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Thursday, May 3, 2012

SL Letter of the Day: Busting My Balls

Posted by on Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:02 PM

I've been a reader of yours for about five years now, and generally think you do a lot of good and provide sound advice. However, this weeks column was so callously offensive, as you clearly realized since you started your reply with "At the risk of my inbox filling with angry e-mails;" that I felt compelled to write in for the first time.

For one thing, you tell BSTD that he can justify getting his kink on secretly because it won't physically harm his relationship partner, yet then tell him he'll eventually have to explain his betrayal. Unless you think his betrayal is justifiable, Dan, you've just completely contradicted yourself. If you do believe that it's justified, you've contradicting yourself and everything GGG stands for. Within this same terrible paragraph, you write "when your girlfriend inevitably stumbles over—read: snoops and finds-evidence," which is a punch in the clit to every privacy-respecting female reader you have. In the comments other readers left, someone suggested that you believe everyone [all genders] snoops, this may be true, but that's not what you wrote here. What you wrote is sexist, and particularly troubling given the current political climate.

I've saved my biggest complaint for last: equating SSRIs to chemical castration, and saying, flat-out, that taking SSRIs is more extreme than your kink (which here equates to: more extreme than lying and betraying your girlfriend, and abusing your body to the point of likely causing permanent damage) is so extraordinarily fucked up, that I'm clearly at a loss for the appropriate words. Phenomenally irresponsible?

SSRIs don't work for everyone, and the side effects can be serious, but they can also, very literally, be the difference between life and death. There's a reason anti-depressents are the third most prescribed types of prescription medications in the U.S. I would've committed suicide before I reached 10 years old (my first attempt was in third grade) without SSRIs. I'm not suggesting that BSTD needs drugs, and certainly not that they should be his first option, but by dismissing SSRIs the way you did, you are putting people who hold your opinion in too-high esteem in danger.

I commend you for advising BSTD that there's nothing wrong with him for having the kink he does, but everything else about this letter is so horrifying that you should consider how much damage you're doing to those you purport to help.

Seriously Affected, Dan

My response after the jump...


I'm going to take your objections one at time:

1. Yes, I told BSTD that sneaking out to get his balls busted six times a year could be justified, as discreet ball-busting sessions pose no threat whatsoever to his girlfriend's health. But saying that something can be justified isn't the same as saying that same something is good idea. A person can justify putting pineapple on pizza, stretching their earlobes with plugs, or voting Republican—all self-evidently bad ideas.

2. I don't believe getting a bizarre and no-risk sexual need met safely and discreetly "betrays" the concept of GGG. Even partnered people are entitled to some shreds of a private life. And some people are burdened with sexual needs that are impossible to explain to a partner without panicking or losing said partner. If that need can be met safely and discreetly outside their relationship, if getting that need met presents zero risk to the partner's physical health, if getting that need met doesn't result in the sexual neglect of a partner, if getting that need met isn't a strain shared resources (like, say, seeing a $500-an-hour pro-domme would be), then it might be better idea for the person to get that need met safely and discreetly than to 1. never get it met and live in a state of constant sexual frustation (which will lead them to sabotage an otherwise solid relationship so they can get that need met) or 2. confess all (which might lead their partner to end an otherwise solid relationship).

All that said, SAD, I ultimately came down on the side of honesty, disclosure, and negotiation. (And with all due respect, SAD, GGG is my concept and I think I'm a better judge of what it stands for than you.)

2. Everybody snoops—a little bit, here and there, at the margins, myself included. I've said that a million times. This particular reference to snooping featured a girl-as-snooper because BSTD dates women exclusively. If a Republican legislator cites this line in "Savage Love" to justify either denying women access to contraceptives or requiring women to submit to transvaginal ultrasounds before obtaining a legal abortion, I promise to send that legislator a sternly-worded letter.

3. I did not equate "SSRIs to chemical castration." I was talking about two different drugs: SSRIs, which are anti-depressants, and Lupron, "an antiandrogen that is sometimes used to 'chemically castrate' sex offenders." Later in the column I wrote...

Now, I'm generally a fan of Western medicine—prescription drugs, invasive procedures, hospital cafeteria Jell-O—but I think taking SSRIs or chemically castrating yourself to suppress an urge to get kicked in the balls six times a years... well, BSTD, that's even more extreme than your kink.

