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News & ArtsThursday, May 31, 2012
Booze Goodnight Moonshine
Posted by Dominic Holden on Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:54 PM
Goodnight fate and goodnight state.
Goodnight nags and goodnight flags.
Goodnight union powers and goodnight early hours.
6
I will never understand why people would want the State to being running retail establishments. Of all the things the government should or shouldn't be doing... people think retail is what government is good for? Really?
Anyway, closing the state liquor stores is a step toward sanity in my view. Liquor laws are still crazy, but we're moving in the direction of less crazy. Progress!
Anyway, closing the state liquor stores is a step toward sanity in my view. Liquor laws are still crazy, but we're moving in the direction of less crazy. Progress!
7
The liter tax will be dropped in 2014, so costs will be cut there And after infrastructure has been paid off the price will also drop as competition picks up
Besides the state has no business in the liquor business it should focus on the important stuff like health care and education.
Besides the state has no business in the liquor business it should focus on the important stuff like health care and education.
8
Stocked up on some good stuff at the Interbay store tonight, the selection left wasn't great, but got a Blanton's, Macallan, Pyrat, and Bulleit rye... Probably saved $50 plus vs tomorrow's prices based on the Wineworld site. Thanks for that heads up, fnarf!
9
@6 & 7 You clearly don't live in the u-district. I can't tell you how happy I am these college students will be running (& driving) around at the last second, not for beer, but whiskey.
And the bums, well they're dancing in the street.
Good morning higher crime & fatal DUI's!
And the bums, well they're dancing in the street.
Good morning higher crime & fatal DUI's!
10
@ 9
No I am not there, but many states have the privatized liquor and they seem to be doing fine. I'm not buying the scare tactics of it will all go to hell because of this.
No I am not there, but many states have the privatized liquor and they seem to be doing fine. I'm not buying the scare tactics of it will all go to hell because of this.
12
@10 "I'm not buying the scare tactics..."
Yeah, not until they plow into you and yours going 60 through a red light.
Yeah, not until they plow into you and yours going 60 through a red light.
13
Helloooo HIGH PRICES!!!!! But hey.. the market will bring those prices back down after a few months or years right? LOL!! Glad I stocked up.
But at least Frizzelle can have easier access to booze though he's gonna pay for it
But at least Frizzelle can have easier access to booze though he's gonna pay for it
14
I find myself somewhat melancholy as tonight at midnight all state liquor stores close for good.
Yes, in WA state only state-run liquor stores could sell hard alcohol (gin, rum, vodka, etc). Just about everywhere there can sell beer and wine.
Its odd coming from MO state, where not only can everyone sell everything (at last finally on Sunday - damn blue laws circa 1980) ... but we you can also drink everywhere, on the street etc. Witness Football Saturday outside Harpo's college/sports bar downtown.
WA State, for all its liberal leanings, has/had a liquor control policy that reminded one that prohibition had just ended a few years ago. A workshop I went to at an Electronic Dance Music conference in San Francisco back in 2008 (?) had an aide to state legislator saying that when he had researched California Liquor Laws, what he found is that all of them assumed that people in the liquor business (bars, stores, wholesalers, etc) were criminals -- because at the time the laws were made -- immediately following the repeal of prohibition -- all the people involved in the liquor business WERE criminals, and mostly members of the Mob. So the laws were written from that perspective. Of course that was 70 years ago....
"Modernization of Liquor Control Laws" - - the formal name for WA state is experiencing -- took place by a ballot initiative, something Midwestern states don't have. Basically anyone -- or any business/industry -- can plunk their money down, collect so many tens of thousands of signatures, and get an idea on the ballot for the whole state to vote on. On the one hand, that is very direct democracy. One the other hand a lot of crappy laws get passed, more than a few of which eventually get ruled as being unconstitutional, because the drafters of those laws are morons, but people vote to pass them anyway.
