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Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Hoop Dreams: Passion, Not Money, Driving Deal to Bring NBA Back to Seattle

Posted by on Wed, May 16, 2012 at 4:39 PM

Would-be Sonics owner answers questions from media regarding arena deal.
  • Goldy | The Stranger
  • Would-be Sonics owner answers questions from media regarding arena deal.

"If it was about making money I would have preferred to have just stayed under my rock and have no one on this earth know about me," millionaire hedge-fund manager and would-be Sonics owner Chris Hansen says about his quest to bring big league basketball back to Seattle. "Regardless of whether the NBA is a good investment or not, my business is a better investment," insists Hansen. "I'm able to earn higher returns in my existing business with a minimal level of public disclosure and opinion about how I should do things."

So if it's not about the money, and if Hansen is so obviously uncomfortable in the public spotlight, why the hell would he invest up to $800 million in building a new NBA/NHL arena and bringing a couple of franchises to town?

"I'm really passionate about basketball," says Hansen, "really passionate about it here in Seattle." You know, hoop dreams and all that. Dreams that are one step closer to reality today after Hansen signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with county and city officials.

Today's MOU, announced at a morning press conference, is pretty much along the lines of the previously released agreement, except with a lot more specifics filled in. As promised, no new taxes will be raised to fund arena construction, with the public contribution entirely self-financed via revenue that would not otherwise be generated but for the arena. Both NBA and NHL franchises will sign non-relocation agreements covering the full term of the public debt, with investors guaranteeing revenue sufficient to meet the city/county's annual debt service. Hansen and his partners will be responsible for all cost overruns, maintenance and capital improvements, and the city/county will be first in line among creditors in the unlikely event of a default. (The value of the franchises alone would more than cover the public investment.)

The biggest news today has to do with the timeline of the payments, the split in public financing between city and county, and the fact that Hansen is ready to move forward as soon as he acquires an NBA franchise, regardless of whether an NHL franchise is immediately available.

Once the city and county councils embody the MOU in ordinance, Hansen's group will proceed with the design, permitting, and environmental reviews necessary to get the project moving. "It will take 12 to 15 months before we can put a shovel in the ground," Hansen told me in explaining the urgency for the councils to move quickly in evaluating and approving the MOU. "The farther along in the process, the better position we'll be in" should a franchise become available says Hansen.

Only after the permitting has been completed and a franchise is acquired would public bonds be issued and a payment due: the city would purchase the land at fair market value ("roughly what we paid for it plus the soft costs to get it ready to build on," says Hansen), but no more than $100 million. Sometime after the arena opens (the "Transfer Date" is complicated for technical reasons), a second payment would be due transferring full ownership of the arena to the city/county: up to $200 million ($120 million from the city, $80 million county) less the amount paid in the first installment should both NBA and NHL franchises be acquired, or up to $120 million ($115 million from the city, $5 million county) less the amount paid in the first installment should only an NBA franchise have been acquired; the additional $80 million would be paid at a later date should an NHL franchise subsequently be obtained.

The city/county would then lease the arena back to the ownership group, with the rent and the taxes covering the debt service on the bonds, which in any case would not exceed the $200 million cap in the MOU, with Hansen's group picking up the rest of the estimated $500 million cost. That's a pretty sweet deal for taxpayers compared to previous arena proposals, as well as those deals struck recently in other cities. There would be no hit on city and county budgets both Mayor Mike McGinn and county executive Dow Constantine promised at today's press conference, and no new taxes. If all goes according to the terms of the MOU, taxpayers are merely lending the bonding authority to borrow up to $200 million cheap.

Understated and unassuming, Chris Hansen does come off as your stereotypical multimilionaire.
  • Goldy | The Stranger
  • Understated and unassuming, Chris Hansen does not come off as your stereotypical multimilionaire.

But then, as Hansen has stated, this isn't about the money. Sitting in a Starbucks atop the Columbia Center about an hour before today's press conference, a somewhat guarded Hansen chatted with me about his motivations, his past, and his future plans for the team, and he certainly didn't come off as your stereotypical multimillionaire out to make a quick buck off of taxpayers (yes I'm talking to you Paul Allen and Clay Bennett).

