Slog
News & ArtsMonday, March 26, 2012
Religion The South and Rural Idiocy
Posted by Charles Mudede on Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 7:51 AM
Let's give them something to think about:
Of the nation's four census regions, the West continued to be the most urban, with 89.8 percent of its population residing within urban areas, followed by the Northeast, at 85.0 percent. The Midwest and South continue to have lower percentages of urban population than the nation as a whole, with rates of 75.9 and 75.8, respectively. (See tables with percentages.)It can be argued that the West has really never been rural—the root of much of the idiocy we see in American politics.Of the nine census divisions, the Pacific division remains the most urban, with nearly 92 percent of its population residing within urban areas. The East South Central division (Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi and Tennessee) remains the least urban, with only 59.9 percent of its population residing within urban areas.
1
Oh man, I cannot wait for another week of ridiculing Southerners. Yep, we're all stupid uneducated assholes, with nothing redeemable.
2
Actually, I'd like the hear the argument that that west has never been rural. Because of, you know, pioneers and westward expansion and stuff.
3
The west was highly rural prior to the 20th century, and only sparingly so until the 1920s through 1940s. So it has been rural, just not now. Never say never.
Also, a lot of the early progressive laws passed in this country were done so in rural states. Wyoming was the first state in the US to allow women to vote for instance. Hotbeds of socialism in the early 20th century were in many small towns and farming communities in Washington State, such as Pullman or Vancouver. Don't forget that even Trotsky grew up in a rural village without even a post office or school.
Also, a lot of the early progressive laws passed in this country were done so in rural states. Wyoming was the first state in the US to allow women to vote for instance. Hotbeds of socialism in the early 20th century were in many small towns and farming communities in Washington State, such as Pullman or Vancouver. Don't forget that even Trotsky grew up in a rural village without even a post office or school.
4
Much of the west is desert or other borderline uninhabitable. And while in its early Frontier history it might have been rural, it was never as densely populated as rural areas in the midwest or south, which had generations or centuries of population growth more than the west did. And the plains cannot support rural life like the NE or the South: the soil gives out too fast.
7
@1, I was about to say the same thing. The schtick is getting a tad old.
My family is rural and southern.
I was raised to be tolerant, to seek higher education, to try to do good works, to not prejudge others (or, at least be aware when I am ).
Most of my southern friends would say the same.
My family is rural and southern.
I was raised to be tolerant, to seek higher education, to try to do good works, to not prejudge others (or, at least be aware when I am ).
Most of my southern friends would say the same.
8
@2 - Don't you remember the ending of the Oregon Trail computer game? - "You've made it to Oregon City! You sold your wagon and moved into a rental bungalow and got a job at an organic bakery as a barista. Not the one on Front Street, but the other one 2 blocks down by the Trader Joes. The one with the better baguettes."
His blog post is what you get for drinking too much red wine before 9 AM.
His blog post is what you get for drinking too much red wine before 9 AM.
9
Right, they define everything as "urban" and say everyone lives in it:
The Census Bureau identifies two types of urban areas: “urbanized areas” of 50,000 or more people and “urban clusters” of at least 2,500 and less than 50,000 people. There are 486 urbanized areas and 3,087 urban clusters nationwide.
10
Good Morning Charles,
Yeah, why the complete disdain of rural America ("idiocy" of rural America)? People of urban as well as rural areas can be small minded. One can't deduce the political disposition of a signifcant portion of the nation's populace by just geography and census data. And, no, political conservatism or liberalism doesn't necessarily connote stupidity.
Also, I contend with your argument that "the West has really never been rural". Granted the American West which I'll define as states west of the Mississsippi River has an enormous amount of Federal properties (National Parks, Monuments, military bases, BLM etc.) which can be discounted. But, after that I would say it is private property which have smaller cities and towns derived largely from ranching, natural resource procurment and farming. Only in the past 50 or so years have Western cities mushroomed in size. My point is the West WAS largely rural. And, it is becoming more integrated demographically/ethnically as well. That, census data can back up.
Yeah, why the complete disdain of rural America ("idiocy" of rural America)? People of urban as well as rural areas can be small minded. One can't deduce the political disposition of a signifcant portion of the nation's populace by just geography and census data. And, no, political conservatism or liberalism doesn't necessarily connote stupidity.
