Slog
News & ArtsFriday, August 17, 2012
Crime White Poverty
Posted by Charles Mudede on Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:22 AM
How it went down...
It all started in the Valero parking lot around 5 a.m. Investigators said a gunman opened fire on Deputy Jason Triche, hitting him and his car multiple times. That bullet-riddled vehicle was taken to the Louisiana State Police Crime Lab. Deputies then followed a speeding vehicle to a trailer park."As we were interviewing the two persons, the two subjects, another person exited that trailer with an assault weapon and ambushed, ambushed my two officers," Tregre explained.
Malley said he heard multiple gunshots.
"I couldn't tell you. It was enough to know it was something going on," said Malley.
It was much later in the day when Malley realized that "something" was how two deputies died in the line of duty, just feet from his own trailer. Officials closed off the scene as they searched for any clues.
The situation as it stands...
Lt. Robert Davidson identified the alleged shooters as Kyle Joekel and Brian Smith, The Shreveport Times reports. Also in custody are Terry Smith, who is Brian Smith's father, and Terry Smith's other son, Derrick Smith. The name of the fifth person was not immediately available.
Something on my mind: Again, while visiting rural America (this time in Oregon), I was stunned by the extent and depth of white poverty. Everyone knows and frequently hears about black poverty or Latino poverty, but white poverty seems to have no or little representation. If are not white and middle class, or white and rich, you almost don't exist. No politician says he/she is working for or representing poor whites. It's always the middle class that matters. And when you say "the poor," you mean minorities, not white people. Yet the rural areas I've seen are filled with white people who don't have two pennies to rub together.
3
Charles, perhaps when *you* say "the poor", you mean minorities, not white people.
I've actually never before realized that when some people talk about "the poor" they are excluding the white poor.
I've actually never before realized that when some people talk about "the poor" they are excluding the white poor.
4
Nobody's sticking up for poor whites? Let me introduce you to Sarah Palin. She represents, well, at least socially, well, come to think of it, you're right, she just gets them to vote with the rich whites.
Point taken, Mudede!
Point taken, Mudede!
5
Those are the Republican base and they vote against their own interest because they hate gay people and blacks. So I have only a smidgeon of sympathy.
7
@5,
That, but they are also frequently uneducated or undereducated. And the republicans preach simple-minded platitudes and tell them lies about how they'll all be rich too if they just work a little bit harder...
The poor whites who vote republican against their own self interest are thoroughly manipulated and lied to by the republican leaders. They're aren't ALL bigoted (some yes, but not all) but they are pitiable.
That, but they are also frequently uneducated or undereducated. And the republicans preach simple-minded platitudes and tell them lies about how they'll all be rich too if they just work a little bit harder...
The poor whites who vote republican against their own self interest are thoroughly manipulated and lied to by the republican leaders. They're aren't ALL bigoted (some yes, but not all) but they are pitiable.
8
Mudede: White supremacist.
It would be hilarious if there was a Stranger opposite day and you guys all went full Mirror Universe in all your reporting on local issues. The evils of social justice! The horrors of mass transit! The Satanistic indoctrination of bikers! The society ending doom of gay marriage! Reefer madness!
It would be hilarious if there was a Stranger opposite day and you guys all went full Mirror Universe in all your reporting on local issues. The evils of social justice! The horrors of mass transit! The Satanistic indoctrination of bikers! The society ending doom of gay marriage! Reefer madness!
11
@7 I've heard it (or read it, somewhere) explained as the phenomenon of willingness to "cut off your own nose" to spite them "other" folks. Rather than improve their own condition and vote their own interests, they vote against letting "others" have anything.
It's all about fear, greed, jealousy, rivalry/competition and stupidity.
It's hilarious that RR are now claiming that the Obama election strategy is "divisive" when divisiveness has been the Republicans' main strategy for so long (c.f. "The Southern Strategy").
It's all about fear, greed, jealousy, rivalry/competition and stupidity.
It's hilarious that RR are now claiming that the Obama election strategy is "divisive" when divisiveness has been the Republicans' main strategy for so long (c.f. "The Southern Strategy").
12
Chuckles, are you just figuring out that spending the last 40 years calling white people racists and wallowing in your silly identity politics, blaming whitey all the time, is why the left has does so poorly on election day? I mean, how else can you explain why the center has moved so far to the right?
Of course the fact that college educated white liberals love to call poor whites racists, gun loving loons, religious nuts, fat, stupid and ignorant has nothing to do with how they vote. You come to Slog and ridicule their shops (Walmart), their sports, their culture, their food, their trucks and then wonder why they vote for my interests. Meanwhile you pour empathy on gangbangers and illegals.
