph after the quote from Pastor Genig.

Shouldn't that read "One little HHS mandate was all it took to "falsely" coerce women into believing that they're not really women if they do have control over their own bodies"?
Posted by Lymis on March 5, 2012 at 7:09 AM · Report this
lauramae 64
Well, I was raised Catholic (not one now) and I remember the "women submit to your husbands as the church submits to Christ" thing being read at my sister's wedding. I was in the 7th grade. And I remember cringing about that. It was very much a part of my upbringing and CCD education that women are for babies and if you were to have a baby, it was because God/Christ wanted that for you. Birth control, whether it was the pill or condoms interfered with that and you were elevating yourself above God's will.

It freaked me out long before I was supposed to have a mind of my own. My sister and brother-in-law are very much into being active Catholics. I went because my mother made me. And it never took.

There is no question what so ever that pregnancy does affect you physically and does make it difficult to do the things that boys do. You know what else has that effect? Things like the effects of unbalanced hormones, fibroids and all other sorts of reproductive organ problems that lead to difficult and lengthy menstrual cycles. Things like birth control help with that too.

By the way, the Lutheran Church of the Missouri Synod has quite the interesting theological rationalization for outright fucking racism too. So...
Posted by lauramae on March 5, 2012 at 7:22 AM · Report this
65
@60 Better use of your organizational energy, with broader effect, would be to organize a real-life 21st Century Lysistrata-style women's strike/revolt. No sex for the straight men until this shit stops.

'Cause, you need to enlist the men, too, and nothing would get their attention faster than that.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader on March 5, 2012 at 7:30 AM · Report this
66
Sickeningly, he's right. In a sick, twisted way, he's absolutely right. Because one of the things I've had to accept about being a woman is that my body isn't really completely under my control. Why? Because my body is a political discussion, an object, only valuable till about age 45 or so when I am no longer in my sexual prime, and a potential baby vending machine.

What else is the female body? A fetish object for runways that is open to public discussion if you're too skinny or if god forbid, you put on 10 lbs. and are then considered a disgusting pig. Women's bodies are porn for the masses.

And don't even get me started on the Virgin Mary (as if there really was a virgin birth) and the modern day virginity pledges and the fucked-up way that religion reduces female sexual power to nothing. There are no goddesses in the bible and male power is the only viable power according to most religions.

So yeah, this piece of shit is correct. What woman is actually able to feel like she is in control of her body? When 1 in 4 women are raped (or molested) and the person most likely to murder you is your spouse or partner, there is no way to ever really feel "in control".

Not to mention that if you have an opinion or are intelligent, someone like Rush Limbaugh can easily silence you or degrade you by calling you a slut. Or if you dare to express yourself sexually, then you might as well put a scarlet letter on your chest.
Posted by Freaky Goddess on March 5, 2012 at 8:13 AM · Report this
67
@61, I don't understand this at all:

> You needed to have checked your temperatures and her cervical mucous before each time, so you were consciously having or not having babies. "Perfect use" of fertility awareness methods seems to have high effectiveness. It's just a depressing way to live out an intimate relationship. >

The woman checks her body signs in the morning; it's just something to remember like taking the pill. It is true that you know whether or not you're fertile, but so does everyone on the pill (= not fertile).

In what sense is FAM a depressing way to live out an intimate relationship? On the contrary, FAM is a crucial step for all women, at every stage past puberty, to understand their bodies.
Posted by EricaP on March 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM · Report this
68
(Or, well, every woman not on artificial hormones...)
Posted by EricaP on March 5, 2012 at 8:38 AM · Report this
69
Besides my outrage about these attacks on women's liberties, I really, really appreciate Dan drawing attention to these nut jobs, and providing email links, too. So thank you, Dan, for not allowing this bullshit to get swept aside.

Religious fanatics are empowered these days to speak in public what they've been preaching in church since the dawn of times, primarily because civic/political leaders don't call them out on it. They need to keep this shit in church. It's really offensive.
Posted by mitten on March 5, 2012 at 9:27 AM · Report this
70
@57

Why do you have to tell anyone what kind of birth control you are or aren't on? Unless it's your partner or healthcare provider, how is it anyone else's goddamn business?
Posted by chicago girl on March 5, 2012 at 10:42 AM · Report this
71
Ms Kim has the right idea. After all, this is not the Christian Old Testament in which men are meant to sire well beyond the century mark. It might even be considered a divine sign that the man in question is meant to stop receiving climaxes and concentrate exclusively on providing them. (I'd have said "start" providing them were I in a particularly dour mood.)
Posted by vennominon on March 5, 2012 at 11:24 AM · Report this
72
It took some creativity, but over the weekend, my husband and I figured out some sexual positions that work even with an aspirin between my knees. Thanks GOP, for the great non-procreating good times! Maybe next time we'll take pictures ;)
Posted by val97 on March 5, 2012 at 11:33 AM · Report this
Ophian 73
@ 35, 46

A year ago I was in a minor traffic accident [I backed into another vehicle at 10mph], as the other driver [a woman] and I were standing there exchanging insurance info, a man walking down the side walk says to me [as if she didn't have ears] "Well that's the good thing about Saudi Arabia." I didn't catch his meaning, and stared at him confusedly. He repeated what he had said, gestured to the woman and added, "Well there they don't let them behind the wheel you know."

