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News & ArtsThursday, March 15, 2012
2012 / Sex President Obama Calls Republican Candidates Members of the Flat Earth Society
Posted by Paul Constant on Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:17 PM
President Obama delivered what was billed as an energy speech on Thursday in Maryland, though his remarks took campaign overtones when Obama mocked his Republican challengers as members of the "Flat Earth Society."
..."Lately, we’ve heard a lot of professional politicians, a lot of the folks who are, you know, running for a certain office. Who shall go unnamed," Obama said. "They've been talking down new sources of energy. They dismiss wind power. They dismiss solar power. They make jokes about biofuels. They were against raising fuel standards. I guess they like gas guzzlers."
More like this, please, President Obama. The media has been so focused on Republican crazytown for the last few months that when somebody actually points out the insane backwardness of their ideas, it's a fun little head rush. It's like spending months speaking in a foreign language and then finally running into someone who's fluent in English.
1
Given that Obama took all funding away from the DOE's Hydrogen Initiative, based on his own ignorance of technology. And given his advisors, Jeff Immelt (CEO GE) and Stephen Chu, made the same error.
And given, that now, BOTH have turned their tails and run back to supporting hydrogen, as automakers who were encouraged to create unsaleable battery cars are now looking like the biggest idiots on the planet. And given the US Army did an end run around his disgraceful policy and has created a program and will fund it to the tune of billions of dollars, along with nations such as Great Britain, Germany and South Korea, who are pursuing independent commercial applications of the technology.
I think Mr. Obama...should remain silent...on the subject of alternative energy.
3
Yes, SROTU, you definitely know more about Energy than Stephen Frickin' Chu.
Also, re Hydrogen versus Electric: You may have noticed that we have a national network for the distribution of Electricity, and none for the distribution of Hydrogen.
Also, re Hydrogen versus Electric: You may have noticed that we have a national network for the distribution of Electricity, and none for the distribution of Hydrogen.
6
I don't think wind or solar power will become economically competitive anytime soon. Energy companies have proven themselves highly resourceful when it comes to finding new ways to extract fossil fuels, hydro-fracking etc. That means petroleum products will remain plateful for many years to come.
7
Except for special circumstances, wind power makes no sense. It is unpredictable (so we have actually had cases where the turbines were shut down because too much energy was produced and could not be saved), it kills birds, the equipment wears out too fast and sometimes catches fire, and most of the really good sites are taken anyways. It will never be more than a marginal energy source and will always have to be highly subsidized.
And, damn, who would not make jokes about biofuel (unless you have stock in Archer Daniel Midlands or live in Iowa)? Corn ethanol is an insane boondoggle.
And, damn, who would not make jokes about biofuel (unless you have stock in Archer Daniel Midlands or live in Iowa)? Corn ethanol is an insane boondoggle.
9
@6 - and every time those companies develop a new way to extract the oil, it gets more expensive while alt energy gets cheaper. Doubly more expensive because it costs more to extract and comes out of the ground at a lower grade, raising pipeline costs, transport costs, and refining costs. At this pint, the inevitability of oil is a creation of market distortions more than it is a supply and demand-driven fact.
10
#7 many of the same things were said about the early models of vibrators, but look how that technology has advanced. Nuclear power should be back on the table. Solar gets more viable everyday #6. So advances will be made on the alternative energy front, but our lifetimes will probably never see a complete weening off of fossil fuels.
11
The problem with current wind & solar technology isn't a problem of generating energy, but rather storing it. If the wind is up, but demand for the electricity is low, it's not like you can just shunt it into a big battery somewhere until its needed. That's one of the advantages of fossil fuel - and hydro to a somewhat lesser extent - you can easily increase or decrease the output to match demand.
What we should be doing is advancing the technology for space-based solar power, since the concentrations of photon energy is significantly greater above the atmosphere and on-demand literally 24/7, thus providing a much greater level of flexibility in terms of how much power is generated and where it can be utilized.
What we should be doing is advancing the technology for space-based solar power, since the concentrations of photon energy is significantly greater above the atmosphere and on-demand literally 24/7, thus providing a much greater level of flexibility in terms of how much power is generated and where it can be utilized.
12
@7 "it kills birds, the equipment wears out too fast and sometimes catches fire"
That's some funny shit!
It kills birds? Sometimes catches fire? LOL. Of course that NEVER happens with oil production....
"the equipment wears out too fast"
I suggest that you take a trip up to the North Slope and check out all the rusty, abandoned oil rigs, that are played out after just a few years.
Yeah, wind and solar.... serious threat to the environment.
That's some funny shit!
It kills birds? Sometimes catches fire? LOL. Of course that NEVER happens with oil production....
"the equipment wears out too fast"
I suggest that you take a trip up to the North Slope and check out all the rusty, abandoned oil rigs, that are played out after just a few years.
Yeah, wind and solar.... serious threat to the environment.