So keep it up. The best thing the left has done for my extended family over the past 30 years is convince poor whites that they are not cultured and educated enough to be members of the farmer's market shopping, latte sniffing, white liberal elite.
Of course the fact that college educated white liberals love to call poor whites racists, gun loving loons, religious nuts, fat, stupid and ignorant has nothing to do with how they vote. You come to Slog and ridicule their shops (Walmart), their sports, their culture, their food, their trucks and then wonder why they vote for my interests. Meanwhile you pour empathy on gangbangers and illegals.
So keep it up. The best thing the left has done for my extended family over the past 30 years is convince poor whites that they are not cultured and educated enough to be members of the farmer's market shopping, latte sniffing, white liberal elite.
13
Charles, you could really stand to read about the history of the rural South. There was a politician who said he was working for poor whites. His name was Huey Long. He was into wealth distribution. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huey_Long And more recently, there's George Wallace, who is one of a long line of Alabama governors to consolidate power by setting rural whites and blacks against each other.
Try on Night Comes to the Cumberlands (Harry Caudill), Alabama Getaway (Allen Tullos), Slavery By Another Name (Douglas Blackmon), and Elvis (Bobbie Ann Mason), to start with. The Cotton Kingdom by Frederick Law Olmsted might not be a bad plan, either.
Try on Night Comes to the Cumberlands (Harry Caudill), Alabama Getaway (Allen Tullos), Slavery By Another Name (Douglas Blackmon), and Elvis (Bobbie Ann Mason), to start with. The Cotton Kingdom by Frederick Law Olmsted might not be a bad plan, either.
14
How condescending it is to say that anyone votes against their own will. Anyone, democrat or republican, rich or poor. You don't know these people, you don't know what's in their hearts and minds.
Being poor is not mutually exclusive with being informed. Unless we're taking about voter fraud and buying votes, every voting American's decision is their own, their philosophy, their opinions, and their experiences. No one has the right to discount the integrity of a fellow citizen's vote.
Being poor is not mutually exclusive with being informed. Unless we're taking about voter fraud and buying votes, every voting American's decision is their own, their philosophy, their opinions, and their experiences. No one has the right to discount the integrity of a fellow citizen's vote.
15
@12 the alienation your family feels towards the left is all on them. The could pull themselves up from their bootstraps and see what party is willing to extend unemployment benefits, provide public schools, offer student aid so they can acquire the skills to bring back home and improve their lot.
People move right-ward when things go poorly, it makes prefect sense. You want to go back to when things worked, 'take back America', etc. Other than whining on Slog, are you actively helping your family? They don't have to move to the city, vote dem, occupy or what have you. Hell, you could talk to your local GOP about helping them rather then solely helping the rich. You seem determined enough, just do it already, you're bitching isn't doing shit.
Lastly, have you been to a farmer's market? If you really cared about the rural poor, you'd be pretty stoked that poor farmers are making such a good margin on their product. Again, you seem to only care about complaining. Free speech and all. But blaming 'elites' is as silly as Mudede blaming 'whitey'.
People move right-ward when things go poorly, it makes prefect sense. You want to go back to when things worked, 'take back America', etc. Other than whining on Slog, are you actively helping your family? They don't have to move to the city, vote dem, occupy or what have you. Hell, you could talk to your local GOP about helping them rather then solely helping the rich. You seem determined enough, just do it already, you're bitching isn't doing shit.
Lastly, have you been to a farmer's market? If you really cared about the rural poor, you'd be pretty stoked that poor farmers are making such a good margin on their product. Again, you seem to only care about complaining. Free speech and all. But blaming 'elites' is as silly as Mudede blaming 'whitey'.
16
American capitalism and the Republican party depend on preventing an alliance of the white poor and the minority poor. If these groups every perceive their common interests, watch out.
17
@14 but in our current two party system, your ideals get compromised by your economic needs. Take you for example. So far since you've been posting, you only bring up Romney's economic ideas (he's not Obama), yet you are advocating for a party who is actively against gays. Do you ever have hopes of being treated as an equal in this country?
19
I think a lot of you are mixing up "poor" and "working class." Working class Americans aren't necessarily poor.
The REAL poor don't vote. @ 5, 7, 10 - you've got that completely ass-backwards. They're as fucked over as poor minorities, and even more invisible because they're much more likely to be in rural areas, away from the main highway. If they're in the cities, they're in isolated little neighborhoods away from the main drags and hip parts of town. They are much more likely to be neighbors with minorities than white liberals.
There's a difference, folks.
The REAL poor don't vote. @ 5, 7, 10 - you've got that completely ass-backwards. They're as fucked over as poor minorities, and even more invisible because they're much more likely to be in rural areas, away from the main highway. If they're in the cities, they're in isolated little neighborhoods away from the main drags and hip parts of town. They are much more likely to be neighbors with minorities than white liberals.