The State, and specifically the State legislature and the Liquor Control Board itself, had ample warning that the people were dissatisfied with the current state of affairs, where one could only buy hard liquor in state-run stores, many of which closed at 6 p.m. and weren't open on weekends. Several large retail chains, headed by Cosco Company (sort of a Northwest version of Sam's Club) started drafting initiatives, paying signature gatherers, and getting proposed laws before the voters that would terminate the state stores and let them sell hard liquor. After 3 tries over several years -- each one a bit more realistic and less wantonly greedy than the last -- they found the right mix of language that the voters went for and passed. And as of June 1, 2012, all state stores must close, and only retailers with at least 10,000 square feet of store space are allowed to sell hard liquor. No corner convenience stores, no mom and pop specialty shops, just the big guys: Cosco, QFC/Kroger, Safeway, Fred Meyer and Wal Mart, etc.
Could the state legislature and/or the State Liquor Control Board have proposed and enacted changes to the way alcohol is sold in this state, responding to the will of the people, who voted a bit more for each new initiative put on the ballot by big chains? Absolutely! Did they? No! Way too chicken ... or lazy. Or something ... As a result you have what seems to be a common situation in blue-leaning WA State: the politicians and bureaucrats refuse to take action even when the writing is on the wall, and what takes place is an really awful alliance of big business -- who's primary motive is greed, not customer benefit -- and the populist voters, many of whom realize the Faustian bargain they are agreeing to by voting for the initiatives trotted out by big business, but who feel that, to ever get any change at all, they must settle for the least odoriferous of the obviously self-serving initiative provided by big business. And so it is...
I'll miss the WA State employees who worked at the State Liquor Stores and who earned a living wage and decent benefits. Many of them will no doubt find a job at one of the big chains ... for less wages, no benefits (state will have to pick up health care costs through their emergency room visits no doubt) and no retirement (taxpayers will again have the joy of covering the living costs of these folks, so that big business can increase profits). And that concludes another chapter in the "liberal" state of Washington -- where big business never had it so good.
More...
Yes, in WA state only state-run liquor stores could sell hard alcohol (gin, rum, vodka, etc). Just about everywhere there can sell beer and wine.
Its odd coming from MO state, where not only can everyone sell everything (at last finally on Sunday - damn blue laws circa 1980) ... but we you can also drink everywhere, on the street etc. Witness Football Saturday outside Harpo's college/sports bar downtown.
WA State, for all its liberal leanings, has/had a liquor control policy that reminded one that prohibition had just ended a few years ago. A workshop I went to at an Electronic Dance Music conference in San Francisco back in 2008 (?) had an aide to state legislator saying that when he had researched California Liquor Laws, what he found is that all of them assumed that people in the liquor business (bars, stores, wholesalers, etc) were criminals -- because at the time the laws were made -- immediately following the repeal of prohibition -- all the people involved in the liquor business WERE criminals, and mostly members of the Mob. So the laws were written from that perspective. Of course that was 70 years ago....
"Modernization of Liquor Control Laws" - - the formal name for WA state is experiencing -- took place by a ballot initiative, something Midwestern states don't have. Basically anyone -- or any business/industry -- can plunk their money down, collect so many tens of thousands of signatures, and get an idea on the ballot for the whole state to vote on. On the one hand, that is very direct democracy. One the other hand a lot of crappy laws get passed, more than a few of which eventually get ruled as being unconstitutional, because the drafters of those laws are morons, but people vote to pass them anyway.
The State, and specifically the State legislature and the Liquor Control Board itself, had ample warning that the people were dissatisfied with the current state of affairs, where one could only buy hard liquor in state-run stores, many of which closed at 6 p.m. and weren't open on weekends. Several large retail chains, headed by Cosco Company (sort of a Northwest version of Sam's Club) started drafting initiatives, paying signature gatherers, and getting proposed laws before the voters that would terminate the state stores and let them sell hard liquor. After 3 tries over several years -- each one a bit more realistic and less wantonly greedy than the last -- they found the right mix of language that the voters went for and passed. And as of June 1, 2012, all state stores must close, and only retailers with at least 10,000 square feet of store space are allowed to sell hard liquor. No corner convenience stores, no mom and pop specialty shops, just the big guys: Cosco, QFC/Kroger, Safeway, Fred Meyer and Wal Mart, etc.