It's clear that I'm talking about two different drugs here, SAD, and that I didn't describe taking SSRIs as chemical castration. I didn't slam SSRIs. I didn't praise them either and maybe I should've tossed in a line about the good I've seen SSRIs do. (I've certainly seen them do wonders for friends and family members who needed them.) But I stand by my advice to BSTD: taking SSRIs on a daily basis, for the rest of his life, to tamp down his desire to get kicked in the nuts six times a year seems like a disproportionate, even extreme, response to his "problem." That goes double—triple, quadruple, quintuple—for a chemical castration.

And finally, to lift your spirits BSTD, a letter that proves that there are girls out there for you:

I'm a bi 32-year-old gal who's into both sub & dom roles with men. But I'm probably more of a fem sub. I'm GGG and always excited to trying new-to-me kinks. Reading BSTD's letter and you response was the first time I had ever pondered sexless guy/guy ball bustingn and don't know if I should thank or curse BSTD for giving ME a new kink. I think watching this would be so hot! (I don't hate men! I swear!) Afterwards I imagine having hot sex with the bustee. Is that even possibe?

Bad Acronym Lass Loves Sex

Yes, BALLS, it's possible to have sex with a freshly-busted bustee. Just give him ten minutes to uncurl from the fetal position.


Comments (55) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
The only thing I found concerning about that SL Letter is that a guy actually wants his balls busted.
Different strokes, I guess.
Posted by sall on May 3, 2012 at 3:19 PM · Report this
Vince 2
I wish I could unread that.
Posted by Vince on May 3, 2012 at 3:20 PM · Report this
pragmatic 3
What if his girlfriend might want to have kids some day? Isn't this kink something she should know about? Ball busting can lead to testicular injury which could affect fertility, not saying it is a guarantee but it is much higher probability than if you don't go in for ball busting sessions at all.
Posted by pragmatic on May 3, 2012 at 3:34 PM · Report this
#3 - Dan's response to the original letter including urging the writer to freeze some sperm to protect against that eventuality. And also to have his busters pull their punches (or kicks or whatever), since even a smallish tap can bring the pain he craves.
Posted by Bostonguy on May 3, 2012 at 3:38 PM · Report this
pragmatic 5
@4 Ah, didn't read the original, just thought to point that out.
Posted by pragmatic on May 3, 2012 at 3:44 PM · Report this
Zebes 6
"A person can justify putting pineapple on pizza, stretching their earlobes with plugs, or voting Republican—all self-evidently bad ideas."

Whaaat? Pineapple on pizza is delicious. Why such an intolerant hater bully, huh?
Posted by Zebes on May 3, 2012 at 3:44 PM · Report this
That was for Terry, who is a longtime member of the Pineapple On Pizza community.
Posted by Dan Savage on May 3, 2012 at 3:50 PM · Report this
pragmatic 8
@7 Pineapple on pizza is best when it is cold the day after. It's like a pastry.
Posted by pragmatic on May 3, 2012 at 3:57 PM · Report this
Bonefish 9
*sigh* To be a college freshman again...
Posted by Bonefish on May 3, 2012 at 4:04 PM · Report this
Pineapple is awesome on/in almost anything (as far as food goes, nothing else)! Also, as a bonus: you know how asparagus makes all your bodily fluids extra stinky and yucky? Well, pineapple has the opposite effect, and is also a mild aphrodisiac, so there really isn't a single down-side to putting pineapple on your pizza :D Terry seems like a smart man indeed ^^
Posted by Friendstastegood on May 3, 2012 at 4:22 PM · Report this
Hawaiian pizzas were the only pizza I would eat until about the age of 18 or so. If it wasn't for pineapple, I would have never developed a taste for pizza at all.
Posted by SeattleKim on May 3, 2012 at 4:22 PM · Report this
balderdash 12
@10, if vampires really existed I would eat nothing but asparagus. Asparagus all the time. Asparagus smoothies for breakfast.

