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Thursday, June 21, 2012

SL Letter of the Day: Don't Swallow That

Posted by on Thu, Jun 21, 2012 at 5:10 PM

An issue has come up between my boyfriend and I, and I'm hoping you can shed some light on things for me.

I'd like to preface things by saying that, nearly without failure, we have great sex—and usually more than once per day. That's never been a problem. I feel, though, that my boyfriend is being unreasonable about blowjobs and my lack of desire to swallow after he comes. It's not like I'm depriving him of some huge fantasy. The "problem" is that I swallowed after blowjobs with a guy I was previously in a relationship with, discovered I really don't like it, and haven't wanted to do it since. My boyfriend says, essentially, that it's not fair that I did something sexual with another guy that I won't do with him. He says it's unacceptable, and that he expects me to do it now just because I did it before, whether or not I like it.

I feel like this isn't even something he really cares about all that much, sexually-speaking, it's just a point he needs to prove. I've tried to explain that I just flat-out don't like swallowing, that it's got nothing to do with him personally, but he won't budge. Basically, it seems like this some sort of control issue for him; being ordered to swallow seems like it crosses the GGG line.

What's your impression?

Enjoys Blowjobs, Not Swallowing

My response after the jump...

····················

My first impression: your boyfriend is a jealous, insecure, controlling asshole, ENBS... an asshole with whom you have great sex, great sex this asshole doesn't deserve, at least once a day.

Backing up: I've written before—it's out there somewhere—that oral comes standard, that any model that doesn't come with oral should be returned to the lot, etc. (Let the record show: my oral-comes-standard ruling has always applied equally to both sexes.) But I've said that swallowing is extra credit. Because, technically speaking, swallowing happens after the blowjob is over. Yes, yes: it happens almost immediately after the blow job. But as swallowing happens after the blowee comes, the blower has finished the job. Now some people regard swallowing as highly erotic and deeply meaningful and blah blah transcendent connection blah or blah blah demeaning hotness blah. But I don't think a blowee—particularly one who has been blown to completion—is in any position to complain about how the blower opts to dispose of his come. Swallow, spit, let it run out the corners of the mouth: so long as the blower doesn't make a Mr. Yuck face, run to the toilet, and noisily spit the blowee's load into the sink—that's a load he dropped in your mouth, blower, not a turd—the blowjob is over and the blowee's work is done.

But reasonable blowjob expectations and proper post-blowjob load disposal aren't what at issue here, EBNS. The issue is your boyfriend's obsession with the blowjobs you gave your ex.

Let's cut to the chase: You're under no obligation to do anything and everything you've done with and for past sex partners for your current boyfriend. Period. The End. Insisting that you have to swallow his loads—bullying you into swallowing his loads—because you swallowed your ex's loads reveals something so deeply unattractive about your current boyfriend that it looks like a DTMFA-level offense from where I'm typing. You're right, EBNS, on some level this is about control. But on a deeper, creepier level it's about ownership. Your boyfriend can't stand the idea that some other guy "had" his girlfriend in a way that he can't, EBNS, so if you don't swallow his loads then he doesn't "have" his girlfriend—he doesn't own his girlfriend—they way he believes a boyfriend should.

Here's how you shut this sexist, demeaning, controlling bullshit down: tell your boyfriend that his expectations are unacceptable. Then tell him he has a choice to make: blowjobs without swallowing—and without him being a dick about it—or no blowjobs at all. If he whines that you swallowed for your ex, point out to him that, sure, you swallowed for your ex. And you've swallowed for him too. But as you're not still swallowing for your ex-boyfriend there's really no good reason you should have to go on swallowing for current boyfriend.

And ask him if the reverse is true: is your boyfriend obligated to do everything he's ever done for some other girl for you? Even if it was something he tried once and didn't enjoy? And what about things you've done with your past boyfriends that you enjoyed but that your current boyfriend doesn't? Does he have to do those things?

Okay, now I'm rambling—because I'm annoyed. And I've had a beer. Going to post this now, close my computer, and swallow another beer.

 

Comments (132) RSS

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emma's bee 1
Perfect! Just don't let that beer dribble out of the corners of your mouth. That might be DTMFA-worthy, depending on the quality of the beer, and the locale.
Posted by emma's bee on June 21, 2012 at 5:21 PM · Report this
2
Dan, I see nothing wrong with your analysis, but I got the impression that she had never swallowed for her current guy. Despite the fact that the guy seems to have been DTMFA-worthy over this and after a not rewarding unacceptable behavior waiting period, EBES should at least consider giving her guy's guys at least one try, as there are plenty of things that are no good with one partner, but magical with another.
Posted by Assuming she doesn't decide this was over the DTMFA-line on June 21, 2012 at 5:22 PM · Report this
3
Nailed it, Dan. The boyfriend's controlling, dickish behavior needs to stop. If it continues, or escalates, then DTMFA.
Posted by brendan on June 21, 2012 at 5:35 PM · Report this
BEG 4
Seriously? I would have hit the exits on hearing that "if you did it to your last boyfriend, you have to do it with me" line. What. A. Load. Of. Garbage. Gawd.
Posted by BEG http://twitter.com/#!/browneyedgirl65 on June 21, 2012 at 5:35 PM · Report this
5
She also left her ex. Maybe she should leave him too.
Posted by wl on June 21, 2012 at 5:38 PM · Report this
Sandiai 6
Easy Peasy.
Posted by Sandiai on June 21, 2012 at 5:40 PM · Report this
7
DTMFA. He obviously doesn't respect your feelings on this subject, he's not going to budge, and you're not going to stop giving blowjobs. So get rid of this loser and find somebody who is actually worth your time.
Posted by suddenlyorcas on June 21, 2012 at 5:40 PM · Report this
TVDinner 8
Douche alert. DTMFA. Not. One. Blowjob. More.
Posted by TVDinner http:// on June 21, 2012 at 5:41 PM · Report this
lilmonster206 9
dtmfa. like, now.
Posted by lilmonster206 on June 21, 2012 at 5:41 PM · Report this
10
DTMFA. If you had had anal with someone in the past and didn't like it, he'd be insisting you have anal with him. It's the same thing. He's being an insecure asshat.

I will walk that DTMFA back a bit. Tell him "look, here's the deal. You're never getting your come swallowed. Do you want a new girlfriend or do you want to never say anything about it again?" But that's more than he probably deserves TBH, since it sounds like you've been pretty firm in the past. But if you've been somewhat trying not to hurt feelings or whatever, go with that. "No, and I'll break up with you if you bring it up again." Maybe that will make him realize what an ass he's been.

If not...

DTMFA.
Posted by Hanoumatoi on June 21, 2012 at 5:42 PM · Report this
11
Just swallow occasionally. It ain't that big a deal.
Posted by WestSeven on June 21, 2012 at 5:44 PM · Report this
12
Yeah, he's an asshole, and she should dump him, but.... just swallow the load already. Jesus, it's not gonna kill ya.
Posted by catsnbanjos on June 21, 2012 at 5:45 PM · Report this
13
@11, 12. If it ain't that big a deal, then her not swallowing ain't that big a deal.

Posted by IPJ on June 21, 2012 at 5:57 PM · Report this
secretagent 14
I think you should ask him if he's he willing to swallow his own cum. Or someone else's. Or your pee? Please have a camera ready and share that stupid grimace on his face when you do.

One downside to the normalization of porn is that no one seems to tell guys that those women are "acting". Not every single sex act that you have seen a woman "enjoy" in a porn video is actually that enjoyable. Some ladies love cum, in their mouths, stomachs, on their face, hair, etc. But not everyone, and you're not entitled to any sex act that your partner doesn't enjoy. If it's that big of a deal, dump her.

I'm gonna go make someone lick up their own cum now.
Posted by secretagent on June 21, 2012 at 5:58 PM · Report this
15
@11 & 12 - No. She doesn't like it, and she isn't required to do anything she doesn't like. Period.
Posted by blahdiblah on June 21, 2012 at 5:59 PM · Report this
16
Sure. Just as soon as you make spunk taste like vanilla pudding.
Posted by EclecticEel on June 21, 2012 at 6:00 PM · Report this
T 17
I agree with Dan's insistence that oral comes standard, but that doesn't mean it always happens that way. This guy's lucky to be getting any BJs at all. The fact that he's being a petulant asshat about what she does with his load is really gross, especially since she's tried it in the past **and doesn't like it.** That last part is what should matter most to him. Hell, even if she did decide to cave and start swallowing with him, she'll be thinking of her ex each time, I'm sure. Does this clown really want that?

Fuck it, DTMFA. This is a strong indicator of a shitty person, and his ugliness will reveal itself more and more over time. Get out now.
Posted by T on June 21, 2012 at 6:00 PM · Report this
bhowie 18
I'll chime in on the chorus of DTMFA.
Posted by bhowie on June 21, 2012 at 6:05 PM · Report this
19
But, #11 and #12, why should she? It's an often-grim experience which has no effect on getting someone off.