Could the state legislature and/or the State Liquor Control Board have proposed and enacted changes to the way alcohol is sold in this state, responding to the will of the people, who voted a bit more for each new initiative put on the ballot by big chains? Absolutely! Did they? No! Way too chicken ... or lazy. Or something ... As a result you have what seems to be a common situation in blue-leaning WA State: the politicians and bureaucrats refuse to take action even when the writing is on the wall, and what takes place is an really awful alliance of big business -- who's primary motive is greed, not customer benefit -- and the populist voters, many of whom realize the Faustian bargain they are agreeing to by voting for the initiatives trotted out by big business, but who feel that, to ever get any change at all, they must settle for the least odoriferous of the obviously self-serving initiative provided by big business. And so it is...
I'll miss the WA State employees who worked at the State Liquor Stores and who earned a living wage and decent benefits. Many of them will no doubt find a job at one of the big chains ... for less wages, no benefits (state will have to pick up health care costs through their emergency room visits no doubt) and no retirement (taxpayers will again have the joy of covering the living costs of these folks, so that big business can increase profits). And that concludes another chapter in the "liberal" state of Washington -- where big business never had it so good.
15
@9, 10: So you're worried about college students getting wasted once they have easier access to hard liquor? Do _you_ live in the U-District? Because I do, and I'm pretty sure the students around here get pretty shitfaced now. All that is going to happen is they'll buy fewer cases of beer and more bottles of Jack.
20
It's not a debate, it's not speculation, it's clear scientific fact - when liquor is privatized, more people drink liquor, and liquor deaths increase, and not by a small amount. Gun sale laws and alcohol sale laws aren't so different.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11…
Lots more: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&…
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11…
Conclusions The rapidly rising densities of private liquor stores in British Columbia from 2003 to 2008 was associated with a significant local-area increase in rates of alcohol-related death.
Lots more: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&…
21
I was just in Safeway on 35th Ave NE and let me say one thing... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!!!! And the selection? That's even funnier! And if you like smaller name brands...good luck finding them. Maybe on line?
Oh well, enjoy that sticker shock at the cash register gang!!!
Oh well, enjoy that sticker shock at the cash register gang!!!
24
The moral scolds and pearl clutchers will have a field day until it turns out that the world hasn't ended, and things are actually better.
Iowa got rid of state liquor stores when I was in college back in the bronze age. I was living in Iowa City at the time - a place that makes the U District look like Oral Roberts University - and the drinking age was, I believe, still 19. We all lived through it, and I don't remember a big uptick in liquor consumption (of course, with promotions like dime pitchers, it would be hard to compete)
As for the Liquor Control Board, one third of their purposeless, redundant mission has been eliminated. That leaves them to make moralistic decisions on things like hours of operation (that local municipalities could do quicker and cheaper) and enforcement (which, in reality, the police actually do.)
And let's not forget the twice-a-year, full color glossy poster that they produce that says the exact same thing (basically, that it takes less liquor to get a women drunk.) year after year, and is always posted in a broom closet or someplace where it is guaranteed that no one will have to read it.
I won't miss the stores. But then again, I don't drink hard liquor.
Iowa got rid of state liquor stores when I was in college back in the bronze age. I was living in Iowa City at the time - a place that makes the U District look like Oral Roberts University - and the drinking age was, I believe, still 19. We all lived through it, and I don't remember a big uptick in liquor consumption (of course, with promotions like dime pitchers, it would be hard to compete)
As for the Liquor Control Board, one third of their purposeless, redundant mission has been eliminated. That leaves them to make moralistic decisions on things like hours of operation (that local municipalities could do quicker and cheaper) and enforcement (which, in reality, the police actually do.)
And let's not forget the twice-a-year, full color glossy poster that they produce that says the exact same thing (basically, that it takes less liquor to get a women drunk.) year after year, and is always posted in a broom closet or someplace where it is guaranteed that no one will have to read it.
I won't miss the stores. But then again, I don't drink hard liquor.
25
Prices are lower here in Maryland than in our neighboring state Pennsylvania, which has state run liquor stores. I went camping last weekend up there. Talk about sticker shock. I'd say the average price in PA was $3 to $5 higher. Competition is a good thing.
