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Friday, June 8, 2012

SL Letter of the Day: Pout It Out

Posted by on Fri, Jun 8, 2012 at 3:01 PM

So I'm a 22-year-old woman who is in love with my fiancé. He's a great man, awesome dad, brilliant, intelligent, handsome, all my friends want him. The problem: He doesn't get me to have an orgasm. We have sex about once or twice a week and when he's done climaxing I get out my vibrator and he licks my nipples and that gets me off. The ten times I've come while we were making love during the four years we've been together were the most amazing feelings I've ever felt. I dated one guy before him and I always had an orgasm with him so it's frustrating that I can't have one with the man I want to spend the rest of my life with. Because of this, sex is something I'd rather not do with him because I know I'm not gonna get pleasure out of it. I love him very much so I fake orgasm with him because I don't want to hurt him. I've talked to him about it and instead of coming up with solutions and doing them, he gets hurt and I feels guilty and I let it go. Please help us. I want to make love to my fiance and enjoy the aftermath.

What Happened Around Arousal

My response after the jump...

···························

Different people's bodies fit together in different ways, WHAA.

With your previous boyfriend—your only other sex partner—your bodies fit together perfectly and you got off every time. That wasn't skill, WHAA, that was luck. With your ex you were getting just the kind of direct, intense clitoral stimulation you needed to climax during sex. You got it without having to talk about it or work on it. Things are different with your current sex partner—things are more typical—and you're going to have to talk about sex and communicate with each other and experiment until you find the combo of positions, intensities, speeds, toys, etc., that make it possible for you to get off during sex with him.

Basically, WHAA, you gotta switch things up—you gotta try different positions, you gotta find new grinds, you might even need to bust out your vibrator and use it while he's fucking you (not just after)—until you discover the positions, acts, and combos that work for you two.

But you're not going to be able to do that until your fiance stops pouting when you give him feedback, WHAA, and he's not going to stop pouting until the pouting stops working. So long as you allow him to manipulate you with those sad faces—"he gets hurt and I feel guilty and I let it go"—he'll keep it up. So no more faking orgasm, WHAA, and no more dropping the subject when he sticks out his lower lip. Tell him you're going to start mixing it up and trying new things until you discover what works for you two.

 

Comments (69) RSS

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1
22 yr. old baby mama worried about her orgasm. Way to get your priorities right.
Posted by Have baby daddy get you more double As on June 8, 2012 at 3:09 PM · Report this
2
The part that confuses me is "sex is something I'd rather not do with him because I know I'm not gonna get pleasure out of it."

Does it not still feel good, even if you don't orgasm during penetration? Is it still not FUN? Is it not worth it for the reciprocation you receive afterwords with your vibrator?

I understand fond memories of an sex with an ex, but sounds like she's pretty hung up on it and letting it ruin her current relationship.

Not that I don't also agree with Dan's advice; just looking to augment it.
Posted by stealingzen on June 8, 2012 at 3:10 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 3
I don't think she really loves him. I think she loves the image he projects to the world; especially by the fact that he's wanted by other women, which raises her self-esteem. But the person he really is, an immature bitch who emotionally abuses her for his own inadequacy, is not someone worthy of her love.

What's sad is that she'd be willing to give up her entire life so she can marry that image, and deal w/ the immature brat of his true self. Since she wrote to Dan, however, shows that she's not giving up on *true* love. So WHAA, dear, you're going to have to figure out if you want to marry for love or for image.

Listen to Dan, stop the faking & stick up for yourself. No man is "great" unless he respects his woman. And he won't respect you if you don't respect yourself.

Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on June 8, 2012 at 3:22 PM · Report this
4
Wait, what? "and when he's done climaxing I get out my vibrator and he licks my nipples and that gets me off.

So, if I read that right, you are still getting an orgasm at every encounter, just not during intercourse. And he's HELPING you get that orgasm. And for this, your response is to not want to have sex with him any more? Who's the pouty one, again?

No wonder he's unhappy with your responses.
Posted by avast2006 on June 8, 2012 at 3:24 PM · Report this
5
Sex is like a Reese's cup: there's no wrong way.

The sooner you stop caring about what's supposed to work, the sooner you can start focusing on what does work. Getting off using your vibrator while he licks your nipples still sounds like sex to me.
Posted by Ben on June 8, 2012 at 3:24 PM · Report this
debug 6
She doesn't say if she's the mom or if her fiance is a dad by some other woman. But if she did have a baby, that will change many women's sexual response - sometimes permanently. Happened to my wife after kids.

Instead of freaking out I got her a Hitachi Magic Wand and she uses it to get her there when normal sex or oral can't. No big deal.

Weirdly enough a decade later she's starting to be more like she was pre-kids, not needing the HMW every time. Could be turning 40?
Posted by debug on June 8, 2012 at 3:25 PM · Report this
7
For their sakes, I hope they have a very long engagement - long enough to either figure this shit out or figure out that they'd be better off apart.
Posted by ridia on June 8, 2012 at 3:26 PM · Report this
AnberNen 8
This letter is confusing. She fakes an orgasm, *then* she gets out her vibrator? How is he buying the faked orgasm if she gets out her vibrator afterwards?