But this is fucking Texas: parched, ugly and full of oil and fundies. All we need now are the camels.
Posted by Ophian on March 5, 2012 at 11:40 AM · Report this
Rob in Baltimore 74
Maybe women should have thought of that before they tricked men into eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good And Evil. (Although, I'm not sure how she would have known what she was doing was evil before eating from the tree, but never the less, all women everywhere must be punished forevermore!)

1 Timothy 2:11-15

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


Posted by Rob in Baltimore http://www.wishbookweb.com/ on March 5, 2012 at 11:51 AM · Report this
75
At first the most shocking thing to me was that it was from a Lutheran pastor. Most Lutherans aren't like that. Then I saw from the website that it was Missouri Synod--that's where all the cranky racist sexist Lutherans ended up when the Lutheran Church got too liberal for them. So it's not surprising when you consider the source. Missouri Synod is like the Lutheran Taliban.
Posted by Marrena on March 5, 2012 at 12:04 PM · Report this
76
Goddamit. I want to send an email but this makes me so angry that all I can think of to say is that I want to use this guy's spine as an ice-skating rink.
Posted by nokidsandthreemoney on March 5, 2012 at 12:15 PM · Report this
77
@72: Yeah when I first heard him say that I thought "Somebody should really tell that guy that doggy style works really well with the woman's leg together (aspirin optional) and the man's apart...Nah!"
Posted by chi_type on March 5, 2012 at 12:23 PM · Report this
furrygirl 78
"Who Will Speak Up for the Poor Brainwashed Women Who Have Been Lead to Believe That Their Bodies Are... Theirs?" --Every anti-sex worker feminist/liberal ever. I hear this one at least once a day, I don't know why it's shocking.
Posted by furrygirl http://www.feminisnt.com on March 5, 2012 at 12:28 PM · Report this
79
@77 We should start calling a hetero-sex position where the women keeps her knees pressed together while engaging in sexual intercourse as a 'Foster Friess.'
Posted by Ken Mehlman on March 5, 2012 at 12:34 PM · Report this
80
"Who is speaking up for the mothers who, under HHS mandate, have been falsely coerced into feeling that to be a woman means to have “control” of their own bodies?"

HHS mandate (as understood by emailer): All women have control of their own bodies. Therefore, If A doesn't have control over A's body, then A isn't a woman.

Does this "mean" a paralyzed person can't be a woman? Someone in bondage?
Posted by icapulet on March 5, 2012 at 12:39 PM · Report this
81
@79: Lol. But then a nice position would be tainted by a bigot who sounds like he's named after a Batman villain.
Posted by chi_type on March 5, 2012 at 12:39 PM · Report this
82
"Who is speaking up for the mothers who, under HHS mandate, have been falsely coerced into feeling that to be a woman means to have “control” of their own bodies?"

HHS mandate (as understood by emailer): All women have control of their own bodies. Therefore, If A doesn't have control over A's body, then A isn't a woman.

Does this "mean" a paralyzed person can't be a woman? Someone in bondage?
Posted by icapulet on March 5, 2012 at 12:40 PM · Report this
83
@68 (Erica) . . . or who doesn't have sex with men. :-)
Posted by clashfan on March 5, 2012 at 12:41 PM · Report this
84
I do believe that there are some arguments against abortion. I disagree with them, but there are a few valid points. The fact that women have brainwashed into thinking that they should be in control of themselves is not one of them. (Of course, I've also heard that abortion should be illegal because there aren't enough unwanted children in the world for couples to adopt, so I guess I'm not too shocked by this.)
Posted by doodle4395 on March 5, 2012 at 1:08 PM · Report this
stirwise 85
@57: You can get an IUD that doesn't have any hormones. You can also get one that has a very small amount of hormones that really only reaches the lining of your uterus and not much beyond. There are good non-hormonal modes of contraception out there, and you're definitely not crazy for not wanting to flood your body with hormones. Solidarity, sister!
Posted by stirwise on March 5, 2012 at 1:11 PM · Report this
86
@83, lesbians or asexuals who want to get pregnant should understand FAM...