There's a difference, folks.
20
@15 Alienated from the left? Oh dear no, my grandfather was still complaining about Roosevelt and his 80% tax rate until he died at age 104. Luckily, his wealth was passed on after Reagan slashed inheritance taxes. I can't stand the poor and their tastes, habits and culture and I vote for my interests, not theirs.
"If you really cared about the rural poor, you'd be pretty stoked that poor farmers are making such a good margin on their product. "
Yes, $5 tomatoes, $4 organic ice cream bars and $5 wood fired pizza slices. I go to farmer's markets every weekend to get away from poor people. The farmers? Main upper middle class, college educate fauxhemians, back to the country types.Â
"If you really cared about the rural poor, you'd be pretty stoked that poor farmers are making such a good margin on their product. "
Yes, $5 tomatoes, $4 organic ice cream bars and $5 wood fired pizza slices. I go to farmer's markets every weekend to get away from poor people. The farmers? Main upper middle class, college educate fauxhemians, back to the country types.Â
21
1. yes, charles is right, ti's very odd we tend to not think about talk about care about white poverty.
2. this is obviously the result of the right winger one percenter's plan via rush limbaugh etc. THEY manipulate the white poor into both racism, xenophobia, fear of gummint, stimulating their amygdalias into thinking non earners are getting a free lunch, etc., all to distract everyone from the fact we have bailout crony capitalism with the one percenters getting a free lunch. oh and also a new basketball arena in seattle.
3. the biggest aide to teh right wingers is the democratic party's and liberal's and urban hipster's abandonment and neglect of the white working class, boosted by their disdain for it, their contempt, and the enjoyment hipsters nad liberals feel in condemning other people and feeling morally superior when their own interest which THEY don't follow would lie in uniting with understanding embracing allying with white working class.
4. butthis would mean (a) not supporting crap like high tolls on 520, (b) not supporting 100% excise tax crap like the vehicle license fee so many liberals in seattle desired (c) not giving banksters free rein to shackle us with bailout capitalism, that is, just doing bailouts without prosecuting banks or reeneacting glass steagal sucking up to high dolalr donaors and (d) not supporting one percenter welfare schemes like the motherfucking arena one percenter hansen wants, backed by one percenter jeannie kohl welles and wanna be one percenter bob ferguson and other so called liberals. and oh by the way, this also means (e) not supoprting crap like one percent fo rthearts, opera subsidies, symphony etc. at least not when we're cutting cops, teachers, basic health and can't fill potholes or build a new magnolia bridge or can't even build decent transit system for actual real people to use to actually get around instead painting little bike symbols on streets and clogging them up with faux transit trolleys and doing other crap that isn't really worth a damn but just looks and feels good to the hipsters.
iow, we must expect the right and the one percenter class to be evil and manipulate poor whites. but when they do, instead of lecturing the poor whites how dumb they are it's on us to unmanipulate them, to get out there with real solutions like transit, jobs, single payer health care prosecuting fucking banksters and ending fucking wasteful defense spending and stuff like that to give them a class politics that IS in their interest. too often what the democrats propose isn't in the interest of working class people AT ALL that's why we have endless additional regressive taxes in seattle and that's why tim eyman has such success. it's liberals fault for turning into faux liberals, in short.
More...
2. this is obviously the result of the right winger one percenter's plan via rush limbaugh etc. THEY manipulate the white poor into both racism, xenophobia, fear of gummint, stimulating their amygdalias into thinking non earners are getting a free lunch, etc., all to distract everyone from the fact we have bailout crony capitalism with the one percenters getting a free lunch. oh and also a new basketball arena in seattle.
3. the biggest aide to teh right wingers is the democratic party's and liberal's and urban hipster's abandonment and neglect of the white working class, boosted by their disdain for it, their contempt, and the enjoyment hipsters nad liberals feel in condemning other people and feeling morally superior when their own interest which THEY don't follow would lie in uniting with understanding embracing allying with white working class.