Also, I contend with your argument that "the West has really never been rural". Granted the American West which I'll define as states west of the Mississsippi River has an enormous amount of Federal properties (National Parks, Monuments, military bases, BLM etc.) which can be discounted. But, after that I would say it is private property which have smaller cities and towns derived largely from ranching, natural resource procurment and farming. Only in the past 50 or so years have Western cities mushroomed in size. My point is the West WAS largely rural. And, it is becoming more integrated demographically/ethnically as well. That, census data can back up.
12
Those western mountains and deserts probably don't have anything to do with our urban clustering.
14
@4 pretty much nailed it. It was historically too difficult to live a secluded life in much of the Southwest and Pacific regions. Those regions weren't even heavily populated in the urban areas until air conditioning was invented. The Southern U.S. at least has shade and rain. Much easier to live rurally there.
15
@7: are you the exception or the rule? charles' contention is: rural people are largely idiots, not that EVERY rural person is an idiot.
16
The West has always been rural. The first settlers in places like here formed cities, not farm belts -- San Francisco, Seattle. Yes, there were farms, but as a percentage of the population the rural areas were always much less significant here.
In the bigger picture, cities are where civilization takes place; Jefferson was wrong.
Notice that this urbanization trend is not just local but global, and it always means the same thing: when a country flips from more than 50% rural to more than 50% urban is when it becomes a modern society. We crossed that line in 1920; most impoverished countries are just crossing it now.
As city people we have nostalgia for the farm, but the truth has always been that farm life is short, stupid and miserable. For every fat man in a John Deere cap today there are many thousands of people like my own, who failed out of ranching or farming many decades ago. My great-great-grandmother took her family off the ranch to Billings, abandoning it to the county for unpaid taxes. That is a typical story in the West.
The remaining farmers in the South are overwhelmingly the poorest, least healthy, most ignorant, and unhappiest people in the country. The problem is far worse in other countries.
In the bigger picture, cities are where civilization takes place; Jefferson was wrong.
Notice that this urbanization trend is not just local but global, and it always means the same thing: when a country flips from more than 50% rural to more than 50% urban is when it becomes a modern society. We crossed that line in 1920; most impoverished countries are just crossing it now.
As city people we have nostalgia for the farm, but the truth has always been that farm life is short, stupid and miserable. For every fat man in a John Deere cap today there are many thousands of people like my own, who failed out of ranching or farming many decades ago. My great-great-grandmother took her family off the ranch to Billings, abandoning it to the county for unpaid taxes. That is a typical story in the West.
The remaining farmers in the South are overwhelmingly the poorest, least healthy, most ignorant, and unhappiest people in the country. The problem is far worse in other countries.
17
According to Mudede, Okanogan, WA ( pop. 2552 ) is now an "urban area".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okanogan,_W…
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Okanogan&l…
18
"It can be argued that the West has really never been rural"
Um, no it can't. Unless you are even more ill-educated and ignorant than all those rural dwellers you're always shitting on, Charles.
Um, no it can't. Unless you are even more ill-educated and ignorant than all those rural dwellers you're always shitting on, Charles.
19
@18, the pioneer period in the West was primarily an urban phenomenon. Not "New York" urban, but Astoria, OR urban, Miles City, MT urban, or Laramie, WY urban.The first settlements were forts, which are towns. The founding myths of the Wild West always involve shootouts at the OK Corral and scalping Indians, but the real history was always about schoolhouses and county clerks and Masonic halls and the first piano in town.
21
#20
Ok, fair enough!
My future condo above the barbershop in Okanogan qualifies me as an urbanite!
No more shame for me!
Ok, fair enough!
My future condo above the barbershop in Okanogan qualifies me as an urbanite!
No more shame for me!
22
#19
At the turn of the previous century, c. 1900, the United States was 50% urban and 50% rural/agricultural.
The late 1800s were probably the high point of American midWestern life and life in this country in general. A true free and landed middle class existed that was not consumer enslaved.
Will we see those days again...
23
More proof that Fnarf needs to get out more and realize how people have LIVED here.
Compared to the South, the West has always been LESS rural and MORE urban, which was Charles' point, even if Fnarf's wikis lie about it.