So, to sum up, people who benefit from understanding fertility-awareness include:
- women who want to get pregnant, and
- women who have sex with men AND don't want to get pregnant AND don't use hormonal bc
Posted by EricaP on March 5, 2012 at 1:23 PM · Report this
87
I was raised extremely conservative Catholic, and I was taught that no human being -- man or woman -- "owns" his or her body. That body is actually God's body. You're just in it temporarily, like a small child put "in charge" of a great army by his indulgent king of a dad. The child isn't really in charge. God is.

C.S. Lewis sums it up in Mere Christianity thus: “Imagine yourself as a living house. God comes in to rebuild that house. At first, perhaps, you can understand what He is doing. He is getting the drains right and stopping the leaks in the roof and so on; you knew that those jobs needed doing and so you are not surprised. But presently He starts knocking the house about in a way that hurts abominably and does not seem to make any sense. What on earth is He up to? The explanation is that He is building quite a different house from the one you thought of - throwing out a new wing here, putting on an extra floor there, running up towers, making courtyards. You thought you were being made into a decent little cottage: but He is building a palace. He intends to come and live in it Himself."

It made sense to me at the time. And I still think that people who are well advanced on the path to a deep spiritual understanding of how their life fits into the Universe tend to have a joyful sense that we all belong to each other -- a sense that we are "for" each other, rather than just selfishly for our own selves.

However, that's not how it comes across. It comes across as, "You don't get to control your body. We will tell you what to do with your body."

Inasmuch as it serves to beat women down, tell them they're not good enough, and force compliance, rhetoric about not owning your own body is terrible and to be opposed.
Posted by dianasquiver on March 5, 2012 at 1:26 PM · Report this
88
All I know is the people I most want to utilize birth control are those who are most dead set against it. Bitter, bitter truth.
Posted by trejas on March 5, 2012 at 2:31 PM · Report this
89
@70 When discussing birth-control and abortion, it usually comes up one way or the other, also when discussing health issues with friends and such. I don't mind talking about personal stuff, even with strangers, as long as they don't judge or try to make me conform to their opinions.

@85 I know about non-hormonal IUDs, but they sometimes cause sterility (and I really, really want to have kids) and localized hormones but I'd rather skip it. Thanks for the solidarity :)
Posted by Friendstastegood on March 5, 2012 at 4:06 PM · Report this
90
@Friendstastegood -- so what do you rely on, for birth control? (If you don't mind me asking...)
Posted by EricaP on March 5, 2012 at 4:52 PM · Report this
91
I was confirmed by the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod in the spring of 1980. Ninety minutes of instruction every Wednesday night during the school year (so, summers off) from 4th grade until 8th. The only thing I recall being mentioned about Luther's Anti-Semitic screeds was a brief explanation that Luther was motivated by his "disappointment" that the Jews failed to convert en masse subsequent to his reforms. Nothing else mentioned, that I can recall. The only other bits of crazy that I recall was an off-hand comment about abortion being immoral (my Mom later explained that no Minister is right about everything, which was pretty heartwarming) and a bit of ridicule of the theory of evolution ("somehow brains kept getting bigger!").

I'm an atheist now, but in my experience the Lutheran Church Misssouri Synod is pretty banal--not as conservative as the RCC on social issues, and not as liberal as the RCC on poverty and war issues. Certainly more conservative overall than the ELCA (still no female clergy in the Missouri Synod, and greater resistance to abortion, but contraception is no problem), but not as loony far-right, as a rule, as Pentecostals or Southern Baptists.

Lutherans of all stripes tend to be wary of controversy, so I think it is fair to characterize this Pastor Genig as atypical in both style and substance--all the more reason to heap offal on the jackass.
Posted by Functional Atheist on March 5, 2012 at 5:36 PM · Report this
92
"Who is speaking up for the mothers who, under HHS mandate, have been falsely coerced into feeling that to be a woman means to have 'control' of their own bodies?"

What about us non-mothers who never needed any 'coercion' (much less encouragement!) to empower my-female-self by striving to maintain control of my body?

One thing I want to say -
I was raised Lutheran. As an adult, I don't have faith, but I have to say I love the church I was raised in, which my parents still go to. They never, ever brought this politics jazz into things. Both of the pastors I had were promoted to assistant-to-the-Bishop, too. And those guys were nothing short of tolerant, compassionate, and open-hearted individuals. I recall I was in confirmation class when the Matthew Shepherd incident happened and the pastor canceled regular confirmation class to talk about why he didn't believe in a god that condemns gay people and we spent the evening praying for Shepherd's friends and family (in a 'may they find peace in their grieving' way - NOT in a 'save the filthy gay' way).