I do run to the bathroom and spit, which I think is perfectly fair. Rather than expecting my hubby to give up coffee, garlic, red wine and curry and live on pineapple, it makes more sense to spit and rinse as quickly as possible. I would rather blow him frequently and enthusiastically without having to worry about a hideous experience that's coming my way afterwards.
Posted by misspiggy on June 21, 2012 at 6:10 PM · Report this
Fnarf 20
Spit it out on his pillow until he stops asking.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on June 21, 2012 at 6:12 PM · Report this
The_Shaved_Bear 21
Swallowing is totally optional, always. It has never made me any happier if my gal did or did not gulp it down; I'm just grateful to be there. To be honest, I wouldn't blame her for spitting. A platonic girl friend of mine likened the flavor to raw egg yolk. Raw egg yolk tastes fucking gross. Don't believe me? I dare ya!
Posted by The_Shaved_Bear on June 21, 2012 at 6:43 PM · Report this
22
@2: "Dan, I see nothing wrong with your analysis, but I got the impression that she had never swallowed for her current guy."

And she never has to again if she doesn't want to. Don't be such a creep yourself.
Posted by it's more than just cum. it's about control on June 21, 2012 at 6:44 PM · Report this
23
Chiming in, he's an asshat. Seriously, I get the eroticism of swallowing, but if she doesn't like it too freaking bad buddy. Christ, imagine how jealous he'd be if they had a baby....but honey--you got up at 4am to feed the baby, I demand a snack now too!!!

DTMFA, he doesn't deserve to mess with your head.
Posted by jujubee80 on June 21, 2012 at 6:46 PM · Report this
24
@14: What absolutely uncaring, stupid advice. Have you even been in a relationship? Known someone who associated sex with trauma and unpleasantness?

@16: She doesn't just find it "icky". He'd just drink pineapple juice and continue demanding.
Posted by he'd drink his own piss to "teach" her a lesson on June 21, 2012 at 6:52 PM · Report this
25
I threw up the first time a guy came in my mouth. I don't know why it was horrible, but it was. He was a boyfriend. I tried several times with my husband, but it was still gross. My husband, who was an abusive jerkwad of huge proportions, bullied me into doing it. I threw up over the edge of the bed and refused to give him blow jobs anymore (one of the few things I made stick during our relationship). I divorced him and hooked up with a guy, and had him wear a condom during the blow job. I discovered I LOVE giving blow jobs!

I just don't like having come in my mouth. Don't know why - just don't. Condoms rock.
Posted by Gamebird on June 21, 2012 at 7:02 PM · Report this
26
I generally agree with the DTMFA crowd, buuuuut...
If you like him and want to stay with him, I think you should make him swallow his own come as an apology. Hell, even *try* to swallow his own come.

I say no more sex with mister DoWhatISay until he gets a mouthful of his own come. It's a punishment ("now who's telling whom what to do?") that fits the crime. Otherwise, yeah, DTMFA.
Posted by x14n on June 21, 2012 at 7:15 PM · Report this
27
@20 nailed it. Fnarf FTW!
Posted by SeattleKim on June 21, 2012 at 7:16 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 28
Swallowing always looked gross to me. Fuck @ 11 and @ 12, and tell this boyfriend to go die.
Posted by Matt from Denver on June 21, 2012 at 7:16 PM · Report this
29
@26: No, because then he'd continue whining that HEEE CANNN WHYYYY CAN'T YOUUUUUUU
Posted by he'd suck his own cock to hold it over her on June 21, 2012 at 7:20 PM · Report this
30
For an otherwise sexy guy, my boyfriend's jizz is incredibly non-sexy. It not only tastes bad but is very thick and physically difficult to swallow, (bitter bathroom caulk comes to mind). After nearly tossing my cookies a couple of times, I stopped. When he asked why, I told him in the nicest way, (although it was probably was not as smooth as it could have been), that his cum was just too strong tasting to swallow. He was kind of bothered by it at first, but got over it because well, getting a bj is still getting a bj. He now gives me a warning before he blows and he shoots wherever works at the time. So while bj-harmony can be attained, this guy sounds like a douche, so I will chime in with DTMFA.
Posted by kylecheez on June 21, 2012 at 7:20 PM · Report this
OutInBumF 31
Blowjobs are fun to give, but I don't swallow either, because I think cum tastes gross. Sometimes if I'm over the top horny, but usually no thanks. Must be the cadaverine and putriscine- makes cum taste like corpse.
Posted by OutInBumF on June 21, 2012 at 7:20 PM · Report this
32
Just one point: I think Dan is assuming she has caved already at least once. If Dan's right, it adds an even higher level of jerkdom -- she did it once for the ex, so she owes it to the new guy in perpetuity. But that's not how I read the letter. I read it as, he wants her to do it at least once, and so far she's held out.

Anyway, in either case I say DTMFA, without even trying to discuss it with him. Guy has serious problems.
Posted by Margaret L. on June 21, 2012 at 7:20 PM · Report this
33
Some of us love come, and some of us (a lot of us) find the mucousy texture of many guys' come offputting, and the salty egg-white-left-out-overnight crossed with ammonia odour and flavour of it downright repulsive. It can be very much like having a strong chemical bathroom cleaner and snot concoction sprayed into the back of the throat, which is quite unpleasant, particularly as the end-product of sucking a delicious cock.

Unless he's willing to accept that she's never going to swallow, and understands that his demands were over the line, the letter-writer really should DTMFA.
Posted by ignatz ratzkywatzky on June 21, 2012 at 7:36 PM · Report this
34
Agreed that it's a bad sign that this guy feels like it's his right to dictate how you perform, with no regard -- actually, active antipathy -- towards how you feel about it. Does he understand how dickish that is?

Love Fnarf's suggestion @20!
Posted by Nitidiuscula on June 21, 2012 at 8:05 PM · Report this
35
Have the guy try celery. It makes it taste sweet.
Posted by kfjalkflkflkds02ru902o on June 21, 2012 at 8:13 PM · Report this
sirkowski 36
Did you hum "Oh come ye faithful" when you swallowed? Otherwise it's a total turn off.
Posted by sirkowski http://www.missdynamite.com on June 21, 2012 at 8:14 PM · Report this
37
Sounds like LW swallowed after BJs pretty regularly with the previous guy. I'm wondering why that is. One would think that one attempt would be enough to determine that she didn't like it. Just thinking that from his perspective her story about not liking it rings a little hollow if she did it regularly with the previous guy. She needs to make it quite clear to him that, "No, really, it makes me gag, and I hate the feeling of gagging. Why would you want to make me gag when you know I hate the feeling? Should I do something to you that you hate?"

I've never figured out why swallowing is so erotic. Mostly just disgusting. She's already disengaged from him, right? I could see maybe it being about so wild over what she's doing to him that she just keeps going right through the whole event and doesn't even slow down. But if it's that they're done and she's ready to stop and spit, what's the difference between that and stopping to not spit?
Posted by avast2006 on June 21, 2012 at 8:17 PM · Report this
38
This has nothing to do with whether it's better to swallow or spit and everything to do with his controlling, jerk-ish behavior. Someone who tries to pressure you into something you've clearly stated you don't like doing? Not someone you want to be with. Someone who keeps insisting on it for that reason - "you did it with someone else so you have to with me" - not someone you should spend another moment with! Yikes...

So glad that Dan exists and is so clear, beer or not :)
Posted by ImprovQueen on June 21, 2012 at 8:31 PM · Report this
39
This post is nowhere near as crabby as it may seem.

Please reinsert the part of the letter that specifies that the LW is female. I'm quite sure I could have written something very like it at one time or another.

Granted, I've retired from the battle of affection, but: Performing orally has always made me cramp. Does this mean that:

a) should I unretire, I ought just to get used to not sleeping or digesting
b) I have no right to be even the tiniest bit annoyed at being called a defective auto
(actually, I'm more amused than anything, but it seems possible)
c) I get to be kicked out of gay again (yes, I have been - don't ask or I'll tell)
d) all of the above?

But now I get to amuse myself (and maybe Ms Cute) and simultaneously fulfill my quota of Heteronormative Remarks for the summer by saying that, even allowing for the erasure of outliers, the standard is still highly valuable if it establishes in opposite-sex relationships a requirement for M on F.

That must be the most heteronormative thing I've said all year. I wonder if it has anything to do with Wimbledon.
Posted by vennominon on June 21, 2012 at 8:33 PM · Report this
john t 40
I guess I'm in the minority, I don't have any problem at all with swallowing. But if some guy insisted on it and wouldn't take no for an answer, I'd refuse out of principle.