And while it sucks that he gets all pouty and doesn't come up with solutions, it sounds like the LW doesn't come up with solutions either, she waits for him to do it, even though she probably knows better than he does what's missing that she needs to get off.

Both of these people sound like they need to grow up and start communicating like mature adults.
Posted by AnberNen on June 8, 2012 at 3:28 PM · Report this
ArtBasketSara 9
Yawn...WHAA are you sure that your partner doesn't also have some weird sex fetish...say, dresses like a freaky clown and wants to include you in his sex-for-pay business aspirations?? No? Darn. Back to work...
Posted by ArtBasketSara on June 8, 2012 at 3:29 PM · Report this
Max Solomon 10
What is your fiance not doing that other guy did?It's either mechanical or psychological.
Posted by Max Solomon on June 8, 2012 at 3:33 PM · Report this
11
Stop faking the orgasms, for several reasons:

1) You resent it.
2) You are training him to keep trying things that don't work for you, because the feedback you are giving him is that those things feel fucking wonderful. Stop lying to him about what feels good.
3) Having established that you have been faking -- that is, lying to him -- he now has no trust that anything you say about what he is doing can be trusted in the moment.

So take responsibility, acknowledge that that was a big mistake, and commit to honesty in your relationship. Starting with...

"instead of coming up with solutions and doing them, he gets hurt"

Of course he doesn't come up with solutions and then do them. He doesn't know what to do to please you. THAT'S YOUR JOB. IT'S YOUR BODY. Did you forget that he doesn't have access to your nervous system? That he doesn't have real-time feedback on what works and what doesn't? (Except for the disinformation you've been feeding him while faking it?) You have to figure out what works for you, and then TELL HIM.

Preferably not right in the moment; for now, the established dynamic is that that is disinformation. Try talking about this offline, in a less charged moment. And try to display a little enthusiasm for the project. He has already figured out that you would rather throw in the towel; no wonder he's discouraged. (You don't sound like you are all that thrilled with the situation yourself, but you expect him to buck up when you'd rather forget the whole thing? Not gonna work.) Tell him things you would like to try, and try to make it sound like you really WOULD like to try them.
Posted by avast2006 on June 8, 2012 at 3:43 PM · Report this
ryanayr 12
@4 - beat me to it. And agree
Posted by ryanayr on June 8, 2012 at 3:50 PM · Report this
seandr 13
LW - what exactly did the ex do differently than your fiance? Is it a particular motion, position, or tempo that did it for you with the other guy?

If there's a specific something that gets you off, just ask your fiance for that specific something, and don't get into the reasons why or anything else that might make him feel unmanly or defensive.

For example, next time you're fucking, say "Hey, I'm going to get on top and grind my clit against your pelvic bone for a bit. Could you could hold my ass and give it the occasional slap while I'm going at it?" How could a fella feel hurt by that?

If it's something he can't fix - e.g., his dick isn't big enough, he doesn't have that smoldering bad-boy sexual intensity your ex did - then hmm, you've got quite a dilemma on your hands.
Posted by seandr on June 8, 2012 at 4:08 PM · Report this
14
@6: Very, very good point. Letter Writer, are you the mom?
Posted by avast2006 on June 8, 2012 at 4:15 PM · Report this
OutInBumF 15
Couples' inability to communicate re: sex in 2012 still shocks me. I guess for straights, there are still a lot of 'furtive, in-the-dark, stick-it-in-cum-and-go-to-sleepers' out there.
For all of Dan's oeuvre, I'll bet there are many (50-60%?!) who don't even think oral is standard equipment. It would be interesting to have a Kinsey or Masters&Johnson style survey done of American sexual practices.
Posted by OutInBumF on June 8, 2012 at 4:22 PM · Report this
OutInBumF 16
@13- 'smoldering bad-boy sexual intensity'... I'm betting it's more that than anything else.
Posted by OutInBumF on June 8, 2012 at 4:27 PM · Report this
balderdash 17
Her writing is weirdly clumsy. I wonder if it's ESL or if she's just not very bright. The nature of the problem suggests it's the latter but I don't want to make assumptions.

Anyway, the real issue here is that you're saying all this shit in a letter to Dan instead of to your fiance, WHAA. Of course, you're 22, so I guess it's understandable if you haven't picked up yet on the fact that boning does not endow a couple with a telepathic link.