4. butthis would mean (a) not supporting crap like high tolls on 520, (b) not supporting 100% excise tax crap like the vehicle license fee so many liberals in seattle desired (c) not giving banksters free rein to shackle us with bailout capitalism, that is, just doing bailouts without prosecuting banks or reeneacting glass steagal sucking up to high dolalr donaors and (d) not supporting one percenter welfare schemes like the motherfucking arena one percenter hansen wants, backed by one percenter jeannie kohl welles and wanna be one percenter bob ferguson and other so called liberals. and oh by the way, this also means (e) not supoprting crap like one percent fo rthearts, opera subsidies, symphony etc. at least not when we're cutting cops, teachers, basic health and can't fill potholes or build a new magnolia bridge or can't even build decent transit system for actual real people to use to actually get around instead painting little bike symbols on streets and clogging them up with faux transit trolleys and doing other crap that isn't really worth a damn but just looks and feels good to the hipsters.
iow, we must expect the right and the one percenter class to be evil and manipulate poor whites. but when they do, instead of lecturing the poor whites how dumb they are it's on us to unmanipulate them, to get out there with real solutions like transit, jobs, single payer health care prosecuting fucking banksters and ending fucking wasteful defense spending and stuff like that to give them a class politics that IS in their interest. too often what the democrats propose isn't in the interest of working class people AT ALL that's why we have endless additional regressive taxes in seattle and that's why tim eyman has such success. it's liberals fault for turning into faux liberals, in short.
22
@ 14, there is a problem in this country with low information voters. They often are the working class whites that many commenters are thinking of. They're more likely to be less educated, less critical in their thinking, more likely to be manipulated by exaggerated social issues like marriage equality or immigration, and less likely to understand why things like tax cuts for the wealthy increase their own burden. If they vote Republican, most of the time they don't understand that they're voting for policies designed to keep them from getting ahead.
As @ 18 says, they're not "voting against their will" (where the hell did you get that anyway?), they're voting against their interests. And it's a truthful statement regardless of how it makes anyone feel.
As @ 18 says, they're not "voting against their will" (where the hell did you get that anyway?), they're voting against their interests. And it's a truthful statement regardless of how it makes anyone feel.
23
Charles, you need to watch more reality TV. It's nothing but poor white trash from one end to the other. Who do you think is portrayed in "Hillbilly Hand Fishing" or "Swamp People" or "Toddlers in Tiaras"?
I would say that the most invisible people in America are Hispanic poor people, especially since they are invisibly right among us, mowing our lawns and prepping our vegetables, but we never see them. Farm laborers in particular; they live in camps set aside for them that white people never ever enter.
I would say that the most invisible people in America are Hispanic poor people, especially since they are invisibly right among us, mowing our lawns and prepping our vegetables, but we never see them. Farm laborers in particular; they live in camps set aside for them that white people never ever enter.
24
@20 well if your grandpa was rich enough to get taxed at that rate he was still richer than my grandpa and most others, that's post-taxation.So, no sympathy there. Nice touch on his old age, sounds like he had a great life.
All those farmers you talk to at the farmers market struggle each month to break even. You're a fucking retard if you think they're somehow comfortably middle class. They may enjoy their work, the land is tough but fulfilling.
Nice attempt at trolling but you're talking to a guy who works directly with farmers throughout the state. The only ones I would describe as middle class or above have no time for farmers markets as they grow huge amounts of commodity crops.
All those farmers you talk to at the farmers market struggle each month to break even. You're a fucking retard if you think they're somehow comfortably middle class. They may enjoy their work, the land is tough but fulfilling.
Nice attempt at trolling but you're talking to a guy who works directly with farmers throughout the state. The only ones I would describe as middle class or above have no time for farmers markets as they grow huge amounts of commodity crops.
25
@22: The trouble with your argument is that you're mapping stereotypes to your own political dispositions. Granted, a percentage of what you say is true but it is impossible to quantify.
Re: 'against their own *will*' - my error. I thought I read it @7. Anyway, it is indeed condescending to say that anyone votes against their own self interest.
Re: 'against their own *will*' - my error. I thought I read it @7. Anyway, it is indeed condescending to say that anyone votes against their own self interest.
26
"A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.
The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid,
And the marshals and cops get the same,
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool.
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game."
"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.
The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid,
And the marshals and cops get the same,
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool.
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game."
27
@25 It may be condescending, but so is a lot of the lies coming out from the Romney campaign. Remember when he was speaking in front of a bunch of coal miners in Ohio, telling them that Obama has reduced their output? It's funny becuase, coal mining is at a 15 year high, which means Bush was holding them back and Obama has been improving the coal industry through tighter regulation.
You still didn't answer my question from earlier though. You've really channeled that "repeat a talking point, but avoid any tough question"
You still didn't answer my question from earlier though. You've really channeled that "repeat a talking point, but avoid any tough question"
28
@ 25, if you can plausibly explain how a person (especially one who is loudly against taxes) can vote for people whose policies increase their tax burden as being in their interest, I'll concede the point. If you can't, then your statement that it's condescending is refuted.