26
I sure won't miss shopping in those grim, unpleasant stores. Someone once compared shopping there to buying pornography at the post office, and it always seemed apt.
27
@25... I was thinking the same thing. I was wondering so many were commenting about prices getting higher. We go to West Virginia and Maryland for lower prices. Maybe it's because there isn't enough competition yet?
30
TVDinner - THIS! "Someone once compared shopping there to buying pornography at the post office" -- YES!
32
@31:
Based on these photos, I can already see the poor selection; going to have to wait a few weeks (or whenever I feel a desperate need to restock) before seeing the higher prices.
Based on these photos, I can already see the poor selection; going to have to wait a few weeks (or whenever I feel a desperate need to restock) before seeing the higher prices.
33
So has anyone seen a local distillery bottles around yet? Where can I get my Pacific Northwest favorites? (other than going directly to the source)
34
@9: Ironically enough, I do live in the U-District. Or right next to it anyway in Ravenna.
I don't just don't happen to believe that having a retarded way to sell liquor makes us any safer. I haven't noticed any of the stupid drunk people having trouble finding a way to get stupid drunk as it stands now.
I don't just don't happen to believe that having a retarded way to sell liquor makes us any safer. I haven't noticed any of the stupid drunk people having trouble finding a way to get stupid drunk as it stands now.
35
@6 I think you see the reasons here in the story and the comments: social engineering, public sector unionism, trust in a state monopoly to make retail business decisions on things like price and selection.
36
Has no one here ever moved around? I've lived in private and non-private states and the ones with private sales are unquestionably better in terms of both selection and competitive pricing. Why do so many expect Washington to be so different? We aren't that special, here, you know...
37
A few people at my local QFC were shopping at the Broadway State liquor store while I was in there stocking up yesterday. Why? Because they knew their fave brands weren't going to be carried and that prices would be higher. As for taxers going down in 2014, why is that good? Less state revenue is what it means. Prices won't go down when taxes do, corporations don't give up money after customers have been habituated to higher prices. We already pay more here for food than most of the country already, why not liquor?
38
If selection really is a factor for you- large liquor warehouses will pop up, as they have everywhere else where Liquor is sold privately. And guess what? The selection will actually be BETTER than a state run store!
It will probably look something like this:
http://www.goldrushliquor.com/index.htm
For most people, the popular brands will do just fine, so that's what grocery stores will stock. In places like Capitol Hill, where grocery stores carry more specialty wine and beer selections, you'll probably see a better selection of liquor as well. Stores will stock what they think people will buy. Simple as that.
It will probably look something like this:
http://www.goldrushliquor.com/index.htm
For most people, the popular brands will do just fine, so that's what grocery stores will stock. In places like Capitol Hill, where grocery stores carry more specialty wine and beer selections, you'll probably see a better selection of liquor as well. Stores will stock what they think people will buy. Simple as that.
39
Count me in as excited. Selection at safeway and QFCs is of course going to be mediocre, no better than their beer or Wine selection. But have you seen the spirits list at Wine World? they have stuff listed that state stores never carried and no state store ever had all that variety in a single store and they even have an extensive Northwest Spirits list. And its going to get even better once BevMo and other larger chains start opening up. the whole price thing will sort itself out as
40
What's interesting is the first "liquor warehouse" opening in Bellevue is going to have a pretty substantial beer and wine selection. And Wine World and Spirits is looking for suggestions on what liquor to stock: http://wineworldspirits.com/selection/.
41
@39, what stuff that a state store never carried? I haven't looked that hard at their list, but what I saw looked pretty basic to me. Plus the 75% increase in price, of course.
42
I've been excited, as I lived in California for a while, where you can buy as much liquor as you want at corner stores all over the place (all of which had plenty of selection).
I went to Safeway this morning to grab some stuff for dinner tonight, and added to my cart one of the same things I always bought at the state store:a 1.75 liter bottle of JD Old #7. Price in the state store? $50.95. Price today (all told, with tax)? $47.56.
I also could have bought a bottle of Pendleton, or Woodford Reserve, but I already have my nicer bottle of whiskey on the shelf here at home.