A born and raised Sonics fan and a graduate of Seattle's Roosevelt High School, this would be the culmination of a lifelong dream. Lot's of kids fantasize about playing in the big leagues, but "when I was five foot four and starting high school, I knew those dreams weren't in the cards," admits Hansen, who says that it was during college that his dreams of someday owning the Sonics started to take form. "I thought if I worked really hard in my life, maybe I would have the opportunity to achieve it someday," says Hansen, "and once I became a little more educated and sophisticated about the way these things work ... I could see the path to this becoming a reality."

Becoming fabulously wealthy didn't hurt either.

As for the remaining obstacles to achieving his dream, Hansen remains relentlessly if understatedly confident. "Seattle's at the top of the list in terms of places where the NBA would like to have a franchise," says Hansen. He refused to speculate where that franchise might come from, saying it wouldn't be appropriate, but allowed that "everybody understands the opportunities out there." (Sacramento, wink, wink.) Hansen says the NHL also views Seattle as the most attractive market it's not currently in, having the entire US Pacific Northwest to itself, and serving excess demand in Vancouver with an arena conveniently accessible via heavy rail.

As for concerns over traffic and parking in the SODO area—a neighborhood Constantine strategically referred to as the "Stadium District"—Hansen says he's listening to the concerns, but insists much of it is overstated. Hansen points out that the arena's 18,000 seats would be far less than the neighboring football and baseball stadiums, and that most of the events will be held at night, hours after the main shift at the Port of Seattle ends. The site is also convenient to commuters via light rail, Sounder, bus rapid transit, and various Metro buses, while being situated at the intersection I-90, I-5 and Highway 99.

"We're really happy with the site we've chosen," Hansen insisted, brushing off my question about whether another site would do. "I think that we did our homework."

Hansen has funded a traffic study being conducted by SDOT, that he expects to back up his analysis, but says he's keeping an open mind about whether he might put up additional funding toward traffic mitigation if needed. "It needs to be reasonable and it needs to be things that we're impacting," says Hansen. "Should we be responsible for solving all of the traffic problems that occur, particularly those that occur during non-operating hours? I don't think that's fair to ask," says Hansen. "But we'll definitely listen."

As for what kind of owner he'd be, fitting to his demeanor, Hansen says a quiet one. "Fans don't want to hear from the owner," says Hansen, "Fans want to hear from the coach, the players, the player personnel people that are making decisions. It's about the sport, and the less you see the owner the better." And when asked to name another franchise he admires, Hansen immediately pointed to the San Antonio Spurs, a consistently playoff calibre team with a number of championships to its credit, and a model of management stability that Seattle fans wouldn't mind following.

Hansen wouldn't predict when his new Sonics might claim their first championship, but he does think that fans will be celebrating sooner than later. "First we have to get a team," says Hansen, but "I do do believe that the day that we have a team will feel a lot like winning a championship."

And for Hansen, it'll feel a lot like a dream come true.

 

Comments (53) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
1
And little boys must have their toys.

I'm glad to know that a new sports team and arena are at the top of the to-do list for McGinn and Constantine. Priorities, kids.
Posted by westello on May 16, 2012 at 4:47 PM
2
Hell yes, great article, bring back MY SONICS!!!
Posted by Slog Tipper David on May 16, 2012 at 5:00 PM
3
This doesn't cost the tax payers anything and will add immeasurable to the city economically and socially. And the arena deal is groundbreaking, the way of the future. For comparison go check out what the good people of Minnesota just got stuck with in order to keep their beloved Vikings. Be gone, haters that don't enjoy basketball, find another thread to complain on. This is a great story.
Posted by Slog Tipper David on May 16, 2012 at 5:02 PM
4
What a fucking puff piece. One question, Goldy. Did you swallow?
Posted by Fuck the NBA on May 16, 2012 at 5:04 PM
Will in Seattle 5
Man, you guys are sure gullible.

Wake me when you count up all the money you don't have in the first place.
Posted by Will in Seattle http://www.facebook.com/WillSeattle on May 16, 2012 at 5:05 PM
DOUG. 6
Get rid of David Stern and start calling traveling violations and I might give a shit about the NBA again.
Posted by DOUG. http://www.dougsvotersguide.com on May 16, 2012 at 5:20 PM
7
Hmm. So they've gotten rid of hockey already?