30
Fnarf, while it's true that Team Latino does work among us almost as invisible, I know from first-hand experience that they do it on purpose. They do not want to be incorporated into our European lifestyle. They send money back to their families in Mexico, etc and often spend the 3 months of winter (well earned) in warmer climes. The Lantino/Catholic heritage is well engrained, and does not waver. They are working the system for low wages, but working the system nonetheless. They are invisible on purpose.
32
@25,
They say they are against raising taxes, then they vote for someone who raises their taxes.
They say they are against outsourcing jobs, then they vote for someone who outsources their job.
They say they are against raising government debt, then they vote for someone who raises the government debt.
That is voting against their own stated self-interest. They said those things about themselves... it wasn't said about them, it wasn't falsely attributed to them.
How is that condescending?
They say they are against raising taxes, then they vote for someone who raises their taxes.
They say they are against outsourcing jobs, then they vote for someone who outsources their job.
They say they are against raising government debt, then they vote for someone who raises the government debt.
That is voting against their own stated self-interest. They said those things about themselves... it wasn't said about them, it wasn't falsely attributed to them.
How is that condescending?
34
@28: You're missing my point. You're still interjecting your own opinion, your own sources, whether they be true or not. You forget that they have their opinions, their sources, whether they be true or not.
@27: What was your earlier question? Oh yes, something along the lines of elements of the GOP are actively against gays. Yes, that is true. And our country is in a very deep fiscal crisis with diminished influence in world affairs and a president who can't even use his bully pulpit to call out Assad on his atrocities. So what's your point?
@27: What was your earlier question? Oh yes, something along the lines of elements of the GOP are actively against gays. Yes, that is true. And our country is in a very deep fiscal crisis with diminished influence in world affairs and a president who can't even use his bully pulpit to call out Assad on his atrocities. So what's your point?
35
@30, what the fuckety fuck? What slime hole did YOU pop out of?
Catholic heritage? You mean like my four Irish great-grandparents? You might want to choose your bugaboos more carefully, lest you sound like a Klan member. Opes! Too late!
The millions of Mexican-Americans proudly bustling away in America refute you utterly. Have a look at who scored the winning goal for the USA in the friendly at Azteca Stadium the other day, the first time the USA has ever won there.
Catholic heritage? You mean like my four Irish great-grandparents? You might want to choose your bugaboos more carefully, lest you sound like a Klan member. Opes! Too late!
The millions of Mexican-Americans proudly bustling away in America refute you utterly. Have a look at who scored the winning goal for the USA in the friendly at Azteca Stadium the other day, the first time the USA has ever won there.
36
As a white man, I'm highly critical of able-bodied white men who ask me for spare change. I don't consider the problem of white poverty. At least until now. I'll do more to open my mind in the future.
37
"@ 14, there is a problem in this country with low information voters. They often are the working class whites"
Because poor blacks and Latinos are such fountains of wisdom.
@26 wiggle wiggle
Because poor blacks and Latinos are such fountains of wisdom.
@26 wiggle wiggle
38
@34 lol what? If you think "whether [their sources] be true or not" is beside the point, you're the one who has missed it.
And Charles, if you're just figuring out this whole "poor white people" thing now you really need to get out of the city more. You probably don't even need to cross state lines. Hell, you probably don't even need to leave the city.
And Charles, if you're just figuring out this whole "poor white people" thing now you really need to get out of the city more. You probably don't even need to cross state lines. Hell, you probably don't even need to leave the city.
39
@32: It's condescending because you think you are smarter than the average American. It's condescending to rank the intelligence of other voters who are antithetical to your views rather than just saying you disagree with them; regardless of the facts, especially taxes - given the chore of weeding the misconceptions from the facts. Even the CBO fails at times; garbage in = garbage out.
40
@35 because fnarf knows all about the working class and the coloreds. After all he lives in that center of multiculturalism Phinney Ridge.
41
@34 do you know every country that had used austerity to balance their budget have seen their economy go down, right? Look at the countries that have rebounded from the recession. They all pumped up government spending.
As far as Syria goes. What do you want Obama to do? Invade? He's doing whatever he can considering the geopolitical tightrope that is the middle east. He did call out Assad, he's told him to step down when the protests began. None of us are happy that they're going through a civil war, but it'd be a lot worse to jump in a cause a regional war. That'd really help.
As far as Syria goes. What do you want Obama to do? Invade? He's doing whatever he can considering the geopolitical tightrope that is the middle east. He did call out Assad, he's told him to step down when the protests began. None of us are happy that they're going through a civil war, but it'd be a lot worse to jump in a cause a regional war. That'd really help.
42
14, You certainly have a lot of confidence that 100% of the thoughts in your head are in fact your own. There is considerable evidence that many things that one "thinks" are actually put there by outside influences... friends, media, co-workers, etc. Not necessarily maliciously, by any means; but we are MUCH more malleable and much less independent than we generally consider ourselves to be.