Compared to the South, the West has always been LESS rural and MORE urban, which was Charles' point, even if Fnarf's wikis lie about it.
24
I too am not fond of the sweeping generalization of rural being the equivalent of uncultured and ignorant hayseed. I would take rural any day over the culture that has emerged out of suburbia.
Also the first settlements here in the West were not fucking forts, but rather the many villages and trading centers established by the tribes.
Also the first settlements here in the West were not fucking forts, but rather the many villages and trading centers established by the tribes.
25
#23
Well, think of the average old West "town" based on the railroad.
It's sort of like LINK and building density at Nortgate.
Well, think of the average old West "town" based on the railroad.
It's sort of like LINK and building density at Nortgate.
26
@15 I'm not ready to concede that rural people are mostly idiots but, yes, many are. I don't live there anymore - Partly for that reason.
Lately, Slog, and pop-culture in general, have been cracking south=dumb jokes and comments too much for my tastes. I just thought a little push back was due.
Lately, Slog, and pop-culture in general, have been cracking south=dumb jokes and comments too much for my tastes. I just thought a little push back was due.
27
#24
One could say that the small "urban" town with its center, and two story buildings is the more natural environment for the Western American.
However, the last twenty years of trying to turn Seattle into a screaming high rise megalopolis is anathema to the Western mindset.
The 2500 to 50,000 "urban area" -- sort of like Pasco, is more the norm.
One could say that the small "urban" town with its center, and two story buildings is the more natural environment for the Western American.
However, the last twenty years of trying to turn Seattle into a screaming high rise megalopolis is anathema to the Western mindset.
The 2500 to 50,000 "urban area" -- sort of like Pasco, is more the norm.
28
@24, you are right, I meant white settlements.
@23, you are so fucking stupid you can't even read what I'm saying. Which contains zero percent "wikis", you pig-ignorant slop bucket.
@23, you are so fucking stupid you can't even read what I'm saying. Which contains zero percent "wikis", you pig-ignorant slop bucket.
31
Lauramae @ 24 was exactly correct. I would much rather live in a rural/small town setting than what is going on in suburbia. Charles needs to actually get out and meet some people.
And, Fnarf for the win each and every time over Will, although it's never much of a contest.
And, Fnarf for the win each and every time over Will, although it's never much of a contest.
32
Is the incendiary language really necessary? It just makes you sound like a bully, Charles, and I'm really not inclined to listen or want to have a conversation about much of anything when someone who clearly thinks they're so savvy and smart wants to point and yell at people who clearly, in his eyes, are weaker/less worthy as citizens and/or humans. There has to be another way to approach this idea. Maybe a total restructuring of it would do...
33
@31, the vast majority of "urban" residents actually reside in suburbia, which is by far the dominant form of settlement in America, and increasingly so in other countries as well. Even in Seattle, only about a fifth of city residents live in the kind of place Bailo has such scorn for -- the high-rise city or other dense configuration. Most of Seattle is tracts of single-family homes with lawns: suburbia. Yes, it creates problems, but people like it.
Small towns are not "rural". "Rural" means farms. And no, you do not wish you lived on a farm. No one in their right mind wishes that. Even the small-town paradise that Bailo imagines here (and he is imagining; even the residents of Pasco are laughing at him now) is not much fun if you don't have a job. And, increasingly, if you live in a small town you don't have a job; the jobs are in the cities or their integral suburbs.
Small towns are not "rural". "Rural" means farms. And no, you do not wish you lived on a farm. No one in their right mind wishes that. Even the small-town paradise that Bailo imagines here (and he is imagining; even the residents of Pasco are laughing at him now) is not much fun if you don't have a job. And, increasingly, if you live in a small town you don't have a job; the jobs are in the cities or their integral suburbs.
34
Fnarf: I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said. Charles, on more than one occasion, has lumped rural in with small-town. Further, he (and I) are talking about the mindset of those locations - I helped many a relative in the midwest on their farms on summer "vacations" and it is a hard life. But they were way more tolerant than folks I know in the 'burbs.
For the record, Bailo should get to the Tri-Cities sometime. Pasco alone has something liked tripled in population in the last 20 years, mostly with the same cookie-cutter developments. Just like Maple Valley, minus trees.