They're breaking their promises even earlier than usual on this particular stadium deal.
Posted by Mr. X on May 16, 2012 at 5:24 PM
8
Is this where people are opposed to sports as entertainment per se start making shit up about why the city shouldn't accept free stuff?
Posted by Reader01 on May 16, 2012 at 5:29 PM
Original Andrew 9
Too bad he's not passionate about helping the homeless, kids in the foster care system, or dogs and cats at what's left of the animal shelter.
Posted by Original Andrew on May 16, 2012 at 5:32 PM
10
He's not looking to piss away his money, @9
Posted by Reader01 on May 16, 2012 at 5:33 PM
douchus 11
#9

Too bad we don't know anything about him other than his passion for basketball.
Posted by douchus on May 16, 2012 at 5:34 PM
12
@11
Of course we do. He was on SNL, and now he has his own late night show. Look at that picture! Fallon pulling one on us!
Posted by Separated at birth on May 16, 2012 at 5:41 PM
gloomy gus 13
In a thread about one of the earlier pressers someone wrote a comment that's worth thinking about.

If this were really as good an idea as Hansen claims his "whoever they are" ownership group wouldn't need our motherfucking bonding authority.
Posted by gloomy gus on May 16, 2012 at 5:42 PM
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 14
"...entirely self-financed via revenue that would not otherwise be generated but for the arena. "???

Oh, wait. Goldy wrote that. Anybody else would have wondered what happens to the lost revenue when sports fans buy beer at the new arena instead of buying it wherever they buy it now. The city is losing taxes from the entertainment dollar that gets spent in the arena and not the other attractions in the city. The difference is, the tax money from the other attractions isn't tied up paying off a loan for a millionaire's ego trip. This deal makes the city poorer and makes a rich guy richer. And that's only if the thing doesn't go bust and leave the city on the hook with a big worthless IOU from our new benefactor.

Why doesn't the city borrow money to build a new addition on my house? They can pay off their loan with the extra property taxes they collect from me. Deal?

I guess it's free blow jobs for millionaires day.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn http://youtu.be/zu-akdyxpUc on May 16, 2012 at 5:58 PM
ItsAllOverNow 15
If we get a team and this stadium gets built I hope someone tells this guy to button his shirt another button. I don't want to have to look at that chest hair every time I watch a basketball game for the next 30 years.
Posted by ItsAllOverNow http://nowaybro.blogspot.com/ on May 16, 2012 at 6:01 PM
16
This page on FB went up yesterday. Seems to have some interest...

http://www.facebook.com/SaveOurSoDoJobs
Posted by grady21 on May 16, 2012 at 6:03 PM
Cato the Younger Younger 17
I am so going to laugh my ass off when this "deal" ends up fucking over the taxpayers like all the other "really good deals"
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on May 16, 2012 at 6:11 PM
18
@14, your reasoning is very flawed and you know it. 85% of the attendees will be from out of the city, they will come in, hopefully by train and bus, otherwise they will pay for parking in the city, eat and drink in city bars, and spend money in the arena, paying off the bond and benefiting city establishments as well. Yes their is calculated risk, but this is mostly win-win for Seattle.

I'm all for it, especially if we get the NHL, can't wait to watch me some Seattle Metropolitans!
Posted by KevN on May 16, 2012 at 6:32 PM
19
Yes NBA back in Seattle and who cares if we get hockey, I'm not opposed to it, but indifferent.
Posted by Democrat1234 on May 16, 2012 at 6:36 PM
20
What a bunch of snooty uninformed whiners that hate rich people and basketball. Ha. This is a great day. Bring back the Sonics! Although I agree with #6 on Stern the slime bag... Also the flopping needs to go.
Posted by Slog Tipper David on May 16, 2012 at 7:09 PM
21
@18
I do not agree.

"Hansen and his partners will be responsible for all cost overruns, maintenance and capital improvements, and the city/county will be first in line among creditors in the unlikely event of a default."

So if things do not work out and the government is left with debt then at least the government is first in line to pick up the worthless assets.