Try reading "The Manipulated Mind" by Denise Winn. Very educational. And actually a very practical book in these hyper-dogmatic times.
Try reading "The Manipulated Mind" by Denise Winn. Very educational. And actually a very practical book in these hyper-dogmatic times.
43
@34
Still defending racists and bigots I see.
"You're still interjecting your own opinion, your own sources, whether they be true or not."
No. Just look at the voting record for those areas.
"You forget that they have their opinions, their sources, whether they be true or not."
No. They have their opinions and they vote those opinions.
Then it is easy to look at how those opinions nee votes result in laws and what effect those laws have upon those people.
But since that does not fit your defense of racists and bigots you'll be claiming that it doesn't work that way, won't you?
Still defending racists and bigots I see.
"You're still interjecting your own opinion, your own sources, whether they be true or not."
No. Just look at the voting record for those areas.
"You forget that they have their opinions, their sources, whether they be true or not."
No. They have their opinions and they vote those opinions.
Then it is easy to look at how those opinions nee votes result in laws and what effect those laws have upon those people.
But since that does not fit your defense of racists and bigots you'll be claiming that it doesn't work that way, won't you?
44
@35 what does sugartit know? So far, you've been pretty comically off base on the economics of small scale farms.
45
@34 If the U.S. is "diminished" any it's because the last Republican administration was the most destructive force in American history and not because of this president you dickheaded moron.
46
@39,
Condescention is when someone acts superior to others or judges them.
If someone is undereducated and votes in favor of something they have publicly stated they are opposed to, then my saying they are undereducated and voting against their own interests isn't condescending, it's just an observation. I'm not judging them. They ARE being lied to. They ARE voting against their interest. They ARE uneducated/undereducated.
Condescention is when someone acts superior to others or judges them.
If someone is undereducated and votes in favor of something they have publicly stated they are opposed to, then my saying they are undereducated and voting against their own interests isn't condescending, it's just an observation. I'm not judging them. They ARE being lied to. They ARE voting against their interest. They ARE uneducated/undereducated.
48
Job creators just need more tax breaks and fewer regulations to make Charles' newly discovered rural poor white people either less poor or less white.
51
@44 Tell me again how farmers markets are for the po' to come buy $5 tomatoes, artisan goat cheese and $25/lb Vashon lamb again? I need a good laugh.
52
@51 I didn't say the people buying it are poor. I'm saying it's a great way for the farmer to make a margin that they normally wouldn't. I stated that earlier. Which helps keep the farm going, which helps the farmer avoid poverty.
Your reading comprehension can't be that bad. Why would a poor person spending money make them richer, they need to make money. If you still can't grasp that, good luck.
Your reading comprehension can't be that bad. Why would a poor person spending money make them richer, they need to make money. If you still can't grasp that, good luck.
53
@53 I have no problem when the help are poor! Not ghetto or trailer trash poor of course, but crunchy granola Utne Reader reading poor. You know, poor by choice educated white people.
Btw reading comprehension would mean knowing I wasn't talking people who work at farmers marker, I was talking about customers; Whole Foods liberals.
Btw reading comprehension would mean knowing I wasn't talking people who work at farmers marker, I was talking about customers; Whole Foods liberals.
54
@53 look at your comment regarding "the po' to come buy". How else is someone supposed to read that? If you were talking about rich people shopping at farmers markets, why didn't you just say that?
Anyhow, I really think you should read up on who works at farms. You'd be surprised. And you'd avoid looking like Mudede with unfounded blanket statements which apparently piss you off.
Anyhow, I really think you should read up on who works at farms. You'd be surprised. And you'd avoid looking like Mudede with unfounded blanket statements which apparently piss you off.
55
There's a new book "Coming Apart: the State of White America" by Charles Murray that discusses the title of Charles' posting, White Poverty. I shall read it.
58
@57 so you're saying rather than defend a point you're just joking? Lesson learned, sugartit doesn't know what they're talking about, can't argue their point and lastly has to rely on the "that's just a joke" defense. Bummer.
59
@42: Of course that's true, but it doesn't negate what I said. We are influenced, but we still have to make decisions on what we are influenced by.
@43: Sorry, I'm not going to go around the back of the barn with you again and pull our panties down to play pissing games. I acquiesced to doing it once and it resulted in the longest, most meaningless, tit-for-tat, and intellectually bankrupt thread Slog has ever known, and I'll never get caught in that situation again.
However, if your erroneous hostility as exemplified in your last paragraph starts to subside - I'll consider answering your questions.