13
Republicans are flat earthers. Not only renewables AND conservation are inevitable, but waging war on women is likely not the way to win an election today.
14
Comte dear, one of the California utilities (Southern California Edison?) is now experimenting with a 1.5 mw storage battery, which would store excess daytime solar generation for nighttime use. If it proves successful, there's no reason why that can't be used for wind storage as well.
And I don't know why everyone thinks the surplus wind energy is such a big deal. Shutting stuff off when demand isn't there is how they run the entire electrical grid, with the exception of coal, which pretty much has to keep running full blast 24/7, whether demand is there or not (which is why you see electric utilities jonesing for widespread adaptation of EV's - to capture revenue on those currently lost kwh) You can throttle it back a little, but not much.
And dear leader, you've been yakking about hydrogen for as long as I've been on slog. What you always leave out is how much electricity it takes to create it. Why not just use electricity to power appropriate transportation modes?
And I don't know why everyone thinks the surplus wind energy is such a big deal. Shutting stuff off when demand isn't there is how they run the entire electrical grid, with the exception of coal, which pretty much has to keep running full blast 24/7, whether demand is there or not (which is why you see electric utilities jonesing for widespread adaptation of EV's - to capture revenue on those currently lost kwh) You can throttle it back a little, but not much.
And dear leader, you've been yakking about hydrogen for as long as I've been on slog. What you always leave out is how much electricity it takes to create it. Why not just use electricity to power appropriate transportation modes?
15
If hydrogen is so great, why did it vanish without a trace in mid-Bush years? GM put tons of work into their "skateboard" fuel cell chassis, had a press junket down in California (Camp Pendelton?) with a little squadron of SUVs built on the platform 5 or 7 years ago, then POOF, nothing.
The obvious killer problem was the fuel storage: a carbon fiber gas cylinder topped up to 10,000 PSI. Given that air cylinders for scuba run at "only" 4,000 PSI, are not completely trivial to fill and sometimes explode and take down the side of a scuba shop, this is nothing to sneeze at. This is not your father's Oldsmobile's gas tank.
(Admittedly, my subscription to AutoWeek lapsed not long after this and I never renewed.)
The obvious killer problem was the fuel storage: a carbon fiber gas cylinder topped up to 10,000 PSI. Given that air cylinders for scuba run at "only" 4,000 PSI, are not completely trivial to fill and sometimes explode and take down the side of a scuba shop, this is nothing to sneeze at. This is not your father's Oldsmobile's gas tank.
(Admittedly, my subscription to AutoWeek lapsed not long after this and I never renewed.)
16
@1, let's be honest, you think Obama should remain silent on everything so this statement is redundant. Out of curiosity, when you suggest Hydrogen as a great solution where do you expect to get all the hydrogen? The only large source of hydrogen I'm aware of is the oceans but it requires something to get it out. Let's see, what is it? Oh yeah, huge amounts of electricity. To get Hydrogen out of the ocean you need to generate a HUGE amount of electricity. Where do you expect to get all that extra electricity?
@11, It cracks me up when people make a fuss about "storing" all this electricity from solar and wind. Right now we generate about 4% of our electricity from these renewables. Solar has the advantage of generating electricity when we use the most, during the daytime. If we tripled the amount we generate from solar we could shut down several coal fired power plants on some days. We're a LONG way from having so much solar power coming in that we need to worry about storing it.
Supply and demand of electricity are both constantly fluctuating throughout the day every day. When a bunch of people shut off their AC a coal power plant shuts off for a while. If a pile of electricity starts coming in from solar or wind sources we shut off a few more plants for a while. When we're to the point that we have so much solar power coming in each day that we've shut off the coal plants for so long they can't be turned back on then I'll accept your argument that our biggest problem is electricity storage.
@11, It cracks me up when people make a fuss about "storing" all this electricity from solar and wind. Right now we generate about 4% of our electricity from these renewables. Solar has the advantage of generating electricity when we use the most, during the daytime. If we tripled the amount we generate from solar we could shut down several coal fired power plants on some days. We're a LONG way from having so much solar power coming in that we need to worry about storing it.
Supply and demand of electricity are both constantly fluctuating throughout the day every day. When a bunch of people shut off their AC a coal power plant shuts off for a while. If a pile of electricity starts coming in from solar or wind sources we shut off a few more plants for a while. When we're to the point that we have so much solar power coming in each day that we've shut off the coal plants for so long they can't be turned back on then I'll accept your argument that our biggest problem is electricity storage.
18
@12, 14 - Nuclear has the opposite problem: it is always on, regardless of demand. So during middle-of-the-night hours the electricity generated by nuclear is shunted elsewhere for later use. In one particular Michigan nuke plant (for example) nighttime energy is directed to turbines that pump water from Lake Michigan, uphill, to a reservoir. When 'leccy demand is higher in the day and evening hours, the reservoir is drained back through the turbines, generating electricity from the kinetic energy flowing downhill back to the lake.
In short: There are storage options.
In short: There are storage options.
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