Just saying.
Posted by ColoradoGirl on March 5, 2012 at 6:14 PM · Report this
93
Oh and P.S. - my little bro came out to our very religious, very Lutheran parents a few years ago, and there was no drama. They accepted it. My mom briefly did the, "okay, but don't get AIDS 'cause gay people get the AIDS a lot!" thing, but other than that, both my parents just said, "Alright and we love you" to my bro.

I want to underline the fact - and I appreciate this about them very much - that my parents live incredibly conservative lives. I don't think my mother has even smoked weed. They have a super-traditional marriage (dad = bread winner, mom = home maker). They go to church every single Sunday. My mom buys goats (from non-missionary groups) every Xmas for starving people in Africa. They own like 10 versions of the Bible and watch 'Mysteries of the Bible' on the learning channel or whatever. I'm 27 and they still get mad if I say, "goddamn."

HOWEVER, they are very socially-liberal (pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-teaching evolution, etc. etc.) I <3 <3 <3 them for dedicating their personal lives to a spiritual discipline that I think they both truly believe while maintaining a generous margin of wiggle room for everyone else to choose their own meaning-of-life, too, without condensation or judgment.
Posted by ColoradoGirl on March 5, 2012 at 6:25 PM · Report this
94
@50 I'd like to believe that. But these are the same people who vote against government health care, even when they're drowning in debt because they broke a leg once. The same people who flip their shit over welfare, even though they are actually on it. The people who are angry about all the moochers out there who don't pay any taxes without realizing that they themselves don't pay taxes. There's a disconnect, probably because most of these people tend to be on the lower end of the IQ pool. Trust me, there's some bitch in Texas right now, popping birth control pills and talking about what a slut Ms. Fluke is. And it will never, ever occur to her that an attack on birth control would effect her, because, hey, she's not a slut.

Posted by Lmlk813 on March 5, 2012 at 6:46 PM · Report this
95
@56 Exactly. They're all liars. My grandparents were hardcore Catholics. They had 12 children. One of my grandmother's sisters had 16 kids. In fact, of my grandmother's 5 sisters and 3 brothers, only one had fewer than 8 children- she's the wild, rebellious one. My mother has something like 130 first cousins. That's what it looks like when you don't use birth control.
Posted by Lmlk813 on March 5, 2012 at 6:59 PM · Report this
Ophian 96
Huh. Y'all might find the comments to the original article heartening.

The comments start off with some, 'Obama's attacking our religious freedoms, eek!' crap. But a little ways down the htread the comments are really calling out the imbicility and hypocracy of the article.

Amen.
Posted by Ophian on March 5, 2012 at 7:34 PM · Report this
Ophian 97
Discounting a few wierd protestant v. catholic jabs, over half of the thread is very eloquent rebuttal.
Posted by Ophian on March 5, 2012 at 7:43 PM · Report this
venomlash 98
92 and 93 are worth reading, for those of you who hide unregistereds.
Posted by venomlash on March 5, 2012 at 11:21 PM · Report this
MythicFox 99
@55 -- Because he was there, like Everest. I basically asked him to prove Timecube (since he's so hard-up on challenging people to disprove it) and asked him about some gaps in his 'theories.' Namely, why Timecube has 4 sides when cubes have 6. I can't recall his exact answer (I wish I'd saved those emails), but if I remember correctly it roughly came down to "It has four sides because you're an idiot. Shut up."
Posted by MythicFox on March 6, 2012 at 12:18 AM · Report this
MythicFox 100
@55 -- And on reflection, I think a little bit of my reasoning in trying to open up a dialogue with him was also just to see how crazy he was and whether it was all an act. I wanted to push him to see, if he was faking it, just how committed he was to being a nutjob.

If he isn't faking it, he is very committed.
Posted by MythicFox on March 6, 2012 at 12:24 AM · Report this
MythicFox 101
(Er, should be, "if he is faking it")
Posted by MythicFox on March 6, 2012 at 1:37 AM · Report this
102
I am an agnostic, but I have worked on social issues with many good Lutherans. To be fair, see the ECLA statement at http://www.elca.org/What-We-Believe/Soci…

A. Prevention of Unintended Pregnancies
Prevention of unintended pregnancies is crucial in lessening the number of abortions. In addition to efforts within church and home, this church supports appropriate forms of sex education in schools, community pregnancy prevention programs, and parenting preparation classes. We recognize the need for contraceptives to be available, for voluntary sterilization to be considered, and for research and development of new forms of contraception.

Posted by LML on March 6, 2012 at 12:56 PM · Report this

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