I'm not really worried about going to Wine World or where ever to buy the more rare items that I rarely buy.
I went to Safeway this morning to grab some stuff for dinner tonight, and added to my cart one of the same things I always bought at the state store:a 1.75 liter bottle of JD Old #7. Price in the state store? $50.95. Price today (all told, with tax)? $47.56.
I also could have bought a bottle of Pendleton, or Woodford Reserve, but I already have my nicer bottle of whiskey on the shelf here at home.
I'm not really worried about going to Wine World or where ever to buy the more rare items that I rarely buy.
43
@41
75%? Yesterday it was only 35%. When will you make up your mind about what bullshit you are going to spout?
75%? Yesterday it was only 35%. When will you make up your mind about what bullshit you are going to spout?
44
75% increase? Uh. I just went and bought some bourbon and it was CHEAPER. I'm sure some stuff wil get marked up, but 75%? Jesus. Come on.
On preview: like #42 said.
On preview: like #42 said.
46
It's going to take time for this to shake out. Anyone who really expected Safeway to have a vast liquor selection was delusional anyway.
49
@43 et al: I was going by the posted prices on Wine World's online shopping page and comparing them to the prices listed in my copy of WSLCB's April 2012 price sheet. Actual facts.
I wasn't talking about common items like Jack Daniel.
I wasn't talking about common items like Jack Daniel.
50
So, to all those claiming that selection will be lower and prices higher, what are you basing that on? What states with state run liquor stores have better selections and lower prices than states with private stores?
51
Again, liquor stores here in MD have both lower prices, and more selection than the neighboring states that have state run liquor stores. We have a couple of stores in the Baltimore area that are the size of supermarkets.
53
@52, suck my balls, munghole. And the word is "backpedal". Which does not describe anything I have said here.
Also, Bella may be adding the liquor tax back in to her (hugely marked-down on sale) price, but not the sales tax, which is also charged.
@50, it doesn't have anything to do with "states". It has to do with specific WA conditions which may or may not stick around, like the fact that we have only two distributors in this state, and the fact that the WSLCB stores shared a common distribution system, which made ordering anything not on their regular price list insanely difficult but anything ON it easy as pie, especially in remoter areas. People in East Bumfuck, or even the further suburbs, are going to be totally screwed unless they can persuade a 10,000 sq. ft. store to open there. Most WSLCB stores actually had a pretty outstanding selection, since it was based on the purchasing of the entire state. There are private stores in private states with better ones, but they are few and far between. Most BevMos in California, for instance, are considerably worse than my local was here, though a couple of them were better. The kind of specialty store along the lines of Bottleworks in Wallingford for beer is still illegal here.
I just did a quick check at QFC, which has a godawful selection, about ten feet worth, and noticed that no, the liquor tax is not included in the sticker price, but is in most cases shown in the small print. And it's VERY CONFUSING. It's supposedly 20.5% liquor tax and $3.7708 per liter tax (not including sales tax), but I checked two bottles side by side, Cazadores and Patron Silver tequila, and the former had a total tax of $3, less than half the state tax figure shown on the price sheet, and the latter had a TWENTY dollar tax, almost twice the state figure you would have paid yesterday -- an increase on the state price of 16% before tax and 27% after it. And that's for common goods like Patron.
So I'm thinking the stores are having trouble figuring out the tax system too.
More...
Also, Bella may be adding the liquor tax back in to her (hugely marked-down on sale) price, but not the sales tax, which is also charged.
@50, it doesn't have anything to do with "states". It has to do with specific WA conditions which may or may not stick around, like the fact that we have only two distributors in this state, and the fact that the WSLCB stores shared a common distribution system, which made ordering anything not on their regular price list insanely difficult but anything ON it easy as pie, especially in remoter areas. People in East Bumfuck, or even the further suburbs, are going to be totally screwed unless they can persuade a 10,000 sq. ft. store to open there. Most WSLCB stores actually had a pretty outstanding selection, since it was based on the purchasing of the entire state. There are private stores in private states with better ones, but they are few and far between. Most BevMos in California, for instance, are considerably worse than my local was here, though a couple of them were better. The kind of specialty store along the lines of Bottleworks in Wallingford for beer is still illegal here.