Okay, okay! I'm sorry if I'm being mean. I don't know why my snark-phasers are set to kill today. You didn't really do anything mortally wrong, WHAA. You just made some clueless but entirely ordinary assumptions. Stop making them, then talk to your fiance about this issue. Don't let him weasel out of the conversation, and listen to what he has to say in return because this is not all his fault. Listen to Dan.
Posted by balderdash http://introverse.blogspot.com on June 8, 2012 at 4:34 PM · Report this
18
@1 Yeah, those selfish slut whore bitchez would rather come than be mothers. Go figure. BTW, where did it say that SHE was the mom?
Posted by maddogm13 on June 8, 2012 at 5:05 PM · Report this
19
Who said she was getting (or needed) direct, intense clitoral stimulation to orgasm during sex?
Posted by jzimbert on June 8, 2012 at 5:09 PM · Report this
20
@11: You are so right about her not taking responsibility for her orgasm.

@2, 4, 5: Honestly, it would be one thing if she didn't get off from vaginal intercourse at all. But with her ex, she "always" got off during sex. Vibrators are great and all, but preferring an orgasm from intercourse to one from a vibrator doesn't make her a bad person. And sure, sex without an orgasm can still be fun, but going from getting off every time to getting off 10 times in 4 years? I can imagine what she's going through, and honestly, I would've broken up with him already. I also would've tried a zillion different positions and tried to figure out exactly why I wasn't getting there with him, but if there was nothing left to try and he still wasn't getting me there, I probably would've just broken it off.
Posted by alguna_rubia on June 8, 2012 at 5:29 PM · Report this
sirkowski 21
She's omitting a lot of info.
Posted by sirkowski http://www.missdynamite.com on June 8, 2012 at 5:30 PM · Report this
22
I'm with @4...I thought Dan was going to tell HER to stop pouting.
Posted by genevieve on June 8, 2012 at 6:16 PM · Report this
23
@20: She also has apparently had a kid sometime after Old Boyfriend, which makes it a totally unfair comparison, but she hasn't figured out why that might be. Given her ripe old age of 22 -- and that she was under 18 while she was with Old Boyfriend -- she probably still has a toddler, which can screw with headspace ("I'm a mommy now") or situation ("shh, he'll hear us!") or resilience ("he's been touching me all day and now you want some nookie?"); probably still short on sleep; maybe still breastfeeding, which can definitely screw up the hormones; perhaps new birth control, which can screw up the hormones; maybe depressed from the stresses of motherhood, which can mess with the libido; maybe an episiotomy or tearing that caused some nerve damage down there; do I need to go on? And then the final thing is the self-fulfilling prophecy of worrying about it.

Bottom line is, the reality may be that her drastic change in sexual response may be because SHE is the one who has drastically changed. She should give that some serious consideration before putting this on Hubby's inadequacy and pouty attitude.

"I also would've tried a zillion different positions and tried to figure out exactly why I wasn't getting there with him,"

Yes, exactly, but there isn't a lot of evidence in the letter that she has done this. All we've heard is that she has faked orgasms, then expected him to divine what gets her off now, because that's how it worked when she was 17.

And then, well, all of the above. Would you dump your husband because your episiotomy scar damaged a nerve?
Posted by avast2006 on June 8, 2012 at 6:32 PM · Report this
zachd 24
Don't fake your orgasm. That's terrible, and as well noted is only compounding the issue. Have you tried running through the Kamu Sutra, making sure that perhaps the Dirty Angel isn't the right position for the two of you?

And yeah: the rest of the sex, other than the coming part, should be pretty excellent too. What's missing there? For some people, it's possible to have a great time making out/being sensual. Maybe you're not, but if you're not and really need to come to make it worth your limited time-- seems like you're young enough to find someone more your speed/size/shape. :\
Posted by zachd http://zachd.com on June 8, 2012 at 6:52 PM · Report this
25
"All my friends want him"? LMB.

"He doesn't get me to have an orgasm"? LW should have made that clear in the Job Description.

If only he weren't pouting, I could give this LW a DYA quite happily. If I were in Recruiter Mode, I could take it even a step beyond that.
Posted by vennominon on June 8, 2012 at 7:23 PM · Report this
26
Thanks for the support and the discontent everyone. To the person who said I was not bright, I'm a 4.0 student at a private university earning two bachelors. Since when did complaining about sex made someone a buffon? As for the questions about motherhood and his level of endowment I'm not the mother and he's very well endowed. I'm also as sexual as they come. I enjoy toys, movie and many other activities that sparks up sex. I've purchased different books and movies to use as a guide and still nothing. I'm the second woman he's ever been with so for the first couple of years I was very patient in helping him to give me the pleasure that I gave him. There have been numerous times were we watched porn focusing on oral sex as a starter activity for him, but that hasn't worked. I've tried jerking him off hours before so he can last longer, but that hasn't worked because he gets in and he's done within five. I love watching him enjoy himself with me, all I want is to have the same enjoyment. In any case, I really appreciate the comments. Keep them coming.
Posted by Aqua69 on June 8, 2012 at 7:53 PM · Report this
27
" To the person who said I was not bright, I'm a 4.0 student at a private university earning two bachelors."

That's not all there is to intelligence.