The LW's boyfriend sounds like a creep, or at best an insecure immature twerp. If she's not up to the task of smacking some sense into him — and that project is gonna take a lot of smacking — she should DTMFA.
Posted by john t on June 21, 2012 at 8:40 PM · Report this
41
Tell him your previous boyfriend wanted you to spit it back in his mouth too.
Posted by beef rallard on June 21, 2012 at 8:46 PM · Report this
nocutename 42
Mr. Ven,
You should totally unretire.

As it happens, I'm shopping for a new car right now, and every time I inquire about standard features, I'm going to have a hard time keeping a straight face.

The boyfriend sounds like a Horrible Jerk of the highest magnitude, and I heartily agree with the chorus of DTMFA, but at the risk of losing my sympathy card, I don't think swallowing is so hard, if you can do it while holding your breath, if need be (you can't taste anything then). Still doesn't solve the problem of an acidic burn, but that's what wine is all about.

I think it is always the blower's preference that should predominate, but I will say that I understand the erotic appeal of the swallow, and generally do (easier to clean up, too, on the practical side of things), unless I want to let it dribble out for effect (some people like seeing their come and also like seeing it come running out. If I don't want to swallow, I'll suggest an alternative earlier in the activities, such as his coming on my breasts or giving me a facial. If the guy is a big carnivore or coffee drinker, I make that suggestion a lot. No one's ever objected, but if someone did, I'd try to find a compromise that worked for both of us. That's clearly not what's happening in this relationship, though.
Posted by nocutename on June 21, 2012 at 9:05 PM · Report this
43
"Spitters are Quitters!"

- Chris Rock

http://youtu.be/OaaoSxXa3Gc
Posted by Rare Commentator on June 21, 2012 at 9:38 PM · Report this
44
Gamebird@25, so sorry for what you've been through. If you've thrown up in conjunction with injesting some substance, it's common to find it hard to tolerate that taste again -- it's associated with vomit. And also associated with your husband's abuse. If you're interested, you might consider trying again every few years... see if it's still as bad as you remember. Sometimes these things fix themselves, if you give yourself space and time to heal.

Mr. Ven@39, one could perhaps conclude that if the LW were a guy, there would be some discussion of how the BF deals with swallowing the LW's cum. I don't think that's dispositive, though.

Count me among those who think that swallowing is different with different guys. So I would encourage the LW to try it, if the LW's BF had said - "I understand if you don't want to, but I would love it if you would just try once with me, and would be happy to offer you any or every sexual favor you desire in return..." But that's not what he said.

I do think that when it gets to the point where the LW feels as if he or she is "being ordered to swallow," and it's not consensual D/s, then it's time to walk away.
Posted by EricaP on June 21, 2012 at 9:40 PM · Report this
45
@22 Of course she doesn't have to swallow ever again.

If current guy wants to stick with his bullshit logic, she dumped her ex- and should do the same for him. Dan's ultimatum is also good, as is most of what he said, although I disagreed with his "And you've swallowed for him too" reading of the letter.

That she should consider the fact that some things don't work with some partners, and that at some point down the line she might want to be open to taking a few more samples, because there may be a guy who's load is a joy to swallow, isn't an attack on her agency or a demand that she actually do anything other than a little cognition.

I will do my best to use your admonishment to not be such a creep as constructively as I can, although I think you might examine what prompted your reaction.
Posted by Assuming she doesn't decide this was over the DTMFA-line on June 21, 2012 at 10:28 PM · Report this
46
Logged on just to add to the chorus of DTMFA's! I'm a bit surprised Dan didn't go straight to this answer.

Jealousy and control issues are seriously bad news - this is the stuff domestic abuse is made of. Even if you get past this particular issue with your boyfriend, I suspect there will be another lurking just around the corner. My experiences with men like this have been abysmal. If you don't DTMFA right away, keep your eyes wide open for boundary violations. Lastly, hot sex is awesome, but keep in mind that it is not worth putting your emotional or physical health at risk.
Posted by righteousgiraffe on June 21, 2012 at 10:44 PM · Report this
theseamster 47
Complete asshole. If you really think there's something there to salvage have the conversation Dan suggested, but I say it's a waste of time. If you have that talk and he's even a little bit pissy, DTMFRFN. (Dump the motherfucker right fucking now!)
Posted by theseamster on June 21, 2012 at 11:05 PM · Report this
48
I don't think spunk tastes great, but I find it easier to swallow than to hold in on my tongue (where the tastebuds are) while I find a place to spit it out. To me, it's already in the back of the throat anyway, just swallow it down and abracadabra, it's gone!
That said, she needs to kick this fucker to the curb. And the next time she meets him in a bar, say, "Guess what? I've rediscovered the joy of swallowing. I guess it was just YOU."
Posted by portland scribe on June 21, 2012 at 11:16 PM · Report this
49
Since you mentioned GGG, I think your boyfriend has it exactly backwards. As I understand it, GGG says that you should be open to trying something that you haven't done before, if doing so would please your partner and not gross you out too much (see concept "a fetish too far") In this case, you HAVE tried it before, and as a result you have an informed, active dislike of it. You don't forfeit your GGG card by refusing this thing that you know you dislike.

He on the other hand is being the antithesis of GGG by trying to coerce it out of you.
Posted by avast2006 on June 22, 2012 at 12:18 AM · Report this
50
"It's not FAAAAAAIR!", seriously? What a tool. I have no problem swallowing--better that than the facial! But by making an issue of it, the BF is being a creep and an asshat. DTMFA. 

Now, OT, can we please talk about the cum-slut phenomenon? I'm really sick of hearing that enjoying blowjobs makes me or anyone else a cum-slut. Believe it or not, not every sex act has to involve humiliation. I'm sorry your family taught you that sex is filthy and demeaning, and I'm not telling you you can't enjoy whatever it is that gets you off, but I'm not interested in apologizing for the fact that humiliation is like a big pitcher of icewater in my lap. So cut it out. 

Posted by Holly Wood on June 22, 2012 at 1:18 AM · Report this
51
Yiiiiiikes. I agree with the vast majority of commenters that this guy seems like a piece of work. Not to get all armchair psychologist, but I also have to wonder what was up with LW putting up with her ex's desire to get his load swallowed, when it seems to be an act he or she is totally, totally not into. Is this a pattern of getting into relationships with people who are sexually demanding and have no regard for LW's pleasure?

LW, good job on asserting your boundaries, and whatever you decide to do, don't feel obligated to swallow or have other kinds of sex that you're not OK with. Maybe you are in the midst of learning that sex is something that should be fun for you, and that you're not just there to service your partners whether you are enjoying it, feeling "meh", or about to burst into tears / vomit. I've been there myself and it wasn't an easy process after so many years of passivity. So remember to put yourself first, and take care.
Posted by planned barrenhood on June 22, 2012 at 2:50 AM · Report this
52
It is simple EBNS, next time your bf brings up swallowing his cum cuz you swallowed your Ex's cum, Tell him you Pegged your Ex too and if he is up for that you'll swallow.

DTMFA
Posted by Machiavelli was framed on June 22, 2012 at 4:00 AM · Report this
53
The first time someone insisted I perform a sex act "whether or not I like it" would be the absolute last time I ever spoke to that person. That's the stuff abuse grows out of. I was sexually assaulted by a partner who decided he wanted me to play into his rape fantasy, but when I refused decided to go ahead with it anyway without my consent. The level of disregard the LW's boyfriend is showing for her comfort level is very disturbing and reminds me of the stuff I should have paid more attention to earlier in that relationship of mine.

The guy is a controlling douche. Like the others said, DTMFA

Posted by Pussyup on June 22, 2012 at 4:10 AM · Report this
54
This is more about power than sex.
Posted by Krunch on June 22, 2012 at 4:40 AM · Report this
55
Maybe I'm reading a little too much into this, but I get the feeling that the LW could have been making a power play of her own (though the boyfriend responded and escalated to douche level power play). Its fine to have boundaries, but this boundary seems to be too connected to this previous boyfriend. By connecting it to this relationship, it seems like it was more of a routine and not just a few times (maybe I'm wrong). Why say "I did it for this particular guy (routinely maybe?), but don't want to do it anymore" when all she needed to say is "I've tried before but don't like it." By not mentioning the previous boyfriend it would have been more generic and less charged and sounded like more of a preference. By mentioning the specific boyfriend, even if it is her preference not to swallow, it seems like she could have been trying to generate a bit of jealousy and prove a point by drawing a line in the sand. But nonetheless, how the guy responded was completely douchey and uncalled for.
Posted by pb1230 on June 22, 2012 at 6:17 AM · Report this
Tim Horton 56
I disagree with Dan and everyone else (except 54). So that makes me special. Consider the following analogy:

"Dear Dan - My wife is super upset with me. She really loves back rubs before bed. I told her I used to that for my ex girlfriends, but honestly, I just don't enjoy doing them anymore. Now she is acting pouty. Should I DTMFA?"