We still owed $80 million on the Kingdome when we had to pay to demolish it.

"85% of the attendees will be from out of the city, ..."

Even if that number is accurate (what are the borders for "out of the city") it does not reflect whether they'd come to Seattle for a different reason.

People have a limited amount of discretionary income.
If they aren't spending it on a game and game related activities then what are they spending it on?
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on May 16, 2012 at 7:17 PM
The_Shaved_Bear 22
@17 You obviously never laugh much. Now or ever.
Posted by The_Shaved_Bear on May 16, 2012 at 7:21 PM
Goldy 23
@7: They haven't gotten rid of hockey. They're building an NHL arena (which costs more and has worse sight lines for basketball). They're just not making the acquisition of an NHL franchise a prerequisite for breaking ground.

And city/county put in $80 million less until a hockey franchise is obtained, and Hansen's group eats the difference.
Posted by Goldy on May 16, 2012 at 7:21 PM
Goldy 24
@21: Worthless assets? The NBA franchise alone is worth a couple hundred million dollars at least, and even the Phoenix Coyotes in bankruptcy are worth $130 million. Just the franchise rights—the right to field the teams—would cover the city/county's investment.

A worse case scenario would see the city/county having to make the difficult choice between liquidation—covering its costs but losing the teams—or agreeing to lesser terms that keep the teams but with less revenue. But that would be our choice.
Posted by Goldy on May 16, 2012 at 7:33 PM
The_Shaved_Bear 25
Bump that troll, Goldy! Sealth require HOOPS!
Posted by The_Shaved_Bear on May 16, 2012 at 7:37 PM
26
@24
"Worthless assets?"

Yes, worthless assets.
Because anything of any value will have been disposed of BEFORE they default and BEFORE the government gets anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdome#De…
We are still paying for that.

"... or agreeing to lesser terms that keep the teams but with less revenue."

You might want to focus on that because your entire position depends upon the government having the power to FORCE the team to play where the government tells them to play and for how much the government will pay them. And that depends upon the government getting control of the team in the first place.

If this is going to bring in so much money then they can pay for it without the government's help.

If they need any of our help then we can cut the taxes that they'd pay.

But we should not be spending a single penny to pay for any of this.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on May 16, 2012 at 7:50 PM
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 27
@18

85% ? Impressive.

As in "85% of all statistics are made up on the spot."? Yep, I knew that.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn http://youtu.be/zu-akdyxpUc on May 16, 2012 at 7:56 PM
Supreme Ruler Of The Universe 28

Pretty "ghosty" out on the highways right now:

http://www.wsdot.com/traffic/seattle/def…

Did everyone leave?

Methinks they have to cram this thing into downtown to fake the idea that this place is still happening.
Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe http://www.you-read-it-here-first.com on May 16, 2012 at 8:33 PM
29
The arena site is 0.8 miles from the SODO light rail station and also 0.8 miles from the Stadium Station.

How many fans are going to walk 1.6 miles round trip, at night, to attend a basketball game?
Posted by Citizen R on May 16, 2012 at 9:07 PM
the idiot formerly known as kk 30
Goldy, don't waste your time reporting on Slog. No one here is interested in facts. It's the mirror image of Fox News. Unless it fits the idea of what should be, it can't be true.
Posted by the idiot formerly known as kk on May 16, 2012 at 9:12 PM
31
@29 That's a really good question.

also: I WANT HOCKEY!
Posted by kersy on May 16, 2012 at 9:19 PM
Supreme Ruler Of The Universe 32
OKC just took game 2!!

Go Thunder!!!
Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe http://www.you-read-it-here-first.com on May 16, 2012 at 9:20 PM
levide 33
@29

All of 'em. They're already cattle.
Posted by levide on May 16, 2012 at 9:29 PM
34
It's pretty funny how when Goldy gets a few minutes with a charismatic bigshot he gets all googly-eyed and writes stuff that will likely come back to embarrass him later.
Posted by hermann on May 16, 2012 at 9:30 PM
35
"Hansen and his partners will be responsible for all cost overruns, maintenance and capital improvements, and the city/county will be first in line among creditors in the unlikely event of a default."