"I'm the second woman he's ever been with so for the first couple of years I was very patient in helping him to give me the pleasure that I gave him. There have been numerous times were we watched porn focusing on oral sex as a starter activity for him, but that hasn't worked. I've tried jerking him off hours before so he can last longer, but that hasn't worked because he gets in and he's done within five."

For example, marrying him when he's terrible at sex.

Posted by how long did you wait for it to get better? on June 8, 2012 at 8:31 PM · Report this
seandr 28
@26: he's done within five

Maybe try multiple shots on goals. Usually takes longer to score the second time. If he has trouble getting it up for round two, have him take a boner pill.

Or, have him wear a condom that is too tight.

Or, find a way to get him out of the moment and not let him enjoy himself too much. Maybe have him talk dirty to you - that might pull him out of his head as he has to think of you and what he's going to say.
Posted by seandr on June 8, 2012 at 8:51 PM · Report this
29
@27. I'm marrying him because I love him. As you probably know. Relationships based on sex ends twice as quickly as they started.
Posted by Aqua69 on June 8, 2012 at 9:13 PM · Report this
30
@29, yes, relationships based on sex don't generally last. But romantic relationships without satisfying sex (when both partners are not asexual) ALSO don't last.

Level with him. Tell him you've faked it a few times in the past, but you don't want to do that anymore. Figure out what it is that you need to orgasm while he's fucking you. Have this conversation on the couch, while dressed--not naked in bed. Approach it as an issue for you to solve as a couple, not as a problem he's created or must fix himself.

Is an orgasm while it's PiV really what you need? Would other kinds penetration work for you--his hand, or a dildo? Make it a game! have fun! "Honey, we're just going to have to practice a whole lot!"
Posted by clashfan on June 8, 2012 at 9:33 PM · Report this
31
@26 and 29:
It sounds like he was willing to learn, and still you are not able to have an orgasm with him the way you want to: during PiV sex.

As @4 and 30 said: Despite him helping you to get off after he comes, you sound to me like you blame him for doing it wrong. No wonder if he is a bit defensive about it.

Maybe you should dump him so that he can find someone who is sexually compatible with him.

And maybe I just feel annoyed with you because of your whiny self-entitled tone.
Posted by migrationist on June 8, 2012 at 9:47 PM · Report this
32
@26: Thanks for the clarifications. The kid not being yours makes a huge difference in where the advice is heading.

Is the problem purely that he comes too soon? How old is he? If he's anywhere near your age, his refractory period should be such that jerking him off "hours before" should be about the same as jerking him off "weeks before" -- in other words, the same as not doing it at all. Why not minutes before? Why not just go for round two in the same session? Surely he will last longer than 5 minutes for orgasm number two or three? How long does it take him to get ready again?

"for the first couple of years I was very patient in helping him to give me the pleasure that I gave him." What does this mean, exactly? About the only thing I get out of it is that somewhere along the way you lost patience, which tells me that at this point anxiety is probably playing a role in making it a vicious cycle.

"I've purchased different books and movies to use as a guide and still nothing." Again, what does this mean? Is it that he is making no effort to improve his skills at finding your good spots? Or just that the books have done nothing about him coming too quickly?

Same advice from me, basically, as from seandr. Condom, if you aren't already using them. It reduces sensation. Go for the second and third try. Work on distracting him or getting him to slow down when he starts peaking -- with the enticement that delayed orgasms are stronger orgasms. Along the same lines, he should try bringing himself close and then backing off, using his own hand. Tell him to not watch the porn stars; incessant high speed banging is the path to overstimulation. Try switching positions. Not only will that help you two find positions that work really well for you, stopping and repositioning will slow him down.
More...
Posted by avast2006 on June 8, 2012 at 9:58 PM · Report this
33
"I've tried jerking him off hours before so he can last longer, but that hasn't worked because he gets in and he's done within five."

Whooooah there cowgirl. That's a pretty important bit of info that might have helped Dan field this one. I've yet to meet a woman who can be "done within five" with any regularity (and yet to meet a man who can't be).

First things first -- it sounds like your man needs to learn to take longer. Unpleasant sex is worse than no sex at all, and it sounds like there's a power dynamic between the 2 of you that needs working through.

Maybe you should wait a *lot* longer before you "let him in". Like, say, a week or 2 or 3. No need to be cruel, I'm guessing he wouldn't turn down hand-, blow-, or tit- jobs. Fut make him work before he gets to fuck-you-down-there. You can even make this fun and sexy, a game to tease him and prove his love.

But you can't just lay there and act like everything's ok. Because it ain't.
Posted by x14n on June 9, 2012 at 1:50 AM · Report this
34
Or maybe just accept that you are in the same boat as most women - find it difficult to get off during PiV, except in certain circumstances with certain partners.

You do realize that if you dump him for this, it's entirely possible you will never find any other guy who can get you off during PiV? That the other guy was a lucky bonus?