Yes, LW, you are not obligated to do anything in a relationship. But it is really shitty of you to rub in your BFs face an activity you freely did on multiple occasions with an ex, one that your current BF has expressed a desire for. You reap what you sow.
Posted by Tim Horton on June 22, 2012 at 6:23 AM · Report this
57
I think I swallow because I'm just too damn lazy to get up off my knees and run to the bathroom after:) But yeah, I would dump him. He just sounds kinda nuts. FWIW, there are plenty of guys who would be falling all over themselves to get with a woman who wants to have great sex multiple times a day if "no swallowing" was the price of admission.
Posted by JrzWrld on June 22, 2012 at 6:59 AM · Report this
58
Since this particular case is an easy one (DTMFA OMG), it's worth pointing out Dan's continued wrongness on "orgasms mean it's over". Sex is about pleasure not orgasms, and it's about pleasure not orgasms even when there are orgasms. This notion of "blown to completion" is total bullshit; there are lots of different blowjobs, and some of them aren't over just because someone came.
Posted by Blue Chinchilla on June 22, 2012 at 7:06 AM · Report this
59
God a beer sounds good right now. So what that it's 9:32 am.
Posted by The fag on June 22, 2012 at 7:32 AM · Report this
60
You left one question out Dan. Does he go down on her? You've said in the past that if a guy goes down on a girl, she should be expected to swallow if she goes down on the guy, as he is lapping up all of her fluids while down there.

I agree with the point that he is being unreasonable and controlling, but I also think that swallowing isn't that big a deal. Especially if he's returning the favor.
Posted by lhughes87 on June 22, 2012 at 7:36 AM · Report this
61
... your boyfriend is a jealous, insecure, controlling asshole, ENBS... an asshole with whom you have great sex, great sex this asshole doesn't deserve, at least once a day...
Of course, the blogger formerly known as Roissy and now known as Heartiste would say that the assholery is the reason for the great sexery. (Looks up at ceiling, whistles innocently with a "what, who, me??" look on his face, oh-earnestly-faking that he's not trolling with this comment.)
Posted by seeker6079 on June 22, 2012 at 8:09 AM · Report this
John Horstman 62
sexist, demeaning, controlling bullshit

Perfect description; the swallowing issue is a distant second to the way the boyfriend is approaching/dealing with the lack of swallowing. In fact, trying to guilt you into doing something you hate (which you know because you did it before) because you did it before is a little rapey. DTMFA. Fucking run.
Posted by John Horstman on June 22, 2012 at 8:26 AM · Report this
63
I have to disagree with Dan and most of the commenters here. According to Dan things like watersports, pegging, and cross-dressing are on the GGG-menu but not cum swallowing!? You must be kidding me. Furthermore one of my favorite sex columnists has repeatedly said that sex does not end with the male orgasm. I wonder where that piece of wisdom went.

The thing is LW has repeatedly swallowed the cum of her ex despite not liking it. She has not swallowed the cum of her current boyfriend a single time. She has been pretty GGG with regards to that aspect but is not anymore so the boyfriend is pretty justified to wander. Though he is not justified to be an ass about it.
Posted by anon23434 on June 22, 2012 at 8:29 AM · Report this
64
63 since when the hell does GGG mean "no sexual boundaries"? The LW was open to swallowing, attempted it several times, realized it wasn't working for her, and took it off her menu. She didn't refuse to try it. She didn't blow up at her boyfriend for asking for it. She made a good-faith effort and stopped when it became clear it was a negative sexual experience for her. If this letter was about watersports, pegging, or cross-dressing instead of cum-swallowing it would be exactly the same.
Posted by enclosed on June 22, 2012 at 8:46 AM · Report this
65
@64 re @63: agreed.

I wonder, too, if the refusal to even try with the current bf is created in whole or in part by his assholish conduct around demanding it.

Normally, "I did X with old lover but won't with you" is a horrible thing to hear, no matter how reasoned and reasonable and defensible the position. (Do you remember that woman on Dan's podcast many moons ago who was on the verge of telling her bf that her previous bfs got MFF threesomes with her but he wouldn't because she wuuuvved him sooooo much? That.) But in this case it's hard to see why the bf should get any benefit of the doubt or cut any slack for his fee-fees; his conduct simply doesn't merit it.
Posted by seeker6079 on June 22, 2012 at 8:53 AM · Report this
66
Just tell him your last boyfriend let you peg him, and in the spirit of needing to do EVERYTHING with him that you did with your last boyfriend, he will need to submit. See if that changes his tune.
Posted by bpinsea on June 22, 2012 at 9:05 AM · Report this
67
I agree with almost everyone else - dump the motherfucker already. Don't wait, don't give him an ultimatum, don't pass go, just dump him quick. This guy is a huge, manipulative jerk.

Having said that, I also swallow. I take a big breath before he comes and swallow immediately, followed with a sip of wine immediately after, to get rid of the taste. I don't even take in another breath until after you sip the wine. Come is nasty stuff, but I find that trying to spit it out just leaves that awful taste in my mouth, whereas swallowing eliminates the taste faster.

But Gamebird @25 should just keep spitting - once you associate the taste of come with vomiting I doubt if any tricks will help.
Posted by Schweighsr on June 22, 2012 at 9:12 AM · Report this
68
While I agree with Dan that your boyfriend is making an abusive power play, I do think spitting after blowing a guy is a bit insulting. I haven't read all the comments, so I don't know if someone has already made this comparison, but how would you feel about receiving oral if your boyfriend was turning away from your vag to spit every few seconds? He's ingesting your vaginal juices when he goes down on you, and if you got the impression that he thought they tasted gross, it would probably detract from your enjoyment of the act.

And to everyone complaining about the taste of cum, I'd like to point out that your taste buds are located on the back of your tongue, not the back of your throat. If you're taking in the cock deeply enough at the moment of truth, you shouldn't be able to taste anything.
Posted by Amanda on June 22, 2012 at 9:37 AM · Report this
Crazy Cat Guy's Husband 69
Cum varies in taste and consistency from guy to guy. I suspect that aversion to tasting cum often follows on a bad experience with a lesser vintage. Yes, @16, some cum has a sweet taste akin to vanilla pudding; I suspect that eating lots of fruits and vegies contributes to that.

Nibble on fruits and vegies throughout the day, and your cum, too, may taste like honey.

(And what is the difference between "cum" and "come", anyway?)
Posted by Crazy Cat Guy's Husband on June 22, 2012 at 9:39 AM · Report this
GhostDog 70
DTMFA indeed.

For me, I am pretty much ok with spitting, swallowing, tossing it in the sink, putting it in a rocket, whatever. The only thing I really stand firm on is that the sperm absolutely must go away. There are all sorts of things someone can do with another person's sperm. I would really rather not have any of them done to me.
Posted by GhostDog on June 22, 2012 at 9:43 AM · Report this
addiemonroe 71
Am I the only one who swallows sometimes out of pure laziness?
Posted by addiemonroe on June 22, 2012 at 9:45 AM · Report this
kim in portland 72
@25,

Gamebird,

It sounds like you found a way that works for you. I used have the same association thanks to a terrible ex-boyfriend. Eventually I disassociated blow jobs from vomit, and could toss the condoms. But, I had to, with consent, completely dominate him. A nip of whisky to follow helped with the taste. Restraints aren't required anymore, but they still have their use.

Anyway, congratulations on your strength and generous spirit.

Kind regards.
Posted by kim in portland http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/fast-paced_video_provides_a_fu.html on June 22, 2012 at 9:55 AM · Report this
Alanmt 73
Am I the only guy on the planet who finds an in-mouth orgasm less intense than an out-of-mouth one?
Posted by Alanmt on June 22, 2012 at 9:56 AM · Report this
aureolaborealis 74
@55: I was having the same thoughts. The BF, as presented by the LW, is being a creep. But that refusal is awfully specific. It may be a function of youthful obliviousness ... who knows? My wife and I tend not to go into gory person-specific detail when discussing sex we've had in the past unless someone specifically asks. Some people would probably love the detail, but we've come to a kind of unspoken agreement about just how much we want to know about specific people.
I can't imagine saying something like, "Yeah I used to eat Sally-Jo-Daisy's cunt (without the dental dam I now insist upon in our fluid-bonded relationship), all the time, and it was gross, so I'm never going to do that for you ..." and thinking there was nothing hurtful about the way I was presenting it.

