Slog
News & ArtsFriday, March 16, 2012
Animals License to Kill Bald Eagles
Posted by Charles Mudede on Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 8:39 AM
- muppet.wikia.com
CNN:
It's the symbol of America, and for the first time, the U.S. government has granted a Native American tribe a permit to kill two bald eagles for religious purposes...But there's no "Creator" in the sky (nor is there one in the ground or anywhere else), and so killing the bird will only mean one thing in this universe: killing the bird.The eagle "flies higher then any other creature. It sees many things. It's closer to the Creator," said Robert Holden, deputy director of the National Congress of American Indians. Holden said he was bothered by the comments he was hearing: that this permit would lead to a mass killing of bald eagles.
"How stupid can that be?" he said. "It's a religion. It's what we do. We're more concerned about the eagle population than any culture in this Western Hemisphere. Why would we want to kill all the eagles?"
Hogan said the permit's issuance will have little effect on the powerful raptor. Taking two eagles from the wild "will not in any way jeopardize the status of the eagle population, either in the state of Wyoming or nationwide," he said, "and the good news is bald eagles are doing quite well."
2
And people love to claim that native Americans are so much closer and kinder to nature.
I guess that's the case until religious stupidity comes to play
I guess that's the case until religious stupidity comes to play
3
I've never understood how you honor something by killing it. This is as true of this tribe as it is for the Elks Club down the street that has a stuffed Elk head in its lobby.
4
"so killing the bird will only mean one thing in this universe". Really, from a guy like you who can imbue myriad layers of balogna-like meaning to any old crumpled up paper bag of a film, This can only mean one thing? That's just racist.
7
Alas, my religion requires me to kill vast amounts of brain cells through copious drinking of alcohol.
It brings me closer to the creator. Or something.
It brings me closer to the creator. Or something.
9
Oh look! There's a belief we don't agree with or fully understand! Those who believe it must be bad people worthy of our ridicule.
10
I respect their beautiful religion and majestic traditions, and it's a great step forward that their needs are being recognized by this noble permit. What I don't get is why they were not given a permit to kill one of the microbes that floats in the upper stratosphere.
The man asked for a beast that "flies higher then any other creature. It sees many things. It's closer to the Creator." We're talking microorganisms that soar to 25 miles, not some piddly eagle that goes like two miles. Typical colonialist attitudes that we don't listen. You can't really respect a people's traditions if you're not listening.
The man asked for a beast that "flies higher then any other creature. It sees many things. It's closer to the Creator." We're talking microorganisms that soar to 25 miles, not some piddly eagle that goes like two miles. Typical colonialist attitudes that we don't listen. You can't really respect a people's traditions if you're not listening.
11
beliefs are fine, whether they're misguided or not. actions - especially those that destroy a rare resource and a living creature - can and should be ridiculed.
12
Jesus, it's just a fucking bird. And they're not all that rare any more either. Who gives a crap?
13
Who's with me? I'm willing to follow the Indians around and scare the birds away before they can take any for their stone-age nonsense. I'm serious. We can form a big group and endlessly harass them.
14
Ritually killing 2 eagles will hardly destroy that resource. This is a lot like Alaska Natives who are allowed to kill one whale a year even though they are endangered.
These creatures are very central to their beliefs - do you really think they would devastate the population of such an important part of their religion?
These creatures are very central to their beliefs - do you really think they would devastate the population of such an important part of their religion?
16
@3 I totally agree. "Look at that magnificent creature! Look high it flies, close to the creator! We're so blessed to be sharing this world with it!". BANG! "There! We honored it."
This is why I also don't understand trophy hunting, or taking beautiful pictures of animals and then killing them. What's the point? Where's the joy of destroying a beautiful animal then mounting its corpse in your room? Why would you decorate your room with dead things, Norman Bates-style?
And for those willing to give Natives a pass on everything, they're just human beings, no better or worse than the rest of us. There's an Andean tribe that traps a condor every year, ties it upside down from a pole, and then those Natives whack it to death with clubs as they ride by the hanging condor on horses. You're okay with that? It's their culture. What if it was a European cultural tradition. Would you be okay with that?
Yes, bald eagles are not endangered anymore and this is being allowed in the context of a purported Native American religious ceremony, and all humans have and continue to hunt, specially white people. Plus, large societies drive species to the brink of extinction and beyond through habitat destruction. I'll give it all that. But I still don't see the point of destroying animals for reasons other than sustenance or self defense.