You love him, you're getting orgasms. Either accept that with joy, or do him a favour and let him go.
Posted by agony on June 9, 2012 at 6:51 AM · Report this
35
@26 and 29, I don't understand why the sex is unpleasant just because there's no orgasm. Is he not doing anything else? Since I hit 33 or so it's been really hard for me to come when I'm with someone else. I can't remember the last time it happened. But OMG, I still love sex and want it all the time. It's just fun and pleasurable and generally at the top of my list of things to do, even without an orgasm.

I feel like the fact that you're only finding pleasure in the orgasm is going to make it much harder to fix the problem, because it's going to require enthusiasm and patience on both your parts. I realize everybody's different, but you really get no pleasure from the act itself unless there's an orgasm? And does he go down on you? There's no mention of that. When you're having PiV sex, do you make him pull out when he's about to come and then re-enter when he's calmed down a bit? And has being on top made any difference?
Posted by JrzWrld on June 9, 2012 at 6:53 AM · Report this
36
@33: I am a woman who is regularly and happily "done in five". We exist. And I have sex with the goal of PiV orgasm. I can't imaging sex without orgasm: it would be disappointing and not worth my time. At one point in our relationship while we had a small baby, sex was too quick and not much about me, and I very seriously thought about whether I could live the rest of my life with such poor quality sex. My answer was "no". Luckily it improved substantially. We joke about how we could never be porn stars: the whole scene would be over too fast! And we shake it up, try new things, and love fucking each other. Very often in less than five.

So to the LW: your sex life for the next 70 years is a huge consideration. Can you survive 70 years of unsatisfying sex? I couldn't. It would poison our relationship. It could poison yours.
Posted by Funky Monkey on June 9, 2012 at 8:08 AM · Report this
persimmon 37
@28 and @26, or, if he has an aversion to boner pills, try the natural alternative to Viagra--give him a little head to fluff him back up for round two. Then hop on top so you have greater control of the sex (since he'll probably be a little tired).
Posted by persimmon on June 9, 2012 at 8:24 AM · Report this
persimmon 38
Or, just have him eat you out before sex. Get your orgasm out of the way. Sometimes that takes the pressure off of "having to orgasm" for me, and then I come a second time during sex anyway. And if not, who gives a shit? I already came.
Posted by persimmon on June 9, 2012 at 8:28 AM · Report this
39
@33: Explain how making him hold off for a week at a time between orgasms is going to make him last longer. Seems to me that turning penetration into a huge emotional payoff after 2 weeks of denial is more likely to get him overexcited and come even quicker. Likewise, withholding penetration as some sort of punishment/discipline for coming too soon is likely to only produce anxiety about coming too soon, which also will make the problem worse.

You read here about men who have gotten themselves accustomed to the Death Grip of Doom when masturbating, and actually have trouble coming during sex. I can't help wondering if that could be used as a technique to slow Fiance down. Worth a thought.
Posted by avast2006 on June 9, 2012 at 8:53 AM · Report this
fannerz 40
Uh... Him licking your nipples while you use your vibe *IS* him getting you off. Jesus. That's how I get my partner off every time, it's the only thing that works other than his own fist, and he is perfectly happy with our sex.
Posted by fannerz on June 9, 2012 at 11:19 AM · Report this
AFinch 41
Mmmm...I had one partner my entire life who was a "done in 5" woman; I haven't been a done in 5 man for many years.

I think he needs to cut the pouting - Dan's advice is good. Stop faking it and making it easy for him to ignore your feelings and lack of satisfaction. Also, don't cave - he pouts, just turn it all back on him...if he feels insecure about his ability to please/do for you, then he needs to learn how to do different things to get you off - particularly if he is ready for a prolactin nap afterwards.

Avast2006 has lots of good advice, but let me add:

- he needs to do more to get you going before he gets his. Most women can go more than once; have him get you at least one, and then he can be a two-pump-chump and who knows, maybe you get another? Like Persimmon says, he can learn to use his tongue, hands and fingers to do all sorts of things.

- condoms are a good idea - too-tight condoms are a bad idea. Those can be boner killers. They do most certainly reduce the sensation.

- Yes, finacee needs to spend some time chokin' the chicken.

Definitely, bad sexual compatibility is going to erode your relationship over time. You might not find someone else ever again who is a magic perfect fit like the first guy, but that does not mean you can happily settle for bad sex for the rest of your life either. It will erode the relationship...this is the also-married-at-22-voice-of-experience talking.
Posted by AFinch on June 9, 2012 at 11:19 AM · Report this
42
To add to what everyone else is saying: condoms are great, experiment with the textured ones and see if there's a kind that make YOU come faster (for me, it's the Durex Pleasuremax ones, but you might be different).

Also, the closer he gets you before he puts his dick inside you, the more likely he is to get you off during sex. From your comments about showing him stuff with oral, I'm guessing he either isn't doing it much or he's not good at it. Don't let his dick into your pussy until he's gotten you at least 3/4 there from other stimulation- though I don't recommend vibrators here unless you're going keep it going through the sex. If you want to do that though, get something small that he can use while he's in you.