Anyway, +1 for everyone who says she should probably get rid of him.
Posted by aureolaborealis on June 22, 2012 at 10:11 AM · Report this
75
@69(heh)
what is the difference between "cum" and "come", anyway?
Easy: one comes to one's lover's home in the hope that one might cum with them.
Posted by seeker6079 on June 22, 2012 at 10:15 AM · Report this
76
@42: "The boyfriend sounds like a Horrible Jerk of the highest magnitude, and I heartily agree with the chorus of DTMFA, but at the risk of losing my sympathy card, I don't think swallowing is so hard"

I don't think anybody's saying that it is, it's just ancillary to the glaring problem in their relationship and with her manbaby partner.
Posted by if she was asking how to make it easier, this'd be different on June 22, 2012 at 10:17 AM · Report this
77
@68 "If you're taking in the cock deeply enough at the moment of truth, you shouldn't be able to taste anything."

Some guys need to lend a hand when they're close to coming; that means that my mouth is only on the head (and getting rammed by his fist, I might mention, though I'm a masochist and I like that). You're not wrong about the topography, but I just wanted to point out that "deeply enough" makes it sound like there is one correct way to finish a blow job.

@58 "there are lots of different blowjobs, and some of them aren't over just because someone came."

Absolutely.
Posted by EricaP on June 22, 2012 at 10:39 AM · Report this
78
@56: I agree with part and disagree with part.

Unless back rubs make you want to barf (or other literal physical discomfort), that's not a fair counterexample. A backrub doesn't cost you personally the way that swallowing does.

That said, I agree that it was really dumb -- not necessarily malicious/power grab/et cetera, but definitely dumb -- to let it be known that you used to do this for the previous partner as a matter of routine, but refuse to do it for the current partner. It makes it look like either a) it wasn't really as bad at the time as you are letting on now, in which case why the line in the sand now? or b) it makes one wonder if maybe you don't feel as strongly about current partner as you did about previous partner.

I wouldn't blame the boyfriend for gently raising either of the two interpretations above, given the information he got. I do blame him severely if he actually put it as "he expects me to do it now just because I did it before, whether or not I like it."
Posted by avast2006 on June 22, 2012 at 10:44 AM · Report this
79
Honestly, I'm with Dan. My husband could give two shits what I do with his load after a blowjob. He's barely conscious after the fact. He's also smart enough to never say anything that would impair his ability to receive said blowjob, and browbeating me into swallowing if I didn't want to is one of those things.
Posted by MinnySota on June 22, 2012 at 11:15 AM · Report this
80
@74

Exactly its all about presentation of the preference, and not the preference itself. The way it sounds (especially if it was routine and not just a few times) is almost like "I was willing and able to ignore my discomfort for this other guy, but not for you." Her comfort should of course be paramount to her boyfriend (so he shouldn't want her to do it) and makes his response inexcusable, but it could still certainly have been hurtful to this guy to hear that she was she was so enamored by this previous guy that she was willing to do something that was repulsive to her, or that she now isn't willing to accept the slightest discomfort.

While I agree that this guy is ultimately an asshat. While she has come to the conclusion that she dislikes swallowing, the experience couldn't have been so terrible and was perhaps slightly innocuous to her since she was able to carry out the act previously. So, I don't think she was being entirely GGG either by insisting that she won't and will never do it for this guy. Being GGG doesn't mean only doing the things that you're 100% comfortable with all the time. Being GGG doesn't mean permanently closing the door on something that you're uncomfortable with.
Posted by pb1230 on June 22, 2012 at 11:22 AM · Report this
Megaera 81
I'm trying very hard to understand why anyone would want their partner to do something (sexual) that grosses them out. However much I like a particular act, just the idea that my partner might not be actively enjoying it is enough to completely turn me off.
Posted by Megaera on June 22, 2012 at 11:23 AM · Report this
82
Regarding how many times with the previous partner, here is the line in question:

I swallowed after blowjobs with a guy I was previously in a relationship with, discovered I really don't like it, and haven't wanted to do it since.

I read the plural as she tried, and when she didn't like it the first time tried a few more times, and it didn't get better. She wasn't ready, it was Tuesday, maybe if she held her head differently, and so on until it was clear that, no, she really didn't like it. And if he asked why she didn't swallow, explaining she's tried it while not invoking "I've tried it, meaning I tried it with someone who wasn't you" is impossible.

Posted by IPJ on June 22, 2012 at 11:46 AM · Report this
83
@58 completely agree

The way I've heard it put before is that focusing on the orgasm, and seeing it as a finish line, just devalues all sexual acts that don't lead to orgasm.
Posted by pb1230 on June 22, 2012 at 11:50 AM · Report this
singing cynic 84
I totally agree that no one "has to" perform any sex act that they find unpleasant - and to hold it over a partner's head is shitty behavior.

But seriously, ladies, can we stop saying nasty things about the taste/texture/smell of cum? It's just uncalled for - and we certainly wouldn't put up with anyone talking shit about our sexual fluids without calling misogyny. (Hell, Dan's STILL catching flack for the "canned ham" analogy, and he's gay and understandably squicky about pussy.) Sexual fluids have strong odors and pungent tastes. We like the scent & taste of some, and not others. Unilaterally shouting "ICKY!" is just immature.
Posted by singing cynic on June 22, 2012 at 12:07 PM · Report this
85
@80: "Exactly its all about presentation of the preference, and not the preference itself. The way it sounds (especially if it was routine and not just a few times) is almost like "I was willing and able to ignore my discomfort for this other guy, but not for you.""

You sound like a total asshole. Your personal issues and selfishness mirror the boyfriend's, but don't reflect reality, and they don't fucking matter. She doesn't want to do it and none of your tone trolling changes this. She doesn't need to explain why she doesn't want to perform a sex act. She needs to say no and not have some manchild stomping his feet about why her reason isn't good enough.
Posted by i can't believe the lengths you go to on June 22, 2012 at 12:10 PM · Report this
86
@82

I agree that trying implies trying with someone else, but the distinction I was making was between "trying a few times" and "doing as standard protocol"

"I swallowed after blowjobs" is a declarative statement that suggests pattern and routine, and intrinsically links blowjobs and swallowing through the duration of this previous relationship. The statement wasn't a qualified in a way such as "I tried swallowing" or "I swallowed after blowjobs a few times." The one qualifier that was given was "with a guy I was previously in a relationship with" so my assumption was that occurred for the duration of the relationship.

Its all dissecting her word choice and I have no real idea what the LW intended, I was just trying to present an alternative scenario with the limited info given.
Posted by pb1230 on June 22, 2012 at 12:30 PM · Report this
87
@85 - Hold up

I never once excused the guy's behavior and never suggested that she should do it just because.

All I was trying to point out was that the way she may have presented the scenario may have come across badly. People will accidentally hurt/offend people in relationships in minor ways. How that person reacts to a minor offence tells a lot about person - and I can that this guy is a douche. Just because the guy flipped out doesn't mean she can't learn how to better broach the topic in future.
Posted by pb1230 on June 22, 2012 at 12:48 PM · Report this
88
Regarding how many times with the previous partner, here is the line in question:

I swallowed after blowjobs with a guy I was previously in a relationship with, discovered I really don't like it, and haven't wanted to do it since.


That line can easily and honestly be interpreted as meaning either she stopped when she was with that previous bf, or after she stopped seeing him. The difference between the two interpretations go a long way to explaining different people's reactions. (Though there seems to be appropriate unanimity on the dickishness of the current bf.) It's one thing to have been GGG with somebody else long enough to discover that you hate something, it's another to have made a habit of it with one person then refusing it to another. Not from a rights point of view, because she can or can't do WTF she wants. But from a perception point of view.

The thing that isn't resolved is whether or not she has tried the current bf's cum. As the singing cynic noted above, different people have very different tasting fluids: some verging on ambrosial, others verging on caustic.
Posted by seeker6079 on June 22, 2012 at 12:52 PM · Report this
89
I may have gotten a little carried away on some of the GGG stuff I said, but that may have been based on some assumptions that are incorrect and that I brought up mainly as a way to inject an alternative scenario into the discussion rather than just piling on the boyfriend
Posted by pb1230 on June 22, 2012 at 12:56 PM · Report this
90
@88

+1
Posted by pb1230 on June 22, 2012 at 12:58 PM · Report this
Arsenic7 91
@84: Thanks. This question really has nothing to do with whether cum swallowing is gross or awesome (my vote would be awesome). Rather, it deals with issues of immaturity in her relationship. The boyfriends reasoning is really shitty, and it's up to every individual what acts they will and will not entertain.

As to whether it's a reasonable request to ask someone once or twice...yes, it is. And sometimes people decide to do things for their partner they don't particularly like simply to please the other person. That's actually part of a healthy relationship. But you never dictate to your partner what they will and will not do, sexually, unless you are prepared for that person to say "no" and break up with your manipulating ass.
Posted by Arsenic7 on June 22, 2012 at 1:01 PM · Report this
92
I am fed up with GGG being invoked as "Why no one is ever allowed to say no." Because if you tried it you might like it, if you tried it again you might eventually like it, because if you tried it and don't like it, well, hey, I decree it's a huge fucking deal to me and not allowed to be even a little deal to you.