I just did a quick check at QFC, which has a godawful selection, about ten feet worth, and noticed that no, the liquor tax is not included in the sticker price, but is in most cases shown in the small print. And it's VERY CONFUSING. It's supposedly 20.5% liquor tax and $3.7708 per liter tax (not including sales tax), but I checked two bottles side by side, Cazadores and Patron Silver tequila, and the former had a total tax of $3, less than half the state tax figure shown on the price sheet, and the latter had a TWENTY dollar tax, almost twice the state figure you would have paid yesterday -- an increase on the state price of 16% before tax and 27% after it. And that's for common goods like Patron.
So I'm thinking the stores are having trouble figuring out the tax system too.
54
@52 Don't you get it yet? Old Fatnarf is never wrong. Even when his bullshit "real facts" are disputed by real facts. But that doesn't matter either because he will just look down his nose at people for liking Jack Daniels as a last second dodge.
Oh also, goodnight blue law for pearl-clutching school-marms.
Oh also, goodnight blue law for pearl-clutching school-marms.
55
I just perused the Top Food weekly flyer and they are prominently featuring Ebb+Flow vodka and gin. Top Food/Haagen has always been good about trying to source local, so it's nice to see that philosophy extended.
56
@53 My small typo is nothing compared to the nonsense that spews from your mouth here on a daily basis. (and munghole? Really? Are we twelve years old trying to insult me with a gay slur?)
@54 Oh I know fnarf is never wrong. So much so that he makes Bailo look almost normal. I am a firm believer that he and WiS are actually the same person furiously masturbating against themselves forcing us to watch.
@54 Oh I know fnarf is never wrong. So much so that he makes Bailo look almost normal. I am a firm believer that he and WiS are actually the same person furiously masturbating against themselves forcing us to watch.
57
Actually many, many more union members will now be involved in the sale of alcohol in Washington State. Safeway, QFC and other major outlets are unionized.
58
Oh - and goodnight you fucking whiners who think that the state has to run liquor stores in order to protect us from ourselves.
Hint: same whiners would shit themselves if the state took over pot sales.
Hint: same whiners would shit themselves if the state took over pot sales.
59
Jesus Christ, Fnarf. Would it kill you admit you were wrong every once in a while instead of immediately going to red fucking alert. You're gonna pop a vessel.
60
Prices are definitely up in Spokane, at least for basics like Tanqueray. State store was about $23 per fifth and the supermarket price is now anywhere from $32 to $38 depending on the store. On the other hand, when Total Wine and Good Spirits open here, I might not have to drive all the way across the fucking state for a bottle of Yellow Chartreuse because the only state stores that sold it were in Seattle and unless I was buying a case of it they wouldn't send it to me out here in the sticks.
61
Actually, Fnarf, I added both the Washington State liquor tax and the really high sales tax. I believe the price of the bottle was 33.99, the state tax was 6.60 and the sales tax was...6.93? I'm not doing the math right now as I'm leaving for dinner, but that was everything. I added it this morning. I don't lie : )
62
@56, "munghole" is not a gay slur.
I have provided evidence of a bottle with a 75% increase in price. In the other thread I provided evidence of a different bottle with an 87% increase in price. So you should fuck the fuck off.
I have provided evidence of a bottle with a 75% increase in price. In the other thread I provided evidence of a different bottle with an 87% increase in price. So you should fuck the fuck off.
63
came here to enjoy the whining by the usual suspects, followed by name-calling, accusations, and forgetfulness of the actual topic at hand.
Leaving satisfied, as usual.
PS, regular old drunks like myself are quite happy with what's now available at QFC, until 10 every day, allowing me to at least get a price break on the gas I also buy at QFC.
Only drink Blantons? Move somewhere else -- snobbery has no place in Seattle.
Leaving satisfied, as usual.
PS, regular old drunks like myself are quite happy with what's now available at QFC, until 10 every day, allowing me to at least get a price break on the gas I also buy at QFC.
Only drink Blantons? Move somewhere else -- snobbery has no place in Seattle.
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