@23: For the record, I wouldn't dump a husband because sex had changed for me post-baby, but I kind of assumed that she wasn't the mother because I also assumed she would've mentioned it if she were.
Posted by alguna_rubia on June 9, 2012 at 12:17 PM · Report this
43
@34: "Or maybe just accept that you are in the same boat as most women - find it difficult to get off during PiV, except in certain circumstances with certain partners. "

She's not. She got off every time with her last boyfriend, who wasn't so sexually inexperienced.

@33: "But you can't just lay there and act like everything's ok. Because it ain't."

Yeah, I don't know why she let things get this far if she resents her fiancee so much.
Posted by there's obviously more than frustration there on June 9, 2012 at 12:18 PM · Report this
44
This is not a sexual problem. This is a communication problem, and if it isn't fixed, it will destroy their relationship and they should fix it or break up before they get married. Relationships can survive many problems. But they cannot be healthy and good and survive if the two people cannot discuss the problems they have with the relationship with each other and work them out. These two people cannot. That is their fundamental problem. It is currently manifesting in the form of a sexual desire, but it can manifest in countless ways. And it probably will manifest in more ways if this doesn't get fixed.

I'm not going to say it's definitely his fault or definitely her fault - way too little info. How is she bringing it up? How exactly does he respond? But clearly the fact that there is a problem for her has not been sufficient for the two of them to start working on it and just be asking for advice on what might solve the problem. And that is a relationship-destroying problem. I hope they can fix it.
Posted by uncreative on June 9, 2012 at 12:20 PM · Report this
45
"I'm marrying him because I love him. As you probably know. Relationships based on sex ends twice as quickly as they started."

That worries me, because that is the reaction of a thinking head, when clearly her body is unhappy and shutting down on her responses. And imagine where that path will take you in 10 years or with a few kids. I hope you aren't planning to marry this man as soon as you graduate - please give yourself time after you graduate and away from the pressures of school.

I like the practical advice, Dan's and Seandr @13. Call him on the pouting, stop lying about coming, make him read your letter and the responses. (You are both grown-ups, right?) Maybe he is a fine and good man for you, and I hope you can can fix this. You do know that any smart man would be completely appreciative of your natural sex drive?

Good sex is cerebral too. Where is your head when he is licking you and you have your vibrator? Maybe he needs to appreciate what's happening in your head, too.

A lot of people are saying that she isn't communicating, or he isn't communicating, but it sounds like she is trying hard to communicate in different ways to make that connection. As suggested several times, it is very possible that there is manipulation or the bad kind of power games. Good luck though.
Posted by UrbanDuck on June 9, 2012 at 1:27 PM · Report this
46
@35: If it's over in 5 minutes, I can imagine it's not just the fact that there's no orgasm. Certainly, sex can be fun even if there's no orgasm, but the sensations still have to do something for you, right? In my opinion, bad sex is a helluva lot worse than no sex- that seems to be where she is right now. Certainly, good sex doesn't require an orgasm, but I don't think that's what she's getting out of this guy. Again: with another guy, she ALWAYS came. That, to me, says that she's pretty easy to get off. If he almost never gets her off, I think that the problem is just his skills.
Posted by alguna_rubia on June 9, 2012 at 3:43 PM · Report this
sissoucat 47
"I'm marrying him because I love him. As you probably know. Relationships based on sex ends twice as quickly as they started."

That's what a good friend of mine thought when she married this amazing guy. Fast forward 5 years and 2 kids, and they were having sex twice a year, if that ; the last two times they had sex is when the 3rd and 4th one were conceived. She was highly sexual. He was amazing. She took a lover, "fell in love" with him though he was not amazing but the sex was great, and now her 4 kids live with Mum and see Dad every other week-end - though Mum still holds Dad in very high esteem. She still likes him, if not loves him - but unmet sexual needs are a disaster waiting to happen. As for the lover he's out of the picture.

Relationship based on love without sexual compatibility end more slowly, sure. But they still end, and usually they do when the kids are young. Do you want that for your future kids ? Or do you want a relationship with love and with sexual compatibility, that will hold until the kids are grown up ?

My 20-yo self would have told you "you go, girl". My 40-yo self tells you to do the sensible thing, you may have a protracted engagement until sex becomes rewarding with him if you want, but don't have kids yet, and be prepared to let him go, for both of you to find someone more sexually compatible, when you'll find out that it's not gonna happen. You'll do both of you a huge favor.
Posted by sissoucat on June 10, 2012 at 12:57 AM · Report this
sissoucat 48
@42 Good advice, but I would go even further : don't let his dick in until you've had at least one orgasm from clitoridal stimulation first. Females don't need to delay any orgasm until the end of sex like men ; I find PIV much more pleasurable when I've had several orgasms before, and the more orgasms I have, the more enjoyable the next is.