The version in which a commenter puts into GGG all the things they are okay with, and out of GGG all the things they are not okay with, for everybody else regardless of history and actual, you know, likes and dislikes and hard lines, is also pretty damn annoying.

It's an attitude. Comprised of being open to things your partner would like and respectful of things they are not okay with. You don't get to ditch the second half.
Posted by IPJ on June 22, 2012 at 1:22 PM · Report this
93
Absolutely agree with everyone that this is a power issue not a blowjob issue.
I'm more more curious about the "oral standard" (better than the gold standard!)... Does the blowjob standard include coming into his/her mouth or is it just about being brought to the point of ejaculation and then the coming can be any ol' where? Is expecting to get to come in their mouth unreasonable? Or from the other side, is it unreasonable to not want a full load of come shot into your mouth? Is there a consensus opinion about where the oral standard line is drawn on this?
Posted by tofu oyako on June 22, 2012 at 1:23 PM · Report this
Arsenic7 94
You're on the wrong track in your interpretation of the "oral standard."

The idea is that oral "comes standard" when getting into a relationship. Meaning you should assume that your partner strongly desires for oral sex to be a regular part of the relationship and if you disagree with that it's up to YOU to offer dissent and not up to THEM to ask for it. If neither of you want it, that's fine, and you can come to an agreement.

Kind of like how we all assume that sex in general comes standard. If you started a relationship with someone and then, a month in, they expressed their disgust for any form of sex, you would feel a bit cheated, and rightly so.

Swallowing doesn't come standard, though. It's up for discussion.
Posted by Arsenic7 on June 22, 2012 at 1:44 PM · Report this
secretagent 95
A few corrections on some comments that are strike me as logically deficient:

A) Swallowing cum is not at all like tasting vaginal juices. One happens AFTER the orgasm, one happens before.

B) Being icked out over cum is not the same as being icked out by the taste of vagina. In one, you happily suck cock and don't like what happens after, in the other, you don't like ANY part of the act.

C) Why are we assuming she told him she swallowed for a boyfriend? This kind of control freak is probably the same type that would insist on details and numbers of previous partners. Unless she's entirely stupid, it's unlikely she said 'Nyah, nyah, he got to but YOU don't'. Also, it doesn't take a mental giant to figure out that when someone says they don't like something, that it just might be because they tried it before.

D) You're allowed to stop enjoying something sexual at any fucking time. Sexualities change, preferences change, bodies change, partners change. If men start deciding that doing it once means never getting to stop, women will stop trying ANYTHING new, ever. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

E) Echoing others, it could be the most amazing feeling ever, but if my partner hates it, I don't want him to do it. The kind of person that places no value on their partners enjoyment is the kind of rapey asshole that shouldn't have a partner. Gross.
Posted by secretagent on June 22, 2012 at 2:30 PM · Report this
aureolaborealis 96
@95:
A) The point Dan has made repeatedly is that eating pussy with any enthusiasm involves swallowing vaginal juices, probably in as much total volume as the average load of semen.
B) in that the majority of the moisture comes at the end when you're giving a guy head and flows steadily when you're give a woman head, you are correct: they are not the same. But if you really hated cum, you would, presumably, have a problem with precum, too, although probably not in the same degree. Depends on the guy, of course.
C) She strongly implies it.
D) No one disagrees with you, although maybe not with your implication that only men suggest new and/or challenging sex acts.
E) Once again, no one disagrees with you.

This thread follows a fairly common pattern here: A broad consensus is established (boyfriend is a dick and probably deserves dumping), then we start speculating based on the finer details of the letter, pondering other possibilities. Then a new person comes in and, shocked (SHOCKED!) that everyone has missed the obvious point, lays down a furious, self-righteous scorched-Earth flame on the whole operation, giving everyone a big sad, or a giggle, depending on their mood.
Posted by aureolaborealis on June 22, 2012 at 2:55 PM · Report this
97
She says, " I swallowed after blowjobs with a guy I was previously in a relationship with, discovered I really don't like it, and haven't wanted to do it since."

Maybe she did it routinely with this previous bf. Maybe she just tried it several times. Maybe they didn't often have oral sex, but she swallowed each time and ultimately came to the conclusion that she wasn't going to keep doing it around the time they were breaking up. Regardless of how often she did or didn't do it with the ex, she discovered that she doesn't like it, and she has no obligation to swallow with her current bf just to soothe his irrational jealousy.

I see no indication that he's never come in her mouth at all. If so, I would think that would be part of the focus of the letter ("He wants to come in my mouth *and* have me swallow, but I don't like the taste/feel of come, etc.") I would suggest to the LW that, if her current bf's come seems bit different than her ex's (in taste, texture, etc.) she might well have a different experience with him. (I have no problem with my bf's come, but previous men were not always so tolerable.) But if it's the same old, same old, well... she's tried that, and it's not going to be different with him.

And no, I see no reason to give in even once if you *know* it's not going to be different. If she hasn't tasted his come at all--yes, give it a try. If she has, that's all she needs to know.
Posted by SilverChimera on June 22, 2012 at 2:57 PM · Report this
98
@95 -- Yeah, women's and men's bodies are built differently. Guys come in one big spurt while (most) women seep juices slowly. So because of those physical differences that none of us has any control over, it's okay to be overtly grossed out by semen, but prudish and uptight to be grossed by vaginal juices?

I agree with @84 on this one.
Posted by Amanda on June 22, 2012 at 3:10 PM · Report this
secretagent 99
@96 - Actually, I commented way way above, #14. Furious? Scorched-earth. Holy overreaction, batman.

I don't think we're disagreeing, mostly. My point was that you can't eat pussy without swallowing juices. You can blow someone without swallowing cum. 68 made the argument that spitting out cum is tantamount to spitting out pussy juice all whilst eating pussy. One interferes with enjoyment throughout, one just AFTER partner has already had their orgasm.

I fail to see that she strongly implied she told him about the ex with no prompting. I see that as her explanation about why she doesn't like it us readers and to Dan. We can't know.

Your presumption regarding precum doesn't fly with me. While I personally don't have an issue swallowing either, cum is a whole lot more quantity, tastes different and has a different texture.
As far as E - a few people seem to think it's no big deal, and she should just do it. Why? She's not denying him anything a reasonable person can't live without. If she was denying him any sex at all, that'd be a different story
Posted by secretagent on June 22, 2012 at 3:22 PM · Report this
secretagent 100
@98 - It's totally different.

Being icked out by pussy means no eating pussy, or having to fake enjoying it. Giving head is two parts: pre-orgasm and post (unless it's just for fun.) You can love sucking dick and hate swallowing cum. I think it's kind of whiny to care what she does with your cum after you already get off. Whereas caring that someone is not enjoying eating your pussy the whole time is totally not the same.
Posted by secretagent on June 22, 2012 at 3:31 PM · Report this
aureolaborealis 101
@99: My second paragraph conflated you, erroneously, with the angry unregistered commenter above.

Posted by aureolaborealis on June 22, 2012 at 4:33 PM · Report this
102
@96: "The point Dan has made repeatedly is that eating pussy with any enthusiasm involves swallowing vaginal juices, probably in as much total volume as the average load of semen.
B) in that the majority of the moisture comes at the end when you're giving a guy head and flows steadily when you're give a woman head, you are correct: they are not the same. But if you really hated cum, you would, presumably, have a problem with precum, too"

This is all a huge batch of bullshit. Not all guys precum to any noticeable degree.
Posted by Besides, it's not about taste. It's about consent. on June 22, 2012 at 5:37 PM · Report this
103
@69 and @75

Come is the correct spelling, and cum is the spelling used by idiot cheap porn writers and people who can't spell. I assume it's supposed to make the word seem dirtier or sexier, but it just makes the person spelling it like that come across as stupid and/or sleazy.
Posted by ignatz ratzkywatzky on June 22, 2012 at 9:45 PM · Report this
104
@37 - Why think she swallowed "pretty regularly"? The only indication I can find is that she used a plural - swallowed after blow jobS. That could just mean that she tried a couple of times until she gave up on it.
Posted by boo registering on June 22, 2012 at 10:07 PM · Report this
105
You are so wrong about this Dan. And I say that with a sad face because you are usually right. He swallows her cum and juices whenever he gives her head, unless he uses Saran Wrap. So why shouldn't she return the favor. She said that they have great sex, so I assume that he's giving her head. This is about fairness and love, not control. Does she love him less than her ex?? That's the big question.
Posted by Drfeelrealgood http://https://twitter.com/Drfeelrealgood on June 22, 2012 at 11:04 PM · Report this
106
@104: Well, yes, exactly, the wording _is_ ambiguous. Unfortunately that seems to be the fulcrum upon which the argument turns and on which pressure is applied. It would be to Letter Writer's advantage to be able to say to her boyfriend, "Yes, I swallowed exactly four times, and that was three times more than enough to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt that it makes me feel like throwing up. Now stop bugging me about this." Instead the vague wording makes it possible to think that maybe it was a regular thing with the previous guy, which invites speculation and paranoia (juvenile and douchebaggy though it may be) about why he, the current boyfriend, doesn't rate the same treatment.