But yeah, pineapple is rad. Pineapple on pizza is extra-rad. Dan, I am afraid you are not only in a minority here, but you're going to hear about it for the life of this thread, because if there's one thing people like to talk about even more than sex, it's pizza.
Posted by balderdash on May 3, 2012 at 4:30 PM · Report this
RidingTheLightning 13
I love pineapple. I love pizza. But pineapple on pizza makes me feel sick. Please don't judge me.
Posted by RidingTheLightning on May 3, 2012 at 4:39 PM · Report this
sirkowski 14
Did she actually read Dan's advice??
Posted by sirkowski on May 3, 2012 at 4:48 PM · Report this
sirkowski 15
Oh, btw, try a pineapple slice in a hamburger instead of tomatoes!
Posted by sirkowski on May 3, 2012 at 4:49 PM · Report this
Please Dan, I beg you, lay off the ball-busting related letters for a bit. They're turning me into an uncontrollable, writhing mass of sympathy pain.
Posted by Marooner on May 3, 2012 at 5:19 PM · Report this
This is kind of a childish email. DS should be like NPR and just post the critical commentary. Then us commenters can deem whether it was worth reading or not! (The GGG comment on Dan's part annoyed me in particular)
Posted by Parmenides on May 3, 2012 at 5:20 PM · Report this
Whoops, I meant childish response.
Posted by Parmenides on May 3, 2012 at 5:21 PM · Report this
Ratatoskr 19
DAMN IT now I really want pineapple pizza :(
Posted by Ratatoskr on May 3, 2012 at 5:28 PM · Report this
This letter writer is an idiot who has no sense of proper context. Implying all women are snoops (even though that's not what Dan did, since - duh! - he usually tailors the response to the orientation of the people asking him) may be sexist, but sexist on the level of "men drink beer, amirite?" rather than sexist on the level of major physical/personal harm due to being female alone. In other words, it is sexist on such a low scale that pretty much any other activity is more worthwhile than objecting to that sexism. Seriously, this LW must lie awake at night agonizing about all those failed stand-up comics who make mild jokes about how their wives rearrange the furniture. What a failure to ask the "so how does this actually hurt anyone in real life?" question.
Posted by sahara29 on May 3, 2012 at 5:32 PM · Report this
SAD sure had a reading comprehension fail there.

My favorite is that, even though she claims to having been informed by other commenters of Dan's "everybody snoops" policy, she rushes to the idea that saying "your girlfriend will snoop" is somehow targeted to women specifically (punch to the clit? really?), and that doing so is somehow extra dangerous in today's political climate. If the original letter had specified that he was attracted exclusively to Dutch-American electricians with hairy feet of either gender, would she be rushing to their defense instead, saying that Dan is delivering a nationalist-professionist-nonhairyfeetist bastinado to the bottoms of those poor hairy Dutch feet?

I won't deny that the far right is so demented at this point that it's possible that anything Dan might say on the internet that could possibly be construed as anti-woman might be twisted and misquoted to add fuel to some wacky point some day, but the only way to stop that is to not have a public presence.

I especially like that she states that "this may be true" as if she isn't already using the internet and is incapable of googling "dan savage"+snooping. She has the capacity to find out herself if he has a history of only applying this standard to female partners, or if in this case it is referencing a very specific female person, and chose not to bother finding out. Hell, she wouldn't even have to google it. She could post some snarky comment and challenge someone else to prove that Dan applies that to both men and women equally, and I'm sure someone (not it) would feel compelled to provide linkage.

Also, go to heck, Dan. Pineapple+Onion+Green Peppers+Chicken+BBQ sauce pizza is the best ever.
Posted by Sathya on May 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM · Report this
Odd that the suicide prevention use of ssri's is the one being pushed, since that is what they are the least effective for.
Posted by mage on May 3, 2012 at 6:25 PM · Report this
I am offended by this person equating women with clits. Do you have any idea how many trans* women are killed by people who see them as sneaky non-clit-having traps. Like. Pop quiz: when was the murder of a trans* woman by a sexual partner who later found out her trans* status and went into trans panic first charged as a hate crime? Hint: rhymes with two thousand schmate.