@Erica_P remember the old question of how long PIV can last before it becomes tiring for a woman ? I thought more than 30 min for me, but I couldn't be sure because I always lost tract of the clock in the heat of the moment. Recently I was finally able to clock it, and having had good non-PIV sex beforehand, we lasted one hour at PIV without any discomfort nor soreness. Of course it's not a contest or anything, but enjoying very long PIV can happen to females, though not without non-PIV sex beforehand in my case. For comparison, if it's PIV only on the menu, I have no orgasms nor much feeling of what's going on down there, and I can't wait for it to stop ; 10 min of PIV is already one hour too long.
Posted by sissoucat on June 10, 2012 at 1:20 AM · Report this
sissoucat 49
@48 track not tract.
Posted by sissoucat on June 10, 2012 at 1:21 AM · Report this
50
Yeah, the little gap in her story is right here:

"I've talked to him about it and instead of coming up with solutions and doing them, he gets hurt and I feels guilty and I let it go. "

How does she talk to him about it? Is it genuinely constructive, or is it all about how he is supposedly failing her? He could be acting whiny and too defensive, but as others have noted, she might also be bringing it up in a less-than-helpful manner.
Posted by Morosoph on June 10, 2012 at 10:03 AM · Report this
51
@50: "How does she talk to him about it? Is it genuinely constructive, or is it all about how he is supposedly failing her? He could be acting whiny and too defensive, but as others have noted, she might also be bringing it up in a less-than-helpful manner."

I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt if every single time he comes within five minutes every single time after a span of four years. If he hasn't done anything right so far, his "guilt" sounds self-pitying and fully unconstructive. Shit, maybe if he DID fee guilt about his actions, it'd certainly delay orgasm.
Posted by not that she's without criticism, but he has work to do on June 10, 2012 at 10:15 AM · Report this
52
But seriously, this is why you can't expect great sex from someone who's maybe had sex once before you. Instead of expecting them to adapt to *your* needs, they're adapting to this whole "having sex" thing to begin with.
Posted by it's not fair to you ~or~ them on June 10, 2012 at 10:17 AM · Report this
53
@48 actually that meshes well with my experience. With someone I'm comfortable with, whose cock isn't too too large, and where we're mixing things up with different positions including oral on me -- I could have fun for a very long time. But if a new guy, with just a little foreplay, starts pounding away at me, after ten minutes I'm totally sick of it and ready to get dressed. I am very happy with the solutions we came up with in that thread: me figuring out what I want and asking for it; and if the pounding starts going on too long, I give increasingly explicit signals:
"Oh god yes, yes!"
"Oh, baby, I want to feel you come inside me!
"Oh, fuck, come in me!"
If that doesn't work, I'll give it another minute and then I'll say, okay, that was great, wow, I need a drink of water, wow, you're amazing. When I get back to bed, I'll give him a blowjob, and encourage him to use his hand to bring himself off.
Don't mean to derail the thread; just wanted to reply to sissoucat's comment.
Posted by EricaP on June 10, 2012 at 11:12 AM · Report this
54
I'm sorry, Aqua69, but something about this really doesn't make sense....

You clearly orgasm, because the fiancé helps get you off by licking your nipples while you use a vibrator (and why you aren't having him use it escapes me....)

But you start out with "He doesn't get me to have an orgasm." So either nothing else works now for you but vibrator/nipples OR he doesn't do anything but hop on top OR you only mean orgasm from PiV. There's a big difference in how you would handle those scenarios.
Posted by Juliet Audobon on June 10, 2012 at 2:59 PM · Report this
55
@52: I'd understand that point of view if she were four weeks or months into dating him, but he's had four YEARS to figure it out. Certainly, I don't think she should dump him without making a real effort to train him up, but she definitely has a right to demand good sex.
Posted by alguna_rubia on June 10, 2012 at 9:55 PM · Report this
56
@36 Thanks, I'm always happy to learn something new. Does lube play a major role in quick encounters? (R.e. warm-up:
EricaP's transcript == epic).

@39 What part of my comment implied holding off between orgasms? "No need to be cruel, I'm guessing he wouldn't turn down hand-, blow-, or tit- jobs." As many others have noted, communication seems to be a big issue, with an implied element of coercion. Making a game of "this is your week to please me" seems more than reasonable, especially given the fact that marriage is on the menu.

Sounds more emotional than physical to me at this point.
Posted by x14n on June 11, 2012 at 1:26 AM · Report this
geoz 57
When sex is difficult, everything gets difficult. I hate difficult sex.
Posted by geoz on June 11, 2012 at 6:26 AM · Report this
58
I'm sorry, but I really can't offer much sympathy here. I've come only twice in my life (both times were in my sleep) and yet I LOVE sex. Whenever I hear letter writers complaining they can only get off by xyz, I feel a bit inadequate, and a little resentful. I understand that if you are getting something in one relationship, then it is a bit of a comedown to not to have it in the next, but still, you are having orgasms.... I don't see a problem here unless you make one.
Posted by humananimal on June 11, 2012 at 8:23 AM · Report this
59
@58, is orgasming a goal of yours? If so, what have you tried, as far as masturbatory aids? That is what kinds of stories, visuals, vibrators, advice-from-Betty-Dodson have you tried, and what results have you had?
Posted by EricaP on June 11, 2012 at 9:02 AM · Report this
Registered European 60
if the pounding starts going on too long, I give increasingly explicit signals:
"Oh god yes, yes!"
"Oh, baby, I want to feel you come inside me!
"Oh, fuck, come in me!"