@43: Sorry, I'm not going to go around the back of the barn with you again and pull our panties down to play pissing games. I acquiesced to doing it once and it resulted in the longest, most meaningless, tit-for-tat, and intellectually bankrupt thread Slog has ever known, and I'll never get caught in that situation again.
However, if your erroneous hostility as exemplified in your last paragraph starts to subside - I'll consider answering your questions.
61
Uhhhh no, sarcasm is not the same as joking. A little bit of education might help you at this point.
62
"Sarcasm is "a sharp, bitter, or cutting expression or remark; a bitter jibe or taunt", usually conveyed through irony or understatement. Most authorities distinguish sarcasm from irony; however, others argue that sarcasm may or often does involve irony or employs ambivalence. Sarcasm may be appropriate or inappropriate, though this is generally a function of one's point of view."
The key words for you CbytheSea are "irony or understatement".
So when I say:
"Tell me again how farmers markets are for the po' to come buy $5 tomatoes, artisan goat cheese and $25/lb Vashon lamb again? I need a good laugh."
…that is sarcasm. I even added "I need a good laugh." to help you along. Apparently you needed more help.
The key words for you CbytheSea are "irony or understatement".
So when I say:
"Tell me again how farmers markets are for the po' to come buy $5 tomatoes, artisan goat cheese and $25/lb Vashon lamb again? I need a good laugh."
…that is sarcasm. I even added "I need a good laugh." to help you along. Apparently you needed more help.
63
@59 I always try to be civil towards you but I rarely get replies. As far as the economy goes, what do you think is more important tackling the deficit or getting the economy going again?
I know, both are tied together in such a tight way we probably shouldn't treat them as separate concepts. But as I mentioned before the countries in the EU who decided to shrink their budgets saw no gains, rather it got worse.
The economy is slowly getting better, job gains in the private sector are encouraging but the shrinking public sector is holding back the recovery.
I know, both are tied together in such a tight way we probably shouldn't treat them as separate concepts. But as I mentioned before the countries in the EU who decided to shrink their budgets saw no gains, rather it got worse.
The economy is slowly getting better, job gains in the private sector are encouraging but the shrinking public sector is holding back the recovery.
64
@62 well, you outsmarted me with your non-point. Kudos! Due to the difficulty of detecting tone on a text based communication with no context provided by the author is it safe to say everything you post is sarcastic?
65
@46: I see what you're saying, but you're still placing value judgments. You are not aware of all the pros and cons and the evaluation process those 'uneducated' voters are formulating they decide how to cast their vote.
66
Charles, I can think of two good reasons. First, Americans like to think of themselves as middle class, even if they're living paycheck to paycheck. Second, the middle and upper classes dislike the working class and despise the poor. They despise the poor regardless of color, but they realize that racism is unfashionable, so they occasionally pay lip service to social justice. They don't mean it, though.
67
@63: Government should be efficient. Therefore the public sector should grow and contract accordingly.
68
@67 I agree that government should be more efficient, trust me, ive been waiting on the city for permits that used to take a few days to clear, now take weeks due to staff shortages on their end. Dismantling it doesn't lead to those efficiencies. Which for new businesses makes it even harder to open due to the understaffed permitting departments.
69
@59
"Sorry, ... again."
Wow! That's an awful lot of typing there just to say that you're not going to answer a direct question.
Like I said:
They have their opinions and they vote those opinions.
Then it is easy to look at how those opinions nee votes result in laws and what effect those laws have upon those people.
But since that does not fit your defense of racists and bigots you'll be claiming that it doesn't work that way, won't you?
You're back to defending racists and bigots. Because that is the kind of life you have.
"Sorry, ... again."
Wow! That's an awful lot of typing there just to say that you're not going to answer a direct question.
Like I said:
They have their opinions and they vote those opinions.
Then it is easy to look at how those opinions nee votes result in laws and what effect those laws have upon those people.
But since that does not fit your defense of racists and bigots you'll be claiming that it doesn't work that way, won't you?
You're back to defending racists and bigots. Because that is the kind of life you have.
71
Nice to see someone recognizing that not all "whites" are well to do or well represented.
The lesson here is that no group is monolithic.
The lesson here is that no group is monolithic.
73
@72
"It is intellectually bankrupt to make an assumption without having read the source."
Like I said:
They have their opinions and they vote those opinions.
Then it is easy to look at how those opinions nee votes result in laws and what effect those laws have upon those people.
You can disagree with that but that shows that you're an idiot troll who comes here to defend racists and bigots.
Now, if you were a bit smarter you'd be able to make a case that:
a. It is in their economic self interest to remain poor and uneducated (LOL, you're funny).
b. or that they're sacrificing their chance at education and economic advantages in order to make a social gain. But those aren't linked. They can work the social angle and still improve their education.