Can we please stop doing something that, horrific murder rate aside (and horrific imprisonment rate, and horrific prison rape rate, because guess which gender trans* women tend to be imprisoned with?), alienates a vulnerable minority? It also alienates logical cis women, who, presumably, wouldn't stop being women if their genitals suddenly took a turn for the weird.
Posted by please? on May 3, 2012 at 6:33 PM · Report this
Cynic Romantic 24
Given the context, is a punch to the clit a good thing or a bad thing?
Posted by Cynic Romantic on May 3, 2012 at 6:54 PM · Report this
Okay, I'm trying to do the math here. We know that taking SSRIs is less extreme than suicide, because LW took SSRIs and it kept LW from committing suicide, which LW is happy about. LW also disputes Dan's assertion that taking SSRIs (ignoring the Lupron distinction, since LW did, and I'm trying to figure out LW's math) is more extreme than taking a shot to the balls a half dozen times a year.

So I guess we only know for certain that LW considers taking SSRIs to be less extreme than both suicide and getting kicked in the balls periodically. We don't have enough to say that they're being equated, per se. Just that they're both on the same side of taking pills which LW admits can have serious side effects.

I'm just amused by "This not-especially extreme problem doesn't warrant this relatively extreme solution." "How dare you?! That relatively extreme solution solved my problem (which was arguably as extreme as a problem could possibly be)!"
Posted by Ben on May 3, 2012 at 6:56 PM · Report this
Just to stand up for Dan for a moment, pineapple on pizza is disgusting. Sweet and tangy are lovely flavors but blending them with savory tomato sauce and spiced Italian meats is absolutely gross.
Posted by Park on May 3, 2012 at 7:03 PM · Report this
Corylea 27
I'm usually on Dan's side when he publishes these critical letters, but I thought today's letter-writer had a few good points, and I thought Dan's response was a bit dismissive.
Posted by Corylea on May 3, 2012 at 7:04 PM · Report this
The Third Rail 28
You know what's really shitty? Using the "current political situation" to justify attacking someone who is so obviously not sexist with vapid claims of sexism. The letter writer is a STRAIGHT GUY. He has a GIRLfriend. It would make no sense for Dan to write that his boyfriend might snoop. FFS, yes, sexism exists, but let's not cheapen the offense by tossing it out where it clearly does not exist.
Posted by The Third Rail on May 3, 2012 at 8:25 PM · Report this
Oh god. Reading comprehension FAIL. Not to mention, somehow bringing up the use of SSRIs for depression when we're talking about using them to tamp libido down? Seriously?! Can the LW really not distinguish between the claim that the latter might be a disproportionate response and the claim that SSRIs are BAD, forever and always? Dan was more than right to be dismissive; this person is incapable of basic reasoning.

Why did you publish this, Dan? You've ruined my morning.

But yes, pineapple on pizza is a crime. I say this as a great, great lover of pineapple.
Posted by aka90 on May 3, 2012 at 9:32 PM · Report this
Reverse Polarity 30
Pineapple cold and fresh is heavenly. Pineapple cooked on a pizza (or a burger or anything else) is disgusting. Please never speak of it again.

Also, please don't ever speak of ballbusting again. *shudder*
Posted by Reverse Polarity on May 3, 2012 at 9:54 PM · Report this
seandr 31
I agree with LW, saying stuff about women is totally sexist. Women were not put on this earth to be the subject of discussion.
Posted by seandr on May 3, 2012 at 10:13 PM · Report this
@24 Ow. No. Soft tissues against bone.
Posted by kersy on May 3, 2012 at 11:40 PM · Report this
This was one of the most annoying letters ever. On the upside, the differences of opinion on the pineapple issue were on an epic scale almost rivaling the history of religion, and I'm satisfied with that.
Posted by Karina on May 4, 2012 at 12:31 AM · Report this
Jesus, lady, go straight to the drugstore and get yourself a) Midol, and b) better reading glasses.
Posted by avast2006 on May 4, 2012 at 12:56 AM · Report this
@15: Oh, must try that some time, grilled pineapple on grilled hamburger with cold beer on a hot summer day sounds really tasty!
Posted by Friendstastegood on May 4, 2012 at 1:16 AM · Report this
Pineapple on pizza is just fine, thank you very much, but grilled chicken and barbecue sauce on pizza....bleah. If the Catholic Church ever runs short of things to denounce as "abominations," just point them at the nearest California Pizza Kitchen.
Posted by avast2006 on May 4, 2012 at 1:38 AM · Report this
I take SSRIs on a daily basis, in order to mitigate clinical depression and prevent panic attacks. They make me into a functional human being. Yet, I definitely think using them off-label to tamp down a kinky desire would be fucking ridiculous and extreme, and I appreciated Dan making that clear in his column. SAD really needs to think about whom she can claim to speak for.
Posted by planned barrenhood on May 4, 2012 at 2:05 AM · Report this
Well said, 37. Aspirin is great for headaches. We can freely bash politicians that advocate it for birth control in the knee-clenching method. It's an apples and oranges argument.
Posted by Karina on May 4, 2012 at 4:56 AM · Report this
Aurora Erratic 39
I still don't see what's extreme about SSRIs as a solution. They are very helpful drugs with, usually, very mild side effects. I can see someone deciding that they enjoy their kink and want to preserve it, so a solution that tamps it down is not the one for them, but that certainly doesn't make SSRIs an extreme choice if a person finds their kink a burden and an obstacle to honest relationships, especially if said kink - ball-busting, in this case - presents a risk of permanent physical damage.
Posted by Aurora Erratic on May 4, 2012 at 5:13 AM · Report this
Aurora Erratic 40
That last might have been the longest sentence ever typed in English.
Posted by Aurora Erratic on May 4, 2012 at 5:14 AM · Report this
@36 - It's only an abomination if the barbecue sauce and pizza sauce are on the same crust.