My god, that is sad. It's exactly like the obviously fake "encouragements" that prostitutes come up with to "get it over with". At least they are getting paid for it. Why are you even doing this?
Posted by Registered European on June 11, 2012 at 10:51 AM · Report this
61
@56: yes. Most often spit. Mine on his penis mostly. I prime his pump much of the time. Works very well and gets me going. Less often commercially available lube, because neither of us likes the taste of it. Despite buying the most mouth-friendly stuff I could find.

@58: You make the point that each person has her (or his) own experience, and as long as we're enjoying it and satisfied, who cares how it compares to other people's.

The LW is not satisfied.
Posted by Funky Monkey on June 11, 2012 at 11:28 AM · Report this
62
And @56: these aren't quick encounters. They are very standard encounters. Good ones for us. Fit into our non-standardly-scheduled-life-with-kids. And we do have occasional quickies; now THOSE are quick!

Because we'd love to have sex more than we do, we're ready to go when it does.
Posted by Funky Monkey on June 11, 2012 at 11:42 AM · Report this
aureolaborealis 63
@60: If you've come to hate the women you pay to fuck you (and, I assume, yourself), then maybe you should

a) stopping paying women to fuck you, lest you end up in the news some day, with the local police excavating your back yard, AND

b) don't take it out on other women, like, say, EricaP.

And:

3) go fuck yourself.
Posted by aureolaborealis on June 11, 2012 at 11:49 AM · Report this
aureolaborealis 64
@ Erica: Welcome back. Seems like you've been absent. I appreciate your presence here, and I know I'm not alone.
Posted by aureolaborealis on June 11, 2012 at 11:51 AM · Report this
65
@60 - part of being open to sexual adventures with new people, is acknowledging that the sex isn't always going to be perfect. I like not knowing what I'm going to get, just as I like trying new restaurants. For a while, a year or so ago, I was having trouble extricating myself from bad sex -- it's not as easy as just leaving the food untouched on your plate at a disappointing restaurant.

I could have decided to just stay locked up safe in my house, and only fuck my husband. But some helpful people on Slog gave great advice, which has led to many happy escapades since then and a few less satisfying ones that were easily ended once I realized I wasn't happy.

Thanks, aureolaborealis! I'm here when I can, these days... Work gets in the way more than it used to, alas.
Posted by EricaP on June 11, 2012 at 1:31 PM · Report this
Registered European 66
@65, Thank you for the explanation.
Posted by Registered European on June 11, 2012 at 8:06 PM · Report this
67
Wait, what's wrong with the nipple-licking vibrator scenario? Sounds pretty good to me.
Posted by MichelleZB on June 12, 2012 at 9:06 PM · Report this
Philophile 68
I don't see how this relationship dynamic could develop between healthy adults. No two people want the same things; every relationship has negotiation. What does he do when he wants something that you don't? Do you negotiate with him, refuse to, or just do it his way?

Sounds like you just do PiV sex his way. In this case: If his big needs are always met, and your big needs are ignored or given lip service, then he doesn't value fairness and probably won't change as long as he is getting what he wants. His crying says that he cares, his lack of proposing solutions or effort says that he's happy as is. I'm not counting consent to be masturbated beforehand as 'effort'. It's hard to deal with someone who says one thing and demonstrates the opposite. If you are determined to stay in this relationship, you only have 2 options; accept that your mate will never show care for you, or draw unbreakable boundaries, like refusing to participate in unfair behavior. Can you handle the reduction in your sex life to acts that you consider fair? With a manipulator, this can be very limiting. Perhaps the only fair sex that he can handle is jacking and jilling off together at first. But maybe he'll consent to lay there as you move as you like so that you will do that for him again. He'll either learn to give as much as he takes or leave you for a doormat.

If I'm wrong and his actions and words actually match, then you can try having a second sex session a few minutes after the first, or asking him to lay passive as you demonstrate what you like, or he could read a sex manual like She Comes First, or experiment with restraining him if he's very forceful, or you could grind off on his abs as a baby step, etc.

Source: relationship with a covert aggressive personality (manipulator)
More...
Posted by Philophile on June 14, 2012 at 1:57 PM · Report this
sissoucat 69
@56 Thanks for caring to reply, despite your working schedule. And welcome back.
Posted by sissoucat on June 15, 2012 at 6:37 AM · Report this

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