This is what makes this deal different from 99% of stadium deals, including the Kingdome, and Safeco, and Century Link, and every proposal for Key Arena. I don't even like basketball or hockey, and I hate give-aways to corporations, and I still see this as a good deal for taxpayers.
Posted by Moag on May 16, 2012 at 9:59 PM
36
@13 "If this were really as good an idea as Hansen claims his "whoever they are" ownership group wouldn't need our motherfucking bonding authority."

There are one simple reason why the city's bonding authority is crucial to this project. It allows the bonds to carry a much lower interest rate than private corporate bonds would get, thus saving millions in financing costs.
Posted by Moag on May 16, 2012 at 10:04 PM
37
I am opposed to this project because I think, as many have already pointed out, that private ventures like this should fund themselves. I don't understand how people with semi-decent critical thinking skills can call a project like this "self-financed" just because government investment will (that is, "is supposed to") get recouped in taxes. Those taxes are basically funding a for-profit group of investors when the taxes garnered from basketball should be funding some of the humungously underfunded projects that actually help people.

But I have another point, which is this: Anyone who buys on face value anything that Chris Hansen tells us or the press is a fool. This isn't to say that he is lying, just to say that we have no reason to think he's telling the truth. It's not about Hansen. That story has been cooked up for us so the pill will go down smoother: "Local boy who does good and has a love of basketball, decides to come back home and fulfill a dream, blah, blah, blah." That is the story that has been spun up by the investment group and by the PR firm that they hired. The PR firm's job is to decide exactly how best to spin this story so that people like Goldy fall in love. They decided, astutely, to make the story about Hansen, and he's doing his job well, distracting us from the fact that this is an investment group looking for a sweet deal. The fact that Goldy was even interviewing this guy, and that his handsomish visage and life story is included in all these articles and blogs, means they've won.
Posted by Jude Fawley on May 16, 2012 at 10:31 PM
38
@ 32 Screw the zombie sonics, go lakers
Posted by Democrat1234 on May 16, 2012 at 10:31 PM
MrBaker 39
@24, as well as control over a $490 arena.

There is nothing about this that some people will ever like, Goldy. A vocal minority will make up all kinds of fact-less scenarios to support their opposition.

The dollars spent at the arena that would have gone some place else is a maximum 25%, that includes dollars not spent in Bellevue, or Everett, or Tacoma, but spent in Seattle's arena.
The "area" dollars argument is an interesting one, the area gets bigger when accounting for where dollars would otherwise get spent, and smaller when measuring where the positive economic impact is.

It's better for Seattle, worse for Bellevue, and hockey fans not spending their dollars in Vancouver but in Seattle. Should we make the "area" where dollars would otherwise get spent to include parts of Canada?
Should we feel bad for Canadian taverns, too? No?

How about Sacramento, should the "area" include the location where the NbA franchise comes from, where that franchise revenue would otherwise get spent? No?

Fuck Bellevue, we are taking their otherwise spent in the "area" of Bellevue beer and entertainment dollars.
Posted by MrBaker http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ on May 16, 2012 at 10:37 PM
MrBaker 40
@37, so, he didn't go to Roosevelt, and he didn't live in the Rainier valley, or is it his feelings you don't believe?

Maybe you are the one spinning. Why should I believe you? I know even less about you (and don't care to know more).

Assuming the negative doesn't make you anymore or less trustworthy.
Posted by MrBaker http://manywordsforrain.blogspot.com/ on May 16, 2012 at 10:48 PM
Sargon Bighorn 41
The is NO financial crisis in America (for the rich).
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on May 16, 2012 at 11:21 PM
DOUG. 42
Kind of ironic (and a little tone deaf) that you met in a Starbucks. If not for that turncoat, Howard Schultz, we'd probably be watching Kevin Durant's Sonics march toward the NBA Finals right now.
Posted by DOUG. http://www.dougsvotersguide.com on May 16, 2012 at 11:37 PM
43
"This is about passion, not money."