Yes, I said it. I'm against barbecue-marinara relationships. We need to stick with traditional, same-sauce marriages.
Posted by MarleyBarley on May 4, 2012 at 5:34 AM · Report this
If the SSRI's would only tone down the kink, I might agree. But they will also affect the parts of his sex life he is happy about.

A bit like pulling the whole tooth if there's only a small hole in it.
Posted by migrationist on May 4, 2012 at 5:54 AM · Report this
gttim 43
P. O. P. !
Posted by gttim on May 4, 2012 at 5:55 AM · Report this
let us help out here.....

" this weeks column was so callously offensive, as you clearly realized since you started your reply with "In the craven hope of my inbox filling ...."
Posted by oh gee. nothing new in Pervertopia on May 4, 2012 at 6:38 AM · Report this
If that kink "can be met safely and discreetly outside their relationship, if getting that need met presents zero risk to the partner's ..."

There is a great risk to the partner if she find out years later that he can't father children. A woman has the right to know upfront if her boyfriend/husband/partner is engaging in an activity that could damage his sperm.

If having children is important to her, she can decide if she's willing to share the risk with him. She has the right to DTMF if having kids someday is more important that having him. If he hides this fact until it's too late, he's a deceptive piece of shit.
Posted by peace 2 you on May 4, 2012 at 6:46 AM · Report this
--MC 46…

NB, the video says that Ron wrote the song, but as it turns out Russ actually wrote it.
Posted by --MC on May 4, 2012 at 7:33 AM · Report this
Dan, please do not reply to people who clearly did not actually READ or UNDERSTAND your column.


Those capable of reading comprehension
Posted by Kylere on May 4, 2012 at 8:21 AM · Report this
I think guys need to stop telling women what is and isn't offensive to them. Casual sexism always gets a pass on Slog, yet casual racism is abhored and recognized. "Shit Girls Say" is a harmless, funny, joke and anyone who finds it offensive has no sense of humor, yet the Ashton Kutcher video is racist as fuck and every good white liberal dude acknowledges that.
Posted by virginia mason on May 4, 2012 at 8:22 AM · Report this
Helix 49
"What you wrote is sexist, and particularly troubling given the current political climate."

Uh...uh? The guy in the letter mentions that he has GIRLFRIEND, and only dates WOMEN, so of course if a significant other is snooping on him it would be a girl.

Look I'm all for feminism and stamping out any sexism, but like...first you have to actually know what sexism is. Saying that BSTD's girlfriend might snoop isn't sexism, since the dude only dates girls, so there wouldn't be an opportunity for a male significant other to snoop on him. How do you get an implication that only women snoop out of that?