Whether it was a regular thing or not, she needs to tell him (assuming she doesn't just DTMFA, like everyone is urging), "Look, it isn't about you, and it isn't about the ex. It's about me. I've developed an aversion to swallowing. It makes me feel like I'm going to throw up. It's that simple. If you force the issue, I swear I will throw up -- right in your face, so you get absolutely clear on just how disgusting it is to me -- and you won't be given the chance to clean yourself off before I kick you out for good. Now, are you going to drop this or not?"
Posted by avast2006 on June 23, 2012 at 12:06 AM · Report this
107
@105: Does it occur to you that she might taste better than he does? In my experiences of eating pussy, vaginal juice has a pretty weak taste- the taste varies quite a lot from girl to girl and depends on where she is in her cycle, but unless she doesn't wash much, it's usually a fairly weak taste since most of vaginal juice is just water. Come, on the other hand, usually has a strong taste. It happens to be a taste that I like most of the time (UNLESS a guy has eaten sourdough bread, don't ask me why that's the case), but it's still a much, much stronger taste. I think pre-cum and vaginal juice have a lot more in common than vaginal juice and come. I think the easiest way to put this is while I expect men to be okay with swallowing vaginal juices, I don't expect them to be okay with swallowing period vaginal juices, which is why I think men are totally excused from oral during her period. If he wants red wings, that's fine, and if a girl wants to drink come, that's fun, but let's equate strong taste with strong taste.
Posted by alguna_rubia on June 23, 2012 at 12:33 AM · Report this
108
@107

Maybe its just my opinion and/or experience, but I have the opposite feeling about come and vaginal juice. Vaginal juice has a sourness to it whereas come (well, I have only tasted my own) is kind of bland, though can occasionally have an ammonia smell, but that's rare in my experience. Now texture is a complete other story.

Posted by pb1230 on June 23, 2012 at 12:54 AM · Report this
109
@103 Come and cum are both considered slang, so there really isn't a "correct" spelling. The correct spelling is semen or ejaculate.
Posted by pb1230 on June 23, 2012 at 1:01 AM · Report this
110
@106

"Look, it isn't about you, and it isn't about the ex. It's about me. I've developed an aversion to swallowing. It makes me feel like I'm going to throw up. It's that simple."

She never indicates the aversion is that severe, it could be, but it might not. If that is the case, she shouldn't and definitely make it clear.

Though for all we know, it could be tolerable to her, but just not enjoyable which is my conclusion IF she did do it for the duration of the relationship.
Posted by pb1230 on June 23, 2012 at 1:09 AM · Report this
111
@94 I understand it's "oral comes standard" I just thought "oral standard" had a nice ring to it. But you didn't actually get to answering my actual question: does coming in her mouth count as part of "oral comes standard?"

Maybe it's off on a bit of a tangent, but after reading some of the other comments/opinions that the sexual act extended beyond just the orgasm and thus would include swallowing. While another comment said she never had her partner come in her mouth when performing oral but off to the side or somewhere else. So my question was if there was a consensus opinion that 'coming in their mouth' is considered part of the oral that "comes standard?"
Posted by tofu oyako on June 23, 2012 at 1:30 AM · Report this
sissoucat 112
DTMFA.

Or follow #26 's advice. No more sex until he's swallowed one of his loads. Of course, that means you'll be dared to taste your vaginal juices too - but don't worry, they are nowhere as icky-tasting.

The best I've ever seen for load disposal : as soon as he's got his senses back, My awesome lover leans towards me, and kisses me passionately and swallows it all, until there's nothing left. It's so considerate and hot that I'd love to blow him all over again right away. And seeing him swallow it without fuss has slowly made it a lot more tasteful to me, and now I usually swallow a bit of it on my own, without pointing it to him, as a bit of togetherness thing.

Posted by sissoucat on June 23, 2012 at 2:34 AM · Report this
113
@105: No. As secretagent pointed out, the equivalency would be to oral sex at all. Swallowing is not the entirety of oral sex performed on a man, it's a few seconds out of what is, hopefully, a long act. If you want to argue exact reciprocity you have to figure out a way to be attracted to your own gender. Though gay couples, to be honest, seem perfectly able to express preferences along the lines of "I like to do this to other people, but don't enjoy it done to me," or vice versa, and actually interact as individuals and not interchangeable parts.

@111: No. Oral comes standard means if you are dating nowadays you can assume your partner will both desire oral performed on them, and be willing, perhaps wildly excited, to perform it on you. It does not refer to any fine details (e.g. swallowing/facials/sneezing comes standard). And so if you have problems with the whole concept of oral in one direction or the other, not with a small optional part of one technique, you should bring it up. Just as you should bring up any important info (intend to remain a virgin til marriage, past sexual trauma, etc) that they should know going into a physical relationship. And that "I'm into you but will never perform oral on you" is an acceptable reason to break up with someone.

It is also, as Dan has said many times, possible that someone will decide that a given price of admission is worth it. There are men who dislike blow jobs. There are men who enjoy them but they're down around number 20 on a list of acts they'd like and if the other 19 are on the table, fine. There are men so in love with a woman who was orally raped that giving up the blow job she can't do without flashing, previously in the top 3, suddenly is easy to imagine because he'd rather have her. The important thing is to be honest about your limits early, not offer any of that "After we got married I'm sure I'd be okay with it" stuff.

"Oral comes standard" addresses what you, and your potential lovers', reasonable expectation might be. If Dan meant "Oral, performed on you exactly the way you like it, to the smallest details, with the frequency you demand, fuck what your partner prefers" he would have phrased it that way.
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Posted by IPJ on June 23, 2012 at 7:29 AM · Report this
114
On the many interpretations of how often with the old lover: She tried it and doesn't like it. Maybe she tried it four times and then stopped. Maybe she tried it and wasn't good at standing up for herself yet and so reluctantly continued when he insisted, but she means to rewrite that in future relationships. (I imagine she would have mentioned it, but hey, we're able to wrest volumes from a minor subclause.) Maybe he told her it wasn't okay to stop, because once you've done something twice it's proof it's not that bad. And now the new boyfriend is making the same argument, and some commenters seem to be on board with "Hey, if you tried it and hate it you need to try it again. If you tried it multiple times and hated it, it's proof it's not that bad and so now you can't say no. If you never tried it, how do you know you won't like it?" It's just back to never being allowed to say no.

She told him she didn't like to swallow. The presence of an old lover for whom she did swallow, at least once, maybe multiple times or the whole time, is understood there. As it is for any "I don't enjoy X. And yes, I've tried, more than once, and I don't enjoy X" refusal, whether or not you are then asked for details of who exactly and how often. How anyone gets from there to "No, I won't swallow for you. I swallowed for James because I wubbed him so so much, but I do not really care for you," is a mystery.

Posted by IPJ on June 23, 2012 at 7:45 AM · Report this
HellboundAlleee 115
OK, so you swallow. Then what is he going to demand of you? "You made a face! You can't make a face! You have to say 'Mm, yummy!' Say MM yummy!" He'll want you to swallow his spooge and he'll demand you like it. Sounds super emotionally healthy, doesn't it?
Posted by HellboundAlleee http://hellboundalleee.blogspot.com on June 23, 2012 at 9:04 AM · Report this
116
It's very possible he knows the specifics about her ex-bf because he asked her about. I dated a jealous and controlling ex who grilled me about every single person I slept with-wanted names and everything. Given how this guy is showing his controlling nature I think it is less likely that she offered the info about her ex unprompted and more likely that he specifically asked her about it.
Posted by woo hoo on June 23, 2012 at 9:45 AM · Report this
117
@112: "Or follow #26 's advice. No more sex until he's swallowed one of his loads. Of course, that means you'll be dared to taste your vaginal juices too"

Emotional children are far more crafty than you give them credit for. He'd do it in a heartbeat, and she'd be worse off with his cajoling than she is now, standing her ground.
Posted by it's not about the taste anyway on June 23, 2012 at 10:18 AM · Report this
addiemonroe 118
@103 I would suggest that the common usage principle makes "cum" as legitimate a spelling as "come." I would further suggest that it might have come into use specifically to differentiate between "I'm coming" (home right now) versus "I'm coming" (all over your face).
Posted by addiemonroe on June 23, 2012 at 11:02 AM · Report this
119
You should lovingly tell him to shut up and cut it out before he screws up the relationship.