This is why I also don't understand trophy hunting, or taking beautiful pictures of animals and then killing them. What's the point? Where's the joy of destroying a beautiful animal then mounting its corpse in your room? Why would you decorate your room with dead things, Norman Bates-style?
And for those willing to give Natives a pass on everything, they're just human beings, no better or worse than the rest of us. There's an Andean tribe that traps a condor every year, ties it upside down from a pole, and then those Natives whack it to death with clubs as they ride by the hanging condor on horses. You're okay with that? It's their culture. What if it was a European cultural tradition. Would you be okay with that?
Yes, bald eagles are not endangered anymore and this is being allowed in the context of a purported Native American religious ceremony, and all humans have and continue to hunt, specially white people. Plus, large societies drive species to the brink of extinction and beyond through habitat destruction. I'll give it all that. But I still don't see the point of destroying animals for reasons other than sustenance or self defense.
17
Bald eagles are a protected group under American law, but so are American Indians. I bet it wouldn't be too complicated, in light of recent events, to get a permit to kill two American Indians for religious purposes. Killing backwards nature-worshipers is part of my religion.
18
This is the perfect time to begin the fight to making human sacrifice legal in this country. "How stupid can that be? It's a religion. It's what we do."
20
Whether you agree with the ritual or not, it is nothing less than a amazing success that there are ANY bald eagles left to kill. When I was 12, the only place in the lower 48 states that had even one bald eagle was the Everglades in Florida. Now, I see them all over the place, even in the city. Banning DDT has to be one of the biggest environmental wins in the last 50 years, if not for that the only eagles left to see would have been stamped on the back of quarters.
22
Good Morning Charles,
I read that yesterday and the first thing I thought of were the Makah Tribe and their sacred grey whale hunt from several years ago. Both perplex me but I guess that's the nature of ritual. I wouldn't do it but if doesn't affect the bald eagle population as a whole, I guess it's OK. I wouldn't want a trend started.
Still, it seems strange to kill them and not use them for some practical purpose (food, adorments etc.). When I lived in Africa, there was ritual slaughter of sheep and goats performed by an imam (Islam). But, virtually every portion of the critter was used. Also, neither animal is an endangered species.
BTW, if you or anyone else happen to be in Wabasha, Minnesota on the Mississippi, checkout the National Eagle Center. It's a fascinating museum with live eagles. They apparently nest en masse nearby.
I read that yesterday and the first thing I thought of were the Makah Tribe and their sacred grey whale hunt from several years ago. Both perplex me but I guess that's the nature of ritual. I wouldn't do it but if doesn't affect the bald eagle population as a whole, I guess it's OK. I wouldn't want a trend started.
Still, it seems strange to kill them and not use them for some practical purpose (food, adorments etc.). When I lived in Africa, there was ritual slaughter of sheep and goats performed by an imam (Islam). But, virtually every portion of the critter was used. Also, neither animal is an endangered species.
BTW, if you or anyone else happen to be in Wabasha, Minnesota on the Mississippi, checkout the National Eagle Center. It's a fascinating museum with live eagles. They apparently nest en masse nearby.
23
Sounds like the National Congress of American Indians and the Northern Arapaho Tribe should start worshipping the Fish and Wildlife Service.
"We hearby grant you permission to kill two of our surplus eagles. Dispose of them properly, OK."
"We hearby grant you permission to kill two of our surplus eagles. Dispose of them properly, OK."
24
This religious and cultural practice does less to harm bald eagle populations than, say, building a strip mall on the eastside does. It might be outdated but it's a fairly valuable tool for maintaining cultural ties.
As far as our religious traditions go, well, fuck all of you. We were nearly wiped out under a pseudo-religious pretense, many of you talk about sage like you're a shaman (ooh, mystical), dreamcatchers are ubiquitous and most pot smokers owe their hobby to us backward injuns but don't realize it.
If you don't know a damn thing about the culture just leave us the fuck alone already.
As far as our religious traditions go, well, fuck all of you. We were nearly wiped out under a pseudo-religious pretense, many of you talk about sage like you're a shaman (ooh, mystical), dreamcatchers are ubiquitous and most pot smokers owe their hobby to us backward injuns but don't realize it.
If you don't know a damn thing about the culture just leave us the fuck alone already.
25
@4, 9 and Baconcat FTW.
In a career of stupid posts, Charles, this one is "one of your more stupider."
/eyeroll
In a career of stupid posts, Charles, this one is "one of your more stupider."