Okay, then we'll just hold on to our $200 million, thank you very much.
Posted by d.p. on May 17, 2012 at 1:55 AM
Cato the Younger Younger 44
I LOVE that this area ripoff gets all of these newbie commentators on Slog! It seems almost contrived
Posted by Cato the Younger Younger on May 17, 2012 at 3:38 AM
tainte 45
thanks for the spoiler 32, i had that game on my dvr.

fucker.
Posted by tainte on May 17, 2012 at 5:33 AM
Kinison 46
@35 "This is what makes this deal different from 99% of stadium deals, including the Kingdome, and Safeco, and Century Link, and every proposal for Key Arena. I don't even like basketball or hockey, and I hate give-aways to corporations, and I still see this as a good deal for taxpayers. "

Seahawks said they would cover cost overruns, and they did.

Mariners said they would cover cost overruns, then refused to pay them, eventually the state sued them into paying up.

Qwest/Century Link field has been good for Seattle. Seahawk games have been sold out since the stadium opened and the Sounders FC are simply kicking ass and setting attendance records for the league. Bars and restaurants couldnt be happier about this sports combo.

You really cant say its a good deal for tax payers, until it actually begins to pay off.
Posted by Kinison http://www.holgatehawks.com on May 17, 2012 at 7:59 AM
chinaski 47
If Hansen doesn't care about the money then why doesn't he sell the property back for a resonable profit. He stands to make a quik return on the RE alone.
Nice shilling Goldy, you sucker of satan's cock.
Posted by chinaski on May 17, 2012 at 9:56 AM
48
@40. You don't have to trust me or know anything else about me. I don't know any more than what I read, but I'm trying to read this from a critical perspective. The original article in the Seattle Times (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo…) notes that "His visit to The Times represented his first public step in introducing himself to the region, helped by a high-profile public-relations firm with experience in navigating Seattle stadium deals."

I have no reason to think that Hansen isn't a nice guy; I never said that he didn't go to Roosevelt and live in Rainer Valley. What I am addressing is the story and the way the story is being supported in the media. The facts of the story can be true, but it is still a story and some facts are included, some are left out. A simple example, in recent interviews, Hansen is basically implying that he isn't doing this for the money. He is saying this for a reason - the implication being that if he's doing this out of passion, and love for Seattle, then we can trust him to keep "our" interest as the priority. I am saying that we should not take this story at face value, especially when a large public investment is being requested. Whether this should move forward is largely a technical issues related to taxes, investments, costs and benefits for the city. The "personal story" is a distraction from those issues, but it keeps coming back. That is why I am concerned.
Posted by Jude Fawley on May 17, 2012 at 10:01 AM
49
@43 We don't get to just "hold onto" our $200 million. It doesn't exist. What is so difficult to understand about this?
Posted by Chali2Na on May 17, 2012 at 11:01 AM
50
@49
"We don't get to just "hold onto" our $200 million. It doesn't exist. What is so difficult to understand about this?"

Probably the fact that people keep saying that it does exist and then claiming that it does not exist.

If it does not exist then we cannot spend it.

If we can spend it then it does exist and can be saved.
Posted by fairly.unbalanced on May 17, 2012 at 11:13 AM
51
@45: If you don't want to hear the results of sports events a day after they happened you best stay off the Internet.

Oh, and Jermaine won "The Voice."

Posted by bigyaz on May 17, 2012 at 12:00 PM
52
@18,

Studies prove that sports arenas create a net loss in economic activity for a city. Money otherwise spent at small businesses gets spent at the stadium/arena itself, which almost exclusively benefits out-of-town investors and players. I'm afraid it's your reasoning that's flawed, not the least because it's based on assumptions and not on facts
Posted by keshmeshi on May 17, 2012 at 12:20 PM
53
To me the financing seems to pencil out, conceptually. I like basketball. But it just seems disingenuous to take a successful hedge-fund manager at his word that bankrolling an enormous capital project like this is mostly an act of passion. What kind of successful hedge-fund manager talks like that? The board of directors of any company getting involved with such a person should immediately throw him out of the window. We have heard a great deal in the last few days about the quantifiable possible benefits of the stadium deal to the city of Seattle. Why are we not hearing about the benefits to Hansen and his investment team? I agree with @48 above that our local press is sucking down pint after pint of delicious spin -- when does the investigative journalism start?
Posted by Sisterest on May 17, 2012 at 12:54 PM

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