You don't swallow because you don't like to. Period. Now that he pulled this crap, don't back down.
Posted by Snowguy on June 23, 2012 at 8:04 PM · Report this
Eva Hopkins 120
Is anyone else thrilled with all the SLLOTD's lately? Yay! I know Dan's busy becoming a SUPAHSTAH, but love to fall in love w/ his advice all over again.

I dislike partners who act like they own you. Freely sharing something from your past, or fielding questions that come from a place of honest curiosity is one thing.
Your past is your past, & all those steps & exes brought you to where you are today - with him. The guy who lives in the past, is a type, that other folks mighta mentioned upthread but that @ 116 reminded me of. Just think about the dynamic in the movie "Chasing Amy" & "Clerks" - insecure guy can't handle his girl's sexual past.

If the act requested is something you've done & are actively repulsed by, it should just be off the table. To keep going on about it isn't the sign of someone who cares about you, but about what control they can have over you.

Its kinda hard to walk a dynamic like this back. I dunno if this is an auto-dump, but, the LW should just stop blowing him if he doesn't cease with his BS, at the very least.
Posted by Eva Hopkins http://www.lunamusestudios.com on June 23, 2012 at 11:10 PM · Report this
sissoucat 121
@117 No, I don't think so. "Emotional children" want you to make efforts for them, not them to make efforts for themselves. They want you to yield to their whim. Many straight men into control are repulsed with eating their own semen, and wouldn't do it for the world.

But you're right ; he may still swallow it. So my complete advice would be to DTMFA or, failing that :

1. Don't ever swallow his semen ever ;
2. As a punishment before you two have sex again, tell him to masturbate in front of you and make him swallow as many of his loads as you've already swallowed if you have, plus one for being an asshole about it ;
3. Then tell him the swallowing issue is closed in your books, and if he ever wants any of his loads swallowed again, he'll be the one doing the swallowing from now on.
Posted by sissoucat on June 24, 2012 at 1:28 AM · Report this
122
@112:
I don't like to keep his spunk in my mouth that long. It's not so much the taste, but the consistency. Therefore, I prefer swallowing over spitting or letting it dribble out.
And we are back to personal preference: it's *her* call to state what she likes and doesn't like.
She told him it's a no-go, he should accept that.
Posted by migrationist on June 24, 2012 at 8:33 AM · Report this
123
I'm with the previous poster who said that the semen is already in the back of your mouth so swallowing it isn't a big deal. Granted, it tastes way way better from a man who eats plenty of fruits and vegetables and doesn't smoke. Isn't that pretty much the case with vaginal juices as well?
Posted by Sarah in Olympia on June 25, 2012 at 12:12 AM · Report this
124
She doesn't like to swallow. But nevertheless he wants to make her do something that she is not comfortable with? Doesn't sound like great sex to me. Sounds like the start of the slippery slope. DTMFA!
Posted by Frantic Monkey on June 25, 2012 at 8:06 AM · Report this
aureolaborealis 125
Just to reiterate: This is ultimately up to the LW, and whatever she wants to do, however we parse the wording of her question.

To everyone comparing flavors: I've only tasted my own cum, and, indirectly, one other guy's. That very small sample fits onto the mild flavor end of the spectrum of pussy I've tasted in my life. For the most part, though, with a healthy woman whose hygiene is decent, once the initial rush of 'external' flavors and smells have passed, the flavors of vaginal juices and of the cum I've tasted were very similar, minus the extra-virgin-olive-oil-in-the-back-of-the-throat property that my cum sometimes has had.
Posted by aureolaborealis on June 25, 2012 at 10:03 AM · Report this
126
spit it into a cup and INSIST that he tries it first. if he won't swallow it, neither should you. try it.
Posted by vegansaladparty on June 25, 2012 at 10:36 AM · Report this
127
@125: That's nice for you. I've tasted some come that is on that end of the spectrum, but most of the come I've tasted (from many men on many occasions) has been salty with a strong taste of its own. Some guys are milder than others, and if yours tastes anything like pussy juice, you are one of those people. Do not assume that because your come is mild that everyone's is. Also, try tasting your come after you've eaten a salami sandwich on sourdough bread. Then you'll know how objectionable come can taste, believe me.

@123: Honestly, it's not the act itself that's the problem. If he'd started a dialogue with her about why exactly she didn't like it when she swallowed before, and discussed with her some steps that would make it less likely to be unpleasant, and asked her nicely if she would just try it once to make sure she didn't like it, that would all be fine and I'd agree with you. This guy thinks he's entitled to the act just because she's done it before with another guy and she hasn't done it with him. That's bullshit, and she needs to set him straight about that.
Posted by alguna_rubia on June 25, 2012 at 4:10 PM · Report this
128
While I do think that a guy can not simultaneously act like his load is gross or demeaning _and_ expect his partner to take it, I do not understand this chorus of voices suggesting that EBNS's guy deserves ultimatums of a sexual nature from swallowing his own to pegging, neither of which is presented anywhere, including in the suggestions themselves, as something one or both of them would enjoy. I understand and even recommend dumping him, but this makes no sense to me, especially if she is trying to continue that relationship.
Posted by Assuming she doesn't decide this was over the DTMFA-line on June 25, 2012 at 4:39 PM · Report this
aureolaborealis 129
@127: What part of
... I've only tasted my own cum, and, indirectly, one other guy's. That very small sample ...
makes you think I'm making a universal statement?

Regarding
"Some guys are milder than others, and if yours tastes anything like pussy juice, you are one of those people."
If you think pussy is universally mild, you haven't had your face in very much of it.
Posted by aureolaborealis on June 25, 2012 at 6:03 PM · Report this
130
@126: "spit it into a cup and INSIST that he tries it first. if he won't swallow it, neither should you. try it."

And when he does? Jesus, you people and your dumb ideas.
Posted by stop giving bad advice on June 25, 2012 at 8:10 PM · Report this
131
@126: "spit it into a cup and INSIST that he tries it first. if he won't swallow it, neither should you. try it."

And when he does? Jesus, you people and your dumb ideas.
Posted by stop giving bad advice on June 25, 2012 at 8:12 PM · Report this
132
I know I am so late on this but I have to ask after reading most of the comments... Am I the only person who has eaten lots of pussy and swallowed lots of semen and can unequivocally state comparing the two is totaly off not the same and in no way close? The smell, taste, texture, volume, thickness, quantity, all of it is entirely different and anyone comparing them has clearly not done enough sampling of both because it's sort of like comparing natto and lime perrier.

Guys like this btw are why a lot of people burn out on giving head, stop, and don't even bother trying anymore. Not worth the effort. If I'm going to suck your dick and make you feel fabulous and show you how much I adore your body and you're going to bitch I don't swallow there are plenty of other guys other there who won't.

I used to have regular anal with an ex. Two exes actually. Because they were both obsessed by it. But truth is I found it uncomfortable and not exciting. I put up with it because I had zero self respect or self esteem and just wanted to avoid fights and confrontation. And because I thought it made me a good sex partner because it was SO important to them. And this is hard to admit, but I also put up with it because I was so desperate for any form of affection from the second/last one (he wouldn't even kiss me. EVER). When I broke up with Mr Anal 2 and I would start to feel sad about it I'd remind myself I NEVER had to have anal again if I did not want to. And I won't. I won't try it with anyone, ever, for any reason. Get another partner. If you want butt sex I am not the girl for you. That is all. So if some guy tried the "well you did it with them" on me I'd think he was a serious asshole. Just because I did it doesn't mean I liked it or enjoyed it. (and yes, agree with everyone who said best to not bring up this kind of unnecessary info to begin with).

Maybe I am old and cranky as I get closer to 40 or maybe I am spoiled rotten by lots of good sex and being married to a man who can't stand anal (he thinks it's gross, and I swear to god the first time I heard him say that at a party my mouth began to water and I never wanted to fuck a man so bad in my life. It is no small reason why I started to get interested in him). But I'm tired of people (usually women) feeling they have to justify, argue, defend, or explain why they don't want to do a certain sex act. Yes, partners have a right to expect one another to work on a mutually satisfying sex life, absolutely. But that doesn't mean you get to throw a tantrum if your partner doesn't want to do one or two specific things, provided they're working on getting you off. And if you only get off one way? Guess what, maybe you should get some therapy, either sexual or mental, and work on that, because it's just as unreasonable to expect your partner to do one thing and only one thing as it is to refuse to do it.

Now maybe swallowing is a BIG DEAL for this dude. And if it is, this is NOT the girl for him. Because it's a BIG DEAL for her to not swallow. So if he neeeeeeeeeeeeds the swallow, he needs to find someone into that and not someone he's getting duty gulps from.
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Posted by wendykh on August 13, 2012 at 4:26 PM · Report this

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