What a weird objection to raise.
Posted by Helix on May 4, 2012 at 8:50 AM · Report this
Pineapple on pizza is awesome. That was one of the first things I've disagreed w/ Dan on. Glad to see so many pineapple-pizza enlightened folks in the commentary :).
Posted by Wondrous Woman on May 4, 2012 at 10:29 AM · Report this
I think this person greatly overreacted in all the point they are trying to make. I didn't see any faults or contradictions in Dan's advice to this guy. He made some great points and spoke a bit more on the long run as far as advice goes. If the guy doesn't want to tell his girlfriend and get his kink fulfilled on the side, fine, at least he's not putter her at risk for STI but if she finds out it will be harder to explain. So if and when this happens, think about finding the next girl who will be cool with this kink. I didn't take offense to the snooping comment, most of the chick I know do snoop, but sometimes you can stumple across shit by accident, so going into the whole gender wars is way too much. And no, Dan did not bash SSRI's, taking something that will dampen all your libdo for something you do every couple of months doesn't sound like a good idea. There is a huge difference between this guys kink and the guy who bashed his nuts with a hammer, who by the way was on route to being castrated. If SAD reads this as Dan saying that taking SSRI's is liken to hitting your nuts with a hammer than maybe they need to slow down and read better. Or maybe SAD needs to get their dosage adjusted!
Posted by enoneo on May 4, 2012 at 11:36 AM · Report this
I feel like the people who are saying "But what if she wants CHILDREN????" are kind of overestimating the risks of getting kicked in the balls. I don't have stats on this, but I'm pretty sure ball-busting is one of those kinks that can be practiced safely. It's not like every other time a guy gets kicked in the balls he gets testicular torsion. Also, what if she wants children and he had a low sperm count anyway? I don't think that ball-busting really raises the risk all that much if the person doing the busting knows what they're doing.
Posted by alguna_rubia on May 4, 2012 at 12:09 PM · Report this
mtnlion 53
This letter writer is quite simply a drama queen (or king or person if the term is found to be sexist). Dan admits everyone snoops (and he's said this many times), not directed specifically at women. Dan says SSRIs are much more trouble than getting your balls busted (I'm not sure if I agree with that, but if it's safe, I don't know). I think the LW read this with a way too critical eye and blew a lot of things out of proportion.

I'm really tired of people accusing Dan Savage of sexism because he is clearly not sexist. Never once in anything I've read has he made it sound like women were lesser than men, or that enjoying sex was wrong for them. Maybe the occasional slip up where he refers to vaginas as canned hams dropped from the top of a building or something, but hey, that's just a strong preference for the cock.

@52: Cyclists have trouble with their sperm count. These are people who ride bikes excessively, not people who intentionally cause harm to their testes. I don't think it's all that crazy to be concerned about his sperm count over long term ball busting.

@39, one of the most common side effects of SSRIs is anorgasmia. Because orgasms are AWESOME and something we are all driven towards, I'd call that a pretty major side effect. This might be why they work for people with undesirable kinks, but I think everyone should be fair warned about this before they start taking them.
Posted by mtnlion on May 4, 2012 at 2:26 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 54
@53 You haven't addressed the central issue-- Is Dan wrong about pineapple on pizza?
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on May 4, 2012 at 6:53 PM · Report this
@53 - I wrote Dan a letter to this effect, but I don't know if he'll post it.

I'm not sure what the basis for SSRI therapy to treat unwanted kinks is, but based on my experience with them, I wouldn't assume it's the lowered sex drive/anorgasmia.

I started taking Lexapro for anxiety and depression and one of the happy side effects for me was that I no longer suffered from a rather unpleasantly obsessive crush that had been plaguing my life for about a year before that. I still *have* the crush, but it's no longer a compulsion. Curiously enough, while I'm still kinky, I found that I had an instantly enhanced appreciation for vanilla sex.

I think upping your seratonin (which is what SSRIs do) makes you less likely to obsess over rewards-seeking behaviors and predilictions in an unhealthy fashion. I'm not anti-kink by any means, but I don't think there's anything kink-negative about saying that it's better to be able to enjoy kinks without NEEDING them. Certainly, I think it might give BSTD the headspace he needs to be able to handle this kink without all the shame and anxiety he clearly displays in this letter.

Also, it's important to consider that obsessive, damaging and compulsive levels of these needs may often be a sign of not-so-great mental well being in the first place.
Posted by laurelgardner on May 5, 2012 at 8:33 AM · Report this

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