So your point is that you have no point you just want to argue and defend racists because that is all you have in your life.
"It is intellectually bankrupt to make an assumption without having read the source."
Like I said:
They have their opinions and they vote those opinions.
Then it is easy to look at how those opinions nee votes result in laws and what effect those laws have upon those people.
You can disagree with that but that shows that you're an idiot troll who comes here to defend racists and bigots.
Now, if you were a bit smarter you'd be able to make a case that:
a. It is in their economic self interest to remain poor and uneducated (LOL, you're funny).
b. or that they're sacrificing their chance at education and economic advantages in order to make a social gain. But those aren't linked. They can work the social angle and still improve their education.
So your point is that you have no point you just want to argue and defend racists because that is all you have in your life.
75
'white dude for romney'..well.. that makes some sense, 'poor dude for romney' a lot less so, 'gay dude for romney'...*ahem*...
76
Here's another piece dealing with poverty (w/o qualifications) and the Obama Administration:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/magazi…
I'm not impressed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/magazi…
I'm not impressed.
77
If someone says "poor whites," the assumption is "at the expense of poor minorities" and that the speaker is a white supremacist. People talk about "the working class," which can be construed to be cross-racial.
78
But the "white poor" can move up to becoming the "white middle class" aka the people Romneybot says he cares about, and then moving up to becoming the "white rich" aka the people who will get their taxes lowered or eliminated if Romneybot wins.
That's why the "white poor" vote Repub if they vote at all. There is always a possibility for them to move up in the ecomomic structure -- or so they are led to believe. Remember Joe the Plumber.
That's why the "white poor" vote Repub if they vote at all. There is always a possibility for them to move up in the ecomomic structure -- or so they are led to believe. Remember Joe the Plumber.
79
@78: Patricia's comment is from a typical modern liberal, who probably professes to celebrate diversity and other views, but is actually shocked and offended to find out that there are actually other views that she comes up with contorted generalizations about how other people vote.
80
@78 People often do not mind being exploited economically by people who are the same color they are. Hence, working class white Americans vote for tax cuts for Wall Street banksters.
81
I should elaborate.
Patricia in @78 says that the white poor vote Republican because:
"There is always a possibility for them to move up in the ecomomic structure -- or so they are led to believe. "
Well, actually Patricia, there is indeed a way to move up the economic structure. And they found out how to do it all by themselves. Through better education and jobs of course. Now how to achieve that is another thread, but suffice it to say that those poor whites might choose a different political party to achieve those objectives than the political party that has your blessing. That shouldn't be so troubling to liberals because all they have to do is make a better case for the poor whites to choose their side.
Patricia in @78 says that the white poor vote Republican because:
"There is always a possibility for them to move up in the ecomomic structure -- or so they are led to believe. "
Well, actually Patricia, there is indeed a way to move up the economic structure. And they found out how to do it all by themselves. Through better education and jobs of course. Now how to achieve that is another thread, but suffice it to say that those poor whites might choose a different political party to achieve those objectives than the political party that has your blessing. That shouldn't be so troubling to liberals because all they have to do is make a better case for the poor whites to choose their side.
82
@81: Better education and jobs, eh?
Which party advocates cutting education funding? Which party has not attempted to pass a single jobs bill, despite having voted 33 times to make a pointless political statement on Obamacare?
Your reasoning doesn't match the facts.
Which party advocates cutting education funding? Which party has not attempted to pass a single jobs bill, despite having voted 33 times to make a pointless political statement on Obamacare?
Your reasoning doesn't match the facts.
83
Poor whites vote Republican because they see firsthand the "benefits" of "diversity". And the Democrats have been anti-white for 50 years.
Something you'd know if you stepped out of your lily white enclave, smug lib fucks.
Something you'd know if you stepped out of your lily white enclave, smug lib fucks.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
All You Motherfuckers Complaining That aPodments Are Too Small at 200 Square Feet by Dominic Holden
-
SL Letter of the Day: Did You Think I Was Going To Tell You Not To Come Out? (PLUS: Help Free Kate!) by Dan Savage
-
Rightwing Anti-Gay French Activist Commits Suicide at Notre Dame Cathedral by Dan Savage
-
It's Spring! Who's Ready for Street Harassment? by Cienna Madrid
-
Spoiled Rotten: Star Trek Into Darkness by Paul Constant
-
America's Epidemic of Toddler-on-Toddler Gun Violence Continues by Goldy
-
Slog Overnight by Dan Savage
-
Saint Genet Re-Creates "Shoot" by Brendan Kiley
-
Dutch Artist Turns Dead Cat into Remote-Controlled Helicopter by Bethany Jean Clement
-
New Gun Enthusiast... by Dan Savage
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (83) RSS