For the record, Bailo should get to the Tri-Cities sometime. Pasco alone has something liked tripled in population in the last 20 years, mostly with the same cookie-cutter developments. Just like Maple Valley, minus trees.
35
@10,
There's a good deal of evidence that rural residents are stupider, on average, than urbanites. Which doesn't necessarily mean that their stupidity is due to their living in rural areas; it's more likely that rural people with talent and intelligence get the fuck out of there at their earlier convenience, since cities actually have jobs.
There's a good deal of evidence that rural residents are stupider, on average, than urbanites. Which doesn't necessarily mean that their stupidity is due to their living in rural areas; it's more likely that rural people with talent and intelligence get the fuck out of there at their earlier convenience, since cities actually have jobs.
36
@ 21 - FYI...there are no residential spaces above Frank's Barber Shop on Main Street in Okanogan. There may be over one of the town's beauty salons, but not the barber shop.
37
@36 - I think the apartments above the bowling alley/bakery are renting. Okanagan's got a 4-story apartment building!
38
Rural life really doesn't work out too well when there isn't enough rainfall to do proper agriculture over wide areas.
39
@36 - the apartments across from the park by the river on N 2nd? Yep, I know those - I grew up right down the street. And Frank Barham gave me my first haircut and supported my little league team.
and @38, the Okanogan Valley as a whole depends greatly on (heavily subsidized) irrigation water, but there are quite a few dryland wheat farmers in the highlands. Their kids all grew up kicking the hell out of us town kids.
and @38, the Okanogan Valley as a whole depends greatly on (heavily subsidized) irrigation water, but there are quite a few dryland wheat farmers in the highlands. Their kids all grew up kicking the hell out of us town kids.
40
I live in the South and will tell you I know my fair share of ignorant assholes, but on the other hand, i've lived other places and run into these people as well. I'd wager that at least things are getting better here than in the Midwest. Eveybody's gotta have somebody to look down on....
41
@40: Yeah, but the Southern Pride from all the decades I spent in the South, that's a particularly nasty flavor of willful ignorance.
42
Yea chuck, rural people are dumb and bad, we better do what your genocidal father did in Rhodesia and round them up, kill them, and steal their land. Then we can all starve to death because communist nonintellectuals don't know how to farm.
43
I'm guessing good ol' Charlie doesn't get out into eastern Washington/Oregon or Idaho much?? A week or two with these modern day militia men might give you a renewed appreciation for our banjo plucking, moonshine makin' brethren down South eh?
44
Having lived in both rural and urban/(true) suburban areas, the degree of intelligence is not the issue, but rather ignorance of the majority's information. Having worked in academia in Cambridge, I can assure you there are supremely intelligent bigots/assholes, just like the presumptively inferior ones in the "Red Zone". The desire to be somehow superior isn't dependent upon where one is born, education, or the size of their bank account. Some people are just born that way I guess.
OTOH, I (as an history buff) really would like to know exactly what it would mean for "the South to rise again". Given the disproportionate dependance of the deep South upon Northern tax dollars (like the TVA)...
Peace.
OTOH, I (as an history buff) really would like to know exactly what it would mean for "the South to rise again". Given the disproportionate dependance of the deep South upon Northern tax dollars (like the TVA)...
Peace.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
All You Motherfuckers Complaining That aPodments Are Too Small at 200 Square Feet by Dominic Holden
-
SL Letter of the Day: Did You Think I Was Going To Tell You Not To Come Out? (PLUS: Help Free Kate!) by Dan Savage
-
Rightwing Anti-Gay French Activist Commits Suicide at Notre Dame Cathedral by Dan Savage
-
Spoiled Rotten: Star Trek Into Darkness by Paul Constant
-
There Are No Atheists In Foxholes by Dan Savage
-
America's Epidemic of Toddler-on-Toddler Gun Violence Continues by Goldy
-
Well-Regulated Beaverton Militia Accidentally Fires Shot into Neighbor's Bedroom by Goldy
-
Saint Genet Re-Creates "Shoot" by Brendan Kiley
-
Dutch Artist Turns Dead Cat into Remote-Controlled Helicopter by Bethany Jean Clement
-
Puggle: Love It or Shove It by Grant Brissey
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (44) RSS