/eyeroll
27
@Baconcat - 3/16/12
@Baconcat - 2/29/12
If you don't know a damn thing about the culture just leave us the fuck alone already.
@Baconcat - 3/16/12
Then again, that's the problem with hanging your hat on 5,000 year old "traditions".
@Baconcat - 2/29/12
28
@27: Ah cultural relativists...the hypocrisy and stupidity never ends.
Nothing I hate more then the incredibly philosophically bankrupt mentality of "you can't judge it, it is cultural/religious/whatever."
Especially when those same groups want special rights in total disregard to secular, rational law. We really do practice the separation of church and state ass-backwards these days, it is really sad.
Nothing I hate more then the incredibly philosophically bankrupt mentality of "you can't judge it, it is cultural/religious/whatever."
Especially when those same groups want special rights in total disregard to secular, rational law. We really do practice the separation of church and state ass-backwards these days, it is really sad.
29
Charles, if I want someone to shove their own personal theology in my face, I'd read some dominionist rag. You say there is no Creator anywhere? I say there is, and He rules eternally, but I have the decency not to try and force my opinions in this regard on others. Fuck off; proselytizing Atheists are just as bad as proselytizing Christians in my book.
30
Eagles not very rare. Real culture in America pretty rare. Phoney religous justifications, too numerous to count. To boorish to respond to. The ritual of the cycle of life is the basis for taking two measly eagles. Death is a big part of that celebration. You may not want to understand the ideals behind a stranger's belief, but that is your choice to remain ignorant.
32
@24 and @25 YES. Finally someone with some sense. Allowing native peoples to connect with their traditions is a huge cultural victory. I cheered when the Makah got their whale, and I will cheer when the Northern Arapahoes take their first and second birds.
Not only is it unseemly for people who blithely kill millions of animals to support their lifestyles to complain about this, it is nothing less than a modern extension of genocide. Let these people be who they are; let THEM decide, let THEM have some agency in their lives for a change. We have exterminated them, not as a people but as a culture, as vital as our own before it was wiped out, and is wiped out every day since. Give it to them. It's theirs.
We have our culture. It is surrounding us; it is in the air that we breathe. Indians live in our world, but their own culture surrounds them to, with the stink of death. Let them have a little of their life back.
There are numerous bald eagles over Green Lake and thousands upon thousands of them up on the rivers running out of the Cascades, and across the continent. It is not on the endangered species list anymore. The environmental effect of taking a couple is nil, as it was for the whale.
Not only is it unseemly for people who blithely kill millions of animals to support their lifestyles to complain about this, it is nothing less than a modern extension of genocide. Let these people be who they are; let THEM decide, let THEM have some agency in their lives for a change. We have exterminated them, not as a people but as a culture, as vital as our own before it was wiped out, and is wiped out every day since. Give it to them. It's theirs.
We have our culture. It is surrounding us; it is in the air that we breathe. Indians live in our world, but their own culture surrounds them to, with the stink of death. Let them have a little of their life back.
There are numerous bald eagles over Green Lake and thousands upon thousands of them up on the rivers running out of the Cascades, and across the continent. It is not on the endangered species list anymore. The environmental effect of taking a couple is nil, as it was for the whale.
35
#32 - Who's this "we" you keep talking about? I never killed any American Indians. If you want to feel guilty about things that happened hundreds of years ago, go right ahead, but kindly leave me the fuck out of it.
36
If you criticize the Arapaho for their irrational beliefs, realize that the offense you take to the killing of two bald eagles is also irrational. There is no reason for their lives to be more exalted than those of, say, a sparrow, yet CNN wouldn't be smearing on the hype if the Arapaho wanted to kill two sparrows for a religious ceremony. Bald eagles are not endangered; in some parts of the country they are as plentiful as blades of grass. We object because of our own sentimental attachment to eagles as a symbol. I totally believe in "live and let live" when the only thing at stake is the lives of two birds.
38
So, what happens if someone with Aztec ancestry wants to sacrifice a human?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacri…
The Aztecs were particularly noted for practicing human sacrifice on a large scale; an offering to Huitzilopochtli would be made to restore the blood he lost, as the sun was engaged in a daily battle. Human sacrifices would prevent the end of the world that could happen on each cycle of 52 years. In the 1487 re-consecration of the Great Pyramid of Tenochtitlan some estimate that 80,400 prisoners were sacrificed though numbers are difficult to quantify as all obtainable Aztec texts were destroyed by Christian missionaries during the period 1528–1548.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sacri…
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